--- Log opened Wed Jan 20 00:00:42 2016
00:16 < _NSAKEY> https://nashville.craigslist.org/sys/5399320733.html
00:16 < PigBot> Title: UNIX stuff for sale (at nashville.craigslist.org) http://tinyurl.com/h4ewoj7
00:55 <@Dagmar> If that's what I think it is, it's a SHITTON of printed manuals
00:55 <@Dagmar> THat shit used to get rolled around on a goddamn cart
00:55 <@Dagmar> LIke three feet wide of three-ring binders on a pulpit mount
00:58 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: Some guy on ebay once had a few dozen early 80s unix manuals on ebay for about $200. Now there's people selling single manuals from collections like that guy had for $300 apiece.
00:58 < _NSAKEY> And yeah, I don't doubt that.
00:59 < _NSAKEY> The computers are also interesting. They're so rare that nobody's bothered to put pictures of them on the internet.
01:23 <@Dagmar> LastChild: Also, I don't recall seeing any particularly interesting movies starring black people this year
01:23 <@Dagmar> Might have quite a BIT to do with the Oscars issue
01:34 < LastChild> Dagmar: yeah someone on TV mentioned how 70 year old white men would never nominate 'Straight Outta Compton'  I nearly fell out of my seat laughing over the thought of that movie being Oscar-worthy.
01:35 < LastChild> Concussion was good, but a niche audience
01:37 <@Dagmar> SOC is definitely not Oscar material
01:38 <@Dagmar> If they even think that for a second they need to take their heads out of their shallow little asses
01:45 <@Dagmar> I like that it's no longer so cold out I feel like if I drop my lighter I'll break the fire
01:46 < LastChild> any precip? I can't tell from my POV
01:48 <@Dagmar> Not yet.  It's less than an hour before starting
01:52 < LastChild> Hoping that IF I make it home in the morning that I get snowbound for at least a day.  Need a little FO4 time.
02:00 <@Dagmar> Ah you will.  This looks like JUST snow so far, so... with everything brined it should eb perfectly fine
02:03 < LastChild> Well shit, I realy wanted to play hooky
02:26 <@Dagmar> There was some *slight* precipitation here a few minutes ago.  Sounded like small amounts of ice pellets.
02:32 < LastChild> I'm going to take a brief walk and see what's happening over here
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02:55 < LastChild> Zilch
02:58 <@Dagmar> *sigh*&
02:58 <@Dagmar> desk is fully assembled.  UPSes are plugged in and in place.  VM host is in place.
02:58 <@Dagmar> NO FUCKING IDEA which box all my cables and peripherals are in
02:58 <@Dagmar> It's going to be a long fuckin day tomorrow
03:00 < LastChild> I'm glad you brought that up, I need to make labels.  Re-arranging the entertainment center.
03:13 <@Dagmar> I'm acutally going to have to make sure that when I come across the cat5e spool, the crimping tool, and then proper ends, that I hang onto them
03:13 <@Dagmar> I could use this 10ft cable I have and run it from the rack to the desk along the floor, OR I can get fancy and run it along the curtain rods up above so no one can trip over it
03:14 <@Dagmar> ...which will need a much longer cable.
03:23 < LastChild> Yeah when the weather gets back to tolerable, The Pig and I are gonna run cable and put keystones in all the bedrooms at my house.
03:45 < aestetix> vagina
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08:34 <@Dagmar>  I have to say, I'm just not very impressed with this "Heavy Snow"
08:35 <@Evilpig> I was annoyed with it
08:35 <@Evilpig> but it was enough slush and ice to push me from the truck back into the house
08:35 <@Dagmar> heh
08:42 <@Dolemite> Apparently we got more than Middle TN did
08:42 <@Dolemite> It's not a heavy snow, but we did at least get enough to cover everything
08:42 <@Dagmar> Well, someone left the snow dome on.  I had to go turn it off.
08:43 <@Dolemite> According to radar, there's some more "heavy snow" heading our way and currently on the plateau
08:43  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
08:44 <@Dagmar> It's just getting started for East TN
08:44 <@Dagmar> Thigns are just about _done_ for the TN valley and Nashville
08:45 <@Dolemite> Originally it was supposed to be sleet turning to snow, but the temperature is about 6 F less than they thought, so it all stayed as snow and now the high for today will be 31.
08:54 <@Dagmar> https://goo.gl/photos/tmPtyDaB9Tdagoqv8
08:54 < PigBot> Dagmar: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
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09:06 <@Dagmar> Finally... last bullet point researched
09:06 <@Dagmar> NOw the next goddamn agent that tries to tell me low signal levels can corrupt the TFTP transfer can be told to shut their stupid mouths
09:07 <@Dagmar> TFTP does handle packet loss appropriately by requesting resends
09:13 -!- Mirage_ is now known as Mirage
09:39 <@CRasH180> good for you
09:39 <@CRasH180> Took you damn near forever to get where you are
09:39 <@CRasH180> Not your fault of course
09:39 <@Dagmar> ?
09:40 <@CRasH180> Talking about all of the issues with comcast
09:40 <@Dagmar> Oh I intend to keep fucking going on their asses
09:40 <@Dagmar> I'm going to MAKE those fuckwits answer me
09:40 <@Dagmar> I am beyond goddamn furious and I deserve an answer from someone in fucking management at this point
09:41 <@Dagmar> ...because FUCK these guys for having so many of their reps just jerk me around and MAKE SHIT UP.
09:45 <@Dagmar> Being that in the past I've had their fucking social media pollyanna's try and jump in when I've simply been bitching about a minor fuck up, I can only assume that they're literally *hiding* from me now
09:46 <@Dagmar> ...and that's fine because I'm completely willing to make a huge amount of noise practically hunting them across the internet.
09:46 -!- frsilent_ is now known as frsilent
09:46 <@CRasH180> go get 'em
09:47 <@CRasH180> I am with Bright House cable and there is no limit to the amount of bandwidth I use
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09:48 < Synx_hm> anybody using owncloud
09:48 < Synx_hm> im interested
09:49 < Synx_hm> ive been on full docker kick past week or so and deploying some more services might as well give owncloud a try if its got good reviews here
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10:00 <@sasquatc3> sweet, free upgrade to an xbox elite controller, convinced my boss to let me swap out my normal one for the one from the elite edition we got in the office for testing
10:01 <@Evilpig> working from home is difficult with cats.
10:01 <@Dagmar> Yep
10:02 <@Dagmar> They can be very insistent about it when it's petting time
10:02 <@Evilpig> they're both laying next to me and eve started hitting me with her tail
10:02 <@Dagmar> Mortie doesn't seem to care _at all_ that I'm trying to murder people in a game sometimes
10:02 < Synx_hm> mine plays fetch, and demands i play at the worst times
10:02 <@Dagmar> She'll climb right up onto my lap, put her paws on my chest, and dig in for some serious head-butting
10:03 < Synx_hm> either 2am (runs up and down the halls crying as loud as she can then tosses her toy at us on the bed) or while im in the middle of a conf call
10:03 <@Dagmar> Only thing I can do is lean back in my chair and pet her with both hands for awhile until she's gotten it out of her system
10:04 <@Evilpig> you could engage in a round of super kitty
10:04 <@oddball> or she knows something's wrong with you and is trying to help.
10:04 < aestetix> god I love vim
10:04 < aestetix> How is anyone satisfied with sublime
10:05 <@Evilpig> it has a mouse
10:05 < aestetix> do you really need a mouse to program
10:07 <@Evilpig> if you're building a UI, yup
10:07 < aestetix> I mean actual programming, not hipster crap
10:07 <@Evilpig> are you calling the windows desktop, hipster crap?
10:08 <@Evilpig> millions of gaming teens everywhere will consider them fighting words
10:08 < aestetix> yes
10:08 <@Evilpig> not all programming is backend automation
10:09 < aestetix> or javascript
10:20 < RangerZ1> aestetix: websites wouldn't exist if the only browser was text only
10:20 <@Mirage> General announcement:  The Cisco Nexus 1000v virtual switch is a piece of shit
10:20 < RangerZ1> I think those existed back in the BBS days, but thankfully no one here is old enough to have lived through those dark ages
10:22 < aestetix> who said anything about browsers?
10:22 < aestetix> I am talking about vim
10:22 < aestetix> don't confuse it with emacs
10:22 < RangerZ1> no, but JS, and whatnot requires mouse
10:23 < RangerZ1> let alone video games
10:23 < aestetix> why does programming javascript require a mouse?
10:23 <@Evilpig> testing user interaction
10:23 < RangerZ1> because  you need a mouse to test it
10:23 < RangerZ1> especially with HTML5
10:24 < RangerZ1> and artificially limiting your input methods is counter-productive
10:24 < RangerZ1> if you don't care about anything other than "is the server up" then sure, CLI can be enough
10:25 < RangerZ1> but developing anything that interacts with the user.... you have to test -as the user-
10:25 < Synx_hm> anybody care to briefly explain mDNS, say i boot up a linux machine on my subnet however its not registered in DNS, how is it then that windows is able to find the server xmin later with nslookup server1
10:26 < Synx_hm> is that even mDNS?
10:26 < RangerZ1> thats noDNS for you ;)
10:33 <@Dagmar> That would have to be mDNS
10:33 <@Dagmar> ...or WINS (Samba)
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10:33 <@Dagmar> mDNS uses network broadcast advertisements to publish names and information about 'services' offered by that host when it comes onto the network
10:33 <@Dagmar> THis information gets cached
10:37 <@Dolemite> Ok, snow is coming down pretty fast, now.  The level of precipitation has exceeded the "I feel justified for staying home" state.
10:39 < Synx_hm> Dagmar: Samba would have to be installed for netbios/smb host resoltion to work on the linux box though right, so i assume mDNS is OS supported out of the box
10:42 <@Dagmar> Yeah if you check you'll almost certainly have Avahi running
10:44 < aestetix> RangerZ1: but testing != writing the code
10:45 < aestetix> I totally agree you need a mouse to test things.
10:46 <@Dolemite> Sublime does have some plug-ins that are way overboard, but it's actually a rather handy text editor.  I have maybe 5-6 plugins enabled and they add real functionality.
10:47 <@Mirage> aestetix: yeah, testing during development is highly overrated.  I personally just test in production.
10:47 < aestetix> Mirage: lol
10:47 < aestetix> So you develop in vim in one window, and test with your mouse in another window
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10:54 < RangerZ1> aestetix: you are sounding like a curmudgeon
10:55 < RangerZ1> "how dare these kids with their mouses get onto my lawn"
10:55 < RangerZ1> yes.... technically.... you can a lot of the same actions as a mouse with complicated keyboard inputs
10:56 < RangerZ1> but no laptop has been made in.... how long.... that hasn't had a touchpad and USB for mouse if you want an actual mouse?
10:56 < RangerZ1> let alone desktops
10:56 < RangerZ1> sorry
10:57 <@Dagmar> Fuck fumblepads
10:57 <@Dolemite> And nobody is saying that you have to use these fancy new editors
10:57 < RangerZ1> excluding new macbooks, you only get 1 USB C and that is for power
10:57 <@Dagmar> Keyboard nipples or GTFO
10:58 < RangerZ1> but soon Apple Macbooks won't even be considered 'computers', they will just be Apple iDevices too
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11:02 < RangerZ1> http://nichegamer.com/2015/10/arslan-the-warriors-of-legend-western-release-date-set-new-gameplay-trailers/
11:02 < PigBot> Title: Arslan: The Warriors of Legend Western Release Date Set, New Gameplay Trailers - Niche Gamer (at nichegamer.com) http://tinyurl.com/odjdphq
11:02 < aestetix> RangerZ1: unless you guy the $65 adaptor
11:02 < RangerZ1> okay... this is some bullshit... depending on where you buy the game, you get different exclusive content
11:02 <@Dagmar> Usually it's just different weapon skins
11:03 < aestetix> speaking of skin, is Anita Sarkeesian still making videos?
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11:03 <@Dagmar> ...but yeah, it's clearly geared to make some people rebuy the same thing multiple times
11:03 <@Dagmar> aestetix: Would you like to clarify what you're talking about?
11:04 < aestetix> The feminist frequency videos that were talkin about sexism in games
11:04 <@Dagmar> You can't go look at her bullshit by yourself?
11:04 <@oddball> Holy shit... no wonder my new tablet charges faster on it's included charger plug than hooked up to a computer.  According to Lenovo, it's set to pump out 2A at 20V.
11:05 <@Dagmar> _20V_?
11:05 <@Dagmar> Holy fuck
11:05 < aestetix> Dagmar: I could, but I figured RangerZ1 alreayd knew
11:05 <@oddball> yes.  A total of 40watts.
11:05 <@Dagmar> That must have one hell of a connecting cable
11:06 <@oddball> Which explains the "yeah, it'll take a little bit of time to charge" from the plug vs. "yeah... come back sometime tomorrow" from the computer.
11:06 < RangerZ1> nope, why would I keep up with her crap. She DOES have a point, but she purposely crafts her persona, and her videos as to cause controversy. I don't have time to deal with the amount of Drama in my own damn life, let alone purposely adding more onto it from faux controversies online
11:06 <@oddball> Apparently the supplied USB cable has a couple extra wires in it to handle the load.
11:07 < RangerZ1> IIRC USB 3.1 can handle 25w 5v @5amp
11:07 < RangerZ1> 3.0*
11:07 <@Dagmar> It ALSO uses additional wires for that
11:07 < RangerZ1> but you have to turn that on in your bios before it will even ATTEMPT to go beyond 2A
11:08 <@Dagmar> That strange double-wide connector that's on the Samsung Galaxy S5 and above needs those extra wires to support that
11:09 < RangerZ1> ohh yeah... I remember that car charger which basically had a "Fuck Dagmar" label in its description
11:09 < RangerZ1> hehe
11:09 <@Dagmar> For whatever fucking reason, the same functionality with USB 3.0 only works when _Apple_ devices are plugged into a USB 3.0 port
11:09 <@Dagmar> I kinda want to yell as ASRock for being lame about that
11:10 <@Dagmar> The car charger problem is the phone's fault
11:10 <@Dagmar> If it won't attempt to draw at least one CU (charge unit, i.e., 500mA) then what the fuck does it even think it might be connected to
11:10 <@oddball> RangerZ1: There's been several games that have exclusive content depending on where you bought it.  Granted, it's usually skins or starting weapons.
11:11 <@Dagmar> It looks like with that game both sets have the same perks
11:11 < RangerZ1> yeah I know, I just fucking hate that shit, and call it out as BS
11:11 <@Dagmar> It's another one of those "original owner" bonuses
11:12 < RangerZ1> The worst I ever fucking saw was fucking Watch_Dogs
11:12 < RangerZ1> had like 15 versions
11:12 <@oddball> Oh, I agree
11:12 <@Dagmar> Don't forget that they were "Pre-order To Win" weapons
11:13 <@Dagmar> _THat_ was kind of shitty
11:13 <@oddball> And they usually put out the exculsive extras on sale as DLC a year or two after release.
11:13 <@Dagmar> If not a month after release
11:13 <@oddball> fair enough.
11:14 <@Dagmar> I've already seen a few games on Steam that had the pre-order bonus as DLC on fuckin' release day
11:14 <@oddball> ha!
11:14 <@Dagmar> Oohh Bravely Second on Apr 15
11:14 < RangerZ1> actually I think thats good, pre-orders get it free
11:14 < RangerZ1> I'm perfectly fine with that
11:15 <@Dagmar> WEll, it's kind of dickery both coming and going
11:15 <@Dagmar> FOr one thing, they're asking people to pay them _well_ before the product will be delivered
11:15 <@Dagmar> Would you put up with this shit from your grocery store?
11:15 < RangerZ1> if my groceries showed up when I scheduled them to my door.... yes
11:15 < RangerZ1> lol
11:16 <@Dagmar> ...and then for the other, they're deliberately attempting to downplay the price of the game by selling you the core and then the rest piecemeal
11:16 <@oddball> bwahahaha... a friend of mine got reported for "private firearms sales" on Facebook.  On his business' page.  Which is a gun shop.
11:16 < aestetix> www.brave.com
11:16 <@Dagmar> ...and lately there is ALWAYS in-game begs or terminating questlines to bother you about the DLC if you don't get it
11:16 < aestetix> http://www.brave.com
11:16 < PigBot> Title: Brave Software | Building a Better Web (at www.brave.com) http://tinyurl.com/m5dvryt
11:16 <@Dagmar> THIS IS ARTIFICIAL BULLSHIT NARRATIVE IN A GAME AND UNWELCOME
11:17 < RangerZ1> http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Emblem-Fates-Birthright-Nintendo-3DS/dp/B010NCWJXK/
11:17 < PigBot> RangerZ1: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
11:17 < RangerZ1> also...
11:17 <@oddball> yeah... DLC thrown up the day of release pisses me off.
11:17 < RangerZ1> Fire Emblem Fates: Birthright - Nintendo 3DS feb 19th
11:17 <@Dagmar> Looks like jus tanother company looking to take a piece of Adblock's market while giving free blowjobs to online advertisers
11:18 <@Dagmar> It's like they're trying to pretend the other advertisers aren't trying to maintain clean vendor relationships
11:18 <@Dagmar> THey'll fail just like everyone else
11:18 < aestetix> Dagmar: they allow ads, but not the tracking.
11:19 < aestetix> And full disclosure, one of my friends works there.
11:19 <@Dagmar> Full disclosure, I don't fucking care
11:19 < RangerZ1> "yeah, that'll work"
11:19 <@Dagmar> Most of the people who use AdBLock do so because of the fucking _malware_ attacks that happen so frequently via advertisers
11:19 < aestetix> lol
11:20 < RangerZ1> any ad network that doesn't allow tracking isn't going to fly, b/c advertisers have no trust that the ad views are 'real'
11:20 <@Dagmar> So... the ads aren't a fucking problem, but the goddamn shiftyware and "CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD" "ads" *are* a fucking problem
11:20 < RangerZ1> good luck to them
11:20 <@Dagmar> I could give two shits if there's an ad banner on the screen
11:20 < aestetix> see, this anger is why we need to get Dagmar in more government meetings.
11:20 < aestetix> I would love to watch a politician react to a Dagmar rant
11:20 <@Dagmar> I'm just being honest
11:21 < RangerZ1> my problem was with fucking flash ads that would auto-play sound
11:21 < aestetix> oh I know
11:21 <@oddball> Yeah.  Static banner ad?  fine.  Things that make the noise/get in the way of getting to the actual site? grrr...
11:21 <@Dagmar> Ads arent' really a problem when they just sit there and don't try to forcibly draw attention to themselves
11:21 <@Dagmar> VEry few people actually give a shit about that
11:21 <@Dagmar> ...but all these fucking websites just freely engage in a long-haul game of "How Deeply Can I Bury My Head In The Sand" with impossibly stupid ways of handling delivery of the ads
11:22 <@Dagmar> ...which is why we've got the race to the bottom of the barrel going on with ads and some websites offering otherwise free software that is only slightly less complex to download than defusing a fucking bomb, and about as _safe_ considering what's at stake
11:23 <@Dagmar> I'm looking at Ad.fly as one very excellent example of an "advertiser" who is doing nothing but acting as a anonymizer for fucking criminals.
11:24 <@Dagmar> The only "clean" ads are the ones with simple, known file types, being served from the goddamn content provider's site along with everything esle
11:24 <@Dagmar> ...but most sites aren't willing to _do_ that.
11:25 < RangerZ1> hell I have that on MY own fucking wordpress site
11:25 <@Dagmar> They merrily hand off those connections to a server that "somehow" stars handing out malware to "only 1 in about two thousand visitors"
11:25  * Evilpig slaps RangerZ1 for saying that filthy word
11:25 < RangerZ1> self hosted first party ads , adblock looks at it and is like "nothing wrong here"
11:25 <@Evilpig> I don't mean fucking, either
11:26 <@oddball> Dagmar: Gotta love getting hit with a nasty virus from... oh... CNN's website, etc.
11:26 < RangerZ1> normally I pay good money for redheads to slap me around.... but not in this case
11:26 <@Dagmar> oddball: Precisely
11:26 < RangerZ1> oddball: ++
11:26 <@Dagmar> As long as Brave believes they should put "clean ads back" they're not solving any acutal problems
11:27 <@Dagmar> Not that it'll stop sites from doing proxy redirects for their ad space, but the moment these sites are found out they should have all their ads blacklisted
11:27 < RangerZ1> also, the 'tracking' part is the least troublesome in my point of view
11:27 <@Dagmar> ...but right now the majority of them aren't even pretending to be self-origin
11:27 <@Dagmar> Pandering to the paranoid isn't helping anyone
11:28 <@Dagmar> One of my favorite rebuttals is "
11:28 <@Dagmar> "No, Google only tracks the intelligent user."
11:28 <@Dagmar> "You're totally safe."
11:30 <@oddball> heh
11:30 < RangerZ1> the tracking part of ads isn't great... but right now, oddball's point is the bigger concern. I consider adblock a -security tool-
11:31 <@oddball> Yeah... I actually resisted installing adblock for a while because, hey, I want people to be able to pay for their sites.  Unfortunately, I hit too many *news* sites where my 50mbps down cable modem was choking due to the ads being downloaded.
11:32 <@oddball> And then started the wave of using ads as an attack vector.
11:34 < RangerZ1> yeah, or ads that auto-redirect pages so you can't even stay on the page you want
11:34 < RangerZ1> fuck those^1234123
11:34 <@oddball> oh... motherfucker... those.
11:41 <@oddball> Heh.  Why I'm perfectly fine with Obama's EO calling for more FBI agents working on the background check system for gun sales (NICS).  All vacations for the NICS division have been cancelled since Thanksgiving due to backlog/load: http://tinyurl.com/hudpmph
11:41 < PigBot> Title: FBI official: 'Perfect storm' imperiling gun background checks (at tinyurl.com) http://tinyurl.com/h53lttd
11:43 < RangerZ1> thats easy, just re-assign them all, and only have 1 person doing them
11:44 <@oddball> So... manadtory 3 day waiting period, and no real background check?
11:44 < RangerZ1> no
11:44 < RangerZ1> just have to wait the years for the background check
11:44 < RangerZ1> -_-
11:44 <@oddball> Nope.  Current law requires the fed to get back in 3 days.
11:44 < RangerZ1> then just deny
11:44 <@oddball> For exactly that reason.
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11:45 < RangerZ1> because the republicans are going to -cut- funding to the FBI on this
11:45 < RangerZ1> let alone -increase it-
11:46 <@oddball> That's not what's caused this.
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11:47 <@oddball> There's been a steady explosive growth in gun sales over the past decade.
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11:47 < RangerZ1> yeah
11:47 < RangerZ1> there is a democrat in office
11:47 <@Dolemite> heh.  You just said "explosive" and "gun".
11:47 < RangerZ1> and a black man at that
11:48 < RangerZ1> of course that was going to happen
11:48 <@rattle> Holy fuck..  http://www.barchart.com/commodityfutures/Gulf_Sour_Crude_Oil_Futures/MT  http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/energy/crude-oil/light-sweet-crude.html
11:48 < PigBot> Title: Barchart.com - Futures Prices for Gulf Sour Crude Oil (at www.barchart.com) http://tinyurl.com/zqz949y
11:48 <@oddball> Yes yes... because all gun owners are racist white men.
11:48 <@rattle> Energy companies are going to start dropping like flies if this keeps up.
11:48 < RangerZ1> no, not 'all'
11:48 < RangerZ1> rattle: lets hope it hurts the fracking industry too
11:49 <@rattle> I gotta hit the Bloomberg terminal at some point..  I heard that Dakota sour crude was trading negative..
11:49 < RangerZ1> I was getting tired of the earthquakes in _ohio_ because of the waste water being dumped and lubricating fault lines
11:49 <@rattle> There _will_ be defaults in the fracking industry..
11:49 < RangerZ1> rattle: has been for a while
11:50 <@oddball> Oh, from the cheap oil?  Yeah.  There was talk of the frakkers being hurt badly a few months ago.
11:50 < RangerZ1> ohhh also... those companies have a exemption from the EPA on the clean water act
11:50 <@rattle> Cheap oil is great for consumers in the short term..  But if this keeps up, it will completely tank the energy market and probably throw us into another economic crisis.  It's too low right now..
11:51 < RangerZ1> nah, its not 'too low' right now
11:51 <@rattle> It's part of the reason Russia is being so agressive recently..
11:51 < RangerZ1> wait for 1.00$/gallon gas
11:51 <@rattle> It is..  There's a magic number right around $50 a barrel we really want to be at if we want global economic stability..
11:52 <@rattle> And none of the producers want to cut production right now or they will lose market share.  This shit is in a downward spiral..
11:52 < RangerZ1> don't worry, "economic stability" isn't going to last anyways
11:52 < RangerZ1> we're in the middle of another housing bubble right now
11:52 <@rattle> Who would have thought ten years ago we'd be concerned about oil being too cheap..  Heh.
11:53 < RangerZ1> rattle: OPEC, particularly Saudi Arabia + other sunni states purposely want to ruin other oil producers
11:53 < RangerZ1> mainly iran+russia , and US is just a bonus
11:53 <@rattle> Nod..  Much of it is about strangling Russia, who's economy is falling apart because of this..
11:54 <@rattle> Nod..  They want to kill the fracking trend.
11:54 < RangerZ1> and good on them too
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11:54 < RangerZ1> it'll just push wind+solar
11:54 < RangerZ1> lol
11:54 < RangerZ1> if Germany can get ~1/3 of its power from solar....
11:54 < RangerZ1> and it gets like 1/3 the sunlight as Ohio....
11:55 < RangerZ1> but the REAL problem we're facing has nothing to do oil itself, it has to do with climate, just look at Cali and flint michigan
11:55 <@rattle> Actually, this hurts solar and wind..  http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/natural-gas.aspx?timeframe=3y
11:55 < PigBot> Title: Natural Gas Price: Latest Price & Chart for Natural Gas - NASDAQ.com (at www.nasdaq.com) http://tinyurl.com/j865yvf
11:55 < aestetix> wow, Trump is looking more and more like Robert Moses
11:56 < aestetix> He must have a whole team dedicated to digging up dirt on Cruz/Hillary
11:56 < RangerZ1> rattle: I'm talking when the crash happens, lol, and oil skyrockets back up
11:57 < RangerZ1> climate change -> droughts and floods, etc.... are going to lead to conditions that favor war
11:57 < RangerZ1> the syrian civil war was helped along by the fact that it is in the middle of a 6 year drought there
11:58 < RangerZ1> it was obviously not the ONLY reason, but it added to the tinder that started the fire
11:58 < RangerZ1> and I'm expecting a minor revolt in Flint MI soon...
11:58 < RangerZ1> ohh nevermind, they are only poor people who got poisoned for generations
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12:00 < aestetix> are they black too?
12:00 < RangerZ1> yep
12:01 < RangerZ1> 50%+
12:01 < RangerZ1> or something
12:01 < aestetix> oh yeah nobody will care about that
12:01 < RangerZ1> personally I'm hopeful that someone goes to jail
12:01 < RangerZ1> but who am I kidding
12:02 <@oddball> And the only reason that it's no longer showing up as the most dangerous place in the country is because the population has dropped too low.
12:02 <@oddball> The head of the state's version of the EPA has been fired, but... yeah.
12:03 <@oddball> Some of the folks at that agency fucked up badly.  "oh, this additive that is usually added when water is going through old lead pipes?  Yeah... we're not going to tell you to add that shit.
12:03 <@oddball> "
12:04 < _NSAKEY> To jump in late on the ad discussion, I started blocking without discrimination once pop-ups became a thing, and never looked back.
12:04 < aestetix> jesus
12:04 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvlm3LKSlpU
12:04 < PigBot> Title: Full video: Sarah Palin endorses Donald Trump - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/hqnxfv5
12:04 < aestetix> she sounds like she got dumber
12:04 < _NSAKEY> When net neutrality was hanging in the balance, blocking all ads became about not having my bandwidth ruined.
12:04 < _NSAKEY> Now that ad blockers are a security tool? It's a moral imperative to block all ads.
12:05 < _NSAKEY> Nevermind the fact that I dislike the tracking aspect, and would block for that reason alone.
12:05 < RangerZ1> same, the 'tracking' I have minor issues with, the fucking "here is a virus" I have major issues with
12:05 < RangerZ1> the 'tracking' we can have a debate about
12:06 < RangerZ1> an attack vector... no
12:06 < _NSAKEY> I even had the doll that they sent when you successfully punched the monkey.
12:06 < _NSAKEY> Or maybe that was from the ad where you click on the money in the trees, I can't remember.
12:06 < _NSAKEY> In any case, I didn't care circa 2000, then learned more about how the world worked and noped right out of all that bullshit.
12:07 < RangerZ1> ohh see... I purposely waited until like 2006 or so
12:07 < RangerZ1> I want to support sites I go to
12:07 < _NSAKEY> Pop-ups sent me running to adblock plus.
12:07 < RangerZ1> but auto-play flash ads + attack vector shit _made me_
12:07 < _NSAKEY> That was around 2002 or 2003, maybe.
12:07 < RangerZ1> because I was working at a call center
12:07 < RangerZ1> and I couldn't have audio ads playing
12:07 <@Dagmar> Ouch https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/8149_10153277770706680_8620793645180521011_n.jpg?oh=329a8e88f6ce5a2ff29cf6ee3dc36fe1&oe=573D3165
12:08 <@oddball> What RangerZ1 said.  "oh, this static banner ad pays for my free ice cream?  Ok."
12:08 < _NSAKEY> Yeah, static banner ads were ok, but everyone abandoned those around 2001.
12:08 <@oddball> Dagmar: Of course.... the clear water was coming from the city of Detroit. :p
12:08 < _NSAKEY> They became annoying gifs around the time of the dot-com bubble popping.
12:08 <@oddball> true
12:08 < _NSAKEY> Then got supplemented by pop-ups.
12:09 < RangerZ1> oddball: same thing in Youngstown, Youngstown city water is the best water you can get around there too
12:10 < _NSAKEY> As for the Flint situation, I don't think there should be jail time.
12:10 < _NSAKEY> There should be public executions.
12:10 < RangerZ1> nah
12:10 < RangerZ1> that is too quick
12:10 < RangerZ1> they should be put in stockades
12:10 < RangerZ1> and just 'left alone'
12:10 < RangerZ1> let the population do with them as they want
12:10 < _NSAKEY> If we started murdering politicians for being politicians, or simply gave them over to an angry mob to tear to pieces, and it just "happened" to air on live TV, that would stop a lot of this bullshit.
12:13 < _NSAKEY> Or more appropriately, it would be more poetic if an angry mob made that mayor drink the tainted water.
12:13 < _NSAKEY> It could even add a twist to water boarding.
12:14 < _NSAKEY> "Yes, we're going to detain you indefinitely... And the only liquid you'll be given is this messed up water that you tried to sweep under the rug."
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12:20 < RangerZ1> so to give everyone a chuckle
12:20 < RangerZ1> http://www.amazon.com/South-Park-Fractured-but-Whole-PlayStation/dp/B00ZJBSCJQ/
12:20 < PigBot`> RangerZ1: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
12:20 < RangerZ1> [South Park: The Fractured but Whole]
12:21 < RangerZ1> that name.... lol
12:22 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: PigBot, @Feltenix, @Catonic, @oddball
12:22 < _NSAKEY> Did you guys see this? http://gawker.com/donald-trump-supporters-are-mostly-childless-single-me-1753939640
12:22 < PigBot`> _NSAKEY: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
12:22 < RangerZ1> watched it live
12:23 < RangerZ1> and I'm sure that we have several people like that in this room who don't support Trump
12:23 < RangerZ1> lol
12:24 <@Mirage> IMO this is a load of crap. http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35360113
12:24 < PigBot`> Title: Oscars 2016: George Clooney and Lupita Nyong'o add to criticism - BBC News (at www.bbc.com) http://tinyurl.com/jgyxt2z
12:25 < RangerZ1> Mirage: why?
12:25 < RangerZ1> because you favor a white's oscars and a colored's oscars?
12:26 <@Mirage> Sorry, but if it's supposed to be based on best performance then race/sex shouldn't be any part of the choosing and if it so happens that all the nominees are the same race/sex then so be it.
12:27 <@Mirage> that's about like saying that the top 10 students for the principal's honor role at a school has to be racially diverse, not just based on who the best students are
12:27 < RangerZ1> yeah, but from my understanding (i haven't watched a lot of movies this year) was that there were a fair amount of black actors/actresses which had just as good performances
12:28 < RangerZ1> well then we should get rid of the 'actress' category
12:28 < RangerZ1> and just have 'best actor'(male and female)
12:28 <@Mirage> no, no, no..that makes sense
12:29 <@Evilpig> fuck all that noise. if the oscars want to be "the white oscars" that's fine.  they have the BET awards too, but you don't hear a bunch of people complaining about it
12:30  * Evilpig is now officially the racist, priviledged white guy
12:30 < RangerZ1> Evilpig: you had that covered when you were from KY
12:31 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: Living in KY isn't exactly a privilege.
12:31 < aestetix> btw
12:31 <@Mirage> Evilpig: but you're a ginger..
12:31 < aestetix> Apparently in Iceland, a lot of banks send you a notice if you overdraw your account, and give you a grace period to add in funds so you don't get an overdraft charge.
12:31 < aestetix> That blew me away.
12:32 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: That's a far cry from BoA subtracting everything from your account before adding deposits, in the hope that you overdraft.
12:33 <@Mirage> aestetix: once upon a time there were banks in the US that would notify and give a grace...then they got bought out by the bigger corporate banks
12:33 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: yes, as I just saw the news article that banks made $6 billion off overdraft charges
12:38 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Quit: zzz]
12:40 <@Mirage> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35361664
12:40 < PigBot`> Title: Who, What, Why: Is it dangerous for dogs to fetch sticks? - BBC News (at www.bbc.com) http://tinyurl.com/hfs5wh3
12:41 <@Mirage> LOL... "Playing with sticks can also encourage dogs to chew on them."
12:41 <@Mirage> Like dogs need encouragment to chew on anything.
12:43 < oddball_> What's next?  Don't get scratching posts for cats because they just encourage them to scratch?
12:43 <@Mirage> Probably.
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12:56 <@klixa> banks in the US purposelly cause overdrafts...they group transactions from larger ot smaller so that where you would have had 1 overdraft based on how you spent your money, they will make you have like 10
12:57 < trickshotjohnny> I disagree with that.  the person trying to kite their account funds is the one that causes the overdrafts.
12:57 < trickshotjohnny> the banks just rig it in their favor to maximize the number of transactions that will incur penalty fees.
12:59 <@oddball> klixa: They're legally not supposed to do that anymore and can get nailed for it.
13:02 <@oddball> trickshotjohnny: So.. here's a scenario: you have $10 in your account.  You desposit $100 into your account that morning.  You buy dinner for $20 that evening.  The bank hits you with an over draft fee because they decide not to bother processing that $100 until the next day.  You think that's ok?
13:02 <@klixa> trickshotjohnny: ok, i meant they purposelly causes extra overdrafys
13:02 <@klixa> and then what oddball , that would be an example when the bank actually does cause it
13:02 <@klixa> ive luckily never paid an overdraft, but i dont have a job and have time to argue with them
13:02 <@oddball> And several banks were caught doing exactly that a few years back.
13:02 <@klixa> ive been charged plenty of overdraftts tho
13:03 <@klixa> but if you call and argu and argue and argue and threaten to close your acocunt and argue some more...they remove them
13:04 <@oddball> They've also been caught processing transactions X, Y, Z in Z, X, Y order so they could charge 3 over draft fees instead of 1.
13:05 <@klixa> yeah, thats the one i was talking about...the reordering form high to low
13:05 <@klixa> they told me this was a "feature" like as htough it were a good thing
13:05 <@oddball> Well, it's good for them.
13:05 <@klixa> they told me "well, we would hate for your pack of gum to go through but your mortgage payment to get denied, so we do big to small"
13:06 <@oddball> The one time I've gone over it was by 6 cents... and my bank actually said "you know what, we've got this."
13:06 < trickshotjohnny> oddball: that's still kiting.  that $100 isn't available to be used for purchases until it posts.  if you deposit and expect to be able to make purchases before it posts, that's kiting.
13:06 <@klixa> trickshotjohnny: do you work for a bank?
13:06 <@klixa> :P
13:06 < trickshotjohnny> in that case, keep the amount you would need for a purchase in cash or get it back in cash from the deposit.
13:07 < trickshotjohnny> nope, I just know that you're already in crap circumstances if you only have $10 in the bank and you're blowing $20 on dinner.
13:07 <@oddball> taking longer to process deposits than charges is dirty pool.
13:07 < aestetix> so uh
13:07 <@oddball> It's also, in fact, illegal.
13:07 < aestetix> trickshotjohnny: if banks were not prosecuted for the CDS, why would they be prosecuted for kiting?
13:07 <@klixa> yeah, or like, ok i made a purchase last night and it failed...BUT they took my money...and plan to wait 10 days to refund me
13:07 <@klixa> im sick of places QUICK to take your money but slow to give it back
13:07 < aestetix> In the US, just because something is illegal doesn't mean they won't do it
13:08 < trickshotjohnny> aestetix: i dont think you know what that word means.  the consumer is the one that kites.
13:08 < aestetix> Ah ok.
13:08 < aestetix> But I think you get my point?
13:08 <@oddball> trickshotjohnny: I just used those numbers as examples.  You can plug in any ammount to that.
13:08 <@klixa> anyway i have overdrsaft protection now
13:09 <@klixa> id rather be denied than fined
13:10 < trickshotjohnny> technically, there is no hurdle to making those funds available immediately, but it's going to take a while for consumers to get immediate credits posting to their account balance.
13:11 <@oddball> By federal law, banks must make deposits under $10k(?) immediately available.
13:11 <@Evilpig> offered a guy $100 for a ticket to tool this weekend. he told me he paid $280 and couldn't take less than $250 for it.  I just told him sorry for his luck, hopefully he finds someone to take it.  at this point in the game I figured $100 is worth more than $0
13:11 <@klixa> it will sell. everyone i know is tyring to get tickets
13:11 <@oddball> Evilpig: Ask him again on Friday?
13:11 < trickshotjohnny> oddball: no, the federal law says that they have to be available by the next day, not immediately.
13:12 <@oddball> show me the law.
13:12 <@Evilpig> I could but instead me and lastchild are gonna hit up marathon and see the music city burlesque show
13:13 <@klixa> mine are available immediately except checks, which i cash then depsit. dont understand why you can csash a check instantly but of you deposit it, you have to wait for it to clear?
13:13 <@oddball> This is why there's always that note saying "deposits after x time won't be processed until the next business day."
13:14 < RangerZ1> http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/cfpb-and-doj-order-hudson-city-savings-bank-to-pay-27-million-to-increase-mortgage-credit-access-in-communities-illegally-redlined/
13:14 < PigBot`> Title: CFPB and DOJ Order Hudson City Savings Bank to Pay $27 Million to Increase Mortgage Credit Access in Communities Illegally Redlined > Newsroom > Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (at www.consumerfinance.gov) http://tinyurl.com/q9uec68
13:14 < RangerZ1> jesus... I didn't hear shit about this story
13:14 < RangerZ1> a fucknig bank was redlining in 2015.....
13:14 <@oddball> klixa: reminant of old practices where it took time to actually clear the check.  They never had to clear cash, because... well... it's cash.
13:15 <@klixa> oddball: but they cash them on the spot... its weird
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13:15 < trickshotjohnny> shit part about redlining is the requirement for documentation as evidence.  they can do it, but can't get caught unless there's something written down or one of their insiders blows the whistle.
13:15 <@oddball> klixa: Yeah... that's dumb.
13:16 < trickshotjohnny> oddball: http://www.federalreserve.gov/bankinforeg/regcccg.htm
13:16 < PigBot`> Title: FRB: Regulation CC: Compliance Guide (at www.federalreserve.gov) http://tinyurl.com/gktb5u6
13:16 < trickshotjohnny> Section 229.10: Next-Day Availability
13:16 <@klixa> anyway so i basically cash checks then deposit them unless im away from a branch then i deposit digitally with my phone and just wait
13:16 < trickshotjohnny> so, if you deposit $100 into an account containing $10, and you then spend $20 in the same day, you're kiting.
13:17 <@oddball> trickshotjohnny: Ah, ok.  Thanks.  I must have been thinking about interest bearing accounts.
13:17 <@klixa> trickshotjohnny: no, kiting would be your account has $100 and you spend $100 but your bank hasnt deducted it yet then you go spend $100 again
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13:18 < trickshotjohnny> my example is kiting because you would be spending $10 of the $100 you deposited before it posted to your balance.
13:18 < trickshotjohnny> kiting it spending money that hasn't clearance processing, not spending money you don't have.  that's just straight up writing a bad check.
13:19 <@klixa> official definition "Check kiting is a form of check fraud, involving taking advantage of the float to make use of non-existent funds in a checking or other bank account"
13:19 <@klixa> funds that will show up later do exist...and then it gives a million exaplesm none of which are like yours
13:19 <@klixa> examples*
13:19 < trickshotjohnny> klixa: you are correct.  my understanding was incorrect in too narrow of a scope of the term.
13:20 < trickshotjohnny> klixa: so, this set of examples is exhaustive in all possible permutations?
13:21 <@klixa> even w/o examples... its pretty clear its about deliberately oevrdrafting yoruself
13:21 <@klixa> by re=s[emding your money over nad over again
13:21 <@klixa> ack
13:21 <@klixa> by re-spending yoru money over and over again
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13:23 < trickshotjohnny> either way, you're fucked if $10 is all you got in the bank.
13:23 <@klixa> ive done it before accidentally (well my bf rather but it was our account)... he spent $500-ish one day, and then withdrew $500 later because the $500 never deducted
13:24 <@klixa> i myself am very meticulous about money and would never overdraft...i keep track of every penny
13:24 <@opticron> I had my first overdraft recently...the wife and I aren't used to sharing a checking account so we got a nice $25 fee
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13:25 <@klixa> opticron: yeah, sharing sucks in that way...
13:25 < trickshotjohnny> I'm just glad we're done with buying our house.  that was the most painful, invasive financial process I've ever been through.
13:26 <@oddball> Yeah.  That's why Naienko and I have kept seperate checking accounts.
13:26 < trickshotjohnny> I actually had a loan officer demand I provide them with pay stubs dated in the future at one point.
13:26 <@oddball> They... what?!
13:27 < trickshotjohnny> I tried my best to be polite and civil, but I lost it in a storm of cursing about demand papers that didn't exist and weren't scheduled to exist until a future date at that one.
13:27 <@klixa> opticron: my bf and i have a banking app, and before a purchase we check our balance... we also do everything debit and we enabled overdraft protection which makes it deny the purchase instead of charging us an overdrafy
13:27 <@klixa> that works for us
13:27 <@oddball> We actually fired our first loan officer for similar reasons.
13:27 <@opticron> yeah, we're normally really good about it, but we had some unexpected things hit all at once and the paycheck didn't drop into checking until about 5 hours later
13:28 <@oddball> We talked to our bank about using a savings account as an overdraft protection.
13:29 < trickshotjohnny> I actually did go through with the loan with them because they had the best offer, but damn was it frustrating to get there.
13:29 < trickshotjohnny> one of the rare cases that knowing someone that knew someone paid off
13:29 <@klixa> another thing that helped was making my bf stop making $3 transactions at starbucks everyday...now he loads $25 at a time or more onto a starbucks card
13:29 <@klixa> uing a card for $3 is stupid imo
13:30 <@klixa> especially on a daily planned expense
13:30 < trickshotjohnny> eh, doesn't matter for you if it doesn't cost you any extra.  eating the merchants fee is starbuck's problem.
13:30 <@klixa> trickshotjohnny: it causes him to lose track of how much was in the account, $3 here, $2 tyhere, etc
13:31 <@klixa> also, a lot of places charge fees for small transactions, and he dosnt pay attention
13:31 < trickshotjohnny> do they give you any discounts for loading the card that way?  it would make sense for them to lightly incentivize your behaving in a way that benefits them by reducing card processing fees.
13:32 <@klixa> trickshotjohnny: by using a starbucks card we get a free drink every 12 drinks... thats about it...
13:32  * opticron is glad he got his wife to stop going to starbucks
13:32 < trickshotjohnny> eh, that's about an 8.33% discount, so that's something.
13:32 <@klixa> starbucks has been VERY generous to me tho...i once had an injury on their property and they covered the bill and gave me like $300 in starbucks money
13:32  * trickshotjohnny wishes opticron would share his secret.
13:32 <@opticron> that was a ~$50/wk habit
13:32 <@opticron> trickshotjohnny, keurig helped
13:33 <@opticron> we buy bulk packs from costco
13:33 <@klixa> my bf spends $21 / a week at least on starbucks...sometimes its up to 3x that amount
13:33 < trickshotjohnny> heh, that's turned into my finding half drunk cups of coffee on the counter in the morning :P she's still going to starbucks religiously
13:33 <@opticron> we're also budgeting hard right now due to paying off loans and getting into the house
13:33 <@oddball> And that's about the only time that those keurig cups make sense.
13:34 <@oddball> Or you could always get good coffee and use those reusable cups.
13:34 <@opticron> we have that, too
13:34 <@klixa> i only get starbucks when we have the free drink...
13:34 <@opticron> oddball, I need to push her toward that, actually
13:34 <@klixa> they just started the re-usbale keurig, right?
13:35 <@opticron> right now it's ~$0.5/cup with the bulk-packs
13:35 <@opticron> klixa, no, that's been around forever
13:35 <@klixa> opticron: then why were people hacking them?
13:35 < trickshotjohnny> I wasn't a huge fan of the reusable cups.  I'm not a big coffee drinker, but I'd rather go with a french press and hot water since it's so much easier to clean.
13:35 <@opticron> because you couldn't use offbrand cups with the 2.0 machines
13:35 < RangerZ1> klixa: they had to hack them to even allow the reusable cups
13:35 < RangerZ1> because the reusable cups are NOT official
13:35 <@klixa> RangerZ1: they are now tho
13:35 <@oddball> Good news is that the hack is stupid simple.
13:35 <@klixa> i saw them in store the pther day
13:35 <@opticron> the reusable cups for the 1st gen were official
13:36 < RangerZ1> ahh okay, they didn't use to be
13:36 < trickshotjohnny> I love using Keurig 2.0 as my case against DRM for laymen.
13:36 < RangerZ1> ohh *shrugs*
13:36 <@klixa> http://www.keurig.com/content/reusable-coffee-filter
13:36 < PigBot`> Title: My K-Cup Page - Keurig (at www.keurig.com) http://tinyurl.com/jbahvuv
13:36 <@klixa> this is all i know
13:36 <@opticron> yep, that's the new one
13:37 <@opticron> they show both on that page actually
13:37 <@opticron> I have a yellow version of the top one for the 1.0 machines
13:40 <@klixa> trickshotjohnny: i used to use a french press... now i just use a regular drip machine
13:41 <@oddball> Yeah.  The version 1 machine that I have *came* with a couple.
13:41 <@oddball> (bundle pack from Costco)
13:43 <@Mirage> coffee is nasty..ya'll are just gross.
13:43 <@Mirage> lol
13:44 < trickshotjohnny> klixa: however, I drink coffee so infrequently, the miser in me can't justify buying one.
13:46 <@oddball> trickshotjohnny: I use mine mostly for instant hot water for tea, hot chocolate, and ramen.  Now, if it wasn't for the fact that my mom got me one for christmas, I probably wouldn't have bought it, but...
13:50 <@klixa> trickshotjohnny: my drip maker was $10 at walmart... my french press was $40
13:54 < trickshotjohnny> yeah, we've already got something I could make drip with.  I mean the cost of the french press
13:56 <@oddball> ah.  I've been told by serious coffee drinkers that a french press makes awesome coffee, and $40 isn't too bad for something that you're going to use on a regular basis.
13:56 <@klixa> oddball: they break and you have to buy more :/
13:56 <@klixa> ive had many... i shoudl probably get a metal one
13:58 < aestetix> back
13:58 < aestetix> trickshotjohnny: are you still defending banks?
14:00 < trickshotjohnny> never was defending banks.
14:01 <@oddball> klixa: the ones that I've seen have all been glass and metal.  So... don't drop 'em :p
14:03 <@Evilpig> oddball: you're asking alot
14:04 <@klixa> oddball: boiling water is what causes the breaks
14:04 <@klixa> eventually one day you are pouring in water and they crack
14:05 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXoL6dDf0Ws&feature=youtu.be
14:05 < PigBot`> Title: My BEST POPS for you! Blackheads, Whiteheads, Cysts, & Milia extracted & excised. - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/hhqxkmf
14:05 <@oddball> ah, I guess the temper fails or something.
14:05 <@klixa> it takes years
14:05 <@oddball> either that, or stop storing your french press in the fridge/freezer. :p
14:05 < trickshotjohnny> klixa: if it breaks from pouring water in, you're rapidly cooling a hot glass vessel and uneven thermal contraction causes the breaks.
14:06 <@Evilpig> i'm sticking with "klixa angry!  klixa smash!!!"
14:06 <@klixa> lol
14:06 < trickshotjohnny> or rapidly heating it if you store it in the freezer
14:07 <@opticron> Mirage, I agree
14:08 <@oddball> klixa: I'm ok with "well, I spent $40 on this thing 5 years ago, used it daily, and it just broke.  Time to buy another."
14:09 <@klixa> yeah...ive only had 3 ever... so its definately not common
14:10 <@Dolemite>  Welp.  School's out tomorrow, too.
14:28 <@Mirage> opticron: yeah, that was in jest.  I drink at least a pot of coffee a day.  Suprised that Evilpig, Dagmar, Dolemite, oddball, etc didn't call bullshit
14:31 <@oddball> Naienko has decided that she's going to skip going to her dad's tonight.  It's currently juuust at freezing, and the roads around here look wet.
14:32 <@klixa> im in a nice snowy winter wonderland here in Ohio...
14:33 <@oddball> There's enough snow on the ground here to look nice, but not enough to actually do anything with.
14:42 < RangerZ1> other than mess up driving
14:43 <@oddball> well, yes
14:43 < RangerZ1> (but that is mostly because of Inbetween-seat-and-wheel error)
14:43 <@Mirage> and clear out Kroger of bread, eggs, and milk.
14:43 < RangerZ1> and give me an excuse to stay home today
14:43 < RangerZ1> and not drive into vandy
14:43 <@oddball> Eh, if the currently wet road freezes over, there's not much you can do about ice.
14:44 <@Mirage> RangerZ1: any excude is good for that
14:44 <@Mirage> er, excuse
14:44 < RangerZ1> any excude is good for it too
14:44 <@oddball> ice + hills = SOL
14:44 <@oddball> Snow... you've at least got a chance of traction.
14:45 < RangerZ1> thats why in a bit I'm going to actually try and go out and get some groceries
14:45 < RangerZ1> figure I'll wait until -as much- as possible has melted
14:45 <@oddball> See... that's why I did that Monday. :p
14:46 < aestetix> wow
14:47 < aestetix> apparently Hitler was raised Catholic.
14:47 < aestetix> That explains so much.
14:47 <@Mirage> aestetix: while your spouting off "crazy" shit that everyone knows, why not mention Jesus was a jew too
14:48 < aestetix> shit he was?
14:50 <@Mirage> w00t..Fed Ex just delivered my new MythTV box =)
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14:59 < RangerZ1> Mirage: my condolences, at least you can hope for a good DRV sometime in the future
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15:24 < RangerZ1> HAHAHA its warmer in moscow right now than nashville
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15:32 < RangerZ1> ahhh damn it
15:33 < RangerZ1> I was hoping that I slipped through the comcast billing cracks and they didn't realize I upgraded my service
15:33 < RangerZ1> nope, just their billing is weird :/
15:42 < RangerZ1> so I have a (potentially) inflammatory topic/question to ask about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9RmAo6XVAA
15:42 < PigBot`> Title: Reza Aslan Cannot Be Trusted - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/z2qanpt
15:42 < RangerZ1> anyone have an input about this guy Reza Aslan?
15:42 < RangerZ1> obviously Fox News treated him with a lot of disrespect, but I'm curious as to other's input
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16:08 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX9R8p596PY damn it
16:08 < PigBot`> Title: GUESS WHICH CRAZY LADY IS MAKING BIG NEWS?! - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/jx77abv
16:08 < RangerZ1> I figured it was one of Dagmar's ....whatever term we want to use for them....
16:09 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: You missed the outcome of the bet at the last meeting.
16:09 < RangerZ1> nope
16:09 < RangerZ1> I didn't
16:09 < RangerZ1> unlike some of us, I helped him with his hell march to move his shit into the new apartment , lol
16:10 < _NSAKEY> No, I mean the bet he and I made with Elonka.
16:10 < RangerZ1> i know
16:10 < RangerZ1> i know -exactly- what you are talking about
16:10 < _NSAKEY> But you missed it unfolding live, which was hilarious.
16:10 < RangerZ1> ahh, well yeah... I can imagine
16:10 < RangerZ1> but sleep was _NEEDED_ at that point
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16:47 < aestetix> Oh god.
16:47 < aestetix> Who made a bet with Elonka?
16:47 <@oddball> Read the nashville2600 meeting minutes?
16:49 < aestetix> I guess I should.
16:49 < aestetix> If you make a bet with Elonka and lose, she will make you carry out your agreement.
16:49 <@oddball> Oh, it's not explained there, just mentioned.
16:49 < aestetix> There is nobody I would want to piss off in the world less than her.
16:49 <@oddball> The bet was for a dollar.
16:49 < aestetix> Then you had best pay it.
16:50 <@oddball> It was paid by the person that made it at the last meeting.
16:50 < aestetix> Just saying. She is not one to be messed with :)
16:51 < aestetix> A dollar for what?
16:52 <@oddball> You can ask Dagmar
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17:34 < aestetix> fuck ruby
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17:40 <@Evilpig> is she hot?
17:40 <@oddball> That chick from Supernatural?
17:40 < aestetix> yes, but she's shallow, and she's been around
17:40 < aestetix> and she does not scale
17:41 < aestetix> when she gets upset, it is really hard to figure out why she's mad
17:41 <@oddball> Well, that last bit is common.
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17:54 < aestetix> when she gets mad she shits all over the place
17:54 <@Evilpig> my cats do that
17:55 < aestetix> have you had sex with them?
17:57 <@Evilpig> your asbergers is showing again
17:57 <@klixa> my daughter is autistic... she acts nothing like aestetix
18:02 <@Dagmar> RangerZ1: The video about Reza Aslan is basiclaly a large assortment of various fallacies
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18:04 <@Dagmar> RangerZ1: Appeal by Verbosity being a huuuuge one.  There's incredible amounts of unrelated bullshit in that video where they explain common things in detail
18:04 <@Dagmar> RangerZ1: ...and then right at the end, bring in something Aslan said and then _nitpick it_ to show how it deviates ever so slightly.
18:04 <@Dagmar> So Aslan's a media whore.  Big fuckin' deal.
18:05 <@Dagmar> I'd rate him higher quality than a youtuber making this kind of hit piece
18:09 <@Dagmar> Also, you guys have _really_ got to stop watching these fucking youtubers
18:09 <@Dagmar> Like, you're perfectly capable of finding bullshit of questionable merit on the internet yourself
18:09 <@Dagmar> You don't need some idiot to _read them to you_
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19:44 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: my question wasn't about the video. I watched the video and only linked it as a reference as to why I was asking the question about Aslan. I agree that the video has a point about him falsely claiming his degree, but I also agree with your points about the piece being an obvious hit piece (which the guy is allowed to do if he wants)
19:44 <@Dagmar> Between the two, the YouTuber is engaged in a much greater evil
19:44 <@Dagmar> ...especially considering how far from accurate his talk about female genital mutiliation is
19:45 <@Evilpig> Thinking about updating my AP.  thoughts?  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833168138
19:45 < PigBot`> Title: EnGenius ECB1750 AC1750 802.11ac 3x3 Dual Band High-Powered Gigabit Access PointCB - Newegg.com (at www.newegg.com) http://tinyurl.com/haeo9nk
19:45 < RangerZ1> Evilpig: it needs 2 more so you can disguise it as a spider during halloween
19:45 <@Evilpig> upgrading from this.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124412&cm_re=linksys_e1200-_-33-124-412-_-Product
19:45 < PigBot`> Title: Linksys E1200 Wireless-N300 Router - Newegg.com (at www.newegg.com) http://tinyurl.com/hnl2tk5
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19:49  * Evilpig points at the asshole
19:49 < RangerZ1> I bought this, and I'm very happy with it, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F0DD0I6 Don't think it has POE support, but I doubt that is a 'deal breaker' in your apartment
19:49 < PigBot`> RangerZ1: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
19:50 <@Evilpig> that's pretty similar but yeah poe isn't a deal breaker
19:50 <@Evilpig> not much a price difference between the two either
19:52 < RangerZ1> I get wifi on the front steps of my apartment building, and my apartment is on the basement level, on the back
19:52 < RangerZ1> and AP is against inner wall in far room, so it isn't just escaping out the back window
19:54 < RangerZ1> the reason I Got that one in particular is that it came with a c920 logitech camera, and was only 138$ at the time
19:54 < RangerZ1> so I'm curious as to why it went up 50$
19:55  * RangerZ1 shrugs, I guess thats the going rate, and they just had a gut of them previously 
20:01 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: also, apparently the google surveys money actually expires after a year. not that it -really- matters, but I thought was interesting.
20:01 <@sasquatc3> thats not the only one, the asus i got last time i looked went up about 50 too
20:02 < RangerZ1> but I've signed up just recently, and it is pretty decent method to earn some pennies to spend on the play store
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20:27 < RangerZ1> so the Flint MI fiasco is getting even -more- complicated since the Gov. released his emails on the subject
20:27 < RangerZ1> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/us/flint-michigan-lead-water-crisis.html
20:27 < PigBot`> "Couldn't snarf url: HTTP Error 302: The HTTP server returned a redirect error that would lead to an infinite loop.\nThe last 30x error message was:\nFound. http://tinyurl.com/zmjgpop"
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20:46 < Synx_hm> what the fucking fuck
20:47 < Synx_hm> i cannot get multicast traffic to bridge a linux bridge interface
20:49 < RangerZ1> This might be a stupid question.... but did you bridge it on UDP along with TCP? (is that a thing?)
20:49 < Synx_hm> im honestly not the smartest on linux brctl but far as i can tell it should bridge all traffic without bias
20:49 < Synx_hm> MCAST is on each nic
20:50 < RangerZ1> Never made a bridge in linux, so I don't know if you have to declare what type of packets to forward
20:51 < Synx_hm> ya looks like there might be some sysctrl options for it but nothing i do will change those settings oddly
20:53 < RangerZ1> sadly, I'm probably the least experienced linux admin in the room, and.... the only one answering... lol
20:53 < RangerZ1> guess you pissed off everyone else
20:53 < Synx_hm> ha
20:53 < Synx_hm> i asked in docker and not a response
20:54 < RangerZ1> are you just using a dockerfile?
20:54 < RangerZ1> or are you trying to get the mutlitcast to an external device?
20:54 < Synx_hm> the issue is getting multicast (really broadcast SSDP) discovery to work inside of a container
20:55 < Synx_hm> well it works container to container but it wont egress the bridge
20:55 < Synx_hm> i need it to egress to my physical lan
20:55 < RangerZ1> Students for Sensible Drug Policy ?
20:55 < RangerZ1> why are you setting up a server for them?
20:55 < RangerZ1> hehe
20:55 < Synx_hm> ha
20:56 < RangerZ1> https://docs.docker.com/v1.7/articles/networking/ you looked at this?
20:56 < PigBot`> Couldn't snarf url: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:492: error:14077410:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:sslv3 alert handshake failure. http://tinyurl.com/jk4pn2o
20:57 < Synx_hm> oh ya ive been balls deep into docker and issues tickets
20:57 < Synx_hm> there is a known issue getting multical back into docker containers from outside networks but i see no reason why i cant get out of the docker bridge to the outside
20:58 < Synx_hm> even simple ping 224.0.0.1 from docker container doesn't egress the docker0 bridge
20:59 < RangerZ1> http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2014/10/general_motors_wont_use_flint.html
20:59 < PigBot`> Title: General Motors shutting off Flint River water at engine plant over corrosion worries | MLive.com (at www.mlive.com) http://tinyurl.com/z9k6fsl
21:00 < RangerZ1> yeah.... when GM and a hospital have _equipment_ breaking because of the water....
21:00 < RangerZ1> *SMH*
21:01 < RangerZ1> networking is my biggest gripe with docker
21:03  * RangerZ1 is actually an author of a journal paper on using docker for scalable SimAAS (Simulation as as Service) 
21:05 < RangerZ1> but my contribution was more on the algorithm and metrics parts of the middleware, lol
21:05 < RangerZ1> http://www.dre.vanderbilt.edu/~gokhale/WWW/papers/ANTE15_SIMaaS.pdf actually a good read if you are curious
21:05 < PigBot`> RangerZ1: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
21:05 < Synx_hm> oh nice
21:06 < RangerZ1> the middleware _will be_ open source (at some point) too
21:07 < RangerZ1> but it completes tasks (simulations, but any CPU bound tasks, with a lot of input variables) based on time sensitivity
21:09 < RangerZ1> this would work _really_ well on video encoding batches that have time deadlines
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21:10 < Synx_hm> thats really sweet
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21:11 < RangerZ1> uses bin packing to solve the NP-Complete 'scheduling' problem, and reduces the total number of servers you will need
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22:21 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl-2wQLB9uQ
22:21 < PigBot`> Title: Extreme Trampoline Dodgeball - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/z38wku6
22:21 < RangerZ1> this can't end well
22:40 < Synx_hm> RangerZ1: think i may have figured it out
22:41 < Synx_hm> looking at iptables all multicast packets land at the INPUT chain and not FORWARD chain like normal docker bridge traffic
22:41 < Synx_hm> i assume thats an obvious DUH because any normal NIC receiving traffic addressed to multicast should receive and then terminate it assuming it decided to not respond
22:41 < Synx_hm> no wonder if doesn't bridge out
22:42 < Synx_hm> the server nic says oh look multicast ya i dont desire that thanks
22:56 < RangerZ1> yeah
22:56 < RangerZ1> I kinda figured that much
22:56 < RangerZ1> but how to 'fix' it is the question
22:59 < Synx_hm> not sure yet
22:59 < Synx_hm> noticed they only have TTL of 1 so i wrote a mangle rule to inc that up to 2
22:59 < Synx_hm> now to figure out how to get it out of input and to forward rules
22:59 < Synx_hm> err chain
22:59 < Synx_hm> possible mangle table or nat table
23:18 < RangerZ1> Synx_hm: *hugs*
23:18 < RangerZ1> https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/3043
23:18 < PigBot`> Title: Enable multicast between containers? · Issue #3043 · docker/docker · GitHub (at github.com) http://tinyurl.com/lyo95zs
23:18 < RangerZ1> still an open issue
23:19 < Synx_hm> between containers multicast actually works (at least i think i testing a ton of shit today i know for sure it works with weave net plugin
23:19 < Synx_hm> its getting out of the virtual subnet that is my issue
23:19 < RangerZ1> ahh alright
23:19 < Synx_hm> but ive got an idea with iproute2 rules in combination with iptables marking
23:19 < Synx_hm> ill play with it more tomorrow as im dead tired
23:19 < Synx_hm> see ya
23:19 < RangerZ1> Because I've spent days looking into a bug like that
23:19 < RangerZ1> and then found a bug report
23:19 < RangerZ1> lol
23:19 < RangerZ1> night
23:20 < RangerZ1> but.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmRih_VtVAs
23:20 < PigBot`> Title: Suicide Squad - Official Trailer 1 [HD] - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/z7dt3lq
--- Log closed Thu Jan 21 00:00:45 2016