--- Log opened Sun Jan 03 00:00:39 2016
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01:05 < RangerZ1> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/22/realestate/leasing-begins-for-new-yorks-first-micro-apartments.html?_r=0
01:05 < PigBot> "Couldn't snarf url: HTTP Error 302: The HTTP server returned a redirect error that would lead to an infinite loop.\nThe last 30x error message was:\nFound. http://tinyurl.com/ntdjvt9"
01:05 < RangerZ1> [It calls for eliminating the 400-square-foot minimum to allow for smaller apartments and loosening some density restrictions to fit more units into buildings. But even if these changes prevail, a building consisting entirely of micro units would still be illegal.]
01:05 < RangerZ1> I don't understand why
01:05 < RangerZ1> if someone wants to build a building with 2,000 units each at 400 sq.ft (which is 'acceptable' but still tiny) who cares?
01:06 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: Have you heard about what's going on in Oregon?
01:06 < _NSAKEY> If not... http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/armed-militia-members-take-over-government-building-in-orego#.kvbNWwLlM3
01:06 < RangerZ1> if the building has safe fire/etc exits and people want it
01:06 < PigBot> Title: Militia Members Take Over Federal Government Building In Oregon - BuzzFeed News (at www.buzzfeed.com) http://tinyurl.com/hr7glev
01:07 < RangerZ1> obviously they should send in the swat teams and bust up those "gang bangers"
01:08 < RangerZ1> Anonymous needs to have an opRightWingTaliban for these ass fucks
01:09 < RangerZ1> actually that isn't fair, i don't want to insult the taliban that way
01:10 < RangerZ1> [came in response the impending imprisonment of two ranchers convicted of arson for burning federal land.]
01:10 < _NSAKEY> 2010-2011 Anonymous? Sure, that could be funny... Except these guys probably don't have a website to LOIC.
01:10 < RangerZ1> sure they do
01:10 < RangerZ1> they have youtube/twitter accounts, etc
01:10 < RangerZ1> how else do these people do "call for arms"
01:11 < RangerZ1> wait....
01:11 < RangerZ1> what...
01:11 < _NSAKEY> Ok, so let's say some kid jacksa YouTube account and replaces that video with a My Little Pony episode. Then what?
01:11 < RangerZ1> [Dwight Hammond, Jr., and his son Steven burned 139 acres of federal land in 2001. ]....then ... [In 2015, a judge sentenced both men to five years in prison each. ]
01:12 < RangerZ1> 14 years later
01:12 < _NSAKEY> You're still going to have guys in Oregon, holed up in a federal building.
01:12 < _NSAKEY> Yeah, there is no way this doesn't end poorly.
01:12 < _NSAKEY> Either the federal government will lose the building long-term, or they end up with another Waco.
01:12 < RangerZ1> what do you mean "end poorly" ?
01:12 < RangerZ1> burn the building down
01:12 < RangerZ1> and tell them to come out
01:13 < _NSAKEY> They did that to Chris Dorner. I was listening to the radio traffic when it happened.
01:13 < _NSAKEY> Except they made it clear that they did NOT want to take him alive.
01:13 < _NSAKEY> They basically trapped him in that cabin and set fire to it.
01:13 < RangerZ1> you commit an act of high crimes against the nation/treason, you die
01:13 < _NSAKEY> That was one batshit cop killer.
01:13 < _NSAKEY> This is a group of batshit idiots.
01:14 < _NSAKEY> It's going to be a PR disaster, no matter what.
01:14 < RangerZ1> its one thing to protest a company
01:14 < _NSAKEY> Obama doesn't have the stomach to just hellfire the building and be done with it, which is probably what he should do.
01:14 < RangerZ1> its another to protest the gov't
01:14 < _NSAKEY> I wouldn't even call this a protest.
01:14 < RangerZ1> its a WHOLE OTHER FUCKING BALL OF WAX to take over a gov't building
01:14 < _NSAKEY> It's more like armed conflict.
01:14 < RangerZ1> with guns
01:15 < _NSAKEY> It isn't like they're holding a die-in in front of the entrance.
01:15 < _NSAKEY> What these idiots aren't thinking about is that he actually has the authority to murder Americans on American soil now, per the NDAA or 2011.
01:15 < RangerZ1> if they did a non-violent sit in, I'd actually support them (say they are stupid, but 'support' their right to do it) but you don't get to tell people to bring their arms and take over a location (any location, let alone a fed. building)
01:15 < _NSAKEY> He = Obama, by the way.
01:16 < RangerZ1> they have always had that
01:16 < _NSAKEY> No, not on American soil, against American citizens.
01:16 < RangerZ1> yes
01:16 < RangerZ1> its called " war time activities " or something
01:16 < _NSAKEY> He could drone that building into a pile of dust right now, and there's nothing anyone could legally do about it.
01:16 < RangerZ1> civil war
01:17 < _NSAKEY> No, this was specifically authorized in 2011 or so.
01:17 < RangerZ1> yes
01:17 < _NSAKEY> It was something they snuck into the must-pass NDAA bill.
01:17 < RangerZ1> but "just because it was authorized by one law, doesn't mean it wasn't legal beforehand"
01:17 < RangerZ1> now it just makes it legal for him to not even have to try and defend it
01:17 < RangerZ1> before it was old case law from magna carta era britian
01:18 < RangerZ1> you'd be surprised how much of our law is based off of that era
01:19 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Jcjg5wuBAzYhFRF3jpE5A
01:19 < PigBot> Title: Ammon Bundy - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/zxrznlq
01:19 < _NSAKEY> I'm googling it. Looks like you're right.
01:19 < _NSAKEY> But they authorized putting Americans on kill lists after 9/11.
01:19 < RangerZ1> yeah
01:19 < RangerZ1> that "kill list" isn't constitutional IMHO
01:19 < _NSAKEY> They basically just have to say "Oops, TERRORISM" before bombing the building.
01:20 < RangerZ1> but "who cares" if no one fights it, or "can fight it" legally
01:20 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7M0mG6HUyk
01:20 < cyberanger> forget Humble Opinion, it's not constitutional
01:20 < PigBot> Title: Dear Friends - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/hp46qov
01:20 < _NSAKEY> Just about everything "security" related since 9/11 wouldn't pass constitutional muster, if it actually was allowed to go to court.
01:20 < RangerZ1> cyberanger: also, it only ever matters what 5 of 9 people think is constitutional or not
01:21 < _NSAKEY> I just can't see this Oregon federal building thing ending well.
01:21 < RangerZ1> _NSAKEY: you should watch the first few min of that video, and you'll have an idea of how 'every' one of their videos is like
01:21 < _NSAKEY> Obviously, Obama's not going to blow a federal building back into the stone age.
01:21 < RangerZ1> wish he would
01:21 < RangerZ1> can just call them terrorists
01:22 < RangerZ1> would at least show how fucked up our policies are
01:22 < _NSAKEY> I can't help but wonder if that's their whole point.
01:23 < _NSAKEY> It would also make the election more entertaining, if he did.
01:23 < _NSAKEY> Could you see the Republicans doing logical gymnastics?
01:23 < _NSAKEY> On one hand, terrorism.
01:24 < _NSAKEY> On the other, people who might vote for them would feel alienated.
01:28 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zvrrQbjepc ohh yeah... "BLM 'destroying' ranches by fire
01:28 < PigBot> Title: BLM Destroying Ranches by Fire - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/goxgeeh
01:30 < RangerZ1> 100:1 these ranchers ignored orders to move their cattle this day
01:32 < RangerZ1> "BLM" is the boogie man to these sovereign state types
01:32 < _NSAKEY> I was about to say, "100:1 that listening to the BLM would interfere with their sovereign citizenry."
01:33 < RangerZ1> also....
01:34 < _NSAKEY> It was entertaining enough when the Bundys were in the news over their own BLM drama.
01:34 < RangerZ1> if I lived in a fucking area like this... I'd have fire walls around my house more than fucking Dagmar's network
01:34 < _NSAKEY> I remember reading something in some FOIA where the feds didn't even know if what they were doing was legal, re: the Cliven Bundy case.
01:34 < _NSAKEY> But this... Hahahahaha.
01:34 < RangerZ1> _NSAKEY: what cliven bundy was doing?
01:35 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: That drama with his cattle that had raged off and on since the early 90s.
01:35 < RangerZ1> yeah, it wouldn't surprise me, most people are very clueless about the particulars of what law is legal or not
01:35 < RangerZ1> and 'why'
01:35 < _NSAKEY> Well, this was internal FOIA stuff.
01:36 < _NSAKEY> Well, FOIA-able.
01:36 < RangerZ1> makes sense
01:36 < _NSAKEY> There's also the fact that they were afraid of pushing the case because of the risk of violence, which is sensible.
01:36 < RangerZ1> "boss: is this legal?"
01:36 < RangerZ1> THAT part... i don't know if I agree with
01:36 < RangerZ1> where was that opinion about stop and frisk in NY city
01:37 < _NSAKEY> Stop and frisk didn't target crazy white people with lots of guns.
01:37 < RangerZ1> white people with guns don't get to have more rights than other people
01:37 < RangerZ1> ohh wait... yes they do
01:38 < RangerZ1> thats the point of the 2nd ammendment's wordind
01:38 < RangerZ1> wording*
01:38 < _NSAKEY> The people taking over that gov building in Oregon probably have better firepower than most police departments.
01:38 < RangerZ1> the 'state militia' part was actually a change from the original draft
01:38 < RangerZ1> it was going to be federal militia
01:38 < _NSAKEY> https://twitter.com/joshuarolson/status/683509497961123840
01:39 < RangerZ1> but the southern states wanted their militia (called 'slave patrols') to not be potentially defunded by the fed. gov't
01:40 < _NSAKEY> If these guys had a cause more solid than, "These people got convicted of a crime and we don't like it," they might be worth paying attention to.
01:41 < RangerZ1> its not going to be covered
01:41 < RangerZ1> not even on front page of CNN
01:42 < RangerZ1> white people don't commit sexy crimes
01:42 < _NSAKEY> If it gets crazy enough, they won't have a choice.
01:43 < _NSAKEY> Fox News did an aricle about it.
01:47 < RangerZ1> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-ranchers-will-return-to-prison-angering-far-right-activists.html
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01:48 < RangerZ1> its on google news (mine at least) as a 'top story'
01:50 < RangerZ1> but it being a 'remote' gov't building will probably die it down
01:55 < RangerZ1> http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/11/europe/banksy-steve-jobs-graffiti/index.html
01:55 < PigBot> Title: Banksy's Steve Jobs mural spotlights refugee crisis - CNN.com (at www.cnn.com) http://tinyurl.com/hwuw598
01:55 < RangerZ1> glad he's pointing it out
01:56 < RangerZ1> because under the new immigration laws, we wouldn't be letting steve jobs in the country easily
01:56 < RangerZ1> because his father was Syrian born, so Syria considers his son(s) syrian
01:57 < RangerZ1> which the US does too, btw (US you just have to file for it, but its granted)
01:59 < RangerZ1> https://twitter.com/joshuarolson/status/676956338094755840
01:59 < RangerZ1> wow...
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02:01 < RangerZ1> _NSAKEY: you should send an email out to root/r00t talking about that place on belmont
02:02 < RangerZ1> telling people to check it out before next friday
02:02 < _NSAKEY> The pizza joint?
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02:03 < RangerZ1> yeah
02:08 < RangerZ1> since we gotta plan on you taking over elonka's duties
02:08 < RangerZ1> ;)
02:09 < RangerZ1> protip: turn your HVAC from AC to HEATER
02:09 < _NSAKEY> Don't even joke like that.
02:10 < RangerZ1> (my apt's thermostat has a boolean setting
02:10 < _NSAKEY> I hope Elonka stays.
02:10 < RangerZ1> so do I
02:10 < RangerZ1> but the way she was talking... we'll have to get lucky
02:23 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLzk8z8rUVU so TYT is now aware of it and talking about it (private channel)
02:23 < PigBot> Title: Armed Militia Invades Federal Building In Oregon - Threaten to Kill Government Officials! - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/jrkaamp
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02:55 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: https://twitter.com/ABC/status/683508836716687360
02:55 < PigBot> Title: ABC News on Twitter: "Peaceful protest followed by Oregon wildlife refuge action: https://t.co/1KVABOa2tY" (at twitter.com) http://tinyurl.com/nn6wxsl
02:56 < RangerZ1> jesus fucking christ man
02:57 < _NSAKEY> "Peaceful."
02:58 < _NSAKEY> I read more articles, and it looks like those guys they're protesting over did time for setting those fires...
02:58 < _NSAKEY> ... But a federal judge has decided that they weren't in prison long enough, and that they need to go back.
02:59 < _NSAKEY> I'd like to know what lead to that conclusion.
03:01 < RangerZ1> easy
03:01 < RangerZ1> the law states that 5 yr. min. sentence
03:01 < RangerZ1> they sued saying it was unjust/unconstitutional
03:02 < RangerZ1> so the judge said "fine, then you can serve some X months"
03:03 < RangerZ1> now their legal battle on it being "unconstitutional" has ended and they _STILL OWE_ their (60-X) months
03:03 < RangerZ1> and are being told to report for prison to serve them
03:03 < RangerZ1> because they already served their 'partial' sentences
03:04 < RangerZ1> which also explains the 14 year gap
03:04 < RangerZ1> if anything they should be 'thanking' the gov't for letting them have a 'break' in between the sentences
03:04 < _NSAKEY> I like how their lawyer has already tried putting distance between them and the guys who took over that building.
03:05 < RangerZ1> its mostly the Bundy family
03:05 < RangerZ1> watch that video I linked
03:06 < _NSAKEY> I couldn't sit through that 19 minutes of rambling.
03:06 < RangerZ1> ahh
03:07 < RangerZ1> those are my favorite videos
03:07 < RangerZ1> that and in-depth analysis of advanced topics
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03:18 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXOaCkbt4lI
03:18 < PigBot> Title: 7 Gamers, 1 CPU - Ultimate Virtualized Gaming Build Log - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/hrdzb5a
03:18 < RangerZ1> dual socket + 256 GB EEC DDR4 ram
03:19 < RangerZ1> + 7 R9 nano GPUs
03:48 < aestetix> penis
03:49 < aestetix> jesus 256 gigs of DDR ram?
03:53 < RangerZ1> ECC*
03:53 < RangerZ1> mind you
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09:38 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: https://twitter.com/KevinMKruse/status/683656338665291780
09:38 < PigBot> Title: Kevin M. Kruse on Twitter: "Whoever coined #YallQaeda for the Oregon militia can just take the rest of the week off." (at twitter.com) http://tinyurl.com/j5dot92
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14:39 < RangerZ1> _NSAKEY: ohh the perfect timing of obama's new gun policies coming out with these YallQueda is funny
14:51 < _NSAKEY> I prefer WhiteSIS, personally.
14:51 < _NSAKEY> Al Qaeda is so last decade.
14:51 < _NSAKEY> Plus, it makes them sound like a militant feminist group.
15:17 < RangerZ1> I like YallQueda, points to hicks more than just 'white' people
15:17 < RangerZ1> but *shrugs*
15:21 < _NSAKEY> ISIS is the only terrorist group that's currently relevant.
15:21 < _NSAKEY> YallQaeda doesn't fit since those guys aren't from the south.
15:21 < _NSAKEY> They don't get to wear that particular stereotype.
15:44 < aestetix> You know
15:45 < aestetix> ISIS is mostly non-whites. It follows that these annoying SJWs should really like ISIS.
16:14 < RangerZ1> so I found out that Twitch.tv uses IRC as its chat protocol, I found that interesting (just an FYI)
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17:05 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: How did you come to learn that?
17:06 < _NSAKEY> I've known it for a while, but don't really go to twitch.
17:14 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: https://twitter.com/FranklinH3000/status/683782187892748288
17:39 < RangerZ1> xsplit has a plugin to connect to it
17:39 < RangerZ1> (read only)
17:39 < RangerZ1> whats amusing is you can display _anyone's_ chat feed, not just your own
17:42 <@Evilpig> the eureka and warehouse 13 christmas episodes might be the most cringeworthy tv every created
17:48 < RangerZ1> worse than star wars xmas specials? (which are kinda cute in their own special ways)
17:57 < RangerZ1> _NSAKEY: looks like that protest/etc is now making the news
17:58 < RangerZ1> I guess ABC's shaming last night, along with internet news/social media/etc. talking about it kinda forced their hand
17:58 < RangerZ1> _plus_.... you know... it being BIG NEWS....
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18:48 < RangerZ1> I don't know... I think we should bring some "freedom" to the Oregon wildlife refuge... 'freedom' just like how we bring it to the middle east ;)
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19:33 < aestetix> wait
19:33 < aestetix> RangerZ1: xmas specialS?
19:33 < aestetix> I thought there was only one
19:36 < RangerZ1> there is also radio shows produced for NPR
19:36 < RangerZ1> an entire radio story series
19:37 < RangerZ1> lucas sold the rights to UC .....davis... (or whatever univ. he went to) for 1$
19:37 < RangerZ1> and they even got luke/c3po and a few other real actors to do voices
19:38 < RangerZ1> only like 13 episodes or something, and 1 of them is an xmas special IIRC
19:56 < aestetix> RangerZ1: https://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/dear-parents-everything-you-need-to-know-about-your-son-and-daughters-university-but-dont
19:56 < PigBot> Title: Dear Parents: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University But Don’t - The Los Angeles Review of Books (at lareviewofbooks.org) http://tinyurl.com/jpz8w7o
20:07 < RangerZ1> TLDR?
20:07 < RangerZ1> don't have time to read it right now
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21:17 < aestetix> tldr the education system is fucked
21:23 < RangerZ1> ohh, obviously
21:24 < RangerZ1> we need to decide if education is a "basic human right" or not
21:24 < RangerZ1> and how much
21:24 < RangerZ1> and then we need to decide if we as a society are going to provide "basic human rights" to citizens or not
21:43 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flVW1XjYIjA
21:43 < PigBot> Title: TSA Will No Longer Accept Your Driver’s License - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/jll4psf
21:44 < RangerZ1> NJ and missouri are the only two of significance in here I'm aware of
21:44 <@Evilpig> ky is on that list as of october too
21:44 < RangerZ1> won't be able to go into fed. buildings as of Jan 10th
21:44 <@Evilpig> oct
21:45 <@oddball> I had heard that they had pushed back the deadline... again.
21:45 <@Evilpig> ky was on the late to the short bus list so they got a few extra months
21:45 < RangerZ1> yeah
21:45 < RangerZ1> they have
21:45 < RangerZ1> the fed. buildings is a pushed back
21:46 < RangerZ1> I wonder if that means you can't be arrested? lol
21:46 <@oddball> Second on the DHS FAQ list: http://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs
21:46 < PigBot> Title: Real ID Public FAQs | Homeland Security (at www.dhs.gov) http://tinyurl.com/ocphmax
21:46 <@oddball> They don't currently have date set for enforcement.  They will announce 120 days before implimenting.
21:46 < RangerZ1> that is for Airlines
21:47 < RangerZ1> the video details that
21:48 <@oddball> Ah, sorry.  Yes.  You'll need one by Oct 10th to enter a military base or "almost all Federal facilities."
21:51 < RangerZ1> another reason why I need to hurry up and get my passport
21:51 <@oddball> Sorry... I can't listen to the Young Turk. :p
22:03 <@Evilpig> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=926542804049580
22:03 <@Evilpig> NSFW
22:03 < PigBot> Title: Comments (at www.facebook.com) http://tinyurl.com/ovfaqgb
22:06 < RangerZ1> you filmed that didn't you?
22:09 <@Evilpig> nope
22:41 < aestetix> ugh is real id getting another push?
23:00 <@oddball> Oh, this is people worried that the Fed might actually go through with what the law says that they will go through with.
23:02 < RangerZ1> honestly I think its stupid, we _should_ have a national ID
23:02 < RangerZ1> however, our Constitution is so out-dated, that we do back flips to act as a 'nation'
23:03 <@oddball> We have national IDs.  They're called passports.
23:05 < RangerZ1> also social security cards
23:05 < RangerZ1> except for the federal law banning them from being used as such
23:05 < RangerZ1> despite the fact they are used as such
23:14 < aestetix> RangerZ1: you mean there should be a mandatory national ID?
23:14 < aestetix> RangerZ1: in which case, what is the point of having states anymore?
23:17 < RangerZ1> that is a logical fallacy, and you know it
23:17 < aestetix> Actually it isn't.
23:18 < RangerZ1> of course there should be a mandatory national ID, and anyone saying there shouldn't be is fear mongering
23:18 < aestetix> There's a huge conflict between the 10th amendment and the supremacy clause.
23:18 < RangerZ1> that is different than what you said though
23:18 < aestetix> Since there is not currently a mandatory national ID, and you advocate for one, what are your reasons?
23:20 < RangerZ1> also "mandatory" has bad connotative definitions, so I would instead say "automatic"
23:20 < aestetix> lol
23:20 < aestetix> So 1. when would it be issued 2. what is the penalty for not having one?
23:20 < RangerZ1> Because having a nationally/internationally recognized form of ID is required for interacting within modern society
23:20 < aestetix> 3. can I opt out
23:21 < RangerZ1> 1) it would be issued upon birth or immigration (after everyone has one obviously 2) you will have one free of charge up to once per year 3) no
23:21 < aestetix> maybe a penalty for not having one could be asking corydon a question
23:22 < RangerZ1> 2.1) if you lose it or it is stolen, then you inform the gov't and invalidate your old one
23:22 < RangerZ1> 2.2) how to pay for re-issuing... *shrugs* thats an "implementation detail"
23:22 < aestetix> lol
23:22 < aestetix> free of charge
23:22 < RangerZ1> fine
23:23 < aestetix> so wait, I'm forced to use this system I didn't ask for, and I toss the damn thing away, and you'll force me to buy a new one
23:23 < RangerZ1> I really don't think 2.2 matters much when discussing the merits of the topic
23:23 < RangerZ1> sure its free
23:23 < RangerZ1> there you go, you don't have to pay for it
23:23 < aestetix> ok, so everyone throws theirs out, and it bankrupts the government :p
23:24 < RangerZ1> make it a crime to purposely dispose of it
23:24 < aestetix> I just don't see why the federal government needs to have more power, since they have proven they fuck up what power they do have
23:24 < RangerZ1> you're purposely looking for faults, because you lost the merits of the argument alrady
23:25 < aestetix> I disagree, it sounds like you're advocating a secular version of "divine right of kings"
23:25 < RangerZ1> aestetix: then why have a 'nation', why not have 50 'nations'... ohh wait... thats economic and political suicide in today's world
23:25 < RangerZ1> plus Mexico would take back over most of TX
23:25 < aestetix> RangerZ1: I actually do think the US might need to split up eventually
23:25 < aestetix> That said, the 50 nations argument is addressed in the federalist papers
23:26 < aestetix> RangerZ1: basically, I'm fine with a federal government that has a military, and defends against outside issues. But not one that insists on meddling in domestic shit as well
23:28 < aestetix> So I see getting a passport to go to another country. I do not see the need to require ID to travel between states.
23:28 < RangerZ1> then you're fine with national IDs
23:28 < RangerZ1> because not having them hurts protecting the citizens from outside attacks
23:28 < aestetix> I'm fine with an ID that yo ucan get that would allow you to travel outside of the country.
23:28 < RangerZ1> which is exactly where passports come from
23:29 < aestetix> Right, but a passport is not a mandatory national ID
23:29 < RangerZ1> http://icon.oxfordjournals.org/content/8/4/714.full
23:29 < PigBot> Title: The preamble in constitutional interpretation (at icon.oxfordjournals.org) http://tinyurl.com/hdg6l7l
23:29 < aestetix> If you are born in the US and never leave, you shouldn't be compelled to get a passport.
23:30 < RangerZ1> depending upon your constitutional interpretation of the preamble, then the fed. gov't has the right
23:30 < RangerZ1> for [ provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity] each one of those parts builds up to allowing the national ID, to provide each one of them
23:31 < RangerZ1> I'm not saying it is settled case law, but there is without a doubt a valid argument for it
23:31 < aestetix> well, you're assuming ID is a singular thing
23:31 < aestetix> Surely you can be both a citizen of TN  and of the US?
23:31 < RangerZ1> for simplicity sake, sure
23:31 < RangerZ1> yes
23:32 < RangerZ1> technically I was a citizen of NC then OH, and now TN
23:32 < aestetix> I never said a national ID was not allowed. I said a national ID was not required.
23:32 < RangerZ1> currently
23:32 < RangerZ1> yes
23:32 < RangerZ1> my point is, that it 'should be'
23:32 < aestetix> And I strongly disagree with you on that.
23:32 < RangerZ1> thats fine
23:33 < aestetix> Of course, I live in a country that requires you to tell the government your religion....
23:33 < RangerZ1> I agree that the national ID should have strict _controls_ on it
23:33 < RangerZ1> such as NOT putting your religion on it
23:33 < RangerZ1> lol
23:33 < aestetix> lol like the US knows how to manage their controls
23:33 < RangerZ1> that is a separate issue entirely
23:34 < RangerZ1> it is a complex issue in the totality of world events/etc, but I still say it makes sense to have a national ID
23:34 < aestetix> So if you have to report changes in your ID to the US, it means you are also reporting your ID changes to China :p
23:34 < RangerZ1> and UK
23:34 < RangerZ1> and Germany
23:34 < RangerZ1> but they have direct access
23:35 < aestetix> one thing I will say about Germany
23:35 < aestetix> they have their shit together. it's so different from the US
23:36 < aestetix> I almost wonder if after WW2 some nazis poisoned the water in the US so everyone there would get stupid
23:36 < RangerZ1> hahaha
23:36 < RangerZ1> nah, the US has its shit together just as much as anywhere else, (my implication is that no where really does)
23:37 < RangerZ1> France and Germany is fighting strong off nationalist right wing populist movements
23:37 < RangerZ1> and so are we (Trump)
23:37 < aestetix> I think the US has a special breed of stupid, thanks to NCLB and Common Core
23:37 < RangerZ1> Common Core is 'fine' in theory
23:37 < RangerZ1> the problem is impl.
23:37 < aestetix> Communism is fine in theory.
23:38 < RangerZ1> no I'm being honest
23:38 < RangerZ1> common core has become a boogie man, but if you actually look at it, it just sets minimum standards for education and is actually the way YOU would want it
23:38 < RangerZ1> each state signed treaties with each other state on what the standards should be
23:39 < RangerZ1> Fed. Gov't didn't mandate it
23:39 < aestetix> I'm actually a big fan of the one room schoolhouse idea
23:39 < RangerZ1> the PROBLEM with common core, is the defunding of education in the US on purpose
23:40 < RangerZ1> and NCLB (which is just the biggest 'name brand' of that process)
23:40 < aestetix> well that's also why the student loan problem has happened
23:40 < RangerZ1> yes, Reagan was one of the worst presidents ever, but that is besides the point
23:40 < aestetix> lol and the GOP keep wanking off to him
23:41 < aestetix> He also defunded mental health, so now all the kids get adderoll...
23:41 < RangerZ1> Reagan and Bush 42 were horrible presidents because they 1) had Alzheimers and 2) coked out in their ear lives
23:41 < RangerZ1> so they were easily manipulatable by the people around them
23:42 < RangerZ1> Clinton's issue was that he gutted the social satefty net trying to show that he was a "new democrat"
23:42 < RangerZ1> DMCA
23:42 < RangerZ1> Nafta
23:43 < RangerZ1> Don't ask don't tell
23:43 < RangerZ1> signed into law the cuba ban(before that it was just presidential orders)
23:44 < RangerZ1> so both parties have their issues, just republicans like puppets, and Democrats like charasmatic leaders who promise 'small' changes in private and 'big changes' in public
23:44 < RangerZ1> Obama is the perfect president to 5~10% change
23:45 < RangerZ1> which is why the DNC is so fucking scared of Sanders, and is stonewalling him so much this entire election
23:52 < aestetix> vagina
23:57 < RangerZ1> but I think its almost better at this point if sanders doesn't win the nomination, because then you have all the women voting for Hilary, and then you have sanders in the senate still, now with a much bigger national audience
--- Log closed Mon Jan 04 00:00:42 2016