--- Log opened Fri Nov 13 00:00:42 2015
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03:13 < aestetix> http://happybday.to/John-Wayne-Bobbitt
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05:00 < aestetix> I just came up with the best idea
05:00 < aestetix> I'm going to organize an emacs rehab clinic at Congress
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09:53 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
09:53 <@Dolemite> Man, I'd make a horrible heroin addict.  Took 3 pokes for the nurse to be able to draw my blood.
09:54 < aestetix> Maybe the nurse just sucks at finding a vein
09:54 <@Dagmar> That's when you just make an incision into the side of your leg and slide it in by the spoonful
09:55 <@Dagmar> Didn't the anti-drug training at your high school explain the easy ways to get high without having to shoot up?
09:58 <@Dolemite> Well it's rather ironic.  They tell you to fast from 10 PM the evening before until you get your blood drawn...   but because you're dehydrated your veins are hiding
09:59 <@Dolemite> I chugged 32 oz. of water while they did my spirometer and ekg and vision tests, then went back in for the blood
10:00 < aestetix> god I fucking hate noise
10:01 < aestetix> How the hell does anyone handle working in an open floorplan layout
10:01 <@Dolemite> headphones
10:01 < aestetix> That's a terrible solution.
10:02 < aestetix> also, doesn't handle visual noise
10:02 <@crash180> You don't handle much
10:03 < aestetix> Are offices so bad?
10:03 < aestetix> Even if it's 4 to an office
10:03 <@crash180> They take up a lot of room money to have everyone in a separate office
10:04 < aestetix> so short term corporate profits are more important than long term profits from more productive workers?
10:06 <@crash180> pretty much
10:06 <@crash180> to most CEOs and shareholders
10:06 <@crash180> maximize profits
10:07 < aestetix> and everyone wonders why workplace stress is so high
10:10 <@crash180> yep
10:10 <@crash180> I did not say I agree with it
10:14 <@rattle> I truly hate open office layouts.
10:15 <@rattle> The last two I worked in had the white noise generator stuff that cut down on the whole disturbance factor, but I felt like my overall fatigue level was higher at the end of the day then working in offices or tall cubes.
10:16 <@crash180> That is how it is setup at Bridgestone
10:16 <@crash180> It was very annoying
10:18 < aestetix> Facebook has a video where they brag about their massive open office space
10:18 < aestetix> It would kill me being there. Well, among other reasons :p
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10:29 < aestetix> rattle: to me, an open office space is similar to having a pavlovian bell in your class that dings randomly every 30 minutes
10:29 < aestetix> Actually, I wonder how much the open office layout has caused tension between marketing/sales and engineering
10:30 <@rattle> Apparently at Bit9, alot.  All the sales/marketing people like the open office environment, and all the engineers hate it.
10:31 <@klixa> prolly an intorvert vs extrovert issue
10:31 <@rattle> Or, at least that's how I've been told it played out there, as the transition occured around the time I was leaving.
10:31 <@rattle> Na..  Sales folks like to be able to shout at each other..  Engineers want solace.
10:31 <@rattle> So, well, sorta..  More what the work requires than the personalities.
10:32 <@rattle> I think age plays a role.  At Trip, the younger engineers liked it, and the older ones hated it.
10:33 <@klixa> id never get anything done in an open envirnoment, but id enjoy it
10:33 <@rattle> I'm used to having an office, so it drives me completely bonkers.  And typically, I have company confidential info up on my monitors and whatnot, so it makes me feel very uncomfortable.
10:34 < aestetix> There's also the privacy and turf element.
10:34 < aestetix> But yeah, I love being able to close a door and signal "fuck off" to everyone
10:34 <@rattle> Also, having to leave your desk to make a private phone call is really disruptive.
10:34 < aestetix> Headphones are a very poor substitute for that
10:35 < aestetix> I wonder how many of these fresh out of college kids who like open office spaces have ever worked in retial.
10:35 < aestetix> retail*
10:35 < aestetix> because it's the same feeling
10:35 <@rattle> I think it's just a matter of what you're first introduced to, you get used to..
10:36 <@rattle> But it's really annoying that "I need an office with a door that can be locked" has become an unreasonable request.
10:37 <@rattle> At CAP, I enforced the rule that all the ops/sec staff had to lock their door whenever they left their office.  It was a big political fight to be allowed to have locks installed on doors.
10:38 <@rattle> Depending on screen savers to secure access to highly privileged workstations is, well, dumb.
10:38 < aestetix> Uh.
10:39 < aestetix> A locked door also helps make sure a computer will still be there in the morning.
10:39 <@rattle> Yep.
10:40 < aestetix> That's a lesson that you learn when you wake up to go to work and discover that someone has stolen your car.
10:41 < aestetix> rattle: how many of the people opposed to locks on the doors had experienced crime?
10:41 <@rattle> My current place of employment is truly hardcore about physical security.  I have to two-factor at least once, and badge at least three times to get to my office.
10:41 < aestetix> Since that's usually a good "stop being so fucking naive" experience
10:41 <@rattle> It was purely political.
10:43 < aestetix> So is it a generational thing, or a "these younger kids haven't worked on any hard projects yet" thing?
10:45 < aestetix> On an unrealted note
10:45 < aestetix> here is what SF calls "low income"
10:45 < aestetix> http://imgur.com/ZqTV9m0
10:46 <@klixa> this is why its ridiculos to live in the bay
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10:46 <@klixa> i was poor in california...in Maine im at least middle class
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10:47 < aestetix> klixa: everyone who makes under 100k is poor in CA
10:47 <@klixa> not in all parts of cali
10:48 <@NotLarry> Wow, my "office" is a corner in the common area.
10:48 <@klixa> i lived in Legget, CA...200 miles north of SF ine th redwood forest...and i BOUGHT a home, and my payemtsn were under $300 a month
10:48 <@klixa> my home was basically some shack on some land...buuuut...i owned it...in Cali
10:48 <@klixa> 20 miles to the nearest grocery store....
10:48 < aestetix> NotLarry: do the othe prisoners have offices?
10:49 <@klixa> anyway, yeah, the middle of nowhere cali is cheap/affordable
10:51 <@rattle> aestetix: The lock thing was political.  The open office thing and age, I think is just more you become used to whatever the first environment you work in, and just adapt to it as normal.
10:51 <@rattle> And these days, the whole open office thing is the trend of the moment.
10:51 < aestetix> rattle: but isn't there an objective amount of disruption that open office spaces bring?
10:51 <@klixa> its liek school...in school its an open envirnment
10:53 <@rattle> Depends on a team's culture.  Some folks would rather shout at each other across the room then send email.  I think 90% of it is what you're used to.
10:54 <@rattle> I'm more adapted to the private + WoL platform thing.
10:54 < aestetix> Do any of them hate offices?
10:54 <@rattle> Yes.  I have spoken to people who hate offices.
10:54 <@rattle> Which is alien to me.  :)
10:54 < aestetix> Why do they hate them?
10:54 <@NotLarry> I am simply using the exposure to fight my crippling shyness.
10:54 <@rattle> Because it makes them feel isolated.
10:55 < aestetix> That sounds a bit like this generation of kids who loves pair programming
10:55 <@rattle> I am a big fan of WoL..  I do like to communicate random bits about what I'm working on, and see other people's non-email-worthy comments..
10:55 < aestetix> And all this "collaboration" bullshit
10:56 <@rattle> But, I'd rather have it not be disruptive to my workflow, like someone shouting at me across the room..
10:56 <@rattle> Flowdock is my favorite, but Slack is alright too.  Didn't care for HipChat much.
10:56 < aestetix> Also, consider scale.
10:57 < aestetix> Five in a room is way different than 500.
10:57 <@rattle> And, remote workers..
10:57 <@rattle> When the office culture involves alot of physical cross-talk, folks working remotely truly do feel isolated
10:58 <@rattle> FYI..  I've been experimenting with using WoL for low-friction change control lately, with good results..
10:58 < aestetix> That same generational push also includes the annoying cries for equality
11:00 < aestetix> ok maybe I spent too much time in the bay area
11:00 < aestetix> since I now hate hippies and activists
11:01 <@rattle> And don't forget the unique breed of San Francisco libertarian.
11:01 < aestetix> ugh
11:01 < aestetix> they aren't libertarians
11:01 < aestetix> they are authoritarians who want to be the authority
11:01 < aestetix> especially the assholes like Peter Thiel
11:03 <@rattle> Never met him, but sounds like the stereotype I was referring to.
11:04 <@rattle> There are a few people that fall into it that I really respect, and generarly like, but that I totally do not see eye-to-eye with on a large number of issues.
11:07 <@rattle> Not satire..  https://news.vice.com/article/windows-31-is-still-alive-and-it-just-killed-a-french-airport
11:09 < _NSAKEY> Hahahahahahahaha. That URL is gold.
11:10 <@rattle> If only critical infrastructure aged like scotch..
11:15 <@crash180> and spoke like Sean Connery
11:22 < _NSAKEY> rattle: The town gets bonus points for being named "Orly."
11:24 < _NSAKEY> This almost sounds like a hardware failure.
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12:01 < aestetix> vaigina
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12:36 <@rattle> As I reach out to this major law firm to tell them they have a compromised account that's spearphishing their clients, great overloard Dagmar, give them the wisdom to not shoot the messenger.
12:36 <@rattle> Sudo.
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13:17 < RangerZ|work> http://universalrejection.org/
13:17 < RangerZ|work> aestetix: found an academic journal for you
13:17 < RangerZ|work> you don't even have to use your real name
13:19 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ|work: Sounds like you're encouraging him to submit an entry that consists of "penis" on every odd-numbered page, and "vagina" on every even-numbered page.
13:19 < _NSAKEY> At least, that seems like an aestetix thing to do.
13:19 <@rattle> Wow.  That seems almost like it was written by the Industrial Memetics marketing team.
13:20 < RangerZ|work> _NSAKEY: I'm not limiting his options, he can feel free to do whatever he wants
13:21 < RangerZ|work> as we are to say that he is one of snowden's closest personal friends
13:21 < RangerZ|work> talk about how they skype together on anonymous accounts
13:21 < RangerZ|work> etc
13:21 < RangerZ|work> then we see if in a month he's allowed to travel internationally
13:21 < RangerZ|work> hehe
13:22 < _NSAKEY> Skype is a PRISM partner, so they could verify any trolling like that.
13:24 < RangerZ|work> not as easily as you'd think
13:24 < _NSAKEY> It's still verifiable.
13:24 < RangerZ|work> anon accounts connecting once or twice isn't as big a flag as the NSA would like us to believe
13:25 < _NSAKEY> I don't even think you can use Skype over Tor these days, which is yet another reason to avoid it like the plague.
13:25 < RangerZ|work> just ask FBI director?? (Was it he who last said that encryption needs backdoors, and all that nonsense?)
13:26 < _NSAKEY> Yeah, that guy is anti-good crypto.
13:26 <@rattle> Comey and Johnson are slowly seeing the light..  Slowly..
13:26 < _NSAKEY> rattle: Every time Comey acts like he's removing his head from his ass, he shoves it back into place.
13:27 < RangerZ|work> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151108/09484232755/dea-boss-joins-fbi-declaring-ferguson-effect-to-be-real-thing-offers-up-stuff-i-heard-as-evidence.shtml
13:27 < RangerZ|work> then I see shit like this
13:27 < RangerZ|work> and I'm like... fuck these people
13:27 < _NSAKEY> Yeah...
13:27 < _NSAKEY> I have a thing about that kind of thing I like to tell people.
13:27 < RangerZ|work> always shoot the repo man?
13:28 < _NSAKEY> "Innocent until proven guilty" means that the police are ALWAYS wrong about EVERYTHING by default.
13:28 < _NSAKEY> Expressed another way: Proof or GTFO.
13:28 < RangerZ|work> worked well for Jude Law ... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1053424/
13:28 < RangerZ|work> hehe
13:28 < _NSAKEY> Heh.
13:29 < RangerZ|work> _NSAKEY: the police reforms that are being talked about finally in congress are actually a really good thing
13:29 < RangerZ|work> will have a major impact on the criminal "justice" system
13:30 < RangerZ|work> and help mostly the poor/minorities -to start- but I think it will help to start -decriminalizing being alive-
13:30 <@rattle> I have a feeling Comey isn't going to be serving all that long..  Nothing to base that on..  Just gut feeling.
13:30 < RangerZ|work> rattle: did you hear rumors?
13:30 < RangerZ|work> hehe
13:30 <@rattle> What did I just say?
13:31 < RangerZ|work> you knew about the 3 star general and the 'misbehaviors' too didn't you?
13:31 <@rattle> Which one?
13:31 < RangerZ|work> hold on
13:31 < RangerZ|work> also... SEE... he isn't sure 'which' 3 star general he has dirt on that I'm talking about
13:32 < RangerZ|work> http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/11/12/defense-secretary-ash-carter-fires-senior-3-star-military-assistant/75672766/
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13:33 <@rattle> Oh, yeah.  I saw that in the news today.  I have no context behind it.
13:33 < RangerZ|work> apparently it came as a shock to pretty much everyone
13:34 < RangerZ|work> even the DoD reporters hadn't even heard rumors about this until after it happened
13:34 < RangerZ|work> part of me wonders why we can't run our 'secret' documents like that...  "lets not really have 5 million people in the US with 'secret' clearance... (or w/e the exact # is now a days)
13:35 <@rattle> Article seems to indicate he got caught sticking his dick into someone in his chain of command.  Happens.  Not good.  He's whacked.  Very sad.
13:36 < RangerZ|work> yeah
13:46 <@rattle> Any sort of sexual relationship or harassment is totally not acceptable with anyone in your chain of command.  The military is probably making an example of him in that regard.
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14:44 < kamikazejoe> window show 4
14:44 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: https://archive.is/Eeh5V#selection-309.0-309.303
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17:19 <@oddball> Holy hell.  Multiple bombs, shootings, and at least one hostage situation in Paris. http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html
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18:21 <@Dagmar> HAHAHHAHHA
18:22 <@Dagmar> http://venturebeat.com/2015/11/13/pornhubs-traffic-dipped-significantly-the-day-fallout-4-came-out/
18:32 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: I saw that about an hour ago.
18:33 < _NSAKEY> That kind of data is always great to see.
18:33 <@Dagmar> Oh I think the best part is that there's a detectable "peak" which apparently shows that for many, "things" were only postponed for a few hours
18:46 < _NSAKEY> It's like they went, "I need to binge on porn before I have to go cold turkey due to playing fallout 4."
18:47 <@Dagmar> No, more like "Oof!  It's 4am!  I should rub one out and get to bed."
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20:45 <@Dagmar> ayecee++
20:46 <@Dagmar> For those wondering: <ayecee> b4b: css is elegant. js is an octopus made from nailing legs onto a dog.
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20:59 <@klixa> thats not even creative, since that is github;s mascot essentially, except on a cat
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21:35 -!- pi______2 [~pi@108.61.123.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
21:48 -!- pi______2 [~pi@c-73-216-103-1.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
21:48 -!- pi______2 is now known as Healix
21:49 -!- Healix [~pi@c-73-216-103-1.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
22:17 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600
22:17 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ
--- Log closed Fri Nov 13 23:20:53 2015
--- Log opened Fri Nov 13 23:21:02 2015
23:21 -!- Evilpig [~wilpig@96.80.184.101] has joined #se2600
23:21 -!- Irssi: #se2600: Total of 47 nicks [22 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 25 normal]
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23:21 -!- Irssi: Join to #se2600 was synced in 10 secs
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 14 00:00:44 2015