--- Log opened Sat Aug 01 00:00:11 2015
03:00 < aestetix> oh?
05:12 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: this does look cool
05:12 < aestetix> especially for presenting code
09:29 < NotLarry> ok, got up this morning  and windows 10 is installed my desktop.  Am I going to be more unhappy with this then windows 7?
09:41 <@Dagmar> Did you give it permission to do that?
09:42 < NotLarry> oh, yeah.
09:43 < NotLarry> My roommate keeps hosing his computer with protection programs (or maleware:).  The machine he is currently on meets the specs for windows 10 so I figure I would put him on it.  Thought while I was at it I would see if mine would install overnight.
09:44 < NotLarry> I guess I should go read up on the differences.
09:59 <@Dagmar> Tell him to try ignoring those nag screens trying to get him to install new video codecs
09:59 <@Dagmar> ...ubt it's really nice of you to be helping the mentally handicapped out personally like that
10:11 <@Dagmar> It's astonishing how far Anarchy Archade falls short of expectations
12:00 < aestetix> NotLarry: hi!
12:00 < aestetix> glad to see you back!
14:42 <@northrup> ehh.. Windows 10 is turning out to be better than Windows 8
14:43 <@northrup> and that's saying somehting as I generally have a hard time saying *anything* nice about a MS product
14:46 <@jb7od> I think 8 was like Millenium and Vista were- trying some wild pitch bullshit to see if any of it sticks.
14:46 <@northrup> Yeah - I think you're right
14:47 <@jb7od> I haven't gotten to play with it and all I've heard is that it's got a more normal desktop
14:47 <@northrup> I installed it on my work laptop, it does have a more desktop feel to it
14:48 <@jb7od> I wiiiiish we'd kept up our product assurance so I'd have one to play with. it'd have been so worth it for the money... :/
14:50 <@jb7od> ATT COMES ON MONDAY! I'm pumped. I can't waaaaait to get off this shitty 4.5 dns timeout bs.
14:56 <@jb7od> here's a question for just anybody in general- we had a meeting with some webdev vendors and we've been using linode for hosting and the lead dev guy kinda poo-pooed it (vs rackspace, etc) but personally, I've had a good experience with em- the very few things I've had to ask of them have been dealt with in short order and it operates within the expected confines of the package we have... so what's wrong with em? lol
14:58 <@jb7od> there is a little bit of a vest on the interest of hosting with that particular company, being that they sell it to us.
14:59 <@jb7od> I tried to ask what was wrong with linode and what I got was "I dunno. The name just makes me thing of a node" and "they're just virtual machines, right?"
15:02 <@northrup> poo-pooed linode?
15:03 <@jb7od> right? yes. yes he did. lol
15:04 <@jb7od> he also poo-pooed using meta name data in favor of other things which went unqualified.
15:05 <@northrup> oh good grief...
15:05 <@northrup> so what was his beef with Linode?
15:05 <@jb7od> I got the impression he was trying to make my skillset look dated.
15:06 <@jb7od> it makes him think of nodes and they run vms.
15:06 <@jb7od> lol
15:07 < _NSAKEY> northrup: Does Win10 come with OpenSSH by default, or is that something that everyone has to wait on?
15:08 <@northrup> _NSAKEY: still waiting, it's expected to be in an update to PowerShell by the end of quarter
15:08 <@northrup> _NSAKEY: didn't ship with Windows 10
15:09 <@northrup> jb7od: I think Linode is perfectly fine for what they offer and what you pay, never had a problem with them in almost 4 years.
15:09 <@jb7od> me neither in ~2 years.
15:10 <@jb7od> (plus it hosts griffin's craftbukkit)
15:12 <@jb7od> I also don't understand what guy was on about by saying that using meta name for your landing page was either old or somehow didn't work...
15:12 <@northrup> because the search bots don't crawl for that data? I have weblogs that beg to differ...
15:12 <@northrup> I hate asshats like that
15:12 <@jb7od> RIGHT?
15:13 <@jb7od> I mean, the printspooler in windows hasn't changed since 2001. old /= sucks.
15:14 <@northrup> old = you probably know how it works, and I can't upsell my services to your company.
15:14 <@jb7od> I liked these guys the best out of everybody that's tried to wine and dine us so far by a LONG shot, but I remain vexed at those two discussion items.
15:14 <@jb7od> that was what I took from it.
15:16 <@northrup> I was actually on a phone call the other day where our CIO was wanting to get advice from a VAR about load balancers
15:16 <@northrup> (never mind that he has a talent pool, he just is an ass and wont listen)
15:16 <@northrup> I got up and walked out of the meeting when the "expert" from the VAR said that he had never personally had experience with any
15:16 <@jb7od> the downpayment on the future "I told you so"
15:16 <@jb7od> ll
15:17 <@jb7od> (ahem)
15:17 <@jb7od> lol
15:17 <@northrup> hardware based NLB, but that he worked a project one time where he had installed the OS and helped get them cabled, so he could help us
15:17 <@northrup> and our CIO was all about licking his balls
15:21 <@jb7od> but yeah, I liked those guys the most out of all the vendors we've shopped, but it did make my spidey sense tingle when those two things came up.
15:21 <@northrup> up next on my grip list - employees / engineers who set passwords to things and don't communicate what they are and quit.
15:21 <@northrup> fucking irresponsible assholes
15:22 <@jb7od> yeah, that's exit material for sure.
15:24 <@jb7od> shit like that led to me including salapasswd on bootdisks and loading up ophcrack, etc.
15:26 <@northrup> Yeah... I think I'm going to have to end up doing somehting similar...
15:34 <@jb7od> Hell yeah man! ;D get em!
15:36 <@jb7od> How are the constraints about grey hat stuff like that? I'd imagine pretty stringent.
15:37 <@northrup> Well - we're talking a Cisco device... so as long as you have physical access you are never more than one power cycle away from p0wning the device
15:37 <@jb7od> you don't have to have that dumbass light blue cable? lol
15:37 <@northrup> the shit thing here is it's an HA pair and the other device is in Tulsa, so I'm having to get an engineer to leave his nice Saturday and go to the DC
15:37 <@northrup> Oh yeah.. the Cisco serial roll over cable
15:37 <@jb7od> (I only call it dumbass because I can never find one when I need one lol)
15:38 <@jb7od> ugh... :/ trashin a saturday.
15:40 <@jb7od> SHIT!
15:40 <@jb7od> Stell just found her Chocktaw ancestors on the Dawes Rolls.
15:42 <@northrup> Whoa..
15:43 <@jb7od> she just left the room happily crying to inform her folks...
15:44 <@jb7od> I can't remember what you get for that but yeah- 40 acres and a mule here we come lol
15:45 <@northrup> she going to apply for a Certificat of Degree of Indian Blood?
15:46 <@jb7od> if we can divine that she's 1/16th...
15:51 <@jb7od> well, scratch that. I think we just have to apply to find out- it's different per tribe, 1/16th is cherokee (which she has always been told she was and yet never found an ancestor- we've got some unlearning to do lol)
16:19 -!- k3ymkr [~KeyMaker@ec2-52-6-16-39.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #se2600
16:26 <@northrup> so ATT coming in on Monday, what speed are you moving up to?
16:26 <@jb7od> 20mb
16:27 <@jb7od> up from this shitty overpriced not-getting-it-done 4.5
16:29 <@northrup> DAMN
16:29 <@northrup> that'll feel like a major increase in speed
16:36 <@jb7od> Hell yes it will. I'm pumped. We get dns timeouts when everybody is on and humpin, backups take all night, etc.
16:38 <@jb7od> it was different when I started and the userbase was more internally focused on their financial db, etc, but as it's grown and everybody wants to build a wordpress site and embed video and check it on their iphone has increased the footprint dramatically. we STAY pegged at 100% utilization.
16:41 <@northrup> damn!
17:01 <@Dagmar> Add a local caching resolver first thing
17:01 <@Dagmar> That'll help with some of the timeouts
17:04 <@northrup> I guess I just take for granted that everyone runs a caching resolver on their side
17:05 <@northrup> Hell, I run web caching at my remote offices so that static images and content only has to be loaded once locally (so long as the cache ttl is good)
17:25 <@jb7od> Dagmar: It's one of those things that wasn't a problem until it was and only obvious after we hired on about 4 people whose specific roles were internet-intensive. Our crew is pretty small- 35 users.
17:26 <@jb7od> I'll take countermeasures if need still exists, but I don't think it will.
17:28 <@Dagmar> Just scrounge up something you can stuff 8Gb of RAM into with a couple of NICs and you can put up a caching proxy using transparent squid
17:28 <@Dagmar> No user-end configuration necessary
17:29 <@northrup> transparent squid is pretty awesome...
17:29 <@northrup> sucks for things like FB and what not that have gone to https
17:29 <@northrup> but for other things, pretty good
17:30 <@Dagmar> It's breathtaking how much it speeds up sites that send proper expiry data
17:31 <@jb7od> I hear ya, but in the non-profit arena, having something to stuff 8gb in or even having the 8gb to stuff in anything is a little daunting.
17:31 <@Dagmar> Well, 8Gb would let you cache 80Gb to disk
17:31 <@Dagmar> You can do less.  I wouldn't much bother with less than 4Gb RAM tho
17:33 <@Dagmar> The useful thing about transparent proxying is that if you build it from cheap shit and it fails, you can jsut take it out of the network path entirely
17:38 <@jb7od> That's true. It'd be a harmless way to attempt to improve. For what they were paying for the 4.5Mb, it would have just prolonged the "legacy" account. Windstream was charging us 2-300 more a month for the 4.5 than the 20mb fiber is (ahem)
17:38 <@jb7od> which, to my mind, would have been a bandaid on a gunshot wound.
17:42 <@northrup> Yeah, I'm all for the upgrading of the circuit
17:44 <@jb7od> not to mention last year we had four complete outages, during which ATT was the actual last mile provider, so there was a significant lag in getting anything handled, so cutting out the middle man is overdue.
17:45 <@jb7od> and with that savings, THEN I can get 8Gb ram and something to put it in. ;D
17:45 <@northrup> :D
17:46 <@northrup> to Dagmar's point though - it is amazing how many organizations will cut off their nose to spite their face all in the name of "cost savings"
17:46 <@jb7od> oh that's totally true.
17:46 <@jb7od> that was popular at sqd.
17:47 <@jb7od> but the windstream situation is a lubeless buttrape.
17:47 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: We're going to have to have a little talk about your Clicker Heroes problem, man
17:47 <@northrup> Windstream is such an loose/loose situation
17:50 <@jb7od> I guess at some point in history being a mitm isp was a good idea, but as the Bell empire rises from the grave, maybe notsomuch...
17:50 <@Evilpig> so they're really loose?
17:50 <@Evilpig> do they just not tigheten the nuts on the dishes enough?  what makes them so loose?
17:50 <@jb7od> HAHA! actually, based on reports from other customers from the farmer's market- Yep. They'll fuck anybody.
17:52 <@northrup> doh.. toooooo many things going on, spelling apparently had a low value in my stack
17:55 <@jb7od> they had one outage last year that took a couple of days that they ultimately blamed on a layer 3 switch somewhere out of town that affected the eastern half of the US. I took it upon myself to call em and say I had to provide a root cause to my management (which was social engineering)
17:59 <@northrup> we used to have Windstream in Charlotte, NC. The company we bought had them as a provider when we took them over.
18:00 <@northrup> providing both telephones and data. They were pissed that we were dropping them and purposefully would not release our DID range
18:01 <@northrup> had to threaten legal action before they turned loose of them
18:01 <@jb7od> in our situation, originally they had nuvox which windstream aquired. because it was a "legacy account" they just kept charging what they charged and there was a lot of information they couldn't provide, especially on the telephone side.
18:02 <@jb7od> for example, our contract included two 800 numbers, but we only ever had and knew about one. The other that they plugged in as our contractural second number was *actually* the 800 for some tire store in michigan. :/
18:04 <@jb7od> no telling how many original nuvox accounts are in the same sort of disarray
18:09 <@northrup> Ummm
18:10 <@northrup> were they billing you guys for the toll charges on the number?
18:11 <@jb7od> yeah. they've since reissued it, but it wasn't a problem because they didn't even know they had it.
18:17 <@jb7od> (I said they needed to ask for a refund retroactive to the double-issue of the number, but alas)
18:22 <@jb7od> Oh meaning did they charge us for their calls, no-
18:22 <@jb7od> somebody just pasted a non-working dupe in our account details
18:22 <@jb7od> meaning we never had a second 800
18:23 <@northrup> Oh!
18:23 <@northrup> heh
18:23 <@northrup> that's what I was more looking after
18:23 <@northrup> man, we had XO for the longest time for voice... they're OK for data, for shit for voice service
18:25 <@jb7od> anybody got any old cisco ip phones they'd like to donate? I'll get your ass a tax letter.
18:26 <@jb7od> in fact, anybody with any hw to retire that I want can get a tax letter. lol
18:28 <@northrup> Hmm... actually we moved from Cisco to Avaya, I think we've still got some cisco ip phones hanging around
18:28 <@northrup> let me look
18:28 <@jb7od> that'd be dreamy!
18:29 <@jb7od> we're on this super old fucked up isa card having intertel system somebody donated.
18:30 <@northrup> what phone system do you have?
18:30 <@jb7od> Intertel.
18:30 <@northrup> Wow... Cisco phones work with Intertel or are you trying to plan a move to something else?
18:31 <@jb7od> I'd like to get us out of the intertel altogether.
18:31 <@jb7od> I guess that means I'd need whatever pbx or cards or whatever too.
18:32 <@jb7od> (Intertel works with nothing)
18:35 <@northrup> how many PRI lines do you have?
18:35 <@jb7od> I'm wanting to say six but I don't think they're all in use.
18:36 <@northrup> damn man... one PRI is 24 channels...
18:37 <@northrup> that's 144 channels you guys got if true...
18:41 <@jb7od> it may be 4. I'm gonna jump on and see
18:48 <@northrup> man - what do you guys use that many phone lines for?
18:51 <@jb7od> I'm lying. I bet it's one, there's 6 trunks though.
18:52 <@northrup> A, so a partial PRI with 6 channels maybe?
18:54 <@jb7od> probably. the story of the phone system is long and stupid. Historically it's been the plowshare of Operations (who also does ADT, the elevator, and the toilets) they outsourced it to SeTel until they quit supporting the Axxess, then they got a tech willing to moonlight and work on it, but it's stupider than stupid.
18:55 <@jb7od> we discovered that about the 800 number by trying to figure out what in the hell is going on because nobody could answer anyhting about it, up to and including the telco
19:03 <@jb7od> There's a whole other currently unused line though that the mayors office ran a disaster relief switchboard out of a conference room downstairs during the flood on-
19:04 <@northrup> Maybe an Asterisk system would do you then
19:04 <@northrup> you could use the Cisco phones, dump Intertel
19:04 <@northrup> and it's free
19:04 <@northrup> and configurable
19:05 <@jb7od> I've really looked at it- I sure the hell have.
19:06 <@jb7od> It's been a couple of years because I was shooed away from it by Operations, but after ATT I think apathy is going to leave room for progress.
19:06 <@Dagmar> ppPass a rumor around that the office will be switching to Nokia candybar phones to save money
19:08 <@northrup> I'll give my candybar phone one thing, it lasted for almost four days with a single charge and it I'm pretty sure it was indestructable
19:08 <@jb7od> HAHAHA! I can get an instant fear-response rumor started very easily by threat of changing anything including brand of dry erase marker.
19:33 <@Dagmar> northrup: Yeah I still have my last Nokia
19:33 <@Dagmar> In an absolute pinch if my primary phone dies and I can't get the Motorola Razr running, I can still use it on Cricket or something
19:34 <@Dagmar> I push it's battery back up to 60% each new year's
19:37 <@jb7od> There are scarcely words for how little I like the Intertel 8.201 db programmer. >:\
19:39 <@jb7od> there are a total of 7 trunks. I thought there were 6 but this explains a caller ID mystery I had a few weeks ago- #7 seldom ends up being used by the system for reasons unknown, and there's an space for an 8th but it's not in use.
20:20 <@jb7od> You can't tell it to look at it from the outside but apparently the cards are out of order. :| looks like maybe the previous owners had to expand it at some point.
20:21 <@northrup> Bwahahaha... I love that nobody ever labels anything
20:21 <@northrup> or makes notes
20:24 <@jb7od> Oh man, this thing is the very definition of lostware both hard and soft.
20:25 <@jb7od> There's some wrong IP assignments on the inside for the management interface, which might explain why it drops connections when you're working on it sometimes.
20:25 <@jb7od> I know for a fact dst doesn't work.
20:39 <@jb7od> northrup: what's good in the way of cards/cabinets? Coming out of the intertel would mean replacing it.
21:41 <@northrup> depends, if you're going to go the Asterisk route, the Digium cards are rock solid and any linux box will do
21:53 <@jb7od> That's the hypothetical plan.
22:01 <@jb7od> I don't know if they'll bite though. They're ichange resistant.
23:11 <@northrup> heh... most places are
--- Log closed Sun Aug 02 00:00:13 2015