--- Log opened Fri Jul 17 00:00:54 2015
00:04 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: "On college campuses, trigger warnings are being used to alert students to any material they might read, see or hear that might upset them"
00:06 < _NSAKEY> There are no words for this.
00:09 <@Dagmar> _NSAKEY: Yes, we would have been fast on our way to being a totalitarian utopia
00:10 < _NSAKEY> I'm just saying, if they had been allowed to burn 60 mile wide paths through the south for a little while longer, things might be more ok.
00:13 < aestetix> I should just get a tshirt that says "trigger warning"
00:13 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: Yes, you should. I should tell ben or Elonka that we need to sell shirts like that at PN19.
00:14 < _NSAKEY> https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/621515129486745600
00:14 < PigBot`> Title: The New York Times on Twitter: "The scene as President Obamas motorcade arrived at his hotel in Oklahoma City tonight. Photo by @dougmillsnyt http://t.co/L7e9TCrOPQ" (at twitter.com)
00:14 <@Dagmar> Cafe Press, yo.
00:14 < aestetix> hmm
00:14 < _NSAKEY> For anyone who needs a refresher, this image shows Oklahoma's status during the Civil War: http://www.historyplace.com/civilwar/cwar-pix/civmap.gif
00:15 <@Dagmar> The heritage folks are _not_ going to give that up
00:15 <@Dagmar> The people trying to shout them down are just wasting their time
00:15 < _NSAKEY> It's just funny because there's no way around the fact that those people are racist jackasses.
00:15 < _NSAKEY> Oklahoma was part of the western territories during the Civil War.
00:16 < aestetix> hmm
00:16 < aestetix> I wonder if I should mentor someone in public speaking
00:16 < aestetix> although the last guy I did that with wound up drunk and puking outside while I carried the talk
00:17 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: And teach them how to trigger each and every member of the audience?
00:18 <@oddball> Damnit... pulled in the driveway and watched my fuel guage go from about an eighth of a tank to full.  Pretty sure there were no magical pixies adding fuel to my car.
00:18 < aestetix> oddball: now you get to watch the odometer
00:18 <@oddball> _NSAKEY: That's called "engaging the audience." :p
00:19 <@oddball> aestetix: Or pray that I make it to the gas station around the corner tomorrow, and then to the shop to get it fixed.
00:20 <@oddball> Although, the the fixing part will probably wait until next week, just for the sake of getting it in.
00:20 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: if you want a tshirt for PN, trigger warning with crazybitch's face
00:21 < _NSAKEY> It seems that at this point I'm the only person Amber didn't piss off, and I've got the feeling that's only because I'm too new.
00:22 < aestetix> She didn't piss me off, but I pissed her off :p
00:22 < _NSAKEY> Although from actually talking to her face to face, she doesn't seem as bad as she's been made out to be.
00:22 < _NSAKEY> Make of that what you will.
00:23 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: You probably piss a lot of people off by consuming oxygen.
00:25 <@oddball> Yeah, she does a good job of hiding her bat shit when face to face.
00:25 <@oddball> Well, unless you get a few drinks into her, as we found out that one time.
00:26 < _NSAKEY> The only time I saw her get really weird was that time at Mojo's, after the board member vote.
00:27 < _NSAKEY> When she tweeted at Dagmar to either make out with her or get out of her twitter timeline, then she sat and stared at him all dreamily, hoping to catch his reaction to the tweet.
00:27 <@oddball> Ah, I guess you weren't there for the meeting where she got the employees of JJ's rather upset with us due to her rather loudly talking about how she had been raped.
00:27 < _NSAKEY> No, that was before my time.
00:27 < aestetix> ....
00:28 <@oddball> Can't remember if that was the same meeting that Peaches stormed out of early beacuse of same.
00:28 < _NSAKEY> What I heard about last summer was that at one meeting, she got drunk and started running her hand's through Dagmar's hair or something.
00:28 < aestetix> That seems like something she should share with a therapist, not se2600
00:28 < _NSAKEY> Then I was told at the next meeting, Dagmar and RangerZ trolled her super hard to her face about rape.
00:28 < _NSAKEY> I guess she had brought it up at the previous meeting, I don't know.
00:29 <@oddball> Pretty sure you had started coming to meetings by then, but it might have been one you missed.  It wasn't that long ago.
00:29 < _NSAKEY> oddball: My first proper meeting was the December one, in which the elections happened.
00:29 < _NSAKEY> I've been to every one since then except the June meeting, because I was too sick to drive.
00:29 <@oddball> Yeah... I think it was this past spring.  Could be wrong.
00:31 <@oddball> I didn't realize that the employees were upset with us until later.  I believe someone tried to say that "a few of us" were being to rowdy for the place and was afraid that we were going to get tossed.
00:34 < aestetix> http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/16/hillary_clinton_got_heckled_by_climate_activists_at_a_new_hampshire_town.html
01:19 < aestetix> http://www.buzzfeed.com/alexkantrowitz/mark-zuckerbergs-promise-on-facebooks-real-name-policy-doesn#.kc1XXzAywz
01:19 < PigBot`> Title: Mark Zuckerbergs Promise On Facebooks Real Name Policy Doesnt Match Reality - BuzzFeed News (at www.buzzfeed.com)
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07:31 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
07:31  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
07:31 <@Dolemite> Dammit, I just took a shower!
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09:51 < _NSAKEY> Dolemite: You'll be scrubbing the aestetix off for most of next week.
09:52 <@Dagmar> I just dropped a bomb on FB, figuratively speaking
09:52 <@Dagmar> The SJWs out there can suck it
09:52 <@Dagmar> They won't even be smart enough to follow along.
09:52 <@Dagmar> ...so fuck them anyway.
09:53 <@Dagmar> I'm going to have to break the thing apart later and hone it further, but i'm pretty sure I've managed to logically define a requirement that authority and responsbility must exist in equal parts for any relationship to be considered fair.
09:54 < aestetix> what did you say?
09:54 <@Dagmar> Several paragraphs.
09:55 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: Here's a riddle for you.
09:55 < _NSAKEY> In what universe is it acceptable to have a VPS service cut off a month after you've paid it late?
09:55 < _NSAKEY> Keep in mind, the stated reason is, I quote, "you paid late."
09:56 <@Dagmar> I would say "acceptable" isn't the term, but "insane" can definitely apply
09:56 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: do they have a backup?
09:56 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: It was just a tor bridge, so I don't care about any of the data on it.
09:56 < aestetix> as long as you get it back when you pay, seems fine
09:56 < aestetix> oh
09:56 <@Dagmar> That's basically terminating a customer relationship without valid cause
09:56 < _NSAKEY> The outsourced tech support is all, "we can turn vps on only."
09:57 <@Dagmar> LIke, "We don't actually need to do business"
09:57 < _NSAKEY> Here's one of my better replies to the guy, after he told me that:
09:57 < _NSAKEY> "I'm in the repossession business, and if I picked up someone's car after they paid their car loan, I would be in six or seven figures worth of deep shit.
09:57 < _NSAKEY> If your people knew how to read, you'd see where you guys dropped the ball. I fucked up by not paying on time, but paid a 75 cent late fee on that invoice as a consequence. That seemed more than fair to me. Where things got stupid is the part where your company cut my off almost a month after the invoice was paid. That's utter bullshit, so it's refund time. $6.88 seems fair, since that means you keep the l
09:57 < _NSAKEY> ate fee and the money for the 1 month ...
09:57 < _NSAKEY> ... of actual service I got before some retard on your end went "DURR HURR GUYS WE GOT THIS GUY TO PAY A LATE FEE BUT I'M GONNA CUT HIM OFF ANYWAY THAT'LL LEARN EM." If this isn't resolved to my liking by Monday, I'm opening a dispute with Paypal."
09:57 <@Dagmar> You paid a _late fee_ and they still terminated your service?
09:57 <@Dagmar> They fucked up.
09:57 < _NSAKEY> YES.
09:58 < _NSAKEY> A full month later.
09:58 <@Dagmar> They _owe_ you now
09:58 < _NSAKEY> That's what I'm saying.
09:58 < _NSAKEY> I interpreted it the same way.
09:58 <@Dagmar> If you paid a late fee they can't even justify turning off the service because they are somehow in the hole because of you
09:58 < _NSAKEY> They're essentially telling me to jump into the nearest bonfire, so I want my money back.
09:58 < _NSAKEY> Want to know what's really warped?
09:58 <@Dagmar> They've literally ended the relationship without justification or reason
09:59 < _NSAKEY> My VPS is in Atlanta. Their uptime page says that Atlanta is down.
09:59 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: you're a repo man?
09:59 <@Dagmar> Well, if this is how they handle their affairs, why are you surprised that they've got entire POPs down?
10:00 < _NSAKEY> It's just really funny that the area they've listed as down for weeks just so happens to be the area where my service was shitcanned without a good reason.
10:00 <@Dagmar> These are people who clearly aren't interested in doing buisness to make money.
10:00 <@Dagmar> You should find someone else who is
10:00 < _NSAKEY> The ToS pretty much says that I agree to no refunds, but I'm still going to rake them over the coals.
10:00 < _NSAKEY> They got bought a few weeks after I paid by New Wave NetConnect.
10:00 <@Dagmar> I woulnd't bother asking for money back if the amount of service and amount of payment are currently equal
10:00 < _NSAKEY> They have an LLC in New York.
10:00 < _NSAKEY> I will so send off $5 for the incorporation paperwork and post it on Rip Off Report if they give me much more shit.
10:01 <@Dagmar> They've just ended the relationship prematurely, to their own defecit
10:02 < _NSAKEY> Yeah, I don't know why they think I'd WANT to continue using their service.
10:02 <@Dagmar> aestetix: The chain of argumentation may be of particular interest to you, because you can use it to illuminate the gaps in various bits of SJW "logic"
10:03 <@Dagmar> Particularly, it shows the argument that all white people are racist because some white people are racist to be broken crapola
10:04 <@Dagmar> ...although frankly I'm having a hard time not just seeing the people who make that argument as little more than self-righteous assholes
10:04 <@oddball> Dagmar: but, clearly, you're racist.
10:04 <@Dagmar> Just because one combines multiple fallacies together to make a really confusing statement, doesn't mean they're not still committing a whole stack of fallacies
10:04 < _NSAKEY> I'm probably about to reply to this ticket with a request to escalate and a link to this, as a way to draw a comparison to the level of custome service I'm getting: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/5954
10:05 < PigBot`> Title: Curious George Disc. Acid (at www.newgrounds.com)
10:05 <@Dagmar> oddball: That's why it pisses me off to even hear that charge leveled at me.
10:05 <@Dagmar> At the bare minimum it is incredibly hypocritical.
10:06 <@oddball> Oh, and remember, only white people can be racist... and all white people are racist.
10:06 <@Dagmar> _NSAKEY: I'd just ask them if their new business model is that they're really not worrying themselves too much about whether or not they are actually doing any business.
10:07 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: The hell of this is, it's over a $7.50 a year VPS.
10:07 <@Dagmar> oddball: It's practically a self-defeating position for them
10:07 <@Dagmar> When you read the post you'll see why
10:08 <@Dagmar> If I put that valid chain of logic up against some of the things people are passing off as "logic", people will just get butthurt and their brains turn off
10:08 <@Dagmar> I've just got to wait for it so soak in and they see it for themselves.
10:09 <@Dagmar> In every other instance in our society where authority and responsibility are not equal, we call it "unfair".
10:09 <@oddball> I saw your "responsibility" post on FB, but didn't see exactly what it was leveled at.
10:09 <@Dagmar> It's not leveled at anything in specific.
10:09 <@oddball> ah, ok
10:09 <@Dagmar> It's just demonstratably true
10:09 <@oddball> yep
10:09 <@Dagmar> Why is slavery wrong?  Because it's extremely unfair.
10:10 <@Dagmar> The slaveowner has all the authority and virtually no responsibility
10:10 <@oddball> Oh, sorry... I thing I'm suposed to scream "check your privilege" at you, or something.
10:10 <@Dagmar> The only other place in our society where that happens is a parent<->child relationship
10:11 <@Dagmar> ...and that's because the children are considered to be (while they are children) inferior members of the society because of their age
10:11 <@Dagmar> ...and when they grow up and become adults, that generally ends.
10:12 <@Dagmar> The practice of slavery artifically devalues the contributions of the slave as a member of society.
10:13 <@Dagmar> This is why I put in the bit explaining why it's wrong and unfair to expect the other members of any group to accept responsibility for just one of it's members, when they collectively lack _any_ authority over that member beyond declaring them _not_ to be a member of the group.
10:14 <@Dagmar> That wanders dangerously close to a no true scotsman argument, but I think the difference between the two is clear enough.
10:14 <@Dagmar> Hah I bet NewGrounds is shitting their pants right now, by the way
10:15 <@oddball> Unfortunately, those that need to know this will either 1. not read that post, or 2. say "yes!  Absolutely!" then turn around and call you a racist because of the color of your skin.
10:15 <@Dagmar> So much of their content is Flash, and flash is emitting a death rattle
10:15 <@oddball> heh... hadn't thought about that.
10:15 <@Dagmar> oddball: ...and the next time I hear that crap, I'm going to refer them back to that post and ask them to explain their contradicting statements.
10:16 <@Dagmar> IK'm fucking tired of trying to explain to people that they're just not thinking
10:16 <@oddball> Although, I think it's still going to be a while before Flash actually dies.
10:17 <@oddball> Oh, they'll refuse to see an issue.  Apparently there are some *schools* that are actually teaching that you can't be racist to white people.
10:17 <@Dagmar> That is a very _specific_ fallacy, actually.
10:17 <@oddball> yep
10:17 <@Dagmar> I'll find the fallacy ref for that
10:18 <@oddball> I would think that the fallacy would be self-evident, but... just talk to Corydon, and he'll turn blue in the face defending that stance.
10:18 <@Dagmar> It was missing from the set before, but in the latest collection of 52, it's in there
10:20 <@Dagmar> it's the one where a statement can have two meanings and they shift from one meaning to the other freely
10:20 <@Dagmar> Sociologists have a different definition of "racism" which has a much, much lower threshold
10:21 <@Dagmar> It is technical jargon at that point
10:21 <@Dagmar> Respectable sociologists understand the difference between the two
10:21 <@Dagmar> They don't confuse or conflate them
10:26 <@Dagmar> Okay... it's an equivocation fallacy
10:26 <@Dagmar> http://i.imgur.com/clu11gx.jpg
10:28 <@Dagmar> It's a sneaky fuckin' stunt to pull because the result definitely violates the rule of authority and responsibility in equal amounts that the _rest_ of our society is based on
10:28 <@Dagmar> Here's the full 52 set
10:28 <@Dagmar> Im sure there will be more forthcoming
10:29 <@Dagmar> I'm no longer going to be wasting any more of my time arguing with idiots about this sort of thing.  I'm just throwing fallacy ref memes at them from now on unless there is a _damn good_ reason for doing otherwise
10:33 <@Dagmar> That FB post also represents why it's a lucky thing I just don't bite some people's faces right off
10:33 <@Dagmar> They _never_ sit down and try and think very hard about anything
10:38 <@Dagmar> Went by bongo yesterday by the way
10:38 <@Dagmar> I got unexpected props from someone over something I'd said like a year ago that apparently stuck with him
10:39 <@Dagmar> To a hipster: "I got dressed in the dark this morning because I'm a goth and it's a thing I can do.  What's *your* excuse?"
10:39 <@oddball> heh
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10:52 <@Dagmar> In my defense, that particular hipster had just gone too far.  It looked like he'd dressed himself from a box of donated clothing that had already been picked through by the homeless.
10:53 <@Dagmar> Ill-fitting, mismatched, with worn out, weather inappropriate pieces.
10:53 <@Dagmar> There are limits to what can be called "eccentric" without just lying
10:55 <@jb7od> I just can't wait for the next 10 years when that sort of costume rebellion gets to be old enough to where those guys end up getting made fun of by their kids in popular media.
10:55 <@jb7od> "My dad... Man. This guy used to wear...."
10:56 <@jb7od> beard with a pbr tied up in it with rubber bands and shit?
10:56 <@jb7od> lol
11:04 <@jb7od> It makes me fear for the future of the species sort of. I never imagine the dinnertable conversation of "When I first saw your father, I knew he was the one for me; he didn't give even the slighest half-shit about his appearance whatsoever..."
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11:37 <@Dagmar> Really, Adobe should just change the licencing on Flash
11:38 <@Dagmar> It would be a lot easier to explain if the licence was time-limited to only 48 hours.
11:47 <@oddball> ha!
11:47 <@oddball> I'm still not onboard with the people claiming that this is the death of Flash.
11:47 <@opticron> they only wish it was
11:48 <@Dagmar> Dude, Firefox is about to roll out a configuration change that will require you to explcitly _enable_ each bit of flash
11:49 <@brimstone> so... 7% of the market is affected?
11:50 <@brimstone> ipad and iphone users consuming 68% of the marke already don't use flash
11:50 <@brimstone> this is the death of flash like java applets have died
11:51 <@oddball> And they will roll it back when "normal" folks that are still using Firefox either stop using it or bitch that their Flash games no longer work.
11:51 <@Dagmar> You make the mistake of thinking people care about apple users
11:51 <@brimstone> only shitty sites and software will continue to use them
11:51 <@oddball> so... 80% of the internet?
11:52 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: You make the mistake of forgetting that Chrome has flash by default.
11:52 <@oddball> And there's the thing that folks have become used to creating a different version of the site for mobile users.
11:52 <@Dagmar> Chrome maintains it's own version of the library
11:53 < _NSAKEY> It's also sandboxed.
11:53 <@Dagmar> Very much so
11:53 < _NSAKEY> Still, Flash will take a long time to properly kill.
11:53 < _NSAKEY> It still needs to die an unceremonious and swift death, but that's just not going to happen.
11:54 < _NSAKEY> If Google disabled it entirely and refused to support it, that would shave 5-10 years off its lifespan, easily.
11:54 < _NSAKEY> Then again, we still have things that use COBOL all these years later (I'm looking at you, OPM).
11:56 < aestetix> vagina
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16:47 <@Dagmar> Drat it.
16:47 <@Dagmar> There are some parts of the Google Services framework that are realy, really gnomic
16:49 <@Dagmar> This damn Galaxy S3 has basically refused to come back up in the Play Store since i wiped it
16:49 <@Dagmar> I begin to think the issue is that with airplane mode on, it won't even look for a SIM card
17:13 <@Dagmar> What the
17:13 <@Dagmar> Okay.  This is truly a first
17:13 <@Dagmar> http://www.scrippsmedia.com/newschannel5/now-trending/Home-intruder-demands-victim-to-smoke-weed-with-him-316270721.html
17:13 < PigBot`> Title: Home intruder demands victim smoke weed with him - NewsChannel5.com (at www.scrippsmedia.com)
17:15 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: Maybe he has no friends, and just wanted to burn one with somebody.
17:15 < _NSAKEY> Maybe he's too socially awkward to know how these sorts of things are supposed to work.
17:15 <@Dagmar> ...but why the weapon?
17:16 <@Dagmar> I mean, the statistics on it are such that if the guy said, "No, I don't wanna" he could just go next door.
17:16 < _NSAKEY> Speaking of weird news, did you see or hear about this? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/15/april-lee-yates_n_7804388.html
17:16 < PigBot`> Title: Diner Expects 'Jesus' To Pay Buffet Bill: Police (at www.huffingtonpost.com)
17:16 <@Dagmar> Repeating this more than three times is _highly_ unlikely to have even been necessary
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20:51 <@Dagmar> "Added InsultAmount to goblinsettings.xml for sending insults.  Defines which items can be sent and the severity."
20:51 <@Dagmar> Damn.  No more pacifying goblins into skipping attacks by sending them tons of goblin-meat sandwiches
21:25 <@Dagmar> DAYUM.  Tesla's upgrade is nuts
21:26 <@Dagmar> 0-60 in 2.8 seconds
21:26 <@Dagmar> I'm not sure I'd want to be in one doing that.
21:36 <@opticron> yeah...requires an equipment upgrade this time, though
21:37 <@opticron> last time it was just software
21:38 <@Dagmar> Just $10,000.
21:38 <@Dagmar> To make the thing one of the fastest cars in the world.
21:55 < aestetix> Dagmar: http://www.buzzfeed.com/alexkantrowitz/facebook-builds-a-rough-road-back-for-those-booted-by-its-re
21:55 < PigBot`> Title: Facebook Builds A Rough Road Back For Those Booted By Its Real Name Policy - BuzzFeed News (at www.buzzfeed.com)
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23:29 < _NSAKEY> "(it’s harder to call someone a motherfucker when your own name is attached to the post — just ask Reddit)."
23:29 < _NSAKEY> I'm going to dispute that, and so would the guy I've been yelling at from the VPS company.
--- Log closed Sat Jul 18 00:00:55 2015