--- Log opened Sun May 17 00:00:50 2015
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00:35 <@Evilpig> guess I best get to sleep
00:42 <@Dickie> NO ONE CARES
00:43  * Evilpig pees on Dickie's foot
00:43 <@Dickie> Neat. Usually that costs extra.
00:44 <@Evilpig> holy shit!
00:44 <@Evilpig> Dagmar! when you see orphan black from tonight... pay close attention to the blonde
00:45 <@Evilpig> I wasn't looking closely and I heard it.  looked up...  hot damn!
01:03 <@Evilpig> https://twitter.com/Wilpig/status/599802288748797952
01:03 < PigBot`> Title: Wilpig on Twitter: "Surprise special guest on Orphan Black tonight. So hot... http://t.co/uMj1gN8qLW" (at twitter.com)
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01:43 <@Dagmar> LadFuck.
01:44 <@Dagmar> Forgot to schedule it
01:44 <@Dagmar> W0000
01:44 <@Dagmar> Still cute as hell
02:43 <@sync350> How’s it going guys
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03:32 < RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjDJNwAANwA
03:32 < RangerZ> thats damn impressive for OP
03:32 < RangerZ>  Titan X & 18 Core Xeon CPU in a Shoebox
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04:53 <@Dagmar> Wilbur: You didn't tell me it was 180-proof fanservice
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10:29 < aestetix> well
10:29 < aestetix> I just gave a talk to germans about what life in the US is like
10:29 < aestetix> needles to say they almost did not believe it because it is so bad compared to how things are here
10:42 <@Evilpig> your viewpoint was skewed by the bay area as well though
10:44 < aestetix> yes
10:51 <@Evilpig> Dagmar: if I had, someone might accuse me of spoilers
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13:55 <@Dagmar> There's plenty of parts of hte US where it's just as bad as there
13:55 <@Dagmar> I'm still reeling over the details on Baltimore
13:55 <@Dagmar> It's a wonder that place didn't just get burned to the ground
13:56 <@Dagmar> Basiclaly, if the Baltimore cops arrested you this year, there was an 80% chance you'd wind up in the hospital before you could go to the jail
13:56 <@Dagmar> They've been engaging in *that much* brutality
13:57 <@Dagmar> That's no londer "a few bad apples"
13:57 <@Dagmar> That's an entrenched... fuck it, fire every last motherfucker
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14:41 <@oddball> But remember: the cops are the only ones that should be trusted to handle guns.
14:45 < RangerZ> Dagmar: baltimore DID burn to the ground
14:45 < RangerZ> in the ....what was it 70s... the police fire bombed a few city blocks to get rid of a black group that they didn't like
14:47 <@Dagmar> No, I mean burn *all* of it
14:48 <@Dagmar> Somebusinesses got burned
14:48 <@Dagmar> They probably should have burned a police station or three
14:48 <@Dagmar> Cuz damn... 2100 arrests that had to go to the hospital instead of the jail
14:48 <@Dagmar> This is not a _small_ amount of brutality anymore.  It's become the new standarad
14:49 < RangerZ> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE sorry, it was philly
14:49 < PigBot`> Title: MOVE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
14:49 < RangerZ> and it 65 houses b/c of a police raid
14:50 <@Dagmar> That's 2100 assaults _this year_
14:50 <@Dagmar> Entire departments should be getting fired and replaced over that
14:51 < RangerZ> the fucking police have changed since 2001
14:51 <@Dagmar> The fuckin' army probably manages to make enemy captures with fewer injuries
14:52 < RangerZ> now the only people who join are family lifers, and people who _want_ to bash skulls
14:52 < RangerZ> and lifers don't say shit against "fellow cops"
14:52 <@Dagmar> Still, when the standard for an arrest switches to "once you get out of the hospital"... fuck that noise
14:52 <@Dagmar> It's time to tear some shit down
14:54 < RangerZ> the _real_ problem is that we don't have community policing anymore
14:54 < RangerZ> cops don't come from where they "protect"
14:55 < RangerZ> and we disqualify people for police if they were caught with pot
14:58 < RangerZ> I'm getting to the point where I think we shouldn't have 'patrol cars'
14:59 < RangerZ> but something closer to japan's boxes where police always sit
14:59 < RangerZ> one per block or two
15:00 < RangerZ> have the same cops patrol by foot around the same _exact_ spots (near where they live)
15:00 <@Dagmar> It's essentially an occupying force like that
15:01 < RangerZ> .... and we have something different now... ?
15:01 <@Dagmar> I meant the way it's going in Baltimore
15:01 < RangerZ> ahh, yeah
15:02 < RangerZ> ohh it definitely _is_ that way
15:04 < RangerZ> hell.... clev has about the same issue
15:04 < RangerZ> and they got caught calling one of their police stations a "forward operating base"
15:04 < RangerZ> b/c it was in the center of a black neighborhood
15:08 < RangerZ> police cameras will help
15:08 < RangerZ> but I don't know if I _like_ the fact that it _needs_ to go that far
15:09 <@Dagmar> The police cameras will continue to be useless as long as officers are allowed to turn them off
15:09 <@Dagmar> Thinking they'll do anything is like thinking speed governors on cars will prevent speeding when the driver can casually disable them
15:10 < RangerZ> I agree, but "rest room" is the excuse
15:12 < RangerZ> also Dagmar why does your app now require access to my contacts, to sending (but not receiving texts) and bluetooth?
15:12 < RangerZ> did you forget to turn off the auto permissions that come with switching to SDK 22?
15:12 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: We do have community policing... It's just that the cops, when given money for community policing, decide to re-define it as "Raid this entire community" instead of "raid this house."
15:16 < RangerZ> _NSAKEY: "Graphics Processing Units To Move From 28nm to 16nm | 40% Extra Performance & Same Power"
15:17 < RangerZ> or, same performance at 50% less power
15:17 < RangerZ> for both nvidia and amd
15:17 < RangerZ> since  TSMC makes the chips for both amd and nvidia
15:20 < RangerZ> that'll start around the end of th year
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18:09 < RangerZ1> oddball: https://othermachine.co/store/othermill/
18:09 < PigBot`> Title: Othermill — Other Machine Co. (at othermachine.co)
18:09 < RangerZ1> a 2200$ metal CNC that is desktop size
18:09 < RangerZ1> not sure of specifics of size, but is purchaseable now, and might be able to make metal parts for that gun
18:10 <@oddball> ooo.... shiny
18:10 < RangerZ1> does metal and wood
18:10 < RangerZ1> probably too small for full ar receivers or barrels, etc
18:10 < RangerZ1> but still, interesting
18:11 <@oddball> Oh, barrels aren't really done with CNC machines.
18:12 < RangerZ1> yeah I know
18:12 <@oddball> wait... it only works on a Mac?!
18:12 < RangerZ1> I just meant that those wouldn't be possible b/c of size
18:12 < RangerZ1> yeah.... i noticed that quickly too
18:12 < RangerZ1> b/c the software they have is mac only
18:12 < RangerZ1> b/c creative people _all_ own a mac, and nothing else
18:12 < RangerZ1> didn't you know that?
18:12 < RangerZ1> lol
18:13 < RangerZ1> ....this mac or bust BS is starting to get on my nervese actually
18:13 <@oddball> Mac: for artsy and stupid people.
18:13 < RangerZ1> in programming circles its going that way too
18:14 < RangerZ1> b/c it has  command line out of the box
18:14 <@oddball> really?
18:14 <@oddball> huh... hadn't thought sboutt that issue with Windows getting rid of the command line
18:14 < RangerZ1> windows command line is -there-
18:14 < RangerZ1> but....
18:14 < RangerZ1> it isn't posix
18:15 <@oddball> Yeah... just double checked that.
18:15 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: But what Windows packages amounts to being Kid DOS.
18:16 < RangerZ1> honestly the BIGGEST mistake MSFT is making IMHO is NOT putting posix support in windows
18:16 < _NSAKEY> A few years back, I bought an old SGI machine from a guy in Ashland City. He was a hardcore BSD fan, and he had switched to using Macs because the userland tools are lifted from FreeBSD.
18:16 <@oddball> I do remember the damn near overnight appearance of Mac laptops at tech conventions after they switched to osX.
18:16 < _NSAKEY> He just had to make the terminal icon more accessible, but he didn't have to learn about any quirks, since Apple uses the BSD versions of random tools.
18:17 <@oddball> Well, osX is BSD based.
18:17 < RangerZ1> could easily add support to gcc for windows posix, etc... and then just be done with it and say "hey look, you can use all your linux software on windows... AND you can use your windows stuff)
18:17 < RangerZ1> darwin BSD, yep
18:17 < _NSAKEY> The differences between GNU and BSD versions are minor but maddening unless you know about them.
18:17 < RangerZ1> appl has stopped submitting packages upstream to darwin now
18:17 < _NSAKEY> For that guy, he didn't have to deal with it.
18:17 < _NSAKEY> Something you guys might find funny...
18:17 < RangerZ1> so darwin has pretty much died
18:18 < _NSAKEY> At NLUG, I've seen presentations done on macs.
18:18 < RangerZ1> nope
18:18 <@oddball> It is a registered flavor of Unix.
18:18 < RangerZ1> not funny at all
18:18 < _NSAKEY> I guess nobody wants to fight with linux and projectors.
18:18 < RangerZ1> it makes sense
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18:19 <@oddball> I've often looked at osX as Unix with a good GUI... and none of the annoying hardware compatability issues.
18:20 <@Dagmar> Well, that's easy when it only runs on chosen hardware
18:20 < _NSAKEY> Apple's taken the best of both worlds in that regard.
18:21 <@oddball> Dagmar: true
18:21 < _NSAKEY> They're running on x86 hardware, which is cheaper, while treating hardware compatability like an extinct unix workstation vendor.
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21:40 < RangerZ> http://www.engadget.com/2015/05/15/oculus-rift-mac-linux-paused-pc-specs/
21:40 < PigBot`> Title: Oculus pauses Mac and Linux development, offers PC specs (at www.engadget.com)
21:40 < RangerZ> well that kinda sucks
21:41 < RangerZ> because Descent Underground is going to support Linux/Mac day one with rift support...
21:42 <@Dagmar> Perhaps not since the Occulus people just changed their focus
21:43 < RangerZ> yeah... apparently
22:14 <@Shadow404> ah, nothing like obtaining root on your car's infotainment system to bring a smile to the day
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22:42 < _NSAKEY> Shadow404: How did you manage that one?
22:42 < _NSAKEY> The ODB-II port is cheating, by the way.
22:43 < _NSAKEY> Although I'm assuming you did something more entertaining than that.
22:48 <@Evilpig> You'd be assuming incorrectly.  Although if a car has an infotainment system, odds are good it accepts new firmware via usb update and probably a simple root from there.
22:50 <@Shadow404> mazda 3 has a usb port, that allows a usb-ethernet adapter
22:50 <@Shadow404> very well published ionstructions
22:51 <@Shadow404> made some tweaks to make it more usable
22:52 <@Shadow404> Evilpig: wasnt firmware, but a vi edit to the js code
22:52 <@Shadow404> so a little more complex than overwriting a file
22:52 < _NSAKEY> Evilpig: ODB-II port = insta-root. That's why I brought it up.
22:52 < _NSAKEY> Abusing the USB port sounds slightly more entertaining than that.
22:52 <@Shadow404> obd-II usually is more with engine performance, not infotaiment
22:53 <@Shadow404> so now i can ssh into my car over the wifi, while its parked in my garage
22:53 <@Shadow404> kinda fun
22:53 < _NSAKEY> But can you make it crash?
22:53 <@Shadow404> lets hope not
22:54 < _NSAKEY> Oh, come on. You don't want to be the car equivalent to that guy who got banned from United flights?
22:54 <@Shadow404> not so much
22:54 <@Shadow404> on that note, night
22:57 <@Evilpig> ssh'ing into a car... just scares the hell out of me
23:00 < RangerZ> Evilpig: as it should
23:00 < RangerZ> I've read the papers published on that topic
23:00 < _NSAKEY> I can see that totally being a plot point in a movie.
23:01 < RangerZ> car busses have NO parity/error checking
23:01 < _NSAKEY> Like in a future Fast and Furious movie.
23:01 < _NSAKEY> "Tez, ssh into his car and lock the front left wheel!"
23:01 < RangerZ> if you randomly spit out data onto the bus... shit read it and acts
23:01 < _NSAKEY> "I'm on it, Dom!"
23:02 < RangerZ> thats the problem with airplane buses too
23:02 < RangerZ> they basically work the same way
23:02 < RangerZ> no End-to-End encryption
23:02 < RangerZ> ....speaking of the hacker who said he hacked 20 planes
23:02 < RangerZ> and then used _twitter_ to brag about it
23:05 < _NSAKEY> That's not even the worst part.
23:05 < _NSAKEY> Have you kept up with that story?
23:05 < RangerZ> no
23:06 < _NSAKEY> The feds released a search warrant just a few days ago.
23:06 < RangerZ> b/c part of me wonders if it is even true
23:06 < _NSAKEY> They're claiming that he told them that he took control of the engine of a plane during flight and made it tilt one way.
23:06 < _NSAKEY> It's possible that he claimed to do that in a similation and they got it wrong.
23:06 < RangerZ> yeah, i saw that
23:07 < RangerZ> if the fucker did it on a LIVE plane
23:07 <@Dagmar> Either way, isn't that guy trying to tell them they have major problems?
23:07 < _NSAKEY> But if the feds aren't lying or misunderstanding...
23:07 <@Dagmar> Shooting the messenger is a bad idea
23:07 < _NSAKEY> ... He pretty much deserves to have his ass stomped.
23:07 < RangerZ> _NSAKEY: or the guy is a fucking idiot who _tried it_
23:07 < RangerZ> I'm _for_ him telling the FBI etc
23:07 < RangerZ> but don't do that shit on a plane IN FLIGHT
23:07 < RangerZ> with _others_ on it
23:07 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: Finding problems is cool, but this guy claimed he took control of one of the engines and tilted the plane while it was in the air.
23:08 < RangerZ> Dagmar: I agree with you, and know that -in reality- the only way to get publicity over this is to do it for 'real'
23:08 < RangerZ> but he could have gone to an airline and told them he'd do it on a test flight
23:09 < RangerZ> imagine how much an airline would like to say "the first and only airline that prevents hackers from taking over the plane"
23:10 < RangerZ> thats worth billions in free advertising, group mind-share, and future advertising when your CEO goes infront of congress
23:10 < RangerZ> etc
23:11 < RangerZ> but... fucking companies don't actually think that way... who knows... this asshole probably never went to an airline
23:11 <@Dagmar> I don't think any airline would sign off on that outside of a simulator
23:11 < RangerZ> they fly test flights
23:11 < RangerZ> they would on those
23:12 < RangerZ> but yes, he'd have to pass the simulator
23:12 <@Dagmar> I don't think they'd let some random person who wasn't their high level engineer do it
23:13 <@Dagmar> The software used on planes is written in shit like ADA and audited like people solve quadratics
23:13 < RangerZ> used to be
23:13 < RangerZ> yes
23:13 < RangerZ> until the airline deregulation of 197... something
23:13 < RangerZ> then the 'software' deregulation of 2002 or something
23:14 < RangerZ> now you can use C/C++, etc
23:14 < RangerZ> hell they still use corba in some planes
23:14 <@Dagmar> Just the same, the only way I think an airplane is going to actually get audited by someone who isn't locked into the mindset used in developing them, is if they're independently wealthy to a degree that they can buy their own 777 to test with
23:15 < RangerZ> yeah, but it takes a special kind of asshole.... to "test" engine control on a commercial flight
23:17 <@Dagmar> WEll, an asshole who isn't afraid to kill himself by accident
23:19 < _NSAKEY> Not to mention all the other people who didn't consent to being part of a science experiment.
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23:26 <@Dagmar> I suspect if self-preservation isn't a concern, then the preservation of others isn't going to be either
23:27 <@Dagmar> Personally, I've *thought* about attempting to hack a plane, _but_... I'm also familiar with how often trying to find a vulnerability tends to result in a system crashing before it does something useful.
23:27 <@Dagmar> With the number of "glass cockpits"?  No thanks.
23:27 <@Dagmar> Not unless the fucker is sitting on the ground
23:28 <@Dagmar> I bought that fancy red online-only Handspring PDA back in 2000.
23:28 <@Dagmar> It barely used power.
23:28 <@Evilpig> awwww handspring, we barely knew you
23:28 <@Dagmar> I turned it on once (by accident) on a flight just as the pilots did some heavy-handed adjustments.
23:28 <@Dagmar> ...and I nearly tore the thing apart with my bare hands trying to turn it off.
23:29 <@oddball> One of the things I point at in the long story of Palm attempting to commit suicide.
23:29 <@Dagmar> About the only thing I'm going to say about hacking a plane in flight is "reckless endangerment" which sort of overrides everything else
23:30 <@Dagmar> He should have done it while the plane was on the ground.
23:30 <@Dagmar> (and carefully avoided touching anything relating to the wheels)
23:31 <@Dagmar> If those control systems have a wireless component _at all_ there is a problem, and that's enough for me to say they're not safe
23:31 <@Evilpig> They're all supposed to have that fly by wire / land by wire capability now
23:32 <@Evilpig> and that is scary shit
23:32 <@Dagmar> Yeah but that shouldn't be using a sustem that consumer technology can interact with
23:32 <@Evilpig> if the airlines can get their hands on the parts, so can anyone else with enough resources
23:32 <@Dagmar> Even the X10 people have more sense than that
23:33 <@Dagmar> Industrial controls aren't (without serious hassle) able to interact with the consumer-level stuff
23:33 <@Dagmar> So, while you might be able to get a cheap remote and some plugs to turn on your lights, that same remote can't turn the sprinklers on and off
23:34 <@Dagmar> Mind you, it _can_ be done, but it requires some modification
23:34 <@Dagmar> For planes... _it should require a fuckload more than that_
23:35 <@Dagmar> So if someone can just power up a consumer wireless card and use a special MAC or something... someone who designed that should be in jail
23:39 < RangerZ> the _custom_ system that a county in ohio had built for lawyers to access court records would go into debug mode if you pressed the top right corner 10 times
23:40 < RangerZ> my friend found it by accident by mindlessly tapping there while waiting for someone
23:40 < RangerZ> "because it wasn't on one of the buttons, so it shouldn't have mattered"
23:40 <@Dagmar> I found the admin menus on the drink mixer in much the same way
23:41 <@Dagmar> Considering that some of them dispense Full Throttle... :)
23:41 <@Dagmar> *poke*poke*
23:41 <@Dagmar> "Syrup level 100%"
23:41 < RangerZ> how was your ER visit/
23:41 < RangerZ> ?*
23:42 <@Dagmar> I wouldn't have that kind of problem
23:43 <@Dagmar> ...but neither of those systems is in a "mission-critical" role so it's not quite terrible, at least in the case of the soda dispenser
23:43 <@Dagmar> I long ago gave up expecting municpal systems to think those things through
--- Log closed Mon May 18 00:00:51 2015