--- Log opened Fri Apr 10 00:00:15 2015
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00:36 < RangerZ> shit weather inbound FYI, lol
00:36 < RangerZ> also https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/descendentstudios/descent-underground
00:36 < PigBot> Title: Descent: Underground by Descendent Studios Kickstarter (at www.kickstarter.com)
00:36 < RangerZ> I'm going to be doing a Q&A session with their CTO sometime next week.
00:38 < RangerZ> 19 hours left on the kick starter not -quite- there, but hopefully they'll make it, it would be nice to see a fully cross platform Descent game made
00:38 <@Dagmar> ...because projectile vomiting during gameplay shouldn't be restricted to Windows users alone.
00:42 < RangerZ> no no no
00:42 < RangerZ> that is the VR support that is cross platform
00:42 < RangerZ> ;)
00:56 <@Dagmar> It's not Descent until at least a third of the players are having to take vomit breaks.
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01:57 <@Evilpig> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9hDrAVHa4
01:57 < PigBot> Title: David Allen Coe - Finger F*cking Sally - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
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03:39 <@Dagmar> Well... that's interesting.
03:39 <@Dagmar> I've got a user trying to tell me the widgets are using a huge amount of power
03:41 <@Dagmar> According to what he's saying, about twice as much power as the screen.  That doesn't seem remotely possible.
03:43 <@Bahhumbug> Users are idiots.
03:43 <@Bahhumbug> This is a universal constant.
03:43 <@Dagmar> I don't even get a _category_ for the widget itself on _either_ of my phones.
03:43 <@Dagmar> Or the tablet, for that matter.
03:44 <@Dagmar> So I'm wondering WTF some app or his launcher is doing
03:44 <@Dagmar> It doesn't use wake locks or anything like that, so when the phone's asleep it won't be doing anything
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05:16 < aestetix> man
05:16 < aestetix> watching off broadway comedy acts is not a good way to pass the time
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08:02 < Synx|hm> somebody get me preds playoff tickets please
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08:40 < Synx|hm> http://www.amazon.com/Minder-Wink-App-Enabled-Smart-Tray/dp/B00GN92KQ4/ref=pd_rhf_cr_s_cp_26_CQ4J?ie=UTF8&refRID=183NX3KP112G7RCEF6Q0
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09:58 < _NSAKEY> PhreakNIC 18 videos are starting to go up.
10:19 < Catonic_> yay
10:19 < _NSAKEY> There are 5 out of however many videos up at the moment.
10:20 < Catonic_> sasquatc4: irony: Sessions and Shelby were involved in increasing the number of H1Bs in Alabama
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10:21 <@Mirage> OMG, so much fun... Report from user: "ls doesn't work in /tmp"
10:21 < _NSAKEY> Mirage: Are you closing that as "wontfix?"
10:21 <@Catonic> that being said, I have a few friends who are H1Bs, and they are good people... but they are here because Americans with MDs won't work for $50K
10:21 <@Mirage> So far I've found a little over a million .tmp files in there...and find is still going
10:22 <@Catonic> fire off a backup of /tmp, then rm -rf /tmp
10:22 < Synx|hm> fucking employer just overnighted me via fedex a stack of papers
10:22 < Synx|hm> for a soild 60 seconds i thought what a shitty way to get notified youve been fired
10:22 <@Mirage> Catonic: it won't backup..Networker chokes because it can't generate the file listing
10:22 <@Catonic> you're being sued or fired?
10:22 < Synx|hm> come to find out its worse, its a new middle of year health plan swap out
10:22 < Synx|hm> to save the company money and fuck over its employees
10:22 <@Catonic> Mirage: that's a hint that xargs is going to be involved.
10:23 <@Catonic> for S&G, df -hi
10:23 <@Catonic> hint: I found all your inodes.
10:23 <@Bahhumbug> It would be faster to rsync an empty dir to it.
10:23 <@Bahhumbug> /tmp shouldn't be holding anything worth backing up, anyway.
10:24 <@Catonic>  /tmp as MFS is nice. Until someone leaves a few GB of files out there, and you have to figure out why a system not doing anything suddenly has 50% swap used or more.
10:24 <@Mirage> Catonic: We had a site at VU with similar issues, though not quite as many files (not for lack of trying on their part).   I know how to deal with it.
10:24 <@Catonic> I hope the cattle prod is freshly charged.
10:24 <@Mirage> There will be a cronjob added to keep it clean
10:24 <@Catonic> Bahhumbug: agreed, agreed, and --delete-after
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10:25 <@Catonic> There will be blood. And the gnashing of teeth.
10:25 <@Bahhumbug> Indeed.
10:25 <@Catonic> and cake.
10:25 <@Catonic> just kidding. the cake is a liel
10:25 <@Catonic> *lie.
10:25 <@Mirage> Bahhumbug: I'm only supposed to whack files +14 days old
10:26 <@Mirage> AND provide a list of all the files taht are being deleted..from tmp..
10:26 <@Catonic> ... hence the hurry up and wait.
10:26 <@Bahhumbug> Sucks to be you.  I'd just nuke the damn thing and to hell with anyone that cried about it.
10:27 <@Catonic> which is stupid, because you know good and damn well once the RP gets a 1MB file of 14 charachter file names ,they are just going to declare them unnecessary.
10:28 <@Catonic> I try to be as literal as possible, so they don't ask me to infer anything. As terse and easy to work with as a computer.
10:28 <@Catonic> none of that "do what I said, not what I mean."
10:28 <@Catonic> or vice versa
10:29 <@Mirage> Catonic: not my problem if they don't look at the list..I will find great humor in whoever tries to open the txt file in notepad having their machine essentially lock up for ~2 minutes before notepad finally crashes with the error about too many lines in teh file.
10:30 <@Mirage> ...up to 1.3 million files...still going
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10:33 <@Catonic> BTDTGTS
10:33 <@Catonic> it's why I started drinking beer at 830 this morning. Someone talked to me about work. it's my day off.
10:35 <@Mirage> LOL...and the best part!  I just looked at 3 of the files to see what's in them:  Nothing!  Empty! Zero-byte!
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10:44 < Synx|hm> great ive remoted into a client machine and its all in japenese
10:44 < Synx|hm> how do i logout and NOT shutdown
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10:51 <@Evilpig> am I missing something here on this page?  where did he stumble into a paid service?  09:02 < P_a_n_t_e_r_a> Evilpig, http://www.getlocalization.com/opendcim/ is paid service, I want to translate myself.
10:51 < PigBot> Title: openDCIM Translations - Get Localization (at www.getlocalization.com)
10:53 <@Mirage> Evilpig: probably went to the main site and was confused by "This software is provided for free, but it costs money for domain registration, hosting, development tools, and beer."
10:55 <@Evilpig> this dude has asked a series of things that were just all off
10:55 <@Evilpig> he's also using a wamp stack that doesnt' work and wants to know why
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10:56 <@Evilpig> 00:52 < P_a_n_t_e_r_a> my suggestions:
10:56 <@Evilpig> 00:52 < P_a_n_t_e_r_a> 1. optionto force devices to updat after chgi template
10:56 <@Evilpig> 00:52 < P_a_n_t_e_r_a> 2. add device type
10:56 <@Evilpig> 00:54 < P_a_n_t_e_r_a> 3. database backup and restore between windows a linux (tablnames is Capitalized in Linux)
10:56 <@Evilpig> 00:55 < P_a_n_t_e_r_a> 4. report is notworking in windows (WAMP)
10:56 <@Evilpig> 00:56 < P_a_n_t_e_r_a> 5. after changing template we can no ad devis in chas slots in Windows
10:56 <@Evilpig> 00:59 < P_a_n_t_e_r_a> remove restriction for image import
10:56 <@Evilpig> 01:02 < P_a_n_t_e_r_a> 7. oracle DB support
10:56 <@Bahhumbug> "Shittastic stacks such as WAMP are not supported."
10:56 <@Evilpig> #3 made me wtf
10:57 <@Evilpig> we've said all along it's based on lamp, wamp will be given a best effort
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10:57 <@Bahhumbug> nick-o-meter P_a_n_t_e_r_a
10:57 <@Bahhumbug> meh
10:58 <@Bahhumbug> @nick-o-meter P_a_n_t_e_r_a
10:58 < PigBot> Bahhumbug: Error: "nick-o-meter" is not a valid command.
10:58 <@GateKeeper> Bahhumbug: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "P_a_n_t_e_r_a" is 99.0%.
10:58 <@Bahhumbug> GateKeeper, part
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10:58 <@Evilpig> the image restriction was he couldn't upload images, so he was putting them on the server by hand.
10:58 <@Evilpig> it was a pure wtf
10:59 <@Bahhumbug> Do you guys support garbage like wamp
10:59 <@Bahhumbug> ?
11:01 <@Mirage> windows-apache-mysql-php?
11:02 <@Evilpig> not officially, but the xammp suite mostly works
11:03 <@Bahhumbug> Heh, "mostly".
11:04 <@Bahhumbug> Have fun with that.
11:05 <@Evilpig> we had to make one small change for the gettext to work on windows vs linux.  that was about the only real incompatibility we addressed
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11:05 <@Evilpig> shit like missing php modules, weird versions... wen't not touching
11:05 <@Evilpig> my housekeeper could show up anytime.  I best get up and do the dishes and put on clothes
11:05 <@Evilpig> bbl
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11:45 < dfused> cleaning up before the person who cleans up arrives.... that you pay. .. seems a waste of $$
11:46 <@Evilpig> they don't do dishes
11:46 < dfused> or windows?
11:46 <@Evilpig> they'll do windows if I ask
11:46 <@Evilpig> but I never open my blinds so why bother?
11:46 < dfused> lol
11:47 < dfused> I'm thankful that my windows open up to trees.... cant see other buildings. yay!
11:50 <@Evilpig> I have a nice courtyard out back but meh
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12:00 < dfused> nature hater
12:00 < dfused> heh
12:12 <@Evilpig> great.... yahoo! re-org getting announced later today
12:13 <@Evilpig> 523 million people have been to tumblr in the last 30 days
12:22 < aestetix> damn
12:22 < aestetix> what kind of re-org?
12:33 < RangerZ> they are outsourcing all their data-centers
12:33 < RangerZ> lol
12:37 <@Evilpig> oddball: didn't you just mention empire records?  http://www.roughtradenyc.com/event/795945-bbq-films-rex-manning-day-brooklyn
12:37 < PigBot> Title: » BBQ Films Presents Rex Manning Day Tickets Rough Trade NYC Brooklyn, NY April 10th, 2015 (at www.roughtradenyc.com)
12:48 < aestetix> lol
12:48 < aestetix> RangerZ: so tumblr is going to AWS and Evilpig's job is being replaced by some guy in india?
12:48 < dfused> lol
12:48 < RangerZ> NOPE 3  guys in Indonesia
12:49 < RangerZ> even cheaper than India
12:52 < aestetix> And theyy are all named Sean Parker
12:52 < aestetix> or Matt Hil
12:53 < aestetix> or some other made up name
12:53 < RangerZ> who knows
12:53 < aestetix> you know they do that right?
12:53 < aestetix> indians and such adopt american sounding names for business
12:54 < RangerZ> not just Indians
12:58 <@Evilpig> I have no idea on the scope of the re-org.  :-/  I don't think they are ever good though
12:59 < aestetix> Evilpig: well you could always move to berlin
13:00 < dfused> and room up with aestetix
13:12 <@Evilpig> movie choices for today.  "Home" or "Get Hard"  what say you, dicks?
13:13 < dfused> home
13:13 < dfused> I'm just not a huge wil ferrell fan...
13:13 <@Evilpig> I'm not eithet but occasionaly he can make me laugh
13:13 < dfused> kevin's pretty funny though
13:15 < dfused> oh jeebus.... alison brie......BOING
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13:47 < aestetix> uh
13:48 < aestetix> is get hard a porno?
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13:54 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G081hD0nwWE
13:54 < PigBot> Title: HDD and Floppy Music: Nirvana - Smell Like Teen Spirit - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
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14:42 < aestetix> rattle: I'm speaking at the IDESG plenary next week. You should tune in.
14:44 <@rattle> Email me the info so I have it.
14:45 < aestetix> Ok.
14:45 < aestetix> What's the best email for you?
14:47 -!- K4k [~K4k@unaffiliated/k4k] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
14:49 < aestetix> hahaha
14:49 < aestetix> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/11/us/politics/hillary-clinton-to-announce-2016-run-for-president-on-sunday.html
14:49 < aestetix> opening sentence
14:49 < aestetix> The prolonged prologue to Hillary Rodham Clinton’s second run for the White House will reach its suspenseless conclusion on Sunday
15:09 < Synx|hm> Allstate is seeking military veterans for a unique, all expenses paid training class that you can complete on your own time.  This opportunity is open only to military-experienced candidates and will provide you with a skillset that is in high demand in today’s market.
15:09 < Synx|hm> ya NOPE
15:14 < aestetix> Is that skillset cold calling people?
15:14 < Synx|hm> ya probably ha
15:14 < aestetix> Or door to door sales
15:15 < aestetix> Maybe Allstate is opening a chapter to sell some cutco knives
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15:57 < aestetix> wow look at this
15:57 < aestetix> https://i.imgur.com/CvzCTV1.gifv (nsfw)
17:01 < aestetix> I think this is Evilpig's dad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGJt0JXX05M
17:01 < PigBot> Title: Im a redneck and I love America - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
17:04 -!- mode/#se2600 [+b *!~aestetix@*.2600.com] by Bahhumbug
17:04 -!- aestetix was kicked from #se2600 by Bahhumbug [Go violate some other network's AUP/TOS]
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17:32 <@Dagmar> Bahhumbug: I kinda don't blame you.  I've no idea why he thought we might want to see that.
17:32 <@Dagmar> At least he tagged it NSFW so there's _some_ improvement there
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17:41 <@Bahhumbug> There is no excuse for this behavior.  I've had it.  From this point forward any and all such behavior will be forwarded straight to Tom Wesley or Christel.  Enough is enough.
17:46 <@klixa> what behavior> what happened?
17:48 < _NSAKEY> klixa: He linked to a NSFW imgur.
17:48 <@klixa> who
17:48 < _NSAKEY> aestetix.
17:48 <@klixa> im not sure that violates freenode's policy unless it was cp or something
17:48 <@Dagmar> Bahhumbug: Well, you might want to tell _aestetix_ that when he comes back
17:50 <@klixa> Bahhumbug: i think you should just put him on /igmore ; this whole idea of "telling on people" to staff is kinda ridiculous...and if enough people ignore him, then he will leave, but if they dont it means they dont want him to... (unless hes posting illegal stuff, then it shoudl be reporteed)
17:51 <@klixa> too many channels are being ruined by people not using /ignore and trying to constantly start wars with people they dont like
17:51 <@klixa> my 2 cents anyway
18:07 <@Bahhumbug> I've warned him repeatedly.  I've threatened him with this in the past.  He doesn't care.
18:07 <@Bahhumbug> klixa: http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#offtopic
18:07 < PigBot> Title: freenode: Policies (at freenode.net)
18:08 <@Bahhumbug> And yes, his most recent is in violation of that.
18:09 <@Bahhumbug> If he would grow the fuck up and act his age instead of a bored 13 year old this wouldn't be a problem.  And /ignore is useless as it doesn't catch both sides of a conversation unless using the "related" flag and that only catches it if the person being ignroed is mentioned by nick.
18:09 <@Bahhumbug> Anyway, I'm done.  He does it again and Tom and Christel can deal with it.
18:12 <@klixa> i will say this, im not a fan of porn, and im indiferent towards aesthetix.. but im also against "telling on people"... i dont know what all the others here think of his behavior, but but maybe if EVERYONE doesnt like him, ban him...poroblem solved. However, hes still here, so it seems like you are really the only one who cares
18:13 <@Bahhumbug> You're wasting your breath, I don't care.  I've made my stand on this quite clear.
18:13 <@Bahhumbug> Don't like it?  /ignore me :)
18:16 <@klixa> i was just giving my oppinion... we can disagree wihtout it becming some argument :P
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18:19 <@rattle> Sigh.
18:23 <@klixa> freenode staff had this to say:
18:23 <@klixa> [15:21:29] <+thomas>	klixa: it's generally up to the channel ops what's a bannable offense or not. I'd not say posting a porn link in one channel is a k-lineable offense but we don't exactly have concrete rules on what warrants that
18:24 <@Bahhumbug> I have years of history of his links.  If I make this an issue he's gone.  There isn't any question in this.
18:24 <@rattle> That link was so wrong.  You have no idea how wrong it was.  I have had multiple friends over the years that have worked in home care for mentaly disabled people.. So there was a type of explitation going on there that I can identify more clearly than most.
18:25 <@Bahhumbug> ^ that
18:25 <@rattle> That said, remember what community you are in.  We are tolerant of people.
18:25 <@klixa> i didnt click the link... i was given a brief description tho... but my point is, im not sure you could get him gone...BUT, you can get rid of him form this channel... but no one else seems to care
18:25 <@klixa> Bahhumbug: im not pro aesthetic or antying, i cant stand him most of the time and think hes gross
18:25 <@rattle> In particular, we are tolerant of people who don't recognize social norms others do.
18:26 <@rattle> Part of what we do, help them with that problem.
18:26 <@Bahhumbug> I was tolerant.  For years.  Enough.  Is.  Enough.
18:26 <@klixa> but this channel, well basically what rattle  is saying, we have a certian culture here...and its not a culture of tattling on people
18:26 <@Bahhumbug> He's doing this on purpose.
18:26 <@Bahhumbug> I've said my piece.
18:26 < _NSAKEY> rattle: Not that I'm piling on aestetix or anything, but would you say that his being told "This behavior is unacceptable" multiple times over the last few months is just aestetix not understanding social norms?
18:27 <@klixa> hes totally a troll, im not denying that
18:27 <@rattle> I sorta think it's an aspect of that and troll culture.
18:27 < _NSAKEY> Bahhumbug may be a grumpy old man, but he's clearly warned that he would start reporting aestetix to opers over this kind of behavior.
18:27 <@Bahhumbug> He is fully aware of social norms.  Stop pretending he's not.
18:28 <@klixa> well he cna report him all he wnats, but  he doesnt have to make it a channel issue i guess
18:28 <@rattle> You know, there's a certain aspect of that behavior that is worse than anything...
18:28 <@rattle> You know the history of this channel?
18:28 <@rattle> It moved around several places over time.
18:28 < _NSAKEY> rattle: I've only been here a few months, in case you were addressing that to me.
18:28 <@rattle> One of the reasons, is that the oppers wanted to have control over it rather than any outside entity.
18:29 <@rattle> Freenode became a good home because it was stable and didn't fuck with anything.
18:29 <@rattle> So, by invoking the network, you're sorta fucking with the canon.
18:29 <@klixa> YES!!!!!!!
18:29 <@rattle> Dagmar and others will back me up on this.
18:29 <@Bahhumbug> Then fucking do something about it yourselves.
18:29 -!- RangerZ [~mike@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
18:29 <@klixa> this is like a haven omn an a mostly adpie infested PC network... and Bahhumbug  wants to make it just like the rest of this network
18:30 <@klixa> have of a mostly*, f*** i cant type
18:30 <@rattle> If you want an open forum, you've gotta deal with the shit that comes with it.
18:30 < _NSAKEY> klixa: Are you on a phone, or is alcohol involved?
18:30 <@klixa> tldr, dont want this chan to suck like all the others
18:30 <@klixa> _NSAKEY: nah, i just suck at typing
18:30 <@klixa> :(
18:30 <@rattle> And asthetix actually contributes to the hacking community.  He might have some "weev'ish" shit going on, but that's what comes with this community.
18:31 <@Bahhumbug> Yeah.  No.
18:31 <@Bahhumbug> You don't act like that.
18:31 <@Bahhumbug> Dagmar doesn't.
18:31 <@Bahhumbug> No one else in this channel does.
18:31 < _NSAKEY> rattle: Comparing aestetix to weev is insulting to weev.
18:31 <@rattle> Now, I WILL come down HARD on anyone disrespecting women in any direct way..  But if it's something like a link to some bad content...  Deal with it.
18:31 <@Bahhumbug> Stop giving that piece of shit a free pass.
18:31 <@klixa> Bahhumbug: you are offered the same tolerance he is...and so is everyone else
18:32 <@Bahhumbug> And if you'll note no one else shits upon that tolerance.
18:32 <@klixa> for me , its all about the principle..if i never saw aeastetix again i wouldnt care
18:32 <@klixa> the only person he acts like a normal human with is sumo
18:32 <@klixa> its bizarre
18:33 <@klixa> they actually have REAL convos
18:33 -!- mode/#se2600 [-b *!~aestetix@*.2600.com] by rattle
18:34 -!- mode/#se2600 [-b *!*jSc6YlJG@unaffiliated/cerkit] by rattle
18:34 <@rattle> That should piss a few people off..  And the aestetix part is one half.
18:34 <@klixa> wait, aesthetix was banned?
18:35 < _NSAKEY> Who is the 2nd person?
18:35 <@rattle> Make arguments for banning them that involve defining the community you're in.  Otherwise, shut the fuck up.
18:35 <@klixa> im just gonna let rattle be my spokesperson,  he states my thoughts better than i do
18:35 <@Bahhumbug> You're part of a much larger community - the network.  The network has rules.  These rules trump anything in this channel.
18:35 <@klixa> staff already said porn links dont go against rules
18:35 <@Bahhumbug> If you want to continue to coddle that POS like a baby, you go right ahead.
18:36 <@Bahhumbug> Perhaps if you'd read the fuck link I sent earlier?
18:36 <@rattle> This channel has shit to do with the network.  It's moved several times.  Freenode has wound up as it's home because it has been a good home.
18:36 <@klixa> i went and asked staff instead Bahhumbug
18:36 <@Bahhumbug> Unlawful activities and their related support activities are considered off-topic, as are inappropriate advertising, heavy media file trading, gaming and proprietary game software modding, warez, hax0r activity, porn and various forms of antisocial behavior, including (but not limited to) political, racial, ethnic, religious or gender-related invective. Off-topic activity may result in users being
18:36 <@Bahhumbug> You asked a junior staffer.
18:36 <@Bahhumbug> Whoppdedo
18:37 <@rattle> Bahhumbug: Ok.  Maybe I'm not connecting with you the right way.  Can you tell me your relation to the SE2600 movement that started during the mid-90's?
18:37 <@klixa> you're the one who doesnt belong here, fyi... you dont even know any of us irl...and you wanna come to this chan and make it like all otehr freenode chans and threaten to talk to christel...
18:38  * rhia scrolls up 
18:38 <@rattle> Bahhumbug: Because, if you understood what that was..  It had alot to do with acceptance of people that often pissed us off.
18:38 <@rhia> the more things change,  the more they stay the same .... troll causing drama in se2600, what else is new?
18:39  * rhia wanders back off into the wilderness
18:39 -!- mode/#se2600 [-b *!*@zeniv.linux.org.uk] by Bahhumbug
18:39 <@klixa> Bahhumbug: also, since you are all about rules. LOGGING CHANNELS is also against rules (unless you post that you are doing it in topic)
18:39 <@klixa> publicly logging*
18:39 -!- mode/#se2600 [-b $a:anarchival] by Bahhumbug
18:40 <@Bahhumbug> There ya go - might as well make it a complete deal and unban the other abusive twits while you're at it.
18:40 <@rattle> Bahhumbug: We sorta drew the line in the sand with people who were physically hurting others and commiting major crimes.
18:41 <@rattle> So, that's the environment.
18:42 -!- mode/#se2600 [-bbbb *!*@anhedonia.sammy.net *!*eJmuxAiz@190.120.238.* khax!*@* *!*@2001:1af8:4700:a032:3::] by rattle
18:42 <@rattle> Clear slate.
18:42 <@rattle> Deal with it as it comes up.
18:42 <@klixa> the purge
18:42 <@rattle> It's not like you can't reban someone.
18:42 <@rattle> We've had meetings before where we had to send someone off, only to welcome them back.
18:42 < _NSAKEY> Wow, that's actually not that many bans.
18:43 <@rattle> If you want an open community, you've got to deal with shit.
18:43 <@rattle> So, deal with it.
18:43 <@rattle> You kicked aesthetix out for awhile.. Maybe he learned a lesson, maybe he didn't..
18:44 <@rattle> You'll find out.
18:44 <@Bahhumbug> He didn't learn shit.
18:44 <@Bahhumbug> I had to threaten to remove his fucking teeth for brigning my _WIFE_ into an argument gere.
18:44 <@Bahhumbug> This is the type of turd you're defending.
18:44 < _NSAKEY> Bahhumbug: On that note, why don't you show up at the next PhreakNIC? We could probably sell more tickets if we billed a you vs aestetix boxing match as the main event on Saturday night.
18:45 <@Bahhumbug> So, tell you what.  I will drop this.  I will go to PNwhateverfuckingnumberitis, and remove his fuckig teeth, one by one, with a pair of pliars.
18:45 <@rattle> Look, and I'm going to be very clear about this.  If you are not willing to support an open community, then I can assure you that you will be the one pushed out given time.
18:45 <@rattle> I'm not someone you can argue with about that fact.
18:45 <@Bahhumbug> The only reason I am here is two-fold.  1)  Intelligence (yes, even including that turd) of the channel and 2) _years_ of being in 312.
18:47 <@rattle> I am very passionate about fighting misogyny in our community, and a whole other host of bad shit..
18:48 <@rattle> But, I'm not going to start putting up walls for people who contribute things because they simply have poor taste.
18:49 <@Bahhumbug> Again, coddling.  This isn't about taste.  This is about him constantly going out of his way to be offensive.
18:49 <@rattle> Yes.  And that's something you've got to have a very tough skin for if you're going to work in security.
18:49 <@Bahhumbug> This isn't about security.
18:50 <@Bahhumbug> This is about how to act in a given social setting.
18:50 <@rattle> ttyl.  I'm going to go off and take care of my kids while I reflect on the roots of this given community.  Someone else might chime in.
18:50 <@Bahhumbug> See ya
18:50 <@klixa> rattle: you summed it all up perfectly
18:51 <@klixa> id just be mean and say go to #bronies or something :/
18:51 <@Bahhumbug> I also like how the other people that have spoken up again him in the past decide to sit this argument out.
18:51 <@Bahhumbug> Classy.
18:52 <@klixa> thats just it, its not about HIM...its about a principle
18:52 <@Bahhumbug> No.  It's about HIM.
18:52 <@Bahhumbug> HE is the only one doing this.
18:52 <@Bahhumbug> HE.  An INDIVIDUAL.
18:56 <@klixa> i was banned in another channel recently cause ONE person didnt like me They turned a lot more people against me, including ops. Im nt even sure why they didnt like me, cause unlike aesthetix i wasnt doing obnoxious stuff. Anyway, i highly DISLIKE this idea that just cause one person dislikes someone that they think EVERYONE else should too. You are just one person with an oppinion...and uyou can /ignore him, or report him or whatever you want... but the
18:56 <@klixa>  rest of us arent the type to go telling staff , and like habing no staff involvment, etc. You basically want us all to agree with you, but we wont.
18:58 <@Bahhumbug> Blah blah blah.
18:58 <@Bahhumbug> I don't care what your opinions of this are.
18:58 <@Bahhumbug> You've made your point quite clear.  You're going to continue to coddle the only offensive member of this channel.
18:58 -!- aestetix [~aestetix@phalse.2600.com] has joined #se2600
18:58 <@klixa> aestetix: LOL
18:58 <@klixa> speak of the devil
18:58 <@Bahhumbug> Hi, turd... you going to PN?
18:58 < aestetix> what did I do now
18:59 <@Bahhumbug> Stop acting like you don't know.
18:59 < aestetix> ...
18:59 -!- sasquatc4 [~sasquatc4@2601:1:8900:1708:7cf8:c816:57cb:be51] has joined #se2600
18:59 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o sasquatc4] by ChanServ
18:59 < aestetix> klixa: what did I miss
18:59 -!- RangerZ [~mike@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
18:59 <@klixa> aestetix: http://pastebin.com/b5Ky2grM
18:59 < PigBot> Title: [14:33:14] -ChanServ- beware of dagmar the awesome overlord [14:33:14] Website - Pastebin.com (at pastebin.com)
19:00 <@klixa> it expires in an hour
19:01 <@klixa> tldr, Bahhumbug wants you k lined, and no one else even wants you banned based on the pricniple of acceptence, even if you do suck most of the time
19:01 <@Bahhumbug> I don't want him klined.  I want him to stop being an offensive troll.
19:02 <@klixa> you said you wanted to report him staff and have him gone...thats a k line
19:02 <@Bahhumbug> I am on record multiple times having stated that he has a lot to contribute.
19:02 < aestetix> Um. Am I misremembering? I could have sworn I put NSFW on that link.
19:02 -!- sasquatc3 [~sasquatc4@2601:1:8900:1708:ac02:3a0:1e1f:bb6c] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
19:03 <@Bahhumbug> Irrelevant.
19:03 < aestetix> Is putting NSFW not respecting the wishes of people who do not wish to see such things?
19:04 <@klixa> aestetix: i asked staff and they said uyou did not not vilate freenode policy and that its a channel matter
19:04 <@Bahhumbug> You asked a junior staffer that is apparently not aware of the published guidelines.
19:04  * klixa never clicks any of aestetix 's links, nsfw or not, cause i dont trust his judgment
19:04 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: and regarding the bit about your wife, IIRC I did not intend for it to be recieved as a personal attack, and apologized when it was.
19:05 <@Bahhumbug> And the exact quite was: "<+thomas>    klixa: it's generally up to the channel ops what's a bannable offense or not. I'd not say posting a porn link in one channel is a k-lineable offense but we don't exactly have concrete rules on what warrants that"
19:05 <@Bahhumbug> You can be klined for the wind blowing.
19:06 <@Bahhumbug> But since you only want to quote the statements of a junior staffer and not read the fucking policy page I linked...  this is pointless.
19:06 <@Bahhumbug> You apologied after I threatened to knock your teeth out.
19:06 <@Bahhumbug> Fuck it.
19:06 <@Bahhumbug> Come to PN.
19:06  * Bahhumbug &
19:06 <@klixa> yes, cause only you are right about everything, but junior staff, other people, etc are all wrong
19:06 < aestetix> No, I apologized after I became aware you took it as a personal attack.
19:06 < aestetix> As I do *not* make personal attacks, at least intentionally.
19:09 -!- sasquatc3 [~sasquatc4@2601:1:8900:1708:b865:36a6:aa66:a8b5] has joined #se2600
19:09 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o sasquatc3] by ChanServ
19:09 < aestetix> Also
19:09 < aestetix> This is just me, but I never say "This behavior is inappropriate." I always say "I find this behavior to be inappropriate."
19:10 < aestetix> I only say the former if there is full consensus, otherwise it silences out dissenting opinions.
19:10 < aestetix> That said, if Bahhumbug wants to tattle on me, I'm perfectly happy to explain my reasoning to the "judge."
19:10 < aestetix> Although I can't imagine they would want to waste their time on something so trivial.
19:11 <@klixa> they'd tell him to use /igmore
19:11 < aestetix> Especially given that I suspect freenode is used for actual illegal activity.
19:11 < aestetix> Like, knowingly soliciting a minor for sex. That's not just k-linable, that's call the cops able.
19:11 <@klixa> i think threatening physical violence is illegal too
19:12 <@klixa> not sure tho...
19:12 < aestetix> I think the term is incitement, and it has to be specific.
19:13 -!- sasquatc4 [~sasquatc4@2601:1:8900:1708:7cf8:c816:57cb:be51] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
19:13 < aestetix> I'm trying to remember which supreme court case...
19:13 < aestetix> klixa: if I say on twitter "I'm going to punch you in the nose", that's not illegal.
19:14 <@klixa> ok
19:14 < aestetix> But if I say "I'm going to punch you in the nose, I'm driving to your address at 123 Fake St", that IS illegal.
19:14 <@klixa> hmmm
19:14 < aestetix> Or at least, establishes probable cause.
19:14 <@klixa> so saying "come to PN im gonna knock your teether out" is illegal then?
19:14 <@klixa> or no?
19:15 < aestetix> The question is, is there reason to believe he would actually carry through with such a threat.
19:15 < aestetix> (there's also a consent question, but I'm not into that)
19:15 -!- RangerZ [~mike@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
19:16 <@klixa> my daughter is awake...so this is no longer a prioroty..later
19:16 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Quit: bleh]
19:18 < aestetix> That said, I will readily concede to rattle that I sometimes have very poor taste ;)
19:20 <@rattle> I really want you all to start acting like an enlightened community.
19:21 <@rattle> And I'm sure that means different things to different people.
19:21 <@rattle> You WILL disagree with each other.
19:21 <@rattle> Strongly.
19:21 < aestetix> That reminds me, rattle I owe you an email.
19:21 <@rattle> You will present ideas and content that others find offensive.
19:21 <@rattle> But, you WILL also RESPECT each other.
19:22 <@rattle> And that means, you will repect each others rights to present ideas and content that is offensive.
19:23 <@rattle> If you can't deal with things that are offensive, find a different place to hang out.
19:23 <@Bahhumbug> Because it would be to much to ask that the offender _respects_ the wishes of others not to post such material?
19:23 <@rattle> aestetix:  You are a fucking dick.  I did find that video offensive.  I have friends that work in care for disabled people, and that was some very exploitative shit.
19:24 < aestetix> Duly noted!
19:24 <@rattle> Bahhumbug: Hey, just because I'm lashing aesthetix right now don't get any ideas that you're right about something.
19:25 <@rattle> aestetix: Think about that..  Some mentaly ill guy who can't control his ability to beat off and facination with porn got filmed and exploited on the net.
19:26 <@rattle> aestetix: Yes, I see why you find it funny.  But it's also sorta sick.
19:26 < aestetix> rattle: I didn't think that deeply about it. I mostly though "wow, this is messed up"
19:26 <@rattle> aestetix: I sorta got sick watching it.  That dude was being exploited for giggles.
19:26 <@Bahhumbug> And you thought you'd just share the offensiveness with others?  How giving of you.
19:27 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: I like exploring the extremes of society.
19:27 < aestetix> Pushing boundaries forces us to ask questions about assumptions we make.
19:27 <@Bahhumbug> There are communities for that.  What the fuck makes you think that this is one such?
19:27 <@rattle> Bahhumbug: Look, you need to shutup too.  You were just trying to shut someone out of an open community.  That's a crime here too.
19:28 <@rattle> CAN YOU PEOPLE TRY TO BE ENLIGHTENED.
19:28 < aestetix> rattle: that would require LSD.
19:28 <@Bahhumbug> rattle: Take a step back?  Don't tell me to shut up.  I've not treated you with that level of disrepect and I don't appreciate it from you.
19:29 <@rattle> If, this community is doing the type of stuff it set out to do, right now, we sit back and watch you two come to terms.
19:29 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: one thing I will point out is that IRC is simply a persona for me. :)
19:30 <@rattle> aestetix: Oh, that's bullshit.  I see the same you I see everywhere.  You just show different sides.
19:30 <@Bahhumbug> Your persona needs some work.
19:30 <@rattle> Ha!
19:31 <@rattle> Bahhumbug: And, I did ask you a very direct question.  What is your connection with and understanding of the SE2600 movement that this channel is the basis of?
19:32 <@Bahhumbug> You did ask.  And I choose not to go into my history any more than I already did.
19:32 < aestetix> rattle: he's cerkit.
19:32 <@Bahhumbug> Suffice it to say I probably have as long of a connection to 2600 than anyone in this channel.
19:32 <@rattle> I'll give you a hint..  It's basically been a failure.  This is not a nexus for the hacking community in the southeast.  It's a fucking drama clown show.
19:33 <@rattle> Bahhumbug: Really?  Cerkit?
19:33 <@Bahhumbug> As far as _this_ specific 2600-related venue goes, I don't know all the history.  I do know what has been mentioned her on occastion and that's it.
19:33 <@Bahhumbug> Fuck no.
19:33 <@Bahhumbug> Get real.
19:33 <@rattle> I didn't think so, but that was sorry funny..
19:33 <@rattle> Gotta admit
19:33 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: which 2600 chapter were you associated with?
19:34 <@rattle> Fuck all that..  What do you hack on?
19:34 < aestetix> Oh, better question.
19:35 <@rattle> . . .
19:36 < aestetix> Rephrase: rattle's question was better than mine.
19:39 <@rattle> Ok, I'll go first.  I pratice information warfare and cyber counterintelligence.  My technical strengths lie in infrastructure security, and I've got an educational background in communications.
19:39 <@rattle> And I'd much rather discuss any of that than community drama.
19:40 <@rattle> Next?
19:40 <@Bahhumbug> I would as well.
19:40 <@rattle> What do you hack on?
19:40 <@rattle> aestetix: What do you hack on?
19:41 < aestetix> rattle: I'm currently working on a project doing a statistical analysis of how people actually practice trust levels with key signing.
19:41 <@Bahhumbug> Senior Systems Engineered with 34 years of experience on virtually every *nix platform that anyone heard of in the past 30 years including things like Bull that died out decades ago.  Strong emphasis on host and network security dating back to '81 on CDC mainframes.  I no longer do development but have done kernel level development, specifically
19:41 <@Bahhumbug> device drivers for older x86 UNIX releases.
19:42 < aestetix> At least, that's one of the projects. More focused on the IDESG thing next week, as I won't be presenting the other stuff for another month or so.
19:42 <@Bahhumbug> My "hacking" these days is nothing more than perl/bash/some C to make day-to-day management tasks easier.
19:42 <@rattle> Bahhumbug: On modern platforms, what type of telemetry collection you do beyond syslog collection?
19:43 <@rattle> aestetix: How do you see people such as me that can't seperate their nyms from their real names?
19:43 <@Bahhumbug> rattle: I would love to continue this _real_ conversation but I need to head out to deal with family shit across the road.  I'll be back later, however.
19:43 <@rattle> (I'm trying to stoke up real conversation that's the type this community should be having)
19:43 < aestetix> rattle: there's no reason your legal name cannot be the same as any nym you use.
19:45 <@rattle> Why would I want it to be?  My legal name, the name I use, and my nym are all different..  They are all connected..  And it's NEVER been a problem.
19:45 < aestetix> rattle: that's up to you. Some people have reasons for keeping things separate, others don't.
19:46 < aestetix> For example, I really like that I can use twitter to ask hard questions about things without being worried about getting fired for it.
19:46 <@rattle> Nod..  Not going to deny that.  For me, and many of the high profile folks I deal with that have nyms and names, we all sorta chuckle about it like it's not a big deal.
19:46 <@rattle> So I'm actually curious about your fascination with it.
19:46 < aestetix> And for the people who use nyms to commit crimes.... you're telling me there are no forensic ways to catch them?
19:47 < aestetix> Fascination?
19:47 <@rattle> I see that as a totally different thing.
19:47 <@rattle> There is identity in terms of what's yours and how you have control of it...
19:48 < aestetix> Fascination?
19:48 < aestetix> er
19:48 < aestetix> .... and?
19:49 <@rattle> From a sociology perspective, it's interesting.  But you seem way tooo interested.  :)
19:50 <@Evilpig> rattle: fwiw I have to think on your name for a minute before I remember it.  same with dagmar.  I've just known y'all as nyms for too long I guess
19:50 <@rattle> In all seriousness, I do think it's very important to protect the right of any individual to take on a persona and maintain an identity that can be seperate from themselves.
19:50 < aestetix> rattle: let me put it this way. It's strange to me when someone who is otherwise logical acts in a completely authoritarian way about something.
19:51 < aestetix> Such as insisting that you use your legal name on google, facebook, whatever.
19:51 < aestetix> And that dissonance makes me ask a lot of other questions.
19:51 < aestetix> Does that start to answer your question?
19:52 <@rattle> Yes, and I totally get that.  I guess a part of it is that it's been so easy for me to buck the system in that regard..
19:52 < aestetix> rattle: the other element is that *everyone* has a name story. And they all tend to be different.
19:53 <@rattle> And, I've always had a certian degree of exposure to "query" my whole life where I got very comfortable with it.  I'm very millenial in that regard I guess.
19:53 < aestetix> hipster
19:53 <@rattle> Ha!  Fuck you
19:54 < aestetix> But yeah. I know a number of people who are escorts. If their legal name got linked with that job, they would be fucked.
19:54 < aestetix> And I mean.... who would have thought Daniel Schmidt was a nym?
19:54 <@rattle> You don't even know the half of it.. Once you start to do things like own property, your name winds up in so many public records it becomes futile to even protect information about where you live.
19:55 < aestetix> Or go through a divorce and get remarried....
19:55 < aestetix> Or go through a gender transition.
19:55 < aestetix> Or have a name with characters the computer can't read.
19:56 <@rattle> Which, FTR, if you figure out where I live..  You get a geoloc at the end of a private drive in an intersection that is heavily trafficed and monitored..
19:56 -!- PeteDaGuru [~PeteDaGur@user-0c99bgh.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:57 < aestetix> rattle: the other reason it persists in being interesting is because there's so much corporate effort to enforce names on everyone.
19:57 < aestetix> And government.
19:57 < aestetix> Such as in china, where you must use your national ID to get on the internet, and if you have a website, you must have your ID at the bottom of it
19:58 < aestetix> http://www.china.org.cn/
19:58 < RangerZ> Tom Cotton has put that proposal forward to prevent Liberalism on the Internet in the US
19:58 < PigBot> Title: China.org.cn - China news, weather, business, travel language courses (at www.china.org.cn)
19:58 < aestetix> the ICP number at the bottom is required by law
19:59 < aestetix> http://english.gov.cn/
19:59 <@rattle> I do not believe I implied it was uninteresting at all..
19:59 < aestetix> there's another example
19:59 < aestetix> Registration Number: 05070218
19:59 <@rattle> Please, don't even get me started on China.
19:59 < aestetix> Every website with a .CN domain name has that
20:01 <@rattle> Being a Chinese hacker without being in league with the government is tough.
20:01 < aestetix> So in China's case, it's fucking obvious why they want your legal name to be your only name.
20:01 < aestetix> In the US, not as obvious.
20:02 <@rattle> Not to disagree with the principal of your thought, but you are over simplifying.  They actually have a genuine issue with identifying people in china by name because there are so many name conflicts.
20:02 < aestetix> Fair enough.
20:03 <@rattle> I'm sure your familiar with the intelligence cognative failure issue of mirror imaging?
20:03 < aestetix> sue.
20:03 < aestetix> Sure
20:03 -!- benthemeek [~benthemee@c-98-211-6-177.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:03 < aestetix> Although that doesn't explain the requiring a reg number on every website
20:03 <@rattle> Well, there you go.  The main reason they want to give everyone unique identifiers is because of name conflicts.
20:03 -!- Catonic_ [~catonic@adsl-98-83-45-123.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #se2600
20:04 <@rattle> Every other issue just lines up with that, in a very convienient way..
20:04 < aestetix> If only that were true ;)
20:04 <@rattle> Oh, and they want complete control of all information.  I thought that was a given..
20:04 -!- Catonic [~catonic@adsl-98-83-45-123.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:04 < aestetix> The question is.... why do name conflicts matter?
20:04 < aestetix> haha
20:05 <@rattle> It's like the difference between detective and preventative controls in infosec...
20:05 < aestetix> I'm Bob Jones. My kid is Bob Jones.
20:05 <@rattle> When it comes to the nationwide network stuff, USG in general only wants detective controls.  CN wants preventative.
20:06 <@rattle> But both are totally into the idea of offensive capabilities.  There's all the QUANTUM shit that everyone knows about these days..
20:06 < aestetix> USG only wants that, but they also have to deal with the corporations, which want to turn those detective controls into profit.
20:06 <@rattle> But it's not like USG is the only one playing that game..
20:06 < aestetix> But the USG tries to claim moral superiority.
20:07 <@rattle> No, the media you watch claims moral superiority.
20:07 < aestetix> So when Obama says the US is the best country in the world, that's not moral superiority?
20:07 < aestetix> Thank god we have Ted Cruz and Rand Paul to keep Real ID from happening.
20:08 <@rattle> If I spent enough time, I could find almost every leader of every country proclaiming theirs the best in the world.
20:08 <@rattle> Anyway..  Fun..  Gotta tune out.
20:08 < aestetix> ok, nite nite
20:08 < aestetix> I should sleep too
20:08  * aestetix hugs Bahhumbug 
20:14 -!- aestetix was kicked from #se2600 by rattle [I do want to make it clear you are an asshole.  Good night.]
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20:48 <@Evilpig> my step-brother just called me to tell me that he bought http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-alpha/pd?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&fl=p&~ck=mn
20:48 < PigBot> Title: Alienware Alpha | Dell (at www.dell.com)
20:48 <@Evilpig> he bought it for a home media pc
20:48 <@Evilpig> then went on to tell me he has an hdmi cable coming out of that into his receiver and an optical audio cable going to his receiver and he can't get anything but stereo sound
21:26 <@Bahhumbug> Evilpig: Please remove my flags from the channel.  As well as gatekeeper's.  Thanks.
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21:26 -!- Bahhumbug [jrd@serentos/admin/jrd] has left #se2600 ["Learn where everything you take for granted on a daily basis in IT originated from: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=4BFC3F13B846707B"]
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22:33 <@Evilpig> HAHAHAHAHAAH wow
22:36 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: I trust you made him aware that unless the media source is 5.1 he'll have to actually force his audio amp to re-mux that or at least mirror the channels, right?
22:37 <@Dagmar> I have seen basically no equipment that actually uses all the speakers from a simple stereo output when you didn't tell it to do so.
22:46 <@Dagmar> I'm starting to really like the review model Google Play uses
22:46 <@Dagmar> Yeah, people can post bogus reviews, but anyone citing an actual _problem_ I can generally track down on G+ and find out more information
22:47 <@Dagmar> Thankfully the package I've got up there at the moment is fairly special purpose, so even if there's a dozen Stephen Ledbetters... the one who plays Ingress is almost certainly the one I want to talk to.  Heh
23:31 < _NSAKEY> Does this mean Bahhumbug won't be back?
23:32 <@Dagmar> Nah he'll be back
23:32 < _NSAKEY> Well, yeah. Few people announce they're quitting and stick to it. It just doesn't work out that way.
23:48 <@Evilpig> Dagmar: the file he was trying to play had 5.1 audio but he was using vlc to play it and it was forcing everything to stereo
--- Log closed Sat Apr 11 00:00:16 2015