--- Log opened Wed Feb 04 00:00:22 2015 00:04 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: I have just implemented an instance boolean named liveCanary. :) 00:08 <@Dagmar> fuuuuck https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8-Wc_hIQAA00kb.jpg:large 00:09 <@Dagmar> https://twitter.com/PzFeed/status/562832274434322433 00:09 < PigBot`> Title: Breaking News Feed on Twitter: "BREAKING PHOTOS: The wing of TransAsia GE235 clipped a taxi cab on the highway. (TVBS) http://t.co/tR7BXX0FQy" (at twitter.com) 00:09 <@Dagmar> It's not ever day your insurance adjuster has to sit in on a claim involving being hit by a _plane_ 00:09 < aestetix> ... 00:09 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09 * northrup blinks and rubs eyes 00:09 <@Dagmar> aestetix: Did you get that link from earlier? 00:10 < aestetix> ok wow those pics are fucking scary 00:10 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #se2600 00:10 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o SuMo_D] by ChanServ 00:10 < aestetix> what link 00:10 <@Dagmar> It's an imgur link showing the fallacy of availability that Sarkeesian is exploiting 00:11 < aestetix> oh boy 00:11 < aestetix> Have asians just forgotten how to make or fly planes? 00:12 <@oddball> Did they lose another one? 00:12 < aestetix> http://boingboing.net/2015/02/03/plane-crashes-in-taiwan-river.html 00:12 < PigBot`> Title: Plane carrying 58 crashes in Taiwan river, injuries and deaths reported, rescue ongoing - Boing Boing (at boingboing.net) 00:12 <@Dagmar> Yeah but at least this one landed in the river, so almost everyone survived 00:13 -!- InfoSecDog [~user@c-50-155-6-109.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:14 <@northrup> Nice... 6 months after their last crash that killed 47 when they flew a plane into the ground. 00:18 <@Dagmar> Well, they also have a looooot of people, which necessarily means a lot of planes. 00:18 <@Dagmar> If Iceland had this many crashes, then there would be reason to worry about them. 00:19 <@northrup> Ha!, good point... I wonder how many AirTrans flights there are per day? 00:20 <@northrup> err... TransAsia 00:22 <@northrup> LOL... they have a fleet of 23 plains... err, 22 now... 00:22 < _NSAKEY> Too soon? 00:25 <@Dagmar> Purty! http://imgur.com/a/dPtzK#1 00:25 < PigBot`> Title: SSAO "Low" - Imgur (at imgur.com) 00:25 <@Dagmar> Trigger warning: WoW 00:38 < RangerZ1> and the train crash in upper NY tonight too :/ 00:38 < RangerZ1> 400 people on that train, 7 killed 00:38 < RangerZ1> like a dozen more injured 00:46 < RangerZ1> so.... Harper Lee "wrote" a prequel to: "To Catch a Mockingbird" ... maybe... 00:47 < RangerZ1> shels blind/deaf now, and her friend/laywer 'found' the book, and is publishing it 'for her' 00:47 < RangerZ1> she's* 00:47 < RangerZ1> a book 'was' written , but she thought it was lost... 00:48 < aestetix> actually to catch a mockingbird was the prequel 00:50 < RangerZ1> ahh, yeah I guess thats right.. 00:51 <@Dagmar> hahahahahaha 00:51 <@Dagmar> oh god 00:52 <@Dagmar> http://www.reddit.com/r/Atlanta/comments/2ujtdo/suspicious_package_seen_on_ponce/ 00:53 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: .... 00:54 < RangerZ1> you ready to be on the executive comitte with amber? 00:55 <@Dagmar> I would rather not deal with her at all, to be honest 00:55 < aestetix> Dagmar: you could give her exlax cookies 00:55 <@Dagmar> Man that dude is going to get sooo many upvotes 00:55 <@Dagmar> At least 1,000 before morning 00:56 < aestetix> speaking of exlax brb 00:59 -!- vyrus001_ [~Vyrus001@209.159.137.117] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:59 -!- Vyrus001 [~Vyrus001@209.159.137.117] has joined #se2600 01:01 < RangerZ1> wow... Jordan not playing games with hostage negotiations ... 01:02 < RangerZ1> they just executed two Al Queda members when a Jordanian pilot was executed (by being burned alive) 01:03 <@Dagmar> As gruesome as this sounds... good for them. 01:04 < dfused> at least they didnt cower before their demands 01:04 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: You realize the point of that reddit link is that the police detonated a _camera_ that was part of an art installation this morning 01:05 < RangerZ1> nope 01:05 <@Dagmar> Yeah 01:05 <@Dagmar> It confused someone so it was clearly a threat and had to be destroyed 01:06 < RangerZ1> huh? 01:07 < RangerZ1> I see a pic of a black guy from that atlanta link 01:07 < dfused> impossible. there are no black ppl in atl 01:08 < RangerZ1> nah, apparently from the comments its Briarcliff, whih is apparently 100% Blacks 01:09 < RangerZ1> (*shrugs*, couldn't think of a good come back to dfused's comment) lol 01:09 < dfused> in know... I was debating where to go from here if it kept on.... 01:09 < dfused> s/in/I 01:12 < RangerZ1> also... apparently *putting on glasses* to see the 'package' helps with context... 01:12 < dfused> giggity 01:13 <@Dagmar> heheheh 01:13 <@Dagmar> You need glasses to see that? 01:14 < RangerZ1> so in other news... It was tuesday... http://www.13wham.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/house-votes-repeal-health-care-law-19799.shtml 01:14 < PigBot`> Title: House votes to repeal health care law - 13WHAM ABC Rochester NY - Top Stories (at www.13wham.com) 01:14 < RangerZ1> because... thats what the House should be doing... 01:14 < dfused> white house has already said they'l veto 01:15 < RangerZ1> yeah 01:15 < RangerZ1> part of me thinks it is a brilliant idea to make the Middle east deal with its own problems 01:16 < RangerZ1> but... saudi arabia is building a WW2/berlin style _WALL_ along the border with Iraq 01:17 < dfused> thats......interesting. 01:17 < dfused> I'm not quite sure what to make of that. 01:17 < RangerZ1> http://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabia-is-building-a-600-mile-great-wall-to-shield-from-isis-2015-1 01:17 < RangerZ1> but... it doesn't protect the border with Kuwait or Jordan... 01:18 < RangerZ1> if I was Jordan... I'd just evacuate the right part of my country and build a super wide highway from syria's border to Saudi's border 01:18 < RangerZ1> "here you go" 01:19 < RangerZ1> but what I think WILL happen... Kurdistan is going to fight ALL the way to the Med. 01:19 < RangerZ1> and have a seaport 01:19 < RangerZ1> since that strip of land is all ethnically kurdish 01:20 < dfused> thatd make for a great ukraine distraction 01:20 < RangerZ1> they are already 2/3 of the way there 01:21 < RangerZ1> http://www.vox.com/2014/10/6/6918763/kobane-isis-where-is-kobane-turkey 01:21 < RangerZ1> there is a map there 01:22 < RangerZ1> a year old... now... 01:23 < RangerZ1> ok.. .nvm... oct... not feb 01:24 < RangerZ1> http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03078/kurdish-route2_3078377c.jpg 01:24 < RangerZ1> there is a better one 01:25 <@Dagmar> I am almost surprised it took me this long to realize I just needed to implement a dead canary 01:25 <@Dagmar> I'm thinking about renaming it to deadParrot tho 01:25 < RangerZ1> umm.... what? 01:25 < RangerZ1> you making a coal mining app? 01:25 < RangerZ1> hehe 01:25 <@Dagmar> Okay, so... the last remaining baffling bug with the widget was that when you update the package, the thing resets to defaults 01:25 < dfused> http://backwardsandbeyond.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dead-parrot-tops/dead_parrot.jpg 01:26 <@Dagmar> I could not figure out why 01:26 <@Dagmar> It turns out that this is a time when you are *guaranteed* to lose all storage 01:26 < RangerZ1> yep 01:26 <@Dagmar> ...and the instance variables get reset to their initialized values 01:27 <@Dagmar> So, I just start with protected boolean liveCanary = false; 01:27 <@Dagmar> ...and everywhere that it matters, _if_ it's false, I go and gather the information like the sharedPreference values and so on, and then set liveCanary == true; 01:27 <@Dagmar> Up to and including doing an update to the heartbeat pendingIntent 01:28 <@Dagmar> It just makes the logic a little cleaner to use deadParrot 01:28 <@Dagmar> Plus, it's funnier 01:29 < dfused> its not dead....its just sleeping 01:29 <@Dagmar> This is an EX-parrot. 01:30 < dfused> http://i.imgur.com/ZqLFkqL.jpg 01:30 < dfused> and now for something completely different.... 01:31 < dfused> ok...with that, I'm off for a bit to "hopefully" sleep for some unkopwn amount of time. 01:39 <@Dagmar> Okay. No need for a parrot now. 01:39 <@Dagmar> ...and now we will revive the canary using absolutely no necromancy whatsoever. 01:39 <@Dagmar> CommonWidgetry.startHeartbeat(context, createClockTickIntent(context)); 01:39 <@Dagmar> liveCanary = true; 01:39 * Dagmar dons sunglasses.. 01:39 * RangerZ1 welcomes dfused back in 20minutes 02:14 < dfused> bloody hell 02:14 <@Dagmar> I just filled Nadia in on the Atlanta suspicious package from this morning 02:14 <@Dagmar> ...and told her about the suspicious package on Ponce. 02:14 <@Dagmar> I'll know in a minute if she googled it. 02:15 < RangerZ1> dfused: that took longer than expected, welcome back 02:15 < dfused> dammit. need slleeep 02:15 < RangerZ1> dfused: I've slept like 12hrs the past two nights, and jus napped for a few more... from like 8:30 to 11:30 or so 02:15 < RangerZ1> fighting a cold or something 02:15 < RangerZ1> feel much better now 02:16 < dfused> well.. I'm gonna go actually lay in bed rather than the couch. pehaps I'll have better luck. 02:17 <@Dagmar> Sounds like you need the help of the all-natural sleep aid... vodka. 02:17 < dfused> yeah... I'm all outta rum. =\ 02:17 < RangerZ1> just ask JILL and ROSIE to help you out 02:17 < dfused> anyway ttfn 02:26 < aestetix> I can help you 02:26 <@Dagmar> NOPE. 02:31 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Off into this... Real world place...] 02:36 -!- sasquatc4 [~sasquatc4@73.181.12.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:38 -!- sasquatc4 [~sasquatc4@73.181.12.16] has joined #se2600 02:41 < RangerZ1> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/02/02/windows-10-automatic-install/ 02:41 < PigBot`> Title: Windows 10 Installs Automatically On Windows 7 And Windows 8 - Forbes (at www.forbes.com) 02:41 < RangerZ1> well that makes almost too much sense 02:42 < RangerZ1> you can upgrade win 7 and 8 to 10 from windows update 02:43 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/304003-joystiq-shut-down-by-aol-along-with-massively-and-wow-insider/ 02:43 < PigBot`> Title: Joystiq Shut Down By AOL Along With Massively And WoW Insider - Tech News and Reviews - Linus Tech Tips (at linustechtips.com) 02:44 < RangerZ1> wow (no pun intended)... but wow insider/joystiq throwing AOL under the bus 02:44 <@Dagmar> Yeah heard about it this afternoon 02:44 < RangerZ1> no i mean the quotes from the employees 02:45 < RangerZ1> from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t5H9Ps8NGU 02:45 < PigBot`> Title: Joystiq, WoW Insider, and Massively Will Shut Down - The Know - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) 02:45 <@Dagmar> I actually heard about it because I talk to some of them 02:45 <@Dagmar> Keep in mind one of the channels I'm in is a dev channel 02:45 < RangerZ1> 40% year/year pageview growth = 50% pay cut 02:45 < RangerZ1> um.... 02:47 < RangerZ1> _NSAKEY: found of pic of you from this upcoming meeting http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-02-Stephen-Colbert.gif 02:47 < RangerZ1> lol 02:47 -!- sasquatc4 [~sasquatc4@73.181.12.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:52 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGQclMXbo5I This pilot could be great... or need buried with ET out in the desert... 02:52 < PigBot`> Title: The Titans TV Series Line-Up Revealed - IGN News - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) 03:33 <@Dagmar> Wow. Okay. It's long past time I ate something. 03:33 <@Dagmar> I just actually read the instructions on the Cup O' Noodles. 03:44 <@Dagmar> Also, it appears that I have invoked the ire of the PrivacyManager somehow now 03:44 <@Dagmar> Interesting. 03:44 <@Dagmar> Looks like targetSdkVersion has an affect on that somehow 03:46 <@Dagmar> Very interesing. I now have to explicitly address the Intent to the widget class 03:46 <@Dagmar> Doing it via an implicit just plain stopped working. 03:51 <@Dagmar> I probably shouldn't have touched that number. 06:05 -!- sync350 [~sync@c-24-99-250-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 06:05 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o sync350] by ChanServ 06:33 < RangerZ1> so apparently telling people the truth that they are killing their kids, or making them blind of deaf from potentially measles ... doesn't help 06:33 < RangerZ1> it makes people feel defensive 06:33 < RangerZ1> lol 06:39 -!- dfused [~dfused@64.203.232.38.dyn-cm-pool-36.pool.hargray.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:11 -!- Bahhumbug_ [jrd@gerdesas.gerdesas.com] has joined #se2600 07:11 -!- Bahhumbug_ [jrd@gerdesas.gerdesas.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:11 -!- Bahhumbug_ [jrd@serentos/admin/jrd] has joined #se2600 07:11 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Bahhumbug_] by ChanServ 07:11 -!- noogums [~n00gums@24-196-6-151.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #se2600 07:15 -!- _specialk_ [~specialk@nacho.whatbox.ca] has joined #se2600 07:15 -!- _specialk_ [~specialk@nacho.whatbox.ca] has quit [Changing host] 07:15 -!- _specialk_ [~specialk@unaffiliated/specialk/x-2811995] has joined #se2600 07:21 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: _special1_, scoob, @Bahhumbug, n00gums 07:21 -!- Netsplit over, joins: scoob 07:31 -!- RangerZ1 [~rangerz@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:34 -!- RangerZ [~rangerz@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 07:34 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o RangerZ] by ChanServ 07:49 -!- sync350 [~sync@c-24-99-250-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Screw you guys, I'm goin home] 07:55 -!- RangerZ1 [~rangerz@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 08:15 <@opticron> RangerZ1, to get past that, you have to defeat their trust in whatever shill convinced them that vaccines cause autism 08:16 < RangerZ1> yeah, but too many people 'believe' what they 'know' 08:16 < RangerZ1> and showing them evidence to the contrary just makes them more zealous 08:16 <@opticron> I wonder how many of them just distrust science in general 08:17 < RangerZ1> thats not it 08:17 -!- Bahhumbug_ is now known as Bahhumbug 08:17 < RangerZ1> a LOT of these anti-vaxxers are otherwise pro-science 08:17 < RangerZ1> they just have mistrust of bit pharma 08:17 * opticron sighs 08:17 < RangerZ1> etc 08:17 < RangerZ1> which is NOT something to be shamed... 08:17 < RangerZ1> BUT... they have only read 'part' of the relevant info 08:18 < RangerZ1> the other night I went and got the OFFICIAL ingredient list from MERCK about the MMR shot 08:18 < RangerZ1> and literally everything involved was safe 08:18 < RangerZ1> they even took OUT the preservative that people said they had issues with 08:19 < RangerZ1> and ALL that did was 'prove' that they weren't safe in the first place 08:19 < RangerZ1> :/ 08:20 <@NotLarry> wow, nice mail yesterday RangerZ1. That was kind of the question I asked the night I got elected. 08:20 <@NotLarry> Oh fuck, she who shall not be named on the board? 08:21 < RangerZ1> no 08:21 < RangerZ1> just no 08:21 < RangerZ1> I'll run first 08:21 < RangerZ1> and hoenstly I don't 'want' to run 08:21 < RangerZ1> but if I have to, to stop that... fine, so be it 08:22 <@NotLarry> Dagmar: you still go to bongo? 08:22 < RangerZ1> I really just want all this non-sense done/over-with, so that we can have 'meetings' and not deal with all of this every month over & over 08:22 < RangerZ1> NotLarry: my understanding is that he does, I met up with him there last year 08:23 <@NotLarry> Well, the bylaws don't mention a vice president, does that mean I don't really have an office?:) 08:23 <@NotLarry> "Jesus loves you so that I don't have to." 08:24 <@Evilpig> NotLarry: I flat out said she isn't eligible. While my say so might not carry much weight directly I will flame that bitch into a smoldering crater should she make an effort to be on the board 08:25 <@Evilpig> as I told elonka, the vp role wasn't specified in the bylaws because we didn't want it to be a required position to be staffed 08:26 <@Evilpig> but that position was originally intended for someone looking to run the organization at a later time. they'd be there to learn how things are run and make the contacts needed to keep it operating without being directly responsible for the current operations 08:30 < aestetix> hahah 08:30 < aestetix> "If child vaccinations were administered by Whole Foods, 90% of the anti-vaxx movement would evaporate overnight." 08:31 < RangerZ1> Evilpig: I'm _really_ curious to see is she shows up to friday's meetings 08:31 < RangerZ1> I think she will now 08:31 < RangerZ1> just to try and get a board seat 08:33 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez! 08:34 <@NotLarry> Morning slut 08:34 < RangerZ1> NotLarry: don't insult Sluts that way 08:36 <@NotLarry> I'm a little frightened of her. She smiles at me while tweeting degrading and hurtful things about me. I feel bullied when she who shall not be named is around. 08:37 <@Evilpig> NotLarry: you can use her name. it's CrazyPants 08:38 < RangerZ1> NotLarry: FYI, there was 2 emails that I sent out 08:38 <@Evilpig> was the other to your russian bride? 08:39 < RangerZ1> 1 almost 1.5 weeks ago, was a written request for the books to be brought , the one last night was me throwing my hands up after ben didn't seem to understand the gravity of the need for written documentation between the non-profit and outside companies, etc (the money owed to Dink/DInk's company) 08:40 < RangerZ1> the problem is >>> I still have NO IDEA which it is... to dink personally or his company... how much 'exactly' and what 'repayment deals' were made around the debt 08:40 <@Evilpig> agreed. 08:40 < RangerZ1> apparently dru + elonka filmed VIDEOS for dink's company 08:40 < RangerZ1> to help repay the debt 08:41 <@Dolemite> And even if they do cough it up, the fact that you had to DEMAND IT repeatedly is a big problem 08:41 < RangerZ1> but ... under what terms... 08:41 < RangerZ1> etc 08:41 <@Evilpig> I'm still saying that if he paid the hotel directly and there was no agreement then there is no liability and nothing owed. 08:41 <@Dolemite> Well, Elonka works for a subsidiary of Dink's company, now 08:41 <@Evilpig> o.O 08:41 <@Dolemite> Or if not subsidiary, there is some level of partnership, according to the announcement about her forming the studio 08:41 <@NotLarry> Does anyone know if she who shall not be named has guns or weapons? 08:42 <@Dolemite> NotLarry: Just her vagina 08:42 < RangerZ1> NotLarry: she isn't legally allowed to have any 08:42 < RangerZ1> apparently 08:42 < RangerZ1> ;) 08:42 < RangerZ1> even TN state was like... 'fuck that nonsense' 08:43 <@Evilpig> NotLarry: you can't get a gun permit if you're crazy 08:43 <@Dolemite> Right, and only people with permits have guns 08:43 < RangerZ1> she has past mental issues 08:43 <@Dolemite> Because IT'S THE LAW 08:43 <@NotLarry> RangerZ1: I was uncomfortable with the fact that there is an apearence of serious financial missmanagement that the members were not made aware of before the vote. I was also lead to believe that the current President had said this would all be discussed before the vote. 08:43 < RangerZ1> NotLarry: agreed 08:43 <@Evilpig> while this is true. she's also known to be on gubment assistence and unless she stole a gun I don't think she could purchase one even from a gun show 08:44 <@NotLarry> Well, the TRO form asked. 08:45 < RangerZ1> Evilpig: I don't take -anything- she says as fact 08:48 <@Evilpig> RangerZ1: she lives with her mother. we know she doesn't work. what more do you need? 08:48 < RangerZ1> I lived with my mom for a long time too 08:48 < RangerZ1> fuck moving out when the economy went to shit 08:48 < RangerZ1> lol 08:48 < RangerZ1> but... I did have a job (let alone school) 08:49 <@Evilpig> employed, not failing out of law school. 08:49 <@Evilpig> you're kinda making my point 08:53 <@Bahhumbug> Wasn't she working for some random Nashville city division a while back? 08:54 <@Evilpig> volunteering i thought 08:54 <@Bahhumbug> Ahh. Yes, that may well be. 08:54 <@Evilpig> hard to hold a job when you can't/won't drive 08:55 <@Bahhumbug> Meh. Public transit. Or... walk. Cthulhu knows she needs the exercise. 08:55 <@Evilpig> there you go betting against heart disease for evolution 08:56 <@Bahhumbug> :) 08:57 <@RangerZ> I'm not even going to insult her, its below us... its like stealing candy from a disabled baby 08:57 <@Evilpig> who wants to see some cable porn? 08:58 <@RangerZ> mid 90s slightly descrambled saturday night cinemax? 08:58 <@Evilpig> https://www.dropbox.com/s/smvo3t0jzlobcqy/2015-02-02%2009.46.48.jpg?dl=0 08:58 <@Evilpig> better 08:58 <@RangerZ> I don't get it 08:58 <@RangerZ> that is how a rack is suppose to look 08:58 <@RangerZ> ;) 08:59 <@Evilpig> https://www.dropbox.com/s/44lr8efn7wt3al5/2015-02-02%2009.46.39.jpg?dl=0 08:59 <@Evilpig> the thin black cables are 10g DAC 09:01 <@RangerZ> so... 09:01 <@RangerZ> at least you aren't a taxi driver in taiwan ... who had a plane clip(& crush) your car today... 09:05 -!- Synx|hm [~Synx@unaffiliated/synx-hm/x-1623004] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 09:09 -!- PeteDaGuru [~PeteDaGur@user-0c99bgh.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #se2600 09:16 <@RangerZ> ohh look... http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2015/02/03/square-enix-2014-financial-results-released-income-doubles/133115/ 09:16 < PigBot`> Title: Square Enix 2014 Financial Results Released, Income Doubles | Hardcore Gamer (at www.hardcoregamer.com) 09:17 <@RangerZ> make good games... you make more money... 09:20 -!- RangerZ1 [~rangerz@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:26 <@Bahhumbug> Who woulda thunk it? 09:29 -!- InfoSecDog [~user@c-50-155-6-109.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 10:06 -!- sasquatc4 [~sasquatc4@73.181.12.16] has joined #se2600 10:07 -!- dfused [~dfused@64.203.232.38.dyn-cm-pool-36.pool.hargray.net] has joined #se2600 10:26 < dfused> uhg...over slept 10:31 -!- RangerZ1 [~rangerz@DHCP-129-59-122-54.n1.vanderbilt.edu] has joined #se2600 10:31 < RangerZ1> ok, lets try this again... 10:31 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le63qgEwPIY 10:31 < PigBot`> Title: Power Rangers Actor Wont be Charged in Stabbing Death - IGN News - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) 10:32 < RangerZ1> there we go... hehe 10:49 < RangerZ1> first sign you probably didn't make the right long-term moral or political choice... http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.640767 10:49 < RangerZ1> [Israeli foreign minister commends Jordan for executing Iraqi terrorists] 10:50 < RangerZ1> I would have no problem for executing them...for crimes THEY commited... but not for crimes OTHERS committed 10:50 < RangerZ1> which is what happened :/ 10:51 < dfused> meh 10:52 < RangerZ1> and honestly... we don't want that... 10:52 < dfused> the administrators/develpoers for ec-councils website... shoudl be shot. 10:52 < RangerZ1> i refuse to go to jail for something weeve does b/c I'm in this channel 10:53 < RangerZ1> dfused: why? 10:53 < aestetix> RangerZ1: why would you? 10:53 < RangerZ1> aestetix: because it is allowing guilt by association 10:53 < aestetix> uh 10:54 < RangerZ1> the two prisoners being held in Jordan had NOTHING to do with the execution of the jordanian pilot 10:54 < dfused> its always been an absolute train wreck. logins dont work half the time, link are almost all broken... and now that they redone it all... now I cant even login again. its like its administered by ppl who have absolutely no clue about web pages... 10:55 < RangerZ1> sure, keep them in prison, and throw away the key (if thats the punishment in that country) 10:55 < RangerZ1> but punishing them for being 'associated' with the people who killed the pilot... :/ 10:57 <@Bahhumbug> Tit for tat. 10:57 <@Bahhumbug> If you treat our prisoners well we will return the favor. If you mistreat them, however, we will return in kind. 10:57 < dfused> jordan.... where so long as the guy marries the girl after the fact, he can rape the hell out of her regardless of age.. 10:57 <@Bahhumbug> Irrelevant. 10:58 <@Bahhumbug> (I don't condone it, but that's a different conversation.) 10:58 < dfused> its a conservative muslim legal system.. 10:58 <@Bahhumbug> Hence tit-for-tat. 10:58 <@shapr> good morning? 10:59 < RangerZ1> shapr: bad news 10:59 < RangerZ1> you and crazypants are on the special comittee for organizing PN19 11:00 <@Bahhumbug> That's just mean. 11:00 < RangerZ1> we convinced her that it was an 'important assignment that was needed by johnnyx' 11:00 <@Bahhumbug> You should apologize. 11:00 <@shapr> RangerZ1: wait what? 11:02 < RangerZ1> if you haven't paid attention... my emails kicked everyone's ass into gear on the mailing list... and now our own special snowflake thinks she is going to run for the non-profit oversight board... 11:03 -!- Genphlux [~Genphlux@63-237-5-34.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #se2600 11:03 < RangerZ1> and well.... I decided you were a good trooper and would kamikaze yourself for the good of society (the con/org too) 11:05 <@Evilpig> oh fuck me... 11:05 <@Evilpig> in other news, my friend's kid swallowed a penny this morning 11:05 <@Evilpig> tess [11:03 AM] 11:05 <@Evilpig> https://41.media.tumblr.com/fc8e6e80634d7f086de0145876955a76/tumblr_nj984bo0EQ1qd0eivo1_540.jpg 11:05 < RangerZ1> now now... you need to offer MUCH more money than that 11:05 < RangerZ1> Evilpig: and? 11:05 <@Evilpig> asked in dead honesty..... "is he gonna be okay?" 11:06 <@Evilpig> I ask the real question. "why did that need an x-ray? did they go for one just to have the story/picture?" 11:07 <@Evilpig> kids eat coins and poop em out every day... 11:08 < RangerZ1> as long as he doesn't eat enough change for the subway in NYC... he's probably fine 11:08 <@Evilpig> if it were quarters you'd still be fine. it's only $2.50 11:09 < dfused> still doesn't help with my copper deficiency 11:09 < RangerZ1> 250x pennies... 11:09 < RangerZ1> that would just put a 'weight' issue on his internal organs 11:09 < dfused> and his zinc would be in good shape 11:27 < aestetix> Evilpig: wow really? 11:28 < aestetix> So swallowing a coin doesn't hurt you? 11:28 < dfused> 0.o 11:29 <@Bahhumbug> How about you do a scientific experiment and consume coins until you feel some type of ill effect? 11:30 <@Bahhumbug> Bonus points for repeated x-rays during the process. 11:35 <@Dolemite> I'm sure that he's just training his kid to be a future drug mule 11:39 < dfused> holy shit... staples is going to buy office depot 11:40 <@Dolemite> They already bought Office Max 11:40 < dfused> I always thought of office dpot as larger than staples... 11:41 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: when I'm elected president, will you want a leather or a vinyl muzzle? 11:41 <@Evilpig> staples has this office supply side that delivers snacks and shit 11:41 <@Evilpig> we use them here 11:44 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: you just need one of these: https://i.imgur.com/pIeb5Ts.jpg 11:45 < aestetix> (potentially nsfw) 11:45 <@Bahhumbug> It's so cute that you think I would click one of your links. 11:58 <@Evilpig> http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/4/7977569/its-official-the-fcc-will-seek-to-reclassify-the-internet-as-a-utility 12:07 <@Dagmar> *sigh* grad students 12:07 <@Dagmar> I got an email from a student researcher at U of Utah about the septiclock widgets 12:07 <@Dagmar> It's completely broken. 12:08 <@Dagmar> Has one radiobutton set about will I or won't I take the survey. 12:08 <@Dagmar> No javascript hooks, no submit button. 12:08 <@Evilpig> adblock? 12:08 <@Evilpig> scriptblock? 12:09 <@Dagmar> Privacy Badger is showing a big red zero, so no 12:09 <@Dagmar> It doesn't link to anything but the qualtrics server 12:09 <@Dagmar> ...which I recognize 12:10 <@Dagmar> This guy just didn't test what he put into Qualtrics 12:23 < aestetix> ok so 12:23 < aestetix> FCC Chairman wants net neutrality 12:24 < aestetix> Did he just piss off Comcast and AT&T? 12:24 < aestetix> PigBot`: help 12:24 < PigBot`> aestetix: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. 12:25 <@Dagmar> LOL "Has Dagmar d'Surreal been formally registered as a business?" 12:26 < aestetix> @tell test 12:26 < PigBot`> aestetix: (tell ) -- Tells the whatever is. Use nested commands to your benefit here. 12:26 < aestetix> nice! 12:26 < aestetix> @tell Evilpig testing this out 12:26 < aestetix> Evilpig: does that work? 12:26 <@Evilpig> no 12:27 < aestetix> @tell aestetix test 12:27 < aestetix> ok there we go 12:27 <@Evilpig> great.. now i'm gonna have to disable that 12:27 < aestetix> @tell Corydon76 We miss you 12:27 < PigBot`> aestetix: Error: I haven't seen Corydon76, I'll let you do the telling. 12:27 < aestetix> fuck you 12:27 <@Evilpig> ha 12:28 < aestetix> @tell Corydon76 you should have a chat with Bahhumbug, he mentioned something that might interest you 12:28 < PigBot`> aestetix: Error: I haven't seen Corydon76, I'll let you do the telling. 12:29 < aestetix> @tell RangerZ1 penis 12:29 < aestetix> Evilpig: don't worry I won't abuse the bot 12:29 <@Evilpig> ignore aestetix /w 12 12:30 < aestetix> no! 12:30 < aestetix> Evilpig: you don't trust me? 12:31 <@Dagmar> Wait... the FCC did the right thing? 12:31 * Dagmar faints. 12:31 < aestetix> no 12:31 < aestetix> the FCC chairman did 12:32 <@Dagmar> He made an executive override or something? 12:38 < aestetix> oh god 12:38 < aestetix> https://sudoroom.org/hacking-inclusivity/ 12:38 < PigBot`> Title: Hacking Inclusivity | Sudo Room (at sudoroom.org) 12:39 <@Dagmar> the hell is up with their wording 12:39 <@Dagmar> "women, queers, people of color, people with disabilities" 12:40 <@Dagmar> HAve these people never heard of modes? 12:41 <@Dagmar> Also, fuck them for invoking "white supremacy" 12:43 <@Dagmar> If we publish a list of 'safer space" regulations, it will include formal prohibitions against the use of unstable mutagens, high explosives in quantities greater than 5mg, dark pacts with nameless elder gods, and a general discouragement of necromancy. 12:44 <@Dagmar> (an outright ban on it would probably be overkill) 12:48 < aestetix> oh wow 12:48 < aestetix> they have a "disability hack night" 12:50 < aestetix> https://sudoroom.org/events/disability-hack-night-2015-03-07/ 12:51 < PigBot`> Title: Disability Hack Night! | Sudo Room (at sudoroom.org) 12:55 <@Dagmar> This flies in the face of wishes to be treated like everyone else. 12:56 < aestetix> These hackerspaces seem to be filled with people who discovered computers two years ago by way of their macbooks and don't actually code or anything. 12:56 <@Dagmar> Regular people should show up and just say they're "sensitivity-disabled" 12:56 <@Dagmar> or perhaps "hypersensitivity-disabled" 12:56 < aestetix> well 12:56 <@Dagmar> aestetix: Yeah I'm noticing that 12:56 < aestetix> I for one am hyperfocused, so being constantly reminded about stupid shit pisses me off. 12:56 <@Dagmar> while it's not necessarily a bad thing, having a bunch of newbs showing up and demanding everyone change to suit them is a great way to destroy any community 12:57 < aestetix> If I have to spend an hour configuring a linux server, I do not want to be interrupted by one of those idiots who can't get the wifi on their mac working. 12:57 <@Dagmar> Meh I'll set aside a few minutes to help get people moving 12:57 < aestetix> Dagmar: but if it happens over and over again? 12:58 <@Dagmar> If it happens over and over again from the same person, they're probably retarded. 12:58 < aestetix> I was actually involved in sudo room early on 12:58 <@Dagmar> If it's different people, then you should ask yourself why the now not-quite-so-newb people aren't helping the newb people 12:58 < aestetix> I left when all the member meetings stopped being 30 minute status updates and started being 4 hour dirty laundry "conflict resolution" processes 12:59 -!- Synx|hm [~Synx@unaffiliated/synx-hm/x-1623004] has joined #se2600 12:59 < Synx|hm> somebody unfuck my brain with NAT and site to site vpn tunnels 12:59 <@Dagmar> DId you do double-NAT or something? 12:59 <@Dagmar> a.k.a. "the double-NATdo" 12:59 < Synx|hm> if nat is working correctly with portforwarding on the VPN the inbound connection should show a public IP correct? 13:00 < Synx|hm> i dont think i've double nat'd 13:00 <@Dagmar> I've seen it 13:00 <@Dagmar> Two hospitals, both using 127.127.x.x address space. 13:00 <@Dagmar> yes, there's a consultant out there I will eventually find and kill 13:00 < Synx|hm> here is what i have (OpenVPN-AS on remote server -> pfsense as VPN client -> VLAN) no nat on pfsense 13:00 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: One would think that being a meritocracy by nature, things involving hackers wouldn't have to have so much marketing about diversity and being inclusive. 13:01 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: exactly 13:01 <@Dagmar> You shouldn't need NAT for a VPN under normal conditions 13:01 <@Dagmar> ...so let's address that first. 13:01 < Synx|hm> so what im thinking is if somebody remote connects to my vpn IP i shoudl see it him my internal host on the VLAN with their public IP no? 13:01 < aestetix> "I don't care who you are or where you come from, if you come in and bring 0day, you're welcome here" 13:01 < _NSAKEY> Pretty much. 13:01 < aestetix> I remember someone threatened to call a group meeting when I downloaded the files to print a gun on the 3d printer 13:01 < aestetix> keep in mind it's a fucking 3d printed gun. 13:02 < _NSAKEY> I don't care about things like skin color or which reproductive system someone was born with. 13:02 <@Dagmar> aestetix: So it was capable of firing skittles? Maybe? 13:02 < aestetix> If you actually stuck a bullet in that thing the gun would break before it fired 13:02 <@Dagmar> Perhaps Red Hots 13:02 <@Dagmar> _NSAKEY: That sort of shit is precisely what I came to the internet to get away from 13:02 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: ok, so basically what im doing here is i have pfSense (my main home router/firewall) setup as a VPN client and serving that tunnel into a different VLAN, so when i plug a host at home into that vlan, pfsense hands it a nonroutable IP and forwards all traffic out the VPN tunnel 13:02 <@Dagmar> WE ARE ALL MONOCHROME GREEN ON THE INSIDE 13:03 <@Dagmar> Synx|hm: Okay. 13:03 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: The Eternal September ruins everything. 13:03 <@Dagmar> So from the outside, anything coming from that host should have your a IP because of NAT 13:03 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: so true 13:03 <@Dagmar> _NSAKEY: I'm planting my feet against it here 13:03 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: on top of that, on the remote OpenVPN-AS server i forward in a few ports back into the VLAN non routable IP of one of my hosts 13:04 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: correct surfing the net works as expected, i appear to be coming from the remote VPN WAN IP 13:04 <@Dagmar> OKay so your internal host should see the real IP of connections coming in through those forwarded portas 13:04 <@Dagmar> er ports 13:04 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: thats where it breaks down 13:05 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: for connections coming in the WAN of the remote VPN my internal hosts see the wan gateway (5.5.0.1) IP and not the true IP of who ever is connecting 13:05 <@Dagmar> OKay so your NAT isn't working properly then because it should not change the apparent source address of those connections 13:06 < Synx|hm> agreed 13:07 <@Dagmar> I suspect I should be saying to ensure that the rule that looks for already established connections should be happening much earlier in the rule chains 13:07 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: i have not messed with iprules/chains in an ungodly amount of years 13:07 < Synx|hm> im relying on OpenVPN-AS knowing how to do it properly by the gui settings 13:07 <@Dagmar> ...but having the inbound connections masq's is a very clear 'this should not be happening thing'. FIgure out which rule is making that happen 13:07 < Synx|hm> :( 13:08 <@Dagmar> I wouldn't suggest relying on the GUI tool unless it uses some very particular verbiage that matches exactly with what you know should be going on 13:08 <@Dagmar> The VPN stuff should be riding atop any NAT 13:08 < Synx|hm> DMZ Settings 13:08 < Synx|hm> Configure DMZ IP Address: Select Yes to configure DMZ IP addresses. 13:08 < Synx|hm> DMZ IP Address: This allows one or more public IP addresses and/or a specific protocol and port number to be NATed at the server into the VPN tunnel and then routed to a specific client. 13:08 < Synx|hm> Format is: Network or Nework:tcp/port or Network/udp/port Example: 188.88.88.88:tcp/1080 13:09 < Synx|hm> ack sorry for the spam 13:09 < Synx|hm> i figured that be it ha but i guess not 13:09 < Synx|hm> im not opposed to doing complete custom openvpn install here 13:09 < Synx|hm> just like being able to move around hotels etc with the ease of openvpn-as where you just goto website and login 13:09 <@Dagmar> But you're not doing a DMZ 13:09 <@Dagmar> Not according to what you just told me 13:10 < Synx|hm> hrm let me re-state as i might be confusing things here 13:10 <@Dagmar> Outside<--->router<---->Inside 13:10 <@Dagmar> | 13:10 <@Dagmar> | 13:10 <@Dagmar> v 13:10 <@Dagmar> DMZ 13:11 < Synx|hm> i need to be able to accept connections on the WAN side of my remote VPN and forward that traffic down the tunnel to my internal LAN 13:11 <@Dagmar> If "DMZ" is part of your inside network, you do not have a DMZ 13:11 <@Dagmar> Are you coming to the meeting Friday? 13:12 <@Dagmar> If so, we'll just _draw_ this on a big sheet of paper 13:12 < Synx|hm> cant :( going to see umphrys mcgee at ryman 13:12 < Synx|hm> unless you all want to meet me there lol 13:12 <@Dagmar> Okay, I'll put it another way 13:12 <@Dagmar> Your topology should be entirely separate from your encryption. 13:13 < Synx|hm> yup yup get that 13:13 < Synx|hm> let me draw it out and imgur it right quick 13:13 <@Dagmar> Okay 13:13 < Synx|hm> i dont have visio right now so forgive mspaint 13:13 <@Dagmar> No worries 13:13 < aestetix> hmm /me scrolls up 13:13 <@Dagmar> I'll probably be using Inkscape to respond 13:13 < Synx|hm> oh inkscape? 13:14 <@Dagmar> It's advantage over MSpaint is smooth lines. ;) 13:14 < Synx|hm> :) 13:20 <@Dagmar> Amazing. 13:20 <@Dagmar> In only five minutes of looking at Java's support for dates, I want to strangle someone 13:20 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: Save that rage for Friday. You'll probably need it. 13:21 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: why? 13:22 < RangerZ1> just use http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/Date.html 13:22 < PigBot`> Title: Date (Java Platform SE 7 ) (at docs.oracle.com) 13:22 < RangerZ1> and NOTHING else 13:22 < RangerZ1> and 'store' dates as epoch longs (my recomendation) 13:23 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: https://imgur.com/XZ4QyZM 13:23 < PigBot`> Title: imgur: the simple image sharer (at imgur.com) 13:24 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: browsing the intarwebs etc works perfect and as expected from any number of hosts on 10.10.10.x/24 13:24 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: problem is inbound connects to VPN WAN side with DMZ portforward setup in OpenVPN-AS hit Host1 but with an IP of 5.5.0.1 13:24 < Synx|hm> so it fowards but does not masquerade 13:27 < RangerZ1> aestetix: FCC chairman basically had to do the right thing when Obama came out in favor of it... and he realized he would cause a fucking shit storm if he didn't do the right thing 'here' and still give cable companies/etc what they want other places 13:27 < aestetix> so Obama is responsible for this? 13:27 < RangerZ1> yep 13:27 < aestetix> wow 13:27 < aestetix> So his last two years he is growing a pair 13:27 < RangerZ1> he came out in favor of net neutrality a while ago, pretty strongly 13:27 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: also this is a TAP setup 13:28 < Synx|hm> ack god damn it 13:28 < RangerZ1> (probably right after the election ,but ehh) 13:28 < RangerZ1> Synx|hm: don't make us have to put you on the special PN comittee with crazypants 13:29 < RangerZ1> (that is our new punishment(outlawed where geneva convention is still enforced, but thankfully the US isn't one of those places) 13:29 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: I am not sending broadcast so its TUN (?) 13:29 < RangerZ1> aestetix: the real bitch of it for comcast/at&t... is that the FCC CHairman was the former head lobbiest for the cable industry 13:29 < RangerZ1> lol 13:29 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: I am the last person you'd need to tell about using epoch time 13:29 < RangerZ1> so they thought they HAD IT 13:30 <@Dagmar> What I need is a function that returns a string in the form of "date time timezone in whatever the fuck format the user's preferences indicate" which requires epoch time (or epoch milliseconds) as an input 13:31 < RangerZ1> good fucking luck 13:31 <@Dagmar> There are literally hundreds of StackOverflow posts from people who do *not* understand what insanity it is to do something other than that 13:31 <@Dagmar> So they're all chirpy with their suggestions about "use this format string" 13:31 < Synx|hm> i have a tattoo in epoch time (dont make fun of me) 13:31 <@Dagmar> What's this TUN/TAP thing you speak of? 13:32 <@Dagmar> I suspect someone's sold you a load of magic networking sparkledust 13:32 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: easy, just ... 13:32 < RangerZ1> day = getDay() 13:32 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: No. 13:33 < RangerZ1> yeah yeah yeah... i know 13:33 <@Dagmar> This is one of the things I dont' care for about java 13:33 < RangerZ1> 'depricated' 13:33 < RangerZ1> Calendar.get(Calendar.MONTH) 13:33 <@Dagmar> So much of it is almost autistically literal it's useless 13:33 <@Dagmar> 98% of the time, anyone who isn't looking for serious pain, is going to be outputting a datestring according to user preferences which is unambiguous 13:34 <@Dagmar> ...and yet there is apparently no single function for this? 13:34 <@Dagmar> WTF 13:34 < RangerZ1> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/Calendar.html 13:34 < PigBot`> Title: Calendar (Java Platform SE 7 ) (at docs.oracle.com) 13:34 <@Dagmar> I saw a shitload of functions marked as 'Deprecated' and all I can think about them is "What asshole decided they were a good idea in the first place" 13:34 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: disregard TAP/TUN its not relevant to the problems at the moment (i think) 13:35 <@Dagmar> Synx|hm: The majority of the time when people are having networking problems, it boils down to them thinking it's more complex than it really is 13:35 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: deprecated still works fine 13:35 < RangerZ1> they aren't 'removed' 13:35 <@Dagmar> Well, in this case those deprecated functions are insane 13:36 <@Dagmar> This page is a good example of that autism 13:36 < RangerZ1> wait... what are you trying to do? 13:36 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: ya i think this is a simple improper masquerade setup on the remote VPN because unsolicited traffic (on expected and forwarded ports) should hit my host1 with proper public IP 13:36 <@Dagmar> The very first paragraph outlines the following: " An instant in time can be represented by a millisecond value that is an offset from the Epoch, January 1, 1970 00:00:00.000 GMT (Gregorian)." 13:37 <@Dagmar> ...and the rest of the page makes it clear that apparently such a conversion from _zero_ to that boldface string, is impossible 13:38 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: are you setting a future time? or from 'now' ? 13:38 < RangerZ1> and if 'future' is it relative or set future time? 13:38 <@Dagmar> Well, I know better than to address anything before 1970 if that's what you're wondering about 13:38 <@Dagmar> It wouldn't matter because any idiot can do simple addition or subtraction from epoch seconds 13:39 < RangerZ1> well I figured that... but I mean... what type of UI do you want to give the user? 13:39 <@Evilpig> damn nephews hitting me up for cash 13:39 <@Dagmar> ...but then they'd still have epoch seconds 13:39 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: A simple text string. SEriously. 13:39 < RangerZ1> ohh, yeah... that function doesn't exist 13:39 <@Dagmar> You know how you can invoke `date` and convert epoch time to a human-readable and unambiguous string? 13:39 <@Dagmar> That. 13:39 < RangerZ1> b/c people are smart enough to NEVER ask people to type in regex 13:40 < RangerZ1> lol 13:40 <@Dagmar> How the fuck is this left out? 13:40 < RangerZ1> b/c it doesn't actually make sense 13:40 < RangerZ1> you either know the date you want 13:40 < RangerZ1> or it is 'now' 13:40 <@Dagmar> Bullshit 13:41 <@Dagmar> It makes complete sense because it's done in other languages a million times a day 13:41 <@Dagmar> Everyone who isn't aggressively self-destructive stores times in epoch seconds. 13:41 <@Dagmar> They don't show that ten digit number to the user because they'll get shot at or run over with a car. 13:42 < RangerZ1> wait... I think you might be explaining it 'slightly' wrong 13:42 <@Dagmar> They run the epoch seconds through a function that returns a string like "Wednesday, Februrary 9th, 2015 3:00PM CST" 13:42 <@Dagmar> ...and they show the user that 13:43 < RangerZ1> if you have a Date object with 'a' time... then just call Calendar.get(Calendar.HOUR_OF_DAY) etc for each value you want 13:43 < RangerZ1> and build up the string 13:43 <@Dagmar> The golden rule of not failing at dates is immediately convert whatever string you got to epoch, store and manipulate that. Converting epoch back to "human-readable" time is the thing you do at the last minute when you show it to the user 13:44 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: So again, Android _has_ a user preference setting for how users want their datetime strings represented 13:44 <@Dagmar> So explicitly going for "YYYY/MM/DD HH:mm:ss" is an epic failure 13:45 < RangerZ1> ohh 13:45 < RangerZ1> thats all 13:45 < RangerZ1> i thought you wanted soemthing MUCH more complex 13:45 < RangerZ1> https://developer.android.com/reference/java/text/DateFormat.html 13:45 < PigBot`> Title: DateFormat | Android Developers (at developer.android.com) 13:45 <@Dagmar> Rangerz: This is what I mean by "near autistic literalism" 13:45 < RangerZ1> "Dec 31, 1969 4:00:00 PM" 13:46 < RangerZ1> you said you wanted a function to input a 'date'(epoch format) and a string 13:46 <@Dagmar> Nooo 13:46 < RangerZ1> so I thought you wanted 2 parameter method 13:46 < RangerZ1> your OUTPUT is the string 13:46 <@Dagmar> I know converting from the human-readable is a pain unless you expect a very rigid input format 13:46 < RangerZ1> so ^ 13:46 <@Dagmar> I've had to _write_ that code before 13:47 < RangerZ1> thats why I was like "who the fuck would ask an end-user for that text format string..." 13:48 <@Dagmar> The disturbing thing is that I've looked at a dozen posts on SO for people who are clearly looking to do the exact thing I'm talking about, _on Android_, and they are buried in responses that are neck-deep in pedantry and tunnel-vision 13:49 < RangerZ1> https://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/text/SimpleDateFormat.html 13:49 < PigBot`> Title: SimpleDateFormat (Java Platform SE 6) (at docs.oracle.com) 13:49 < RangerZ1> the java version 13:49 <@Dagmar> Yeah and that would be completely wrong for Android 13:49 < RangerZ1> I think it would 'work' 13:49 <@Dagmar> ...because of the user preference 13:50 <@Dagmar> I am assuming that per the usual, the zero in System.out.println(df.format(new Date(0))); is actually epoch milliseconds 13:50 < RangerZ1> look at Date 13:50 < RangerZ1> yes 13:50 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: ok so ive found at least positivly where the issue lies 13:51 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: if i tcp dump the VPN interface (its an extra virtual interface) on the remote VPN server 13:51 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: Yes, hilariously such a thing is not mentioned or linked to anywhere from that developer.android page 13:51 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: i see the packet come in from the WAN, but when it leaves the VPN interface to make it to me its source ip is changed to the VPN gateway 13:52 <@Dagmar> Synx: That's to ensure it goes back _out_ the VPN interface 13:52 < RangerZ1> https://developer.android.com/reference/java/text/DateFormat.html#getAvailableLocales() 13:52 <@Dagmar> er reply packets do, rather 13:52 < PigBot`> Title: DateFormat | Android Developers (at developer.android.com) 13:52 < RangerZ1> i 'think' that is where you get the 'system provided ways to display date' 13:52 < RangerZ1> and you pick '0' to get default 13:53 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: so thats expected? 13:53 <@Dagmar> Synx: If it didn't do that, how would returning packets be routed? Think about it. 13:53 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: via the gateway per usual like normal internet traffic 13:53 <@Dagmar> They'd be addressed to the public IP address of the other end of the connection 13:54 <@Dagmar> Unless your VPN is the *only* way the host on your end communicates with the internet, this means the replies would not only be unencrypted, they'd also have the source address of the private VPN address 13:54 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: im talking about Public (unsolicited so no states) -> VPN -> TUNNEL -> PFSENSE -> Host 13:55 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: everything Host1 sends is routed over VPN no matter what 13:55 <@Dagmar> Why, precisely, are you considering VPN and TUNNEL separate things? 13:55 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: sorry VPN should really be (Remote Server) 13:55 <@Dagmar> Ah okay 13:55 <@Dagmar> Okay there's one of your problems then 13:55 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: "DateFormat df = DateFormat.getTimeFormat();" will get you "Returns a DateFormat object that can format the time according to the current locale and the user's 12-/24-hour clock preference." 13:56 <@Dagmar> If your encryption-protected host can *only* communicate over the VPN, how is it communicating with the remote VPN host? 13:56 < RangerZ1> "getLongDateFormat(Context context)" -> [(such as Monday, January 3, 2000) ] 13:57 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: i guess thats the root because really it shouldn't be 13:57 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: Yeah I'm about to read the caveat it mentions. I saw it two entries down from your previous link 13:57 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: it sound't even know that gateway exists 13:57 <@Dagmar> It damn well should 13:57 < Synx|hm> s/sound't/shouldn't 13:57 <@Dagmar> It has to talk to the thing somehow 13:57 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: why? it knows its local gateway (pfsense 10.10.10.1) thats all it shoudl care about 13:57 < RangerZ1> ok, I'm heading home... hit me up later if you want (PM, so I hear the DING and know) 13:58 <@Dagmar> OKay so then your VPN doesn't terminate on the local host, but on the border router for your local network 13:59 <@Dagmar> Lemme pull up Inkscape. Gimme 10 minutes 13:59 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: yes pfsense is routing all traffic on that VLAN through the tunnel 13:59 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: the localhosts are blind to the fact that their traffic is going over said tunnel 14:02 -!- RangerZ1 [~rangerz@DHCP-129-59-122-54.n1.vanderbilt.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:07 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600 14:07 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ 14:09 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: well shit 14:09 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: http://openvpn.net/index.php/access-server/docs/admin-guides/223-how-to-setup-dmz-in-openvpn-access-server.html 14:09 < PigBot`> Title: How to setup DMZ in OpenVPN Access Server (at openvpn.net) 14:09 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: * We NAT both the source and destination IP addresses. 14:09 < Synx|hm> The destination address is NATed to the VPN IP address of the client (which may be dynamic or static). The source address is NATed to the VPN gateway IP address of the first OpenVPN daemon running on the machine (in the case that more than one daemon is running). So for example, if the VPN dynamic IP subnet is set to 10.8.0.0/24, clients receiving connections via a DMZ address will see it as coming from 10 14:09 < Synx|hm> .8.0.1. 14:21 <@Dagmar> Fuckign Niantic 14:21 <@Dagmar> *sigh* 14:21 <@Dagmar> Almost done with this diagram 14:21 < Synx|hm> k 14:21 <@Dagmar> I *assume* you ahve something that can render SVG since every browser that isn't shit can now 14:23 < Synx|hm> ya 14:27 <@Dagmar> http://dagmar.isamotherfucking.ninja/~dagmar/crapdiagram.svg 14:28 <@Dagmar> Oh awesome 14:28 <@Dagmar> Inkscape is now doing something that makes text labels fail 14:28 < Synx|hm> ya haha 14:28 < Synx|hm> nice picture though 14:29 <@Dagmar> Change svg to png 14:29 <@Dagmar> Anyway, I'm guessing this represents your topology 14:30 < Synx|hm> yes sir, much better than i drew 14:30 < Synx|hm> what i need to happen is have random loser connect and his IP makes it all the way to my private host 14:31 < Synx|hm> i will not accept more than one connection from the same IP at my private host 14:31 <@Dagmar> If I had Visio handy it would be detail-obsessive 14:32 <@Dagmar> You do NOT want random loser's IP address to reach your private host. 14:32 <@Dagmar> If it does, the replies will not go back through the VPN 14:32 <@Dagmar> That will be bad 14:32 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: private host only has one route to the internet 14:33 <@Dagmar> What the presence of the VPN does, from their perspective (and yours with respect to random loser) is _alters_ this topology so that YOURNET appears to be inside THEIRNET 14:33 <@Dagmar> If I were doing this on paper with a pencil, it would look rather much more like part of a klein bottle 14:34 <@Dagmar> Sooo... Your remote VPN host should be basically holding up an IP address that is reserved to pretend to be you 14:34 <@Dagmar> It is effectively your privatae interface, seen through the VPN 14:34 <@Dagmar> Traffic going to it _should_ be NATed coming and going 14:36 <@Dagmar> They jabber at your NATting VPN address, (I should really draw a second diagram but maybe it won't be necessary)... 14:36 <@Dagmar> ...and the NAT part takes over, and readdresses it to the private IP on your actual network 14:36 <@Dagmar> From _there_ the remote host knows it has to route that packet because the packet doesn't belong to it... 14:37 <@Dagmar> ...it rummages through the routing table, and sees the appropriate route is over the magical fiction known as the VPN tunnel interface 14:37 <@Dagmar> (hence the stars) 14:38 <@Dagmar> It sends that packet (which should now have your private host's address on it) across the interface 14:38 <@Dagmar> Now this is the tricky bit 14:38 <@Dagmar> IF your private host is ever allowed to talk to anything on the Internet at all, it must *also* NAT the _source_ address 14:39 <@Dagmar> ...so that you will no longer see Random Loser's IP address, but instead an address belonging to your remote VPN host 14:39 <@Dagmar> er the remote router/VPNhost must also NAT the _source_ address. 14:39 <@Dagmar> "It" was a little ambiguous there 14:41 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: sry cat puked all over hallway had to clean it up as it was staining 14:41 <@Dagmar> If VPN encryption isn't mandatory for your private host, you have options, but it's still far easier to just do the same thing regardless 14:41 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: ok so its the last part that doesn't make sense to me 14:41 <@Dagmar> That's why it's the tricky bit 14:41 <@Dagmar> ...and why I was really thinking I should draw a second diagram 14:41 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: lets remove tunnel VPN from this entire mess and just talk normal NAT 14:42 <@Dagmar> That's why i was saying consider the VPN separately. 14:42 <@Dagmar> What the VPN is actually doing is warping space and time like a wormhole to alter your topology 14:42 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: internal host 1 sends packet to google, it looks up its routing table sees it doesn't know how to get there so it uses the default gateway on the only interface it has... which is my router... my router sees the traffic does SNAT on its way out to put the router WAN IP as the source... 14:43 <@Dagmar> You could take the entirety or YOURNET and put it on the far side of the border VPN router and you'd have what's topologically going on 14:43 <@Dagmar> Nonon 14:43 <@Dagmar> You can't do that 14:43 <@Dagmar> At least, you can't do that unless your VPN is _optional_ 14:43 < Synx|hm> que what? 14:43 < Synx|hm> ya sorry forget the VPN for the moment 14:43 <@Dagmar> Okay fine 14:43 < Synx|hm> im trying to get something more fundemental 14:44 <@Dagmar> Okay so that's pretty normal masquerading then 14:44 < Synx|hm> ya, now so google replys... it hits my router which nows does DNAT (but NOT SNAT) and modifys the destination to that of local host 1, but it leaves the source as google, thats how i know its google replying to me 14:44 <@Mirage> Synx|hm: vpn has configured DHCP range (rfc1918) separate from your internal network. Internal hosts that need to communicate back to clients on the vpn need to have a static route set using the vpn server's internal IP as the gateway. 14:44 <@Dagmar> Your router maintains a table of connections which it's serving as a proxy for, so it doesn't try to deliver packets to a local socket but instead mangles them with NAT 14:44 <@Mirage> not rocket science 14:45 <@Dagmar> Mirage: Well, rocket science is easier, actually. 14:45 < Synx|hm> Mirage: agree problem is vpn is doing both DNAT and SNAT when it only should be doing DNAT 14:45 <@Dagmar> Synx: Stop thinking of DNAT and SNAT 14:45 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: ok back to my example here... 14:45 <@Dagmar> Think of it as _just_ NAT 14:45 <@Dagmar> ...or like us Linux people do and call it "masquerading", formerly "mangling". ;) 14:46 <@Dagmar> The whole thing makes less sense when you think about DNAT and SNAT as their separate functions 14:46 <@Mirage> Synx vpn client gets translated then...and the vpn host maintains a table (think NAT gateways/proxies).. 14:46 < Synx|hm> now say Google wants to connect to me as a service but i have not sent them something first, google hits my WAN ip with a packet my router looks it up sees it shoudl forward to internal host 1 and only does DNAT again, so host 1 sees that google has connected to it 14:46 <@Dagmar> full stop 14:47 <@Dagmar> Google can't talk to your private host directly 14:47 <@Dagmar> As far as it's concerned, your private host lives on THEIRNET 14:47 <@Mirage> The main question you have to answer is: What IP does the internal host believe that the vpn client connection is coming from? 14:47 <@Dagmar> It neither knows nor cares about where it's actually hat 14:47 < Synx|hm> ahhhhhh, i so wish i could just talk right now instead of try and type this shit out 14:48 <@Dagmar> Google would be addressing a public interface, generally on the theirnet router 14:48 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: what im getting at here is in 100% normal normal NAT google sends packet to my WAN IP public interface, my router knows to forward that port to my internal host 1, but the key here is that when it does it ONLY modifys the destination IP of the packet and NOT the source IP 14:49 <@Dagmar> So... Google would attempt to connect to the IP address at THEIRNET, and the router would see it and say "OKay, I accept it" and then see that it's listed in it's table of things which should be NATted 14:49 < Synx|hm> so host 1 gets a packet that says TO: 192.168.1.100 FROM: GOOGLE 14:49 <@Dagmar> Who is host 1? 14:49 <@Dagmar> THEIRNET public interface? 14:49 < Synx|hm> private lan host 14:50 < Synx|hm> i think we are agruing the same thing lol 14:50 <@Dagmar> OKay yeah host 1 would get such a packet, assuming that host1 can not talk to anyone on the internet by itself normally 14:50 < Synx|hm> yes 14:50 <@Dagmar> ...which would actually make things hard 14:50 < Synx|hm> so we can agree that is how normal nat works? 14:50 <@Dagmar> I would argue that normal NAT barely exists as such, but yeah 14:51 <@Dagmar> ...but it's the steps you skipped that are fucking you 14:51 < Synx|hm> well lets call it normal port forwarding then 14:51 <@Dagmar> Follow along with me a little longer 14:51 <@Dagmar> So... THEIRNET's public routerface has the loose end of the connection coming from GOogle 14:51 < dfused> just dont get into the van 14:53 <@Dagmar> It sees that this is supposed to go through NAT/masq, because the destination on the packet isn't really where it's going... so it changes the destination address on the packet to the private interface of your private host 14:53 < Synx|hm> yes i get that 14:53 < Synx|hm> they key is that what is DOES NOT do is change the source 14:54 < Synx|hm> so my private host always knows who exactly is attempting the connection 14:54 < Synx|hm> agreed? 14:54 <@Dagmar> The routing table on the theirnet router will return that this packet should then go back out through the VPN interface, where it is encrypted, sent back along the internet, and arrives at your router which decrypts it and then it's routing table shows that it should go out the internal interface to your private host 14:55 < Synx|hm> yup 14:55 <@Dagmar> Note that I have cautiously avoided the subject of changing the source address 14:55 <@Dagmar> ...because _now_ is the point at which it begins to matter 14:56 <@Dagmar> Assuming your private host is never allowed to talk to anyone on the internet, you have two options and one is more complex than the other 14:56 <@Dagmar> This is where the double-ended NATdo comes into play 14:57 <@Dagmar> It needs a hateful euphemism 14:57 <@Dagmar> So your private host wants to respond... 14:57 <@Dagmar> If VPN is mandatory, your VPN host has to apply a special policy just for packets coming from your internal host 14:57 < Synx|hm> ive actually turned off double nat in so far as THEIRNET is fully aware of YOURNET and knows to route all YOURNET traffic to my border gateway 14:58 < Synx|hm> border router that is 15:00 <@Dagmar> At the purely routing level, your router can't distinguish between a packet meant for GOogle that should go through the tunnel and a packet meant for Google that can go straight out the internet, dig? 15:00 <@Dagmar> It _has_ to look at the source address it sees 15:00 <@Dagmar> Hence, the special policy and things getting head-achye 15:00 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: no thats the key here, all traffic on that VLAN no matter what routes out the tunnel 15:01 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: so what you are getting at is the VPN server is protecting me from leakage except that ive already got that covered 15:01 <@Dagmar> If your'e doing this by VLAn you're technically _bridging_ the VLAN between the two networks as far as I know 15:01 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: basically yes 15:02 <@Dagmar> It sounds like maybe the confusion is that you're not separating the VLAN bridging from everything else 15:02 < Synx|hm> Dagmar: actually for this you can really disregard the VLAN, its just a isolated subnet in my environment that happens to use 802.1q tagging 15:02 <@Dagmar> The VLAN being in play is making things more complex, not less 15:02 < Synx|hm> or i should say the V part of the VLAN 15:03 < Synx|hm> its all not relevant anyways because if i connect with a normal VPN client on a windows PC for example the exact same problem happens 15:03 <@Dagmar> OKay so stop thinkign about the VLAN if you're not bridging 15:03 < Synx|hm> inbound unsolicited traffic to the WAN IP of the remote (VPN-SERVER) comes back to my local client with a source of 5.5.0.1 15:03 < Synx|hm> which is the problem 15:04 <@Dagmar> 5.5.0.1 is part of which network? 15:04 < Synx|hm> pretend that once im connected to this tunnel i have no other way to route traffic 15:04 <@Dagmar> My guess is that it's a private interface on THEIRNET 15:04 < Synx|hm> 5.5.0.1 is the THEIRNET gateway 15:04 < Synx|hm> yes private side 15:05 <@Dagmar> Okay so stop what's doing SNAT over on theirnet's router because it would be wrong 15:05 < Synx|hm> DING DING DING 15:05 < Synx|hm> follow me now? 15:05 <@Dagmar> Yeah 15:06 < Synx|hm> :) (dont take my comments as backhanded because you obviously are much smarter than I on this stuff, but i think we've been argueing different things for an hour lol) 15:06 <@Dagmar> Oh don't worry 15:06 <@Dagmar> I know this shit drives people insane 15:06 <@Dagmar> THey are simply _not_ used to having additional layers of abstraction going on 15:06 < Synx|hm> my problem is i need theirnet's router to stock doing SNAT and only do DNAT here 15:06 <@Dagmar> It does _not_ make this anything other than confusing 15:07 < Synx|hm> im goig to turn off the stupid DMZ bs in OpenVPN-AS and try and write my own iptable forward and nat rules right quick 15:07 <@Dagmar> Yes and in Linux terms it would all be just "masquerading" and you wouldn't be worrying about the difference between SNAT and DNAT 15:08 < Synx|hm> ya i just wanted to clairfiy that the source is being modified here when i 100% do not want it to be 15:08 <@Dagmar> Like I've said... or tried to anyway... DMZ is for "third leg" network topologies, which is not what you have 15:08 < Synx|hm> ya 15:08 <@Dagmar> This is probably why it's fucking you over 15:08 < Synx|hm> i incorrectly assumed that who ever wrote the GUI just ment to put "Port forward" 15:09 <@Dagmar> Oh no 15:09 <@Dagmar> DMZ is a whole 'nother thing. 15:09 < Synx|hm> and now that clicks 15:09 <@Dagmar> It's not port forwarding like a hole 15:09 < Synx|hm> hence the SNAT 15:09 <@Dagmar> A _sane_ person doesn't even NAT a DMZ like that, they just make the DMZ it's own damn network to begin with 15:10 <@Dagmar> Then simple routing can do all the work 15:10 < Synx|hm> now i get it, and thats the cause of all ym issues lol 15:10 < Synx|hm> so what i really just want is portforwarding on the openvpn-as server 15:10 < Synx|hm> ha 15:10 <@Dagmar> A sane person would perhaps use 192.168 for their internal network, and 172.12 for their DMZ network 15:12 <@Dagmar> Nothing else would even have to know the 172.12 network existed, because the router in teh middle could do port forwarding 15:12 <@Dagmar> ...well, it wouldn't have to care anyway 15:12 <@Dagmar> portforwarding/masquerading 15:13 <@Dagmar> In sane-people land, if you had say, 23.23.23.x available as public IP space, you could chop a quarter of that out and make it the public face of the DMZ 15:13 -!- K4k [~K4k@unaffiliated/k4k] has joined #se2600 15:13 <@Dagmar> Hosts on the inside would simply need to address packets to the latter fourth of 23.23.23.x, and the router would know to masq them for the DMZ network 15:14 <@Dagmar> Hosts on the outside would be doing the exact same thing 15:14 <@Dagmar> That would be letting _routing_ be deciding where packets should go 15:15 <@Dagmar> Think of things going across a VPN as going _up_ to a whole new layer 15:16 <@Dagmar> On that layer, it has it's own set of topologies 15:16 <@Dagmar> The terminating VPN bits are what's moving packets up and down between these new layers of abstraction 15:16 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Quit: bleh] 15:17 <@Dagmar> ...which is why I invoked the wormhole euphemism 15:17 <@Dagmar> If you're thinking of a network topology as a 3D space, a VPN punches a hole right through into subspace. ;) 15:19 <@Dagmar> It just so happens that VPNs typically are Point-to-Point, so it's not obvious that they have a new set of rules 15:21 <@Dagmar> the first time you sit down with pencil and paper and actually toss packets in the form of stickynotes and keep routing tables on little 3x5 cards, it's _messy_ and _slow_ but it makes everything much clearer 15:22 <@Dagmar> I might bring stationery products to the next meeting for this 15:29 <@Dagmar> Okay. This is cool 15:29 <@Dagmar> The thing RangerZ pointed me to doesn't even agree with the Android stuff as it currentlt exists 15:29 <@Dagmar> Someone should be killed. 15:30 <@Dagmar> Ah wait, I see 15:30 <@Dagmar> One would THINK that if there's a page for DateFormat on the ANDROID site that it would refer to ANDROID's DateFormat 15:30 <@Dagmar> Nooo... it actually documents the JAVA importable 15:30 <@Dagmar> @!#$!@$ 15:30 < PigBot`> Dagmar: Error: "!#$!@$" is not a valid command. 15:38 -!- RangerZ1 [~rangerz@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 15:39 <@Evilpig> http://wilpig.tumblr.com/post/110093233707/my-sister-spawned-posting-this-so-everyone-can 15:39 < PigBot`> Title: Pig Angry! PIG SMASH! My sister spawned. Posting this so everyone can... (at wilpig.tumblr.com) 15:40 <@Dagmar> "It's so _hairless_." 15:40 <@Dagmar> "...and wrinkly." 15:41 <@Evilpig> pretty sure that's the appropriate response from me 15:42 <@Dagmar> It would be mean to try and convince her it looks wrong somehow 15:42 <@Dagmar> It would probably be worse to show her a picture of Kenneth Woodruffs baby 15:42 <@Dagmar> It's just _over the top_ cutesey 15:43 <@Dagmar> http://grand-unified.com/devblog/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/1271282_10152569246222913_653935287853042579_o.jpg 15:43 <@Dagmar> It basically looked like that from day one. 15:43 <@Evilpig> heh 15:46 <@Dagmar> I was just shocked. 15:46 <@Dagmar> ...but then Kenneth and his wife are _both_ ridiculously cute. 15:47 <@Dagmar> I just didn't expect the baby to skip the "wrinkly and alien" looking phase entirely. 16:03 <@Dagmar> http://www.ozarksfirst.com/story/d/story/transasia-crash-caught-on-camera/18212/tIwx8bxni0G9aPq2_gCNsw 16:03 < PigBot`> Title: TransAsia Crash Caught On Camera - OzarksFirst.com (at www.ozarksfirst.com) 16:09 -!- chat is now known as jaake 16:17 < Synx|hm> holy fuck balls 16:17 < Synx|hm> few iptables rules (hours of searching because i have no fucking idea what all these extra chains openvpn-as setup are 16:17 < Synx|hm> and boom 16:17 < Synx|hm> proper port forward 16:17 < Synx|hm> jesus 16:18 < RangerZ1> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/02/ulbricht-guilty-in-silk-road-online-drug-trafficking-trial/ 16:18 < PigBot`> Title: Ulbricht guilty in Silk Road online drug-trafficking trial | Ars Technica (at arstechnica.com) 16:18 < RangerZ1> Synx|hm: you'll laugh... but the first residential router I ever had that made port forwarding actually work the way it should... is the old wired MSFT one I had 16:19 < RangerZ1> the UI was actually usable/worked well, and all 16:19 < RangerZ1> kinda shamed even WRT-DD for while 16:19 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600 16:19 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ 16:21 < Synx|hm> fuck me i just forwarded a way too big range 16:23 -!- K4k [~K4k@unaffiliated/k4k] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:26 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: Is that article even a surprise? 16:26 < RangerZ1> no 16:26 < _NSAKEY> You just know they held the Maryland murder for hire stuff back. 16:26 < _NSAKEY> He's going to have another trial. 16:26 < RangerZ1> but my friend out there who knows SR #2 thought it wasn't a forgone conclussion 16:26 < RangerZ1> (probably out of hope for her friend) 16:27 < _NSAKEY> Even if the defense somehow gets lucky and gets him out on appeal, they'll just hit him with the murder for hire in Maryland. 16:27 < _NSAKEY> That's probably going to happen anyway, if I had to guess. 16:30 < RangerZ1> yeah 16:33 < RangerZ1> http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/4/7977569/its-official-the-fcc-will-seek-to-reclassify-the-internet-as-a-utility 16:33 < RangerZ1> THAT however IS news 16:33 * Mirage reads /. too 16:34 < RangerZ1> actually no 16:34 < RangerZ1> of all things... FB 16:35 -!- Genphlux [~Genphlux@63-237-5-34.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:37 <@Evilpig> RangerZ1: more like late_to_the_partyZ: 11:58 <@Evilpig> http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/4/7977569/its-official-the-fcc-will-seek-to-reclassify-the-internet-as-a-utility 16:37 * RangerZ1 shrugs 16:48 < eryc_> that should be late_to_the_partyZ1 16:49 < aestetix> Ok so 16:49 < aestetix> Is herd immunity a real thing? 16:49 < aestetix> I have a hard time buying the argument that the government should force everyone to get a vaccine 16:50 < aestetix> Whereas making it easy/accessible for those who want it is another story 16:58 < eryc_> thats just what we want is mutating viruses in part of the population 16:58 <@Mirage> it should be easy/accessible _and_ required 16:58 < eryc_> also washing your hands should be optional 16:58 < eryc_> thats why i always order my starbucks with a side of dick cheese 16:59 <@oddball> aestetix: One of my libertarian friends stated "I've got a big enough wookie suit that I don't like the idea of the government forcing you to get vaccinated, but if you don't, you're a moron." 16:59 <@Mirage> newsflash, viruses and/or bacteria are going to mutate whether or not they are being actively fought with medications. 17:00 <@Evilpig> lies 17:00 <@oddball> Oh, and he also has no issue with the idea of mandating vaccines if you want to take advantage of public schools. 17:00 <@Evilpig> evolution is a myth 17:00 <@Mirage> Evilpig: you're definitely a stong argument for that 17:00 <@Mirage> =P 17:01 <@Evilpig> I agree. I'm gonna go club me a bitch and drag her back to my cave this weekend 17:01 < dfused> aestetix, HIDE! 17:01 < RangerZ1> aestetix: herd immunity matters for the weakest in society 17:01 <@Evilpig> I might see if I can discover fire too 17:01 < eryc_> One dose of measles vaccine protects 93% of patients, while two doses protect 97%, Wallace says. 17:01 < RangerZ1> so as long as you are fine with people with AIDS/infants getting measles, then it doesn't matter 17:01 < eryc_> But even with a vaccine failure rate of only 3%, a large measles outbreak can end up infecting a lot of fully vaccinated people, Wallace says. 17:01 <@Mirage> Just be sure you don't accidentally club one of those types that like it. 17:01 <@Evilpig> RangerZ1: i'm kinda okay with that... 17:02 < RangerZ1> Evilpig: only b/c your HIV isn't in AIDS state yet 17:02 <@oddball> Just in case anyone hasn't seen the Penn and Teller bit on vaccination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo 17:02 < PigBot`> Title: Penn and Teller on Vaccinations - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) 17:03 < eryc_> Humans are the natural hosts of the virus; no other animal reservoirs are known to exist. 17:03 < eryc_> Mirage ^ 17:03 < RangerZ1> eryc_: which is why if we 'can' get rid of it in the USA, and then push a smallpox like push world wide... 17:03 < RangerZ1> we can -eradicate- it 17:04 < RangerZ1> just like the http://www.cartercenter.org/health/guinea_worm/index.html Guinea Worm, that 'only' exists in Humans 17:04 < PigBot`> Title: Carter Center Guinea Worm Eradication Program (at www.cartercenter.org) 17:04 < eryc_> according to Mirage it will continue to spread even after we eradicate it 17:04 < RangerZ1> huh? 17:04 < eryc_> <@Mirage> newsflash, viruses and/or bacteria are going to mutate whether or not they are being actively fought with medications. 17:05 < RangerZ1> ahh, but we aren't "fighting" them 17:05 < RangerZ1> we are immunizing 17:05 < RangerZ1> and basically killing the petri dish they grow in 17:07 < eryc_> unfortunately like al qaeda the virus will just fester in pakistan 17:07 < RangerZ1> nah 17:07 < RangerZ1> b/c they will die off 17:07 < RangerZ1> sadly victims there die too fast 17:07 < eryc_> the CIA ruined vaccines in pakistan 17:07 < RangerZ1> yep 17:08 < RangerZ1> b/c everyone always thought the USA was doing taht 17:08 < RangerZ1> that*, but we had spent 75 years of vaccinating to build trust 17:08 < RangerZ1> but who cares...lets just throw that away 17:09 < RangerZ1> ohh... and about Jordan... those two prisoners were already on Death Row 17:09 < RangerZ1> so their 'sudden' executions is the only 'thing' 17:09 < dfused> so they just Texas'd them 17:17 < RangerZ1> also... earlier someone said something about Elonka working for Dink's company, and that doesn't appear to be the case 17:18 <@Mirage> case in point, Smallpox has supposedly been eradicated twice 17:18 < RangerZ1> perhaps both companies have a business deal, or something, but different LLCs 17:18 <@oddball> Yeah... pretty sure completely different missions. 17:18 < RangerZ1> Mirage: and each time its brought back by someone purposely digging up a cow that died from it 17:19 < RangerZ1> smallpox originally was carried by camels (IIRC) 17:19 -!- scoob [~scoob@fsf/member/scoob] has quit [Quit: ruh roh] 17:21 <@Mirage> RangerZ1: regardless, through vaccinations and treatment they claimed to have eradicated it, but it still came back. 17:22 < aestetix> oddball: so if someone decides not to get a vaccine, should the government penalize them? 17:22 < RangerZ1> Mirage: did they? 17:22 < RangerZ1> or did they eradicate it from humans? 17:22 < RangerZ1> because... there is a difference 17:23 <@oddball> aestetix: In the sense that they/their kids can't go to public school, etc... yes. 17:23 < RangerZ1> or into public 17:23 < RangerZ1> BUT... 17:23 < aestetix> lol 17:23 < RangerZ1> at what point does endangering the child come into play? 17:23 -!- scoob [~scoob@c-24-126-134-78.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 17:23 < aestetix> oddball: if you have the vaccine, doesn't that protect you from the disease? 17:23 <@Bahhumbug> The needs of the many and all that. Get your spawn vaccinated. Period. Stop making it an option. 17:23 -!- scoob [~scoob@c-24-126-134-78.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:23 -!- scoob [~scoob@fsf/member/scoob] has joined #se2600 17:24 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: thank you Karl Marx 17:24 < RangerZ1> aestetix: it makes your child more resilient 17:24 <@Bahhumbug> aestetix: Choke on a knife. Thanks. 17:24 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: don't you mean a sickle? 17:24 < RangerZ1> aestetix: there is 3% chance it doesn't cause anti-bodies to be produced 17:25 <@Bahhumbug> No. I mean you should go fellate a kitchen knife. 17:25 < RangerZ1> aestetix: we've all seen the video... you can't fit something that big down your throat 17:25 < aestetix> So if you are smart and get vaccinated, you should be able to go to school just fine. 17:25 <@oddball> There's a small percentage of folks that the vaccine fails to work on, and there's also a small percentage of folks that can't take the vaccine for medical reasons (example: some folks are allergic to eggs, which are a key ingredient for some vaccines). 17:25 < RangerZ1> oddball: the eggs thing is old now 17:25 < RangerZ1> there is now MMR with 0 egg protien 17:25 <@oddball> RangerZ1: Just an example that came to mind. 17:26 < RangerZ1> yeah, I know, I keep track of that b/c of my mom 17:26 <@Bahhumbug> ? 17:26 < RangerZ1> 1/4 of flu shots are egg-free 17:26 < RangerZ1> my mom is allergic to eggs 17:26 <@Bahhumbug> Your mom is allergic to eggs? 17:26 < aestetix> oddball: so the point is to protect that small percentage from exposure? 17:26 <@Bahhumbug> Sucks, dude. Sorry to hear that. 17:26 <@oddball> yes 17:26 < RangerZ1> not really, its no big deal 17:26 < RangerZ1> she isn't 'very' allergic to them 17:27 < RangerZ1> she 'can' eat them, just not pleasent 17:27 <@Bahhumbug> Ahh. 17:27 < RangerZ1> pleasant* 17:27 < aestetix> oddball: so I have to get a vaccine to make sure someone else doesn't get sick? 17:27 < aestetix> I though the point was so I don't get sick 17:27 <@oddball> It's both. 17:28 <@oddball> It's called herd immunity. 17:28 < RangerZ1> aestetix: the 'point' is to do both 17:28 < RangerZ1> b/c the vaccine has a small % to 'not' work for you 17:28 < aestetix> So it's making me responsible for someone else's health? 17:28 < RangerZ1> so YOU getting all your vaccines, and everyone else doing the same 17:28 <@Bahhumbug> And the selfless part is where people stop thinking only of their own spawn and start thinking about others. 17:28 < RangerZ1> you both help each other out 17:28 < aestetix> RangerZ1: that's great. 17:28 < RangerZ1> aestetix: I thought you had friends who died of HIV/AIDS 17:29 <@oddball> There's a bunch of people that make the argument that it's their life, and they can risk dying a slow, painful death if they want. 17:29 < aestetix> RangerZ1: why does the government need to mandate that? 17:29 < RangerZ1> why the FUCK DOES IT NOT? 17:29 <@Bahhumbug> oddball: I call foul on that. 17:29 < RangerZ1> aestetix: look up 'measles' on wiki 17:29 <@oddball> Bahhumbug: That folks are making that argument? 17:29 < RangerZ1> it is tied for #1 MOST communicable disease _known to man_ 17:29 < aestetix> RangerZ1: and what does the government do if I don't get it? 17:30 < aestetix> Do I get thrown in jail? 17:30 < RangerZ1> no 17:30 < RangerZ1> thats the problem 17:30 <@Bahhumbug> Yes. I agree that it _is_ their life. But when that life can affect others with a negative impact things kinda change. 17:30 <@oddball> right. 17:30 < RangerZ1> the problem is that we are pretending that 'parents have the right to OWN their children' 17:30 < aestetix> RangerZ1: they do have the right to raise them how they see fit. 17:30 <@Bahhumbug> RangerZ: I was thinking that exact thing. 17:30 <@oddball> Which is why I, and my libetarian buddy are perfectly fine with requiring kids to get their shots if they want to go to public school. 17:30 <@Bahhumbug> Raise them != immunizing them 17:30 < RangerZ1> aestetix: no they do NOT 17:31 < RangerZ1> if your parents thougth slitting you with razor blades was 'best for you' 17:31 < RangerZ1> they wouldn't be allowed to do that 17:31 <@oddball> You want to live up in the hills and home school your kid? Fine.. go for it, but you start forcing my kid to be around yours... 17:31 < aestetix> RangerZ1: do you believe your home is your castle? 17:32 < RangerZ1> sure, but that doesn't mean I don't have to pay taxes 17:32 < RangerZ1> nor does it allow me to have serfs 17:32 < RangerZ1> or slaves 17:32 < RangerZ1> b/c it would be infringing those _people's rights_ 17:32 <@oddball> I have to agree with his statement "should vaccinations be manditory? hmmm... no. Are you an idiot if you don't get your shots? yep." 17:32 <@Bahhumbug> My issue with all this, from the point of a non-parent, is that a child whose parents did not immunize them gets around children that are too young or otherwise unable to receive the vaccine can infect them. That's where the line gets drawn to me. Keep your potentially deadly spawn away from other kids. 17:32 < RangerZ1> why does it matter if the 'other person' is genetically related to me? 17:32 < aestetix> if you choose not to use any government services, it dooes mean you don't have to pay taxes. 17:33 < RangerZ1> aestetix: no it doesn't 17:33 < RangerZ1> unless you are amish 17:33 < RangerZ1> amish get special laws 17:33 < aestetix> ok, so let's assume vaccination should be required by law 17:33 < RangerZ1> but other than them... nope 17:33 < aestetix> what kind of law? 17:33 <@Bahhumbug> You live in a nice little world, aestetix. Too bad _this_ world doesn't work that way. 17:33 < aestetix> state level? federal? municipal? 17:33 <@oddball> Yeah... I don't get to not pay property tax that goes to the local schools because I don't have a kid. 17:33 < RangerZ1> federal mandate of each state 17:33 < RangerZ1> like ALL other federal regulations 17:34 < aestetix> So we're right back to jefferson/hamilton 17:34 < RangerZ1> otherwise the state doesn't get federal funding for medical services/etc 17:34 < RangerZ1> no we aren't 17:34 < RangerZ1> we're back to the 14th amendment 17:34 < RangerZ1> and you're being purposely stupid about this 17:35 < RangerZ1> I assume you are actually smarter than this, and are trying to play devil's advocate 17:35 < RangerZ1> but it doesn't work when your hypotheticals aren't viable 17:35 < aestetix> THe one thing I will agree on is that the US is completely broken. 17:35 < aestetix> I can't wait to be in germany 17:36 < aestetix> Actually 17:36 < RangerZ1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home 17:36 < PigBot`> Title: Corporal punishment in the home - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) 17:36 < aestetix> The other thing I'll agree on is that this issue is insanely complex. 17:36 < RangerZ1> Germany where spanking your child is illegal nationwide 17:36 < RangerZ1> ;) 17:36 < RangerZ1> the USA doesn't have a state where -in home- spanking is illegal 17:36 < aestetix> Germany where the health care system actually works. 17:37 < RangerZ1> b/c of spineless politicians 17:37 < RangerZ1> but I bet we will within 10 years 17:37 < aestetix> I doubt it 17:37 < aestetix> The health insurance companies have way too much money and power 17:37 < RangerZ1> b/c of the growing medical documentation of the harm it produces in a child's mental development b/c of changes in brain chemistry 17:38 < RangerZ1> Portlandia 17:38 < aestetix> uhhhh 17:38 < RangerZ1> they would be the first 17:38 < aestetix> We also have evidence of the medicinal value of marijuana but it's still schedule 1 17:38 < RangerZ1> thats a 'federal' issue 17:38 < RangerZ1> spanking is 'state' 17:41 < RangerZ1> yes, it does feel 'icky' to tell a parent that they don't get to decide something about their child... but 17:41 < RangerZ1> we do it for dogs 17:42 < aestetix> RangerZ1: glad you don't have kids :p 17:42 < aestetix> unless you do 17:42 < RangerZ1> not yet, I was smart enough to know not to have a kid until I can afford them -after- the recession+ getting my degrees 17:43 < RangerZ1> hmm 17:43 < aestetix> one thing I will say 17:43 < aestetix> something has happened in the US where we are no longer capable of actual debate and discussion 17:43 < RangerZ1> so ohio -requires- Tdap-Tetanus, diphtheria, acellular pertussis 17:43 < aestetix> the chat on vaccines we just had.... imagine that on fox news 17:43 < RangerZ1> and polio 17:44 < RangerZ1> aestetix: I understand that its not 'popular' 17:44 < aestetix> re: the public school bit 17:44 < aestetix> I see no reason why the state can't set up a guideline for who can use state provided services 17:44 < RangerZ1> doesn't mean 'copernicus' was any more right/wrong b/c his stance was unpopular 17:44 < aestetix> so requiring kids to get vaccines before they attend public school, totally within logic 17:45 < RangerZ1> aestetix: how about s/attend public school/attend society 17:45 < RangerZ1> lol 17:45 < aestetix> I dont think the government provides society :p 17:45 < RangerZ1> this measles biggest outbreak happened b/c of Disney World 17:45 < aestetix> isn't disney world a private corporation? 17:46 < RangerZ1> aestetix: no Gov't -safeguards- society , by society's request 17:46 < aestetix> is that why we have the TSA :p 17:46 < RangerZ1> thats ---sorta--- the definition of government 17:46 < RangerZ1> yes 17:46 < RangerZ1> b/c so many americans were scared after 911 17:47 < RangerZ1> TSA wasn't protested and rioted against at the time 17:47 < RangerZ1> or even now 17:47 <@Dagmar> Pussies 17:47 < aestetix> So what else can the government require? 17:47 < RangerZ1> healthcare via its power to tax 17:47 < aestetix> For example, can they require a baby to submit fingerprints before being granted a birth certificate? 17:48 < RangerZ1> aestetix: nope 17:48 < RangerZ1> baby finger prints can sometimes not be 'active' yet when born 17:48 < aestetix> ok 17:48 < RangerZ1> especially premies 17:48 < aestetix> can they require a couple to submit fingerprints to get a marriage license? 17:48 < RangerZ1> yes 17:48 < RangerZ1> many states do this 17:48 <@Mirage> And a lot of times they print the feet, not the hands 17:49 < RangerZ1> Mirage: (shhh I wasn't going to say that to him, since he brought up 'finger prints' ;) ) 17:49 < aestetix> can they set wages that businesses pay workers? 17:49 < RangerZ1> aestetix: federal minimum wage... and stae min. wages... 17:49 < aestetix> ok 17:49 < RangerZ1> you're just being stupid 17:49 < aestetix> can they set prices that goods can be sold at? 17:49 < RangerZ1> yes 17:50 < aestetix> so what can government NOT do? 17:50 < RangerZ1> they subsidize pork to increase the price to keep pork farmers in business 17:50 <@Mirage> RangerZ1: you shouldn't be suprised by anything other than it taking him this long 17:51 < aestetix> Mirage: I think RangerZ1 and I disagree on the role a government should have :) 17:51 < RangerZ1> no 17:51 < RangerZ1> you never asked what gov't SHOULD do 17:51 < aestetix> RangerZ1: or are you just going to tell me I am wrong 17:51 < RangerZ1> you asked what it CAN do 17:51 < aestetix> ll 17:52 < aestetix> ok sure replace all the cans with shoulds 17:52 < RangerZ1> you need to learn to fucking be precise with your wording 17:52 < RangerZ1> 'should' I dunno, I'm not an economist 17:52 < RangerZ1> lol 17:52 < RangerZ1> plus we covered like a dozen+ topics 17:52 <@Mirage> unfortunately logic and morals don't seem to have any place in gov't 17:52 < aestetix> Mirage: or accountability 17:53 < RangerZ1> 1) constititional amendment to limit campaign finances to public funding only 17:53 < RangerZ1> 2) anythng/everything else 17:53 < RangerZ1> b/c until #1, we're fucked 17:54 < dfused> abolish lobbying 17:54 < RangerZ1> dfused: I'm actually in 'favor' of lobbying 17:54 < RangerZ1> but not 'lobbying + funding' 17:55 < RangerZ1> if we got every tech/etc employee in nashville together (lets say 30% of the population) (not realistic, but for arguements sake) 17:55 < dfused> I suppose thats really the issue... teh inclusion of $$ is part of the very modern definition 17:55 < RangerZ1> we SHOULD be able to 'lobby' (without money, but WITH vote threates) 17:55 < RangerZ1> dfused: yep 17:57 <@Dagmar> Anyone want a spare phone? 17:57 <@Dagmar> Galaxy S3 in apparently very repairable condition, $50 http://nashville.craigslist.org/mob/4876829549.html 17:57 < PigBot`> Title: Samsung Galaxy S3 w/original box and bumper case (at nashville.craigslist.org) 17:58 <@Dagmar> It *might* require $40 in parts if the parts are actually broken 17:58 < aestetix> RangerZ1: how would you word such an amendment? 17:58 <@Dagmar> This I'm saying because I've had mine apart several times and know what those parts are and how they connect 18:02 < RangerZ1> aestetix: exact wording I'd leave up to lawyers 18:02 < RangerZ1> but lawywers are already drafting versions 18:02 < RangerZ1> mayday.us and wolf-pac.org 18:03 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: your phone? 18:03 < RangerZ1> or just found one? 18:06 < aestetix> wow 18:06 < aestetix> http://www.stripes.com/news/us/nbc-s-brian-williams-recants-iraq-story-after-soldiers-protest-1.327792 18:06 < PigBot`> Title: NBC’s Brian Williams recants Iraq story after soldiers protest - U.S. - Stripes (at www.stripes.com) 18:07 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: No, someone's selling one on Craigslist 18:07 <@Dagmar> It's the same model as mine tho 18:08 <@Dagmar> Both of those components connect to the board with a fiddly little connector and ribbon, and neither are expensive 18:08 <@Dagmar> They might just be disconnected 18:09 <@Dagmar> I mentioned it in the ENL slack channel because as it stands now the phone is suitable for playing INgress 18:09 <@Dagmar> Those aren't even really hard pieces to get at 18:09 <@Dagmar> I may be upgrading to an S4 or S5 later this week 18:10 <@Dagmar> It looks like an S4 is doable for about $225 18:25 <@Dagmar> Actually, $200 on ebay 18:30 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Quit: bleh] 18:42 <@NotLarry>  18:44 -!- Dolemite [~scott@h96-60-248-228.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11 <@Evilpig> having an argument with someone about upgrading bios/firmware in general 19:11 <@Evilpig> he wants every machine locked a specific version so they know how the provisioning enviroment will react 19:11 <@Evilpig> to the point where they have nagios checks written just to check versions... 19:12 <@Dagmar> Oh so you get the exact same hardware from the vendors each and every time? 19:12 <@Evilpig> I point out that some of the systems problems we've been trying to work around were actually fucking software bugs and have been fixed and verified in later releases that we've loaded just fine 19:12 <@Evilpig> it's all dell 19:12 <@Evilpig> but no that shit is all over the place 19:12 <@Evilpig> he wants us to downgrade firmware if it's newer, etc 19:12 <@Dagmar> Uhh no. 19:12 <@Dagmar> That would be a bad idea. 19:13 <@Evilpig> I told him I'm fine with running a set version, HOWEVER, we should be testing new versions on select nodes as they are released to see if they help us or not 19:13 <@Evilpig> I'm not advocating to update every node every time. fuck no 19:13 <@Dagmar> Actually, I'd say to just let the new boxes that come in which have the newer BIOS be the test platforms for that 19:13 <@Evilpig> but sitting in one version expecting it to just work, when it clearly has issues is retarded 19:14 <@Dagmar> I would sure as hell never, ever downgrade the BIOS, because Dell doesn't change those things without good reason. 19:14 <@Evilpig> I've got a node that isn't responding to power events. so what's my solution. well I want to upgrade the bios and idrac/bmc before I swap the board out 19:14 <@Dagmar> Downgrading BIOS on their stuff is basically guaranteed to incur bugs and problems 19:14 <@Evilpig> if that fixes it up, fuck yeah. let's see how it goes 19:14 <@Dagmar> Keeping the IDRACs in sync is not a problem because they don't affect what the rest of the system does at all 19:15 <@Dagmar> ...but I wouldn't fucking downgrade those either 19:15 <@Evilpig> he's trying to say that upgrading the idrac/bmc shit causes some nodes to freeze. in the past yes one of the C6105 varients crashed so hard it took the system down with it 19:15 <@Dagmar> Yeha, WHEN it's upgraded 19:15 <@Dagmar> That's what fuckin' change windows are for 19:15 <@Dagmar> You should just cut his brake lines 19:15 <@Dagmar> Maybe some crushed glass in his food 19:16 <@Evilpig> no like the idrac would freeze and would fuck the board over in a way that it hard locked the system. not during an update just randomly during operation 19:16 <@Evilpig> it was one of those versions that dell disappeared from their site after the bug was fixed 19:16 <@Dagmar> That would be easily determinable by calling Dell after the new machine is fucking up 19:17 <@Dagmar> Fuck his downgrading 19:17 <@Dagmar> It doesn't even make sense 19:17 <@Evilpig> all of this I told him i agreed with him on about mass updates and automated updates. no. but testing new shit selectively, yes. it is to be done 19:19 -!- sasquatc4 [~sasquatc4@73.181.12.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19 <@Dagmar> You know... it would be really cool if these occasional NPEs got even a *little* bit of useful information out of Java 19:19 <@Evilpig> I see this also as a problem of "this happened that one time but now it's the rule instead of the exception" 19:20 <@Dagmar> Hell man. End run around that fucker. 19:20 <@Evilpig> I was 19:20 <@Evilpig> until I was outted by some dumbshits 19:20 <@Dagmar> Write a formal policy dictating when, how often, and why you do both BIOS and iDRAC 19:20 <@Evilpig> not my dept 19:20 <@Evilpig> even though we're responsible for the hardwrae 19:20 <@Dagmar> Oh then LET them fuck it all up 19:21 <@Dagmar> If they're changing the firmware without your control, the firmware isn't your problem anymore 19:21 <@Evilpig> it's a matter of if dell is gonna replace my shit they want ot be sure i've tried everything before I put new parts in it 19:21 <@Dagmar> If they want to make it a policy to introduce regressions, that's their fun and fireballs 19:21 <@Evilpig> that generally means latest bios and whatever 19:22 <@Evilpig> with as much as I like telling dell fuck off, i'm not doing that. this is one of those times when I semi-agree 19:22 <@Dagmar> Downgrading firmware you just got from the vendor without any specific reason is fuckin' stupid 19:22 <@Dagmar> Just tell 'em point blank the only thing it's going to do is cause problems by reverting fixes and improvements the vendor made 19:23 <@Dagmar> I do b'leeve the specific verbiage is "This is a policy of introducing regressions as often as possible." 19:23 <@Dagmar> "...which puts us into an adversarial mode with our hardware provider." 19:23 <@Evilpig> I'm sure there will be a meeting to discuss this at which point i'll lay it all out again, then point out the idiocy of this other point of view 19:23 <@Dagmar> Lean on the word "regression". 19:24 <@Evilpig> yar 19:24 <@Dagmar> It is _precisely_ what they're doing by downgrading. 19:26 <@Dagmar> Alrighty... Clearly I'm pro 19:26 <@Dagmar> Somehow I managed to fuck up a for loop 19:26 <@Dagmar> Just the loop itself. None of the instructions inside it. 19:26 <@Evilpig> heh. 19:26 <@Dagmar> for ( int index = 0; index < 9; index++ ) { <-- this NPEs 19:26 <@Dagmar> *blinkblink* 19:27 <@Evilpig> that looks right 19:27 <@Dagmar> Maybe index is a reserved word and the IDE is keeping it a secret? 19:28 <@Evilpig> possible 19:28 <@Evilpig> change it to i 19:29 <@Dagmar> *facepalm* 19:29 * Dagmar flips the switch back to 'debug'. 19:30 <@Dagmar> I bet I get something useful out of it now 19:32 <@Dagmar> *facepalm* 19:32 <@Dagmar> long[] timeline = new long[8]; 19:32 <@Dagmar> timeline[8] = timeline[2] + ( checkpointPeriod * 6 ); 19:33 <@Dagmar> Lemme just change that first 8 to a 9 like I actually know what I'm doing 19:34 <@Dagmar> I love how I can code for hours, testing each function as I go, and they all work fine 19:34 <@Dagmar> ...and the moment I write three at once, the first one is fatally flawed somehow. 19:48 <@shapr> Hm, should I be able to execute autossh @reboot from cron as a non-root user? 19:49 <@Dagmar> Sure. 19:50 <@Dagmar> Will it actually *do* it? Probably not. 19:50 <@shapr> :-( 19:50 <@shapr> internets imply it will work 19:50 <@Dagmar> Typically issuing a reboot instruction you intend to see carried out requires elevated privs 19:50 <@Dagmar> THE INTERNET IS FULL OF STUPID PEOPLE WHO THINK SUDO IS A MAGIC WORD 19:51 <@shapr> wat, no 19:51 <@shapr> I mean, a cron job that runs @reboot 19:51 <@Evilpig> it isn;t? 19:51 <@Dagmar> Why do you keep typing the at sign 19:51 <@shapr> because that's how you do it in crontab -e 19:52 <@Dagmar> How you do _what_ in crontab? 19:52 <@Evilpig> add an action on a reboot 19:53 * shapr reboots the server just to try it 19:53 < aestetix> sudo IS a magic word 19:53 <@shapr> I hope nobody was using the server for anything important. 19:53 * shapr shrugs 19:53 <@Dagmar> Just use a delay of fifteen seconds 19:53 <@Dagmar> If they deserve to use it, they'll be able to stop it in time 19:54 <@Evilpig> I prefer my magic words to be more classic like abracadadbra 19:54 <@Dagmar> Anyway, to skip a few steps ahead, provided that your crond actually recognizes the "@reboot" token as something it should execute after the system boots up, and you put this in _root's crontab_ entries, it should work 19:55 <@Dagmar> I'm not commenting on it being the wrong way to deploy a system service 19:55 <@shapr> I'm just trying to run autossh from my user account on the server 19:55 <@shapr> because the *$*( admins are using cisco vpn 19:56 <@Dagmar> Okay it should run but it'll be subject to whether or not the autossh invocation needs privs to bind to whatever the hell it's doing 19:56 <@Evilpig> http://team.macnn.com/drafts/crontab_defs.html 19:56 < PigBot`> Title: Crontab Command Definitions (at team.macnn.com) 19:57 <@Dagmar> lookit me coding incomprehensibly long lines in java like a professiona: timelabel.setText(getString(timelabels[SepticycleInfo.getSignificance(timeline[index])]) + ": "); 19:57 <@Dagmar> Imma bitch slap someone for this someday 20:05 <@Bahhumbug> shapr: It should work, yes. 20:05 <@Bahhumbug> Assuming vixie's cron, anyway. 20:07 * shapr sighs 20:07 <@shapr> well, autossh still won't fire up :-( 20:07 <@oddball> Hmmm... talking to my dad, and apparently they got a foot and a half of snow after I left. 20:07 <@shapr> even with a private key that has no password and -i and all that 20:07 * shapr shrugs 20:07 <@shapr> I hope the server doesn't get rebooted 20:07 <@Dagmar> Can you run it by hand 20:08 <@shapr> yeah, but I don't have access to the server when I'm working remotely 20:08 <@shapr> so if it gets rebooted, no more server access 20:08 <@Dagmar> What happens if you start it twice? 20:08 <@shapr> nothing, it only runs once 20:08 -!- PeteDaGuru [~PeteDaGur@user-0c99bgh.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:08 <@Dagmar> No. 20:08 <@Dagmar> What happens if you accidentally run it from the command line twice in a row 20:09 <@Dagmar> Anything bad? 20:09 <@shapr> it only runs once, I checked 20:09 <@shapr> nope 20:09 <@shapr> why? 20:09 <@shapr> put in two different cron jobs? 20:09 <@Dagmar> Okay so fuck "@reboot". Just slap some asterisks in there 20:09 <@Dagmar> ;) 20:09 <@Evilpig> gremlins 20:09 * shapr laughs 20:09 <@Evilpig> lol 20:09 <@Dagmar> * * * * * autossh # all day long because I'm an asshole 20:10 <@shapr> ok, that's funny 20:10 <@Dagmar> I mean, it's needless to run it every minute, but if nothing bad happens it *will* work 20:13 < aestetix> lol 20:13 < aestetix> * * * * * reboot 20:13 < aestetix> put that in the root crontab for lots of fun 20:13 <@Dagmar> That would be evil 20:14 <@Dagmar> Might as well just change the default runlevel to 6 20:14 <@Dagmar> A noobmin would _never_ figure that shit out 20:15 <@Dagmar> Not that I've ever done that to anyone or anything 20:15 <@Dagmar> >.> 20:15 <@Bahhumbug> stty 0 in .profile used to be fun; most people never figured that out back in the day. 20:17 < aestetix> another evil thing to do is force an fsck on boot 20:18 < aestetix> or have a script that prepends a space to everyone's authorized_keys entries 20:18 <@Dagmar> No, it's only fun to force an fsck on reboot to people who've switched over to journaling filesystems 20:19 <@Dagmar> ...and who know enough to have turned that off. 20:19 <@Bahhumbug> Along those lines, use debugfs to clri 0 on /dev/root 20:19 <@Dagmar> ...because after you do that, it never does an fsck unless it thinks they're something wrong. 20:19 <@Dagmar> er s/they're/there's/ 20:20 < aestetix> can you set a cron job to kill a PID of a random number? 20:21 < aestetix> actually a forkbomb would be more evil than a reboot 20:25 <@Dagmar> It would also be unsubtle 20:27 < aestetix> what about something that increases disk activity over time? 20:27 < aestetix> and makes the system eventually unusable 20:27 <@Dagmar> Not a bright thing to do on a system he needs to use 20:27 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600 20:27 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ 20:30 <@Dagmar> WoW UI Porn: http://vimeo.com/118511375 20:30 < PigBot`> Title: SilverUI2 on Vimeo (at vimeo.com) 20:33 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:33 <@Evilpig> nifty but distracting 20:51 < RangerZ1> I don't thnk so 20:52 < RangerZ1> depending on the exact pr-set of the cicle UI, the countdown on which skill is about to run out might be ideal actually 20:52 <@Bahhumbug> aestetix: */10 * * * * kill -9 $RANDOM 2>&1 20:53 < RangerZ1> give you your 'move' zone... and then your skill, with HPs being easy 'peripheral vison' target 20:54 < RangerZ1> 'if' the cycle has sets of skill pairs/countdowns/etc... then perhaps this is whats really the best for movement, etc. 20:55 < RangerZ1> for a -long- time I've felt that wow would be a lot easier if it had controller support (same for Diablo 3) 20:55 < RangerZ1> also... Diablo 3 is getting interesting again 20:55 < RangerZ1> the different Torment levels makes it actually possible to gear up and everything 22:04 <@oddball> Hmmm.... maybe I'll wear my "Kilted for Her Pleasure" t-shirt for the meeting Friday. It might make Crazy Pants' head explode if she shows up. 22:06 <@Bahhumbug> Do It! 22:07 <@Bahhumbug> Bonus points for filming her head exploding. 22:07 <@oddball> heh 22:07 <@oddball> Now for the question: tartan or utilikilt? 22:09 <@Bahhumbug> I have no idea how to answer that :) 22:29 <@Dagmar> I think I'm going to reinstate the SMS block for Lindsey 22:30 <@Dagmar> Jesus christ she's a pain in the ass 22:34 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: I was wondering how my bet was coming along. 22:34 <@Evilpig> hehe 22:35 <@Evilpig> virgil sent me his http://onion.city link again to show me how much faster he had gotten it 22:35 < PigBot`> Title: OnionCity. We only serve onions. (at onion.city) 22:35 <@Evilpig> I hit him back with ... well... doctype html, and you have a half open div. ;) 22:35 <@Evilpig> he has since fixed those 22:35 <@Dagmar> _NSAKEY: Well, she just pulled a complete primma donna bitch act on me 22:36 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: The bet was over whether you'd get back together with her, so it sounds like my $1 is safe right now. 22:39 <@Dagmar> Oh there is just no fucking way 22:40 < dfused> awww. come on ... crazy bitches are often great in bed 22:40 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: you owe Elonka and _NSAKEY a dollar ;) 22:40 * Evilpig puts a wig on dfused 22:40 <@Dagmar> I had plenty of time to see for myself that Lindsey is bad in the sack. 22:40 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: No, he doesn't. 22:40 < dfused> lol 22:40 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: For what 22:40 < _NSAKEY> The bet was over whether he would get back with her or not. 22:40 < dfused> Evilpig: I'm not shaving my damn legs again 22:40 < _NSAKEY> Elonka is betting that they do. 22:40 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar and I are betting that he doesn't. 22:41 <@Dagmar> Elonka doesn't understand what a self-centered bitch Lindsey is 22:41 < _NSAKEY> s/they do/he does/ 22:41 <@Evilpig> I'm betting that somehow crazypants gets fleas 22:41 < RangerZ1> ohh I thought it was just 'talk' 22:41 < RangerZ1> lol 22:41 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ1: Even if that was the bet, Dagmar hasn't actually stated that he talked back. 22:42 <@Dagmar> Seriously, I've been sitting here all goddamn day working on a fucking app for Ingress, and she has the nerve to talk shit at me over SMS about how I can't possbly make fields to affect the game score becuase I haven't been doing it in awhile or something 22:42 <@Evilpig> does heavy breathing and grunting count as talking back? 22:42 * Evilpig backs away 22:44 < RangerZ1> so I'm trying to get a few of the grad student girls to start coming to meetings 22:44 < RangerZ1> "here is X and here is Y, and they go to Vanderbilt and have gotten degrees... and passed their tests" 22:45 < RangerZ1> would that be mean? 22:45 < RangerZ1> hehehe 22:45 <@Dagmar> ONly if you don't season them 22:46 < RangerZ1> One is Indian, and the other is Chinese, so they come pre-spiced 22:46 < RangerZ1> cumin and MSG ;) 22:47 <@Evilpig> and if they ever see this log. LOL 22:47 < RangerZ1> nah, they were the ones who joked about that first 22:47 < RangerZ1> so I'm safe 22:48 < _NSAKEY> ... There goes my plan of printing scrollback and walking it into the meeting. 22:48 <@Evilpig> _NSAKEY: crazypants has that covered 22:49 <@Evilpig> here i'll ensure it 22:49 <@Evilpig> nigger 22:49 <@Dagmar> *eyeroll* 22:49 <@Evilpig> ^logs catch that ? 22:49 < RangerZ1> why even say that? 22:49 <@Evilpig> I'm a filthy racist 22:49 < dfused> haha 22:50 <@Evilpig> I think i'm anti-women, might be a neo-nazi, and i'm pretty sure i'm a child predator 22:50 < RangerZ1> nah 22:50 < RangerZ1> nazi hate gingers 22:50 <@Evilpig> token ? 22:50 < _NSAKEY> Evilpig: I would suggest putting that in the topic so that nobodu misses it, but that would probably get all of us glined. 22:51 < RangerZ1> anyone have Anthem here? 22:51 <@Dagmar> have what? 22:52 < RangerZ1> Anthem Health Insurance 22:52 <@Dagmar> Not that I'm awawre of 22:52 <@Dagmar> I need to sign up with an ACA company in the next few days 22:52 < RangerZ1> Apparently FBI is investigating a hacking attack against them 22:52 < RangerZ1> to the point where it just came across the news 22:52 <@Dagmar> I find it hard to believe I'm getting a fair deal being asked to pay >$400/month 22:52 <@Evilpig> I honestly don't know who my insurance is with 22:52 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: nope 22:53 < aestetix> Evilpig: pray it isn't HIP 22:53 < aestetix> (Health Insurance Plan) 22:53 <@Dagmar> My health insurance should not cost more than my damn car insurance 22:53 < RangerZ1> Dagmar: also, it depends on your coverage and your deductible 22:53 <@Dagmar> Certainly not more per month than the latter is per six months 22:53 <@Evilpig> aestetix: all I know is that I don't pay shit out of pocket for stuff 22:53 < dfused> why? you dont think you're worth more than your car? 22:53 <@Evilpig> and I don't pay anything per month for it 22:53 <@Dagmar> I think I have to spend more on repairing my car than the $200 or so I've spent on doctors in the last eight years 22:54 <@Dagmar> Then again, car repair places actually have to compete 22:54 < dfused> mebbe you havent been probed enough to know more is wrong with you 22:55 < dfused> speaking of whihc: http://i.imgur.com/ei7zW7l.jpg 22:55 < dfused> work safe... 22:56 <@Evilpig> wtf are you doing post SFW shit in here 22:56 < dfused> temping fate I suppose 22:56 < dfused> tempting 22:58 < RangerZ1> dfused: I was about to say ...25 degrees F 22:59 < dfused> wha? 22:59 < RangerZ1> temping fate ;) 22:59 < dfused> oh...lol 22:59 < dfused> she's a cold bitch 23:02 < RangerZ1> or 1000000 K 23:02 <@Dagmar> UNits are important. 23:03 < dfused> thats what she said 23:03 <@Dagmar> Razen just upgraded his CPU cooler and commented on Facebook that it was now holding at a steady 75 under load 23:03 < RangerZ1> hehe 23:03 <@Dagmar> I'm like "That's 75C, right?" 23:03 < RangerZ1> should be way lower than 75C 23:04 <@Dagmar> I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about it holding at barely above room temperature 23:05 <@Dagmar> Mind you this is a guy I had to *intervene* on his main gaming desktop 23:06 <@Dagmar> It was acting flaky and so he just took the side off of it and pushed a box fan up against it 23:06 <@Dagmar> The CPU cooler was _completely_ clogged 23:06 < dfused> when in doubt...add more fans 23:06 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: Sounds like he's qualified to make a bitcoin mining rig. 23:06 <@Dagmar> It _burned my hand_ when I took the cooler off 23:07 <@Dagmar> More fans won't help when your heatsink is a solid block of dust 23:07 < _NSAKEY> I had a similar problem a couple months ago. 23:07 < _NSAKEY> I hadn't dusted my box since building it last year, and it had just enough dust around the CPU heatsink to shut off under extreme load. 23:07 <@Dagmar> The damn thing was running at 181F according to the BIOS 23:08 < _NSAKEY> Blowing it out and cleaning the dust from the rest of it solved my problem. 23:08 <@Dagmar> AMD chips can really put up with some shit 23:08 < _NSAKEY> That's crazy. 23:08 <@Dagmar> No, crazy was their old K6-2 450 23:08 <@Dagmar> That motherfucker _idled_ at 140F and hung around at 165F under load 23:09 <@Dagmar> I actually had to get a peltier unit and stick it under the heat sink just to keep it under 150F 23:09 <@oddball> Oh god... those things. 23:09 <@Dagmar> Intel and AMDs development had forked much more than usual there 23:10 <@Dagmar> Intel spent some time figuring out how to make their chips run cooler, AMD spent their money figureing out how to make their CPUs survive the heat 23:10 <@Dagmar> ...but that 450 was crazy 23:27 <@Dagmar> Ugh. That Inkscape update broke snap to grids. 23:35 < aestetix> dfused: hold on I have to find a link to post to cancel out your SFWness 23:36 < aestetix> https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sgn6_hoI5Hk/UBqITt_g0TI/AAAAAAAAD3w/Fkvxhnb_IzU/s1600/Complete+uterovaginal+prolapse_procidentia.jpg 23:36 <@Dagmar> No that's... that's quite alright 23:36 < aestetix> there we go 23:43 < RangerZ1> HAHAHA 23:43 < RangerZ1> fox news went full Men's Rights Activist over Frozen 23:58 <@Dagmar> I think I'm about to officially be pissed at Android 23:58 <@Dagmar> I don't mind the RTC timer being inexact and late 23:58 <@Dagmar> I *do* mind it being inexact and _early_ 23:58 <@Dagmar> That fucks things up --- Log closed Thu Feb 05 00:00:23 2015