--- Log opened Mon Jan 05 00:00:36 2015
00:11 <@Evilpig> yeah csi
00:11 <@Evilpig> motherfucker...
00:11 <@Evilpig> i'm getting power brownouts
00:26 < aestetix> Is CSI worth watching?
00:26 < aestetix> A lot of those shows seem to follow an episodic pattern that's really predictable.
01:05 < RangerZ1> aestetix: they are called "formulaic"(s) for a reason http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrictlyFormula
01:06 < RangerZ1> they do it so that you know what you are expecting, its more of a 'here enjoy this ride you know you will like, you just don't know the turns that will be taken during the short ride", etc
01:19 < aestetix> RangerZ1: I find that lame.
01:19 < RangerZ1> well you aren't the target audience
01:21 < RangerZ1> Law & Order, is the classic example I can think of
01:21 < RangerZ1> NCSI I'd say is a mix, it has the 'formula' part, but also has longer story arcs
01:22 < RangerZ1> and thats why I like NCSI more than the others
01:22 < aestetix> It seems like a waste of time to watch the same bullshit over and over again.
01:26 < RangerZ1> its called "TV"
01:26 < RangerZ1> for a reason
01:26 < RangerZ1> lol
01:28 < RangerZ1> all cultures have story/plotlines that repeat... manga/anime in particular take it to a whole new level, but they are self-aware of this, and try to make the "experience" of the storytelling the unique part, where they play on the trope to the point where it becomes unique
01:29 < RangerZ1> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Tate_no_Yuusha_no_Nariagari is a really good example of this, the MC (main character) gets pulled to an alternate world to fight for peace... and what not...
01:29 < RangerZ1> and then it starts to break all the tropes over its knee and become a really good read
01:29 < RangerZ1> lol
01:37 <@Bahhumbug> CSI used to be good. Now... meh. I stopped watching it years ago; preferring both spinoffs (NY and Miami).
01:38 <@Bahhumbug> But like everything else in entertainment it's all subjective; what one person likes another hates.
01:39 <@SuMo_D> I love Law & Order and what they do I find it calming
01:40 <@SuMo_D> dun dun
01:40 < RangerZ1> lol
01:40 <@SuMo_D> most episodic shit makes me sad though... can't do it
01:41 <@Bahhumbug> The original Law & Order was good and I miss it. SVU is good but dark and depressing and makes me want to hurt people severely.
01:41 <@Bahhumbug> If you get a chance check out Law and Order: UK
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01:42 <@SuMo_D> yeah I don't like SVU as much... there are some good seasons but the recent ones are getting close to the bleh and stupid place
01:42 <@SuMo_D> yeah I've seen a few episodes of UK a long time ago
01:45 <@Bahhumbug> I strongly suspect this is SVU's last season.
01:45 <@Dagmar> Molten Core LFR Mode == Hell
01:47 <@SuMo_D> yeah I'd be surprised if it weren't sgt. Benson and the baby.... not sure if that's getting it
01:57 <@klixa> i quit watching svu a few years ago... as i get older i have no tolerance for negative things...i wanna see happy shows
02:01 < RangerZ1> like Dexter
02:01 <@klixa> i have never watched dexter (well i have seen snippets of it while fliping channels)
02:02 <@Bahhumbug> Dexter++
02:02 <@Bahhumbug> Gotta love the guys that take out the trash.
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04:50 < RangerZ1> http://nationalreport.net/itunes-spotify-announce-will-remove-icp-music/
04:50 < RangerZ1> umm.... what..
04:50 < RangerZ1> I'm not really a ICP fan, or someone who uses either itunes or spotify... but this seems odd
04:51 < RangerZ1> why would "several advertisers and sponsors" threaten to pull out if ICP is _on the library_
04:54 < RangerZ1> ohh fucking facebook... http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1176242-insane-clown-posse-hoax-itunes-and-spotify-announce-they-will-be-removing-all-icp-music-from-their-library-juggalos-mad/
04:55 < RangerZ1> fucking hoax
04:58 < RangerZ1> so... http://nationalreport.net/ is a fake news site...
04:59 < RangerZ1> FYI... b/c jesus... who can keep up... the onion was enough for me...
04:59 < RangerZ1> or foxnews.com
04:59 < RangerZ1> ;)
05:22 < aestetix> RangerZ1: I hate you
05:23 < aestetix> this video is hilariuos
05:23 < RangerZ1> lol
05:28 < aestetix> I take it gamergate is still going on?
05:28 < aestetix> I blocked most of that shit out from my twitter feed
05:28 < RangerZ1> i honestly have no idea
05:29 < RangerZ1> but I think so
05:29 < RangerZ1> but its mostly died out I think other than conservatives
05:29 < RangerZ1> everyone else was like 'well yes... there was something there, but the movement has been killed by PR, so fuck it...' LOL
05:29 < aestetix> no there wasn't
05:30 < aestetix> it was a bunch of fauxminists harping on about shit
05:30 < aestetix> while offering no solutions
05:31 < RangerZ1> huh?
05:32 < RangerZ1> no i meant the other side who didn't like the obvious 'closeness' of a lot of the media/devs in SF
05:32 < RangerZ1> the problem is basically SanFran ;)
05:32 < RangerZ1> because most of the Indie Dev scene is there, and most of the gaming journalists (in the US) are there too
05:33 < aestetix> RangerZ1: note that I have become a hermit largely because of shit shit
05:33 < aestetix> this shit*
05:33 <@Bahhumbug> And yet there are still people living under bridges and kids starving.
05:33 <@Bahhumbug> You know... just sayin'
05:33 < RangerZ1> but I don't think it is nearly as nefarious as most people think
05:33 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: and global warming.
05:33 < RangerZ1> its just that they have 'group think' and think alike, not that they are conspiring
05:33 < RangerZ1> lol
05:37 < aestetix> RangerZ1: I daresay that the group of recent-adults who waged gamergate probably realized that they needed to get actual jobs to live, meaning they couldn't deovte all this time to drama
05:38 < aestetix> That and the outrage fatigue that probably happened for people who just want to play games
05:39 < RangerZ1> nah
05:39 < RangerZ1> lol
05:40 < RangerZ1> who knows... and honestly I don't really care on an individual level
05:40 < aestetix> then what
05:40 < aestetix> lol
05:40 < RangerZ1> but at the meta level... I do think the branding mattered
05:40 < RangerZ1> people wouldn't fight for something seen as toxic
05:40 < RangerZ1> so they just stopped
05:41 < RangerZ1> kinda a smoother falling off then OWS, but I think same lesson to be learned
05:41 < RangerZ1> without a leader who can stand up for the movement and call out the assholes
05:41 < RangerZ1> movements are doomed to quick rises and falls...
05:42 < RangerZ1> sarkeesian isn't anything special, other than a good PR manipulator, but she is a decent enough 'leader' for her POV
05:43 < RangerZ1> hell even "hackers" have their 'big guns' to help them out, EFF, etc.
05:44 < RangerZ1> or big names in security like Schneier, or even older names like Mitnik
05:44 < RangerZ1> and 'hackers' isn't exactly the 'best' term out there now a days... lol
06:11 <@Shadow404> script kiddies?
06:23 < aestetix> indeed
06:23 < aestetix> I'm not sure what Sarkeesian contributes besides stupid drama
06:23 < aestetix> She's sort of a combination of an academic and a political hack
06:28 < RangerZ1> nope, I wouldn't even call her that, I'd call her a snake oil salesman
06:28 < RangerZ1> she's great at knowing what some people want to hear
06:28 < RangerZ1> and gives them just that
06:29 < aestetix> So she's the used car salesman of the feminist community?
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06:42 < RangerZ1> pretty much...
06:42 < RangerZ1> they've found video of her talking about how great this guy's seminar was on how to do public sales, etc
06:43 < RangerZ1> I don't think she's stupid, I think she's intellectually dishonest
06:43 < RangerZ1> (kinda worse in my opinion), lol
06:45 < RangerZ1> the scariest thing is... if she actually believes the nonsense she spouts off...
06:45 < RangerZ1> The problem is, there ARE points to be addressed in gaming, and in society in general, but she poisons the well
06:47 < RangerZ1> if she would attempt to find real examples and show how they are bad, and not make up examples like Hitman (where you specifically get penalized for kiling civilians) or GTA where you kill _everyone_ then... it would be a lot less BS drama all around
06:47 < aestetix> That would involve actually playing the games
06:49 < RangerZ1> well, the bigger issue is the base assumptions that she's using
06:49 < RangerZ1> that 50% of 'gamers' are female
06:49 < RangerZ1> and thats just not true
06:49 < RangerZ1> if you consider 'gamers' people who play solitare and freecell... 'sure'
06:49 < RangerZ1> b/c thats what the 'study' thats always cited does...
06:50 < RangerZ1> (I have no problems with the study itself, I think it was pretty clear what they were doing, etc... but I wouldn't count people who play RPGs, or FPSs in the same group as grandma who plays freecell
06:52 < aestetix> don't forget chip's challenege
06:52 < aestetix> and skifree
06:53 < RangerZ1> are there hardcore female gamers, yes (i've dated some, and know plenty more) and if you count 'moderate and occassional -gamers' then I'm sure it becomes more like 80%/20%, but hardcore-gamers, which the industry counts as people who buy multiple titles a year...
06:53 < RangerZ1> mostly guys still
06:53 < RangerZ1> don't know if 95/5 or 90/10
06:54 < RangerZ1> but I've seen those stats in different games
06:54 < RangerZ1> and the 80/20 is probably conservative estimate, might be close to 60/40, but who knows..
06:56 < RangerZ1> but either way, I think if someone took better intellectual honesty and made videos similar to hers, that they would actually be a LOT less drame-enspiring... but...
06:56 < RangerZ1> less drama = less paytreon, less XOXO talks, etc
06:57 < aestetix> heh
06:57 < aestetix> xoxo = hipstercon
06:58 < RangerZ1> personally I thought that was going to be PN next year... but I have a feeling that huricane Elonka... isn't going to let that happen, lol
06:58 < RangerZ1> s/next/this/
07:00 < aestetix> heh
07:00 < aestetix> did she conquer the meeting?
07:12 < aestetix> or lead it or whatever
07:12 < aestetix> she's good at doingthat
07:14 < RangerZ1> somewhat, the problem is more one of hearding cats
07:14 < RangerZ1> I'm really starting to think that we need to move from JJ's
07:15 < RangerZ1> great place to meet and hang out, but horrible for actually doing anything productive
07:17 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
07:19 <@Dolemite> RangerZ1: I was hoping that Elonka would come in like a hurricane... but about 2 months ago so that she could be eligible to run for an office
07:20 < RangerZ1> *shrugs* didn't happen, lol
07:21 <@Dolemite> Of course, without any capital, it's going to be very hard for anybody other than an angel investor to produce another PN
07:22 < RangerZ1> thats the shit I wanted addressed, but its still 'under the table' at this point, b/c neither ben nor corydon 1) knew or 2) was willing to say exactly... what the exact deal was
07:23 < RangerZ1> apparently dink is offering courses/services/hosting...or something..., and elonka and dru went and did videos promoting it... and anyone who signs up for the demo and says PN sent them... PN will get a cut
07:24 < RangerZ1> and that cut will be applied to the debt PN has with (either dink or dink's company)
07:24 <@Dolemite> So it IS debt...
07:24 <@Dolemite> Yeah, so fucking shady
07:25 < RangerZ1> and this needs to be cleaned up, b/c this kind of things is 1) ruins friendships 2) gets audits from IRS
07:25 < RangerZ1> lol
07:25 <@Bahhumbug> People need to stop being pussies about this and fucking DEMAND to see the books. You have a _legal right_ to do so.
07:26 <@Bahhumbug> RangerZ1: Seriously?
07:27 <@Dolemite> RangerZ1: As a dues paying member you need to be demanding this
07:27 <@Bahhumbug> ^ THAT
07:27 <@Bahhumbug> As I've been fucking saying for what? 6 months?
07:27 < RangerZ1> I'm going to be writing up an email and expecting this stuff in writing by next meeting
07:27 <@Dolemite> I'm no longer local and no longer an actual member. I have no right.
07:27 <@Bahhumbug> I am not a member so have less legal standing than you do :)
07:27 <@Bahhumbug> But I'm about 100% certain that a well-placed phone call will get this in the public eye.
07:28 < RangerZ1> I honestly had a lot of IRL Family shit going on past few months... couldn't really divert attention
07:28 < RangerZ1> but now I got time to call out BS
07:28 <@Bahhumbug> What's to divert? Seriously... "Dear idiots in charge. Present the current organizational finances. Period."
07:33 < RangerZ1> b/c it'll take time to keep on pushing through the expected BS that we were getting
07:34 < RangerZ1> but now that 'bs' is kinda past its age
07:34 < RangerZ1> b/c its so obvious, that it can't be ignored
07:35 <@Bahhumbug> "Present the financial information at the next meeting or I will be contacting the State of Tennessee"
07:35 <@Bahhumbug> Seriously... this is beyond ridiculous.
07:36 <@Bahhumbug> Oh, and actually grow a set and follow through.
07:36 <@Bahhumbug> You (all of you) have been letting the nimrods dictate to you and you forget they serve at _your pleasure_ as elected officers.
07:37 <@Dolemite> And then managed to get re-elected!
07:37 <@Bahhumbug> They have certain responsibilities and it's quite clear they are not keeping up their end of the bargain.
07:37 <@Bahhumbug> Dolemite: That's becauase benthemeek, while being a nice guy, has no backbone and/or is delusional.
07:37 <@Dolemite> They claim that the current by-laws restrict them from doing what they need to do... yet they don't do what the by-laws already dictate that they are supposed to do
07:38 <@Dolemite> benthegullible
07:40 <@Bahhumbug> If the by-laws are invalid so is their tenure in their elected offices. But that doesn't mean dick when a request comes in from a dues-paying member in good standing to see the current financial state of the organization.
07:41 <@Bahhumbug> Has anyone asked Tilghman for a balance sheet?
07:41 <@Bahhumbug> Asking Dru is likely to lead to terminal brain cancer.
07:45 <@Dolemite> The problem is that they ARE valid
07:46 <@Dolemite> They just have pesky things in them like accountability in rather vague terms
07:56 < aestetix> Anyone playd with the iOS diagnostics tool?
07:56 < aestetix> the one hidden in the Safari browser.
07:56 < aestetix> It's in theory only accessible to apple store employees, I'm trying to spoof it into working
08:00 * aestetix hugs Bahhumbug
08:00 * aestetix hugs Dolemite
08:06 <@Evilpig> bah!
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08:08 < aestetix> ok ok
08:08 * aestetix hugs Evilpig
08:09 <@Evilpig> okay... so my phone has decided to stop updating the inbox for my exchange connection. anyone ever have this happen before?
08:10 <@Evilpig> the connection is still valid, I acn do a search and it will do the extended server search and show me the new stuff in teh inbox but the inbox itself isn't updating
08:18 <@Evilpig> well that worked. removed my mobile device from the exchange side and just readded it from the phone. seems to be syncing now.
08:20 <@Bahhumbug> Exchange. Asked and answered :)
08:20 <@Evilpig> it works and I prefer it to gmail
08:21 < aestetix> Is it in the "it works" category that Windows Server is?
08:22 <@Evilpig> no. but necessary evil
08:22 <@Dolemite> Says the guy that was still running a Netware server at home within the past 10 years
08:22 <@Evilpig> that was also running my email for years until I moved it into exchange
08:23 <@Evilpig> I still prefer that over all the others
08:24 <@Bahhumbug> Have you tried zimbra?
08:24 <@Evilpig> can't say i've even heard of it
08:24 < aestetix> Isn't that Yahoo's thing?
08:24 <@Bahhumbug> And please, for the love of Cthulhu, tell me that exchange is not answering directly and you have postfix/clamav/SA sitting in front of it?
08:24 <@Bahhumbug> No, it has nothing to do with yahoo.
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08:25 < aestetix> Is there anything like spamassasin for exchange?
08:25 <@Bahhumbug> @google zimbra
08:25 <@GateKeeper> Bahhumbug: Zimbra: ; Zimbra Collaboration - Open Source Edition Downloads: ; Zimbra Web Client Log In: ; Zimbra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Zimbra Web Client Sign In: ; Zimbra Web Client Sign In: (1 more message)
08:25 <@Bahhumbug> GateKeeper, part
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08:25 <@Evilpig> Bahhumbug: I honestly have no idea how it's set up. it's a blackbox to me
08:25 <@Bahhumbug> Yes. There are many commercial products.
08:25 <@Evilpig> http://outlook.com
08:26 <@Bahhumbug> That's their web-based junk, right?
08:26 <@Evilpig> yes and no
08:26 <@Bahhumbug> web/mobile/flying-saucer/whatever
08:26 <@Bahhumbug> )
08:26 <@Evilpig> I use actual outlook
08:26 <@Bahhumbug> :)
08:28 < aestetix> Hmm.
08:29 < aestetix> Is there a good non-MS email client that supports gpg?
08:29 < aestetix> (and images.. sorry mutt)
08:29 < aestetix> Thunderbird is nice, but it's a huge CPU hog.
08:30 <@Evilpig> I will say this as well. outlook on the mac blows goats
08:30 < aestetix> Well I somewhat take that back. Thunderbird works after extensive tuning.
08:31 <@Evilpig> it connects to the server whenever it damn well pleases
08:33 <@Bahhumbug> Pictures in email? Really? The next thing you're going to tell me is you want html-formatted shit^Wmail.
08:34 <@Bahhumbug> And anyway, I find mutt perfectly fine for that as well. v, down arrow to attachment, s and save it somewhere and use real tools to deal with it.
08:35 <@opticron> hmmm...zimbra
08:35 <@Evilpig> Bahhumbug: aestetix needs pictures in email. that's how I sent him dick pics
08:36 <@opticron> has zimbra gotten any better in the last 3 or so major versions?
08:36 <@Bahhumbug> yes.
08:36 <@Bahhumbug> Evilpig: He can still have dick pics.
08:36 <@Bahhumbug> He just won't be viewing them directly in his mua.
08:37 <@Bahhumbug> (If you're running mutt under X you can configure mutt to properly handle them, just not in-line)
08:37 <@Bahhumbug> opticron: zimbra isn't exchange no matter how they market it. But it's about the best alternative there is at the moment.
08:38 <@Bahhumbug> Exchange is a simply _awesome_ product when used sanely.
08:39 <@Bahhumbug> That being said, I would never ever consider having it answer directly and not be behind a postfix content filtering store and forward setup.
08:42 <@opticron> yeah, my perspective on zimbra is apparently zimbra 7.x
08:44 <@opticron> but still using legacy in-browser editing of documents which makes it a horrible experience
08:47 * Bahhumbug nods
09:00 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: not so much for me, but it breaks a lot of formatting for others.
09:00 <@Bahhumbug> Tough shit for them.
09:00 < aestetix> Of course, I'm the only one in my NIST security group that signs their email.
09:01 <@Bahhumbug> ...
09:01 <@Bahhumbug> The only time I send unsigned email is facebook replies and sms-gateway messages.
09:02 <@Evilpig> aestetix: it's good you sign your emails. that way nobody can ever question if that dick pic came from you for real or not.
09:03 <@Bahhumbug> heh
09:04 <@Evilpig> if everything was signed we wouldn't have stuff like weinergate starring folks like anthony weiner
09:05 <@Evilpig> on another note... xkcd today. ROFL! http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/uv.png
09:09 < aestetix> no more poo jokes
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09:11 <@Evilpig> awwww. I was just about to go send you another one too
09:11 <@Bahhumbug> I am going to hold you to that, aestetix.
09:11 <@Bahhumbug> And on that note, see you ladies later.
09:11 * Bahhumbug &
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10:11 <@Evilpig> you have got to be shitting me
10:12 <@Evilpig> how the fuck can you ship 80+ sets of rails all with the wrong screws?
10:13 < RangerZ> lol
10:13 <@Dolemite> ewps
10:15 <@Dagmar> heheh
10:15 <@Dagmar> But doesn't everyone have like, a massive stockpile of the screws?
10:15 <@Dagmar> Frankly I'd be more concerned if the sent you a large bag full of different kinds of screws at random
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10:15 <@Evilpig> these aren't toolless rails
10:16 <@Evilpig> they have to be attached via screws and the threaded part is part of the rail
10:16 <@Dagmar> So use zip ties. :)
10:16 <@Evilpig> so I can't just slap a cagenut behind it
10:16 <@Evilpig> there's gonna be a phone call later to the tune of "how the hell did you manage to fuck this up?
10:16 <@Dagmar> They _probably_ actually sell the screws you need at the local hardware store\
10:16 <@Evilpig> we have rack screws here
10:16 <@Evilpig> not the point.
10:17 <@Evilpig> I just opened a brand new box of rails that have the wrong screws in them
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10:18 <@Evilpig> this is also our first order with them and it's over a mil in equipment you'd think they could take a few seconds to double check this shit
10:19 <@Evilpig> just opened another box of rails and same story
10:20 <@Evilpig> my regular rack screws fit just fine
10:22 <@Dagmar> Luckily, seeds do not make golems.
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10:57 <@Evilpig> haha
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11:27 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: claws mail is in TAILS. I would assume that means it supports PGP too.
11:35 < aestetix> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f93_1390833151
11:36 <@shapr> good morning?
11:36 <@shapr> brain is tired
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12:03 < RangerZ> ohh so NYPD is _still_ doing its work slowdown
12:03 < RangerZ> good for NYC citizens
12:04 < RangerZ> lol
12:06 < RangerZ> as of 2PM, 70% of citizens will live in a state with marriage equality (FL court is lifting the stay preventing it in that state)
12:06 <@shapr> there's always alabama
12:08 < RangerZ> I wonder which state is going to be the last
12:08 < RangerZ> that'll be an amusing (sad) "honor" for them
12:11 <@shapr> I'd bet on alabama
12:12 <@shapr> I've heard this is (was?) a law here saying that if an unmarried and unrelated guy and girl both check into a hotel, they're immediately common law married.
12:13 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: Either Utah or a state in the former Confederacy.
12:13 < RangerZ> utah already has it
12:13 < RangerZ> http://www.freedomtomarry.org/page/-/files/images/map.png
12:13 < RangerZ> add freedom to pure red
12:13 < RangerZ> FL*
12:14 < RangerZ> (both streets I used to live on... hence my swapping them by accident) lol
12:14 < _NSAKEY> I'm guessing ND, NE, or SD will be last, just because of their lawsuit statuses.
12:15 < RangerZ> AL, and GA are most likely...
12:15 < RangerZ> so shapr was probably right in his statement, lol
12:15 < _NSAKEY> Oh, totally didn't see those.
12:16 < _NSAKEY> This looks like a job for a 5-sided die.
12:17 < RangerZ> Ohio would be on that list too
12:17 < RangerZ> b/c republicans have jerryrigged that state so bad...
12:18 < RangerZ> despite it going democratic in last 2 (probably 3... but "hey", they can't prove the first... so 2) presidential elections have gone solidly democratic
12:19 < RangerZ> and "solidly" = blue where State Universities are, and red everywhere else... which means democrats win... lol
12:20 < RangerZ> because OH has a lot more state univ. than TN or most other states, lol
12:20 < RangerZ> at least 11 that I'm aware of... 7 of which are over 15k students, etc.
12:20 < aestetix> penis
12:23 < RangerZ> sorry 13 univ. 11 of which are over 13k
12:23 < aestetix> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh869301(v=vs.85).aspx
12:23 < aestetix> there is something deeply wrong with this
12:27 < RangerZ> in what way?
12:27 < RangerZ> that it starts off 'mozilla/' ?
12:28 < aestetix> yes
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12:38 <@shapr> HI KLIXA
12:39 <@klixa> hey shapr
12:39 <@shapr> HOW YOU DOIN?
12:39 <@shapr> shapr: get down off yer caps lock boy!
12:39 <@klixa> I LIKE CAPS DONT LISTEN TO HIM
12:40 <@shapr> oh no!
12:40 <@shapr> I haven't had enough sleep
12:40 <@shapr> I'm silly today
12:40 <@klixa> im ok...trying to decide where to live, which is hard when you are poor...tho according to Dolemite im not poor cause Im mobile, but hes wrong
12:40 <@opticron> just today? you sure?
12:40 <@shapr> hm, point
12:40 <@shapr> I'm silly most days
12:41 <@klixa> im in SoCal right now, but, i cant afford it out here... but, ack... i dunno...think i might go to kansas city day after tomorrow...or oregon... or reno, or tucson, ack i dunno
12:41 < aestetix> yuck
12:41 < aestetix> why are you down there
12:41 < aestetix> getting a nose job?
12:42 < RangerZ> are you living with your husband?
12:42 <@klixa> aestetix: cause its like 1/2 the cost of the bay
12:42 <@klixa> RangerZ: yes, but hes insane
12:42 < RangerZ> yeah... but where does his work take him?
12:42 <@klixa> no work atm
12:43 < RangerZ> I'd target anywhere with google fiber ;)
12:43 <@klixa> why
12:43 < RangerZ> sell VPS out of your bedroom -_-
12:43 < RangerZ> lol
12:43 <@klixa> i jead kansas city has google fiber
12:43 <@klixa> he has a job offer in portland, OR and one in Kansas city, mo
12:43 < RangerZ> thought reno is getting it too
12:44 <@klixa> but, i cant find anything cheap to move into instantly in portland
12:44 < RangerZ> but might be 'carson city' which is the big suburb of it
12:44 <@klixa> carson city is like 50 miles form reno and much smaller
12:44 <@klixa> maybe you mean sparks?
12:44 <@klixa> reno doesnt really have suburbs... theres reno/sparks...then the nothing
12:45 < RangerZ> nvm it was provo compared to salt lake city
12:45 < RangerZ> not NV
12:45 < aestetix> that's what they say about burning man
12:45 < aestetix> "It's so close to hell you can see Sparks"
12:45 <@klixa> provo is alos about 50 miles form SLC, and not a suburb
12:45 < RangerZ> *shrugs*
12:46 <@klixa> i like provo... thats who the company my bf was working for is based out of
12:46 <@klixa> where*
12:46 <@klixa> so i have been there many times for his work
12:46 < aestetix> you have a bf and a husband?
12:46 <@klixa> yes, lol
12:46 <@klixa> no
12:46 <@klixa> same person
12:47 <@klixa> we have been together 15 years
12:47 <@klixa> they are both just labels and everyone knows who is being talked about, so not gonna nitpick the details
12:48 < RangerZ> but Kansas city is the one with the most fiber installed
12:48 <@klixa> kansas city is cheap too
12:48 < RangerZ> both MO and Kansas sides
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12:50 < aestetix> yet anothr friend of mine made the forbes 30 under 30
12:51 <@klixa> ok, now you are acting all LA-esque :P
12:51 <@klixa> name dropper
12:51 < aestetix> that was not bragging
12:52 < aestetix> that was me going "I guess I'm not as good as him"
12:52 <@klixa> lol
12:52 < aestetix> also I didn't actually drop his name :p
12:53 <@klixa> i was reading an article by someone in SF about why they wont libe in colrado and it was something like "well, if they hade $150,000 a year jpbs there too id go" and it annoyed me, cause most people in SF are not making 150,000 a year
12:53 <@opticron> people in colorado don't NEED to make 150K/yr
12:53 < aestetix> that is correct
12:53 < aestetix> let me put it this way
12:54 < aestetix> average rent in SF is $3400 a month
12:54 < aestetix> and half of SF is moderately reasonable (richmond and sunset)
12:54 < aestetix> SOMA and the Mission are batshit
12:58 < RangerZ> and the 'reasonable' parts have owners who are thining of selling the building to get around the rent-controlled laws
12:58 < RangerZ> lol
12:58 <@klixa> i hate the bay
12:58 <@klixa> i hate the way the computer industry around there has turned it into this elitist shit hole
12:59 < RangerZ> Berkeley is great to live in if you get free room and board...
12:59 <@klixa> people brag about living their, crammed up next to each other with people living in tents, cars, and sleeping on the sidewalk all over the place
12:59 <@klixa> there*
12:59 < aestetix> RangerZ: no it isn't
12:59 <@klixa> there is a HUGE gap between the haves and have nots
12:59 < RangerZ> aestetix: I enjoyed it
12:59 < aestetix> Now it's full of asians and old hippies
12:59 <@klixa> the bay is a horrible, evil, wicked place
12:59 < aestetix> berkley is fucking boring
12:59 < RangerZ> thats my point
12:59 < RangerZ> boring, and if you want "excitement" then go to oakland protests
13:00 < RangerZ> or SF ;)
13:00 < RangerZ> lol
13:00 <@klixa> i like berkely, when you go to the hospital you dont worry you will catch the plague like in oakland
13:00 <@oddball> RangerZ: Yeah... that's a little too "may you live in interesting times" for me.
13:01 < RangerZ> oddball: I was staying at the International House at the top of Berkeley campus/etc, and enjoyed it
13:01 < RangerZ> 'asians' weren't a problem, lol
13:01 <@klixa> all i ever see in berkely is old hippies, young trendy hippies and homeless people
13:03 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAFKnfN4bfk enjoy
13:04 < RangerZ> aestetix: just stop being a fucking prick
13:05 < RangerZ> no, its not a 'bad' video, but you're purposely pushing fucking buttons to be an ass
13:05 < aestetix> I thought he might like it
13:05 < RangerZ> and thats not adult behavior , you're acting like a tween script kiddy or an "ironic hipster millenial"
13:05 <@klixa> hahaha
13:06 < aestetix> you should watch the video
13:06 <@klixa> ayn rand is too ugly to look at
13:06 < aestetix> s/ugly/russian/
13:07 < RangerZ> "“There are two novels that can transform a bookish 14-year-kid’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish daydream that can lead to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood in which large chunks of the day are spent inventing ways to make real life more like a fantasy novel. The other is a book about orcs. "
13:07 <@klixa> ha
13:07 < RangerZ> ....adulthood in which large chunks of the day are spent inventing ways to make real life more like a fantasy novel. The other is a book about orcs.
13:07 < aestetix> RangerZ: have you read it?
13:07 < RangerZ> incase it got cut off
13:07 <@klixa> i read something by rand, i forget what
13:07 <@klixa> it involves potatoes and electricity
13:07 < RangerZ> same, but I read the cliff notes just incase a long time ago
13:08 <@klixa> anthem i think?
13:08 <@klixa> or the fountainhead? i dunno
13:08 <@klixa> it was super short
13:08 <@klixa> anthem
13:09 <@klixa> i dont like Rand because of her cult- like nature...i dont like people that start instututes and indoctirnate people
13:11 < RangerZ> its a stupid novel basis for her novel... that the railroad operator is 'prevented' from using "better" steel by the government ... the gov't does't set "upper-limits" of materials... just "lower-limits"
13:11 < RangerZ> my first use of novel = somewhat unique
13:11 <@klixa> i dont even remeber the novel
13:11 <@klixa> other than elctricity
13:11 <@klixa> and tunnels
13:12 <@klixa> my god, these people on tv are saying to eat 2 tablespoons of cocnut oil a day to ward off viruses...
13:13 <@klixa> thats like 300 calories and 20 g of sat fat or something
13:13 < RangerZ> dr oz?
13:13 < RangerZ> LOL
13:14 <@klixa> no, 700 club
13:14 <@klixa> lol
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13:14 < RangerZ> ohh fuck them even more... b/c they were anti-vax for a while
13:14 <@klixa> but hey, pat rovertson is like 100 years old, so he must be doing something right
13:15 <@klixa> i didnt know they wre anti vax...i know little about them
13:15 <@klixa> im undecided vaxx
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13:17 <@klixa> i have noticed a lot of what they say gets twisted tho; i saw him talking about how he didnt think euthanasia was a good thing...and the media twisted it into him mocking some woman who wanted to kill herslef
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13:21 < RangerZ> no, I've watched him to see what he says, b/c I used to have to with my grandmother
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13:21 < RangerZ> he does same some REALLY off the wall shit though, and them sometimes he says some pretty "christian not-batshit crazy" things like believing in evolution, but thinking that god drove it
13:22 < RangerZ> but that gays will die out b/c gays can't have kids...
13:22 < RangerZ> "because it takes 2 gays to have a gay child...." um... wait...
13:26 <@klixa> i dont believe in evolution
13:27 <@klixa> :P
13:27 < RangerZ> haha
13:27 <@klixa> well, id ont believe that everything in the universe just happened... i dont think humans are the result of years and years of accidents... i have no idea what happened or why anything exists, but i dont think it was chance
13:28 <@klixa> i think whatever the truth is , is beyond our understanding tho
13:28 <@klixa> `1i think we can understand *how* stuff happens...but not why it works that way
13:29 < RangerZ> thats the thing, it wasn't 'chance' it was the fact that the best suited to getting laid passed on more genes , and over 1000s of generations it just means the 'best' suited to survival passes on traits
13:29 <@klixa> like we can break apart prcesses and understand them a littlle more in depth, but thats kinda the limit of our understanding
13:29 < RangerZ> I agree, I'm an agnostic deist, which means 'why' is a pointless question
13:30 < RangerZ> but 'how' is pretty much known to scientists
13:31 <@klixa> well, to an extent anyway...they learn new stuff all the time
13:31 <@klixa> but yeah
13:32 < RangerZ> yeah, but refining the specifics just re-enforces the basic "theory" (gravity and "electrons" are also 'just' "Theories" too, lol)
13:32 <@klixa> RangerZ: by chance, i mean more so that these chemicals were able to come together at all and make anything at all
13:32 <@klixa> i know it happened in small steps, i get that
13:32 < RangerZ> klixa: they are proving that lightning strikes and nuetrino strikes in vacuums can produce amino acids/etc
13:33 <@klixa> but... theres just so many things that would have had to happen simultaneasouusly... like theres something inside a cell that cant exist without another thing...so it couldnt have evolved, and dawkins has talked about it (so its not the creationists only that realise there are holes and flaws in it)
13:33 < RangerZ> from those amino acids, proteins can be made... and we're off to the races
13:33 <@klixa> an ainio acid, and a self replicating system of DNA are very different tho
13:33 <@klixa> everything in the univ=erse is following laws and rules ...that order in itslef is beyond explanation
13:34 < RangerZ> klixa: mitocondria are _different living cells_ that exist inside all cells
13:34 < RangerZ> which is why mitocondria DNA is different than our DNA
13:34 < RangerZ> and how mother's mitocondrial DNA is the exact same as their children's
13:35 <@klixa> so we have 2 sets of dna? now you have lost me
13:35 <@klixa> i understand the physics/big bang side of all this much better
13:36 < RangerZ> mitochondrial dna is the DNA that exists 'in' mitochondria inside our cells, and 100% separate from _our_ DNA, and 'that' DNA doesn't reproduce the same way ours does, it just clones itself exactly every time, and when it messes up , that 'individual' cell dies
13:37 < aestetix> heh
13:37 < aestetix> I love it when junior devs try to school me on mysql
13:37 <@klixa> im reading about it on wikipedia RangerZ , and now i feel like i need to take a biology class or something
13:38 <@klixa> aestetix: how does someone like you have a job? :P
13:38 <@klixa> you are a horrible speaker, and you act like uyou are 12
13:38 < aestetix> I'm a bad speaker?
13:38 < aestetix> have you seen me speak?
13:38 <@klixa> in the 2 vids i saw, yes
13:38 < aestetix> what vids
13:38 < RangerZ> he treats this as a 'social media' and just trolls
13:39 <@klixa> phreaknic one, and then the one where you have a mouse on your shirt, some bay thing
13:39 < aestetix> which phreaknic one
13:39 <@klixa> one sec, i will link you
13:39 < aestetix> was it on names/identity?
13:39 <@klixa> yeah
13:39 <@klixa> its on youtube somehwere
13:39 < aestetix> why was it bad
13:39 <@Evilpig> because you're sexist and are pro-rape?
13:40 < aestetix> oh ok
13:40 <@Evilpig> and a white devil
13:40 <@klixa> yeah, what Evilpig said
13:40 <@Dagmar> The term is 'gwailo'. Use it with pride.
13:40 < aestetix> gwailo?
13:40 <@Dagmar> Yes, asian for 'white devil'.
13:41 <@Dagmar> I had to ask someone what it meant, and why being a 'white ghost' was a problem
13:41 < aestetix> klixa: my phreaknic talk was sexist?
13:41 <@Dagmar> The answer: "Well, they're typically expected to not know the culture and sully the women"
13:41 <@Dagmar> My response: "No, that sounds about right."
13:41 < RangerZ> aestetix: because the speaker(s) were only a male, so yes, it was sexist
13:41 < RangerZ> should have had a female up there too
13:42 <@klixa> aestetix: no. i think you are a bad speaker because you arent very focused, you ramble a little, and you seem like you just threw it together at the last minute
13:42 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: She could wear a shiny dress and point at things on the screen
13:42 < aestetix> klixa: you'd prefer I read off the slides?
13:42 < RangerZ> Dagmar: good point... make sure she has high heels too
13:42 < aestetix> klixa: you should watch the harvard talk I did
13:42 <@klixa> aestetix: i will if you link me
13:42 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iprHlKR6Eo
13:43 < aestetix> klixa: I wonder which talk that was
13:43 < aestetix> some talks I have done are like that, but that was years ago
13:44 < _NSAKEY> klixa: Was the aestetix phreaknic talk titled something like "military intelligence?"
13:44 < aestetix> oh god that one was .... I think I was drunk during that talk too
13:44 <@klixa> his hreaknic talk was about nyms
13:44 < _NSAKEY> Wait, Cracking Encrypted Intelligence.
13:44 <@klixa> every talk i have seen by him was a nym tlak
13:45 < aestetix> I'd like to think the nym talks were at least moderately well prepared.
13:45 < _NSAKEY> I downloaded everything from the PN youtube channel and just searched the folder. There's only this file:
13:45 < _NSAKEY> Cracking Encrypted Intelligence - Aestetix and Jonny Christmas-L-BqT-WZQio.mp4
13:45 <@klixa> you look like you shoudl be waring an anonoymous mask :P
13:45 < aestetix> yeah that's it. I was drunk or something during that one. Feel free to toss it away :p
13:46 <@klixa> aestetix: part of it, is you are a sloppy californian-ite
13:46 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: Are you a brony by any chance?
13:46 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: no.
13:46 <@klixa> even tho i have lived in cali a long time, i still expect people giving speeches to be in suits
13:46 <@klixa> and not use the word bullshit, like you just fdid
13:46 <@klixa> in the vi
13:46 <@klixa> d
13:46 < _NSAKEY> klixa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-BqT-WZQio
13:46 < _NSAKEY> That's the other talk.
13:46 <@Evilpig> if a suit is required for a speech I will never give one
13:47 <@klixa> lol
13:47 < aestetix> klixa: about the only person I will wear a suit for is the President
13:47 <@klixa> ive sen you in a suit
13:48 <@klixa> seen*
13:48 < aestetix> so you think my harvard talk sucks?
13:48 < _NSAKEY> At least you don't sound like you're 12.
13:48 < _NSAKEY> Even though that's how you act on IRC.
13:48 <@klixa> i paused it to watch the talk where you are drunk aestetix
13:49 <@klixa> hell, he does better drunk than sober
13:49 < aestetix> so you don't like the harvard talk
13:50 <@klixa> its an hour long, im only 3 min into it
13:51 < aestetix> the harvard one?
13:51 < aestetix> keep watching that one
13:52 <@klixa> i dont see why zappa allowed the nurses to not let him name his kid dweezil
13:52 <@Dagmar> Probably because he's bright enough to realize they don't actually control a damn thing
13:53 <@klixa> um
13:53 <@klixa> but he listened to them....unless you prefer his route of random names on the BC
13:53 <@Dagmar> Yet he managed to name one of them 'Dweezil' just fine
13:54 <@klixa> not legally tho, unless thats just not important to you, which i assume is the point you are making
13:54 <@klixa> but, i dont like the whole idea of giving up on the birth certificate name
13:55 < aestetix> klixa: so does my harvard talk suck?
13:56 <@klixa> its better than your other ones
13:56 < _NSAKEY> aestetix current status: utterly trolled
13:56 <@klixa> you dont seem like you just woke up and wnadered into a room to give a speech in this one
13:56 <@Dagmar> Just the same, a nurse can't do much other than say "Well, I guess it'll be filled out later.
13:56 <@Dagmar> The SS office tends to take the word of parents
13:57 <@klixa> Dagmar: well, he ended up not legally naming his kid dweezil...until dwezil was 6
13:57 < aestetix> Yeah it turns out I don't do speaking well when I'm drunk.
13:57 < aestetix> Or high.
13:57 <@klixa> and it was dwezil's idea...accordng to aestetix anyway
13:57 < aestetix> Or on acid.
13:58 <@klixa> i picked my kids name a few minutes before checking out of the hospital
13:58 * klixa was so unprepared
13:58 <@klixa> my bf kept calling her Igor tho, the whole time... and continued to until her black hair fell out and she became a blonde...she no longer looked like an igor at that point
14:00 < aestetix> I can't think about babies without thinking of stench and fluids
14:00 < aestetix> neither of which I'm keen on
14:00 <@klixa> babies actually smell good
14:01 <@klixa> they have a special baby smell
14:01 <@Dagmar> o.O
14:01 <@Dagmar> Yes... Everyone loves the smell of rancid milk and pop
14:01 <@Dagmar> er poop
14:01 <@klixa> no...babies emit a sweet smell
14:01 <@klixa> they do not smell like rancid milk or poop unless you neglect them
14:01 < aestetix> no they don't
14:01 < aestetix> also, drool
14:02 < aestetix> even if you wipe their ass every hour, they will drool all over the place
14:02 < aestetix> and probably barf
14:02 <@klixa> my baby never barfed
14:03 <@klixa> she spit up a few times tho
14:03 <@klixa> but rarely
14:03 < aestetix> ok I am feeling sick just thinking about babies
14:03 <@klixa> weirdo
14:04 < aestetix> do babies fart at all, or just poop?
14:04 <@klixa> yeah they do
14:05 <@Evilpig> 13:56 <+amandab> tess: it's because theres a kitty-time channel
14:05 <@Evilpig> 13:56 <+amandab> that's where the cats live
14:05 <@Evilpig> confirmed. tumblr is all about cats
14:05 < aestetix> so what is this sweet smell babies emit
14:06 <@klixa> aestetix: im not sure...here is an article about it https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/growth-curve/why-women-want-sniff-my-baby
14:07 < _NSAKEY> 16:42 in that video: aestetix can't math.
14:07 <@klixa> hahahah _NSAKEY
14:07 <@klixa> aestetix: you cant math
14:07 < _NSAKEY> 1937 wasn't "80 or 90 years ago or something."
14:07 <@klixa> i bet the gays love the hawaii dl
14:08 < _NSAKEY> That's almost a Beavis and Butthead sentence.
14:08 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: which video
14:08 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: The Harvard talk.
14:09 < aestetix> it was almost 80 years ago :p
14:09 < _NSAKEY> You plainly set the lower bound at 80 in the video. Therefore, you fail.
14:14 < RangerZ> leave him alone, he was a liberal arts major
14:14 < _NSAKEY> Stickers for people who ask questions?
14:14 < RangerZ> I'm just glad he wasn't off by a larger factor
14:14 < _NSAKEY> Did anyone bitchslap you for treating them like a kindergarten class?
14:16 < aestetix> they liked stickers
14:16 <@Evilpig> who doesn't like stickers?
14:16 <@Evilpig> I've got some i'm thinking about putting in our fridge before our next tour
14:17 < aestetix> klixa: so what are you speaking on at the next phreaknic?
14:17 <@Evilpig> "ribbed for her pleasure" and "for rectal use only"
14:17 < aestetix> Evilpig: sounds like the CIA
14:18 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: You didn't ask me, but I can answer that question as it applies to me with a picture: https://abigisp.com/images/hashcat-0x00.png
14:18 < aestetix> what is hashcat
14:18 < _NSAKEY> It's a password cracker.
14:19 < _NSAKEY> Mainly, the plan is to talk about the GPU-enabled versions.
14:19 < _NSAKEY> There are already some hashcat talks in the wild, but they're for cracking the last 20%.
14:20 < _NSAKEY> Unless somebody does it first, it will probably also be the first talk to ever have the slides made 100% with ANSI block art.
14:23 <@Dagmar> Damn
14:23 <@Dagmar> Nadia's _clearly_ not getting into town early enough to catch lunch at Wild Wasabi
14:23 <@Dagmar> On the good side of thing, the Wild Wasabi website is actually _really nice_
14:24 <@klixa> aestetix: i dont know...i will just get drunk and ramble about whatever pops into my mind...you set the bar really low, thanks :)
14:24 <@Dagmar> A Weebly site or not, there's no bullshit on it, and it's got all the information I wanted
14:24 <@Evilpig> I haven't seen their site
14:24 <@Dagmar> http://wildwasabi.weebly.com/
14:25 < RangerZ> This domain is blocked.
14:25 < RangerZ> lol
14:25 <@Evilpig> that's pretty craptastic but it has the info
14:26 < aestetix> klixa: maybe give a talk showing pictures of the consistency of your babies poop over time
14:27 <@Dagmar> Wow.
14:27 <@Dagmar> I now have a whole new and exciting way to look at vendiing machines
14:27 <@Evilpig> that sounds disgusting and I kinda wanna see that
14:29 <@Dagmar> I take it you've seen The Librarians this week
14:29 <@Evilpig> I have
14:29 <@klixa> aestetix: maybe it will inspire someone to invent a device that can detect the consistency before ever opening the diaper...kinda like caller ID, except diaper id
14:29 <@Dagmar> I just got to the part when John Larroquette is using the vending machine
14:30 <@Evilpig> heh
14:30 <@Evilpig> I just really like john larroquette around in that show
14:30 <@Dagmar> "...an occupant of your choice jumps to their death... and becomes your snack."
14:30 < aestetix> Evilpig: klixa's talk?
14:31 <@Evilpig> aestetix: yes
14:57 < RangerZ> aestetix: my friend just told me that she got jumped in SF by some chinese gangsters two nights ago
14:57 < RangerZ> I had to ask her if she was kidding or not... apparently not...
14:57 <@Dagmar> No they exist
14:57 <@Dagmar> They're most notable for basically starting shit that causes venues to have to shut down for hte night. :/
14:58 < RangerZ> i hate stupid pepole
14:58 < RangerZ> people*
14:59 <@Dagmar> Yeah well, I had to miss a show at 550 Barnevelt because of their antics
14:59 <@Dagmar> Although I did almost squish one of their doormen for being stupid
14:59 <@Dagmar> I was standing around outside making notes in my PDA, and this short stack decided "Hey! You can't do that here!" and actually tried to snatch it out of my hand. lol
14:59 < RangerZ> apparently a group of them got jumped at some club, and 3 had head injuries and one a cracked sturnum from a mean kick when he was on the ground
14:59 <@Dagmar> I _literally_ held it over my head and said "Excuse me, what?"
15:00 <@Dagmar> He then told me he was "confscating" it.
15:00 < RangerZ> i'm sure THAT went 'over (his head)' well
15:00 <@Dagmar> hahaha
15:00 <@Dagmar> I had easily two dozen witnesses
15:01 <@Dagmar> I actually dropped the "Hahahah. I don't think so." on him
15:01 <@Dagmar> "This is mine... as in 'not yours'." and I put it in my pocket, folded my arms so he couldn't even try to reach into my pocket and take it, and then asked him to explain precisely what I was supposed to be doing that I shoudln't.
15:02 <@Dagmar> Mind you, I was absolutely dressed in supervillain mode
15:02 <@Dagmar> He said he was going back inside to get help, and when he turned out, I giggled my way into a nearby cab
15:02 < aestetix> god
15:02 < aestetix> why does everyone want to be a fucking CEO
15:03 <@Dagmar> ...and I am enough of a dick to say "Later, asshole!" as we drove away
15:03 < RangerZ> aestetix: money + power
15:03 < RangerZ> + no legal responsability
15:03 < RangerZ> just ask AT&T
15:03 < RangerZ> lol
15:05 <@Dagmar> It's nearly perfect immunity to criminal prosecution, or prosecution for basically anything
15:05 <@Dagmar> aestetix: Remember how I've said that corporations being treated as a "person" allows members of the corporation to sidestep the blame for _their_ immoral acts onto the corporation?
15:06 <@Dagmar> Any amount of dickery someone wants to get up to as a CEO basically comes with a "get out of jail free" card
15:07 <@Dagmar> ...because they have lawyers, with a virtually unlimited budget, and they are acting on behalf of the "corporation" who essentially takes both the blame and any "punishment" for their actions.
15:07 <@Dagmar> I think this might be what the deal is with the interference in IDESG.
15:07 <@Dagmar> Some people with less moral fiber than us have _also_ figured this out
15:08 <@Dagmar> So long as they can keep people believing that identity is only "a person's name" folks will never see just how fucked up "corporate personhood" has become
15:09 <@Dagmar> Take Comcast for instance.
15:09 <@Dagmar> THey spend probably a magnitude of order more money and resources on bribes/lobbyists and working groups to twist public perception than they do on infrastructure upgrades
15:09 <@Dagmar> Their core business goal seems to be fucking people out of money
15:10 <@Dagmar> ...but no one holds the management/employees responsible, because they're just doing their jobs.
15:10 < RangerZ> the Koch brothers do the same thing, their company is a privately owned LLC (or another form of corp, but I think LLC)
15:10 < RangerZ> just that they are 'co-ceos'
15:10 <@Dagmar> It's always "Comcast are dicks" not "James Van Dickface the head of management is a dick"
15:10 < RangerZ> with the 'board' being .... them... and their family/friends
15:11 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: ...and the best part is if things get too bad, they can dissolve the LLC and form a new one
15:11 < RangerZ> yep
15:11 <@Dagmar> Do you know anyone who can pull a phoenix act like that?
15:11 <@Dagmar> Generally if you kill yourself, you're done.
15:11 < RangerZ> there was this one guy once...
15:11 < RangerZ> but he was a one trick pony
15:11 < RangerZ> ;)
15:11 <@Dagmar> If "you" are a corporate person, you're a disposable blame magnet
15:11 <@Dagmar> All the financial failures and failed promises, magically wiped away along with the LLC.
15:12 < RangerZ> ohh it gets even funnier
15:12 < RangerZ> the LLC can 'split off' the part of the company with contracts (pensions, etc) and then desolve THAT part
15:12 < RangerZ> its what GM and Delphi did
15:12 <@Dagmar> Just think of large corporations as master vampires and they're much easier to deal with
15:12 <@Dagmar> Amoral, undying, able to become smoke at will.
15:13 <@Dagmar> I'm just waiting for hte next copyright push to change things so that copyright will be extended from the date of the contract with the artist
15:13 < RangerZ> "ohh all those millions of dollars in debt... I'll just saddle it with property or some other goods that 'look valuable' on paper... so that the balance sheet 'looks good' when I do this"...
15:13 <@Dagmar> ...because once again, there's a bunch of stuff that'll wind up going into the public domain again within this decade
15:14 < RangerZ> then 3mo later... "ohh look THIS NEW LLC... is going to file ch 7"
15:14 < RangerZ> its why unreleased content from the beatles got "released" last two years
15:14 <@Dagmar> Yep.
15:14 < RangerZ> b/c otherwise it would have gone into public domain
15:15 <@Dagmar> Well, it woudlnt' have gone into the public domain
15:15 <@Dagmar> It was never published to begin with
15:15 < RangerZ> yeah, apparently it would have
15:15 < RangerZ> some weird clause
15:15 <@Dagmar> As far as I know the rights would have been subject to legal interpretation of ownership of the actual recording media at that point
15:16 <@Dagmar> ...but I intend to be ready and waiting for that next push, to remind everyone that copyright is a _deal_ between the public, and artists.
15:16 < RangerZ> hmm, maybe... I didn't quite understand the explanation when I saw it said, but my understanding was that 'because these existed AND WERE KNOWN to exist' that the labels HAD to release it or lose it (but perhaps to 'family "owners" ')
15:17 <@Dagmar> It's a limited time deal, and frankly, when one party has no intention of ever holding up their end (i.e., letting the copyright go) then like any "deal" where one party refuses to adhere to it, it's null.
15:17 <@Dagmar> Society respects copyright _in exchange_ for the artwork becoming part of the Public Domain at the end of the protection period.
15:18 < aestetix> Which seems to be life of steamboat willie plus 70 years
15:19 <@Dagmar> I am willing to respect the right for an artist/producer to exploit their work for profit
15:19 <@Dagmar> aestetix: It'll be extended again
15:19 <@Dagmar> ...or at least, they will try.
15:19 <@Dagmar> However, I will not respect the copyright claims of someone or some thing who has no intention of ever adhereing to _their_ end of the that deal.
15:20 <@Dagmar> DRM systems which are time-restricted by technical measure and fiat are an explicit rejection of the obligation of the work to enter the public domain.;
15:20 <@Dagmar> Fuck them, immediately.
15:22 <@Dagmar> I would never torrent anything if the media I was trying to watch weren't unavailable because of some fucktarded measure of similar form, like HDCP bullshit
15:22 < RangerZ> I'm a firm believer that ALL copyright should be 14 years again
15:22 <@Dagmar> I dunno about 14. 50 maybe
15:23 < RangerZ> if you can't make a profit after 14 years... then GTFO of the way
15:23 < RangerZ> maybe 20
15:23 < RangerZ> to make it like patents
15:23 <@Dagmar> ...or perhaps 14 years after the artists death, or 50 years from publication if the artist is still alive
15:23 < RangerZ> but not 75 years after the death of the author like it is now
15:23 <@Dagmar> We need to shorten patents because their lifespan is _wildly_ longer than the utililty of any modern invention
15:24 < RangerZ> gotta get away from the idea of the author making ALL their money from the 'work' alone
15:24 <@Dagmar> ...and the old patents are perpetually abused.
15:24 < RangerZ> and go back to the 'make money from this work for a while' and PAID to make new works.... Model
15:24 < RangerZ> paytreon(sp?) and kickstarter are actually doing this
15:24 < RangerZ> 'somewhat'
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15:25 <@Dagmar> Heck, 75 years after the author's death makes it their lifespan, and the lifespan of their next generation
15:25 < RangerZ> and next and next
15:25 < RangerZ> lol
15:25 <@Dagmar> I can't wait to see the lame arguments they'll put forth about works for hire
15:26 <@Dagmar> ...because they'll be arguing that since the art was the result of a work-for-hire agreement, that the rightsholding corporation is actually the artist
15:26 <@Dagmar> ...who is an undying master vampire.
15:26 <@Dagmar> Count on it.
15:26 < _NSAKEY> The whole "You made it, therefore it's auto-copyrighted" thing is also a buzzkill.
15:26 <@Dagmar> No, that's actually useful
15:27 < _NSAKEY> There are movies from the 50s and 60s that are public domain because the studios screwed up and forgot to include one.
15:27 <@Dagmar> Otherwise you have to race to the copyright office with every little cocktail napkin sketch
15:27 <@Dagmar> There's a few Jackie Chan movies that fell out of copyright because of that sort of thing
15:27 <@Dagmar> I've got one here.
15:28 <@Dagmar> It's on some really shit media that it seems only about 2/3 of mass-market DVD players can read
15:28 <@Dagmar> It makes optical drives _angry_
15:28 <@Dagmar> I'd never seen anything like it
15:28 < _NSAKEY> Do you remember the movie title?
15:28 <@Dagmar> Lemme go look at it
15:29 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: The original of "14 years + 1 renewal of 14 years" sounds good, if a bit short.
15:29 < _NSAKEY> Maybe make copyright periods a bit longer than that, and put a hard cap on the renewal.
15:30 <@Dagmar> Drat
15:31 <@Dagmar> OKay... I *think* it's "The Young Tiger"
15:31 <@Dagmar> I had two somewhat sketch Jackie Chan DVDs and I can't find the other one
15:31 <@Dagmar> What it amounts to is that China's copyright laws (at the time) were completely not in sync with the US's
15:32 <@Dagmar> ...and China's were pretty insane
15:32 < RangerZ> _NSAKEY: we have 15+15 or 20+20 on patents now
15:32 <@Dagmar> It was not published in the US.
15:32 < RangerZ> not sure which exact #, but they cleaned it up a lot back a while ago
15:32 <@Dagmar> I got it at Kroger's for $1.50
15:33 <@Dagmar> ...and it _claims_ a copyright date of 2004, but that's completely not how that works.
15:33 <@Dagmar> Companies just loooove to stick the current year on everything as their copyright statement
15:34 <@Dagmar> However, it's well-established that copying a VHS tape to DVD is not a transformative work
15:34 <@Dagmar> ...nor is copying 35mm film
15:34 <@Dagmar> This thing was made in 1973
15:35 <@Dagmar> China only had a 25-year restriction then
15:35 <@Dagmar> Drunken Master was on the second one, and it was a two-movie disc
15:35 <@Dagmar> Now _there_ is an awesome film
15:36 <@Dagmar> I'll merrily pick up another copy of that if I see it somewhere
15:36 <@Dagmar> It's in the same boat as Young Tiger ("Small Tiger") but new agreements were drafted in 2002 that I consider highly questionable
15:37 <@Dagmar> ...because basically the only thing they've got a claim on is the dubbing
15:38 < _NSAKEY> Apparently the new rules are author's life + 50 years, except with film or pictures.
15:38 < _NSAKEY> Then it's 50 years.
15:38 < _NSAKEY> (This is for China, according to Wikipedia.)
15:39 <@Dagmar> That applies to things made _now_
15:39 < _NSAKEY> Yeah, I'm trying to find the old rules.
15:39 <@Dagmar> Since 2000 there's been a whole lot of manouevering
15:39 <@Dagmar> Companies trying to find ways to milk whatever cash cows they can buy up
15:40 <@Dagmar> As far as Im' concerned, 50 years from the publishing date is plenty
15:41 <@Dagmar> I'd think most people would be rather happy to see their stuff go public 50 years after they made it
15:41 < _NSAKEY> They didn't start signing international treaties/conventions about copyright until the 80s.
15:42 <@Dagmar> 'cuz like, if you're say, a particularly crusty old rocker with a reputation based on "cannoy be killed by conventional weapons", you'd have a whole crop of new fans popping up when your're in your 70's
15:43 <@Dagmar> Trying to find music that is out of copyright nowadays basically means listening to recordings of people banging sticks together around a fire
15:44 < _NSAKEY> Yeah, because good recordings of even classical music just didn't exist in the days that precede the creation of steamboat willie.
15:59 <@Evilpig> pretty sure I can find copywritten music of people banging stick together around a fire
15:59 <@Evilpig> It might even be called "sounds of burning man"
16:00 <@Evilpig> i'd package it with a scratch and sniff cover so you can get the stink of burning man to go along with the sounds
16:05 < aestetix> FUCK YES
16:05 < aestetix> https://archive.org/details/msdos_Hugos_House_of_Horrors_1990
16:12 <@Evilpig> I just got another recruiting email from robert half asking for an update on my career and if I was looking to change. I sent them this as my response. nothing else. https://www.dropbox.com/s/cvs15xzd7jpniet/2014-12-16%2014.32.55.jpg?dl=0
16:14 < aestetix> Well you do happen to work at the one branch of Yahoo that is semi-worthwhile ;)
16:14 < aestetix> One of the largest producers of porn and drama blogs on the web
16:14 <@Evilpig> mmmm porn
16:14 * Evilpig drinks in emo teen tears
16:30 < RangerZ> how is that any different than your other jobs?
16:30 < RangerZ> I think I see a pattern here...
16:43 <@Evilpig> is it i like to make children cry?
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16:44 <@shapr> SHAZAM
16:44 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o aestetix] by shapr
16:45 <@shapr> aestetix: vaina
16:49 <@aestetix> penis
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17:33 <@aestetix> rattle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdsJulQdUcg
17:33 <@aestetix> would love to hear your thoughts
18:20 <@Evilpig> coworker coming back from vacation tomorrow. I set him up a welcome back party. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1hfaag2hwn06q2r/2015-01-05%2017.36.14.jpg?dl=0
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18:22 -!- aestetix was kicked from #se2600 by Bahhumbug [ Bahhumbug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAFKnfN4bfk enjoy]
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18:25 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: wtf
18:25 < aestetix> anyways
18:26 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: not a fan of Ayn Rand?
18:27 < aestetix> you know what I fucking hate
18:27 < aestetix> systems that claim they can "autoscale"
18:27 < aestetix> autoscaling services works about as well as self-driving cars
18:27 < aestetix> handy until you run into an error
18:28 <@Bahhumbug> Design better systems.
18:28 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: like a database that automatically indexes itself?
18:33 <@Bahhumbug> Properly designed systems, assuming proper backing resources being available, should be fully able to handle load / scale issues.
18:34 <@Bahhumbug> Trivial? No. Doable? Yep.
18:35 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: there's a difference between that and the "throw a bunch of things into an autoscaling system and assume it won't break"
18:36 <@Bahhumbug> Properly designed systems don't assume.
18:36 < aestetix> I mean like the people who use elastic databases and then wonder why it's slow
18:36 < aestetix> because they haven't tuned it for shit
18:41 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: are you always grumpy?
18:44 <@Bahhumbug> No.
18:45 < aestetix> What makes you smile?
18:45 <@Bahhumbug> Kittens
18:47 < aestetix> Do you ever kill kittens?
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18:49 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: Today just hasn't been your day.
18:49 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: I think it's that time of the month.
18:50 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: Perhaps you should add some stool softeners to your diet, to give your rectum a chance to recover once the abuse stops.
18:51 <@Bahhumbug> I hear lye is a good softener.
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19:31 < aestetix> oh jesus
19:31 < aestetix> shanley is at it again
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21:34 < RangerZ1> http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/01/05/ghost-in-the-shell-signs-scarlett-johansson-as-lead-2560744
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21:39 <@Evilpig> haha never seen that happen before
21:39 <@Evilpig> just saw a goblin run the fuck away
21:39 <@Evilpig> he was all decked out in iron and ran
21:41 <@Dickie> PCP does stuff to your brain, man
21:54 < RangerZ1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TZlpOhuMcI [GOP Wages War To Ruin The Internet Forever] :/
21:55 < RangerZ1> I wish... MSNBC would fucking man up and report on this... ohh wait... they are owned by comcast...
21:55 < RangerZ1> fucking media de-regulation is harming is in tangible ways :/
22:13 < RangerZ1> ok /. right now [Nest Will Now Work With Your Door Locks, Light Bulbs and More] ... not MY door locks, light bulbs and More ...
22:19 < _NSAKEY> Haha. Sounds like lock picking is going to finally quit being analog.
22:19 < _NSAKEY> Which is sad, really.
22:24 < RangerZ1> yeah... I don't think its going to go anywhere
22:24 < RangerZ1> 'light bulbs' maybe
22:24 < RangerZ1> ovens that you can 'turn off' maybe
22:25 < RangerZ1> door locks... I'm hoping everyone looks at that and tilts their head...
22:25 < RangerZ1> lol
22:30 < _NSAKEY> Personally, I don't want some kid in China turning my oven on high while I'm asleep.
22:31 <@Evilpig> hrmm. I kinda do
22:32 <@Evilpig> oh wait you said in china. nm. I was looking for a chinese kitchen sl^H^Hhelper
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23:33 < RangerZ> Dagmar: so Wed Low of 5 degrees F now expected
23:34 < RangerZ> I really shouldn't be taking as much amusement in this as I am, but people acting like the world is going to end, hehe
23:34 <@klixa> nashvillians are idiots like that
23:35 <@klixa> i worked at the bell meade kroger when i was 16, and... *anytime* they talked about how it MIGHT snow, the store would be super busy and people would be buying bread, milk, etc
23:36 <@klixa> im about to drive through the rockies in a day...
23:37 <@klixa> hmm, or maybe im not since its closed... im glad you were tlaking about this RangerZ before i left... i may have to take a different route
23:37 < RangerZ> LOL
23:38 < RangerZ> well thats good
23:38 < RangerZ> where you going kansas city?
23:39 <@klixa> yeah
23:39 < RangerZ> good luck
23:39 <@klixa> im too poor to live in cali :/
23:39 <@klixa> well, i can live out here, but id like to be able to have money lefy over after paying rent
23:40 < RangerZ> whats that?
23:40 < RangerZ> ohh ...when you aren't a poor grad student...
23:40 < RangerZ> lol
23:40 <@klixa> theres an edn in sight for you tho, hehe
23:40 <@klixa> end*
23:40 < RangerZ> god... I hope so...
23:50 < RangerZ> still year(s)* away
--- Log closed Tue Jan 06 00:00:19 2015