--- Log opened Sun Dec 28 00:00:20 2014
--- Day changed Sun Dec 28 2014
00:00 < aestetix> anyone else playing the talos principle?
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00:32 <@oddball> Wow... so... channel 2 news ran a story stating that 3 youths got into a fight at the Opry Mills Mall tonight.  Fox 17 reports the same incident was a fight involving "up to 150 people."
00:33 <@Dagmar> lol
00:33 <@Dagmar> I actually saw the video from someone's phone earlier
00:33 <@oddball> Oh?
00:33 <@Dagmar> There *might* have been 150 people standing around, but it was just three people in the altercation and it looked like one of them was doing more of trying to stop it than anything else
00:33 <@Dagmar> ...and there were maybe 15 people standing around when it started.
00:34 <@Dagmar> 150 is a number that is pure fiction.
00:34 <@oddball> ah... gotcha
00:34 <@Dagmar> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkLXlQHUkdc
00:36 <@Dagmar> Oh wait... That couldn't have been tonight
00:36 <@Dagmar> The rednecks may *have* erupted into chaos
00:36 <@oddball> Yeah... that was tagged as being posted in 2012.
00:37 <@Dagmar> Now I'm curious as to how a hundred people managed to get into one fight
00:37 <@Dagmar> THat's some Octagon House level shit
00:37 <@oddball> Well, according to channel 2, the two minors that were arrested had outstanding warrants out on them.
00:38 <@oddball> I'm also highly questioning that that would happen without the local news folks creaming their pants and shouting about it to the heavens.
00:38 <@klixa> aestetix: sup neighbor :p
00:39 <@Dagmar> http://www.wsmv.com/story/27716275/fight-breaks-out-in-opry-mills-mall-food-court
00:39 <@Dagmar> http://www.jrn.com/newschannel5/news/Large-Fight-Erupts-At-Opry-Mills-Mall-286944951.html
00:40 <@Dagmar> Sounds like maybe the other 147 were just onlooker idiots
00:40 < aestetix> klixa: you're back?
00:40 <@klixa>  I've been in Oakland since last week
00:40 < aestetix> wow
00:40 <@klixa> I'm house/dog sitting for someone
00:40 < aestetix> how long you here
00:40 < aestetix> and where
00:41 < aestetix> actually just twiter your adddress
00:41 <@klixa> :p
00:41 <@klixa> I'm here until the 1st then either moving to Mendocino county or humboldt
00:41 < aestetix> west oak? east oak?
00:41 <@klixa> I have no idea, it's off high street
00:42 <@klixa> the ghetto part
00:42 <@klixa> lol
00:42 < aestetix> so east oak
00:42 <@Dagmar> heheh
00:42 < aestetix> are you anywhere near downtown?
00:42 < aestetix> or near bart
00:42 < aestetix> if you say ghetto probably not
00:42 <@klixa> aestetix: no clue... I know how to hop on 580 and get to berkeley
00:42 <@Dagmar> Better question: Do you have an escape route planned?
00:43 <@klixa> ^^ lol
00:43 < aestetix> klixa: you should come out for the next protest
00:43 <@Dagmar> I'm just skipping ahead a bit is all
00:43 < aestetix> you can take your anger out on local business windows
00:43 <@Dagmar> Uh let's not do that
00:43 <@Dagmar> Someone will think you're a cop
00:43 <@klixa> haha
00:43 < aestetix> Dagmar: most of downtown windows are covered in plywood now anyways
00:44 <@Bahhumbug> Ghetto
00:44 < aestetix> to protect from rocks and spray pain
00:44 <@klixa> the exit past fruitvale heading away from berkeley is what I'm near
00:44 < aestetix> oh boy
00:45 < aestetix> yeah see the fruitvale bart stop is where the oakland police shot/killed oscar gran
00:45 < aestetix> grant
00:45 <@klixa> my friends rent is $600 that's how ghetto it is here
00:45 <@Dagmar> Now we get to the part where my question was supposed to happen
00:46 <@klixa> aestetix: I have the movie
00:46 < aestetix> klixa: the question in your area is not how much is rent, but how much is insurance
00:46 <@klixa> haven't watched it tho but I k ow about the incident
00:46 <@Dagmar> Probably the most prominent execution in recent history
00:47 < aestetix> Dagmar: except for the ferguson and nyc ones
00:47 <@Dagmar> I don't think they had as many on-site witnesses
00:47 <@klixa> I dunno how they live here; my bf is all "I'd rather be homeless in the van in Berkeley"
00:47 <@klixa> but we agreed to watch their dog so we're stuck
00:50 < aestetix> klixa: what if you accidentally let their dog out
00:50 < aestetix> and the neighbor shoots it
00:50 < aestetix> or if it's a black dog, the oakland police shoot it
00:50 <@Dagmar> That's _why_ they're watching the dog.
00:51 <@klixa> lol
00:52 < aestetix> klixa: have you played "guns or fireworks?" yet?
00:52 < RangerZ> klixa: why did you agree to enter oakland ?
00:54 < RangerZ> didn't you realize you only visit oakland on expeditions for a few hours a day, sorta like a safari of looking at people who can't afford to live in S.F.
00:54 < RangerZ> lol
00:55 <@klixa> hehe
00:55 <@klixa> I wanted a bathroom and shower
00:55 <@klixa> :/
00:55 <@Dagmar> That's harsh, man
00:55 <@Bahhumbug> Harsh, but true.
00:56 < aestetix> RangerZ: nobody can afford to live in SF
00:56 < RangerZ> billionaires
00:56 <@klixa> aestetix: the people I'm housesitting for her grandmother has a nice rent controlled apt in SF
00:56 < RangerZ> klixa: ...for now...
00:56 <@Bahhumbug> 837,442 as of 2013.  Seems almost a million people can afford it.
00:56 <@klixa> when she retired soon and moves to Atascadero they get the apt
00:56 <@klixa> retires*
00:57 < RangerZ> until the landlord decides to sell the entire building... and the rent control goes away (what they have been doing in SF)
00:57 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: it's called VC money
00:57 < aestetix> RangerZ: yes, ellis act
00:57 <@klixa> Silicon Valley people have taken over SF
00:58 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: basically some kids get funding for their app, move into SF, pay outragerous rates, and then their money dries up
00:58 <@klixa> they renovate slum Sro and make them Google housing etc
00:58 <@Dagmar> Oh I'm pretty sure it's still mainly SF people owning everything in SF.
00:58 <@Bahhumbug> That doesn't in any way account for 837k people.
00:58 <@Dagmar> If Silicon Valley people actually ran it they wouldn't have let rent go up that high
00:58 <@klixa> Bahhumbug: SF has ghettos too
00:58 < aestetix> It's worth noting that the areas in question are only SOMA, the Mission, and basically east san francisco
00:58 <@klixa> there's plenty of weekly 200$ motels in SF
00:59 < aestetix> The richmond and sunset are relatively unaffected
00:59 < aestetix> the issue is moving around from there
00:59 <@Bahhumbug> Shortly the Big quake will fix these problems once and for all.
00:59 <@klixa> soma?
00:59 <@Dagmar> South Of Market Avenue
00:59 <@klixa> ah
00:59 <@Dagmar> No, it's not even a little bit self-explanatory
01:00 <@Dagmar> ...but largely it's where a lot of the really eclectics live
01:00 < aestetix> Dagmar: not anymore
01:00 < aestetix> they are all getting priced out
01:00 < aestetix> Seriously, there is now a fucking middle school on Folsom st
01:01 <@klixa> I don't know enough about SF
01:01 <@Dagmar> Kids gotta go to school somewhere
01:02 < aestetix> Folsom St is traditionally where the gay bondage freaks hang out
01:03 < RangerZ> gay bondage freak middle school kids gotta go to school somewhere
01:03 <@Dagmar> I would have said Harrison
01:04 <@Dagmar> I used to meet my "regular guy" around there and 16th IIRC
01:04 < aestetix> you have a regular gay bondage guy?
01:04 <@Dagmar> No, I had a regular weed dealer
01:04 <@Dagmar> Someone I could get some from without his availability or stock being essentially random
01:05 < aestetix> wow
01:05 < aestetix> that's hard to find
01:05 <@Dagmar> Also, a couple of smartasses in the car going "Look Dag!  It's your people!"
01:05 < RangerZ> i'm surprised Dagmar hasn't moved to denver at this point
01:07 <@Dagmar> I just don't like weed that much
01:07 <@Dagmar> Remember I spent the last couple months there staying with someone who smoked _all the time_
01:07 <@Dagmar> It was almost a month before the contrast buzz of _being sober_ started to wear off
01:07 <@Bahhumbug> You should all be thankful for weed.  Without it I would have gone on a multi-state killing spree by now.
01:08 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: I didn't know you did drugs.
01:09 <@Bahhumbug> You should pay more attention; it's not as if I've ever hid it.
01:09 < RangerZ> its why he hasn't flown to oakland and smacked you yet
01:09 <@Bahhumbug> I don't fly.
01:11 <@Dagmar> Airports are full of police.
01:11 <@Dagmar> You're nine times more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist
01:12 < aestetix> Dagmar: especially given that terrorists don't care if you're black.
01:14 < RangerZ> aestetix: poor can't fly
01:14 < RangerZ> its more of a poor + powerless than anything else... just that there is TOO MUCH crossover on that venn diagram
01:15 <@Dagmar> Part of that is because one is the leading cause of the other
01:15 < aestetix> http://streaming.media.ccc.de/relive/6154/
01:15 <@Dagmar> ...since lawyers cost money and without lawyers you're basically at the whim of people who have laqyers
01:17 <@Bahhumbug> Or... don't do something you'll need a lawyer for.  Worked for me for many, many years.
01:18 <@Dagmar> That basically rules out anything of significance
01:19 < RangerZ> you need a lawyer to setup a trust fund
01:19 < RangerZ> or a corp
01:19 < RangerZ> (or bylaws of a non-profit....lol)
01:20 <@Bahhumbug> I have no need for setting up a trust fund; you do not _need_ a lawyer to incorporate (although it would be well advised).
01:20 <@Bahhumbug> But be that as it may, I have a business lawyer.  I was talking more in terms of criminal defense lawyers.
01:21 <@Bahhumbug> Sigh.  As much as I absolutely love Jira and Confluence the initial setups are... daunting.
01:22 < RangerZ> yeah
01:25 < RangerZ> I like pivotal tracker... but I find it really best for UI/user facing stuff, not really for devs
01:33 <@Dagmar> Bahhumbug: I would have thought you'd see that if you _invent_ something or attempt to sell something you will almost certainly need a lawyer at some point
01:34 <@Dagmar> Hell in some cases selling something as simple as leftover screen protectors on eBay might require a lawyer
01:34 <@Dagmar> For a number of years there was an RHO sending nastygrams to everyone doing that, becuase they'd contracted with a guy who had a patent on a screen cover for _electronic fish finders_
01:35 <@Dagmar> A very specific use that had fuck all to do with phones tablets or even touch screens
01:43 -!- InfoSecDog [~user@c-50-155-6-109.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit []
01:55  * aestetix hugs Bahhumbug 
03:07 -!- klixa [uid861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azckhdqctjcylrvi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
03:37 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: wanna talk about butt play?
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10:22 < RangerZ> so... that was a proportional response I'd say, but... anyways...
10:22 < RangerZ> a final fantasy game with : [ESRB Rating: MATURE 17+ with Blood, Drug Reference, Suggestive Themes, and Violence.]
10:23 < RangerZ> Type 0 HD is starting to look pretty interesting
11:17 <@oddball> I can make the argument that a lot of them have those "themes," but 17+ damn
11:23 <@oddball> wow... this was the department's PR guy who said this while talking to the press on duty: http://www.kmov.com/special-coverage-001/Ferguson-PIO-placed-on-unpaid-leave-after-referring-to-Mike-Brown-memorial-Trash-286940821.html
11:47 < RangerZ> yeah... fuck that guy
11:48 < RangerZ> jesus... you don't have to be a fucking saint to understand that you don't insult... funeral services/memorials/etc
11:49 <@oddball> I fully expected to see that it was some random beat cop... not the fucking PR guy.
11:49 < RangerZ> fucking [Public Information Officer]
11:49 < RangerZ> either way... thats shitty
11:51 <@oddball> The guy who's job it is to be the public face of the department.
11:53 < RangerZ> so I didn't know this but in 94 the NYPD shut down brooklyn bridge basically rioting when guilianni wanted to install a civilian oversight committee, that would investigate police abuse/use of force
11:53 < RangerZ> they threatened to 'turn their backs on the mayor, whenever they saw him' (sound familiar?)
11:53 <@oddball> huh.
11:54 <@oddball> And the fact that they spent years under a mayor (Bloomberg) that publicly refered to the NYPD as "his army."
11:55 <@oddball> that didn't help
11:55 < RangerZ> I think the police in these cities (not all obviously, but a lot) need to have that civilian oversight
11:55 < RangerZ> but all should have that oversight
11:55 < RangerZ> and outsider investigations of use of force/abuse
11:55 <@oddball> Also something that needs to be done: stop having the cops refer to themselves as something other than "civilians."
11:57 < RangerZ> the problem is that no one I know would even THINK about joining the police force now a days
11:57 < RangerZ> they aren't looking to 'bust heads'
11:57 < RangerZ> etc
11:57 <@oddball> The execution of the 2 cops in NYC is one of those situation where I can't saying anything but "yes, it's tragic, no, it shouldn't have happened, but you've been acting as an occupying force for a long time."
11:58 < RangerZ> nah it isn't even that fucking complicated
11:58 < RangerZ> that guy was mental
11:58 <@oddball> Well, yes.  There's that as well.
11:58 < RangerZ> he just wanted suicide by police, then turned the gun on himself b/c he probably chickened out
11:59 < RangerZ> that wasn't an 'assassination', it was a 'walk-by shooting' of the cop car... an assassination would have required the asshat to 'know'(let alone care) which cop he killed
12:01 < RangerZ> the guy who tied his daughter's rapist to the dining room chair, then used red hot iron tools to cut his dick off.... then went to the police and confesssed... now THAT was personal
12:01 < RangerZ> this fucker... just random cop car, etc
12:01 <@oddball> Sad thing is that I can't help but think "if only cops had the accuracy this guy had."
12:01 < RangerZ> you seen the shit in cleveland?
12:02 <@oddball> Don't think so
12:02 < RangerZ> the video of them killing the 12 y/o is fucking sick
12:02 <@oddball> Oh... shit.
12:02 <@oddball> Don't wanna watch that shit.
12:02 < RangerZ> they drove up NEXT TO HIM, in an EMPTY PARK , and then the kid was dead in under 2 seconds
12:02 < RangerZ> because they said "we were in danger"
12:02 < RangerZ> mother fuckers... you basically RAN HIM OVER... why the fuck were you that close
12:03 < RangerZ> and this is after the police report said "we told him to put the gun down 3 times, and he ignored us, then he went for the gun"
12:03 <@oddball> Is this the case where they said the kid drew a toy gun on them?
12:03 < RangerZ> yeah
12:04 < RangerZ> it was a pellet gun, and he was shooting pop cans with it at the park
12:04 < RangerZ> but the the thing is the police report said he was 'with a crowd' (lies), that they told him to put the gun down 3x (lies)
12:04 < RangerZ> etc
12:05 < RangerZ> the VIDEO from some random camera in the park shows he was alone
12:05 < RangerZ> and the cop car enters the picture and < 2 seconds later the kid falls to the ground
12:05 <@oddball> interesting.
12:06 < RangerZ> DOJ just finished an investigation too into clev. police and found they ... pretty much suck
12:06 < RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z8qNUWekWE#t=14
12:07 < RangerZ> ohh... and they claimed he looked to be 20 years old
12:07 < RangerZ> and the call to the police said that it was a kid with a toy gun
12:07  * oddball watches the video
12:08 <@oddball> The fuck?!
12:08 < RangerZ> yeah... its that fucking bad
12:09 < RangerZ> I have NO defense for wha they did there... they should NOT have pulled that close to person they thought had a gun, even if it was 'most likely a toy'
12:09 < RangerZ> just bullshit
12:09 <@oddball> yeah...
12:10 <@oddball> Oh... And I love how the NYPD has actually stated that they're now "in a war posture."
12:10 < RangerZ> good
12:10 < RangerZ> fuck them too
12:10 < RangerZ> (mainly b/c I'm not going to NYC)
12:10 < RangerZ> lol
12:10 < RangerZ> but... I hope they keep on saying stupid shit like that
12:11 <@oddball> Proper response to that should be "ok.  Turn in all your guns and vests."
12:11 < RangerZ> nah, let them keep the vests
12:11 <@oddball> "you'll get them back when you can play well with others."
12:11 < RangerZ> lol
12:12 < RangerZ> repaint stuff NYMil
12:14 <@oddball> Nope.  Cops have advocated to make it illegal for you and me to own vests.  Fuck 'em.
12:14 <@oddball> I'm also a big proponant of not allowing cops to possess anything that you and I can't legally possess.
12:15 <@Evilpig> like meth!
12:15 <@oddball> For example.
12:15 < RangerZ> nah, I'm not going to lump ALL cops together like that, but I get your point
12:16 < RangerZ> so Evilpig, you coming to jan or feb's nashville2600?
12:16 < RangerZ> and then june or july
12:16 <@Evilpig> considered it
12:16 < RangerZ> lol
12:16 <@oddball> New machine guns?  Nope.  Fuck you.  NYPD should only be allowed to carry 7 rounds in their pistols. etc.
12:17 <@oddball> Something specific about those meetings?
12:17 < RangerZ> not those 2 in particular, but spaced out
12:17 <@oddball> ah
12:17 < RangerZ> and meets the 2 meeting threshold
12:17 <@oddball> yep
12:17 <@Evilpig> I'll be flying down in march for geeknic for sure
12:18 <@Evilpig> heh.  attend two meetings eh?  technically I still fit member criteria due to my license
12:19 < RangerZ> oddball: the cop who shot the kid... was fired from a cleveland suburb where his chief there said he was "beyond hope of training" to be an effective cop
12:19 < RangerZ> http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/08/opinion/cevallos-justice-department-cleveland-police/
12:19 < RangerZ> and like _that_ week the DOJ let out a 2 year investigation's report
12:21 < RangerZ> "This is a minor detail, but a potentially divisive one. The DOJ observed a sign hanging in a district station identifying it as a "forward operating base,"
12:21 <@oddball> calssy
12:22 <@oddball> classy
12:22 <@oddball> RangerZ: Doesn't surprise me.
12:23 <@oddball> Evilpig: I don't believe there's a residency requirement.  There was an attempt to insert one, but I think it was shot down.
12:23 < RangerZ> makes "Id10T errors" and other 'inside jokes' that we use seem like we should get nobel peace prize
12:23 < RangerZ> oddball: that is correct
12:23 < RangerZ> I specifically looked for/asked about that last jan
12:23 <@Evilpig> oddball: there is one
12:23 <@Evilpig> you have to be in the local area and west ky
12:23 <@oddball> And I remember actually making the statement "if the person makes it to the meetings, who give a shit where they live?"
12:24 < RangerZ> really?
12:24 <@Evilpig> yup
12:24 <@Evilpig> I know of that because the west ky thing was put in for me way back when
12:24 < RangerZ> you know what... who knows... because they passed around so many versions at different times
12:24 <@oddball> heh
12:24 < RangerZ> I swear I thought I was looking at the 'old' version, but who knows..
12:25 <@oddball> Ok, so they were wanting to further constrict that to only central TN.
12:25 < RangerZ> b/c bowling green ky isn't only 30min from here?
12:25 < RangerZ> (well where I live)
12:25 < RangerZ> lol
12:26 <@oddball> Hence my "fuck it, if they make the meetings, I don't care if they're from Florida" stance.
12:27 < RangerZ> also... I'm starting to think that JJ's isn't the 'best' place for meetings
12:27 < RangerZ> b/c we can't talk about anything 'hacker~ish' there without getting odd looks, etc, lol
12:27 <@oddball> Well, we're going to get that at pretty much any public place.
12:28 < RangerZ> I mean... threatening to hack space satelites and carve our names into the EARTH if any government was stupid enough to put those weaons in space...
12:28 < RangerZ> oddball: thats why I was thinking about seeing if I could get some vandy space, like nlug does
12:28 < RangerZ> its a wet campus, and we can bring food on campus
12:29 <@oddball> We did that for a while.  Of course, that was in a building that's normally locked up at night.
12:30 < RangerZ> b/c i was thinking about it, and ALL we do at n2600 stuff is talk about PN, part of which is great, but I feel its lacking somewhat
12:31 <@oddball> SO, you're wanting more presentations, etc?
12:31 < RangerZ> I'm leaning that way
12:31 <@oddball> I want to say that Dagmar is with you on that.
12:31 < RangerZ> I got asked "so what do you do at these 2600 meetings"
12:32 < RangerZ> and I couldn't SAY anything
12:32 < RangerZ> "we talk about pn...."
12:32 < RangerZ> its sad when NLUG is better ran/less drama/more presenations
12:32 < RangerZ> no offense
12:32 < RangerZ> lol
12:33 <@oddball> When does NLUG meet again?  I should probably show up to one of those again.
12:33 < RangerZ> oddball: i was thinking the same actually
12:33 < RangerZ> and shweta was thinking of going, so I was going to go with her and check it out again
12:34 <@oddball> And well, this last year has been.... interesting at nashville2600 meetings.
12:34 < RangerZ> that dell talk about SUDO wasn't bad
12:34 < RangerZ> "The meeting is at 6:00 PM on the second Tuesday of the month."
12:35 < RangerZ> jan 12th it looks like
12:35 <@oddball> Ah, damn.  Can't do Tuesday nights.
12:36 <@Evilpig> that's the night when he meets up with the other jehova witnesses and discuss their plan to take over the world
12:37 < RangerZ> jan 14*, but still tue night
12:38 <@oddball> Evilpig: Nah, it's one of my TKD classes... so, training to take over the world.
12:38 < RangerZ> Evilpig: you wanna know whats funny... the least religious (outwardly) family I know who still are active in a church , are jehova's witnesses
12:38 < RangerZ> perhaps there are different 'sub parts' of the church
12:39 <@Evilpig> RangerZ: they keep to themselves because they don't want anyone catching onto their plan
12:39 < RangerZ> but I knew the girl and her family for almost 2 years before it even came up in covo
12:39 < RangerZ> conversation*
12:39 < RangerZ> no... they just followed what christ said about "don't be an annoying prick to your neighbors"
12:39 < RangerZ> its somewhere in there...
12:39 < RangerZ> lol
12:40 < RangerZ> so... I got invited to go to a mormon church for new years
12:40 <@Evilpig> got you some sister wives?
12:40 < RangerZ> I might go... just to see
12:40 < RangerZ> nah , officialy LDS church
12:40 < RangerZ> no many wives allowed
12:41 < RangerZ> (which I actually don't _personally_ have a problem with as long as the females are 18+)
12:41 <@Evilpig> no multiple wives?  i'm not seeing the appeal without that
12:41 < RangerZ> but all too often those situations turn into ~12 or so
12:42 < RangerZ> Evilpig: no caffiene, no alcohol, magic underwear, and you become the god of your own universe when you die
12:42 < RangerZ> but you DO get pork
12:42 <@oddball> I know a couple mormons.  Mostly, they don't drink and are vaugely preppers
12:42 <@oddball> As long as they're ok with *me* drinking, we get along pretty well.
12:42 < RangerZ> oddball: prepping is actually part of their religion
12:42 <@oddball> yep
12:43 < RangerZ> which is why I find it funny if I look up anything even 'slightly' prepper... you find LDS channels on youtube, etc
12:43 <@oddball> I know a few preppers that aren't mormon, but love shopping at the official mormon stores for that reason.
12:43 < RangerZ> "how to build good storage shelves" >> LDS channel
12:43 < RangerZ> lol, etc
12:44 <@oddball> The mormon shops tend to be the cheapest for that kind of stuff.
12:44 < RangerZ> ohh so you know how I've mentioned in the past that I'm curious about modular house building via shipping container outsides (of the modules, not of the building)
12:44 < RangerZ> they are ALL OVER that
12:45 <@oddball> huh
12:45 < RangerZ> and apparently a company in Toronto actually makes houses that way, with like 7% waste, compared to 50% with 'on site construction'
12:45 < RangerZ> << was going to be civil engineer/architect until I took programming classes in HS, lol
12:46 <@oddball> I've looked into that, and while it seems like a really interesting idea, I've seen some discussion about really needing to re-enforce the containers after cutting into them.
12:46 < RangerZ> oddball: yep, its not a "OMG so much cheaper" way to build
12:46 < RangerZ> as people think
12:46 < RangerZ> but it does have some other benefits
12:46 <@oddball> heh... of course, I'm curious how much waste from on site construction is just due to shitty practices.
12:46 < RangerZ> not really that much
12:47 <@Evilpig> cut twice, measure once, grab anther board
12:47 < RangerZ> well... let me rephrase that...
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12:47 < RangerZ> it depends on the building material
12:47 <@oddball> I've seen some sites where they were clearly throwing out stuff that they could have used elsewhere/they seriously fucked up on how much they needed.
12:47 < RangerZ> there are steel frames you can buy for houses that can be put together in a single 8hr day with 5 man crew
12:48 < RangerZ> but those come pre-cut/etc
12:48 <@oddball> Of course, if I had the money to build, I really want a concrete house.
12:48 < RangerZ> yeah... I know what you mean...but that has its own issues
12:48 <@oddball> Mostly, wireless signals suck. :p
12:48 < RangerZ> no, maint.
12:49 <@oddball> oh?  I thought they were better about that than stick built.
12:49 < RangerZ> if not 100% properly maintained, it can start to suck quickly
12:49 <@oddball> huh
12:49 < RangerZ> concrete is very fragile to ice build up and expansion
12:49 <@oddball> ah... hadn't thought of that.
12:50 < RangerZ> and while it will 'last' longer than stick
12:50 < RangerZ> repairs are a fucking bitch
12:50 < RangerZ> and much more expensive sometimes
12:50 < RangerZ> same with earthen damned walls
12:50 < RangerZ> you have to MAKE SURE no water is getting into the wall
12:51 <@oddball> True
12:51 <@oddball> And while I would love living in a giant-sized hobbit hole...
12:51 < RangerZ> the wife not so much?
12:51 < RangerZ> lol
12:51 <@Evilpig> you like getting laid more?
12:52 < RangerZ> Evilpig: I'm leaning towards "likes getting to breathe more"
12:52 <@oddball> Actually, if we could make sure that there were enough windows...
12:52 <@oddball> Naienko is a huge Tolkien fangirl.
12:53 < RangerZ> oddball: easy fix for that is a single GIANT window
12:53 < RangerZ> the entire south side of the house
12:53 < RangerZ> rest is underground
12:53 <@oddball> yep
12:53 <@oddball> Or skylights.
12:53 < RangerZ> a millionaire built that out in montanna
12:53 < RangerZ> i 'have' pictures somewhere...
12:54 < RangerZ> but I'd honestly rather have the southern face of my house be solar panels and solar hot water heaters
12:54 <@Evilpig> but you could have cloud computing based heating
12:54 <@oddball> The fight over "building our dream house" is over the basement that I want that would include a tornado shelter/walk in armory/man cave.
12:55 < RangerZ> oddball its called "sub basement level 2"
12:55 < RangerZ> thats all
12:55 <@oddball> yep :)
12:55 < RangerZ> dig until you are below international legal zones
12:55 < RangerZ> only 20miles or something
12:55 <@oddball> heh
12:56 < _NSAKEY> Just add an elevator.
12:56 <@oddball> I keep drooling over the Nike missle silos for sale around the Cincinati area.
12:56 < RangerZ> oddball: don't
12:56 < RangerZ> they aren't as good as you'd think
12:56 < _NSAKEY> oddball: A lot of those old silos had the doors left open and have been rained in for decades.
12:56 < RangerZ> too many unsold air jordans filling them up now
12:56 < RangerZ> -_-
12:57  * oddball hits the rimshot for RangerZ 
12:57 < _NSAKEY> About the only ones that are still in decent shape are in places liks Arizona.
12:57 < RangerZ> but seriously, what _NSAKEY said, also ground water seapage from below flooded a lot of them
12:57 <@oddball> Yeah... I know
12:57  * RangerZ feels bad for crushing a dream of oddball's 
12:57 < RangerZ> lol
12:58 <@oddball> The Nike silos aren't as bad, since the missles were stored on their sides, but...
12:58 < RangerZ> but yeah... 'dream house' planning takes a long time/etc
12:58 < _NSAKEY> There's I think a minuteman silo in Arizona that got converted into a museum. The rest of the ones I've seen have heavy water damage on the inside.
12:59 < RangerZ> I am a big supporter of extra wide/tall doors now too... make it easier for people with wheelchairs, etc. to get through
12:59 < RangerZ> don't have anyone in the family currently with the need for one... but wouldn't want to limit myself in the future
13:00 <@oddball> _NSAKEY: Which is probably why most of the folks that have converted Atlas silos have only converted a floor or two down and let the rest of the floors rot.
13:01 < _NSAKEY> oddball: Sounds about right.
13:01 < RangerZ> plus having strong support beams over the bathtub with eye hooks built in
13:01 < RangerZ> can be used when you're older for hanging seats or whatever
13:01 < RangerZ> and NOW... for ... well... fun
13:01 < RangerZ> ;) lol
13:01 < _NSAKEY> There was one in New York that still had the remains of the computer inside. Of course, it was water damaged all to hell.
13:01 < _NSAKEY> That was 2-3 years ago.
13:09 <@oddball> You know the thing about dream houses?  Money is no object!
13:11 < RangerZ> Naienko's hands and sharp kitchen knives on the other hand... are an object worth considering
13:11 < RangerZ> lol
13:11 <@oddball> Well... yes.
13:12 < RangerZ> because even drawing up plans that have a 'man cave' and no walk in closets
13:12 < RangerZ> ...tsk tsk tsk... it was nice knowing you
13:12 < RangerZ> lol
13:13 < RangerZ> (or whatever in particular 'she' wants, if it isn't walk in closets)
13:13 < RangerZ> lol
13:13 <@oddball> Giant windows.
13:13 < RangerZ> ahh
13:16 < _NSAKEY> s/closets/panic rooms/
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15:49 <@Dagmar> I think NOtch has been upstaged by Oort Online
15:49 <@Dagmar> At least, if they get everything they're promising working
15:50 <@Evilpig> notch sold to microsoft.  he won.
15:52 <@Dagmar> Hehheh
15:55 <@Evilpig> speaking of microsoft.  I finally got to try the plex client out for the 360 and it works well
15:57 <@Dagmar> The Oort people still have a ways to go, but I do like some of the graphical touches
15:58 <@Dagmar> Not every line is straight, for instance
16:27 <@Dagmar> I do so wish 1080 video didn't so often have freaking areas I need to crop
16:27 <@Dagmar> It's practically random with BBC America
16:27 <@Dagmar> I don't get why the entire thing can be digital from end to end, and we still wind up with 1-2 lines of black being involved.
16:33 <@oddball> Wasn't someone in here talking about wanting a Dragonov?  Local gun ad facebook group has someone selling one for $1k... including Pelican case for it and 880 rounds.
16:34 <@Dagmar> evilpig: The special snowflake committee finally figured out that perhaps making a public list of other special snowflakes was a bad idea
17:10 <@Evilpig> is it gone now?  I didn't even look
17:12 <@Evilpig> heh.  I see that hugme deleted that post about it
17:19 <@Dagmar> Yeah I sent the link to Nadia and when she saw it a few hours later the doc was gone
17:24 < RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRDf0-emp1M HAHAHA
17:25 < RangerZ> someone swapped a PS4 with bags of rocks...
17:25 < RangerZ> and returned it to walmart
17:26 < RangerZ> and I KNOW people fucked up several times at walmart... because this was common with PS2, because you could open up PS2s and replace inner parts
17:26 <@Evilpig> the bigger story there is someone managed to return two bags of rocks as a ps4
17:28 <@Dagmar> This is a bigger embarrassment for WalMart because they're technically not allowed to sell open-box items as new in most places.
17:28 < RangerZ> I know a guy who returned a bag of laundy soap as a PS2
17:29 < RangerZ> apparently it fucking looked like a brick of coke
17:29 < RangerZ> b/c he taped it up into brick, etc
17:29 <@Dagmar> Ah... watching the video, it was at least marked as returned
17:29 <@Dagmar> Someone at Walmart will be in some shit then for not checking it properly.
17:30 < RangerZ> yeah, b/c corp. policy changed after the call from the cops "someone was smuggling coke through walmart"
17:30 < RangerZ> after opening it up... they found out it wasn't... but still it made the news,e tc
17:32 < RangerZ> http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/don-blankenship-indicted
17:33 <@Dagmar> Wow.
17:33 <@Dagmar> Dude is soooo going to jail
17:33 < RangerZ> the head of the mining company where 29 people died , face up to 31 years in prison if convicted....
17:33 <@Dagmar> Keeping two sets of books?  Wow.  Sooo guilty.
17:33 < RangerZ> but... he's facing 10x more jailtime for lying to SEC then killing people
17:34 < RangerZ> can't have someone upsetting the other rich people's funds
17:34 < RangerZ> ....fml....
17:37 <@Dagmar> This is at least good http://www.jrn.com/newschannel5/news/Santa-Fe-family-receives-new-sleigh-after-theirs-was-stolen--286933181.html
17:38 <@Dagmar> heck I would ahve volunteered to help build the new one
17:39 < RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWhlZr5UcSQ HAHAHA
17:39 < RangerZ> [Kirk Cameron's 'Saving Christmas' = The Worst Movie In The History Of Man]
17:41 <@Dagmar> TYT has another story about some dogs that were dyed to look like pandas
17:41 <@Dagmar> Turko says it was offensive becuase the dogs were in "blackface"
17:41 <@Dagmar> Idiocy like that is why I don't respect that guy
17:42 <@Dagmar> There's nothing racially offensive about dying spots in an animals fur
17:42 <@Dagmar> Even the above sentence sounds dumb as a result
17:42 < RangerZ> no, just animal cruelty
17:42 <@Dagmar> Well... _weird_ maybe.  Cruel, I'm not so sure.
17:43 <@Dagmar> Dogs of that breed loooove attention
17:43 <@Dagmar> I suspect they rather enjoyed themselves and all the resulting attention
17:43 < RangerZ> I have one
17:43 < RangerZ> chow/lab mix
17:44 <@Dagmar> I am assuming they didn't use _paint_
17:44 <@Dagmar> That would be cruel becuase it would irritate the animal's eyes
17:44 <@Dagmar> You could certainly use a fabric dye with a brush
17:47 <@Dagmar> My mom's yorkie loves attention to a ridiculous degree
17:48 <@Dagmar> That dog will sit absolutely still for as long as necessary when she's being brushed
17:48 <@Dagmar> I could literally cover that dog in bows
18:50 <@Dagmar> I'll be glad when I get this re-encoding shit sorted
18:50 <@Dagmar> I am not a fan of running four hour long tests in quantity
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18:54 <@Dagmar> The HD-PVR gets it encoded, but the encoding is idiotic
18:54 <@Dagmar> It's a no-brainer for an instant transition to black to be an I-frame, but it doesn't care
19:27 <@klixa> RangerZ and Dagmar they make vegetable based non toxic hair dyed; they prolly used something like that
20:28 <@Dagmar> Pfft.  The people who sent me that badly designed cardboard unit don't like the two-star
20:28 <@Dagmar> Perhaps they should have at least looked at their stencil to ensure it's sanity
21:11 < aestetix> oh hai
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22:50 <@oddball> fuck.  Seeing a friend dying in a hospital bed hit me harder than I thought it would.
22:52 < aestetix> oddball: ouch. yeah, it does.
22:53 < aestetix> Did you see them actually die, or are they still alive?
22:56 <@oddball> They're still alive, but the doctors aren't hopeful.
22:57 <@oddball> He had a stroke Thursday night/Friday morning.
22:58 < aestetix> got it
22:59 < RangerZ> ouch, sorry to hear that man
23:05 <@Dagmar> 38:33 in Last Christmas
23:05 <@Dagmar> Is it just me or does Santa actually say "Shut up, Peter."
23:07 < aestetix> oddball: on the plus side, he'll never be able to see The Interview
23:07 < aestetix> what a godawful movie
23:07 <@oddball> Actually, he's the kind of guy that would like it.
23:08 < RangerZ> oddball: take him a copy to watch at the hospital then
23:08 < aestetix> god
23:08 < aestetix> haha
23:08 <@Bahhumbug> oddball: I am very sorry to hear that.  I hope that all works out as best as possible for everyone involved.
23:08 <@oddball> Dagmar: I know he said a name... I meant to grab a copy and listen closely for it.
23:08 <@Dagmar> It's hard to tell
23:08 < RangerZ> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/27/pope-francis-edict-climate-change-us-rightwing
23:08 < RangerZ> man... I'm starting to love this pope
23:09 < RangerZ> not really the church so much... but the pope
23:09 < RangerZ> lol
23:09 <@Bahhumbug> +1 to that.
23:09 < aestetix> the pope is awesome
23:09 <@Bahhumbug> Fuck the church.  But Francis is pretty damn awesome.
23:09 < aestetix> the church needs to get over itself
23:09 < RangerZ> aestetix: francis said that
23:09 <@oddball> Yeah... this pope is out-doing Jon Paul II
23:09 < RangerZ> right before xmas
23:10 <@oddball> Which makes me wonder how pissed the last pope is for stepping down.  He was very much old school.
23:10 <@Bahhumbug> John Paul II... not that great.  The whole coverup of child-raping douchebags.... not cool.
23:11 <@oddball> Very true, but he also did a hell of a lot of good in reforming the church and reaching out to other faiths.
23:12 <@Bahhumbug> I won't argue that, but the coverup, in my opinion, overshadows his good works.
23:12 <@Bahhumbug> I used ot be a _very_ strong proponent of him but that's changed in the past few years.
23:12 < aestetix> Francis also gets bonus points for not being a nazi
23:12 <@oddball> And I was always kind of curious how much he actually knew about the cover ups.  Francis is a hell of a lot more "hands on" with the workings of the church than previous popes.
23:13 <@Bahhumbug> That's possible.
23:13 <@Bahhumbug> He was old when elected and in his final years rumor has it he wasn't really "there" much.
23:13 <@Bahhumbug> So I presume _much_ was filtered from him.
23:14 <@oddball> Yeah... that's the issue with a position that's traditionally a life-long post.
23:14 <@Bahhumbug> Francis is one of the younger popes elected in the past 100 some years, I believe.
23:14 <@oddball> And the cover ups didn't really start seeing the light of day until his last few years.
23:15 <@Bahhumbug> Well... the Hole See has _always_ had a policy of deny deny deny.
23:15 <@oddball> I think that there's a few cardinals that might be regretting voting for him.
23:15 <@Bahhumbug> Good :)
23:15 <@Bahhumbug> They can get swept up in his housecleaning :)
23:16 <@Bahhumbug> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ages_of_popes
23:16 <@Bahhumbug> If anyone is interested.
23:16 <@oddball> I did enjoy the story I heard recently that stated that he's basically saying "it's been how long since you've been in front of a congregation/doing missionary work?  Then stop pushing papers, and get to work!"
23:17 <@Bahhumbug> JP2 was 58 at election.
23:17 <@Bahhumbug> I thought he was much older.
23:18 < aestetix> JP2 was pope for like 25 years
23:18 <@Bahhumbug> 26 years, 168 days.
23:18 <@Dagmar> I think there will be a great many future cardinals who will be rather pleased he was elected
23:18 <@Bahhumbug> Oddly enough... it's in the link I posted.
23:19 <@Bahhumbug> Dagmar: Indeed.
23:20 <@oddball> Also, fuck Benedict.  Not only was he a Nazi, but he was also a quitter. :p
23:20 <@Bahhumbug> The Church needs a major overhaul and I think Francis is the guy to do it.
23:20 <@Bahhumbug> I suspect he was told "quit or die in your sleep".
23:21 <@oddball> heh
23:21 <@Bahhumbug> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_murdered_popes
23:21 <@Bahhumbug> Just sayin'
23:26 < RangerZ> "Francis will also be opposed by the powerful US evangelical movement, said Calvin Beisner, spokesman for the conservative Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation, which has declared the US environmental movement to be “un-biblical” and a false religion."
23:26 < RangerZ> ok... wtf..
23:26 < RangerZ> where does it say in the bible that humans should rape & pilage the earth, and fuck up the ecology
23:27 < RangerZ> part of me hopes that Pope Francis is just doing it to troll the conservatives with that point of view
23:28 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: But the bible scales perfectly!
23:28 <@Dickie> He putting priests in jail that touched the children?
23:28 < _NSAKEY> It may have been written thousands of years ago but it contains 1:1 analogies for every possible event in life!
23:34 < RangerZ> Dickie: yes actually
23:34 <@Bahhumbug> Yep.
23:34 <@Bahhumbug> No more sanctuary / coverups / moving people around.
23:34 <@Bahhumbug> Priests have to take responsibility for their actions.
23:35 < RangerZ> he put a new person in charge of that 'section' and they aren't playing the games that used to be played
23:35 <@Dagmar> No more Leapfrog?
23:35 < RangerZ> nor duck duck goose
23:35 <@oddball> Or fleeing the fucking country.
23:36 <@oddball> Which is good.  I can go back to not seeing the Catholic church as a giant criminal org.
23:36 < RangerZ> god I hate audiophiles
23:36 <@Bahhumbug> I wouldn't go _that_ far, oddball.
23:36 < RangerZ> "you should listen to an albulm in order not just some songs"
23:36 <@oddball> Bahhumbug: Well, there's still tax evasion, but...
23:36 <@Bahhumbug> For some albums that makes perfect sense.
23:37 <@Dagmar> This assumes you're listening to an album where the artists cared about the presentation order
23:37 < RangerZ> oddball: only in the USA, where we wanted church to stay the FUCK out of politics
23:37 < RangerZ> but we don't enforce that law
23:37 <@Bahhumbug> Many countries, actually.
23:37 < RangerZ> b/c NO DA wants to lose their job
23:37 <@Bahhumbug> DAs can be replaced.
23:37 < RangerZ> which is why they don't go after churches
23:37 < RangerZ> they CAN be replaces
23:38 <@Bahhumbug> The numbers in monetary loss due to lack of taxation is simply insane.
23:38 < RangerZ> replaced*
23:38 < RangerZ> roughly ~1/2 trillion a year or so
23:38 <@Bahhumbug> I don't believe it is nearly that high, actually.  But it's still a _very_ large amount.
23:39 < RangerZ> gotta remember that a lot of fools pay 10% to their church each year
23:39 < RangerZ> i mean 'believers'
23:39 <@Bahhumbug> You were right the first time.
23:39 <@Bahhumbug> Tithe this.
23:40 <@oddball> Fuck that, I just want them to have to pay property tax.
23:40 <@Bahhumbug> ^ that
23:40 <@Bahhumbug> ^ that * 10000000
23:40 < _NSAKEY> oddball: But what about the churches who get into rental property and don't have to pay taxes on any of that?
23:41 <@Bahhumbug> You mean like the Catholic Church?
23:41 < _NSAKEY> That's not exclusive to them by any means.
23:41 < _NSAKEY> But yeah.
23:41 <@oddball> _NSAKEY: I believe the owner of the property is the one responsible for dealing with property tax.
23:41 < _NSAKEY> oddball: I'm referring to the money they make for buying up land and renting it out.
23:42 <@Bahhumbug> And the "owner" is the local Diocese for the Catholic Church.
23:42 < RangerZ> oddball: he means the church renting out property
23:42 <@oddball> I still don't see that clashing with "the owner of the property has to pay it."
23:42 < _NSAKEY> It isn't meant to clash with it.
23:42 < RangerZ> but "churches"
23:42 < RangerZ> lol
23:42 < _NSAKEY> They're getting a free ride on both.
23:42 <@oddball> Just remove the bit where "oh, you're a church.  You don't pay."
23:45 <@Dagmar> Oh my god
23:45 <@Dagmar> Not safe for soda http://memegop.org/2014/12/regulations-for-pissing-on-cheneys-grave-announced/
23:46 < RangerZ> LOLOL
23:48 < aestetix> so nobody has played talos principle?
23:50 <@Dagmar> Nope.
23:50 <@Dagmar> After the Stanley Debacle, I'm a bit leery of any game whose promos are quite that vague
23:51 < aestetix> you didn't like that game?
23:52 <@Dagmar> Considering hte whole people seemed to be to find out how much bullshit a player will put up with... not really
23:52 <@Dagmar> s/people/point/
23:52 < aestetix> Isn't that also the point of college?
23:58 < aestetix> interesting
23:58 < aestetix> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/23/opinion/the-real-threat-to-hillary-clinton-jim-webb.html
--- Log closed Mon Dec 29 00:00:28 2014