--- Log opened Wed Oct 29 00:00:16 2014
01:33 <@Dagmar> http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/10/28/erin-sot-acosta-white-house-network-suspicious-activity.cnn.html
01:33 <@GateKeeper> Title: Suspicious activity on W.H. computer network - CNN.com Video (at www.cnn.com)
01:33 <@Dagmar> Ha ha!
01:33 <@Dagmar> Probably the NSA
01:34 < RangerZ1> perhaps someone should let the fbi know that PN has something to do with it, and they should go watch it
01:34 < RangerZ1> lol
01:34 < RangerZ1> I mean... if we're going to be calling AGs
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04:33 <@Dagmar> Well, I got the new _black_ home button in for my phone
04:33 <@Dagmar> Little did I know that replacing it on the S3 involves _removing the screen_.
04:33 <@Dagmar> Nope nope nope nope.
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06:41  * Shadow404 hugs the_hugme 
06:41 <@Shadow404> long time no see man
06:41 <@Shadow404> well since froli
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08:04 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
08:06 <@wilpig> hrmm.  maybe it wasn't the drive failing on the wii-u after all.  it isn't wanting to see this new drive now
08:06 <@wilpig> need to get my other drive converter out later and tinker
08:07 <@Dolemite> wilpig: It may be too late for SyFy to admit that they are PureShit
08:07 <@Dolemite> And their new series, Hunters, will make people think it's another form of Ghost Hunters or some such
08:07 <@Dolemite> All because of the name
08:08 <@wilpig> admitting the problem is the first step though right?
08:08 <@Dolemite> It is.  We'll see if they can turn around.
08:09 <@Dolemite> It would be decent if they'd actually show reruns of classic Science Fiction shows, instead of the dumbass monster of the month movie
08:09 <@Dolemite> Don't get me wrong, a dumbass monster movie is good on occasion, but not 3 nights a week
08:10 <@wilpig> well they were convinced that dumbass monster movies were going to make them billions of dollars and not making them the laughing stock of the entertainment industry
08:10 <@Bahhumbug> Are they still hosting wrasslin'?
08:15 <@wilpig> I assume so
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08:16 <@wilpig> http://www.syfy.com/schedule/?date=2014-11-3
08:16 <@GateKeeper> Title: Schedule | Syfy (at www.syfy.com)
08:16 <@Dolemite> Time for a 2.5 hour all hands meeting!
08:16 <@Dolemite> They're feeding us.  You know what that means.
08:16 <@Dolemite> Likely reduction in force coming up next year!
08:18 <@CRasH180> Must love those meetings
08:18 <@CRasH180> I hope that is not the case
08:18 < aestetix> so
08:19 < aestetix> I'm starting to think scaling webservers is the tech equivalent of a tour in vietnam
08:19 < aestetix> you don't understand it unless you've been through it
08:20 <@wilpig> haha
08:20 <@wilpig> Dolemite: they're drugging the food to make you more passive
08:20 <@wilpig> or they're drugging the food so you forget about the xeno-lab
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08:26 <@Dolemite> I marked the Xeno-lab in the map that I'm etching into my cat's fur
08:26  * aestetix sighs
08:26 < aestetix> You know
08:26 <@Dolemite> ok, meeting time
08:26 <@wilpig> you just made aestetix sad,  he wants a cat
08:26 < aestetix> there is the theory that if you have the ideal setup in the very beginning, a system will unfold into beauty
08:27 < aestetix> but we never have an ideal setup
08:27 <@wilpig> aestetix: that will never work if humans are involved
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08:35 < aestetix> wilpig: that's why we need more butt play in the world
08:38 <@the_hugme> I'm silencing alerts temporary on amz1opc6trns1 but will be watching it closely
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08:38 <@the_hugme> heh, wow wrong room
08:38 <@the_hugme> good morning everyone :-D
08:39 <@Bahhumbug> irc for in-house communication ftw?
08:39 <@Bahhumbug> Honestly, I know a few places doing this and I wish more would.  It's an ideal form of internal communication.
08:39 <@the_hugme> No, I just use pidgin which combines it with my hipchat
08:40 <@Bahhumbug> Ahh.
08:40 < aestetix> everyone seems to use hipchat
08:40 < aestetix> which doesn't make sense to me, but whatever
08:40 <@the_hugme> Yeah, I hate it
08:40 <@the_hugme> really, really hate it
08:40 <@the_hugme> it's because it comes with the jira/confluence package
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08:41 <@the_hugme> I can't stand Jira or Confluence either
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08:42 <@the_hugme> But then I've never seen a great ticketing system, so I guess it has the same amount of crapiness as all the others.
08:42 <@Bahhumbug> I want to have jira's offspring.
08:42 <@Bahhumbug> I absolutely love that package.
08:42 <@Bahhumbug> It's biggest wins: It's not trac and it sure as hell isn't bz.
08:42 <@Bahhumbug> s/It's/Its/
08:43 <@Bahhumbug> But most such packages aren't a one size fits all solution and are really a personal choice.
08:43 <@the_hugme> The problem with it, and all other ticketing systems for that matter is they make assumptions about the way your infrastructure works. So you have to build the way you work around the ticketing system instead of the other way around
08:44  * aestetix hugs the_hugme 
08:44 < aestetix> sorry Dolemite
08:44 <@the_hugme> But there are some basics that they all leave out and it has to do with integration into the rest of your systems
08:45 <@Bahhumbug> I've (personally) found jira to be quite customizable but I can see where it wouldn't fit in some environments.
08:45 <@CRasH180> When I worked at BMC everyone hated Jira
08:46 <@opticron> I use Jira and it's acceptable, it really depends on how well your workflow fits what you do (or if a workflow can ever fit what you do)
08:46 <@opticron> confluence is the thing I abhor
08:46 <@wilpig> it's very customizable but it can be slow because it's so integrated into other shit
08:46 <@opticron> I...have noticed this
08:47 <@Bahhumbug> I've been hearing that a lot lately about Confluence.  I've not used it as much as jira but I didn't find it all that bad.  But, again, personal choices and such.
08:47 <@the_hugme> Saying Jira's dashboards are limited is an understatement. so is their search capability. and while working with individual tickets are great, working with projects is tedious.
08:47 <@Bahhumbug> That I can't speak to as I've not done much with projects as a whole.
08:47 <@Bahhumbug> I should set up another instance and play.
08:48 <@Bahhumbug> My license should still be valid.
08:48 <@the_hugme> Confluence would be great if they would fix it. pages disappear and reappear, searches don't work half the time...
08:48 <@Bahhumbug> You self-hosted or using their hosting service?
08:48 <@opticron> Bahhumbug, my main gripes with confluence are: they dropped the markup editor (their wysiwyg editor sucks, but has improved since they did that), and the confluence plugin system is woefully underpowered and limited
08:49 <@the_hugme> we are using their hosting service
08:49 <@opticron> as a basic wiki, confluence is acceptable
08:50 <@Bahhumbug> Using Stash at all?  If so, thoughts on it?
08:50 <@wilpig> the_hugme: jira's search isn't bad but it is far from user friendly about it
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08:51 <@opticron> we have stash for some minor internal stuff, we're not moving forward with it
08:51 <@opticron> we're likely to transition to gitolite/gerrit
08:52 <@Bahhumbug> Is gitolite less of a PITA than gitlab about deps?
08:59 <@the_hugme> I would prefer just a simple mediwiki
08:59 <@opticron> I don't know much about gitlab
09:00 <@opticron> the_hugme, we had a simple mediawiki, then the top brass proclaimed they needed something that didn't require writing code to modify/create which just so happened to coincide with the move to jira from our previous ticketing system
09:00 <@Bahhumbug> I am fond of midiawiki.  I am not fond of their security track record.
09:00 <@Bahhumbug> At least they are proactive on that front.
09:01 <@Bahhumbug> err, mediawiki.
09:01 <@opticron> we didn't use mediawiki for anything external, and yes, it's a pita to lock down in any way
09:01 <@Bahhumbug> Sigh, I need more Dr. Pepper
09:13 <@wilpig> screw that.  get coke
09:13 <@wilpig> i'm having a black and white cookie myself
09:15 <@wilpig> who wants to point and go wtf at alienware?  http://www.cnet.com/products/alienware-13/
09:17 <@Bahhumbug> wilpig: Uh... no.  Coke is like drinking battery acid to me.  I much prefer 'Pepper.
09:19 <@wilpig> >:-O  i hope you die!
09:21 <@Bahhumbug> I will.  That's a guarantee.
09:21 <@Bahhumbug> The question is how many others I take with me.
09:22 <@wilpig> if anyone goes down that path, please be a courteous mass murderer and remember we all have lists
09:23 <@Bahhumbug> I will take suggestions.
09:23 <@wilpig> we're in agreement that crazypants is near the top right?
09:24 <@wilpig> that should just be considered community service
09:24 <@Bahhumbug> There is probably still a spy in this channel reporting back to their gutless leader so I don't want to say something that can be contrued as assault.
09:24 <@Bahhumbug> That being said there _are_ elevator shafts in Nashville.
09:45 <@benthemeek> ^ I am trying to hang in here to answer any phreaknic related questions and make sure I clear up any uncertainties/FUD that I can
09:46 <@Bahhumbug> benthemeek: That comment was not directed at you.
09:46 <@Bahhumbug> Things have magically gotten back to crazy bitch and others while you were not present in this channel.
09:46 <@Bahhumbug> Far as I know that's still going on.  But I was not implying said "spy" was you by any means.
09:49 <@benthemeek> I worry about this thing with her esculating like that
09:51 <@benthemeek> I mean people may say off the cuff things(that I know are not serious)  but I am worried that she feels physically in danger. Its not a good recipe for a happy healthy Con.
09:51 <@wilpig> she shoudl feel physically in danger with all the people she's pissed off
09:52 <@wilpig> she shoudl be afraid to walk out her front door let alone attend any event with a dense concentration of people
09:52 <@wilpig> she has no clue who half of those people are she's pissed off on twitter
09:55 <@benthemeek> I don't think anyone should feel scared for their life when all they do is talk/rant; yet I know that isn't the reality of the world. I have no idea how to de-escalate this. Especially with the twitter and comments made to here, but I am giving it my best shot.
09:56 <@wilpig> when those people make no positive contributions to society but consistently make it a more difficult place to live I think they shoudl very much be fearful of their life and freedom
09:56 <@benthemeek> And I agree I think the conversation here is being recorded, but hopefully a few of us can bring some sanity to the conversation.
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09:59 <@Bahhumbug> If she doesn't want to feel threatened she should learn to shut the fuck up.
09:59 <@Bahhumbug> It's really that simple.
09:59 <@Bahhumbug> She's brought _everything_ on herself.
09:59 <@Bahhumbug> And while I don't condone violence no matter what I may spew out here and elsewhere, she _has_ pissed people off and in this day and age she should know better.
10:00 <@CRasH180> That should be a SHOULD know better
10:01 <@Bahhumbug> She's not a stupid human being.  She's not quite as smart as she thinks herself to be, but then again most people are not.
10:01 <@Bahhumbug> She should know that her comments and beliefs offend people.  And while she is entitled to those beliefs she should learn where to voice them and where not to.
10:01 <@CRasH180> A lot of people do not know that
10:01 <@Bahhumbug> Note:  This is not that community.
10:02 <@benthemeek> Eh, there are all kinds of intelligence in my opinion. A lot of the community (ours) struggle with the emotional/social kind
10:02 <@Bahhumbug> CRasH180: A lot of people don't go off saying that all men are rapists.
10:02 <@CRasH180> Well, this is true
10:02 <@benthemeek> Has she said that?
10:02 <@Bahhumbug> I personal feel strongly about that comment.  I'm not an animal and don't like being lumped in with them.
10:02 <@wilpig> yes she has
10:02 <@Bahhumbug> Repeatedly.  As was pointed out when you first came back here the other day.
10:03 <@benthemeek> *smh* Well if thats true what a quick way to lose support by people who are trying
10:03 <@wilpig> obviously now
10:03 <@wilpig> not*
10:03 <@Bahhumbug> I am || this close to opening up my channel logs of this channel.
10:03 <@benthemeek> I know the article, but I just didn't/don't know if I can believe that
10:03 <@benthemeek> Or more likely
10:03 <@Bahhumbug> Not that she or the chumps she's suckered into taking her side will believe them.
10:04 <@benthemeek> Was this a rant of a drunk person who doesnt really think it
10:04 <@Bahhumbug> I don't give a shit if she was drunk or stoned or straight.
10:04 <@wilpig> drunk is no excuse for loss of a filter
10:04 <@Bahhumbug> She said these things on multiple occasions in front of multiple people.
10:04 <@Bahhumbug> She's fucking nuts.
10:04 <@benthemeek> I don't know, it goes back to that social intellegence. Some things shouldnt be said no mater how drunk...
10:04 <@Bahhumbug> Sane people don't have her beliefs.
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10:06 <@Bahhumbug> And before you or anyone starts in on her childhood and her mommy and daddy not loving her or loving her too much or whatever.....  I don't care.  That's no excuse for her behavior as an adult.
10:07 <@benthemeek> Bahhumbug: I said those things in attempt to understand, not excuse. There are people who have had far worse circumstances and learned to manage that filter Wilpig mentioned
10:09 <@wilpig> it's basic social skills.  anyone outside of a deeply touched aspbergers patient knows how to use them.  it's a conscious decision not to
10:09 <@benthemeek> I am pretty freaking clueless on what to do when someone takes it in turns to exhibit a lot of anti-social behaviour. I want to help but this may be a task best meant for mental health professionals
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10:12 <@benthemeek> So here is a question: I know the things she said here and on twitter will never be forgotten; but is there anything that could happen that will let them be forgiven? Or is this just someone you guys think will never be able to be part of our community... hmmm
10:12 <@wilpig> benthemeek: the same thing you do with your children.  you tell them that is inappropriate and to act their age
10:12 <@wilpig> benthemeek: she lives to start shit, she's the drunk version of ware 24/7
10:12 <@Bahhumbug> She has burned bridges.
10:13 <@wilpig> there's no place for that shit in here
10:13 <@wilpig> or anywhere
10:13 <@Bahhumbug> Speaking as a non-dues-payer I will never, ever, forgive her for her bullshit and work towards splintering the community.
10:14 <@wilpig> when she was in here looking for help with this and that and I myself gave her a valid key for windows to have her later turn around and say I was a rapist, out to screw everyone, treating me like some type of criminal for no fucking reason?  fuck that!
10:15 <@Bahhumbug> Have the key revoked.
10:15 <@Bahhumbug> Fuck her.
10:15 <@Bahhumbug> If you have a copy of it and report it as stolen m$ _will_ blacklist it.
10:15 <@benthemeek> Yeah, we aren't group therapy.
10:15 <@wilpig> leave it valid and bring that shit up repeatedly as a counter measure to her bullshit
10:16 <@wilpig> it's a constant reminder to her in the back of her fucked up mind that she's full of shit
10:16 <@Bahhumbug> You're a better man than I.  I would go out of my way to make her life rough.  Why should she get a $100+ key for free after her actions?
10:16 <@Bahhumbug> But meh.
10:16 <@wilpig> at least in a non-sociopath it would be
10:16 <@Bahhumbug> She won't look at it like that.
10:16 <@Bahhumbug> She looks at it as if she got one over on you.
10:17 <@opticron> s/you/a rapist/
10:18 <@wilpig> that's her right, she can think that.  at the end of the day I can hold my head up high knowing I tried to help out a fellow human being.  I did my part to society to try and make it a better place
10:18 <@wilpig> nobody can fault me on being a nice person
10:18 <@Bahhumbug> opticron: +1
10:18 <@Bahhumbug> She will.  And that's the point :)
10:18 <@Bahhumbug> But you do whatever you want.  I wasn't trying to sway you one way or another.
10:18 <@wilpig> I don't care what she thinks. she's broken
10:19 <@CRasH180> benthemeek: This is how I stay sane with my daily se2600 therapy session
10:20 <@wilpig> ARGGGGGGGGGG!!!!
10:21 <@wilpig> MOTHERFUCKER!
10:21 <@wilpig> close the damn doors on the vertical cable management you fucks!
10:21 <@wilpig> someone here closes these just enough to look closed
10:21 <@wilpig> I grab the handle and open the other side and the entire fuckin' door comes off
10:22 <@brimstone> someone leaves ours open too
10:22 <@brimstone> wide open though
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10:22 <@timoguin> All I know is wilpig never raped me that I know of.
10:22 <@brimstone> also, i agree with the old man about Dr Pepper
10:22 <@wilpig> wide open I can deal with.  it's dumb and causes airflow issues but it isn't as frustrating as pulling a handle and getting hit with a door
10:23  * wilpig slides closer to timoguin 
10:23 <@benthemeek> CRasH180: I knew my sanity lessened when I got too busy at work to hang out here.. IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!
10:23 <@opticron> Bahhumbug, you should strap a dildo to your forehead so you can be extra efficient at what you are, being a man and all
10:23 <@wilpig> haha
10:24 <@wilpig> can't tell if this is interference or just a weird back beat in my headphones
10:24 <@CRasH180> lol
10:24 <@wilpig> it's only on the left channel too
10:25 <@CRasH180> That just made me think of The Neighbors
10:25 <@Bahhumbug> opticron: I'll get right on that.
10:25 <@opticron> it could be your halloween costume
10:26 <@Bahhumbug> Uh-huh.
10:26 <@wilpig> bah.  it's the left channel being flakey.  changed stations on xm and still hear it but not as bad with a differnt style of music
10:27 <@wilpig> nobody can top dressing up as a taco
10:27 <@wilpig> I win halloween
10:34 <@wilpig> hrmm. maybe just that station.  switched to rockbar and it's crystal clear
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12:02  * rhia scrolls
12:02 <@rhia> was going to ask about PN this year, but ...
12:02 <@rhia> Drama, again
12:03 <@rhia> and, just vaguely curious-in-passing - wtf is anarchival/amber?
12:04 <@oddball> batshit crazy
12:04 <@Bahhumbug> An understatement.
12:04 <@Bahhumbug> She makes redidents of your local nuthouse look sane.
12:04 <@oddball> Who is also apparently Dru's new BFF.
12:04 <@Bahhumbug> residents, even
12:05 <@rhia> local nashvegas or imported?
12:05 <@Bahhumbug> Local as far as I know.
12:05 <@Bahhumbug> It might have left for a time and then got kicked out of wherever it was and returned.
12:06 <@rhia> don't recognize name or nick - sad to see mentions that the con might not last after this one
12:06 <@oddball> Yeah... she claims that she was part of the scene way back in the day, but the local folks that were part of things back then don't seem to remember her.
12:07 <@rhia> and, for the legal stuff ... check out the major science and atheist convention bylaws, they HAVE had lawyers draw them up
12:08 <@Bahhumbug> The bylaws are just a deflection in my nowhere humble opinion.
12:08 <@rhia> "part of the scene" -- wouldn't happen to mean "one of mavericks scene girls" would it? cuz, otherwise, i do NOT remember an amber
12:08 <@Bahhumbug> The issue with anarchival isn't just she's nuts... but the fact that she's been booted from most other communities where she was at one point a member.
12:09 <@oddball> And is now is the left hand of Fearless Leader.
12:09 <@rhia> deflection or not, if it's causing a problem . . .
12:09 <@benthemeek> oddball: if she is a problem Dru needs to know abou tit
12:09 <@oddball> benthemeek: Several of us have tried to tell him.
12:10 <@benthemeek> but he needs to see that behaviour for himself
12:10 <@oddball> Hell, I believe that a few of us sent him logs of her behavior here.
12:11 <@rhia> so, grown up core group with kids v con back on the biggest kids candy haul night -- oh, nope, no conflicts there
12:11 <@rhia>  /sarcasm
12:11 <@wilpig> rhia: she has another name.  Dagmar recognized the original pre-name change
12:11 <@benthemeek> I just mean I think perhaps it is a conclusion to jump to that Dru is picking anarchival over the community. He is trying to run a con and she is doing a lot of work for it and helping. He just needs help, he isnt analyzing his sources
12:11 <@oddball> benthemeek: He's either bent over backwards to make excuses, or straight up told us we were lying.
12:12 <@oddball> She's also driven away a shit ton of help.
12:12 <@rhia> wilpig, ahhh ...
12:12 <@wilpig> rhia: fwiw she was supposedly friends with becky
12:12 <@oddball> wilpig: OH really? ok.  Didn't know that.
12:12 <@CRasH180> rhia, gives candy crush a whole new meaning
12:12 <@wilpig> Dagmar: ping fucker
12:12 <@rhia> wilpig, "blinks"
12:13 <@CRasH180> anyway. I am heading to the house
12:13 <@benthemeek> Well from his perspective from the outside I mean, it looks like some people with personality conflicts. Dru does not have a big online presence, if her behaviour there is in question he hasnt seen it for himself is my point
12:13 <@CRasH180> see you all later
12:13 <@wilpig> I'm running out to pickup lunch for the dc, later.
12:13 -!- CRasH180 [~CRasH180@pdpc/supporter/silver/CRasH180] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:13 <@rhia> well, just clicked the tab to check up on PN and wish good luck, etc since we are not flying in from Seattle for it
12:14 <@oddball> benthemeek: And as I've pointed out on the mailing list, there's been a lot of stuff done that was hidden from the people that have then been told "well, you could help."
12:14 <@oddball> There have been several unannounced meetings.
12:14 <@oddball> There is apparently a secret mailing list that is being used instead of the google group that Dru stated several times was the proper channel for PN org stuff...
12:15 <@benthemeek> I dont think thats true
12:15 <@rhia> unannounced meetings usually don't fare well for the entire group, secret mailing lists even less so
12:15 <@benthemeek> I mean the mailing list
12:15 <@oddball> benthemeek: bullshit.
12:15 <@rhia> but, good luck, hope PN survives
12:15 <@benthemeek> Dude I get copied on his email. Its just directly to me and the other officers
12:15 <@benthemeek> its not a mailing list or anything
12:15 <@benthemeek> and its all con planning
12:16 <@oddball> Right... including any announcement of these meetings that have been happening.
12:16 <@benthemeek> I think what needs to be decided after the con is what is the responsibilty of the officers to the group
12:17 <@benthemeek> because it was my understanding that the offers get elected and they make deisions and run the con.
12:17 <@oddball> And I spent most of the year under the belief that I was a director of the con, like I have for the past couple years... and because I was told by Dru that I was.
12:17 <@benthemeek> I didnt think that ever meeting or decision was floated to the group, it happens in the background
12:17 <@Bahhumbug> Fuck it.
12:17 <@Bahhumbug> http://stuff.gerdesas.com/se2600logs
12:17 <@GateKeeper> Title: Index of /se2600logs (at stuff.gerdesas.com)
12:18 <@Bahhumbug> If people want to see her bullshit, go crazy.
12:18 <@benthemeek> Then he dropped the ball by not inviting you to some of the planning meetings
12:18 <@oddball> Don't tell us to step up and help when you won't tell us when you're getting together to do the planning.
12:18 <@benthemeek> We talked about the website for like 4 or 5 meetings
12:19 <@benthemeek> when I say needed help I mainly meant that
12:19 <@oddball> And Dru told us that he had someone that knew what he was doing taking care of the website.
12:19 <@benthemeek> it was all talk and I ether didnt notice or didnt pay attention if wilpig offered and thats my bad
12:20 <@benthemeek> Those meetings were mostly talk and I was really worried things were not being done
12:20 <@shapr> SHAZAM!
12:20  * shapr hugs Shadow404
12:20 <@benthemeek> Then dru started including all the officers on a lot of the organizational emails he was doing and the officers at least were mollified
12:21  * shapr hugs klixa 
12:21 <@klixa> hey shapr
12:21 <@shapr> WASSUP?
12:21 <@shapr> I'm excited about moving!
12:22 <@klixa> when are you moving
12:22 <@shapr> Nov 7
12:22 <@shapr> to HUNTSVILLE
12:22  * shapr uses the echo effect to make that sound more awesome
12:22 <@klixa> im excited about my babies borthday, which is Friday, Halloween and the BEST THING HAPPENING FRIDAY :P
12:22  * brimstone unplugs shaprs mic
12:22 <@klixa> cause yeah, to my knowledge nothing else is going on that day
12:23 <@benthemeek> If I were to do analysis as to why some of the sunday / saturday meetings were not announced it would be that only a couple members showed up to the ones that were. Dru probaly forgot you wanted to be a director at that point since there were only the 7 of us or so coming to th emeetings
12:23 <@klixa> benthemeek man, just tell it like it is dru is a douche who likes an insane woman, and no one else is cool with this
12:23 <@benthemeek> But I dont think that klixa so I would be lying ;)
12:23 <@Bahhumbug> benthemeek: Bullshit.  More than one person offered.  More than one person was flat out ignored.
12:23 <@Bahhumbug> I get you like to play peacemaker.
12:24 <@Bahhumbug> But there is a time to get off the fence.
12:24 <@klixa> benthemeek only cause your brain has a built in sugar coating, that is so embedded even YOU dont know you are doing it o.O
12:24 <@benthemeek> who seriosly offered? If we are going to try to talk facts and the past I am okay with that
12:24  * brimstone hugs benthemeek
12:24 <@klixa> sugar coater*
12:24 <@brimstone> we're not all mean here
12:24 <@klixa> im mean brimstone
12:24 <@Bahhumbug> I'm an asshole.
12:24  * klixa punches brimstone 
12:24 <@brimstone> we're not all klixa
12:24 <@Bahhumbug> My meanness is enough for more than one person.
12:25 <@benthemeek> besides wilpig which I totally missed apparently the only other offer that I know of was Dagmar who mentioned at a meeting, "Hell I will make one if someone doesnt hurry up and do something"
12:25 <@Dolemite> Man, that was painful
12:25 <@Dolemite> Scheduled meeting for 2.5 hours and ended up being 3.5
12:26 <@Bahhumbug> That's two offers.
12:27 <@Bahhumbug> Were either accepted?  No.
12:27 <@Bahhumbug> Was the website a fucking abysmal failure?  Yep.
12:27 <@klixa> lol
12:27  * shapr tries to plug his mic in again
12:27 <@Bahhumbug> Note to anyone without a brain: remove the fucking installer.
12:27 <@benthemeek> oddball: Dru does everything over email and doesnt use social media etc. I don't think its an attempt to be secretive he just emails the people directly he wants
12:27 <@oddball> benthemeek: As far as I can tell, there were all of two meetings that were sort-of announced in the google group (which Bru continuous stated was the proper official channel for such things).  One in May, and one in May, and one in July.  I went to the one in May (the hotel walkthrough), but I missed the one in July do to other commitments.
12:27 <@Bahhumbug> When his filters don't eat everything.
12:28 <@benthemeek> By the time Dagmar offered (in a joking way I might add) we had the beta and it stayed beta far too long before going live
12:28 <@oddball> benthemeek: I'm talking about the fucking google group email list that he stated was the official way to do things.
12:28 <@Dolemite> benthemeek: Unfortunately Dru isn't responsive in email, either.  At least when he doesn't want to be.  I can attest to that.
12:29 <@klixa> why did he even want to be president of 2600? since hes so uninvolved
12:29 <@oddball> And yeah... Frankly, either his email filters are so fucked up that they should be considered completely broken at this point, or he lies about not seeing stuff.
12:29 <@benthemeek> I think he goes sometimes days without using a computer
12:29 <@Bahhumbug> I'm going with "lie" because mail... it's just not that fucking complicated.
12:29 <@oddball> Oh, and he lied to my face about emailing the Hypericon folks.
12:29 <@benthemeek> not recently but earlier
12:29 <@benthemeek> He swears he emailed that guy twice
12:29 <@benthemeek> we talked about this past meeting
12:29 <@oddball> Yeah... no.  He didn't.
12:30  * shapr has lost the mic cable
12:30 <@benthemeek> Perhaps it would be useful to catch someone in a lie
12:30 <@Bahhumbug> It's already been done.
12:30 <@Bahhumbug> You're hearing about one such incident now.
12:30 <@oddball> And I didn't realize until on the way back that the email addy he gave me was completely wrong.  So wrong, that I don't know where he thinks he got that email from.
12:31 <@benthemeek> So he was emailing a black hole you mean?
12:31 <@Dolemite> He may be getting his email through Sophrinix, who we proved last year had fucked up email filters because the mail server logs showed delivery receipts to his server, yet he constantly complained of never getting the emails
12:31 <@Bahhumbug> And bad addresses generally bounce.
12:31 <@klixa> if hes not a liar then hes incompetent as fuck, and either scneraio means he shodulnt be in the position he is in
12:31 <@benthemeek> So who will be klixa?
12:31 <@Bahhumbug> Amber!
12:32  * Bahhumbug slinks away
12:32 <@oddball> benthemeek: yep... and he failed to use the official hypericon email addy that was on our fucking websiter... or.. you know... contact me.
12:32 <@klixa> Bahhumbug lol
12:32 <@benthemeek> I mean he may not be great at tech but he has vision and connections
12:32 <@Dolemite> Bahhumbug: No, the norm per RFC is now to suppress invalid address messages as doing so makes it easy to blast a server and figure out what the valid addresses are
12:32 <@oddball> He has vision, yes... and he talks a great game.
12:33 <@klixa> benthemeek he has alienated all the people in HIS own group
12:33 <@benthemeek> and he is bringing it. Almost all the speakers that are coming and the activities he reached through his connections
12:33 <@klixa> that doesnt make up for ANY of his good traits
12:33 <@klixa> whatever they may be
12:33 <@Bahhumbug> My servers all bounce mail.  It's the way it should be done.  There are other ways to limit info disclosure, not bouncing mail isn't the way.
12:33 <@benthemeek> I could be president and I have 0 connections so as far as bringing things into the con what use would I be
12:33 <@benthemeek> There will be a whole group there this year thats never been before and thats exciting
12:33 <@shapr> my license expires this week, and I'm moving next week
12:34 <@klixa> benthemeek you dont have to have them yourself... the presidents job is to direct things...he coudlnt even get a website together more than a month before the actual con itself
12:34 <@klixa> hes sloppy and unorganised
12:34 <@Dolemite> benthemeek: A good leader isn't defined by what they can do - it's by what they can inspire others to do.
12:34 <@Bahhumbug> I think you misunderstand what an organization President is there for.
12:34 <@Bahhumbug> ^ that
12:34 <@klixa> Dolemite +1
12:34 <@klixa> yeah what Dolemite  said
12:34 <@Bahhumbug> And delegation to those that know how to do things.
12:34 <@benthemeek> I aggree with that.
12:35 <@Bahhumbug> And please keep the paranoid delusional crap out of it.  If you think everyones out to usurp your power you have other issues that need attending to.
12:35 <@benthemeek> tilghman said something this past meeting that I thought was interesting
12:35 <@Bahhumbug> More threats of legal action?
12:35  * shapr tries to usurp klixa's power
12:36 <@oddball> benthemeek: are you talking about the meeting that apparently happened Sunday?
12:36 <@klixa> shapr my power is un-usurpable...because its all in my mind!
12:36  * shapr fails to usurp
12:36 <@shapr> klixa: when you visiting this area again?
12:36 <@benthemeek> He was talking about the success of past cons. He said Scott was an excellent project manager and thats why his cons were so great, then came Trevor who is really management and more vision. Then came Tilghman who admitted he wasnt a very good project manager ether
12:36 <@benthemeek> less* manangement*
12:36 <@klixa> shapr i have no idea...i was gonna come in novemeber..but now that im pregannt  again i dunno if i wanna drive that much
12:37 <@shapr> aw, too bad
12:37 <@benthemeek> Wilbur pretty much did most of the work himself these past years, and now here we are struggling to find the balance of delegation/vision/managment or whatever
12:37 -!- kive_ [sid19953@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yqrgsrwlzznnpsys] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
12:37 <@Dolemite> klixa: When are you due?
12:37 <@klixa> Dolemite june 1
12:38 <@Dolemite> klixa: Oh, then you should come hiking preggers with us at GeekNIC!
12:38 <@klixa> im in first trimester morning sickness hell currently
12:38 <@Dolemite> Pregnant klixa might actually be slow enough for fat geeks to keep up with
12:38 <@shapr> ha
12:38 <@klixa> lol
12:38 <@benthemeek> oddball: Yes the officers meeting sunday
12:38 <@oddball> ok, just checking.
12:39 <@Dolemite> Trevor's absolute strength wasn't in vision so much as in marketing, but he has definitely improved his vision in the past several years, especially with SkydogCno.
12:39 <@oddball> By the way, I wasn't kidding when I stated in that email that they were literally whispering and passing notes so that me, Dagmar, and RangerZ2 couldn't hear.
12:39 <@benthemeek> Well it my opinion that his strength is the people/social connection at his con, but that he has to have good administrative people around him to help as well
12:40 <@benthemeek> (trevor)
12:40 <@oddball> yep
12:40 <@Dolemite> benthemeek: Yes, and he has that, because he does have the vision, now.  It's not perfect but SkydogCon is eating PN's lunch.
12:42 <@benthemeek> It wont this year
12:42 <@benthemeek> There is room for both I think
12:42 <@oddball> benthemeek: please know that those of us that are screaming about this here and on the lists are doing so because we do want the con to succede, and we really want to be wrong about how things are going.
12:42 <@benthemeek> Trevor and Dru's vision
12:43 <@benthemeek> I know that, and that why I am on hear trying to explain all of it
12:43 <@benthemeek> here*
12:43 <@klixa> there can be only one, dont you watch hilander
12:43 <@klixa> :P
12:43 <@oddball> Yeah... honestly, the big issue I have with Skydogcon is that he decided to start a competing con on top of PN.  It would have been great if he had set it at least a month apart.
12:44 <@oddball> Shit... that reminds me... I need to send another email to the list.
12:45 <@benthemeek> I was there I had a great time. It was really small this year though
12:45 <@benthemeek> phreaknic already has twice the prereg's than the those who were there
12:46 <@oddball> really
12:46 <@benthemeek> Yeah
12:46 <@oddball> That's good.
12:46 <@Dolemite> Is that counting the people that paid their annual Nashville 2600 dues?
12:47 <@timoguin> how small was SDC this year?
12:48 <@shapr> When I was introduced to JonnyX, he told me he organized a big con in Nashville. I asked him if he was skydog, he looked slightly miffed.
12:48  * shapr shrugs
12:48 <@klixa> lolololol
12:48 <@oddball> ha!
12:48 <@benthemeek> they had a tough year with Skydog's move/the loss of Robin's help (I think)/ and the pulling out of the sponsors a month before the con
12:49 <@oddball> The big cons in this town are GMX and MTAC.
12:49 <@benthemeek> There was an aquition and some other things that made it tough for the sponsors, but he says he plans to have that all rectified next year
12:49 <@timoguin> Ugh there are so many cons
12:50 <@klixa> cons are the new linux...5 million people reinventing the wheel
12:50 <@Dolemite> Don't forget GeekNIC!
12:50 <@oddball> Which used to be run by a complete slimball, but apparently the rest of the organizers finally had enough of his shit and threw him out on his ass.
12:50 <@Dolemite> We had um...   11 or 12 the last time, right?
12:50 <@benthemeek> Our groups arent known for getting fact time much
12:50 <@benthemeek> face*
12:51 <@Dolemite> oddball: MTAC ousted Mr. Self Important?
12:51 <@oddball> yep
12:51 <@oddball> Happeneda year or two ago.  I believe he's still "less than pleased."
12:52 <@oddball> Coincidentally enough, last year was the first year I attended GMX. :)
12:52 <@oddball> I would have gone this year, but.. uh... was testing for my third degree blackbelt that Saturday.
12:53 <@oddball> benthemeek: Since I'm an impatient bastard.  Do you know when folks are supposed to show up Thrusday for setup?
12:53 <@benthemeek> Dru is starting in the morning
12:53 <@benthemeek> I can't be there until the afternoon
12:54 <@oddball> So... whenever we can get down there.  OK.
12:54 <@benthemeek> officeal prereg starts at 5
12:54 <@benthemeek> and I have to have the sound system and stuff up to watch the movie at 9 pm I beleive
12:54 <@benthemeek> I am going to be scrambling
12:55 <@benthemeek> I also have my 8 pc gaming lab and a few other odds and ends I have to get set up in that time too
12:55 <@oddball> I still have the projector, since they scurried out early after doing some muttering at the last meeting.
12:56 <@benthemeek> Oddball: Would you elect Dru again if we pull this Con off and can get all this communication issues with his email straigtened otu?
12:56 <@oddball> Nope.  Don't trust him anymore.
12:57 <@oddball> Sorry... If the con is awesome?... maybe.
12:58 <@benthemeek> Well he really needs a spokes person (and not amber or someone who is at odds with the community). He has been workign really hard behind the scenes though
12:58 <@wilpig> if he wanted to fix the communication issues he'd have already done it
12:59 <@wilpig> there's be shit said this week even that he refused to acknowledge as even being said
12:59 <@wilpig> fuck him and the amber he rode in on
13:00 <@oddball> benthemeek: I've talked to him about the communications issues.  He refuses to address them.
13:02 <@wilpig> the landscape has changed in the last 18 years.  you can't rely on strict local word of mouth. the fact that I can scream out and put out doubt without him acknowledging I spoke is a silent admission
13:02 <@benthemeek> Do you mean the extra planning meetings?
13:02 <@oddball> I will say that he's done a hell of a lot better job of marketing than PN has done in the past.
13:02 <@wilpig> he's not saying "you're wrong and here's why" or even a "well i'm sorry you felt that way, here's what we're gonna do to address it"
13:02 <@wilpig> that's crazy pants
13:03 <@benthemeek> I think at some level we all know we can't make everyone happy.
13:03 <@oddball> benthemeek: The extra meetings, the lack of communication with the folks on this channel, the "vanishing" emails...
13:03 <@benthemeek> And perhaps his management style is ignore the critiscm and just move forward.
13:03 <@wilpig> and hitting twitter and facebook heavy for the month before the con is pretty thin for marketing
13:03 <@wilpig> that isn't helping him.  that's just making people like me that point out bullshit correct
13:04 <@benthemeek> Wilpig: he has been visiting a lot of other groups around nashville for months
13:04 <@wilpig> he didn't deny it, he didn't offset it,  he allowed it to exist to be correct
13:04 <@oddball> wilpig: No... he's been handing out flyiers and pimping the con at other conventions.
13:04 <@Dolemite> When Dru called me to act as intermediary between himself and Wilpig regarding the domain names, I told him that I would, but that he needed to start providing some outbound information to at a minimum the se2600 mailing list immediately.  That was what, 6-8 weeks ago?
13:05 <@oddball> To the point of physically handing flyers to everyone at the hacking 101 and 201 pannels at Dragoncon.
13:06 <@wilpig> advertising is good, it needs to be done.  advertising like that isn't planning, isn't leading, etc
13:06 <@NotLarry> wow, I had no idea we were putting hard drives in printers.
13:07 <@oddball> NotLarry: The big office ones? Yep.  They've been there for years
13:07 <@Dolemite> They've been in copiers for years
13:07 <@benthemeek> Well he isnt a one man show, he really needs a spokes person or secretary *sigh* who keeps everyone informed about what is going on. (I know I'm the secretary but I live 30 miles away and have a busy family schedule)
13:08 <@oddball> And that's one of the things that we've been complaining about.  He's completely failing on the deligation front.
13:08 -!- Warcop [~zadeaux@adsl-065-015-088-035.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit []
13:09 <@benthemeek> Well next year maybe we can remedy that
13:09 <@benthemeek> <--- Pollyanna
13:12 <@oddball> ok... enough of this blood pressure raising stuff.  need to run a couple errands.
13:17 <@Bahhumbug> Assuming there is a next year.
13:18 <@Dolemite> All I know is that if Rattle shows up, I fully expect him to approach Dru on Saturday night when he's good and drunk and tell him how much he's fucked everything up, because that was his signature move when I was running PhreakNIC.  Every.  Single.  Year.
13:20 <@Bahhumbug> I thought rattle said he was skipping this year?
13:20 <@Dolemite> He hasn't been in a few years
13:20 <@Bahhumbug> His cardboard mockup was present :)
13:20 <@Dolemite> But every year I rant PN, no matter how successful everybody else thought it was, he'd get drunk and at some point on Saturday night find directors to talk to about how badly they fucked up.
13:21 <@benthemeek> lol, did Rattle ever become an officer or director?
13:21 <@Dolemite> No, he never helped out in the first post-Dru era
13:22 <@Dolemite> His biggest contribution was the video of Skydog putting him into a sleeper hold for being a drunk asshole
13:26 -!- RangerZ2 [~rangerz@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
13:26 <@rattle> Sigh...
13:27 -!- RangerZ [~rangerz@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
13:27  * timoguin spars rattle
13:27 <@rattle> Yeah, I had a tad bit of a drinking problem back then.
13:27 <@rattle> Thanks for reminding me.
13:27 <@rattle> And now, I'm not making it this year.
13:27 <@Mirage_> Wife not letting you go?
13:28 -!- Mirage_ is now known as Mirage
13:28 <@rattle> Not exactly.  The wife will be giving birth to another one of my hell spawns in about two weeks.
13:28 <@rattle> So, I'm gonna be tied up for an extended period of time..
13:28 <@Dolemite> rattle: There are doctors that can fix that for you.  Best $10 co-pay I ever spent. ;)
13:28 <@timoguin> babies, man...
13:29 <@rattle> Haw haw haw..
13:29 <@timoguin> I just had one so won't be speaking for a while and am limited to two cons for this next year
13:32 <@wilpig> benthemeek: the only people that ever held office had to live in nashville or the surrounding area
13:32 <@wilpig> and those offices were purely for accountability for the nonprofit to make sure the money wasn't disappearing
13:33 <@benthemeek> Well they organize the con
13:33 <@benthemeek> its more than just managing money
13:33 <@wilpig> and in a perfect world so do nonofficers
13:34 <@wilpig> the officers were setup the manage the money aspect and have a place that the corporation was held liable
13:34 <@wilpig> period the end
13:34 <@benthemeek> You did a heck of a lot the past three years, to the point we (I) didn't realize all the stuff that needed to be done
13:34 <@wilpig> I wasn't an officer last year either
13:34 <@wilpig> so your premise of the officers organizing is bunk
13:34 <@wilpig> but your statement also says when I was speaking 6 months ago about what needed to get done and wasn't someone shoudl have bene listening rather than ignoring
13:34 <@benthemeek> we have had John/Jeremy/Amber at just about every meeting too
13:35 <@benthemeek> its not just officers
13:35 <@benthemeek> I agree that oddball should of been invited
13:35 <@benthemeek> the communication is a problem that needs to be fixed if the same people stay in power next year
13:35 <@wilpig> a single punch in the nose woudl fix many an issue
13:36 <@benthemeek> ;) and cause a bunch too.
13:36 <@wilpig> i'm fine with that
13:36 <@benthemeek> Would you deny that you and Dru arent the best of buddies?
13:36 <@wilpig> I was fine with dru until he pulled this shit
13:36 <@wilpig> it's 100% on his fucking end
13:36 <@wilpig> and the burden lies with him
13:37 <@benthemeek> by shit: you mean the website/hotel contract/different mailing list?
13:37 -!- kive_ [sid19953@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-adssdrradvpebbdm] has joined #se2600
13:37 <@wilpig> by shit I mean anything going on right now
13:37 <@Dolemite> The Officers for Nashville 2600 Corporation were in place to manage the non-profit corporation, and the primary goal of the President was to execute the vision of producing the annual conference, PhreakNIC.  Conference Directors != Nashville 2600 Officers, though you can have some people in both roles.
13:37 <@wilpig> the entire problem between he and I is purely a product of his fucking imagination
13:38 <@wilpig> it's very real now, but it started in his fucked up head
13:38 <@wilpig> or in crazy pants'.
13:38 <@wilpig> I was hosting sites and mailing lists for dru for nearly 10 years now but i'm suddenly untrustworthy?!
13:39 <@wilpig> ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!?
13:39 <@brimstone> you're untrustworthy because you moved to jersey and you like coke
13:39 <@benthemeek> ^+1
13:39 <@wilpig> brimstone: that goes without saying, but I liked coke before I moved
13:39 <@Mirage> and he's a ginger
13:39 <@Dolemite> Then there's the whole potential conflict of interest with Codex Labs and Andrew's position as Vice President.  It's possible that there's no official conflict, but there hasn't been any public dissemination of the controls put into place to avoid them.
13:39 <@benthemeek> ^+2
13:40 <@benthemeek> hmm what do you mean by that?
13:40 <@benthemeek> Condex labs is a sponsor
13:40 <@brimstone> they were in 2012 too i think
13:40 <@timoguin> yea
13:40 <@wilpig> brimstone: in 2012 he wasn't an officer
13:40 <@timoguin> I have a glass still!
13:40 <@wilpig> now he is
13:40 <@Dolemite> Yes, but in 2012 he wasn't an officer
13:40 <@Bahhumbug> It's a fucking conflict of interest.  Period.  There is no way that it can be seen as not being one
13:40 <@brimstone> Condex Labs is who's baby?
13:40 <@wilpig> brimstone: the vice president
13:41 <@Bahhumbug> McElroy's
13:41 <@benthemeek> Just what would the conflict of interest be
13:41 <@brimstone> who's the vp?
13:41 <@Bahhumbug> McElroy
13:41 <@brimstone> what's his handle?
13:41 <@benthemeek> that he can promote himself without actually paying?
13:41 <@wilpig> dink
13:41 <@benthemeek> It used to be Dink I think
13:41 <@Dolemite> Bahhumbug: Incorrect.  If Andrew recuses himself from any decisions which pertain to the presence of Codex Labs at PhreakNIC, then there is no COI.
13:41 <@Bahhumbug> Uh-huh
13:42 <@benthemeek> I assure you there is no conflict of interest, we need him and want him there
13:42 <@wilpig> I've been an officer and a sponsor simultaneously of phreaknic.  you know what influence I had over the event?  none.  I think wilpig.com appeared one place and that was it
13:42 <@Bahhumbug> You can paint this anyway you want.  Sitting officers should not have on-sight commercial ventures.
13:42 <@Dolemite> benthemeek: That's all well and good, but in the real business world, including non-profit corporations, that has to be documented.
13:42 <@brimstone> Andrew looks dutch https://www.codexlabs.com/assets/me-t-5f36ccb6d914ff63726360fbc98170a8.png
13:43 <@timoguin> Just as long as the interest is documented I see no problem.
13:43 <@benthemeek> Hes a good guy, but incredibly busy running his own company so you don't see him much except at meetings
13:44 <@wilpig> benthemeek: you wanna see dru have a puzzled look and be at a loss for words.  use this.  https://www.dropbox.com/s/8f67ioxugbr3hl1/Screen%20Shot%202014-10-29%20at%201.44.16%20PM.png?dl=0
13:45 <@benthemeek> timoguin: He bought the rest of the glasses we had in storage to destory them. He doesnt like the old logo. So you now have a collectors item :P
13:45 <@wilpig> that's a horrid waste
13:45 <@wilpig> that's also demonstrating a conflict of interest
13:46 <@wilpig> who outside the organization could have bought them outside the con in the interest of his compnay?
13:46 <@wilpig> he did that for his company using his influence as an officer
13:46 <@wilpig> yes?
13:46 <@timoguin> i imagine they would have been receptive if i said i wanted to buy them all.
13:47 <@timoguin> but maybe not
13:47 <@wilpig> it's possible, and we've had a store setup in the past but currently there isn't one
13:47 <@benthemeek> Yes there has been talk of an online webstore where we would sell old swag
13:47 <@wilpig> so he was an insider to the organization using that to the advantage of his company
13:48 <@timoguin> meh, who really gives a shit about old swag?
13:48 <@Bahhumbug> heh - webstore.  Make sure and use magento and leave the installer in place, again.
13:48 <@wilpig> nobody really.  
13:48 <@benthemeek> There have been claims made that people want to buy it
13:48 <@wilpig> there were claims by dru
13:48 <@wilpig> we use that shit as contest prizes and the like
13:48 <@benthemeek> it is only my opinion but its too much trouble to post and then ship
13:48 <@wilpig> people liek the old stuff but nobody will pay for it
13:48 <@timoguin> All I'd really care about is him being able to give some kind of prefential treatment as a sponsor
13:49 <@timoguin> which can be pretty easily kept in check if the interest is documented
13:49 <@wilpig> the pint glasses were an exception because they were highly useful
13:49 <@timoguin> i love my glass. it feeds me whiskey and coke or beer
13:49 <@benthemeek> Yeah they were nice
13:49 <@brimstone> timoguin: that's what my glass does too!
13:50 <@wilpig> timoguin: personally i'm against allowing any conflicts in, but they can be managed if documented and steps taken.  what's going on right now is just blindly ignoring it and outright denying it the rest of the time
13:50 <@wilpig> that's bullshit
13:50 <@benthemeek> hold on a sec I think thats a little harsh
13:51 <@benthemeek> if Codex was recieving extra speacil treatment I would agree
13:51 <@benthemeek> but they are just like any other sponsor any other year
13:51 <@wilpig> you just said you sold them old swag
13:51 <@wilpig> outside of the con, outside of any other store
13:51 <@wilpig> that isn't extra special treatment?
13:52 <@timoguin> maybe special. probably not extra special.
13:52 <@wilpig> and what was it sold for?  cost?  the $10 each we were selling them for?
13:52 <@benthemeek> He was asking about that before the elections this year. I can I buy the old glasses? and it wasnt until we went back out to storage 10 months later that we got them
13:52 <@wilpig> I asked about getting laid two years ago, does that make it matter more or less if it happens tomorrow?
13:53 <@benthemeek> point is it wasnt because he was speacil, it was because that they were essentually useless and cash for the con could be obtained for them
13:53 <@Bahhumbug> It wom't happen tommorow.  You're safe.
13:53 <@wilpig> but it was special treatment all the same
13:53 <@wilpig> and you also glossed past the price of said swag
13:53 <@benthemeek> Wilbur
13:54 <@benthemeek> I would wash your car and do your laundry if you sponsored us
13:54 <@benthemeek> whats the point
13:54 <@wilpig> because they were paid for already any money they generated was pure profit to the corp
13:54 <@benthemeek> We need sponsors
13:54 <@wilpig> I offered to sponsor, remember?  I had 2k set aside but was told they didnt' want my money
13:55 <@wilpig> 2k is enough to do most of the basic shit when you aren't spending a shitload on an overpriced venue
13:55 <@oddball> I really think that, without any actual special treatment, going after them for that is... petty.
13:56 <@wilpig> oddball: how many small things do you add up to equal special treatment?  where's the limit?  You might see this example as petty but what else will there be, whas has there been that you haven't seen?
13:56 <@benthemeek> Well the conflict of interest is a new one on me
13:56 <@benthemeek> I just didnt think anyone actually thought that, we never considered it. Perhaps some paper should be signed
13:56 <@wilpig> no it really isn't.  we've discussed it with you present on a few occasions
13:56 <@oddball> The buying of shwag is not really special treatment.
13:57 <@timoguin> it's petty. just document that an officer also runs one of the sponsoring companies and you're done
13:57 <@wilpig> outside of the con it is
13:57 <@benthemeek> shwag is not on inventory ether like the shirts are
13:57 <@wilpig> the glasses were supposed to be
13:57 <@oddball> Anyone can buy the shwag we have on hand, as far as I know.  They just have to ask.
13:57 <@wilpig> the rest of it isn't
13:58 <@oddball> Has there ever been a case of someone asking "hey! Can I buy [insert item] from con past?"  And the response hasn't been "uh... sure... if we've got any left."
13:59 <@wilpig> we've never sold old swag
13:59 <@wilpig> the glasses were the exception to that
13:59 <@wilpig> shirts are shirts
13:59 <@wilpig> generally we give old swag away
13:59 <@benthemeek> We need to stop carting around stuff from years and years ago
13:59 <@Mirage> wilpig: I think there were backpacks left long ago that Dolemite sold to whomever wanted them after the con
13:59 <@benthemeek> Im a big fan of giveaways
14:00 <@wilpig> that was at that con though, not the next year
14:00 <@wilpig> benthemeek: then give shit away, don't look at it like a secret hidden reserve of quick cash
14:00 <@Mirage> I thought it was leftovers after the con
14:01 <@benthemeek> If someone wants to try to generate money for the organization by selling it I don't think anyone should stop them
14:02 <@wilpig> Mirage: iirc before that con it was announced that some of that stuff was gonna be available and if you wanted to preorder you could get it personalized
14:02 <@Mirage> wilpig: yes, that was true too
14:02 <@wilpig> thinking there might hav ebeen some speaker swag that got sold off since they didn't show?  maybe there were a few bags extra just in case and they were sold at the con too
14:03 <@benthemeek> Anyways, in four days time we can all discuss the failures/successes of things this year. I don't know if this is helpful line of thought.
14:03 <@wilpig> can't wait to hear the excuses over the hotel bill
14:03 <@benthemeek> I mean debating about shwag
14:06 <@klixa> you dont think most hings are helpful that involve having an oppinion against something :P
14:07 <@wilpig> klixa: you have a vagina and therefore no opinion. :D
14:07  * wilpig hugs klixa 
14:07 <@klixa> lol
14:10 <@benthemeek> It occurs to me that swag does not have an "h" in it
14:10 <@benthemeek> .. and that I have been spelling it wrong all this time
14:11 <@klixa> schwaaaaaaag
14:11 <@benthemeek> swag = stuff we all get right?
14:12 <@klixa> benthemeek its slang to add the h
14:12 <@benthemeek> I have admittedly dont little research on this matter
14:12 <@klixa> ecucate yourself http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=schwag
14:13 <@wilpig> Mirage: I'm making more big files that you'll be interested in but not because of their size
14:13 <@klixa> benthemeek tldr both are right
14:14 <@Dolemite> I did have people ask about buying schwag from prior years, but typically I never had any left over to sell
14:15 <@wilpig> there isn't much now.  we had lots of water bottles for a while
14:15 <@Dolemite> The backpacks were as Mirage mentioned - personalized if you bought up front, and simply available first come first served at the end of the con
14:15 <@klixa> unless its a jansport i dont want it
14:16 <@wilpig> klixa: I still use mine to this day
14:16 <@Dolemite> Well I was always a little conservative with schwag numbers - and would advertise that it went to the first X attendees
14:17 <@wilpig> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bvcv9t84umbo1pw/2014-10-29%2014.16.39.jpg?dl=0
14:17 <@klixa> wilpig its missing pink glitter
14:17  * klixa wnats pink glitter on hers
14:18 <@klixa> i have 2 bags...both are  purple/blue...1 is a crumpler messenger bag and the other is a hemp backpack i found in mendocino
14:18 < aestetix> ok now I'm pissed
14:18 < aestetix> I suddenly have to do a favor for a friend of mine who has a small kid.... because someone she was relying on flaked
14:18 < aestetix> How the hell do you just flake on someone with a little kid?!?!
14:19 <@shapr> klixa: ooh, I figured out how to get LEDs on fingernails!
14:19 <@klixa> shapr are they solar powered?
14:20 <@shapr> hm, totally could be
14:20 < aestetix> I can't even begin to understand native Californians. It's like life will just kind of work out for them or something.
14:20 <@klixa> aestetix people flake...i dont think the circumstances matter really... and anytime you rely on someone else, you take the cjhance of them flaking on you
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14:20 <@klixa> what favor do you have to do
14:21 < aestetix> klixa: taking the kid to childcare for them
14:21 < aestetix> it's not a huge deal. it's just.... in my book, you make a committment that involves a kid, you fucking keep it
14:21 < aestetix> And I hate babies.
14:21 <@klixa> well i dunno why they arent kkeeping it
14:21 <@klixa> maybe somehting came up
14:21 < aestetix> klixa: this is california
14:21 < aestetix> they were probably just too lazy
14:22 <@klixa> people are no more likely to be lazy in cali than anywhere else
14:22 < aestetix> this is not true
14:22 <@klixa> i have lived all over... i see no real difference in people
14:23 < aestetix> klixa: also life in the bay area just sucks right now
14:24 <@klixa> how is it sucking
14:24 < aestetix> you should rename yourself to eliza
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14:25 <@opticron> aestetix, I'm the same way about any kind of commitment, if there's a likelihood that something is going to keep me from following through, I adjust or don't make the commitment because I'd rather not dick people over
14:25 < aestetix> opticron: yes
14:25 < CRasH181> What makes it so bad in the bay area?
14:25 < aestetix> I just have a thing about kids.
14:25 < aestetix> CRasH181: the wealth disparity. Which means people who are rich are less likely to care, and people who are not rich are increasingly depsarate
14:26 <@Dolemite> You mean other than the cost of living and lack of water?
14:26 < CRasH181> Oh, yes, understood
14:26 < aestetix> I mean it is $4 a gallon of gas here
14:26 <@klixa> aestetix its 3.50 elsewhere
14:26 <@klixa> anyway, thats why i left cali
14:26 <@klixa> i have the same income now but half the rent
14:26 < aestetix> heh nice
14:26 <@klixa> and everythign else is cheaper too...tho not as dramatic as rent
14:26 <@klixa> rent is the main thing that is so much in cali
14:27 <@Bahhumbug> What's 3.50 elsewhere?
14:27 <@klixa> gas
14:27 <@opticron> It's $2.70/gal here
14:27 < aestetix> well
14:27 <@klixa> where ar eyou opticron
14:27 <@Bahhumbug> $2.72 for regular here as of yesterday.
14:27 <@opticron> and $1.99 in louisiana right now
14:27 < CRasH181> yep, 2.77 here in Nashville
14:27 < aestetix> the lack of water is causing commodities to go up too
14:27 < CRasH181> Excuse me, 2.57
14:27 <@opticron> klixa, huntsville, where shapr is moving
14:27 <@klixa> im in nebraska...its over 3...
14:28 <@klixa> last time i saw a price it was 3.40-something
14:28 < aestetix> In fact one of my coworkers just resigned and took a job in seattle
14:28 <@Bahhumbug> Sucks to be Nebreska
14:28 < aestetix> Because he couldn't afford to live here anymore.
14:28 <@Bahhumbug> Or Nebraska
14:28 <@opticron> indications are that gas will be falling even further
14:28 <@klixa> well wehn i left cali gas was nearly 5
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14:28 <@klixa> hmmm, ok, gas ranges from like 3-3.40 something here
14:29 <@klixa> im in a suburb south of omaha, so looks like if i drive into omaha its cheaper
14:29 <@opticron> I saw 2.65 in chattanooga this past weekend
14:29 <@klixa> aestetix thats why i left...i coudlnt afford to be there anymore
14:29 <@klixa> well i could afford it... but i mean barely
14:29 <@klixa> no money left over after rent, food, etc
14:30 < aestetix> yep
14:31 <@klixa> my other option was live like my friend in oakland..he lives in the ghetto in an RV park, paying 500$ a month
14:31 <@klixa> but, i dont wanna live like that
14:31 <@Dolemite> I paid $2.79/gallon for mid-grade this morning.  It's $2.65/gallon for cheap stuff.
14:31 <@klixa> well, i guess my other other optipo was live in the desert pr wya up north, but theres no work there
14:32 < aestetix> my rent is $1100 a month. and that's because we got here early and have rent control
14:32 <@shapr> klixa: what are you doing for income?
14:32 < aestetix> otherwise it would be $2000 now
14:32 <@klixa> shapr my bf has the income not me...so me technially nothing
14:32 <@shapr> ah
14:32 <@klixa> aestetix 1100?!?!?!?! damn
14:32 <@klixa> aestetix my rent was 1800$....in martinez
14:33 <@klixa> which is 20 miles east of berkeley
14:33 <@klixa> so i was even out a little ways
14:33 <@klixa> aestetix i have a friend who lived in san frnacisco paying abotu $3000, they just moved to long beach, california to save money
14:34 < aestetix> yeah
14:34 < aestetix> we moved to oakland before the rents started to skyrocket
14:34 <@shapr> I used to pay $300 a month to rent a mid-sized house.
14:34 <@shapr> Nobody wants to live near the Arctic Circle.
14:34 <@klixa> i considered moving back down to LA, but i cant do the whole no tree thing anymore
14:34 <@klixa> dirt yards
14:35 < CRasH181> Love living in TN. Trees everywhere
14:35 <@klixa> humidity tho
14:35 <@klixa> i visited nashville last dec and was hot
14:35 <@klixa> lol
14:35 < CRasH181> Yeah, our weather has been messed up
14:36 < CRasH181> Yes, it is humid
14:36 <@klixa> i grew up there, its always been messed up
14:36 <@klixa> :)
14:36 < CRasH181> Just got back from Orlando, FL. We could breathe. OMG, it was wonderful
14:37 < aestetix> klixa: does life suck as much in nebraska?
14:37 < aestetix> it is absolutely terrible here
14:38 <@Dolemite> East TN has been quite nice
14:38 <@Dolemite> I suggest you all visit.  Come see the land of Dolly.
14:39 < CRasH181> Never been to Dollywood yet. Probably plan a trip out there next year
14:41 <@Dolemite> CRasH181: It's really fun if you liked what Opryland used to be.  A lot of newer rides there, but they also have some shows mixed in.
14:41 <@Dolemite> What we REALLY enjoy, though, is Dollywood Splash Country.  Excellent water park.
14:41 < aestetix> Dolemite: it is tempting
14:42 <@Dolemite> But since it's outdoors...   only open from Memorial Day to Labor Day
14:42 < CRasH181> Me and my family used to love to go to Opryland
14:42 <@wilpig> Dolemite: how much plenafil do you have to order for them to send you two free sets of the tools?
14:42 < CRasH181> Understood
14:42 <@Dolemite> Dollywood has the Grizzly River Rampage
14:42 <@wilpig> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s1lr4u335ezcotr/2014-10-29%2014.42.01.jpg?dl=0
14:42 < CRasH181> no way! I used to love riding on that!!!!
14:43 < CRasH181> Screamin Delta Demon was my favorite ride
14:43 <@Dolemite> wilpig: You simply have to ask.  They've tossed in free tools for me the last several orders, and I usually only buy 5 cases at a time.
14:43 <@wilpig> we got in I think 20 boxes of the plenafil and the buttons came in today
14:44 <@Dolemite> CRasH181: They have a new one this year called the Fire Chaser Express...  it's one of those go forward and then go backwards roller coasters...   two parallel tracks that launch at the same time so the cars are essentially racing each other
14:44  * shapr chases THE FIRE
14:44 <@Dolemite> wilpig: If you don't ask they don't usually add them in
14:44  * shapr throws fire into the Shadow of 404
14:44 < CRasH181> omg, that is awesome
14:44 <@wilpig> the removal tool is meh.  the punch is the win
14:45 <@Dolemite> CRasH181: We get season tickets every year - it's about the same price as buying 2 days admission
14:45 <@klixa> aestetix i like it here in nebraska... but im also not someone who does much... i dont go to clubs, shows, nothing... so i can be fine most places. I dont like expensive and crowded which is why i didnt like the bay
14:45 <@klixa> its not expensive or crowded here
14:45 < CRasH181> Understood. We do the same here with the Zoo. The Nashville Zoo is a good spot to take our almost two year old son. In and out for like 30 minutes to an hour and he is good.
14:45 <@Dolemite> Next month the grocery stores will start selling discounted season tickets for next year, and they'll let you go ahead and get in for the remainder of this year on them
14:46 <@Dolemite> CRasH181: We loved the Grassmere Zoo.  There's a nice one in Knoxville, but more expensive to join, so we haven't bothered since we already do the Dollywood parks.
14:46 <@klixa> aestetix i also like that when i go places, many houses and stores are decorated for halloween... the bay never seemed to do that much...ir xmas either
14:46 < CRasH181> Understood
14:47 <@Dolemite> CRasH181: Your 2 year old would be free at Dollywood, by the way
14:47 < CRasH181> It was $120 this year for Myself, Son, and Wife. Granted since he is under two he is free
14:47 < CRasH181> Right. Up until the end of December
14:47 <@Dolemite> I think Dollywood is free until 5
14:47 < CRasH181> Oh, wow!
14:47 < CRasH181> That is good news
14:47 <@Dolemite> Disney is Free Before 3
14:48 < CRasH181> Yeah, we had to skip Disney on this trip to Florida. Got to see lots of free stuff at Disney, but did not have the money to pay for the parks
14:48 < CRasH181> They are SOOOO expensive
14:49 < CRasH181> Need to change names
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14:49 <@Dolemite> CRasH181: Legoland is a great on for smaller kids, plus if you subscribe to LEGO Magazine, you'll get a coupon in one of the issues for a buy-1-adult-get-1-kid-free admission.
14:50 <@Dolemite> Legoland is in Winter Haven, where Cypress Gardens used to be
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14:50 <@CRasH180> Yeah, we did not have time to go to Legoland. I and my Son would have been in heaven.
14:50 <@CRasH180> Would have dropped some major bucks in there
14:50 <@CRasH180> Love, love, love legosd
14:51 <@Dolemite> My parents are snow birds - they live in Winter Haven during the winter, so we've got a cheap base to operate from when we go back
14:52 <@Dolemite> CRasH180: Well if you come to GeekNIC in March, Dollywod will be open then...
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14:53 <@CRasH180> Yeah, I don't know if we will be able to attend that. We are going to the ServiceNow conference in Las Vegas the following month
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14:53 <@CRasH180> It will be a bit too tight to do both
14:53 <@Dolemite> Yeah, I can see that
14:53 <@CRasH180> I want to go to GeekNIC though
14:53 <@CRasH180> Really, really want to go
14:53 <@Dolemite> EVERYBODY wants to come to GeekNIC!
14:53 <@Dolemite> It's the most popular not-a-conference around!
14:53 <@CRasH180> Yep
14:54 <@Dolemite> Seeing as how Notacon is now Nolongeracon
14:54 <@CRasH180> the unconference
14:54 <@CRasH180> lol
14:54 <@CRasH180> Well, it lived up to its name
14:54 <@Dolemite> * most popular within a 500 ft radius, research conducted unscientifically
14:55 <@CRasH180> Hmm, not a very wide area
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14:55 <@Dolemite> World domination has to start somewhere
14:55 <@CRasH180> hmmm, true
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14:57 <@Dolemite> Hahahaha, wilpig, you there?
14:58 <@Dolemite> You remember the whole article about the "discovery" of the "abandoned town" of Elkmont?
14:58 <@Dolemite> That was already the hike that I had picked out for GeekNIC.
14:59 <@Dolemite> I knew that I'd seen the trail maps for it, just couldn't remember if that was what I had planned or not.
15:17 <@oddball> Dolemite: Heh... nice.
15:17 <@wilpig> lol
15:17 <@oddball> I did like the park's response: "uh... it's on one of our trails... not exactly hidden.
15:17 <@oddball> "
15:30 <@Dolemite> Not only that, it's been an active preservation project for years
15:31 <@Dolemite> ok, time to head home.  Later, folks
15:35 < RangerZ1> thats like when they 'discover' the cities all up and down the Appalachians that are 'on fire' from the coal underneath the city having caught fire
15:35 < RangerZ1> I'm aware of 2 that I can think of, 1 in western PA and one in either wv or ky
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16:36 <@benthemeek> I wish I could un see some things
16:37 <@benthemeek> or unread in this case. I was reading through old logs of this channel that were posted to see the vitriol spewed
16:37 <@benthemeek> Not good.
16:39  * Dickie wiggles
16:39 <@timoguin> this channel has been like that for a looong time
16:40 <@benthemeek> I was referring specifically to the first three months of this year when anarchival was a frequent
16:40 <@benthemeek> I mean to be fair you guys gave as good as you got, but still not good.
16:40 <@klixa> >goes looking for vitriol >acts like he feels bad for finding it
16:41 <@benthemeek> ^+1
16:42 <@benthemeek> but its not an act. See there is thing called Phreaknic where I need people to play nice together .. :P
16:42 <@klixa> shes psycho and doesnt belong around other humans...shes lucky it wasnt face to face or i would have punched her
16:42 <@benthemeek> That all went on far too long
16:42 <@klixa> and fine >looks for vitriol >regrest finding it
16:43 <@benthemeek> ;) thats better
16:43 <@klixa> :)
16:43 <@benthemeek> How the morning sickness today?
16:43  * Dickie sets a series of small fires
16:43 <@Dickie> You're still pregnant?
16:43 <@klixa> benthemeek its horrble like every day :(
16:43 <@benthemeek> ugh. I cant stand the nauseated feeling. Can't imagine it never going away
16:44 <@klixa> i cant even use a black full sized ipad cause of last pregnancy..i see one and i get sick cause i used it while i had morning sickness
16:44 <@klixa> my ipad mini doesnt have that affect tho, nor do the white ones
16:44 <@benthemeek> klixa: that is quite an odd brain association
16:45 <@klixa> same goes for cilantro
16:45 <@benthemeek> I guess no more weirder than being unable to eat popcorn or $favoritefood after geting sick from it
16:45 < RangerZ> benthemeek: some good news for you
16:45 < RangerZ> http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/10/29/035253/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right
16:45 <@GateKeeper> Title: Pope Francis Declares Evolution and Big Bang Theory Are Right - Slashdot (at science.slashdot.org)
16:45 < RangerZ> lol
16:45 <@benthemeek> whoa
16:45 <@benthemeek> for realz?
16:45 <@klixa> pope francis has been compromosed by satan
16:45 < RangerZ> its really fucking weird/sad/wtf... when the catholic church is the most progressive major religion
16:45 < RangerZ> benthemeek: actually paull II did too
16:45 <@benthemeek> Dude he so has
16:45 <@klixa> also, evolution has been accepted by catholics for years
16:46 < RangerZ> john paul II*
16:46 <@benthemeek> yeah they had some of the best astronomical observatories in the world.
16:46 <@klixa> RangerZ im agnistic (aka not religious) and i think evolution is B
16:46 < aestetix> uh
16:46 <@klixa> BS*
16:46 <@Shadow404> wwooot
16:46 <@Shadow404> btw
16:46 < RangerZ> klixa: its ok, you don't vote
16:46 <@benthemeek> I find it funny how much we use to think them so primative in the evangelicalism
16:46 < aestetix> you guys do realize that the big bang theory was originally made by a catholic priest, right?
16:46 < RangerZ> so it doesn't matter what you think ;)
16:47 <@benthemeek> aestetix: not true! God did it
16:47 <@klixa> bog bang makes a hella lot more snese than evolution
16:47 < aestetix> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre
16:47 < aestetix> This is the guy who proposed it
16:47  * benthemeek tried not to hyperventelate
16:47 <@klixa> i mean, i dunno how we got here...but evolution is wrong , at least the current explanation
16:47 < RangerZ> aestetix: actually I wasn't aware of that, I knew several people were actually working on similar theory at the same time... but I wasn't sure who published first
16:48 <@benthemeek> klixa: agree to disagree ;)
16:48 < aestetix> but yeah all this shit about the Catholic Church accepting science
16:48 <@Shadow404> i got a fish sticker on my car with evution written inside the body
16:48 <@benthemeek> aestetix: I will take it
16:48 < aestetix> it's like you know where these theories fucking come from?
16:48 <@Shadow404> evolution
16:48 <@klixa> benthemeek i hate that phrase
16:48 <@benthemeek> any proscience news story from religion is a victory in my book
16:48 <@klixa> its usually said to mean "im right but i dont wanna argue with you" its a passive aggrssive phrase
16:48 <@klixa> never say it again :P
16:49 < RangerZ> benthemeek: catholic church says aliens probably exist too
16:49 <@benthemeek> hmm
16:49 <@timoguin> klixa: yea... agree to disagree
16:49 <@timoguin> about agree to disagree
16:49 < RangerZ> the vatican astronomer did a really good interview a few years ago
16:49 <@benthemeek> okay I dont agree with you klixa. I think evolution is amazing and well founded on good research and theory is almost religious in it self
16:49 <@klixa> and i think you are an idiot :)
16:49  * benthemeek hangs his head 
16:50 <@benthemeek> I know you do ;)
16:50 < aestetix> I mean there are things to criticize the church about
16:50 < aestetix> but claiming victory that they acknowledge a theory they originally proposed....
16:50 <@klixa> i want a peppermint mocha frappucino :(
16:50 <@benthemeek> Well lets look at the modern anti-vaccine movement...
16:50 <@klixa> i'm an anti vaxxer
16:50 <@klixa> :P
16:50 < RangerZ> we've proven _for a fact_ that micro-evolution happens, we now have natural bacteria that eat synthetic materials , which didn't exist 50+ years ago
16:50 <@klixa> i dont believe in evolution OR vaccines :/
16:50 <@klixa> its all a plot of the man
16:51 <@timoguin> I do not use VAX servers.
16:51 < RangerZ> VAX servers are the devil
16:51 <@benthemeek> klixa: Klixa agree to ...  I find vaccines very well researched and safe
16:51 <@klixa> i have a pic that says VAX SPACE that someone spelled in the utah salt flats with colored bottles and rocks
16:51  * opticron contributes to the solidarity against VAX
16:51 <@klixa> benthemeek they kill like 1 in a million
16:51 <@benthemeek> yep
16:51 <@opticron> I'd call that a win
16:51 < RangerZ> and thats really good
16:51 <@benthemeek> and sicken a vouple in a 100,000
16:51 <@klixa> yeah, well, i dont want to be that ONE
16:52 <@timoguin> well you're going to get ebola then
16:52 <@benthemeek> as opposed to being the one in an iron lung..
16:52 <@opticron> *aidsboli
16:52 < RangerZ> klixa is the reason we have to force parents to not be allowed to make decisions about their child's vaccinations
16:52 < RangerZ> :/
16:52 < RangerZ> sure... spread them out... so they don't get them all at once, thats just good science too... but get them...
16:52 <@klixa> im actually wiating
16:52 <@benthemeek> well as long as non vaccinators didnt interact with the vaccinated ...
16:52 <@klixa> they wanted ot do a HEP B vaccine on day 2
16:52 < aestetix> benthemeek: here is some ammo for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists
16:53 <@klixa> WHY THE FUCK DOES A NEWBORN NEED A HEP B VACCINE
16:53 <@klixa> answer that
16:53 <@klixa> they arent shooting up heroin and or having sex
16:53 <@opticron> I don't know, toddlers these days do pretty risky things
16:53 <@benthemeek> Klixa: there are many arguments here, and for what its worth I agree that some vaccines are too early.
16:53 <@klixa> benthemeek vaccinatyed kids cant get stuff
16:53 <@klixa> benthemeek the herd immunity is only for the weakilings who are too weak to get vaccines
16:53 <@benthemeek> I got my flu shot last week...
16:54 <@klixa> also benthemeek  ARE YOU VACCINATED? like in the past few uyrars
16:54 < RangerZ> klixa: hep b vaccine that early is not to do with the baby, but with the mother
16:54 <@klixa> cause immunity WEARTS OFF
16:54 <@timoguin> I actually went all through high school without getting hep vaccines
16:54 <@timoguin> all it took was my mom sending in a form declining
16:54 <@klixa> benthemeek whens the last time you had a pertussis vaccine?
16:54 < RangerZ> to protect the child from getting it from the mother while breast feeding
16:54 <@timoguin> never caused me any real trouble
16:54 < aestetix> benthemeek: but yeah. I find some of the idiot atheists just as annoying as the evangelical christians
16:54 <@klixa> RangerZ yeah but i dont have hep b and actually you cant get it form breastfeeding, only form birth
16:55 <@timoguin> and from tattoos. babies love tattoos
16:55  * benthemeek nods. Im just a science nut. I thoughly believe in vaccines just like I believe in chlorinating water and dozens of other practices that do the most good for the most people even at the expense of some casualtys
16:55 <@klixa> benthemeek when was the last time you had a pertussi vaccine?
16:55 <@klixa> pertussis*
16:55 <@benthemeek> no clue
16:55 <@benthemeek> I havent been to a doctor since I was a teen
16:55 <@benthemeek> but I give blood every two months
16:55 <@klixa> benthemeek ok, wel you are NON VACCINATED
16:56 <@klixa> so dont diss kids who ar enon vaccinated cause YOU are weakening herd immunity too
16:56 <@benthemeek> I am not the one bringing back whooping cough, measels, mumps and reubeala
16:56 <@shapr> but I AM the one bringing back SEXY
16:56 <@klixa> benthemeek you can be a carrier though cause you can catch it
16:56 <@shapr> klixa: hey, I'm bringing sexy back, want to help me carry it?
16:56 <@benthemeek> shapr: you are fabulous!
16:56 <@shapr> I KNOW!
16:57 <@klixa> shapr lol
16:57 <@shapr> and SO MODEST!
16:57 <@klixa> benthemeek who is bringing it back then? if UNVACCINATED people are bringing it back then yes you are
16:57 <@klixa> see, many adults diss parents who dont vaccinate their kids...yet these adilts themsleves ar enot vaccinated
16:57 <@klixa> so unless YOU , as an adult are vaccinated, you can all stfu about non vaxxed children
16:57 <@benthemeek> Its a good point klixa. however a lot of diseases could be completly wiped out (like small pox) if everyone did
16:58 <@klixa> then go get a vaccine for it benthemeek
16:58 <@benthemeek> most vaccinations occur in childhood
16:58 <@klixa> fight the good fight
16:58 <@benthemeek> I received all the ones available at the time
16:58 <@klixa> benthemeek THE WEAR OFF
16:58 <@benthemeek> no they dont
16:58 <@klixa> benthemeek yes they do
16:58 <@klixa> go read something
16:58 <@klixa> this is known fact
16:58 < RangerZ> hey good news... benthemeek has to lay down at night, and when he's about to fall asleep, he'll envision crazypants coming in here drunk and spewing hateful speech... and it will keep him up at night.... you ask how is that good news? b/c our "sleep ratio vs benthemeek" will go up
16:58 <@benthemeek> the strain mutates and thus people who dont vaccainte are a threat
16:59 <@klixa> benthemeek YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED
16:59 <@benthemeek> klixa: Do I sense yelling?
16:59 <@Dagmar> Uh... no they don't "wear off".
16:59 <@klixa> no, you sense me ephaszining certain things
17:00 <@Dagmar> Flu shots are only vaccines against certain, already known strains of the flu.
17:00 <@benthemeek> okay, well if any NEW vaccines for strains of things that didnt exist in  my childhood are availabel they yes i am unvaccinated in THOSE things
17:00 <@klixa> However, that immunity doesn't necessarily last forever. Those antibodies may fade away with time.
17:00 <@klixa> "After age 30 or so, the potency of immunity wanes," Wasserman says.
17:00 <@Dagmar> Polio and MMR vaccinations (properly applied) are for life.
17:00 <@klixa> http://www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/adult-immunizations
17:00 <@GateKeeper> Title: Adult Immunizations: Are You Protected? (at www.webmd.com)
17:00 < RangerZ> klixa: of course b/c your ENTIRE immune system starts taking a dump then
17:00 < RangerZ> lol
17:00 <@benthemeek> So I need to go get them again...
17:00 <@klixa> yes benthemeek
17:01 <@Dagmar> Only some of them.
17:01 <@timoguin> go to a minute clinic
17:01 <@benthemeek> But here is the thing, is that somehow a valid argument for not doing it in the first place?
17:01 <@timoguin> only takes a minute
17:01 < RangerZ> tetnis is the main one
17:01  * timoguin snickers
17:01 < RangerZ> tetnis(sp?)*
17:01 <@timoguin> it's tetris
17:01 <@Dagmar> Teatnus vaccinations are good for like ten years now
17:01 <@benthemeek> I thought that was from getting cut on rusty stuff
17:01 <@Dagmar> fuck I can't type it either
17:01 <@klixa> benthemeek no, that wasnt my point, my point was adult parents make a big deal about kids not getting them and then the,slves are part of the problem they are bitching about
17:01 <@Dagmar> t-e-t-a-n-u-s
17:01 < RangerZ> shut up aestetix
17:01 < aestetix> what
17:02 < RangerZ> just a pre-warning
17:02 <@timoguin> tetris is what you get when you drop too many rusty nails on your feed
17:02 < RangerZ> lol
17:02 <@klixa> so if you are gonna bitch about people not being vaccinated, then you better fucking be vaccinated yourself
17:02 <@timoguin> *feet
17:02 <@Dagmar> The easier way to avoid needing a tetanus re-vax is to not eat rusty nails
17:02 <@benthemeek> *snort*
17:02 <@Dagmar> Also, you can get tetanus shots pretty much at the same time they stitch you up
17:02 <@benthemeek> So on the same lines.... Hookworm. Have any of you heard about its affects on our immune system?
17:03 <@klixa> i want a peppermint mocha frappucino damnit :(
17:03 < aestetix> RangerZ: what did I do
17:03 <@benthemeek> apparently (sorry klixa) we coevolved with this thing over several hundren thousands years and now it MIGHT be why we have seasonal allergies and astma
17:03 < RangerZ> read what dag said right before I said that, thats all
17:03 <@benthemeek> there are several reputable institutions studing this now
17:03 <@klixa> my docot r told me i need a flu shot cause since im pregnant i coudl die if i got the flu
17:04 <@klixa> im so sick of fear mongerers
17:04 <@benthemeek> Think: taking away the wolves from yellowstone..
17:04 <@benthemeek> If our bodies are eco systems we have killed off some of the wildlife and things like our immune systema re hyper active now...
17:05 <@benthemeek> hence no seasonal allergies and certain  food allergies in the third world
17:05 <@benthemeek> Its called *drum roll* the hygenic hypothesis
17:05 <@timoguin> klixa: I think most of the flu concern is being vaccinated yourself so you don't give it to the newborn.
17:05 <@klixa> all tehse people with hand sanetiser are gonna die first
17:05 <@timoguin> never heard of "dying" if you get it during pregnancy
17:06 < RangerZ> klixa: yes, b/c of micro-evolution
17:06 <@klixa> timoguin people die during preganncy form getting it... but people die from all kinds of things all the time anyway
17:06 <@klixa> its not a significant percetage timoguin
17:06 <@benthemeek> yeah viruses are certainly evolve
17:06 <@timoguin> klixa: I'm sure. Just had never heard it.
17:06 < RangerZ> you're building an enviroment that has killed off all the weak bacteria, and only the strong shall survive *plays rocky theme*
17:06 <@timoguin> our OB didn't mention that at all
17:07 <@klixa> timoguin different people are different..i didnt even get prenatal care my last pregnancy
17:07 <@klixa> which was a year ago
17:07 <@klixa> so this is the only ob i have had
17:08 <@klixa> i said i had morning sickness and was offered pills...this ob is all about meds/vaccines
17:09 <@benthemeek> noone is interested in my hook worm stories...
17:09 <@klixa> i read your hook worm sory years ago
17:09 <@klixa> i also read that kids who DONT use hand sanitiser are healthier
17:09 <@klixa> and that eating dirt is healthy
17:10 <@benthemeek> and that c sections are not as good for babies because not enough fecal matter is transfered to the infant ...
17:10 <@klixa> having pets is healthier... basically a non sterile environment with exposure to germs is good
17:10 <@klixa> benthemeek i was just about to mention that
17:10 <@klixa> the unspoken truth of natural childbirth
17:10 <@klixa> lol
17:10 <@benthemeek> yeah thats new this year I think
17:10 <@benthemeek> I mean the study verifying it
17:11 <@klixa> i read it over a year ago
17:11 <@klixa> so its at least a year old
17:11 <@benthemeek> my concept of memory and reading gets out of wack
17:11 <@klixa> i woudl have read it right before having my baby
17:11 <@klixa> i was really concerned about that aspect of birth
17:11 <@klixa> but, i was in soooo much pain, i didnt care about or notice anything
17:14 <@Dagmar> benthemeek: I'd think the main reason there's fewer food allergies in the third world is because _those people die before passing on their genes"
17:14 <@Dagmar> _
17:14 <@Dagmar> Here, we look on non-survival traits as a "challenge".
17:15 < aestetix> Or wow
17:15 <@klixa> or nbecause they are starving and havent eaten those foods to develope antibodies
17:16 < aestetix> Ockham's Razor also comes from a catholic priest
17:16 <@klixa> i finally introduced peanuts to my baby... not allergic
17:17 <@klixa> one last food to try...nuts...and then she will have had everything...except shellfish...but im allergic to it, so not trying that until much later
17:17 <@Dagmar> Just assume she's allergic until a doctor says otherwise.
17:17 <@Dagmar> I've never heard of a _mild_ shellfish reaction.
17:18 <@klixa> tahts kinda what im doing..assuimg shes allergic
17:18 <@opticron> depends on how you define mild, my dad just feels like shit for a couple days
17:18 <@opticron> no crazy swelling
17:18 <@Dagmar> Peanuts are easy-mode.  If neither parent is allergic, a child bearing the intolerance is fantasically rare
17:20 <@klixa> our combined allergies are shellfish and penicillian
17:21 <@klixa> hen you have made up allergies, like gluten
17:21 <@klixa> EVERYONE is allergic to gluten these days
17:21 <@Dagmar> No they're not.
17:21 <@Dagmar> People are just contemptible.
17:22 <@klixa> Dagmar note how i said "made up allergies"
17:22 <@klixa> MADE UP
17:22 <@Dagmar> I prefer to think of them as "also allergic to fire".
17:22 <@Dagmar> I have a very simple test for that.
17:22 <@klixa> well fire can actually harm them tho
17:22 <@Dagmar> It involves a token amount of kerosene.
17:22 <@Dagmar> ...and then you say "PEOPLE CAN'T BE ALLERGIC TO BOTH GLUTEN AND FIRE"
17:23 <@klixa> lol
17:23 <@Dagmar> ...and meaningfully finger a zippo.
17:23 <@wilpig> dafghow much is a token?  cup? gallon? drum?
17:24 <@Dagmar> 4oz will do
17:24 <@Dagmar> Possibly less, but if you try buying kerosene "by the shot" there will be questions.
17:26 <@wilpig> "I'd like to purchase some kerosene"  how much do you need "enough to cure a gluten allergy"
17:28 <@klixa> when did facebook become a way for people to beg you for money?  /me needs to unfriend some peopel
17:29 <@wilpig> I've got one that does that constantly via gofundme
17:29 <@klixa> wilpig yeah, these people are using that too... one needed new brakes, one was forwarding their friends request for help with rent
17:29 <@klixa> i need to make one, for 1 venti peppermint frappucino :|
17:30 <@wilpig> this one is always asking for money for a lawyer because she's a broke ass.  it's for a good cause but damn
17:30 <@klixa> someone needs to refer her to "legal aid"
17:30 <@wilpig> her ex abused her kid and she finally got custody, etc and the guy is coming back now wanting visitation again and she's just straightout against it
17:30 <@klixa> if she has a serious issue and is broken, she can get free help
17:30 <@klixa> broke*
17:31 <@wilpig> they've exhausted those options.  she has an actual lawyer on retainer now just a mess
17:31 <@klixa> i think supervised visitation might be the best she can do tho
17:31 <@wilpig> not my problem, but I see it regularly
17:31 <@wilpig> someone else put one up asking for people to pay for them to go on vacation
17:31 <@klixa> or moving...or a time machine and not having a kid with an abuser
17:32 <@wilpig> right now she has sole custody and had a restraining order on the dude for a while.  
17:32 <@klixa> i dont like that these people think its everyone else's job to help them
17:32 <@klixa> when people dont help these people that i mentioned, they complain "omg, i cant beliebve no one has contribute dmoney" etc
17:32 <@wilpig> speak of the devil...  there it is again.  http://www.gofundme.com/gbemgk?fb_action_ids=10152421721351860&fb_action_types=og.shares
17:32 <@GateKeeper> Title: Team Soren by Danielle C Thrush - GoFundMe (at www.gofundme.com)
17:33 <@klixa> i already hate her
17:33 <@klixa> she started off with miscarriage
17:33 <@klixa> which is a bad thing that cant be proven or disporved
17:34 <@klixa> "i chose to get pregnant BUT PLEASE FEEL SORRY FOR ME for the financial burden it caused me"
17:35 <@wilpig> amanda didn't even start the thing some friend of hers did
17:35 < aestetix> is her last name hugandkiss?
17:35 <@wilpig> and the miscarriage did happen.  she was freaking out all last week about an ultrasound
17:35 <@wilpig> cubells
17:36 <@klixa> ok, then her friend sucks
17:36 < aestetix> I should get my name legally changed to Amanda Hugnkiss
17:36 <@klixa> ok, i read the abuse history... bitten once, and hit twice.... 3 incidents
17:36 <@klixa> i dont endorese abuse of any kind... but 3 incidents requires therapy?
17:37 <@wilpig> she's one of those alternative medicine people.
17:37 <@wilpig> hippie through and through
17:37 <@wilpig> she's good people though
17:37 <@klixa> 3 incidents tho... my baby just started walking and has fallen more severely than any of those incidents
17:37 < aestetix> uh
17:37 < aestetix> you mean homeopathic?
17:38 <@klixa> either they are leaving A LOT out, or they seriously dont know what abuse is
17:38 <@klixa> i know people who were abused... it was a daily thing
17:38 <@wilpig> aestetix: I mean hippie
17:38 <@wilpig> toes in the dirt, naked out in nature, hippie
17:39 < aestetix> ugh
17:39 <@klixa> ok, i gyess those are the only "documented" ones but not necesarily the only ones
17:40 <@klixa> anyway, it sounds like stuff is beinf exagerated...tho i wouldnt want my kid aorund that man either
17:40 < aestetix> you know
17:41 < aestetix> there is a reason we all live in houses now
17:41 <@wilpig> not my call or problem.  this is the third or fourth time i've heard about her legal troubles, so meh
17:41 <@klixa> i dont want anyone around my kid who looks at her mean :|
17:41 < aestetix> being naked in the desert and not bathing sucks
17:41 <@wilpig> klixa: i'm here, nowhere near you
17:41 <@wilpig> :P
17:41 <@klixa> :P
17:42 < RangerZ> " 2015 Symantec Fellowship Program. This is a one year fellowship for graduate students pursuing innovative research related to information security, storage and availability. It provides up to $20,000 USD that may be used to cover one year of the student's tuition fees and to reimburse research expenses incurred by the student." if anyone was interested in this...
17:42 < RangerZ> figured i'd share...lol
17:42 <@klixa> aestetix yes, it does
17:42 < aestetix> wilpig: do those hippies also not wipe after shitting?
17:42 < aestetix> because that's as natural as it gets
17:43 <@klixa> aestetix shut up
17:43 < aestetix> and you walk around naked followed by a trail of dingleberries
17:43 <@klixa> or fund my "i want a peppermint frappucino" camapin in gofundme and iw ill listen to whatever
17:44 < aestetix> oh I didn't see the gofundme
17:44 <@klixa> campagn campaign...however you spell that
17:44 <@klixa> aestetix i made it up
17:44 <@klixa> i dont have one
17:46 <@wilpig> i'm outta here.  should have left 45 minutes ago.
17:47 <@wilpig> systems engineer sent us a ticket that he couldn't ssh into a box.  I looked at the log and it's off
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17:57 <@benthemeek> $%$%###!!!!! Unity
17:57 <@benthemeek> I have this random bug where I lock my desktop and when I come back to my desk I have the login screen but no way to click the password field
17:57 <@benthemeek> Perhaps its time I went to mint or something
17:58 <@benthemeek> Ive used ubuntu since 7 though... :(
18:00 <@klixa> i want mint
18:00 <@klixa> peppermint
18:00 <@klixa> im having a STRONG pregnancy craving for a stupid peppermint mocha frappucino
18:00  * klixa cries
18:01  * benthemeek looks up peppermint vaccines
18:01  * klixa looks up ways to murder smartasses
18:02 <@benthemeek> probaly with one of your icky untreated virus'es you carrier you
18:03 < aestetix> ok so
18:03 < aestetix> I see the reason why someone might get married legally
18:03 <@klixa> benthemeek you are a carrier too
18:03 < aestetix> but I don't see why thye also need to throw a huge party
18:03 <@klixa> :P
18:03 <@klixa> aestetix tax breaks, and legal access to the child if you are the father
18:04 < aestetix> yes
18:04 < aestetix> but why do you need a huge fucking party
18:04 <@Dagmar> aestetix: Public declaration of fealty
18:04 <@benthemeek> aestetix: Well it has sort of gotten out of hand...
18:05 <@benthemeek> My wedding costs less that $500 in 2000, my friend went all out last year and did 50K +
18:05 <@klixa> aestetix cause people are weird
18:06 <@klixa> i dont have any friends...so i dont have parties anyway
18:06 <@benthemeek> I do not understand it. I will not be funding my childrens matrimonial parties.
18:06 <@benthemeek> at least not by much
18:06 <@klixa> weddings dont even need to be pricey..you just need a back yard, some balloons and a bbq
18:07 <@klixa> its not hard to bake a cake....its not hard to cook some food
18:08 <@benthemeek> +1
18:08 <@benthemeek> that was my wedding and it was funded by us and not our parents
18:09 <@klixa> i cant even afford a frappucino...
18:09 <@klixa> so i def wuld never have a 50k wedding
18:09 <@klixa> lol
18:09 <@benthemeek> I really like peppermint green tea
18:09 <@benthemeek> seriosly I would make you a cup if you were here
18:09 <@klixa> i iwhs i had any peppermint
18:09 <@klixa> wish*
18:10 <@klixa> mail me some
18:10 <@benthemeek> There is something about the after taste or something
18:10 <@benthemeek> but its my favorite of the hot teas
18:10 <@klixa> peppermint helps the stomache
18:10 <@klixa> im just sooooo sick of being nausteated
18:10 <@klixa> nauseated*
18:10 <@klixa> i stay in bed almost all day long...but i couldnt take being in bed all day today
18:10  * benthemeek holds klixa's hair while she pukes
18:11 <@klixa> but, my muth keeps filling up wiht that saltwater crap, andi feel queasy and i hate it
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18:11 < ShadowHntr_> hmmm
18:11 < ShadowHntr_> i kinda like this terminal app
18:11  * ShadowHntr_ hasn't used Enlightenment in AGES :)
18:11 <@klixa> actually i am gonna lay down... all i can think about is how sick i feel anyway
18:17 <@benthemeek> waiting... waiting for a backup tape to drop my file...
18:22 <@opticron> yeah...as far as wedding costs, mine's happening at an in-law's lake house and we're paying for everything outselves
18:22 <@opticron> *ourselves
18:29 < aestetix> benthemeek: how the hell can someone spend 50k on a wedding
18:29 <@oddball> Oh... that's actually damned easy
18:29 < aestetix> If you want to celebrate for a wedding, just have a bunch of friends over and make them each bring a 6-pack
18:29 <@oddball> Most places see dollar signs when someone says "wedding"
18:31 < aestetix> Given the state of the economy, I wonder how many of these weddings are paid for with credit cards
18:32 < aestetix> also a wedding is a singular event. it happens and then it's over. and you're out of 50k
18:35 <@oddball> Oh, an aweful lot of them are paid with credit.
18:35 < aestetix> That makes no sense.
18:35 <@oddball> Of course, it's also tradition for the bride's parents to pay for it.
18:35 < aestetix> I can see putting college tuition on a credit card.
18:35 < aestetix> Maybe.
18:39 <@benthemeek> aestetix: I have a low opinion of college education
18:39 <@oddball> Part of the cost ends up being to pacify the family by being presured into inviting fucking everyone.  Whether the bride and groom really know them or not.
18:39 <@oddball> I had what many folks would consider a fairly small wedding, and it was roughly 100 people.
18:40 < RangerZ> http://www.computerworld.com/article/2840555/hp-embraces-blended-reality-dives-into-3d-printing.html I'm kinda impressed its only 1700$
18:40 <@benthemeek> Maybe not for Med students, but to me never stop reading and reading things that are new and different to you seems infinitly better as far as education goes
18:40 <@GateKeeper> Title: HP embraces blended reality, dives into 3D printing | Computerworld (at www.computerworld.com)
18:40 < RangerZ> sorry 1900*
18:41 < RangerZ> if it did metal too, then even at 4k, it would be worth having if it lasted 10 years, for printing replacement parts for home use/etc
18:42 < aestetix> benthemeek: well yes
18:42 < aestetix> But it's a lot more explanable than a wedding
18:43 <@benthemeek> None the less I must interject that positive psychology studies have shown that experiences are what truly bring happiness over possessions or things.
18:43 <@benthemeek> Perhaps there is so validity to having a party and making it a time to rmemeber
18:44 <@benthemeek> But that doesnt have to be expensive
18:44 <@benthemeek> A friend of mine at work last week was annoyed that a neice was having a wedding wearing a red dress and carrying wheat as the flowers. I thought it was creative and fun
18:45 <@benthemeek> I guess gluten allergy people shouldnt attend though
18:45 < RangerZ> My cousin just had a great wedding, cost them total like 3k$, they held it at the reception hall
18:46 < RangerZ> it was very family oriented, family did a lot of the work, etc
18:46 <@oddball> benthemeek: heh
18:46 < RangerZ> (big irish family, so aka... a small army)
18:46 <@oddball> Oh, yeah... it can be done cheaply as well.  You just have to seriously work at it to keep the costs down.
18:47 < RangerZ> honeslty, it was the best wedding/reception I'd been to, b/c it was the most 'real'
18:47 < RangerZ> the family cooked all the food, etc
18:47 <@oddball> cool
18:47 < RangerZ> kinda reminded me of christmas when I was a kid, and we all went over to the lyden house
18:48 < RangerZ> there is a joke in there... but nvm... no one in here will get it
18:48 < RangerZ> lol
18:48 < RangerZ> (there is a dorm on campus back home called 'lyden house' too) ... yeah... bad joke
18:48 <@oddball> And there's some things, like our primary choice for the wedding location would have been a hell of a lot cheaper, but apparently you have to book camp site 1 at Montgomery Bell something like 3 years in advance now.
18:54 <@benthemeek> Well I will see you next week. TTFN
18:54 <@benthemeek> you all*
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21:21 < aestetix> uhhhh
21:22 < aestetix> RangerZ: why did Anita S say on twitter we should watch Colbert tonight
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21:29 <@klixa> my client is so fucked up
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21:44 < RangerZ2> aestetix: no clue
21:44 < RangerZ2> probably some feminist+ on there
21:52 < RangerZ2> http://venturebeat.com/2014/10/29/google-announces-project-ara-developer-conference-mountain-view-on-january-14-singapore-on-january-21/
21:52 <@GateKeeper> Title: Google announces Project Ara developer conference: Mountain View on January 14, Singapore on January 21 | VentureBeat | News Briefs | by Emil Protalinski (at venturebeat.com)
21:53 < RangerZ2> wilpig: signup and get me a project ARA dev kit ;)
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22:12 <@wilpig> heh
22:24 < RangerZ2> I'm not really kidding
22:24 < RangerZ2> I'd throw you the 50$ to cover the entry fee, lol
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22:34 < aestetix> http://www.randalolson.com/2014/10/28/the-age-divide-in-where-americans-want-their-tax-dollars-spent/
22:34 < aestetix> wow
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23:36 < RangerZ1> umm
23:36 < RangerZ1> wow?
23:36 < RangerZ1> thats politics 101
23:37 < RangerZ1> the only shocking part is that the babyboomers who benefited so much from cheap/free education aren't more in favor of it
23:38 < RangerZ1> but farmers who get 100ks of dollars in farm subsidies... will also rail against 'welfare' for the poor.... too
23:38 < RangerZ1> so it shouldn't be 'that' shocking
23:38 < RangerZ1> also "most important"
23:38 < RangerZ1> not "is this important"
23:49 <@oddball> Wait... it's shocking that, for the most part, people want the government to spend money to specifically help them?
23:51 < RangerZ1> also, more 65+ said that the #1 for the government is to spend money on defense & military than on social security
23:52 < RangerZ1> abut thats not shown easily by having a '65+' section'
23:52 < RangerZ1> etc
23:52 < RangerZ1> sorry equal
--- Log closed Thu Oct 30 00:00:17 2014