--- Log opened Sun Sep 21 00:00:53 2014
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04:57 < RangerZ> hmph ... looks like the Kate Daniels series semi-ended (an arc at least )
07:09 < aestetix_> RangerZ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZueOCLGt1tw
07:32 < RangerZ|Laptop> at worst, its sexism, not misogyny
07:34 < RangerZ|Laptop> albeit the two can definitely be  linked, but there is degrees of sexism, whereas I don't think you can by definition have degrees of misogyny..(can you?)
07:36 < RangerZ|Laptop> is it sexist to say I'd rather see a hot naked woman over a hot naked guy... I'd say no, is it sexist to say I'd rather play as a guy than a girl, if the plot revolves around deciding how the character should 'act' as 'real as possible' no, is it sexist to say I'm too dumb to know what the hell is going on in the ether inside women's minds... nope... just all facts, hehe
07:36 < aestetix_> that's not sexism, that's personal preference
07:36 < RangerZ|Laptop> yeah, but sarcesian conflates the two
07:36 < RangerZ|Laptop> and thats my point
07:36 < aestetix_> That's because she's an idiot
07:36 < RangerZ|Laptop> pretty much
07:36 < RangerZ|Laptop> holy fuck....
07:37 < RangerZ|Laptop> [On September 21, 2014, at 2:12 a.m., a visitor to the Vanderbilt campus was crossing 25th Avenue South at the intersection with Jess Neely Boulevard when a white male got out of his vehicle, tackled her, and seemed to attempt to force her into his vehicle.  The victim fought back.  A group of witnesses saw the assault and went to the victim’s aid.  The suspect got back into his vehicle and was last seen on camera driving 
07:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> know berkeley campus has a lot of problems just off campus... as does a lot of campuses
07:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> but shit... thats beyond even a mugging
09:45 < aestetix_> https://www.youtube.com/v/UtmmyQKBp8s
09:45 < aestetix_> http://store.steampowered.com/app/246070/
10:07 <@oddball> RangerZ|Laptop: Glad to hear that she fought back and didn't get in the van.  Chances are the next anyone would have seen of her was as a corpse in a ditch somewhere.
10:37 <@Corydon76_> Too bad the witnesses didn't get the license plate
10:38 <@Corydon76_> Or maybe they did, and Metro is out looking for him now
11:00 <@Wilpig> aestetix_: that's a neat concept for a game.  i'd like to see my nephews give it a go
11:38 <@oddball> THat is a neat idea for a game
12:19 < aestetix_> damn it where is ignotus
12:29 < aestetix_> oh man
12:29 < aestetix_> http://t.co/vkDrmfHzvJ
12:29 < aestetix_> you guys will love that comic
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13:37 <@Dagmar> This GamerGate stuff is stupid
13:37 <@brimstone> is that a new EA game?
13:37 <@Dagmar> What we should do to end it is start making and publicizing a list of _everyone_ guilty of censorship on their forums and lack of journalistic integrity
13:37 <@Dagmar> ...and then publicly boycott every bit of it
13:38 <@Dagmar> The one thing attention whores can't stand is a lack of pageviews
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13:57 <@oddball> I already do that with game review news... i don't read any of them. :p
13:58 <@Dagmar> It's looking like at this point that the SJWs are actually contracting DDoS services
13:58 <@Dagmar> ...because it's always cool to resort to crime when you can't silence your critics by shouting them down.
14:02 <@oddball> Oh, wouldn't surprise me in the least.
14:13 < aestetix_> so RangerZ1 when are you running for office
14:13 < aestetix_> I can register voterangerz.com if you want
14:15 < aestetix_> Dagmar: lack of journalistic integrity? Isn't that basically everyone who calls themselves a journalist these days?
14:22 <@Dagmar> Well, the people Zoe's been blowing for good press definitely lack it
14:22 <@Dagmar> ...and check out this whitewashing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy
14:22 <@GateKeeper> Title: Gamergate controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
14:23 <@Dagmar> ALthough this is almost entirely about journalistic ethics, the front line argument there is the SJW bullshit
14:23 <@Dagmar> Since fucking when was this about sexism/
14:36 <@oddball> Oh, the argument is that people are attacking Zoe because she's a girl.  Not that she's actually sleeping her way to the top.
14:38 <@Dagmar> No, there's the thing
14:38 <@Dagmar> The _counterargument_ is that people are attacking Zoe because she's a girl
14:39 <@Dagmar> The argument is actually that it looks a hell of a lot like she's sleeping her way to the top, or at the very least placing herself in the middle of a giant clusterfuck of a failure to maintain professional separation.
14:39 <@Dagmar> THey are taking advantage of their position in media to _redefine_ that argument and claim people are only picking on her because she's a girl.
14:39 <@Dagmar> There's where things cross a line I will not forgive.
14:40 <@Corydon76_> Fair point:  why did people attack her and not the journalist?
14:40 <@Dagmar> They _have_ been going after all the journalists.
14:40 <@Corydon76_> doxxing them and threatened the (male) journalists with rape?
14:40 <@Dagmar> InternetAristocrat alone has lain out enough smoking guns to equip a small invasion force
14:41 <@Dagmar> ...but they ignore the people like him, and merely focus on the inflammatory dickbags out there, who we all *KNOW* exist, and more importantly we all know they're simply a very disturbed minority case
14:41 <@Corydon76_> Uh, how do you know they're a minority?
14:41 <@Dagmar> Because they are a minority
14:42 <@Corydon76_> I won't dispute that they're disturbed
14:42 <@Corydon76_> Or at the very least, juvenile
14:42 <@Dagmar> How many people do you know (excluding Amber) who make it a habit of threatening to rape people?
14:42 <@Corydon76_> Dagmar: If given the veil of anonymity, too many, unfortunately
14:42 <@Dagmar> If they were a majority case, Twitter would literally see #rapeyouwithabottle trending four days out of the week
14:43 <@Dagmar> Even if you see a hundred of them a day, there's _hundreds of millions of people_ in the US alone
14:43 <@Corydon76_> All of whom I would classify as either juvenile or disturbed, but some of those acting juvenile are in their early 20s
14:43 <@Dagmar> At least 100,000,000 with internet access.
14:44 <@Dagmar> Sane people make a habit of regularly and reliably ignoring the fuck out of the trolls
14:44 <@Dagmar> GawkerMedia and the Zoe Clique are using them as a straw man
14:44 <@Dagmar> They should _know better_ for so many reasons
14:44 <@Corydon76_> Yeah, my last bout with one of those ended up with me on anti-anxiety pills
14:45 <@Dagmar> Allow me to suggest to you what makes me able to face down all sorts of things.
14:45 <@Corydon76_> Pot?
14:46 <@Dagmar> I don't worry about dark alleys, because I know the odds are heavily in my favor, that *I* am actually the most terrible and vicious thing in the dark.
14:46 <@Dagmar> If someone wants to threaten me with some stupid shit, I do not care
14:46 <@Corydon76_> That assumes that the person will actually face you
14:47 <@Corydon76_> Anonymity makes cowards into lions
14:47 <@Dagmar> Because the moment they show up, I will spread their organs around like so many butchers Christmas decorations.
14:47 <@Dagmar> Until that point, they're just another worthless shit amongst the crowd
14:47 <@Corydon76_> That assumes they don't attack while your back is turned
14:47 <@Dagmar> They'll get one blow and it better be fatal.
14:48 <@Corydon76_> That also assumes there isn't more than one.  Cowards often hunt in packs
14:48 <@Dagmar> Excellent.
14:48 <@Dagmar> More victims.
14:48 <@Dagmar> Packs of rednecks are what I generally expect, because they're chickenshit
14:48 <@Dagmar> I had plenty of time to get used to it in college
14:48 <@Corydon76_> But that's you and and your physical structure now.  Imagine being 100 pounds lighter
14:49 <@Dagmar> They get away with attacking single people because very few people are willing to rip out someone's eyes
14:49 <@Dagmar> Eyeballs pop with as little as 8 pounds of force
14:49 <@Corydon76_> Are you saying Zoe needs to be prepared to rip out eyes?
14:49 <@Dagmar> You don't defeat a pack of wolves by killing them all
14:49 <@Dagmar> You harm one or two so badly they are crippled with pain and the rest flee
14:50 <@Corydon76_> But you're also assuming that it eventually comes to an actual physical attack in the short term
14:50 <@Dagmar> I'm saying Zoe should shut the fuck up and face the fact that she's in the middle of a giant shitstorm directly caused by her involvement in an epidemic of a lack of journalistic separation
14:51 <@Corydon76_> The threats can occur for months, which affects your sleep patterns, which then affects how you perceive others in your company
14:51 <@Dagmar> If they claim to know the internet, they have no excuse for not ignoring the trolls
14:51 <@Corydon76_> Easier said than done
14:51 <@Dagmar> Instead they're focusing on the trolls, because it's a convenient blind for ignoring the actual issues
14:51 <@Corydon76_> Especially when you are the personal target
14:51 <@Dagmar> Boo hoo the world's a hard place
14:51 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: facebook forces legal names, and yet there seem to be no shortage of idiot lions there.
14:52 <@Corydon76_> Look, she had a relationship with a journalist.  There was no need to blow any of that out of proportion
14:52 <@Dagmar> She had lesser relationships with rather a _lot_ of journalists
14:53 <@Corydon76_> Now she's getting threatened with rape, and people are posting her home address everywhere
14:53 <@Dagmar> That whole group is downright incestuous
14:53 <@Corydon76_> The Wikipedia article mentions only one
14:53 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: she had relationships with people she was writing about without full disclosure.
14:53 <@Dagmar> Yeah, the wikipedia article is also exceptionally bullshit
14:53 < aestetix_> To me, that seems like conflict of interest, and calls into question all of her writing.
14:53 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: she's a game developer, not a journalist
14:53 < aestetix_> Oh, I guess I had it backwards.
14:54 <@Dagmar> ...and the "journalists" were doing reviews and promotion of her games and her projects, also with lack of disclosure
14:54 <@Corydon76_> Yeah, you kinda did
14:54 < aestetix_> That said, threatening someone with rape is never ok.
14:54 <@Corydon76_> There was ONE journalist she had a relationship with, and once they started the relationship, he avoided reviewing ANY of her stuff
14:54 <@Dagmar> They've not said a single word about these questions as to their ethics
14:54 <@Dagmar> They've just focused on "Oh no someone's making threats!"
14:54 <@Corydon76_> He avoided the conflict of interest.
14:54 < aestetix_> Ah, ok.
14:55 < aestetix_> So then what's the issue?
14:55 <@Dagmar> You can be selling fucking ice cream on the internet, and if you have a comments section, someone's going to call you Hitler eventually.
14:55 <@Corydon76_> Her ex-bf made a revenge post about it, and people lost their minds
14:55 <@Corydon76_> That's it.  That's the whole story.
14:55 <@Dagmar> That is one _tiny_ little part of this clusterfuck
14:55 <@Dagmar> It is *not* "the whole story".
14:55 < aestetix_> And instead of getting mad at him, for making private things public, they are mad at her?
14:55 < aestetix_> That sounds a lot like that NFL player's situation.
14:55 <@Corydon76_> The clusterfuck is how badly people lost their minds over it, especially when the revenge story was not true
14:56 <@Dagmar> No, the clusterfuck is that they're using it as an excuse to ignore the _actual issues_ people have been raising.
14:56 < aestetix_> Ok now I'm lost.
14:56 <@Dagmar> Perhaps you should go wade through the nearly two hours of details InternetAristocrat has spilled
14:56 <@Corydon76_> You mean the ex-bf?
14:56 <@Dagmar> Dude has been busy, and he's not the only one
14:57 <@Dagmar> I suspect perhaps InternetAristocrat would be _very angry_ that you are apparently suggesting he's her ex-boyfriend.
14:57 < aestetix_> Dagmar: if I'm goign to spend two hours listening to drama, it had better be in iambic pentameter.
14:58 <@Dagmar> That guy and several others have done a wildly more professional job of journalistic reporting than these so-called journalists in the Zoe Clique
14:58 <@Corydon76_> Dagmar: I really don't care to wade into another juvenile troll party
14:59 <@Dagmar> In return, these little shitbags have elected to try to rouse the internet hate machine in typical SJW style
14:59 <@Dagmar> Demonization and mischaracterization abound
14:59 <@Dagmar> Corydon76_: Then what precisely have you been doing for the last five minutes?
14:59 <@Corydon76_> Dagmar: explaining what the Wikipedia article says to aestetix_
14:59 <@Dagmar> I think he's perfectly capable of reading that for himself.
15:00 < aestetix_> Dagmar: but Corydon76_ makes a great filter
15:00 <@Corydon76_> Apparently, he had a fundamental misunderstanding
15:00 <@Dagmar> ...and what would that misunderstanding be?
15:00 <@Corydon76_> That she is a game developer, not a journalist
15:00 <@Dagmar> So?
15:00 <@Dagmar> She's definitely playing the media
15:01 <@Corydon76_> So does every other game developer
15:01 <@Corydon76_> It's called "marketing"
15:01 <@Dagmar> It's not called "marketing" when you've got a patreon site up, collecting donations from people who are writing articles about your work
15:02 <@Corydon76_> You don't think it's a HUGE conflict of interest when a game company throws a big party announcing a new game, where all the journalists get to partake in an open bar?
15:02 <@Dagmar> No, that's marketing
15:02 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: only if you deny them access to the next open bar if they don't give you good reviews
15:02 <@Corydon76_> And it's a conflict of interest that the gaming companies are buying stuff for the journalists who are supposed to be independent
15:03 <@Dagmar> When you later write articles about things without disclosing your _personal relationships_ with the subject, and vote your friends to the top of review boards so that they can then give you "gaming awards"... that's an "ethics clusterfuck"
15:04 <@Dagmar> ...and gaming "journalism" is definitely in "ethics clusterfuck" stage
15:04 <@Corydon76_> Dagmar: nobody was having an intimate relationship with the developer when they reviewed her games
15:04 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: did he review her games after their relationship broke off?
15:04 <@Dagmar> Yes, because a single day of separation makes all the difference in the world apparently.
15:04 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: Doesn't look like it
15:05 <@Dagmar> You are not in possession of anything like the majority of the information available
15:05 <@Corydon76_> Point to a reliable source.  How about no journalist in the gaming industry, since we've already established they're mostly ethics-impaired?
15:05 <@Dagmar> InternetAristocrat
15:06 <@Dagmar> He literally doesn't have a dog in this hunt
15:06 <@Corydon76_> And what is his real name?
15:06 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: legal
15:06 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: why does that matter?
15:07 <@Dagmar> aestetix_: Because he just switching to troll mode
15:07 <@Dagmar> https://www.youtube.com/user/InternetAristocrat
15:07 <@GateKeeper> Title: InternetAristocrat - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
15:07 <@Dagmar> Go learn.
15:07 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: I've been pointing out that people say all sorts of shit when they're hiding behind anonymity
15:07 <@Dagmar> Until then, your opinion on this subject is worthless
15:07 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: yes, but there is no evidence (I have seen) that makes people using a non-legal name MORE LIKELY to be douchebags.
15:07 <@Corydon76_> Opinion?  I'm asking for facts.
15:08 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: do keep in mind I am giving a talk about this exact topic next week, so I'm riled up about it ;)
15:08 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: If he walks around whatever town he lives in, and people refer to him by that nomenclature, that's fine.
15:08 <@Corydon76_> But I highly doubt it.
15:09 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: and that matters because....?
15:10 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: consistency
15:10 < aestetix_> His youtube account isn't a sockpuppet account, is it?
15:10 <@brimstone> i'm a sockpuppet
15:10 < aestetix_> Persistence is the word you're looking for. And I suspect that youtube account has plenty of persistence.
15:10 < aestetix_> Unlike some of the annoyances that are threatening rape
15:10 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: No, consistency
15:11 <@Dagmar> Please define "consistency" in this context.
15:11 <@Corydon76_> aestetix uses the same name IRL and online.  Dagmar uses the same name IRL and online.  That's consistency
15:11 < aestetix_> It sounds to me like you're suggesting that in order for his words to be taken seriously, he must use a name which persists across multiple contexts.
15:12 < aestetix_> No, that's persistence.
15:12 < aestetix_> Consistency would be if I used that name everywhere.
15:12 <@Dagmar> so you're essentially implying that this guy who's been working on YouTube with this name since 2010 is fake
15:12 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: If he emits libel or slander, he is known as a corporal being who can face down a lawsuit
15:12 <@Dagmar> Hm... so far, no lawsuits.
15:12 <@Dagmar> Imagine that.
15:13 <@Corydon76_> Dagmar: you can't sue a ghost
15:13 < aestetix_> Unless of course he's a robot that passes the Turing Test.
15:13 <@Dagmar> Yes you can.  You can very easily subpoena details about a personal IRL information from their YouTube account
15:13  * timoguin waves to critch
15:13 < aestetix_> You know, there's a lawsuit against Yelp of that very nature right now.
15:13 <@Corydon76_> That assumes their online account details are valid
15:13 < aestetix_> What does "valid" mean?
15:13  * timoguin waves to everyone else
15:14 <@Dagmar> Sup tim
15:14 < aestetix_> Please don't say "government issued"
15:14 <@Dagmar> If you have _proof_ or even _evidence_ then out with it
15:14 < aestetix_> If you mean attributable to an accountable entity, then sure.
15:14 < aestetix_> But that's different.
15:14 <@Dagmar> Otherwise, this is just another bullshit argument
15:14 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: corresponds to an actual person at a physical address
15:14 <@timoguin> Dagmar: just haxin' at CoderFaire
15:14 <@brimstone> timoguin: your tweets from CoderFaire sound interesting
15:14 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: and I imagine if he's posting things online, he has an ip address.
15:15 <@brimstone> or make CoderFaire sound interesting
15:15 <@timoguin> brimstone: this is my first time. it's a pretty good con.
15:15 <@timoguin> lots of language diversity
15:15 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: I imagine so.  And I can pay a Russian site for another IP that is out of reach of US subpoenas
15:15 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: yep!
15:15 < aestetix_> Or you can use Tor.
15:16 <@Dagmar> ...and you can much more easily just make up some unsubstantiated crap
15:16 <@Corydon76_> Dagmar: right back atcha
15:16 <@Dagmar> No, I actually watched the videos and double-checked details
15:16 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: is "InternetAristocrat" consistent, IYHO, with "internetaristocrat"?
15:16 <@Dagmar> I actually did some research
15:17 <@Dagmar> ...instead of just shooting off my mouth.
15:17 <@Dagmar> Because I *used* to have some respect for Gawker, but not anymore
15:17 <@Corydon76_> Dagmar: you did?  Did you actually travel to the area and interview people, or was this all online?
15:17 <@Dagmar> I would much have preferred this all be text, but I understand the times are a'changing and all that
15:18 <@Dagmar> No, I went and looked on the sites involved and compared names
15:18 <@Dagmar> But then, since all you're doing here is running your fucking mouth, you don't have the first clue what I'm talking about
15:18 <@Corydon76_> Nope.  I tend to try to stay out of all of that gossipy bullshit
15:19 <@Dagmar> Ah, but you're perfectly happy to jump right in when it's someone talking about the 0.0000001% of people on the internet who love to be dickbags?
15:19 <@Dagmar> What a great way to focus on the statistically irrelevant
15:19 <@Corydon76_> Maybe you can update the Wikipedia article with the facts when you're done.
15:20 <@Dagmar> Maybe it's been _locked_
15:20 <@Dagmar> See that little icon in the corner?
15:20 <@Corydon76_> Again, you're citing them to be a minority, and yet without having conducted a survey, you cannot possibly know
15:20 <@Dagmar> ...and perhaps there's been a rather epic campaign of _censorship_ going on, which makes all this even harder
15:21 <@Dagmar> Good luck promoting the idea that a _majority_ of internet users are psychotics
15:21 <@Corydon76_> Ah, yes, "the world is against the truth"
15:21 <@Dagmar> It's a wonder I've even made it through the morning without threatning to rape someone with a beer bottle
15:21 <@Corydon76_> But you, of course, are that special person who has managed to ferret it out
15:22 <@Dagmar> Yes, and we can say "the world is against the truth" because the people in question don't control enough of the media so that we can't actually find out just how much censorship has been going on in /r/Gaming
15:22 <@Corydon76_> Perhaps you can document this on a conspiracy blog for all to see
15:22 <@Dagmar> ...and we completely haven't seen the twitter messages and emails indicating precisely who has been ordering who to do what and why
15:22 <@Dagmar> Perhaps I could, and then perhaps someone like you could, I dunno, completely *ignore* it because it conflicts with their personal idea of what's going on under the sand.
15:23 < aestetix_> I have to admit
15:23 < aestetix_> This fiasco does not help the pr image of "gamers"
15:23 <@Dagmar> That fat bastard "Francis" even thinks this is utter bullshit
15:23 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: No, it really doesn't.
15:24 <@Dagmar> It's hurting the image of the gaming "journalism" sites even worse, but the people actually guilty of misdeeds a lot more than the rest
15:25 <@Dagmar> Fact: A lack of professional separation has turned the biggest names in gaming journalism into an incestuous ethical nightmare
15:26 <@Corydon76_> Uh, and it wasn't that way already?
15:26 <@Dagmar> Fact: Said names have done their absolute best not to correct the issue, but to cover things up and silence dissent through the use of censorship, misdirection, and shouting down.
15:26 < aestetix_> From what I can tell
15:27 < aestetix_> The ex-bf dramarag is the equivalent of the assassination of franz ferdinand for internettwitterland
15:27 <@Dagmar> Fact: Gamers come out in great number to events like PAX and GMX with an astonishing lack of raping
15:28 <@Dagmar> Fact: Isolated gamers in their homes are not easily able to rebut the idea that they're all a bunch of rapists, until they go to these events and see that the vast and overwhelming majority of gamers are quite reasonable people
15:28 <@Corydon76_> This story was never about rape, but about threatened rape in reaction to something
15:28 <@Dagmar> aestetix_: Pretty much, althugh I don't recall anyone still screaming "FOR FERDINAND" in the war that followed
15:29 <@Dagmar> This story hasn't been about _that_ for over a month, C.
15:29 <@Dagmar> Yet the "journalists" keep flogging it because failing to flog it means tey
15:29 <@Dagmar> would have to actually face the fact that they've abandoned their professionalism.
15:30 <@Dagmar> ...and becasue it takes a lot of attention and time for anyone else to actually look into the amount of bullshit that's been going on.
15:30 <@Dagmar> Classic troll bullshit
15:30 <@Dagmar> Make a specious argument that requires a drastically larger amount of time to properly rebut, then repeat until your opponents are exhausted.
15:30 <@Corydon76_> So this is a conspiracy by the journalists?
15:30 <@Dagmar> For extra credit, keep bringing up old points that were already rebutted, forcing the opponent to repeat themselves.
15:31 <@Dagmar> Are you even fucking paying attention?
15:31 <@Dagmar> Dude, you're not even qualified to get involved in this because you've not been paying attention beyond whatever's splattered out of twitter apparently.
15:31 <@Dagmar> Hell yes there's been a conspiracy
15:31 <@Dagmar> ...and a very bad one at that.
15:32 <@Corydon76_> Just want to make sure I got this right.  This is a massive conspiracy by the gaming journalists to shout down the truth that... somebody had a lapse of judgement
15:32 <@Dagmar> You've gotten about as far as "mammal" when we're talking about African Long-Necked Giraffes with that
15:33 <@Dagmar> It wasn't "somebody", it was a _lot_ of somebodies
15:33 <@Corydon76_> Versus that there was no lapse in judgement by journalists, just a bunch of juvenile gamers who went nuts over a revenge post by an ex-bf
15:33 <@Dagmar> So again, and this is the last fucking time I'm bothering to say it, the "journalists" are focusing on that, endlessly
15:33 <@Corydon76_> That's the two sides, in a nutshell, right?
15:33 <@Dagmar> That bit was over a month ago
15:34 <@Dagmar> The journalists literally _created_ the actual story when they circled their little wagons for a cover-up and began having posts deleted
15:35 <@Dagmar> The censorship part of GamerGate is a hundred times larger than some butthurt jackasses doxxing
15:36 <@Dagmar> Through their own actions, they've taken "questionable ethics" and turned it into an ongoing demonstration of "moral decrepitude"
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15:39 < aestetix_> Corydon76_: I think "juvenile" is an understatement.
15:41 <@Corydon76_> aestetix_: I try to give people credit for not thinking through their actions beforehand, as opposed to being actively psychopathic
15:48 <@Dagmar> I'm just gonna leave this right here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum#Straw_man_argument
15:48 <@GateKeeper> Title: Reductio ad absurdum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
15:49 <@Dagmar> There's a further refinement which specifcally addresses obsessing about a single, only poorly related aspect of a problem, but at the moment I don't fucking speak latin.
16:12 <@Wilpig> copy copy copy
16:12 <@Wilpig> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
16:12 <@Wilpig> diskpig:/volume1/media
16:12 <@Wilpig>                        37T   11T   27T  29% /media3
16:13 <@brimstone> what's project total Used?
16:14 <@Wilpig> right about 13T
16:14 <@Wilpig> roughly a third with plenty of room for growth
16:14 <@brimstone> almost done!
16:14 <@brimstone> i've almost filled my 12T :(
16:15 <@brimstone> 9TB apparently
16:15 <@brimstone> :(
16:15 <@Wilpig> once I started adding 720 and 1080 content it sucked down that free space quickly
16:15 <@brimstone> no kidding
16:15 <@Wilpig> I've gotten spoiled by how nice it looks though
16:15 <@brimstone> i try to 1080 movies, and just HDTV tv shows
16:16 <@brimstone> some shows are all 720 though
16:17 <@Wilpig> I have a few shows in 1080 but they are exceptions to the rule.  stng, since it was released on bluray after being remastered.  doctor who.  under the dome.
16:18 <@brimstone> i need to find an 8 or 12 bay whitebox case that's whisper quiet
16:19 <@brimstone> then fill that with 4TBs
16:19 <@brimstone> also need to wait for 4TBs to come down a little in price
16:20 <@Wilpig> we just got a 12 bay case in at work today that I didn't hate
16:20 <@Wilpig> whatever zt systems is using 
16:21 <@Wilpig> the drive doors didn't feel cheap, I am a little worried about how springy the latches are though
16:21 <@Wilpig> I pressed the release button and I think the drive jumped out of the slot a hair
16:21 <@Wilpig> with no locks on the latches i'm afraid we might bump into them at some point and unseat a drive
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16:33 <@Wilpig> interesting.  http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-runs-on-21-raid-proof-virtual-machines-140921/
16:33 <@GateKeeper> Title: The Pirate Bay Runs on 21 "Raid-Proof" Virtual Machines | TorrentFreak (at torrentfreak.com)
16:34 <@brimstone> i wonder how the loadbalancer talks to the other VMs?
16:35 <@Wilpig> not sure.
16:36 <@brimstone> tor, vpn, something else?
16:36 <@brimstone> autossh...
16:36 <@brimstone> i had heard that their loadbalancer runs completely out of ram though
16:36 <@Wilpig> could be plain tcp
16:36 <@Wilpig> just ssl wrapped and nobody would be the wiser
16:37 <@brimstone> i wonder how frequently they rotate servers
16:37 <@Wilpig> from the way it was reading they don't have to
16:37 <@brimstone> i wonder if they counter traffic monitoring at the load balancer isp
16:38 <@Wilpig> just the front end whatever that currently has the domain pointed at it
16:38 <@brimstone> if you do massive amounts of traffic to a few other IPs on a pretty reasonable basis...
16:38 <@Wilpig> with so many cloud based backup services etc these days.  it would be hard to really isolate them from anyone else
16:41 <@Dagmar> For extra luls they could just be distributing the updates via a stream of torrents
16:41 <@oddball> Ok... watching Sons of Anarachy, and this episode features the guy that plays Boyd Crowder on Justified as... a tranny prostitute?
16:41 <@Dagmar> *gasps*
16:41 <@Dagmar> HATE SPEECH HATE SPEECH BURN HIM!
16:41  * oddball sets Dagmar on fire
16:41 <@Dagmar> HE HATES THE TRANSGENDERED!
16:41 <@Wilpig> @fire oddball 
16:41  * GateKeeper sets fire to oddball with the flames of a thousand suns
16:42 <@oddball> Or possibly just a cross dresser... not sure.
17:04 < RangerZ|Laptop> oddball: you're not allowed to use the term tranny
17:04 < RangerZ|Laptop> you have to use trans now
17:05 < RangerZ|Laptop> because they had a meeting of every old tranny, and they got together at a convention center and passed a Tranny Constitution 18th Amendment, renaming the Constitution to Trans, and forbidding anyone from using the word tranny
17:06 < RangerZ|Laptop> ohh what? there wasn't a giant meeting like that? its just what some people decided others should say? what about those people who took pride in being called a tranny before? ohh ok, I didn't realize they didn't count anymore, glad we can discriminate against their 'wrong' viewpoint about themselves (yes, the dan savage situation is BS, lol)
17:08 <@oddball> yep
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--- Log closed Sun Sep 21 18:51:32 2014
--- Log opened Sun Sep 21 18:52:43 2014
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19:53 <@oddball> I've been informed I'm not allowed to make this for our first born: http://www.cavemancircus.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2014/september/awesome_pictures_2/awesome_pictures_10.jpg
19:57 <@Shadow404> and why not? would of been more interesting than the one i attended yesterday
19:59 <@Wilpig_> Shadow404: you're allowed to be around children?!
20:08 <@Shadow404> its a trial basis
20:09 < RangerZ> the court isn't really sure if its a good idea...
20:34 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: http://steamcommunity.com/app/274920/discussions/0/613936039561113132/ heheh hehe heheheheh heheh
20:34 <@GateKeeper> Title: Eyes are always closed :: FaceRig General Discussions (at steamcommunity.com)
20:35 <@oddball> Clearly, the game is racist.
20:36 <@Dagmar> You think this is some kinda motherfuckin' game?
20:36 <@Dagmar> heh
20:37 <@oddball> Oh, so... with the Gamergat thing... the wikipedia article says that now there's proof that Zoe wasn't sleeping her way to the top?  Am I catching up on things properly?
20:37 < RangerZ> thats not as bad as HP's "facial recognition" that didn't recognize Blacks
20:38 < RangerZ> oddball: nope
20:38 <@Dagmar> Whether she was sleeping her way to anywhere is pretty much a miniscule point by now
20:39 <@oddball> Ah, so the wikipedia page was last edited by someone that doesn't have correct info/is blind to the facts.
20:39 <@oddball> ok... so your issue is how people are mud slinging over this?
20:39 < RangerZ> oddball: the entire gamergate thing has been imploded by 2 factors, 1) the other side is _literally_ PR companies... 2) The gamergate side wasn't very good at compiling arguments that were binding, only 'this smells like shit'
20:39 <@Dagmar> IA had deets on a conversation she had with her boyfriend about sleeping with other people
20:40 <@Dagmar> I could care less that she was cheating on her boyfriend
20:40 <@oddball> RangerZ: OK... which is "the other side" and which is the "gamergate side?"
20:40 <@Dagmar> That would be the "Gawker" side, basically
20:40 <@Dagmar> ...and the "everyone else on the internet" side.
20:41 <@oddball> ok... see... that doesn't actually answer the question.
20:41 <@Dagmar> It is a huge and broad-sweeping mess
20:41 < RangerZ> gamergate is people who think its BS that all this collusion is going on, and has now been labelled as 'mysogynists haters of women'
20:41 < RangerZ> the other side is sarcessian, quin, and the lady from the PR/marketing firm that most of the drama actually surrouns
20:42 <@Dagmar> It's the problem I was talking about earlier.  There's serious issues of journalistic ethics in play, and rather than address those, the response is "GAMERS ARE ALL HATE FILLED RAGE WOMEN HATERS"
20:42 < RangerZ> think of this as OWS all over again
20:42 <@oddball> ah... ok.
20:42 <@Dagmar> The censorship issue, particularly on Reddit, was _dreadful_
20:42 <@Dagmar> They weren't nuking people bashing Quinn.
20:42 <@oddball> RangerZ: You mean where a bunch of "we're here to protest... uh... something!" folks showed up?
20:42 <@Dagmar> They were nuking literally every single post discussing _any_ aspect of it
20:42 <@oddball> gotcha
20:42 <@Dagmar> Thousands and thousands of posts and threads
20:42 < RangerZ> gamergate = OWS => both had good points, and were demanding action.... and then marketing/PR/politics were used to say the people in "that group" were bad/evil/etc
20:43 < RangerZ> discredit the messanger to discredit the message
20:43 <@Dagmar> RangerZ++
20:43 <@Dagmar> Probably why they can't touch people like IA.  He's not fucking around at all
20:44 <@Dagmar> There's no speculation in the dirt he's been dishing
20:45 < RangerZ> THEN... fucking ultra-right wing libertarian conservatives like Jayne from Firefly got into it and decided that it was a great chance to say how "politically correct" the "liberal coastial media is forcing us to be"
20:45 < RangerZ> Adam Baldwin* thats his name
20:45 <@Dagmar> It's also somewhat disturbing to know just how many of those journos seem to think their twitter feed is somehow a secret
20:45 <@Dagmar> Baldwin was pissed, and for good reason
20:45 < RangerZ> yeah, but thats not the problem
20:45 <@Dagmar> The double-standards the journos were demonstrating.  Shessh
20:46 < RangerZ> he himself wasn't a huge problem, b/c he's been trained how to handle himself in public... lol
20:46 < RangerZ> but OTHERS... saying stupid shit
20:46 < RangerZ> making the ENTIRE thing look bad
20:46 < RangerZ> etc
20:47 < RangerZ> basically, the same problem with OWS, is that they didn't elect a representative that was teflon slick
20:48 < RangerZ> distributed control = failure in a political movement
20:48 < RangerZ> its too easy for the other side to label EVERYONE the same as '1' person in the group
20:48 <@Dagmar> ...which is why it's pathetic that the journalists have focused on _exclusively_ carping about that vocal minority of dickbags, and declaring that to be the entire "story"
20:49 < RangerZ> so you _plant_ someone to say some <insert bad thing here> comments (racist/sexist/etc)
20:49 < RangerZ> and there you go
20:49 < RangerZ> or just fucking wait...
20:49 < RangerZ> b/c it was reddit/4chan
20:50 <@Dagmar> You'd think these people were born yesterday by the way they react to the trolls.
20:50 <@Dagmar> Seriously.
20:50 <@Dagmar> We got death threats on a regular basis at 91.
20:50 <@Dagmar> Big fucking deal.
20:50 < RangerZ> its almost like they planned it out, and had a single person start coming to a group of meetings, sowing discord, then convincing one group of people that everyone else was out to get them, and convincing them that they needed to stop talking to the rest of the people... Almost like someone planned it...
20:51 <@Dagmar> lol
20:51 < RangerZ> its fucking insergency 101
20:51 < RangerZ> insurgency*
20:51 < RangerZ> and honestly, thats basically how you do it online too
20:51 <@Dagmar> This is text and will give you a small part of the idea of how complex the whole thing is http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/09/04/gamergate-a-closer-look-at-the-controversy-sweeping-video-games/
20:51 <@GateKeeper> Title: GamerGate: A Closer Look At The Controversy Sweeping Video Games - Forbes (at www.forbes.com)
20:53 <@Dagmar> ...and oh look, Forbes giving clearer and fairer coverage than all the gaming sites combined.  Imagine that.
20:53 <@Dagmar> A publication that generally has fuck all to do with gaming, actually doing research and finding out that Denmark smells.
20:58 <@Bahhumbug> And yet there are still people living in boxes.  You know, just sayin'
20:59 <@Bahhumbug> (I'm not knocking your involvement and stance on this, Dagmar, just that all the waves this is making is somewhat ridiculous in the grand scheme of actual real world issues facing people.)
20:59 <@Dagmar> Yes, well, I'll worry about that when it becomes appropriate for gaming journalism to be worrying about third world welfare
20:59 <@Dagmar> I'd no more expect Golf Digest to run articles on the subject.
21:13 < RangerZ> well
21:13 < RangerZ> forbes knows that gaming > movies
21:13 < RangerZ> its hard for a lot of people to 'get'
21:13 < RangerZ> but its true
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21:23 <@oddball> Oh... great idea... use a girl "with special needs" as bait for a rapist, and then don't come to her rescue:
21:24 <@oddball> http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/20/us/alabama-school-rape-lawsuit/index.html
21:24 <@GateKeeper> Title: Lawsuit: Victim of alleged school rape was used as bait - CNN.com (at www.cnn.com)
22:18 <@brimstone> Wilpig_: what'd you pay for your 4TBs? pic.twitter.com/n8hUmSscjH
22:19 <@Wilpig_> $169 each
22:37 <@oddball> Oh, Wilpig_, did I tell you that I gave up on running those drives as a RAID and I'm just running them as a JBOD?
22:37 <@Wilpig_> nope
22:38 <@oddball> Apparently those cheap drives really aren't spec'd to keep in time well enough for RAID.
22:39 <@Wilpig_> well that sucks. but I guess it makes sense
22:40 <@oddball> So... my plan is to run them like this until I upgrade the Linux box again, at which point they'll go internal and I'll buy RAID certified drives.
22:41 <@oddball> I briefly thought about running a software RAID, but was tired of fooling with it.
22:41 <@Wilpig_> can you fake it with mdadm while they are running jbod?
22:42 <@oddball> Probably, but see the previous statement. :)
22:43 <@oddball> So... instead of having a 9TB partition, I just have 4 3TB partitions. :)
22:47 <@Wilpig_> that works
22:47 <@oddball> Oh, do I remember correctly that you're now using Plex?
22:48 <@Wilpig_> yar
22:48 <@Wilpig_> plex.wilpig.org
22:49 <@oddball> 'doh, that's right
22:49 <@Wilpig_> it's currently running like ass cause of this file transfer but yeah it's there
22:50 <@oddball> Someone was telling me that they were having stability issues with Plex with high media file count.
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23:06 <@Wilpig_> The only weirdness i've seen with it is with the way I have my folders setup it loses shows occasionally when I add content to them
23:07 <@Dickie> I HAVE CREATED LIFE
23:07 <@Wilpig_> dickie, I saw.  i'm scared
23:07 <@Dickie> MY OFFSPRING WILL BE LEGION
23:08 <@Bahhumbug> Congrats?  I think?
23:09 <@Dickie> YOU'RE WELCOME
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23:28 <@oddball> Wilpig_: How big is your media directory at this point?
23:28 <@Wilpig_> 12T ish
23:29 <@Wilpig_> it's broken up into four directories.  movies, movies.hd(720, 1080), tv, tv.hd
23:29 <@Wilpig_> the tv shit is mixed both standard and hd in both directories
23:31 <@Bahhumbug> I don't see pr0n mentioned in that.
23:31 <@Wilpig_> yeah pr0n.  I had that once
23:41 < RangerZ|Laptop2> congrats Dickie
23:43 <@Dickie> ty :D
23:44 < RangerZ|Laptop2> no dripping acid this time?
23:44 < RangerZ|Laptop2> we've heard your spawn has a tendency to do that
23:45 < RangerZ|Laptop2> lol
23:45 <@Dickie> This one drips black tar
23:45 <@Dickie> I changed his first poop diaper
23:45 <@Dickie> It was unreal
23:45 < RangerZ|Laptop2> lol yeah...
23:46 < RangerZ|Laptop2> first pee in the face is going to be like acid...
23:47 <@Dickie> I've been told you pull down the diaper, let the air hit him, then put the diaper back up to catch the wee-wee
23:48 <@Dickie> My daughter didn't give me much trouble in that department
23:48 < RangerZ|Laptop2> I have no spawn, but changed enough cousins' and thankfully I never had that exact 'experience' either
--- Log closed Mon Sep 22 00:00:54 2014