--- Log opened Wed Aug 27 00:00:08 2014
--- Day changed Wed Aug 27 2014
00:00 < aestetix> RangerZ|Laptop: have you ever heard a girl make a *ungh* grunt noise before you heard a poo sound?
00:00 < aestetix> wow ok actually don't answer that
00:00 < RangerZ|Laptop> honestly i'm not going to say one way or the other, b/c I don't really consider this an appropriate topic, since it has _nothing_ to do with tech/science/nerdness/etc
00:01 < aestetix> man that is gross
00:02 -!- aestetix was kicked from #se2600 by Bahhumbug [Enough already - your trolling is crude and without thought and you should be ashamed]
00:02 -!- aestetix [~aestetix@173.203.197.247] has joined #se2600
00:02 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: maybe you should add that to the code of conduct
00:03 <@Bahhumbug> It's already in my CoC - "Don't Be A Dick".
00:03 <@Bahhumbug> You violate it all the time.
00:03 <@Bahhumbug> If you're going to troll at least put some effort into it.
00:12 <@Dagmar> Cobra Mk. III obtained.
00:19 < aestetix> wow feminist frequency is annoying
00:20 < RangerZ> ?
00:20 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7Edgk9RxP7Fm7vjQ1d-cDA
00:20 < aestetix> she apparently has a podcast where she bitches and whines about things
00:20 < RangerZ> ohh well its HER
00:21 < RangerZ> of course it is
00:24 < aestetix> she seems to be upset that some games have rape in them. Not that the game has you raping a woman, but that some games have it in them, regardless of context
00:24 < RangerZ> Anita Sarkeesian is.... well one of the central figures in the "indie game dev" / "Game Media" incest going on latley
00:24 < aestetix> oh?
00:24 < aestetix> I thought it was just that Zoe
00:24 < RangerZ> oh no...
00:24 < RangerZ> she's just the one who was sleeping with guys
00:24 < RangerZ> if it was JUST her, then other game sites might have talked about it
00:25 < RangerZ> its an entire 'clique(sp?)' of people out there in SF
00:25 < aestetix> what has Anita done?
00:25 <@Bahhumbug> Meanwhile people are still dying of Ebola; kids are still going to bed hungry and families are living in cars.
00:25 < aestetix> besides these annoying podcasts
00:25 < aestetix> dont' forget about ferguson
00:25  * Bahhumbug thinks people need to get their fucking priorities straight.
00:25 < aestetix> and ISIS
00:25 < RangerZ> she does almost-fox-news-level of mis-use-of-information
00:25 < aestetix> and the income inequality issues
00:26 < aestetix> and the issues with data brokers
00:26 < aestetix> and the comcast/twc merger
00:26 < aestetix> but yeah Bahhumbug removing sexism from video games is more important
00:26 < RangerZ> I completely agree that we need more 'real/strong' women in video games
00:27 < aestetix> The thing is, I'm watching this video, and all the instances of rape/sexism seem to be enacted by the "bad guys"
00:27 < RangerZ> BUT... I also agree that video game manf. should target their target audience
00:27 < aestetix> I'd think if there were a game where there's a rape happening and you can point a gun at the guy doing it, that's a good thing
00:27 <@Dagmar> I have committed genocide for far less.
00:27 < RangerZ> the stat that 45% of "gamers" are female is kinda bogus b/c that includes .... farmville and solitaire...
00:27 < aestetix> I'm also wondering if she actually played through all these games
00:28 < RangerZ> aestetix: nope
00:28 < RangerZ> thats another issue with her
00:28 < RangerZ> she's been caught in a bunch of lies
00:28 < RangerZ> saying she's a gamer, and being recorded saying "i don't like video games, b/c I don't want to shoot people"
00:28 < aestetix> uh
00:28 < aestetix> WHAT?!?!
00:28 < aestetix> tell her to play portal 2
00:28 < RangerZ> or ... any 4X game ver
00:29 < RangerZ> ever*
00:29 < RangerZ> see... the "damsel in distress" part of her first video I thought was actually compelling
00:29 < RangerZ> b/c I agree that it is good when characters like Samus turn out to be female
00:29 < aestetix> I kind of want to make a game that features her with a penis now
00:30 < RangerZ> Spoiler btw
00:30 <@Dagmar> Floppy Bird?
00:30 < aestetix> hahahha
00:31 < RangerZ> but, she then basically said "i'm from the bay area, and you people shouldn't be as concerned with what you are as with what I say, and there are bigger issues in society to solve , and we're working towards those"
00:31 < aestetix> oh fuck she's from the bay area?
00:31 < RangerZ> i mean... she's totally not like aestetix at all
00:31 < RangerZ> LOL
00:31 < RangerZ> sorry... was too easy
00:31 < aestetix> I am confused
00:32 < RangerZ> pretty much _everyone_ in the gaming media/indie dev scene is from there right now
00:32 < RangerZ> b/c if you aren't ,... your game doesn't get coverage
00:32 < RangerZ> Machinama, Rev3 games, IGN , they are all in SF
00:32 < aestetix> so I'm confused still
00:32 < aestetix> what is she saying?
00:33 < RangerZ> she basically holds the exact same opinion as you do about her issues .. as she does on other issues, but she thinks this is her issue to help solve
00:34 < aestetix> so everything besides her feminism crap is not important?
00:35 < RangerZ> 'everything' i dunno, but she thinks that her issues are the most important
00:35 < RangerZ> but I don't think your "this isn't an important problem to solve" arguemnt is truely valid here, b/c helping to stem systemic sexism/racism is a good thing, but I think she isn't be pragmatic about it
00:35 < aestetix> uh
00:35 < RangerZ> and I think thats the root cause of a lot of problems, is people not being pragmatic, and instead being absolutist
00:35 < aestetix> yep
00:36 < RangerZ> if she had stopped with her 1st video, and copped up to not being a gamer
00:36 < RangerZ> then she wouldn't have caused her 'early' drama
00:36 < aestetix> what is her early drama
00:36 < RangerZ> THEN she could have made a series of videos explaining (with good actually meaningful citations) , examples of sexism in gaming
00:37 < RangerZ> the 'early' stuff was her being caught lying about being a gamer
00:37 <@Bahhumbug> How is any of this relevant?
00:37 < RangerZ> and using stills in her first 'major' video from twitch streams
00:37 <@Bahhumbug> I mean... seriously.
00:37 <@Bahhumbug> I am not trolling here; I just don't get it.
00:37 <@Bahhumbug> It's not as if this is important in the grand scheme of things.
00:38 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: things like this, I like to undersatnd in the same way that you want to know what a land mine looks like so you don't step on it
00:38 <@Bahhumbug> If someone can summarize an answer to that in 100 words or less I would love to see it.
00:38 < RangerZ> she has a lot of power in group-think decision making right now in parts of media, and other things
00:38 <@Bahhumbug> And how does this affect _me_?
00:38 <@Bahhumbug> or _you_ for that matter?
00:38 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: if I can get a better undersatnding of her and how she works, it creates an archetype model that helps me avoid future idiots like her more quickly
00:39 < RangerZ> probably doesn't unless you play video games , or like constructive journalism
00:39 <@Bahhumbug> Ok, that I can understand.
00:39 < aestetix> I don't actually care about the drama, per say
00:39 < RangerZ> but again, this is 'video game' journalism
00:39 <@Bahhumbug> I play games on occasion.  I don't see how this is relevant to my game playing.  Looks like more fucking internet drama for publicity.
00:39 < aestetix> RangerZ: sure, but her archetype is present in things besides gaming.
00:39 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: exactly.
00:39 <@Bahhumbug> But I readily admit I don't understand it.
00:39 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: for example, let's say I decide to collaborate with someone who later does some shit like this.
00:40 < aestetix> Undersatnd the archetype helps me to say no to the collaboration
00:40 <@Bahhumbug> As I said, that I can understand.
00:40 < aestetix> ok
00:40 <@Bahhumbug> But that's a corner-case, really.
00:40 < RangerZ> same, I don't really care about her drama either, I'm just aware of it, and think that if she (and others) would be more hospitiable to differing views, we COULD actually have constructive discussions about real world issues, like sexism in media
00:40 < aestetix> RangerZ: except they don't and won't.
00:41 < aestetix> They're basically taking a valid cause and reappropriating it to get fame.
00:41 < aestetix> They're a variant of an archetype I call "social vampires"
00:41 <@Bahhumbug> And again, ebola, kids not eating, families in cars, etc.  I think peoples world-views are so fucking narrowly constrained that they just don't see this for what it is.  Irrelevant.
00:41 < RangerZ> but... I think the part that people 'know' but don't want to admit is... that it makes financial sense to be sexist (by her overly-broad definitions) b/c of the target audience who will buy the games she's talking about
00:41 <@Bahhumbug> Sexism is an issue, but it's kinda low on the totem poll in my world.
00:41 <@Bahhumbug> And I am not a sexist in any way, shape nor form.
00:41 < RangerZ> its like what Dagmar is always says... corporations are a-moral
00:42 < RangerZ> so they will do what it takes to make money
00:42 < RangerZ> thats all
00:42 < RangerZ> Bahhumbug: same here, I'd LOVE for there to be more female CS students
00:42 < RangerZ> (yes yes.. aestetix insert joke here)
00:43 < RangerZ> but i'm not going to be upset if they don't apply
00:43 <@Bahhumbug> I'd LOVE to see kids eating three squares a day and sleeping in a bed with a roof over their heads.
00:43 <@Bahhumbug> That's more important to me.
00:43 < RangerZ> ^
00:43 <@Bahhumbug> Sexism?  Nope.  Not interested until real issues are solved.
00:44 < aestetix> Well actual sexism is a big deal.
00:44 < aestetix> But most of the stuff people harp on about isn't really sexism.
00:44 < aestetix> For example, being turned down for a job for no reason other than being a woman.
00:45 < aestetix> But a stray comment on twitter, come on
00:45 < RangerZ> or having to be 23y/o and have a super ass... to be an intern at aestetix's job
00:45 < RangerZ> lol
00:45 < aestetix> that's not sexism, that's admiration
00:45 <@Bahhumbug> Yeah, I don't consider that sexist.
00:45  * Bahhumbug points to Hooters.
00:46 <@Bahhumbug> Not getting hired because you have boobs?  That's an issue.
00:46 <@Bahhumbug> But again, low down on the totem pole in my universe.
00:46 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: yep
00:46 <@Bahhumbug> I think people just need something to bitch and moan and cry over and this is the issue of 2014.
00:46 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: I work on nym issues and such because it affects me.
00:47 < aestetix> I'm fine supporting people on other issues, but I'm not going to run a phone bank over them
00:48 <@Bahhumbug> I don't get the whole nym rights thing, either.  But I'm quite a few years older than you (from my understanding) and I'm sure that affects my views on this.
00:48 < RangerZ> Bahhumbug: just think about your SS check coming to you with a different name on it...
00:48 < RangerZ> thats all
00:49 < RangerZ> ;)
00:49 < aestetix> har har
00:49 <@Bahhumbug> Hell, maybe I just don't give a shit about much at all.
00:49 <@Bahhumbug> Why would it?
00:49 <@Bahhumbug> Why should it
00:49 <@Bahhumbug> ?
00:49 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: do you have a one sentence summary of what you think nym rights is about?
00:49 <@Bahhumbug> Not off the top of my head, no.  Like I said, I just don't get it.  I've tried to read some stuff on it, but it holds _zero_ interest.
00:50 < aestetix> ok
00:50 < aestetix> Maybe its not your thing. Thats fine
00:50 < RangerZ> but its _your_ issue
00:50 < RangerZ> not his
00:50 < aestetix> yup
00:50 < RangerZ> which makes sense
00:50 <@Bahhumbug> I am not judging you on your involvement / interest in this.  It's obviously quite important to you and I can respect that whether I "get it" or not.
00:51 < RangerZ> do YOU have a 1 sentence summary of what nym rights is then?
00:51 < RangerZ> lol
00:51 <@Corydon76-work> The simplest and most practical way to think about it are the people who choose to use their middle names as their given names.  Consider all the groups that insist upon the legal first name, and how impractical it is
00:51 < aestetix> sure. education and advocacy of nyms :p
00:52 < aestetix> Corydon76-work: indeed. Or someone who's legal name is Robert and everyone calls them Bob
00:52 < aestetix> Which is their "real" name? Bob or Robert
00:52 <@Corydon76-work> All my bills come to me with my middle name.  Only my driver's license and mortgage use my legal first name
00:53 <@Corydon76-work> aestetix: that's less of an issue, because it's commonly understood that one is the alias of the other.
00:53 < aestetix> fair enough
00:54 <@Corydon76-work> That's why usage of your middle name as your given name is the simplest way to think about it.  If you are otherwise consistent in what you declare to be your name, the state (or other official entity) should not care in the slightest what that name is.
00:55 <@Bahhumbug> I've been signing my name on everything binding as John R. Dennison since I was 11 or so.
00:55 < RangerZ> ok mr Max Power
00:55 < RangerZ> ;)
00:55 <@Corydon76-work> What's odd is that the state DMV cares more about my "legal" name than the IRS.
00:56 <@Corydon76-work> And what does the DMV get, $30 every 5 years?  IRS gets a lot more than that in a single week from me
01:04 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: bottom line is, it's way easier to bitch at people for not supporting the "right" causes, than to get involved in a good cause for yourself.
01:05 < aestetix> Also, causes seem more important when all your friends at school complain about them
01:05 < aestetix> ... or on twitter :/
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01:09 <@Bahhumbug> Twitter isn't relevant to me.  I don't have enough time in the day to do the things that pay let alone waste time on nonsense like that.
01:09 <@Bahhumbug> Your best move since I've been here was to dump that thing.
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02:08 < RangerZ|Laptop> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ-guXcHRXE ....wow....
02:08 <@GateKeeper> Title: Ferguson Cop Who Arrested Journalists Allegedly Hogtied Child - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
02:14 < RangerZ|Laptop> but I don't understand why anyone would Wilpig tie a child
02:27 < aestetix> https://vimeo.com/103371935 nsfw
02:28 < aestetix> that video confuses me
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02:57 <@Wilpig> Bahhumbug: I have a few twitter accounts that would be worth your time to check once in a while
02:58 <@Wilpig> https://twitter.com/RobDenBleyker  example
02:58 <@GateKeeper> Title: Rob DenBleyker (RobDenBleyker) on Twitter (at twitter.com)
02:58 <@Bahhumbug> Hahaha
02:59 <@Wilpig> I don't mind his tweets coming to my phone every so often
03:00 <@Bahhumbug> heh
03:01 <@Wilpig> guess I better head down to the computer room.  this maintenance is supposed to be starting now
03:04 < RangerZ|Laptop> aestetix: http://marvel.wikia.com/Civil_War_(Event)
03:04 < RangerZ|Laptop> " Even Stark unmasked himself as Iron Man (for the second time in his career), and admitted to previous attempts to hide his identity. One supporter, however, was not yet public: Spider-Man was reluctant to reveal his identity. "
03:06 < RangerZ|Laptop> its some time during that event that he can't testify infront of congress
03:15 <@Wilpig> tonight is going to try my patience...
03:15 <@Wilpig> neteng is already pulling some bullshit
03:15 < aestetix> Wilpig: fun!
03:16 <@Bahhumbug> Is that your neteng friend?
03:16 <@Wilpig> yup
03:16 <@Wilpig> his lackey is pulling nonsense now too
03:17 < aestetix> http://i.imgur.com/HwQk6A1.jpg
03:17 < aestetix> this is cute
03:17 <@Wilpig> rather than come downstairs and deal with the equipment they have me taking pictures of it.   fine.  I've already sent them pictures of all this shit before
03:17 <@Wilpig> they're "documenting" the connections prior to moving shit.
03:17 <@Wilpig> POE2 C409-U52 Pt1 <==> C604-U44 TX13,RX13 SM
03:17 <@Wilpig> DMZ01 C604-U22 xe-0/2/1 <==> C604-U44 TX17,RX17 MM
03:17 <@Wilpig> DMZ02 C611-U22 xe-0/2/1 <==> C604-U44 TX22,RX22 SM
03:17 <@Wilpig> CORP01 C606-U43 xe-0/0/3 <==> C604-U44 TX21,RX21 SM
03:17 <@Wilpig> CORP02 C613-U43 xe-0/0/3 <==> C604-U44 TX20,RX20 SM
03:17 < aestetix> lol
03:17 <@Wilpig> I did that a few weeks ago, in their own god damned ticket
03:18 <@Wilpig> In fact, I had to in order to run new cables for all of it
03:18 <@Bahhumbug> Is there a reason that _THEY_ are not documenting this type of thing?  They ARE neteng, after all.
03:18 <@Wilpig> SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKER!  I'm very proficient at my job
03:18 <@Wilpig> that shit should be documented already, imo
03:18 <@Bahhumbug> Of course it _should_ be :)
03:18 <@Wilpig> 03:10 < wilpig> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxkwlt00h9e8vam/2014-08-27%2003.10.34.jpg?dl=0
03:18 <@Bahhumbug> Everything _should_ be.
03:18 <@Wilpig> 03:12 < laquan> can we get a closer pic
03:18 <@Wilpig> 03:12 < laquan> of the DWDM
03:18 <@Wilpig> 03:12 < wilpig> right click -> download original -> open in preview
03:19 <@Wilpig> stupid dropbox constrains even zoomed images to the browswer window
03:19 < aestetix> hahah
03:19 <@Wilpig> just so they can't say I wasn't accomdating their idiotic requests.  03:13 < wilpig> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hqdyej2sq85pyy/2014-08-27%2003.13.23.jpg?dl=0
03:20 < aestetix> hmm
03:20 < aestetix> is it possible to have a private tumblr?
03:20 <@Wilpig> no
03:20 <@Wilpig> well.. yes
03:20 <@Wilpig> not for you though
03:20 < aestetix> it just occured to me that you keep using dropbox instead of tumblr to link these images
03:20 <@Bahhumbug> Barracuda has a new sharing / cloud service if you want to try it out: https://copy.com?r=uZFHf8
03:20 <@GateKeeper> Title: Copy (at copy.com)
03:20 <@Wilpig> http://petnewsnyc.tumblr.com/
03:20 <@GateKeeper> Title: Enter Password (at petnewsnyc.tumblr.com)
03:21 < aestetix> how do I get a password
03:23 <@Bahhumbug> Run mkpasswd -l 20 from a command line?
03:23 < aestetix> lol
03:26 < RangerZ|Laptop> aestetix: you use chef , don't you?
03:26 < aestetix> yes
03:26 <@Wilpig> aestetix: it's a private tumblr
03:26 < RangerZ|Laptop> vagrant?
03:27 < RangerZ|Laptop> or do you not use that
03:27 < aestetix> nope
03:27 < aestetix> why
03:27 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c i'm looking into docker
03:28 < RangerZ|Laptop> and I'm thinking that controlling docker containers via vagrant might be _really_ nice
03:28 <@Wilpig> answer is... none of these motherfuckers are here
03:28 <@Wilpig> they're all remote
03:28 <@Wilpig> cock suckers
03:28 < aestetix> Wilpig: it would be a shame if your internet suddenly stopped letting their packets in
03:28 <@Wilpig> and mega-dick, kick of the neteng group isn't on video either.  everyone else is
03:29 < RangerZ|Laptop> and I'm thinking that it might be a REALLY nice way to configure a development environment (I mean programmer using/facing IDE and all)
03:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> one that you can share and it'll work on any linux box with vagrant (and then docker)
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03:56 < RangerZ|Laptop> hmm... :/
03:56 < RangerZ|Laptop> looks like docker can't do GUI
04:00 <@Bahhumbug> There are a lot of things docker can't do.
04:01 <@Bahhumbug> It's nice for the niche it's designed to fill, however.
04:01 <@Bahhumbug> Speaking of docker... lemme hunt a url
04:01 <@Bahhumbug> This looks interesting: https://github.com/shipyard/shipyard
04:01 <@GateKeeper> Title: shipyard/shipyard · GitHub (at github.com)
04:02 < RangerZ|Laptop> so far the only 'big' thing I see it can't do is emulate a different arch, and now UI
04:02 < RangerZ|Laptop> nice
04:02 <@Bahhumbug> selinux still isn't possible which hints at other kernel-level restrictions.
04:02 < RangerZ|Laptop> I am still curious to look into how it handles usb, etc
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04:03 <@Bahhumbug> I've not played with it at all (it's on my list) but I suspect anything that looks at / touches hardware is going to be pretty limited.
04:03 < RangerZ|Laptop> yeah, thats my guess
04:03 <@Bahhumbug> After all it's just LXC containers.
04:03 < RangerZ|Laptop> not anymore
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04:03 < RangerZ|Laptop> it uses its own library now for that
04:04 < RangerZ|Laptop> but you can switch to LXC for the env. engine if you want
04:04 < RangerZ|Laptop> (I only know b/c I was reading the wiki pretty carefully earlier)
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04:05 <@Bahhumbug> "Docker implements a high-level API to provide lightweight containers that run processes in isolation.[7] Building on top of facilities provided by the Linux kernel, cgroups and namespaces, a Docker container does not require nor include a separate operating system what is contrary to traditional virtual machines.[6] Instead, it relies on the kernel's functionality, accessed through provided libco
04:05 < RangerZ|Laptop> well I can say this much... for running an android emulator in a docker container... its _REALLY_ nice
04:05 <@Bahhumbug> Grrr.  Fucking irc length limits.
04:05 <@Bahhumbug> Yeah I can see that being quite useful.
04:06 < RangerZ|Laptop> On March 13, 2014, with the release of version 0.9, Docker dropped LXC as the default execution environment and replaced it with its own libcontainer library written in Go language.[4][21]
04:06 <@Bahhumbug> It's nice if you have developers that have to have Oh! Shiny! and you don't want to shit all over your production environment.,
04:06 < RangerZ|Laptop> I don't get what you mean?
04:07 < RangerZ|Laptop> don't you test your code on the public server?
04:07 < RangerZ|Laptop> and leave install/debug scripts publicly accessiable
04:07 < RangerZ|Laptop> accessible
04:07 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol
04:08 <@Bahhumbug> Docker permits app packaging so you can run multiple environments on the same platform instance.  Devs can package and ship and end-users can consume it via said packaging.  It's fully isolated from the underlying host config / package management.
04:08 <@Bahhumbug> Oh, you're being funny.
04:08 <@Bahhumbug> I missed that.
04:08 <@Bahhumbug> Tired.
04:08 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol, np
04:08 < RangerZ|Laptop> yeah... same
04:08 <@Bahhumbug> I'm not sure why I am trying to explain this, it's not as if you don't know wtf you're doing :)
04:08 < RangerZ|Laptop> but can't sleep, had heart burn for some reason
04:08 <@Bahhumbug> Sucks.
04:08 < RangerZ|Laptop> letting it settle down first
04:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> ehh, I'm very much still on the DEV side of dev ops
04:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> but I can run linux and not blow shit up completely
04:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> ... often...
04:09 <@Bahhumbug> heh
04:09 <@Bahhumbug> I'm very much on the ops side of... ops.
04:09 <@Bahhumbug> I fucking DESPISE the term devops.
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04:10 <@Bahhumbug> Boom goes the network.
04:10 <@Bahhumbug> At least this time it's a split and not a fucked up hub.
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04:11 < RangerZ|Laptop> yeah, I don't mind the term, but I think people think its a panacea to solve all problems
04:12 <@Bahhumbug> I don't mean this to sound insulting although I know it will...  devs ain't ops.  Period.  Giving devs root is just begging for trouble.
04:12 < aestetix> http://gawker.com/man-with-100-pound-scrotum-will-have-groin-mass-removed-1627129849
04:12 < RangerZ|Laptop> dude wtf, troll other channels with that shit
04:12 <@Bahhumbug> Who me?  Or him?
04:12 <@Bahhumbug> :)
04:12 < RangerZ|Laptop> honestly, its just getting stupid aestetix
04:13 < RangerZ|Laptop> no, I agree , as a dev... I wouldn't fucking WANT root on any production servers
04:13 <@Bahhumbug> You should call your buddy the racist cunt weev and ask him to teach you to troll.
04:14 <@Bahhumbug> Devs have a different focus and different end goals than admins / engineers.
04:14 < RangerZ|Laptop> though knowing how these new tools can be leveraged, and how to use them at a high level is useful, b/c you can at least talk to the admin and ask about how you'd like things setup
04:14 <@Bahhumbug> The Oh!  Shiny! mindset that most developers acquire is not conducive to system integrity and reliability.
04:14 <@Bahhumbug> That I agree with.
04:15 < RangerZ|Laptop> dev ops  is mostly startup territory, where you need 1 person to do 37 peoples' jobs
04:15 <@Bahhumbug> And admins / engineers should have a good understanding of the business requirements that push dev as well.
04:15 <@Bahhumbug> Yeah... it's not like that in real life anymore.
04:16 < RangerZ|Laptop> they starting to push it more into 'real' workplaces?
04:16 <@Bahhumbug> twitter has a decent way of doing things.  They lump an admin in with 5 or 6 devs so there is actual communication between the parties.
04:16 <@Bahhumbug> Oh yeah, it's making a big inroad these days.
04:16 < RangerZ|Laptop> :/
04:16 < RangerZ|Laptop> well of course
04:16 <@Bahhumbug> It'll peak and then start to fall apart like most things do.
04:16 < RangerZ|Laptop> it shifts responsibilities off an IT staffer, and onto a dev
04:17 <@Bahhumbug> And then the walls go back up and the isolation will start again and things go back to "normal".
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04:18 < RangerZ|Laptop> if the walls go up berlin style, I'll dead throw you a bag of twix bars
04:18 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol
04:18 < RangerZ|Laptop> now... I'd be curious to see how many IT admins of fortune 500 companies would give root for a kitkat bar
04:19 < RangerZ|Laptop> like that old 'study' they did
04:19 < RangerZ|Laptop> which I have no idea if it was scientific at all, or even real
04:20 < RangerZ|Laptop> where something like 30% of admins would give root away for a kitkat bar, and 15% for just a 'job well done'
04:20 < RangerZ|Laptop> or ask NSA IT staffers -_-
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04:48 <@Dagmar> It was a bad study.
04:48 <@Dagmar> Deloitte & Touche was involved in it as well
04:49 <@Dagmar> The request came, our boss wouldn't speak to it, so we followed the letter of the response.
04:49 <@Dagmar> 'cuz what do you do when a password is no longer secret?
04:49 <@Dagmar> You change it.
04:50 <@Dagmar> The study did not take that into account
04:52 <@Dagmar> What it does highlight is that most companies *do* not give their employees explicit instructions on precisely *how* to protect their passwords, and from who
04:53 <@Dagmar> You *may* be forced to divulge a password by coercion or force
04:53 <@Dagmar> ...or a password could wind up becoming exposed
04:53 <@Dagmar> This is a thing places should have written pollcies about.
04:54 <@Dagmar> 1. Report the compromise
04:54 <@Dagmar> 2. Change the password.
04:54 <@Dagmar> ...or whichever one can be done first.
04:54 <@Dagmar> ...but both should be done.
04:55 <@Dagmar> If the secrecy of a password is lost, admins have a known, small window of activity audit
04:55 <@Dagmar> er sctivity to audit
04:55 <@Dagmar> It comes down again to Prevention or Detection.
04:56 <@Dagmar> You MUST (RFC-style) have one of these for each control and each asset
04:56 < RangerZ|Laptop> yeah, i know... it was really more of a joke that they should do the study, (and I don't really remember much about the original)
04:57 <@Dagmar> I remember it because it pissed me off
04:57 < RangerZ|Laptop> but the idea of it is amusing
04:57 < RangerZ|Laptop> i think most people just replied 'sure' and didn't care
04:57 < RangerZ|Laptop> knowing that they wouldn't really do it
04:57 <@Dagmar> Being a freakin' study, they couldn't tailor it
04:58 <@Dagmar> So we literally got this request from upper management with no explanation that we should write our passwords on this piece of paper and give it to the person indicated by our immediate supervisor
04:58 <@Dagmar> Highly, *highly* fuckin' irregular since it was our department that made sure policies against this are in place
04:59 <@Dagmar> This is how I can say for sure that no one did any looking into whether or not the passwords they obtained were even valid
04:59 <@Dagmar> We had a pretty serious discussion with our boss about it.  hehe
05:00 <@Dagmar> ...because for pete's sake we'd just gotten our CISSPs for these guys, and then they basically turn around and ask us to watch Accountability go out the window... at an accounting firm.
05:01 <@Dagmar> I think it was Joel who asked "Is this a thing we're going to be having to explain to the FBI later?"
05:01 <@Dagmar> SHe couldn't tell us details, so we literally had to draw a box around the problem.
05:03 <@Wilpig> this is too small a cold aisle to me stepping on ducks
05:03 <@Dagmar> *blinkblink*
05:04 <@Dagmar> Who has ever?
05:04 <@Wilpig> @ud step on a duck
05:04 <@GateKeeper> Wilpig: duck :: A duck is a wholly wonderful creature. They also say "quack" [ex:] Duck: "Quack..." [/ex] | Something to do if Dick Cheney is around. [ex:] "Duck!""No, Quail!" [/ex] | A herb, dork, geek, nerd, etc.also) pussy, wimp, loser [ex:] You are a fucking duck. [/ex] | That thing you yell after you see somebody get hit in the head. [ex:] Person A: *gets smacked in the (4 more messages)
05:04 <@Dagmar> http://www.lfgcomic.com/tda/strip/28/  DICK PICS!  =D
05:05 < RangerZ|Laptop> um....what?
05:05 <@Wilpig> @us "step on a duck"
05:05 < RangerZ|Laptop> ohh ok
05:05 <@Dagmar> wilpig: You're not doing a very good job of explaining.
05:05 <@Wilpig> @ud "step on a duck"
05:05 <@GateKeeper> Wilpig: step on a duck :: The sound of a particular fart caused by overly compressed butt cheeks. This will occur due to the person attempting to slip out a silent squeaker so as not to draw attention to his or herself. Odds are a quack-like sound will result from this expulsion. There will always be at least one person who will notice and call you out immediately. [ex:] Wow, dude! Did ya step on a (2 more messages)
05:05 <@Dagmar> OKay.  THat's better.
05:05 <@Dagmar> Sort of.
05:06 <@Dagmar> You just try that in the hot aisle and you'll change your tune.
05:06 <@Dagmar> ...or better yet, just go outside.
05:06 < RangerZ|Laptop> or stop clenching your butt cheeks like Corydon is behind you giving you a back massage
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05:48 <@Dagmar> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY&feature=youtu.be
05:48 <@GateKeeper> Title: The Problem with Time & Timezones - Computerphile - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
05:49 <@Dagmar> Well, I just got to that part of the video.  Heh
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07:17 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
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08:06 <@Wilpig> fuck neteng.  I mean really
08:40 <@Shadow404> they send vauge instructions that turned into a mess again?
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09:46 <@Wilpig> Shadow404: they needed extra cables run, kept seeing a port go up and down and swore I was doing stuff to it but I was across the room
09:46 <@Wilpig> just a nightmare
11:13 <@shapr> SHAZAM!
11:13  * shapr hugs Shadow404
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11:45  * shapr hugs klixa with great FERVOR
11:45 <@shapr> klixa: wassup mah homie?
11:49 <@klixa> hey shapr!
11:49 <@shapr> y0 y0!
11:49 <@klixa> I'm drinking peach coffee
11:49 <@shapr> sounds nifty
11:49 <@shapr> I have some vanilla chai k-cups
11:49 <@shapr> they're tasty
11:50 <@klixa> chai is too easy to need k cups to make it :p
11:50 <@klixa> hot water+ tea bag
11:51 <@klixa> >tells someone to make their own > gets her own at Starbucks
11:54 <@shapr> haha
12:38 <@oddball> klixa: The chai k-cups are chai latte, not just straight up chai.
12:38 <@oddball> Although, they do make regular tea k-cups... which I don't understand.
12:38 <@klixa> oddball: ok + milk
12:39 <@klixa> oddball: lazy ness/people in a hurry
12:39 <@oddball> Well, there's that.
12:40 <@oddball> It's just the whole "Wait, these little cups are $1+ per cup, while a tea bag is, what, 10 cents?"
12:40 <@klixa> my chai was $3 for 20 bags
12:41 <@klixa> normal tea is like $1 for 50 bags
12:42 <@oddball> It's honestly been a while since I've bought tea, and I tend to buy the higher end stuff.
12:43 <@oddball> I didn't make any sun tea this summer, and I tend not to want hot tea when it's warm out.
12:44 <@oddball> Well, unless I'm at work, but...
12:44 <@sasquatc3> it still amazes me all the people that have to buy starbucks in the morning, seems much more convenient to me to get a machine with a timer so you wake up, its there, add what you want and go
12:44 <@sasquatc3> vs wait in line for 20min for a damn coffee
12:48 < aestetix> sasquatc3: then you can spend 20 minutes flirting with the cute barista
12:49 <@oddball> sasquatc3: My thing with Starbucks is why spend that kind of money for fairly shitty coffee and immediately leave?
12:50 <@oddball> A good part of why coffee is so expensive at traditional coffee houses is that they expect you to sit down and drink it at about the same rate you drink a beer at a bar.
12:50 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c they have convinced people that coffee (esp. theirs) actually tastes good when you put 4x the sugar in it than cola
12:50 <@brimstone> i f'n love sugar
12:50 <@brimstone> almost as much as i love glutton
12:50 < RangerZ|Laptop> and even then it still tastes fucking burnt
12:52 < RangerZ|Laptop> << doesn't like coffee
12:54 <@oddball> RangerZ|Laptop: Then they need to go to a real coffee house, not the McDonalds of coffee houses.
12:57 <@klixa> sasquatc3: I wait in line 3 min tops; I only get it when I'm staying in the store and hanging out usually
12:57 <@klixa> and free refills
12:58 <@Corydon76-work> oddball: he also may be mildly allergic to one of the components of coffee
12:58 <@klixa> pike place sucks; if you get them to make you a pour over bold it's much better
12:59 <@ignotus-sdf> I haven't seen a real coffee house since I left Alaska.
12:59 <@klixa> people only hate on Starbucks cause it's the cool thing to do :p
12:59 <@oddball> Corydon76-work: Oh, I think we were both agreeing that Starbucks coffee sucks.
12:59 <@ignotus-sdf> I'll vote the same.
13:00 <@Corydon76-work> I've had some of the best stuff available in the city, and it still doesn't sit well with my gut.  Giving up on it and seeking alternate forms of caffeine has been sufficient.
13:00 <@klixa> in the bay I prefer peets
13:00 <@oddball> klixa: I've hated Starbucks pretty much since they moved into Nashville.
13:00 <@oddball> Corydon76-work: fair enough, but I don't think that's what he was saying.
13:01 <@klixa> oddball: I lived in a van in Malibu for 3 years; Starbucks in Malibu was my living room, internet and endless coffee
13:01 <@ignotus-sdf> The one in Anchorage was a Kaladi Brothers. Had couches, live bands, a library, two levels...
13:01 <@oddball> And I wasn't saying *he* needed to try coffee at a real coffee house.  You don't like coffee, you don't like coffee.
13:01 <@klixa> even if their coffee sucked which I don't think it does I still like their company
13:01 <@Corydon76-work> oddball: I think it's kind of like beer.  If you don't even like the taste of Budweiser, the situation probably isn't going to get any better if you redirect him to more expensive stuff
13:02 <@oddball> And if the stuff at Starbucks was cheaper than other places, that would make a difference.
13:03 <@oddball> klixa: Undestood.  I practically lived at a local coffee house here during highschool.
13:03 <@Corydon76-work> oddball: how would you rate Bean Central, for example?
13:03 <@ignotus-sdf> I lived in Waffle Houses during high school.
13:04 <@klixa> oddball: which one?
13:04 <@oddball> Bongo Java's
13:04 <@oddball> Which, I think, was the only coffee house in Nashville at the time.
13:04 <@klixa> I was more of a cafe coco person
13:04 <@oddball> oh, right, forgot about Coco
13:05 <@klixa> I went to bongo java once
13:05 <@klixa> no one talked to me :(
13:05 <@ignotus-sdf> oddball: That's about like what I speak of.
13:06 <@oddball> And I think we've had this discussion before, since my friends and I started hanging out at Coco's when either 1. it was cold out and they still allowed smoking inside, or 2. Bongo's had closed for the night.
13:06 <@oddball> Corydon76-work: I'm trying to remember.  Isn't that the roaster that originally worked for Bongo's and started his own?
13:06 <@ignotus-sdf> klixa: that was about par for my course. Perhaps why I don't like them much now.
13:08 <@Corydon76-work> oddball: I don't know that far back.  I do know Joe used to have his own coffeehouse, then went exclusively wholesale about a decade ago
13:08 <@Corydon76-work> Or wholesale/mailorder.  No retail presence.
13:08 <@oddball> If that's the company I'm thinking of, I approve of his coffe. :)
13:09 <@Corydon76-work> http://beancentral.com/about-us.html
13:09 <@GateKeeper> Title: About Bean Central Coffee | bean central coffee (at beancentral.com)
13:09 <@oddball> Although, now I'm trying to remember the last time I had a cup of coffee in any form.
13:10 <@Corydon76-work> The last retail place was on West End, around 28th Ave
13:10 <@oddball> heh... there's a lizard on the screen of one of our windows, and a couple of our cats are going nuts trying to get to it.
13:11 <@Corydon76-work> Because he did his roasting and grinding onsite, if you spent any amount of time in the place, your clothes would reek of freshly ground coffee for several days afterwards
13:11 <@oddball> heh
13:16 < RangerZ|Laptop> ohh nice... got my face-rig code
13:17 < RangerZ|Laptop> https://facerig.com/ and of course they are getting hammered
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14:21 <@ignotus-sdf> shapr has competition.
14:21 <@shapr> wat?
14:21 <@shapr> what you talkin bout?
14:21 < RangerZ|Laptop> shapr: has constipation*
14:21  * shapr is confused
14:22 < RangerZ|Laptop> shapr has confusion
14:22 <@shapr> ok then.
14:22 < RangerZ|Laptop> i dunno, just playing along
14:22 < RangerZ|Laptop> and beating the dead horse like its name is rodney king
14:27 <@ignotus-sdf> this: the_hugme (~jallman@50.59.202.7) has joined #se2600
14:27 <@ignotus-sdf> shapr: you have competition.
14:28 <@ignotus-sdf> or a playmate, however you wanna take it.
14:28 <@ignotus-sdf> :)
14:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> I would have guessed the answer to that was "rough and bent over" but ok...
14:31 <@the_hugme> Did I come in at the wrong end of a conversation?
14:31  * RangerZ|Laptop considers the jokes I can make after that statement below my standards and too easy
14:31 < RangerZ|Laptop> no, we're just harassing shapr
14:32 <@the_hugme> It was purposefully obvious....
14:33 <@ignotus-sdf> shapr is very nice and friendly and likes to hug people. It was a joke based on your handle. :)
14:34 < RangerZ|Laptop> unlike the rest of us, who don't want people fucking touching us
14:34 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol
14:47 <@shapr> ohhh
14:47 <@shapr> I get it!
14:48  * shapr writes Arduino code for money
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15:46 < aestetix> RangerZ|Laptop: http://valleywag.gawker.com/cards-against-humanitys-accused-rapist-banned-from-tech-1627416634
15:46 < aestetix> he was only accused, right? no evidence?
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15:49 < aestetix> oh wow Im reading into it... what a messs
15:52 < RangerZ|Laptop> i honestly don't know
15:53 < RangerZ|Laptop> from what i've heard, he was accused and thats it
15:55 < RangerZ|Laptop> "The game is especially popular with young nerds who consider themselves liberal, and if you're playing with close friends whose sense of humor matches your own, it's misanthropic fun. "
15:56 < RangerZ|Laptop> pretty spot on
15:56 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol
15:58 < aestetix> so uh
15:58 < aestetix> you know the phreaknic code of conduct
15:58 < aestetix> http://blog.xoxofest.com/conduct
15:58 < aestetix> it could be so much worse
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16:00 < aestetix> So it's good to know
16:00 < aestetix> That if I want someone removed from a conference
16:00 < aestetix> I make a fake twitter or facebook account accusing them of rape
16:00 < RangerZ|Laptop> because no one would ever just randomly talk about sex topics or disgusting things, just to get a rise out of people and be an asshole... not on IRC or at a conf.
16:00 < aestetix> and when nobody repsonds, I just @reply all these fauxminists to support me
16:01 < RangerZ|Laptop> trolling leads to anti-trolling rules
16:01 < RangerZ|Laptop> anti-trolling rules are broken by design, but thats the state of society
16:02 < aestetix> well
16:02 < RangerZ|Laptop> the US legal mentality is to protect the stupid from themselves, and unfortunately that bleeds over into conf. rules and the such
16:02 < aestetix> I'd actually say the issue is that we've put rules in place that are a reaction to crazyness
16:02 < RangerZ|Laptop> these rules wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the bitch suing mcDs for millions for 'hot' coffee
16:02 < aestetix> Rather than having rules that make sense in a logical order
16:15 <@Mirage> All the thin-skinned cry babies in the world today piss me off.  The world has lots of people, not all of them will do things you like..and, believe it or not, some of them will be offended by somethign you do.  Live with it, deal with it, grow the fuck up.
16:15 <@Corydon76-work> Those rules exist primarily due to how courts have assigned liability
16:16 <@Corydon76-work> And liability is expressed in terms of insurance riders and exclusions.
16:18 <@Corydon76-work> I don't disagree that people should take responsibility for their own actions, but being in charge of anything means you have prospective liability for anything that happens on your watch.
16:19 <@Mirage> let them sue the hotel
16:19 <@Mirage> rule #1, you don't sue poor people.
16:21  * oddball scrolls back some
16:22 <@oddball> So... one of the guys that created Cards Against Humanity was accused (not convicted) of raping someone, therefor he's evil?
16:22 <@oddball> Quick! Someone accuse Carzypants of raping someone!
16:23 <@Mirage> So glad we live in a country where the justice system is one based on "innocent until proven guilty"...
16:24 <@oddball> Oh... and the story is apparently "he raped a friend of mine, once."  Not even a charge or the victim herself coming forward.  Sorry... fuck you.
16:25 <@Mirage> of course if they've already decided guilt and there's some inconvenient eveidence to the contrary, it normally gets swept under the rug as "irrelevant" or "inadmisible"
16:26 <@Mirage> oh..and if anyone has issues with all the typos..I just started using Shadow404's spellchecker..=)
16:26 <@oddball> heh
16:27 < RangerZ|Laptop> the thing is he wrote an apology to her, that if their 19 y/o makeout sessions (no sex), or the way which he 'broke up' with her by just stopping to answer her calls... ended up hurting her, that he was sorry
16:28 < RangerZ|Laptop> and that apology is being used against him too, saying how he shouldn't try to be a 'good feminist'
16:28 < RangerZ|Laptop> etc
16:30 < aestetix> what is he supposed to do?
16:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> go to jail
16:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> i dunno
16:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> basically there is no 'right way' at that point other than self-hating, from what i can tell
16:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> or beforehand either
16:30 <@oddball> aestetix: kill himself
16:31 <@oddball> Or at least have the decency to never do anything of any worth.
16:31 < aestetix> This sounds like the classic being jealous of someone who did something cool.... mixed with a rape charge
16:32 < aestetix> the problem with this is it detracts from people who have actually been raped
16:32 <@Corydon76-work> oddball: apparently, the person did come forward, but doesn't want to press charges:  http://humanityagainstassault.tumblr.com/post/91625206355/truth
16:32 <@GateKeeper> Title: Humanity Against Sexual Assault Truth. (at humanityagainstassault.tumblr.com)
16:32 < aestetix> If she doesn't want to press charges, then there's not much else to do.
16:33 < aestetix> .... is there?
16:33 < RangerZ|Laptop> same him publicly forever
16:33 < RangerZ|Laptop> shame*
16:33 <@Corydon76-work> I don't think there's a good, clean answer to that
16:34 <@oddball> Not sure about the statute of limitations on rape in the appropriate state, but I highly doubt that a rape charge 8 years after the fact would go anywhere.
16:34 <@Corydon76-work> She didn't allege rape anyway
16:34 <@oddball> Sorry, sexual assault.
16:34 < RangerZ|Laptop> oddball: yes/no the statue of limitations on rape is going away
16:34 < RangerZ|Laptop> they are extending it here and there
16:34 <@Corydon76-work> RangerZ|Laptop: that would be a decision per-state
16:35 <@Corydon76-work> and I can see extending it, but getting rid of it altogether seems rather strange
16:35 <@oddball> and it's basically a straight up he said/she said case at this point.  No chance of gathering actual evidence.
16:35 < RangerZ|Laptop> plus she was of-age at the time, if she was under 18, then the statue of limitations goes away
16:35 < aestetix> So basically, these people railed for years about this to get awful laws passed about rape/sex
16:35 < RangerZ|Laptop> aestetix: i wouldn't say that either
16:35 < aestetix> And now when even the law is like "hey, that's a little overboard" then they turn to public shaming?
16:36 <@Corydon76-work> RangerZ|Laptop: even under 18, there's a statute of limitations
16:36 < RangerZ|Laptop> Corydon76-work: from my understanding b/c of the church scandals, that the statue of limitations on children rape/etc is actually being extended
16:36 <@Corydon76-work> I think in most places, a person has up to 7 years after they turn 18 to have charges filed
16:37 <@Corydon76-work> RangerZ|Laptop: again, that would be per-state
16:37 < RangerZ|Laptop> yes, and?
16:37 < RangerZ|Laptop> i never said it was nation wide
16:39 < RangerZ|Laptop> TN is 15 years, for class A, 8yr for class b
16:39 < RangerZ|Laptop> https://www.rainn.org/public-policy/legal-resources/tennessee/statutes-of-limitations
16:39 <@GateKeeper> Title: Statutes of Limitations | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (at www.rainn.org)
16:41 <@Corydon76-work> RangerZ|Laptop: it's 25 years for a person under 18
16:42 <@Corydon76-work> So basically, until the victim is 43
16:43  * RangerZ|Laptop shrugs thankfully in Ohio it is 5 yrs , so I'm scott free of any charges ... i mean... 
16:43 <@Corydon76-work> You haven't had sexual contact for 5 years, then?
16:44 <@Mirage> RangerZ|Laptop: Does NotLarry need to provide you with one of his blank restraining orders?
16:44 <@Corydon76-work> Because that's basically all that you need for a charge of sexual assault
16:44 < aestetix> Corydon76-work: define sexual contact
16:44 < RangerZ|Laptop> i meant from when i was a kid
16:45 <@Corydon76-work> aestetix: Look to Ohio law
16:45 < aestetix> Since I have actually heard people make accusations at someone for taking a harsh tone at them
16:45 < RangerZ|Laptop> and honestly i was making that up completely, i have no idea
16:45 < RangerZ|Laptop> and don't even care to look it up, lol
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16:53 <@Corydon76-work> RangerZ|Laptop: I'm aware of Tennessee law to a certain extent, since in the distant past, I dated someone who was under 18 at the time.
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17:06 <@Dagmar>  http://instagram.com/lfgrichard
17:06 <@GateKeeper> Title: Instagram (at instagram.com)
17:17 <@Bahhumbug> aestetix: "This document was based on the work of JSConf, Geek Feminism, confcodeofconduct.com, and inspired by resources provided by Ashe Dryden."  jesus...
17:18 <@Bahhumbug> Geek Feminism, confcodeofconduct.com...
17:18 <@Bahhumbug> This is gettng so out of hand...
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17:33 <@Mirage> rsync -radv --exclude="/mnt/*" --exclude="/home/*" --exclude="/opt/*" --exclude="usr/*" --exclude="/tmp/*" --exclude="/var/*" --exclude="/proc/*" --exclude="/sys/*" --exclude="/users/*" --exclude="/app/*" --exclude="/boot/*" * /mnt
17:33 <@Mirage> oops
17:34 <@Wilpig> jesus Mirage were you including anything there?
17:35 <@Mirage> just what was actually on /dev/sda2, which I was migrating to LVM
17:37 <@Mirage> Another team built out, then handed over 18 servers for us to install Puppet, PuppetDB, Satellite, Satellite DB, or Satellite Proxy on.   All of them had a 512M "/" mounted on /dev/sda2.  Everything else (except of course /boot) was in LVM.
17:38 <@Mirage> Of course their answer to the problem was "We'll get the image we deployed from corrected and rebuilt to we can re-deploy those 20 hosts.
17:39 < aestetix> what is confcodeofconduct
17:39 < aestetix> ugh
17:40 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: it's an anti-sex policy, not an anti-harassment
17:43 <@Dagmar> What are ya'll reading
18:07 < aestetix> https://justinetunney.com/egalitarianism.html
18:09 <@Dagmar> What the fuck is with the f's
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18:17 <@Dagmar> Because it's so damn cute http://jezebel.com/toddler-surprised-by-ice-bucket-challenge-swears-harder-1627082305/+markshrayber
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19:57 < RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awFrWxfDA30
19:57 <@GateKeeper> Title: Brad Templeton: Todays Surveillance Society is Beyond Orwellian - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
19:58 < aestetix> interesting
19:58 < aestetix> people are now citing "facebook" as a skill on linkedin
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20:28 <@Bahhumbug> Said people would never even get an initial interview with me if I came across that.
20:28 <@Bahhumbug> If you're so lacking in real skills you need to list something like that you're worthless.
20:29 <@Bahhumbug> If you think that "facebook" is an actual skill you're also worthless :)
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20:36 <@Bahhumbug> The better half pointed out that many companies now do have a team, generally part of their marketting department, that is responsible for facebook activities for brand awareness, advertising, etc.  I get that.  But if you can use a computer you can use facebook and it doesn't require a dedicated "skill" to do so.
20:37 < RangerZ> at least be 'facebook and social media marketing' or something
20:37 < RangerZ> otherwise ...gtfo
20:40 <@Dagmar> I'm really interested in hearing who gets busted for embezzlement for this http://www.jrn.com/newschannel5/news/newschannel-5-investigates/Highway-Patrol-Exits-Military-Surplus-Program-272942711.html
20:40 <@GateKeeper> Title: Highway Patrol Ends Military Surplus Program - NewsChannel5.com (at www.jrn.com)
20:41 < aestetix> what is a facebook activity
20:41 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: honest question. I don't have a facebook account
20:41 <@Dagmar> ...because clearly it's just a lot of 'trouble' to keep track of the military weaponry a civilian highway patrol force accumulates
20:41 < aestetix> So some of the terms don't make sense to me.
20:42 <@Dagmar> ...and none of it was embezzlement in any way.
20:43 < RangerZ> wait...wtf... bayonets...
20:43 < RangerZ> "In a statement, a spokesperson said they were given to other law enforcement agencies and that the sleeping systems were donated to the boy scouts."
20:44 < RangerZ> WHICH fucking LEA
20:44 <@Dagmar> So... I'm thinking that's some pretty blatant embezzlemnet with the sleeping bags
20:44 < RangerZ> unless it is fucking park rangers using them to fight off bears... I have a problem with that
20:44 < RangerZ> ohh no
20:44 <@Dagmar> There's no need for htem to have them, and I'll wager the person resonsible for ordering the sleeping bags is friends with someone from the Boy Scouts who was more than happy to take that equipment in
20:45 < RangerZ> thats the thing... once you GET these things... there is no time you have to keep them
20:45 < RangerZ> you can immediately sell them or donate them, etc
20:45 < RangerZ> so places were just 'getting' things, and then selling them
20:45 <@Dagmar> Yes, but if you get them *for* the department just to donate elsewhere, that's embezzlement and misappropriation
20:45 <@Bahhumbug> aestetix: In the context of this particular discussion: New product announcements; coupons for products redeemable at various locations; on-site schedules for promotional activities etc.
20:46 <@Dagmar> MIsappropriation of funds is a _thing_
20:46 < aestetix> RangerZ: this reminds me of the pentagon saying that the weapons ferguson used didn't come from them. They didn't bother to ask "then where the FUCK did they come from?"
20:46 <@Dagmar> This is all being very nicely covered up
20:46 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: huh
20:46 <@Dagmar> What a surprise
20:47 < aestetix> Bahhumbug: so normal promotion things, except mished into facebook for reasons
20:47 <@Bahhumbug> Pretty much, yes.
20:47 <@Dagmar> because reasons
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20:59 <@Dagmar> Yay for catonic https://www.facebook.com/96711894275/photos/a.134216324275.131423.96711894275/10152741688474276/?type=1&theater
21:00 <@GateKeeper> Title: Timeline Photos (at www.facebook.com)
21:00 < aestetix> catonic?
21:11 <@Dagmar> Yes, thaty
21:11 <@Dagmar> that's Catonic.  Kris Kirby.
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21:22 < aestetix> uhhh
21:22 < aestetix> I see something that says punk isn't dead
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21:29 <@Dagmar> Yes, read the bottom
21:32 < RangerZ> Dagmar: it only shows certain comments to you b/c you are logged in
21:32 < RangerZ> i'm guessing he made a comment?
21:32 < aestetix> huh
21:32 < aestetix> yeah I don't see anything by catonic
21:33 < aestetix> what did he say
21:35 < RangerZ> yeah, same here, I even logged in, nadda
21:35 <@Dagmar> He reshared it
21:36 < aestetix> I don't have a facebook account
21:38 < aestetix> oh jesus fuck you web brower CA monopoly
21:38 < aestetix> "The certificate is not trusted because it is self-signed."
21:42 <@Dagmar> whose
21:42 <@Dagmar> THey should always be self-signed
21:43 < RangerZ> and its not a monopoly its a syndicate
21:43 < aestetix> mine
21:43 < aestetix> I was testing a server
21:43 < RangerZ> just add the key
21:44 < RangerZ> or make your own signing cert, and add that cert to the browser
21:44 < aestetix> I know
21:44 <@Dagmar> RangerZ++
21:44 < aestetix> it's just additional shit I have to do now
21:44 <@Dagmar> No, that's the shit you've always had to do
21:44 < aestetix> I mean for what I'm working on
21:45 <@Dagmar> You DO NOT want the browser just happily ignoring the fact that the cert it ws given was signed by some made-up CA you've never heard of
21:45 <@Dagmar> Don't fucking complain when the computer complains because you did something insecure.
21:46 < aestetix> I will not respond with all the ways that SSL is broken and completely bastardizes what "trust" means :)
21:47 < RangerZ> actually it doesn't, its a very logical standpoint, just you disagree with that logic
21:47 < RangerZ> you want the UN to control all the main CA certs
21:47 < RangerZ> thats all
21:48 < RangerZ> (yes i know he doesn't want that, lol)
21:48 < aestetix> no
21:48 < aestetix> I think ICANN should
21:48 < RangerZ> it does
21:48 < RangerZ> via proxies
21:48 < RangerZ> proxies -> legal meaning, not tech one
21:48 < aestetix> is that like a dba?
21:49 < RangerZ> network solutions, and all the other CA report to ICANN , AFAIK
21:49 < aestetix> so tell me
21:50 < aestetix> what did ICANN do with all the money it raked in creating new TLDs
21:50 < RangerZ> hookers and blow
21:50 < aestetix> heh
21:51 <@Dagmar> aestetix: You won't argue for them, but apparently you want it to be *more* broken?
21:52 <@Dagmar> Dude what the fuck
21:52 < RangerZ> http://www.thedomains.com/2013/12/29/shocking-icann-may-make-money-off-the-new-gtld-program/
21:52 <@Dagmar> Are you going to start campaigning for illteracy next?
21:52 < RangerZ> "Despite huge pressure from the community, ICANN has refused to commit how these funds will be spent."
21:52 < aestetix> Dagmar: heh
21:52 < RangerZ> and its not like the browsers 'make' you use those keys
21:52 < RangerZ> you're more than welcome to delete them all
21:52 <@Dagmar> Dude ther'es nothing wrong with SSL itself
21:52 < aestetix> Dagmar: nah, I'm just pissed off that i hit another hurdle in a project I'm working on
21:53 <@Dagmar> There's just people who are fucking lazy and don't read and implement it improperly or don't understand it to begin with and thusly stand _zero_ chance
21:53 <@Dagmar> aestetix: Well it's a tiny one neither Mirage nor I would have had because we understand how a chain of trust works
21:53 < aestetix> (a simple project turned into 2 long days and this was a straw that broke the camels back)
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21:54 <@Dagmar> SSL is not magic secrecy sauce
21:55 <@Dagmar> Fuck these people complaining about ICANN
21:55 <@Dagmar> ICANN was *forced* to pillage the fucking dot.
21:55 < aestetix> by whom?
21:55 < RangerZ> UN and USA
21:55 < RangerZ> USA is going to lose ICANN soon
21:55 < RangerZ> to UN
21:55 <@Dagmar> By all the fuckers who argued that they were being harmed by not being allowed to participate in the sodomization of the dot itself
21:56 <@Dagmar> It was the last giant land-grab
21:56 < aestetix> so basically what you're saying
21:56 < aestetix> is that most of the issues with ICANN and SSL are actually because of politics
21:56 < RangerZ> not 'most'
21:56 <@Dagmar> What I'm saying is the only place the argument leads is that these fuckers who pillaged the last part of the namespace are about to argue that they should be given all the leftover money
21:56 < aestetix> heh yeah
21:56 <@Dagmar> ALL of hte problems
21:56 < RangerZ> and here is the shitty part
21:56 < RangerZ> once ICANN goes to UN
21:56 <@Dagmar> ICANN and IANA have managed this shit for a few decades now without issue
21:57 < RangerZ> it will lose first ammendment shielding
21:57 < RangerZ> and DMCA shielding
21:57 <@Dagmar> At every turn except this last one they've told people to fuck right off when they tried to involve politics in what would ordinarily be 100% technical decision-making
21:57 < aestetix> well that explains where the money went
21:59 <@Dagmar> That guy is just butthurt because IANA is and always has been against domain-squatting and everything his shitty little "news" site stands for
21:59 < RangerZ> if either of them is handed over to UN, then 'non-discrimination of religions' might become a policy
22:00 < RangerZ> b/c most # of countries have that law
22:00 <@Dagmar> Fuck politicians who want control of a technical process they don't understand
22:01 <@Dagmar> I would like it if ICANN would move to Sealand, install really big guns, and say "Fuck you people.  None of you can say we're doing a bad job, now let us fucking do it."
22:01 <@Dagmar> I strongly suspect the gTLD server operators would back them up.
22:02 < RangerZ> honestly...
22:02 < RangerZ> i'd fucking donate to them if they did that
22:02 <@Dagmar> Maybe we need a Kickstarter to make ICANN into a soveriegn nation
22:03 < RangerZ> fuck that... we can just buy an emerite somewhere
22:03 < RangerZ> lol
22:10 < RangerZ> jesus... some of these students in class were born in 93
22:10  * RangerZ feels like Bahhumbug
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22:41 <@Dagmar> You know, I'm glad Chrome is a matter of continuous improvement now, but I'm getting tired of seeing the fonts change ever so slightly every three days
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22:54 < RangerZ> LOL... 35% of iowa republicans want romney as the nominee in 2016
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23:02 < RangerZ> wow..... a police K9 unit... allowed its dog to pee on the memorial for mike brown
23:04 < oddball> classy
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23:17 < aestetix> Dagmar: So it turns out I was wrong.
23:17 < aestetix> My issue wasn't because of a self signed SSL cert.
23:17 < aestetix> It was due to HSTS.
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23:28 <@Dagmar> Not really sure how you can confuse those two
23:28 < aestetix> Note the bit where I'm tired and pissed off at the project :)
23:29 <@oddball> aestetix: I'll try to remember to tell you if Dragoncon is still printing legal names on badges.  My guess is "yes."
23:29 <@Dagmar> k
23:29 < aestetix> oddball: thanks
23:29 < aestetix> when is it?
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23:29 <@oddball> Tomorrow.
23:29 < aestetix> oh fun!
23:29 <@Dagmar> Well, I'm sure there won't be *that* many Penis McPenisons there
23:29 <@oddball> Laborday weekend.  Every year.
23:30 <@oddball> heh
23:30 < aestetix> Dagmar: you mean Pat McCrotch
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23:30 <@Dagmar> No, I mean people who registered under the name Penis McPenison
23:30 <@oddball> aestetix: You should totally change you legal name to Penis McPenison.
23:30 < aestetix> I've actually considered changing it to John Doe
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23:31 <@Dagmar> I'm *rather* certain they make exceptions
23:32 <@Dagmar> They have countless guests who operate via nom de plume and stage names
23:33 <@Dagmar> What we should do... *grin* is set up a "Persistent Psudonumity Registry"
23:33 <@Dagmar> er Psuedonymity
23:33 <@oddball> Oh, they do the fucking stupid thing of letting you choose a badge name, but still printing your real name and damn home town under that.
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23:34 <@Dagmar> Why the fuck is the home town going on there?
23:34 <@oddball> No damn clue.
23:34 < aestetix> Yeah, I will not go to Dragoncon again until that's changed.
23:34 <@oddball> Only reason I can think of is that it makes it easier for stalkers that way.
23:34 <@Dagmar> Maybe we need to have some drinking sessions over these problems at PN
23:35 < aestetix> Dagmar: I had a lot of people ask me about that during nymwars
23:35 <@Dagmar> Because we *could* develop a persistent psuedonym registry
23:35 < aestetix> And it's a bad idea for many many reasons.
23:35 <@Dagmar> Let orgs and people register, using pub/priv key
23:35 <@oddball> Actually, my guess is that they do that to make it easier to make sure that the pre-reg badges go to the right people.
23:36 <@Dagmar> We don't have to give a fuck who holds the other end of that
23:36 < aestetix> Dagmar: do you think you should be forced to show government id for a key signing party?
23:36 < aestetix> oddball: because there are no other ways to do that
23:36 <@oddball> Dagmar: That's basically what Dru is wanting to do with the QR code registration.
23:36 <@Dagmar> aeststix: I think it's a bad idea to be having a key signing party where you have to show someone a government issued ID to "prove" who you are because *they don't already know*
23:36 <@oddball> aestetix: Oh, I agree with you, just trying to figure out a legit reason.
23:36 <@Dagmar> oddball: Okay, you and me, after the next 2600 meeting
23:37 <@Dagmar> We will hash out details
23:37 < aestetix> oddball: the legit reason is that they didn't think it through and went with a solution that sounds easy to them but makes a bunch of things problematic
23:37 <@oddball> I think there's also the bullshit reason of it helping cut down on people sharing badges.
23:38 <@Dagmar> Because it's completely possible to have forward secrecy for some shit like a site where someone could say "I am MajorRekballs on pooptopia.com" be able to disclose that in a way that would allow someone to verify that claim without involving pooptopia.com
23:38 < aestetix> oddball: so you're expected to have your conference badge AND a government ID on you at all times?
23:38 <@oddball> I just hoping that they don't have the legal names in bigger print then they have the badge names again.
23:38 <@oddball> aestetix: I don't remember that being a stipulation of the con rules.
23:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> oddball: if you are buying alcohol, yes
23:38 <@Dagmar> ...and the orgs don't have to be websites.
23:38 < aestetix> oddball: then what is the point
23:39 < aestetix> and hometown makes even less sense
23:39 <@oddball> RangerZ|Laptop: Well, if you're buying alcohol... that gets into legal requirements.
23:39 <@Dagmar> Orgs could be created ad hoc, or for "official" orgs, money paid
23:39 < aestetix> RangerZ|Laptop: you know, there are ways to solve that.
23:39 <@oddball> aestetix: Yeah... I don't know why the fuck they have the home town on there.
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23:39 < RangerZ|Laptop> also, you will need your legal ID to show the cops when the cops are called because of crazypants
23:39 <@Dagmar> ...or a bit of a waiting period and a magic URL like Google does
23:39 < aestetix> Like if you have to show your ID to get in, why not have them also check your age, and put a special sticker on the badge showing you're 21
23:40 < RangerZ|Laptop> she'll either be being arrested or trying to have a male arrested
23:40 < aestetix> But I mean, is underage drinking that big of a problem there?
23:40 <@Dagmar> aestetix uhh... same reason there's not a *sticker* on your DL saying you're under 21.
23:40 <@Dagmar> It would "accidentally" peel off
23:40 < aestetix> Dagmar: put the sticker on and them laminate it
23:40 < aestetix> Or have it print something onto the badge when it's doing it
23:40 <@Dagmar> aestetix: You would like to defend yourself against "contributing to the delinquency of a minor" charge at DRAGONCON?
23:40 <@oddball> Oh... I need to get a new passport.  I think I'll also go ahead and get one of those border cards.  If for nothing else, I'll have 3 forms of government issued photo ID in my wallet.
23:40 <@Dagmar> Where just letting them in the door could be construed as such
23:41 < aestetix> I'm really not sure why the badge needs to be involved in ID checking.
23:41 <@oddball> For the next time someone tells me that getting a photo ID is hard.
23:41 < RangerZ|Laptop> oddball: the card has photo?
23:41 <@Dagmar> Give minors an entirely different badge layout
23:41 < aestetix> I can totally see  a bouncer needing to check ID to get into a place where you can drink
23:41 < aestetix> I cannot see that same bouncer also needing to see a dragoncon pass
23:41 <@oddball> The border card?  Pretty sure it does.
23:41 < RangerZ|Laptop> same as drivers ID, underage are vertical now mostly
23:42 < RangerZ|Laptop> yeah i guess it does
23:42 < RangerZ|Laptop> for some reason i thought it didn't
23:42 < aestetix> I mean
23:42 <@oddball> aestetix: Requiring government issued ID may be required to sell alcohol in Ga, and there's a few bars set up in areas that require con badges to get in.
23:42 < aestetix> I personally solve this issue by not going to places where there are people who are under 21
23:43 <@oddball> I like using my carry permit randomly and seeing people's reaction.
23:43 < aestetix> oddball: so show a badge and show your ID. Why does your name need to be on the badge?
23:43 <@oddball> It doesn't.  I agree with you.
23:43 < aestetix> I don't think a bar is going to care if you borrowed a friends con badge to go to a party and drink
23:43 < aestetix> They will care that you're giving them money
23:44 <@oddball> They care if they then get busted for serving a minor.
23:44 < aestetix> Which is why they would check ID at the door
23:44 < aestetix> Like any other bar.
23:45 <@oddball> There have been a couple parties at Dragoncon that checked IDs at the door and gave you a bracelet.
23:45 <@oddball> There are also some that won't let you in with outside drinks.  These are parties I refuse to go to.
23:46 < aestetix> No offense, but my last dragoncon experience was not so pleasant.
23:46 < aestetix> Mostly because I have a low tolerance for how many 15 year olds I can be around :p
23:46 < RangerZ|Laptop> aestetix: just b/c the banana-man was humping you ... isn't dragoncon's fault
23:46 < aestetix> I don't think Corydon76-work was at dragoncon
23:47 <@oddball> aestetix: eh, fair enough.
23:47 < aestetix> oddball: let me rephrase that
23:47 < aestetix> I value a diversity of age.
23:47 < aestetix> I don't like it when it's 90% teenagers
23:48 <@oddball> I don't remember it being quite that scewed.
23:50 < aestetix> There are two reasons for this
23:50 < aestetix> 1. They are annoying 2. jailbait
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23:53 <@oddball> Do yourself a favor and never *ever* go to an anime con.
23:53 < RangerZ> sadly, thats one of the ones i'd want to check out... but know better than to ever visit
23:54 < RangerZ> the shops might be worth visiting, if i was the only person there... but yeah...
23:54 <@oddball> Oh, of the local cons?
23:55 < RangerZ> i meant dragoncon
23:55 < RangerZ> doesn't it do tracts or something
23:55 < RangerZ> << never been
23:55 < RangerZ> from what i hear, the anime one is pretty annoying
23:55 <@oddball> Ah. I disagree with aestetix About the age makeup.  There's a shit ton of actual adults there.
23:55 <@oddball> Which anime one?
23:56 <@oddball> Oh, sorry... misread.
23:56 <@oddball> Yes, they have many tracks.
23:57 < RangerZ> guy i used to work with went down there, and he had all these "great stories"
23:57 <@oddball> According to their app, I count 45 tracks this year.
23:57 < RangerZ> but he was literally the nastiest person i ever worked with
23:58 < RangerZ> psoriasis , flaking all over his cube
23:58 < RangerZ> and annoying as hell
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--- Log closed Thu Aug 28 00:00:25 2014