--- Log opened Sun Aug 10 00:00:15 2014
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00:19 <@wilpig> man...
00:19 <@wilpig> the shit I hear from back home
00:20 <@wilpig> dude I went to HS with was arrested for fucking a horse
00:20 <@wilpig> fucking... a... horse...
00:20 <@wilpig> the cops were looking at the scene and found cigarette butts in front of and behind the horse as well as empty beer cans on both sides
00:21 <@wilpig> they asked him if he had to get the horse drunk first
00:47 <@Corydon76-home> Well, you know, the horse was kind of asking for it, parading around naked and everything.
00:48 < RangerZ|Laptop> i mean... if thats your kink... just build a fucking horse with a fleshlight in it
00:48 < RangerZ|Laptop> still creepy as hell... but not illegal
00:54 <@Corydon76-home> Just as a matter of point, I prefer arguments based upon why it's illegal, not just that it's illegal, period.  Laws are changed all the time.
00:54 <@wilpig> it's weird period
00:55 <@Corydon76-home> It's illegal because it's animal abuse
00:56 <@Corydon76-home> Not much different than rape of a child
00:58 <@Corydon76-home> "It's weird" was also the justification for banning homosexual sex and interracial marriage.
01:23 < RangerZ|Laptop> aren't both of those illegal still in TN, except for federal court rulings? lol
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02:24 < aestetix_> wilpig: I guess the horse didn't consent?
02:29 <@Corydon76-home> RangerZ|Laptop: Nope, TN Supreme Court threw out the sodomy law in 1996.
02:35 < aestetix_> wilpig: that is just fucked up.
02:44 < RangerZ|Laptop> Dagmar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl8nhDHH07A&t=30m43s ignore title, someone went war-cat-ing
02:44 <@GateKeeper> Title: The WAN Show: Gamestop fingerprints customers, Yoshis real name revealed - August 8th, 2014 - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
02:44 < RangerZ|Laptop> so you should do that to your new cat, hehe
02:44 < aestetix_> wait
02:45 < aestetix_> they fingerprint customers?
02:46 < RangerZ|Laptop> only people in Philly and Oakland, where there is nothing but thieves who steal games and trade them in
02:46 < aestetix_> is there a link other than that youtube video about that?
02:46 < RangerZ|Laptop> just google it, there are 1000s, but basically its just philly ;) , and it has a law that pawn shops have to finger print people
02:47 < aestetix_> oh ok
02:47 < RangerZ|Laptop> and gamestop got pro-active, and even philly police say gamestop doesn't qualify as a pawn shop
02:47 < aestetix_> I'm actually generally ok with that if there's a law about it. Because the law is easier to fight than a corporate practice.
02:47 < RangerZ|Laptop> but all they are doing is taking your fingerprints and building a statewide database of them
02:48 < RangerZ|Laptop> nothing wrong here, look the other way
02:48 < aestetix_> Right, but I can show up at Philly city hall and protest it.
02:48 < RangerZ|Laptop> i don't know if they are 'uploading' or 'hashing' and checking against
02:48 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c you can use finger prints as a hash seed, and check against a known black list of people easily with no privacy violations
02:49 < RangerZ|Laptop> thats what I'm guessing is 'really' happening
02:49 < aestetix_> Unless you qualify a hash of a fingerprint is meta-data
02:49 < RangerZ|Laptop> thankfully you have no right to meta-data being private
02:49 < aestetix_> heh
02:49 < RangerZ|Laptop> SCOTUS said so a few years ago
02:49 < aestetix_> I'm aware.
02:50 < aestetix_> But I think what you're getting at is that the meta-data is not useful without the fingerprints themselves.
02:50 < RangerZ|Laptop> though they are leaning towards it, but there is no direct mention of it in constitition
02:50 < aestetix_> IE if I stole a database full of hashes....
02:50 < RangerZ|Laptop> correct
02:50 < RangerZ|Laptop> what I'm waiting for is for them to 19th amendment the 2nd
02:51 < RangerZ|Laptop> sorry... not 19th
02:51 < aestetix_> so
02:51 < aestetix_> why would the constitution say anything about meta-data
02:51 < RangerZ|Laptop> 18th
02:51 < RangerZ|Laptop> why not, we're the only generation to not pass an amendment to the constition
02:52 < aestetix_> or anything into law, for that matte
02:52 < RangerZ|Laptop> thats only since the black guy got into power, and republicans were able to enact their plans
02:52 < RangerZ|Laptop> truman's "do nothing congress" passed like 900 laws , this congress has passed like 122
02:52 < aestetix_> Right
02:53 < aestetix_> So what are the chances that the 123rd law will be a constitutional amendment
02:54 < RangerZ|Laptop> none, unless it says that if less than 70% of the population believes you are born in the US, that you aren't a 'natural born citizen', so therefore you can't be president
02:55 < aestetix_> So on a differnt note
02:56 < aestetix_> I'm curious what goes through someone's mind to make them think "I am going to fuck a horse"
02:56 < RangerZ|Laptop> but on that topic... apparently the wording of the 14th amendment might blow that requirement out of the water, b/c it gives citizenship to anyone with a parent who is a citizen
02:56 < aestetix_> I'd have to take a look
02:56 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c "naturalized"
02:56 < aestetix_> I have not read all the amendments
02:56 < aestetix_> only the constitution
02:57 < RangerZ|Laptop>  All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. 
02:57 < RangerZ|Laptop> section 1 first sentence, makes no distinguishing difference between born or naturalized
02:58 < RangerZ|Laptop> its a theoretical constitutional law question that no one has tried a case on, i just find it interesting
02:58 < RangerZ|Laptop> part of me likes the french system where they have judges check laws for constitutionality before they are enacted
02:58 < RangerZ|Laptop> I think we should have both
03:01 <@Corydon76-home> RangerZ|Laptop: 14th Amendment only applies as to whom is a Citizen.  Requirements for the Presidency are set out in Article II
03:03 < RangerZ|Laptop> its the rest of section 1 that matters about that, too long to copy/paste here, but generally called the 'equal protection clause'
03:03 <@Corydon76-home> "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President..."
03:03 < RangerZ|Laptop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
03:03 <@GateKeeper> Title: Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
03:03 < RangerZ|Laptop> yes, but since it is a higher #'d amendment, it can, and some have argued, has... wiped that requirement
03:04 <@Corydon76-home> Citizenship specifiers are separate from Presidential requirements
03:04 < aestetix_> RangerZ|Laptop: http://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/comments/2d41dt/check_out_my_grandpas_drivers_license_from_1937/
03:04 < RangerZ|Laptop> i'm not the constitional law expert, I am just saying what they I have heard discussed
03:04 <@Corydon76-home> The only question is how you interpret "natural-born"
03:05 < RangerZ|Laptop> which is how they do
03:05 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c born of a parent = natural born in all US laws, etc right now
03:05 <@Corydon76-home> In the case of Romney's father, who was judged eligible, though he did not win, he was born in Mexico to American parents
03:05 < RangerZ|Laptop> ^
03:05 < RangerZ|Laptop> and in either case, obama's mother was an american citizen
03:05 <@Corydon76-home> Yep
03:06 < RangerZ|Laptop> but aestetix_, I actually do think we will see an amendment in the next 10 years
03:06 < RangerZ|Laptop> "getting money out of politics" (not really, but allowing laws to limit it)
03:06 <@Corydon76-home> So it doesn't matter if he was born in Hawaii or Kenya; he's still a natural born American
03:07 < RangerZ|Laptop> I think we'll get to ~60% of states passing calls for a constitutional convention, and then congress, not wanting to have its power usurped, and to be written off as the only/congress inept enough to let a convention happen... will pass the amendment (just as has happened several times in the past)
03:08 <@Corydon76-home> I think Texas will turn blue, first
03:08 < RangerZ|Laptop> 2 states have already called for the convetion, NH and Cali
03:08 < RangerZ|Laptop> not if they enact every voter ID policy possible
03:08 < RangerZ|Laptop> I think GA is better bet
03:08 < RangerZ|Laptop> basically like only 4% of the Blacks vote there
03:09 <@Corydon76-home> Yes, but the thing about Texas turning blue is that it's mathematically impossible for the Republicans to win the White House without Texas
03:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> if they voted at 60% , it would be a 100% blue state, for state wide elections
03:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> yep, unless CA becomes 6 states
03:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol
03:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> which will be on the ballot in 2016
03:09 <@Corydon76-home> That won't happen
03:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> I dunno, we'll see, Its a gerrymandering scheme like no other
03:10 <@Corydon76-home> They constitutionally need Congress to assent, and given that a breakup of California would dilute all their votes, they'd never vote to allow it
03:10 < RangerZ|Laptop> and to stop tax dollars from silicon valley from going to poor parts of the state, lol
03:10 < RangerZ|Laptop> but its 2 red, 2 blue, 2 purple states
03:10 < RangerZ|Laptop> so its not 'impossible' that they wouldn't vote for it, but *shrugs*
03:11 < RangerZ|Laptop> either way... I feel bad for aestetix_
03:11 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c 2016 is going to be a shit year to live in cali, with all the political ads all year
03:11 < RangerZ|Laptop> hell it might start next year ... lol
03:11 <@Corydon76-home> and 10 more senators in Congress
03:13 <@Corydon76-home> A Republican House might vote to allow the "red" areas to split off from the rest of the state, but a blue Senate would never allow just that... and the Democrats would filibuster it, if the Senate turned red
03:15 < RangerZ|Laptop> doesn't matter, filabuster is pretty much gone forever
03:15 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c republicans will just throw it out when they get in power next
03:15 < RangerZ|Laptop> but thankfully constition requires 66% to pas
03:15 < RangerZ|Laptop> pass*
03:16 <@Corydon76-home> To pass what?
03:16 < RangerZ|Laptop> new states
03:16 <@Corydon76-home> Constitution doesn't say anything of the sort
03:17 <@Corydon76-home> Article IV, Section 3.
03:18 < RangerZ|Laptop> hmm, i dunno, everything i heard on it says they needed 60% ot 66%, i'll have to look
03:19 < RangerZ|Laptop> but I bet puerto rico will be 51st, if their debt situation isn't handled, lol
03:19 <@Corydon76-home> You may be confusing the requirements for admitting a new state with the requirements for amending the Constitution
03:20 <@Corydon76-home> and as far as the filibuster rule, I doubt the Republicans will mess with it at all
03:21 < RangerZ|Laptop> nah they will
03:21 < RangerZ|Laptop> to spite the democrats
03:21 <@Corydon76-home> It's why Harry Reid was very selective about varying the rule when it came to confirmations
03:21 < RangerZ|Laptop> who got rid of it for non-constitutional appointments
03:21 < RangerZ|Laptop> yeah, but its short-term Machiavellian , which is how the GOP operates right now
03:22 < RangerZ|Laptop> if they were long-term or even medium term, they would have passed immigration legislation
03:22 < RangerZ|Laptop> among other things
03:22 < RangerZ|Laptop> but perhaps it is only 50%
03:23 < RangerZ|Laptop> unless we're both missing something
03:24 <@Corydon76-home> ACLU mails me pocket copies of the US Constitution annually, so I have a couple right in front of me for quick reference
03:24 < RangerZ|Laptop> but in more important news... I'm trying out a new way of cooking pulled pork
03:25 < RangerZ|Laptop> so this'll be interesting tomorrow afternoon, lol
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04:17 < RangerZ|Laptop> wtf... my PS Vita has Google Maps app, since it has GPS... lol
04:19 <@Corydon76-home> Ever heard of owncloud?
04:20 <@Corydon76-home> I'm looking at it as a way to leverage existing cloud disk for Dropbox-like service
04:28 < aestetix_> ugh
04:28 < aestetix_> I hate lyft and uber
04:29 < aestetix_> It's really sad that there are people who boycott Walmart and yet use Lyft
04:56 < RangerZ1> Corydon76-home: BT cloud or w/e they call it is really nice
04:56 < RangerZ1> but I'd want to host my own tracker, not use theirs
04:56 < RangerZ1> or at least my own, and maybe backups of friends' trackers
04:56 < RangerZ1> aestetix_: why do you hate lyft and uber?
04:57 < RangerZ1> they are great business models, for the next ~15 years
04:57 <@Corydon76-home> They're great business models while the economy is still recovering
04:57 < RangerZ1> once self-driving cars are viable, most people are going to stop buying cars, and just pay a monthly fee to have access to yellow-cab (or some other company)'s fleet of vehicles
04:58 < RangerZ1> so you can rent a 1 person for to/from work
04:58 < RangerZ1> or a 2 person for a date night/etc
04:58 <@Corydon76-home> Once we're back to full employment, they fail
04:58 < RangerZ1> or a SUV for camping
04:58 < RangerZ1> nah, I think if they offer a service for cheaper than normal taxi, they will be fine
04:58 < RangerZ1> normal taxi just has been stubborn and not offered its own taxis on there IMHO
04:59 <@Corydon76-home> Yes, but cities don't like the fact that they're offering an equivalent service, while ducking the regulations meant to ensure public safety and cleanliness
04:59 < RangerZ1> lol... you mean.... they aren't paying the taxi taxes
05:00 < RangerZ1> and the taxi companies love that tax/limit # of taxis per city
05:00 <@Corydon76-home> You can call it whatever you like
05:01 <@Corydon76-home> airbnb is learning the hard way that sometimes clients aren't as good hearted as they initially seemed
05:01 <@Corydon76-home> Lack of regulation only works as long as everybody agrees to play fair
05:04 <@Corydon76-home> It's only a matter of time before a bad actor takes advantage of Lyft or Uber, and bad press (and possibly loss of life/property) will be the result
05:04 < aestetix_> RangerZ1: uhhhhhh
05:05 < RangerZ1> ?
05:05 < aestetix_> RangerZ1: you realize there are laws for taxis, and the only reason lyft and uber have done so well is they skirt around the laws
05:05 < RangerZ1> yeah i know
05:05 < RangerZ1> and?
05:05 < aestetix_> Also, what's going to happen is that dozens of local taxi services are going to die out and be replaced by a single company
05:05 < aestetix_> And then uber will replace them all with self driving cars, which will put everyone out of a job
05:05 < aestetix_> So it's actually fucking over a lot of people
05:05 < RangerZ1> ohh no, I expect them to city hop, for a while, as cities play whack a mole
05:06 < aestetix_> It is indeed disruption. It's disrupting small businesses who can't afford to fight back
05:06 < aestetix_> And none of these startups are doing anything about the big problems we have
05:06 < aestetix_> It's basically going to become a walmart of taxis
05:06 < RangerZ1> ohh no... you want to talk about job-destroying tech... self-driving cars, kills taxis and more importantly.... SEMIs
05:06 < aestetix_> anyways, afk for a bit
05:06 <@Corydon76-home> aestetix_: Nah, Lyft will suffer the same as airbnb with a bad actor, and the same with Uber
05:06 < aestetix_> Corydon76-home: I hope so.
05:07 < aestetix_> RangerZ1: for all you call me a libertarian, I am very much in favor of government regulation of thisshit
05:07 < RangerZ1> lol
05:07 < RangerZ1> why though?
05:07 < RangerZ1> so people keep their jobs?
05:07 < RangerZ1> b/c buggy whip manf. would love that ;) hehe
05:08 < aestetix_> RangerZ1: raed The Master Switch
05:08 < RangerZ1> but I agree with you that there should be laws to cover this
05:08 < RangerZ1> however, I see no problem with me renting out my spare bedroom to a stranger
05:08 <@Corydon76-home> RangerZ1: because bad people exist who will take advantage of the lack of protections
05:08 < RangerZ1> thats what I'm about getting ready to do, but mine will be for a year
05:09 <@Corydon76-home> There's a reason taxi drivers are in constant contact with their dispatchers
05:09 <@Corydon76-home> and that constant contact deters some crime where the taxi driver might otherwise be a victim
05:09 < RangerZ1> should our laws be designed to combat the bad actors, or all actors where bad actors can exist?
05:10 < RangerZ1> b/c thats where this boils down to
05:10 <@Corydon76-home> It's an ounce of prevention
05:10 < RangerZ1> ok? so have all lyft/uber drivers have to call before/after every call into a dispatcher
05:10 < RangerZ1> if thats all it takes to prevent crime
05:11 <@Corydon76-home> I agree that regulations can sometimes be heavy handed, but there is a point
05:11 < RangerZ1> yes, I agree
05:11 < RangerZ1> however, the taxi industry has been using it to be anti-competative for too long
05:12 <@Corydon76-home> The taxi industry has regulated rates, too
05:12 <@Corydon76-home> Ensures that drivers can make a living
05:12 < RangerZ1> new taxi companies CAN NOT start up in most cities, b/c the taxi companies have had a limit on total # of both companies/cars per city passed in most major cities
05:12 <@Corydon76-home> Yep, falls under ensuring drivers can make a living doing that job
05:13 <@Corydon76-home> Too many drivers means that nobody makes enough
05:13 < RangerZ1> And I would consider that corporate welfare
05:13 < RangerZ1> then drivers should ask for salary/hourly
05:13 < RangerZ1> and if companies fail, then they fail
05:14 <@Corydon76-home> Drivers are independent contractors.  There's no union, in most cases
05:14 < RangerZ1> and then new inovators will rise to fill the demand their departure leaves
05:14 < RangerZ1> thats a shame too, they should unionize , but thankfully we've gotten rid of that concept in our country... :/
05:14 <@Corydon76-home> Ah, yes, the belief in the almighty market that causes not enough taxis, because nobody can make a living at it
05:15 < RangerZ1> but actually... I'm encouraged by the newest ruling about how McDonalds is responsible for ALL McD's nationwide, and can't hide behind 'franchise'-ness
05:16 < RangerZ1> ohh no... I don't believe in an -all-mighty- market, I believe in allowing bad business models to fail though.
05:16 <@Corydon76-home> This isn't a bad business model
05:16 <@Corydon76-home> It's designed to ensure that when you need a taxi, you can get one
05:16 < RangerZ1> no, its not, b/c right now it has laws passed to prevent it from becoming one...
05:17 <@Corydon76-home> and that the taxi will be clean, and driver will be safe
05:18 <@Corydon76-home> Taking out the laws supporting the taxi industry ensures a race to the bottom
05:19 < RangerZ1> who said anything about 'taking out' , I have just said they have used it to prevent innovation
05:19 < RangerZ1> we can adjust them
05:19 <@Corydon76-home> It's a similar matter to elimating apartment regulations will ensure that you'll have slums
05:20 <@Corydon76-home> RangerZ1: you're aware that Nashville has a taxi commissiion, right?
05:20 < RangerZ1> very much so, I've had a meeting with them...
05:21 < RangerZ1> not on this matter
05:21 < RangerZ1> but on a pree-review site/app for them to roll out
05:21 < RangerZ1> so customers can rate taxis
05:22 < RangerZ1> it was an entry in the city innovation competition, lol
05:22 < RangerZ1> got to finals
05:23 < RangerZ1> but anyways, I think its a moot point, b/c once self-driving vehicles exist, taxi drivers, and _more_ importantly, truck drivers are going to no longer exist
05:23 < RangerZ1> at most truck drivers are going to be downgraded to manual labor for loading/unloading the truck
05:23 < RangerZ1> and 'maybe' taxi drivers to similar-smaller scale role, for people who need assistance
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05:25 <@Corydon76-home> I think you're a bit overly-optimistic on how quickly the taxi industry will adopt self-driving vehicles.
05:26 < RangerZ|Laptop> ohh i don't think they will adapt at all, and that they will be taken over in a storm quickly, b/c it won't be 'taxis' it will be like zipcar
05:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> I know for a fact that I'd pay 100$/yr to join zipcar for that service, if I can rent cars for 1) daily commute 2) long trips back home so I can sleep while going there, 3) camping/etc
05:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> or trucks for moving big furniture/moving
05:32 <@Corydon76-home> I also think you've overly optimistic about the use of self-driving vehicles on public roads
05:33 < RangerZ|Laptop> i think its still 15~20 years out
05:33 < RangerZ|Laptop> but I think 5~10 of that will be social fear
05:35 <@Corydon76-home> I'd say it's likely that we'll see private roads just for the purpose of the self-driving vehicles, first
05:35 < RangerZ|Laptop> I think its going to be legal in NV/Cali/and other warm weather states first
05:35 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c ice/snow is going to be the hardest
05:36 < RangerZ|Laptop> that or rain/leaves
05:36 <@Corydon76-home> Or tornado/wind
05:36 <@Corydon76-home> Downed branches/power-lines
05:37 <@Corydon76-home> In an idealized circumstance, I think they'll work great.  Stick a few non-ideal circumstances in there, and that vehicle is never going to arrive at its intended destination until _hours_ after it was originally predicted
05:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> *shrugs*, despite being the 2nd author on a journal paper for computer graphics... I don't really know much about computer vision, lol
05:39 <@Corydon76-home> If _all_ vehicles on the road are programmed that way, you can create a very efficient system.  Stick a few machines on their with unpredictable programming (i.e. humans), and chaos will result.
05:40 <@Corydon76-home> And my tiredness is beginning to show with grammar mistakes, so I'm going to bed
05:40 < RangerZ|Laptop> maybe, but I'd rather go at 35MPH if I don't have to pay attention than 70 and have to drive
05:40 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol
05:40 < RangerZ|Laptop> but alright, nighty night
06:07 < aestetix_> and back
08:21 <@Shadow404> has anyone had knee surgery?
08:31 <@oddball> I know a few folks that have
08:35 < RangerZ|Laptop> Shadow404: I quit wrestling so I wouldn't need it
08:35 < RangerZ|Laptop> and know a bunch of people who had it also
08:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> just keep this in mind... just list or last year... we found a new part to the knee
08:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> this* or last
08:41 <@oddball> Really?  huh
08:42 <@brimstone> "allegedly"
08:42 <@brimstone> most people around here seem to think it's just a split ligament or whatever
08:43 < RangerZ|Laptop> *shrugs* i saw it on the internet, so it has to be true
08:43 < RangerZ|Laptop> but sure, it could be a defect in a person's knee, but interesting either way
09:49 <@Dagmar> Knee surgery is LOTS of fun, depending entirely on what type of surgery
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10:14 <@wilpig> http://www.wired.com/2014/08/how-to-use-your-cat-to-hack-your-neighbors-wi-fi/?mbid=social_fb
10:14 <@GateKeeper> Title: How to Use Your Cat to Hack Your Neighbors Wi-Fi | Threat Level | WIRED (at www.wired.com)
10:50 < RangerZ|Laptop> wilpig: I linked a video talking about it last night to dagmar
10:51 < RangerZ|Laptop> so great news.... new pulled pork cooking method has come out very well...
10:55 <@wilpig> does yours involve a drill like critch's does?  if not then it's subpar
11:01 < RangerZ|Laptop> it can
11:02 < RangerZ|Laptop> but a fork and knife is enough
11:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> slow cooked in seasonings and water vs smoke and flavor
11:10 < RangerZ|Laptop> but still, if you want crazypants to put a pig~gimp suit on you, and tie you up and put you over a fire... she probably would
11:11 <@wilpig> yeah... no.
11:11 < RangerZ|Laptop> hell thats probably one of her fantasies about dagmar
11:12 < RangerZ|Laptop> I generally don't like people touching me, so I would have reflexively swung out and probably backhanded slapped her hand/arm if she had _played with my hair_ like she did to him , lol
11:15 <@wilpig> RangerZ|Laptop: if you run from her you can't rape her though.  
11:15 <@wilpig> that is directly counter to her claims that everyone wants to rape her
11:17 <@Bahhumbug> Seriously.  Even rapists have standards.
11:23 < RangerZ|Laptop> even horse rapists have standards
11:24 < RangerZ|Laptop> wilpig: https://www.purrfectarch.com/ you think your cats would use this?
11:24 <@GateKeeper> Title: Purrfect Arch | Official TV Site (at www.purrfectarch.com)
11:25 <@Bahhumbug> Mine would.
11:26 <@wilpig> RangerZ|Laptop: you never know.  cats are fuckin' weird
11:33 < RangerZ|Laptop> i saw it on a commercial, and though it was stupid enough to just maybe work
11:37 <@Dagmar> I can see some cats passing out from just looking at it
11:37 <@Dagmar> Oh jesus it's got crack in the base
11:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> yep
11:38 <@Dagmar> That's a good way to bleed a lot
11:40 < RangerZ|Laptop> I'm thinking you could use this to attract strays , and capture them to get them spayed/neutered(sp?) and you could solve homeless cats in a few days
11:40 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol
11:42 < RangerZ|Laptop> is catnip _really_ as bad as that?
11:43 < RangerZ|Laptop> Despite having outside cats for years... we never gave them catnip, so I have no idea
11:44 <@wilpig> RangerZ|Laptop: it affects different cats differently
11:44 < RangerZ|Laptop> Dagmar: want to put some beer in it, and take it to the next 2600 meeting? and plot it on the table right infront of her ? hehe
11:44 <@wilpig> Mirage's cats can care less about it
11:44 <@wilpig> one of mine goes out of her mind and get uber hyperactive  the other just rolls in it and looks stoned
11:49 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol
11:54 <@Dagmar> RangerZ|Laptop: Poisoned animal traps are illegal in this state
11:54 <@wilpig> heh
12:12 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: *Some* cats lose all control over their claws and teeth when they're nipped
12:12 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: THese are the ones to watch out for
12:13 <@Dagmar> If you trained a cat right (usually starting as a kitten) they're just barely using their claws on you
12:13 <@Dagmar> You wanna bleed, a *lot*, then give a cat 'nip without a "test dose" first
12:32 <@wilpig> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ESCB_-8L994
12:32 <@GateKeeper> Title: Molly Schuyler vs The Big Texan 72 oz steak challenge x 2 - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
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17:30 <@SuMo_D> wheeeeeeeeee
17:59 < aestetix_> god I hate fauxminists
19:50 < RangerZ|Laptop> aestetix_: obviously not, you have a tumblr account
19:50 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol
19:51 <@Bahhumbug> RangerZ|Laptop: Do you have a tumblr account?
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19:59 < RangerZ|Laptop> no
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20:00 < RangerZ|Laptop> i never quite understood the point of it, I'm used to 2chan/4chan where being anonymous was the point
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20:11 <@Corydon76-home> RangerZ|Laptop: Tumblr is porn for jailbait
20:12 <@Corydon76-home> That's it, in a nutshell
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22:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> anyone with a mac on?
22:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> I'm wondering if the commands written here:  https://gitlab.com/help/ssh/ssh.md will work by default on a mac
22:39 < RangerZ|Laptop> or more likely ...'what' will need installed to make it work
22:42 <@Dagmar> OpenSSH.
22:42 <@Dagmar> ...or DropBear
22:43 <@brimstone> You need to sign in before continuing.%
22:45 < RangerZ|Laptop> really?
22:45 < RangerZ|Laptop> thats odd
22:46 < RangerZ|Laptop> https://help.github.com/articles/generating-ssh-keys same instructions here
22:46 <@brimstone> curl it bro
22:46 < RangerZ|Laptop> just really "ssh-keygen -t rsa -C "your_email@example.com""
22:46 <@brimstone> that'll work on a mac
22:46 <@brimstone> if it's on github, it'll work on a mac
22:46 <@Dagmar> heheh
22:48 < RangerZ|Laptop> well, I don't have a Mac, and don't really care about it personally, but writing up a lesson plan... :/
22:55 <@Bahhumbug> Personally I'd make rsa keys at least 4k instead of the default 2k.
22:58 < RangerZ|Laptop> well yeah... if I cared about their security... lol
22:58 < RangerZ|Laptop> but yeah, I might actually tell them to do that
23:00 < aestetix_> Man
23:00 < aestetix_> I wonder if I could get the city of Oakland to pass regulations about uber
23:00 < RangerZ|Laptop> What manual page do you want?
23:00 < RangerZ|Laptop> damn too late
23:00 <@Dagmar> For what they're doing, 2048 bits is plenty
23:00 < RangerZ|Laptop> aestetix_: there already is
23:01 <@Dagmar> You're going to have like 10% of the people emailing their damn secret keys to you as it is
23:01 < aestetix_> really?
23:01 < RangerZ|Laptop> of course
23:01 < RangerZ|Laptop> its always illegal
23:01 < RangerZ|Laptop> just cops don't have time to deal with it, busting people with pot
23:01 < aestetix_> thanks to the federal government for that
23:01 < RangerZ|Laptop> more like racists in the 30s, but yeah
23:02 < aestetix_> uhhhh
23:02 < aestetix_> same thing?
23:02 < aestetix_> I mean yes I know about the 1937 act
23:02 < aestetix_> but really, the issue is the DEA
23:02 < RangerZ|Laptop> "gotta pass law against pot b/c those mexicans smoke it "
23:02 < RangerZ|Laptop> but I don't think the DEA is actually the problem anymore
23:03 <@Corydon76-home> Yeah, why bother with anything more than 2048 bits for an asymmetric key?
23:03 < RangerZ|Laptop> its the fact that DEA would get fucking annihilated in public if it made pot a class 2 drug
23:03 < RangerZ|Laptop> Corydon76-home:  b/c 2048 really isn't that secure anymore
23:03 <@Corydon76-home> Uh, we just got through transitioning from 1024 bits to 2048 bits
23:04 < aestetix_> well
23:04 < aestetix_> 1024 bit rsa is clearly not secure
23:04 < aestetix_> 2048 bit rsa is a lot better
23:04 <@Corydon76-home> Because 1024 bits is at least potentially crackable by large governments with a lot of resources
23:04 < aestetix_> RangerZ|Laptop: and that's an issue why?
23:04 < aestetix_> I'd love to see the DEA go down
23:04 <@Corydon76-home> It's not the asymmetric key you need to really worry about.  It's the symmetric keys that are being exchanged below that
23:04 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c 're'al politics' or however you accent it when you say it in the faux french accent
23:05 <@Corydon76-home> If the symmetric keys are still only 128 bits wide, that's where your weak point is
23:05 < RangerZ|Laptop> basically... DEA is a branch of a politically appointed president
23:06 < RangerZ|Laptop> if DEA was staffed/lead by non-political appointees, we might actually get better drug policy
23:06 < aestetix_> RangerZ|Laptop: that's what we call the FDA
23:06 < aestetix_> That is, the FDA cares about science.
23:07 < RangerZ|Laptop> well, let me rephrase... the FDA should reclassify pot, and then the DEA can 'reclassify its priorities' about pot
23:07 < aestetix_> I agree
23:07 < aestetix_> wait. I agree with RangerZ|Laptop?
23:08 <@Corydon76-home> The FDA _can't_ reclassify pot.  It's one of the drugs encoded into Federal Law.
23:08 < RangerZ|Laptop> my understanding was that they could now
23:08 <@Corydon76-home> Besides which, the prohibition on marijuana legalization is subject to an international treaty, and treaties override laws
23:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c of this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/24/fda-marijuana_n_5526634.html
23:09 <@GateKeeper> Title: FDA To Evaluate Marijuana For Potential Reclassification As Less Dangerous Drug (at www.huffingtonpost.com)
23:09 <@Corydon76-home> We'd have to first back out of the treaty
23:09 < aestetix_> Maybe on his last day of office Obama could just write an executive order
23:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> that would only last 24hr then
23:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> lol
23:09 < RangerZ|Laptop> executive orders aren't law
23:09 <@Corydon76-home> aestetix_: I'd like to see him attempt a blanket pardon
23:10 < RangerZ|Laptop> they are just 'clarifications' on how to interpret laws
23:10 < aestetix_> I would love that.
23:10 < aestetix_> So here's a question.
23:10 < aestetix_> Does al Qaeda actually post a threat to us anymore?
23:10 < aestetix_> I mean, we have basically decimated them.
23:10 < aestetix_> Right
23:10 < aestetix_> ?
23:10 <@Corydon76-home> Yes, inasmuch as al Qaeda ever posed a direct threat
23:10 < RangerZ|Laptop> 'directly' no
23:11 < RangerZ|Laptop> but 'al qaeda' itself no longer matters
23:11 < RangerZ|Laptop> its like the newest batman series of movies, you don't create a person, you create an idea
23:11 < RangerZ|Laptop> a 'symbol'
23:11 < aestetix_> I'm loooking at this from a mathematician's viewpoint: what's the most efficient and simplest way to make the problem go away
23:11 <@Corydon76-home> You have to understand that 9/11 was basically a case where they got very, very lucky during a time when we weren't paying attention
23:11 < RangerZ|Laptop> and thats what they are now
23:11 < aestetix_> Corydon76-home: yes
23:12 < RangerZ|Laptop> aestetix_: simpliest way in the long run, is to diverge from oil
23:12 < RangerZ|Laptop> if oil was useless, we would go back to the middle east being pointless again
23:12 <@Corydon76-home> aestetix_: most efficient way is for us to stop propping up dictators
23:12 < aestetix_> Except for the whole religion thing
23:12 < RangerZ|Laptop> nah, thats only a problem b/c of money
23:13 <@Corydon76-home> and that includes the government of Israel
23:13 < aestetix_> So can we get electric airplanes and trucks, in addition to cars?
23:13 < RangerZ|Laptop> let people fight and die over dunes of sand, for all eternity for all I care
23:13 < RangerZ|Laptop> yes, an all electric plane just completed the around the world trip IIRC
23:13 < RangerZ|Laptop> in many stages
23:14 <@Corydon76-home> RangerZ|Laptop: dunes of sand contain silicon, the basis of computing
23:14 < RangerZ|Laptop> so?
23:14 < RangerZ|Laptop> sahara
23:14 < RangerZ|Laptop> most of NV
23:14 < RangerZ|Laptop> crazypants' crotch
23:14 < RangerZ|Laptop> lots of sand exists
23:16 <@Bahhumbug> RangerZ|Laptop: +1
23:16 <@Bahhumbug> That made me lol for real.
23:16 < aestetix_> In other news
23:17 < aestetix_> I really like Dan Geer's suggestion that when you stop supporting software, make it open source
23:17 < aestetix_> IE all microsofot windows before XP
23:18 < RangerZ|Laptop> I'm not sure how I feel about that, but perhaps a window afterwards, of maybe 5 years at most
23:18 < RangerZ|Laptop> but also... what about 'free upgrades' ?
23:18 < aestetix_> That's another good approach.
23:18 < RangerZ|Laptop> we no longer support version 1.04 version of our software, but we support 1.30+
23:18 < RangerZ|Laptop> should 1.04 be OSS then?
23:19 < aestetix_> The entire point is if we have infrastructure running on old software, the infrastructure is fucked.
23:19 < RangerZ|Laptop> yep, always has been that way
23:19 < aestetix_> With software.
23:19 < RangerZ|Laptop> thats why IBM loves evolving tech
23:19 < RangerZ|Laptop> OS + hardware are still basically sold as a unit
23:20 < aestetix_> Ok so if you build a house, and a year later the roof falls in, can the builder just say "sorry we don't suport that"
23:20 < RangerZ|Laptop> buildings != software
23:20 < aestetix_> Oh really.
23:20 < RangerZ|Laptop> thats a bad strawman
23:20 < aestetix_> What is the difference
23:20 < RangerZ|Laptop> there are some books on the topic in the software engineering/design area
23:21 < aestetix_> I can get a patent on a new kind of roof. I can also get a patent on a piece of source code.
23:21 < RangerZ|Laptop> no, you can't, you can get copyright on the code, and 'patent' on the "transformative nature" of the code (or whatever leagal term they are using now)
23:22 < aestetix_> Wait wait wait.
23:22 < aestetix_> YOu're telling me you can't get patents on software?
23:22 < RangerZ|Laptop> i'm telling you, that you can't get patents on 'specific' software, correct, You _can_ get patents on what the software _does_
23:23 < aestetix_> And I can't get a patent on a bunch of boards and nails, but I can get a patent on them when they are pounded out into a roof
23:23 < RangerZ|Laptop> so even if I implement the software with different source code, your patent still holds value
23:24 < RangerZ|Laptop> actually I doubt you could get a patent on just a 'roof' now b/c of public domain, and roofs existing for a long time
23:24 < RangerZ|Laptop> but if you invented a new way to build roofs, or a new way to do the construction, then sure
23:24 <@Dagmar> Sure you can
23:24 <@Dagmar> You just state that the roof goes over the internet and they give you the patent
23:24 < aestetix_> haha
23:25 < RangerZ|Laptop> so apparently the 'on the internt' patents are starting to be rejected
23:25 < RangerZ|Laptop> but the back-log of already approved patents is too much
23:25 < RangerZ|Laptop> plus our legal system about patents makes it so that people refuse to argue against patents before they are approved
23:26 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c if you lose, you can't EVER use that evidence again, against the patent
23:26 < aestetix_> So this whole "you can't patent code" is a backlash to the patent trolls issue?
23:26 < RangerZ|Laptop> no, thats always been the way its been
23:26 <@Corydon76-home> SCOTUS just ruled during the last term that business patents akin to "take something known and add a computer to it" are no longer patentable
23:26 < RangerZ|Laptop> aestetix_: its just legal distinction, in 'practice' its been basically 'the idea of how the code would work' , without having to have the code itself
23:27 < RangerZ|Laptop> which is even worse
23:27 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c you could patent things that you didn't even actually code
23:27 <@Corydon76-home> I've seen a very few things where a software patent actually was legitimate
23:28 <@Corydon76-home> New methods of compressing audio or video, for example
23:28 < RangerZ|Laptop> our patent system has gone under some drastic changes, to prevent people from ever-lasting continuing patents, but unfortunately thats still like 20+20 years at the most or something like that
23:28 < RangerZ|Laptop> our copyright is going to get extended this year too
23:28 <@Corydon76-home> 17 years, actually
23:29 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c the original mickey mouse will go into public domain next year
23:29 <@Corydon76-home> Patents don't get extended
23:29 <@Corydon76-home> Steamboat Willie!
23:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> I was told that there is still some way to 'extend'(you have to show further improvement on them) them, I don't know how, etc
23:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> but its hard to get approved
23:30 < RangerZ|Laptop> and very little does
23:30 <@Corydon76-home> G.729B is one example of that extension
23:31 <@Corydon76-home> G.723 is about to have its last patent expire this month, if my calculations are correct
23:31 < RangerZ|Laptop> but yeah, either way... in general our patent system has improved a lot recently, but I don't know how i feel about the change from 'first to file' to 'first to invent'
23:31 <@Corydon76-home> I think you mean the reverse
23:32 <@Corydon76-home> First to file is presently invalidated by prior art
23:33 <@Corydon76-home> But if the first inventor gets a patent, no matter when they file, then people who don't believe in patents really won't have a choice.
23:33 < RangerZ|Laptop> yeah, sorry, but either way, I don't know how I feel about the change
23:34 < RangerZ|Laptop> but either way, Software patents are the last big frontier of patents that need to be done away with, now that 'naturally occurring genetic code' can't be patented
23:34 <@Corydon76-home> Business method patents need to completely go away, first
23:35 < aestetix_> Why not abolish the patent office and make it a state issued thing?
23:35 < RangerZ|Laptop> I think software ones are easier to deal with, and would give precedent for 'business model' patents, but *shrugs*
23:35 < RangerZ|Laptop> b/c states would disagree, and then who deals with it then
23:36 < aestetix_> RangerZ|Laptop: who deals with it when countries disagree?
23:36 < RangerZ|Laptop> WTO, but WTO has no, and can't legally have treaties with US states
23:36 <@wilpig> north korea will mediate
23:36 < aestetix_> lol
23:36 <@wilpig> they invented everything already anyway
23:37 < aestetix_> Why not have the states negotiate among themselves?
23:37 <@Corydon76-home> With what money?
23:38 <@Corydon76-home> You're trying to offload more responsibility on the states, when they're already having budget issues
23:38 < aestetix_> Or better yet, just abolish patents period.
23:38 <@Corydon76-home> That would take a Constitutional amendment
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23:39 < aestetix_> Corydon76-home: beacuse the federal government has no budget issues.
23:40 < RangerZ|Laptop> true
23:40 <@Corydon76-home> aestetix_: It doesn't.  Federal government is empowered to take on more debt at will
23:40 < RangerZ|Laptop> it can just print 1 trillion dollar coins
23:40 < aestetix_> hahah
23:40 <@Corydon76-home> States are not.  States must have a balanced budget every year
23:41 < aestetix_> I think that's only some states.
23:41 < RangerZ|Laptop> over 40+
23:41 < RangerZ|Laptop> most have it as a state constitutional part
23:41 < aestetix_> Which winds up backfiring because states that have a surplus also get in trouble
23:41 <@Corydon76-home> States can raise extra money through the bond market
23:41 <@Corydon76-home> Or they can have a rainy day fund
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23:42 -!- DrKlixa is now known as klixa
23:42 <@Corydon76-home> But states don't have an eternal slush fund, like the Federal gov't
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 11 00:00:16 2014