--- Log opened Fri Jul 11 00:00:47 2014 00:15 -!- Dolemite [~scott@h96-60-248-228.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:18 <@Dagmar> evilpig: A smurf learned the hard way tonight that nighttime is MY time 00:18 <@Dagmar> I got about 200 free reso deployment counts and cost him a shitton of bursters 00:19 <@Dagmar> Standing quietly in the bushes still wearing the stuff I wore into the office. 00:19 <@Dagmar> I started to just sneak up behind him, but he had his 7-year-old with him and I didn't want to terrify the kiddo 00:21 <@evilpig> heh 00:21 <@Dagmar> Dude was gettin' up*set* 00:21 <@Dagmar> *chuckle* 00:21 <@evilpig> bah. guess i'm gonna pass out. i have shit I should be doing but just not feeling it. night 00:22 <@Dagmar> I started to just keep on going until he completely ran out of bursters 00:22 <@Dagmar> The next time I absolutely will 00:22 <@Dagmar> ..and I'll scurry up a tree so they'll have zero chance of finding me. 00:22 <@Dagmar> ...and fucking video it. :) 00:23 <@Dagmar> I still have 397L7 resonators and 167L8 resonators 00:25 -!- sasquatc4 [~sasquatc4@73.181.12.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:27 -!- sasquatc4 [~sasquatc4@73.181.12.16] has joined #se2600 00:28 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o sasquatc4] by ChanServ 00:28 < RangerZ|Laptop> nice 00:30 <@Dagmar> Yeah I think I might be getting soft 00:30 <@Dagmar> ...or it was the heat and bugs bothering me. 00:31 <@Dagmar> Dude was pretty invested in taking those two portals from me 00:31 <@Dagmar> I think ther'es a pretty good chance I could have made him use up *all* his busters. 00:32 <@Dagmar> Oh god 00:32 <@Dagmar> Wait until you see the next iteration of the religious zealots gif 00:39 <@Corydon76-home> Dagmar: it's always a win when you make a father swear a blue streak in front of his impressionable youngster 00:39 <@Dagmar> THat's another thing I wouldn't make him do 00:39 <@Dagmar> I was *very* close to them 00:40 <@Dagmar> I'd started at 30m range, and they got out of their vehicle and stood right in the middle of the street between the two portals 00:40 -!- RangerZ|Laptop [~rangerz@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40 <@Dagmar> I could hear him telling his kid "He's gotta be *real* close. He's around here somewhere." 00:40 <@Dagmar> So I crept up behind the bushes until i was less then 10 feet away from them, knowing he'd see *that* on the game map too. 00:40 <@Dagmar> heheh 00:41 <@Dagmar> A slow witted person might have incorrectly deduced that I was standing on top of them 00:49 <@Corydon76-home> I was thinking more along the lines of "Godammit, how many fucking resonators does this asshole have?" 00:50 <@Corydon76-home> Swearing in terms of exasperation, not in terms of being surprised 00:51 <@Dagmar> I usuallt have like 800 or so 00:51 <@Dagmar> The important thing being that it takes about 3-5 bursters to take out a par level resonator 00:51 <@Dagmar> Meaning, does he have 2,400 bursters? 00:51 <@Dagmar> Considering the game has an inventory cap of 2,000 items, that would be a "No". 00:52 <@Dagmar> I'm *damn* sure I had enough power cubes to be able to deploy all those 00:52 <@Dagmar> It requires twice as much XM to fire those bursters as it does to deploy the resonators. 00:52 <@Dagmar> MATHS --- Log closed Fri Jul 11 01:15:19 2014 --- Log opened Fri Jul 11 01:48:14 2014 01:48 -!- evilpig [~wilpig@wilpig.org] has joined #se2600 01:48 -!- Irssi: #se2600: Total of 43 nicks [25 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 18 normal] 01:48 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o evilpig] by ChanServ 01:48 -!- Irssi: Join to #se2600 was synced in 19 secs 01:53 -!- Shadow404 [~shadow404@47.23.76.130] has joined #se2600 02:04 < aestetix_> this is bizarre 02:04 < aestetix_> https://imgur.com/a/0zOc1#eUoTfdH 02:04 < aestetix_> possibly nsfw 02:23 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #se2600 02:24 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o SuMo_D] by ChanServ 02:27 -!- SuMo_D_ [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #se2600 02:27 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38 -!- SuMo_D_ [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04 <@klixa> aestetix_: WTF 03:04 <@klixa> wow...whats wrong with these people 04:15 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07 -!- Dolemite [~scott@h96-60-248-228.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #se2600 06:07 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Dolemite] by ChanServ 06:16 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600 06:16 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ 06:21 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:22 < Ignotus-sdf> wow. I can't unsee that. 07:51 <@Bahhumbug> Ignotus-sdf: Piece of advice? Ignore any URL that aestetix_ posts; life is a lot more pleasant when you do. 08:05 <@opticron> I still don't understand the feeder/feedee kink...not sure I want to 08:06 < aestetix_> so silly question 08:06 < aestetix_> does the original half life run ok on modern systems? 08:09 < Ignotus-sdf> Bahhumbug: heh. point taken. 08:11 < Ignotus-sdf> brb. nightly wants to restart. 08:11 -!- Ignotus-sdf [42df39fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.223.57.251] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:12 -!- Ignotus-sdf [42df39fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.223.57.251] has joined #se2600 08:59 -!- K4k [~K4k@frontend.gtri.gatech.edu] has joined #se2600 08:59 -!- K4k [~K4k@frontend.gtri.gatech.edu] has quit [Changing host] 08:59 -!- K4k [~K4k@unaffiliated/k4k] has joined #se2600 09:07 <@opticron> aestetix_, I'd expect modern systems to blow it out of the water 09:11 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez! 09:11 < Ignotus-sdf> awesome. I was actually waiting for that. 09:11 <@Bahhumbug> Dolemite: You're late today :) 09:12 <@Dolemite> Yeah, been doing actual work 09:13 <@Dolemite> happens to the best of us 09:13 <@Bahhumbug> On a Friday?!? 09:14 <@Dolemite> yeah, well, if I work in the morning I can leave early in the afternoon ;) 09:16 * aestetix_ hugs Dolemite 09:21 -!- Bahhumbug [jrd@serentos/admin/jrd] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:21 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #se2600 09:21 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o SuMo_D] by ChanServ 09:26 -!- Bahhumbug [jrd@serentos/admin/jrd] has joined #se2600 09:26 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Bahhumbug] by ChanServ, GateKeeper 09:30 -!- Ignotus-sdf [42df39fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.223.57.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:41 < aestetix_> SuMo_D: http://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/comments/2a7i3z/my_stalker_from_12_years_ago_has_found_me_again/ 09:41 < aestetix_> does this shit happen often? 09:43 <@SuMo_D> I donno, but it has happened to me for sure 09:43 <@SuMo_D> can't speak for others on the subject 09:44 < aestetix_> god 09:44 < aestetix_> that's so fucked up 09:45 < aestetix_> I don't understand how a guy has so much energy and free time to do that 09:46 <@evilpig> that's like saying you don't understand how someone could go into a school/movie theater/mall and start shooting it up 09:46 <@evilpig> some people are just mentally unbalanced 09:46 < aestetix_> I also do not undersatnd that 09:46 <@evilpig> go visit a psych ward 09:48 < aestetix_> http://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/comments/2adkhg/update_my_stalker_from_12_years_ago_has_found_me/ 09:48 < aestetix_> there's an update 09:49 < aestetix_> the second link is more fucked up 09:49 < aestetix_> whatever happend to "dude get over it" 09:50 <@Bahhumbug> Not reading that. But whatever happened to stalkers getting beaten up by the brothers / whatever of those they are stalking? 09:50 <@Bahhumbug> If I had a sister that was being stalked by someone I can assure you it would not last for very long. 09:51 < aestetix_> I get obsessed over things like history 09:51 < aestetix_> I don't understand obsession over someone else 09:52 < aestetix_> see this is a place where I support government. it's good to have police to keep stalkers like this in jail 09:53 <@Bahhumbug> Waste of monetary reources. 09:53 <@Bahhumbug> Beat the shit out of them. If they continue, end 'em. 09:53 < aestetix_> heh 09:53 <@Bahhumbug> I am quite serious about this. 09:53 < aestetix_> fiar enough 09:53 < aestetix_> I really can't argue with that 09:56 <@Dagmar> New levels of stupid detected 09:56 <@Dagmar> I'm listening to two developer talking about how miserly it is that their application stopped working the moment their keys "ran out" 09:56 <@Dagmar> i.e., their fucking SSL certs expired 09:56 < aestetix_> Bahhumbug: it's like the guy got stuck in a loop 09:56 < aestetix_> Dagmar: do they know there are ways to fix that? 09:57 -!- Ignotus-sdf [42df39fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.223.57.251] has joined #se2600 09:57 <@Dagmar> I doubt it 09:57 <@Dagmar> Otherwise they wouldn't be having that conversation outside my office 09:58 <@Bahhumbug> "developers". 09:58 <@Bahhumbug> 'nuf said. 09:58 < aestetix_> how did they manage to get an SSL cert in the first place? 09:58 <@Bahhumbug> Had someone else do it? 09:59 <@Dagmar> Yep 09:59 < aestetix_> If they need someone to install an SSL cert for them, I'll do it for the low price of $500 09:59 < aestetix_> ssl cert price not included 09:59 <@Dagmar> There's another dev here that's going to get told to jsut piss off today 09:59 <@Bahhumbug> Excellent! 09:59 <@Dagmar> He wasted about a half hour of my time yesterday asking me questions about what they need to do to support one of _their_ customers 09:59 <@Dagmar> Fuck him 10:00 <@Dagmar> I'm going to speak with his manager abotu that one 10:00 <@Dagmar> Dude is fucking useless 10:00 <@Bahhumbug> In my experience most "developers" are a waste of carbon. 10:00 <@Dagmar> Like, if you promised some external organization hosting on "your" site, which _we_ fucking run, then you'd goddamn well better know how to do this shit 10:01 <@Dagmar> aestetix_: I thinkt that /r/nosleep person might be overreacting 10:01 < aestetix_> if you want to be mean 10:01 <@Dagmar> ...ebcause basically that's what /r/nosleep does 10:01 < aestetix_> Dagmar: read the second one 10:01 < aestetix_> the second one is really messed up 10:02 <@Dagmar> Right. Grind him and plant him then 10:03 <@Dagmar> He can serve an excellent and much needed purpose as plant fertilizer 10:03 < aestetix_> Someone who pulls that kind of shit really kind of deserves the meat grinder 10:04 < aestetix_> the polite version of the second link is that he broke into her house while she wasn't home 10:06 <@Dagmar> That's the sort of behaviour you shouldn't be able to post bail for 10:06 <@Dagmar> I am finding it unusual the police didn't schedule him for a psych evaluation 10:06 <@Bahhumbug> +1 on the fertilizer idea 10:07 <@Dagmar> nosleep attracts a number of people who are just into telling "a good story" so take anything you see there with a grain of salt 10:08 <@Bahhumbug> You just described most of reddit :) 10:08 < aestetix_> haha 10:09 <@evilpig> what is it about eggs from a well seasoned cast iron skillet taste so damned good? 10:09 <@Dagmar> Grease 10:10 <@evilpig> Dagmar: do you honestly want the police making determinations on who they think might be mentally ill? 10:10 <@Dagmar> WHat other conclusion would you draw from a B&E where the suspect is found naked, surrounded in someone else's underwear? 10:11 <@evilpig> drunk and stumbled into the wrong house and he crawled into a bed he thought was his but someone was doing laundry on and just hadn't put them up yet 10:12 < aestetix_> Dagmar: the sad thing is, it's not too far from reality. 10:12 < aestetix_> I could totally see someone doing that 10:12 <@Dagmar> All of which is the sort of thing the investigating authors would be able to determine was a lie 10:12 <@evilpig> they should but in this day and age in our country all it takes it to give reasonable doubt to just one fucktard in a court 10:13 <@evilpig> we dont' use common sense anymore. 10:13 <@Dagmar> This is why you tell the cops "Do you like paperwork? because if this guy manages to make bail and comes back over here, you're going to have to document a homocide because I will just euthanize him on sight" 10:14 <@SuMo_D> aestetix_ and Dagmar yeah I've been through a lot of different shit in my life but yeah, the stalkers are the worst 10:14 <@SuMo_D> its so funny too cause I don't get hit on that often 10:14 <@evilpig> you just threatened the dude. now he can take out a restraining order on you and you can't take one out on him 10:14 <@Dagmar> Not a threat. A prediction of future events. 10:14 <@SuMo_D> but then I get some weirdos that are like DUDE I STILL LOVE YOU AFTER ALL THESE YEARS and show up places.... its like... ummmm... WTF 10:15 <@SuMo_D> the restraining order is a huge deal 10:15 <@evilpig> that would also later be looked at as premeditation for murder 10:15 <@Dagmar> This is a conversation I've had with the police actually. 10:15 < Ignotus-sdf> evilpig: 1- Dagmar is right, and you made me hungry 2- these days, it's good if they quit making determinations. That system is broken. 10:15 <@Dagmar> No, pre-medititation of self-defense 10:15 <@SuMo_D> sometimes I don't even know the guy's name fully - there was this one guy following me around Boston for awhile... I started changing my routes and my friends kept spotting him lurking 10:16 <@SuMo_D> such bullshit 10:16 < aestetix_> SuMo_D: I don't understand how anyone can do that 10:16 < aestetix_> was he stalking anyone else? 10:16 <@evilpig> self-defense would be pepper spray, taser, etc. telling them you will kill him is premeditation for murder. admit it, our system sucks and you having a brain in your head makes you a victim to stupidity 10:16 <@Dagmar> SuMo_D: You need to be more willing to contuse a kidney 10:17 <@Dagmar> No, telling them I'll kill him is not necessarily premeditation of murder. 10:17 <@SuMo_D> yeah... Dagmar I did muay Thai for 13 years... I have no trouble cracking bones... 10:17 <@Dagmar> It's only murder if you are not defending yourself. 10:17 <@SuMo_D> but you really don't want it to come to that 10:17 <@SuMo_D> espeically like that weird 10:17 <@SuMo_D> weirdo 10:17 <@Dagmar> SuMo_D: Yes you do, otherwise that person wouldn't have stalked you more than once. 10:17 <@Dagmar> Being able to do and _doing_ are two different things. 10:18 <@SuMo_D> I think he might have had AIDs and I didn't really want to get in a bloody altercation 10:18 <@SuMo_D> and I didn't really want to deal with an assault charge 10:18 <@Dagmar> Well, that's why kidneys are such great targets. 10:18 <@SuMo_D> true 10:19 <@Dagmar> A foot-long broom handle, a spot where you can obscure the sight from onlookers, a few seconds, and a disregard for the health of an adversary are all you need. 10:19 < aestetix_> Dagmar: or a surprise evening visit from Corydon76-home 10:19 <@SuMo_D> uh huh... k 10:20 <@evilpig> SuMo_D: have your friends seen me? 10:20 <@Dagmar> Nothing says "stay away from me" like blood in the urine stream 10:20 <@SuMo_D> yeah or just avoiding them 10:21 <@SuMo_D> stalkers take any interaction including violent ones as contact 10:21 <@SuMo_D> and invitation to stay in contact 10:21 <@Dagmar> THen you need to use *more* violence. 10:21 <@Corydon76-home> Dagmar: you're attempting to use logic to deal with crazy. Doesn't work that way. 10:21 <@Dagmar> No, I'm using violence to deal with crazy 10:21 <@Dagmar> I don't think you understand. 10:22 <@Dagmar> When I talk about shit like basically stabbing someone in the kidney with a broom handle, in order to cause internal bleeding and organ damage, I'm not saying to use it as a threat 10:22 <@Corydon76-home> You're thinking that a suitable method of aggression will cause a crazy person to stay away 10:22 <@Dagmar> I'm saying _it's the thing to do_. Preferably at the earliest available opportunity 10:22 <@Dagmar> Corydon76-home: I'm thinking I've been snatched up in a van and shot at a couple times. 10:23 <@Dagmar> What makes it stop is nearly killing a few people. 10:23 <@oddball> Dagmar: Remember: carrying a stick in this state with the intent to go armed without a license is a crime. 10:23 <@Dagmar> oddball: Joggers run with sticks all the time 10:23 <@oddball> And it's damned hard to explain another reason for carrying a baton. 10:23 <@Dagmar> oddball: She's a girl. 10:23 <@Corydon76-home> oddball: "I'm a collector." 10:24 <@oddball> Corydon76-home: Yeah... that doesn't really work for carrying one on you. 10:24 <@Corydon76-home> oddball: works great if it's at the bottom of a purse 10:24 <@Corydon76-home> "Oh, I didn't realize that was in there." 10:25 <@evilpig> who goes running witha purse? 10:25 <@Dagmar> Seriously though, craptons of joggers run with a baton 10:25 <@Dagmar> Primmarily to have something to stick in an unruly dog's mouth 10:25 <@Corydon76-home> I don't think SuMo_D goes running 10:25 <@Dagmar> Doesn't really matter 10:26 <@Dagmar> No one's going to blink twice about someone walking with a foot of broomstick in their hand so long as they're not waving it around or pointing it at people like a gun 10:26 <@Dagmar> if they're not part of a mob or something, no one will think anything of it 10:27 <@Dagmar> It's not what the item is, it's the savagery you are willing to perform with it. 10:27 <@oddball> Just stating the law. 10:27 <@Dagmar> The latter is something that can't be easily seen 10:28 <@Corydon76-home> I love that I'm not the only pedant. 10:28 < aestetix_> penis 10:28 <@Dagmar> I dunno. From my experience and viewpoint, the problem with most stalking incidents is that the victim isn't willing enough to gift sommeone with a nice, long hospital stay 10:28 <@Dagmar> Monologues are for bitches. 10:29 <@Dagmar> When someone's a threat, it's time to stop pussy-footing around and eliminate them. 10:29 <@oddball> Yep. There's often the issue that one party is civilized and is shocked when the other party isn't. 10:29 <@Dagmar> It's an incredible advantage. 10:30 <@Dagmar> Folks just do not expect you to casually walk up and try and put a wooden rod through their torso 10:30 <@Dagmar> THey don't expect you to come pin them to the wall with a pair of salon scissors. 10:30 <@oddball> ...which could easily lead to you being charged with premeditated assault. 10:30 <@Corydon76-home> Dagmar, the vampire hunter. 10:31 <@Dagmar> Proof is required for premeditation 10:31 <@oddball> carrying the stick is proof enough for many. 10:31 <@Dagmar> She's a girl 10:31 <@oddball> and? 10:31 <@Dagmar> No twelve people are going to truly believe a dildo is a weapon of premeditatied assault 10:31 <@oddball> walking up to a specific person and beating them with a stick is still a fucking crime. 10:32 <@Dagmar> One of them will dissent. 10:32 <@Dagmar> Beating? 10:32 <@Dagmar> No. An attempt at impaling. 10:32 <@oddball> Ah... so attempted murder. Yes. Much better. 10:32 <@Dagmar> We're going to have to work on your creativity when it comes to unrestrained violence, man 10:33 <@Dagmar> Like I said, when someone becomes a threat, you _eliminate_ that threat. 10:33 <@Dagmar> If you dance around it and wait for the cops to do something, you will become a statistic. 10:33 <@Corydon76-home> Nice that we've replaced an otherwise logical discussion about dealing with stalkers with utter fantasy 10:33 <@Dagmar> I'm sure a great many murder stalking victims would say they never expected things to escalate so quickly, if they could speak. 10:34 <@Dagmar> Corydon76-home: Get shot at and then call it fantasy 10:34 <@Dagmar> I'm quite comfortable with it by now, otherwise I would still be having nightmares. 10:34 <@oddball> No, you don't understand. Let me lay it out for you. I have thought hard about this kind of thing. I continue to think hard about these things. I know how to do many spectacularly bad things to people with a wide range of instruments including my bare hands. These meditations on violence include the consequences... which includes "ok, now what about legal ramifications." 10:35 <@SuMo_D> Corydon76-home is right I can't run due to shit from the cancer 10:36 <@Dagmar> oddball: I am unconcerned with the legal issues. If I believe someone to be a threat to my life and health, the next time they get near me, I'm just going to put an end to that 10:36 <@Dagmar> I won't even feel bad about it later. 10:37 <@oddball> See... I see "going to jail" as a threat to my life/wellbeing. 10:37 <@Dagmar> I see no longet being able to sleep with anyone because I'm likely to beat them senseless in my sleep... 10:37 <@Dagmar> ...waking up in a panic four times a night... 10:38 <@Dagmar> ...having heart palpitations and stomach ulcers and the possibility of esophageal cancer due to stress... 10:38 <@evilpig> oddball: some people see jail as time off from work. that's time they don't have to cook for themselves, goto work, etc 10:38 <@Dagmar> ...these things are considerably of greater concern to me than whether or not I'll need to hire a lawyer. 10:38 <@Dagmar> ...and they all beat the pants off being dead. 10:39 <@Corydon76-home> While we're in fantasy mode, I was going to suggest a powerful injected sedative, followed by hanging them from the rafters and hooking their testicles up to a car battery 10:39 <@Dagmar> Somme of these fucking things I've had to live with already 10:39 <@Dagmar> So, with all due respect, which isn't much, fuck your "fantasy mode" talk 10:39 <@Dagmar> It took me a long while to come to grips with the fact that I could straight up kill someone 10:40 <@Dagmar> I worry about the events that someone might cause that would lead up to me doing it... not whether or not I'd do it. 10:41 <@Corydon76-home> Dagmar: we're on two different plains of existence. I've always known I could kill someone with no compunction whatsoever. It is one of the reasons I choose not to possess a firearm. 10:41 <@Dagmar> People are _very_ bad about not responding appropriately to threats. 10:41 <@Corydon76-home> In my moments of rage, I could kill someone, no problem. 10:41 <@Dagmar> Rage? 10:41 <@Dagmar> Pfft. 10:42 <@Dagmar> No, what bothered me about the change to myself had nothing to do with whether I could get mad enough 10:42 <@Dagmar> Because I wouldn't even be mad. 10:42 <@Corydon76-home> Dagmar: I don't know if you've seen me in a rage. I've done my best to suppress those instances. 10:42 <@Dagmar> I get _calm_ under dangerous circumstances. 10:43 <@Corydon76-home> Being in a rage is when I'm out of control and don't always think about the consequences of my actions. 10:43 <@Corydon76-home> THAT is a good reason not to have weapons that can easily kill within reach. 10:44 <@Dagmar> The last time I had muggers stalking me while I was trying to play Ingress, I didn't even think much of it. I just picked up a stour branch, and snapped off about eight inches of it as an improvised shiv, stuck it up my jacket sleeve and made sure I could readily expose it 10:44 <@Dagmar> I did it as casually as one might lick an envelope before mailing it. 10:44 <@Dagmar> My mind was on something else, and I was just preparing for a possible amateur 10:47 <@Dagmar> It was only later, on my way home, that it occurred to me that it was fairly sociopathic behaviour 10:49 <@SuMo_D> http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/z2b627/the-fault-in-our-schools 10:49 <@GateKeeper> Title: The Fault in Our Schools - The Daily Show - Video Clip | Comedy Central (at thedailyshow.cc.com) 10:53 < Ignotus-sdf> I'm with Corydon. I am former military and combat vet, so I keep them away for the same reason. 10:53 <@Dagmar> I dont have them around because someone might claim premeditation 10:54 < Ignotus-sdf> Actually, Dagmar, that seems like a logical reflex response. Too bad things have to be that way, but well... 10:54 <@Bahhumbug> I agree with Dagmar. If someone posses a risk to either myself or those I care about that risk is going to be negated. One way or another. 10:55 <@Bahhumbug> If one of those ways ends up with someone in ICU or a casket... I will deal with the legal issues after the fact. The threat has been negated and myself and my loved ones are safe. 10:55 <@Bahhumbug> EOD 10:57 <@oddball> Right, but walking up to a dude and beating him with a stick with no immediate povocation other than "he's there" tends to be heavily frowned upon. 10:57 <@Dagmar> Ignotus-sdf: The bad thing is that the stick would have been mainly for show. If I were close enough to use it, I think a windpipe would be a much more rewarding objective 10:57 <@Dagmar> oddball: If he menaced me and demanded my walled "or " then we're done. It's time to stop talking and make with the mayhem. 10:58 <@Bahhumbug> +1 10:58 <@Dagmar> ...because all that matters is that they "" 10:58 < Ignotus-sdf> You can generally tell when someone *isn't* asking for directions. 10:58 <@Bahhumbug> People don't have to agree with either Dagmar or myself - I am fine with that. But threaten me or my family in any way that makes me take your threat seriously and the results are going to be messy. 10:58 <@oddball> Dagmar: That is a different story, but that's not what you were advocating. 10:58 < Ignotus-sdf> I've gotten to where I trust practically no one. 10:58 <@Dagmar> The good news is that you'll have one common interest with a mugger. 10:58 <@Dagmar> Neither of you are going to want a lot of witnesses. 10:59 <@Dagmar> It keeps things simplle. 10:59 <@oddball> Bahhumbug: Oh, I agree with you on that bit. 10:59 < Ignotus-sdf> And certainly no one official (including librarians) 10:59 <@Dagmar> oddball: No, I'm pretty much advocating more violence all around 10:59 <@Bahhumbug> And stalking / following behaviour? That's threatening. And it _will_ end. 11:00 <@Dagmar> "Extreme" levels of violence have a way of bringing about safety 11:00 <@Bahhumbug> I look at this differently than many of you having spent 34 years in Chicago surrounded by the shit of society. I left there for many reasons, personal safety of myself and my wife being _very_ high on that list. 11:00 <@Dagmar> That underwear fairy could expect a broken knee at the very least 11:01 <@Dagmar> Nothing says "stay away from me" like being crippled for a few months 11:01 <@Dagmar> ...and that's the least measure I'd be taking. 11:01 <@Corydon76-home> Ignotus-sdf: I have some difficulty with ascertaining whether somebody is serious with their question or not. 11:02 <@oddball> Bahhumbug: I see "stalking/following behavior" as reason to prepare for violence, not reason to cause it. 11:02 < Ignotus-sdf> yeah. :( I'm old enough to remember when you could just about trust most folks at face value. 11:03 <@Bahhumbug> oddball: They've already taken the first step towards threatening actions by stalking / following. 11:03 <@Bahhumbug> I am not likely to sit back and wait for them to escalate. 11:03 <@Bahhumbug> I would prefer not to have to think about this subject at all. 11:03 <@Bahhumbug> But we live in a society where that's not possible. 11:04 <@Corydon76-home> Bahhumbug: that can sometimes be mistaken, though... there truly is a difference between actual stalking and somebody happening to be in the same locations 11:04 <@Bahhumbug> And there are 879346598734634 ways to see if they are actually stalking you or following you around. 11:04 <@oddball> Bahhumbug: Good news is that we're in a society where it happens less frequently than it did 20 years ago. 11:04 <@Corydon76-home> Also, protective details have sometimes been mistaken as stalkers 11:05 <@Dagmar> Yep. 11:05 <@Bahhumbug> I'm not likely to have a protective detail. 11:05 <@Dagmar> You makey snakey route 11:05 <@Bahhumbug> And I am solely talking about ME and MY family. 11:05 <@Dagmar> If you can cross your own path twice and they're still trailing you, it's fun time 11:05 <@Bahhumbug> Fuck that. Turn around and do a 180. If they do the same, game on. 11:06 <@Dagmar> You give away the advantage if you do that 11:06 <@Bahhumbug> Anyone that is aware of their surroundings is going to be able to distinguish someone just walking around or someone actively following / stalking. 11:06 <@Dagmar> They're going to immediately realize they've been rustled and may abandon the tail 11:06 <@oddball> What Corydon76-home said. I've been in a few situations where I was 98% sure that that guy there was intending me harm. Until they actually strike you/pull a knife on you/etc, you can't be 100% 11:06 <@Bahhumbug> You give too much credit for smarts. 11:07 <@Dagmar> It's a good thing you'd only be 98% dead if you were wrong 11:07 <@Bahhumbug> hag 11:07 <@Bahhumbug> err, hah 11:07 <@Corydon76-home> Bahhumbug: Again, this conversation came out of a situation with SuMo_D. I understand not being able to relate, but we're firmly into fantasy here. 11:07 <@Dagmar> I would rather be mistaken than dead. It's as simple as that. 11:07 <@oddball> ok, have fun in jail, then. 11:08 <@Dagmar> Beats the shit out of napping in the morgue 11:08 <@oddball> "why did you beat that man?" "he looked at me funny." 11:08 <@Corydon76-home> oddball: Exactly 11:08 <@Dagmar> Not likely to be a conversation I'd have 11:09 <@oddball> That's what you're advocating. 11:09 <@Dagmar> Why'd I break four of the guy's ribs and dislocate his shoulder? Because he was closing the gap after having followed me from X & Y intersection, up Z street, across Q Avenue, then down R Lane. 11:10 -!- x86Daddy [~x86Daddy@32.144.42.212] has joined #se2600 11:10 <@Corydon76-home> If you complain about a stalker, and somebody who cares about you assigns you a security guy to keep watch, and you end up beating the security guy to death, you're going to be thought of as the crazy one, and they'll ignore any actual signs of stalking 11:10 <@Dagmar> Why did I kill him with his own knife? Who wouldn't? 11:10 <@Dagmar> People are kinda pussies nowadays 11:11 <@Dagmar> Depending on how things went down, witnesses are somewhat unlikely to bother 11:11 <@Dagmar> ...and someone hostile to your health and well-being will likely be trying to minimize the number of witnesses. 11:12 <@Dagmar> So I spent a couple hours waiting around the courthouse last month 11:12 <@Dagmar> Some tool who I'd one-shotted was attempting to float a story that I'd attacked him unprovoked 11:13 <@Dagmar> Nevermind that he was past the legal limit for driving when the police arrived, and nevermind that I was the one who had the police called to check up on him 11:13 <@Dagmar> I did not hesitate 11:13 <@Dagmar> Dude swung on me, I put him down for a nap. 11:14 <@Dagmar> I had two witnesses. 11:14 <@oddball> See... that's perfectly reasonable. 11:14 <@Dagmar> _Eventually_ they came to sign affidavits 11:14 <@oddball> dude *Actually* did something to you, you responded. 11:14 <@Dagmar> No, he only tried to do something to me. 11:14 <@Dagmar> Drunk people telegraph 11:14 <@oddball> "taking a swing" = an attack. 11:15 <@Dagmar> An utter ponce would claim that I wasn't in any "real" danger. 11:15 <@oddball> whether it connected or not is not important to that equation. 11:15 <@Dagmar> One of the responding officers made this claim. 11:15 <@Corydon76-home> "Being in the same place as me" = not an attack 11:16 <@Dagmar> ran on about blah blah blah you should wait for hte police blah blah withdraw blah blah 11:16 <@Dagmar> My sole response was "he became a threat to my health, and I neutralized him' 11:16 <@oddball> And, for the record, that bit where there were a couple guys following you, so you armed yourself with a stick and prepared for violence? Seems like a good call to m. 11:16 <@Corydon76-home> Once he took a swing, you were within your rights to respond 11:17 <@Dagmar> oddball: To say I "prepared for violence" would be overstating it 11:17 <@Dagmar> It was barely on my mind at the time. 11:17 <@Dagmar> The drunk guy I struck in the jaw with my elbow 11:18 <@Dagmar> I *tried* to lift him off the ground with the blow 11:18 <@oddball> You grabbed a stick, had it in an easily accessable location, and were prepared to use it. That's kind of the definition of preparing for violence. 11:18 <@Dagmar> I didn't say a single word to the drunk guy 11:19 <@oddball> So... one of those idiot drunks that decided that getting into a fight was a good idea? 11:19 <@Dagmar> I was just watching him try and start a fight with a guy in a car he'd stepped in front of, and he didn't like the way I was looking at him. 11:20 <@oddball> ah 11:20 <@Dagmar> You say "preparation". 11:20 <@Corydon76-home> On a completely different subject, Peaches will be performing tonight at the 9:30 show (Rising Stars) at Play Dance Bar. 11:20 <@Dagmar> I say, "not preparation". 11:20 <@Dagmar> I say "already executing plan" 11:21 <@Dagmar> The moment this guy took his first step toward me, I was already of the opinion he was in need of a nap. 11:21 <@Corydon76-home> as "Christina Rae" in case you didn't know his drag name 11:21 <@SuMo_D> Corydon76-home it actually came up because aestetix_ posted something up and asked if that kind of story was common, and said... sadly... yes 11:21 <@oddball> Corydon76-home: So, are you going to be at the meeting tonight, or do the two of you need to take the time to prepare? 11:21 <@Dagmar> Shit liek that is precisely why one doesn't fuck around with creepy/dangerous stalkers 11:22 <@Corydon76-home> I will be at the meeting. Peaches will likely not. 11:22 <@Dagmar> I suppose we can also look forward to miss crazypants 11:22 <@oddball> Ok. I'll try to remember to throw the projector in the car to give to you. 11:22 <@Corydon76-home> The bar doesn't open until 9, so I'll head over there after getting something to eat 11:23 <@oddball> Yeah, I told JonnyX that she got banned for good reasons, and his response was "show me the logs." 11:23 <@oddball> ok 11:23 <@Dagmar> He can just ask basically anyonne 11:23 <@Bahhumbug> Banned from here? 11:23 <@Bahhumbug> I did it. 11:23 <@Dagmar> *She* might keep logs and show them to people to try and make claims 11:24 <@Bahhumbug> Because she was, yet again, starting shit with _EVERYONE_ in this channel and I grew sick of it. 11:24 <@Dagmar> actually she does that. there's no "might" to it. 11:24 <@oddball> Well, that's pretty much his canned response to "bullshit, I don't believe you. 11:24 <@oddball> " 11:24 <@Bahhumbug> Tell him to talk to me if he wants. I log everything. 11:24 <@Dagmar> NotLarry banned her as well, for much the same reason 11:24 <@Dagmar> She camme in here in the wee hours and then by name called basically all the channel regulars out trying to start fights. 11:24 <@oddball> Bahhumbug: Feel free to foward those logs to him. 11:25 <@Dagmar> ...and I strongly suspect her motives in being around _at all_ are not genuine. 11:25 <@Bahhumbug> Not until he asks for them, no. 11:25 <@Bahhumbug> And she's not banned here now. 11:25 <@Bahhumbug> [10:24:49] Ban listing for #se2600: *!*eJmuxAiz@190.120.238.* (set by card.freenode.net on Sun Jul 6 10:35:28 2014) 11:25 <@Bahhumbug> [10:24:49] Ban listing for #se2600: *!*jSc6YlJG@unaffiliated/cerkit (set by card.freenode.net on Sun Jul 6 10:35:28 2014) 11:25 <@Bahhumbug> [10:24:49] Ban listing for #se2600: *!*@zeniv.linux.org.uk (set by card.freenode.net on Sun Jul 6 10:35:28 2014) 11:25 <@Bahhumbug> [10:24:49] Ban listing for #se2600: *!*@anhedonia.sammy.net (set by card.freenode.net on Sun Jul 6 10:35:28 2014) 11:25 <@oddball> Ah, well, he's asked me for them, and I'm asking you. :) 11:25 <@Dagmar> How many times did she keep saying they should use WordPress for the con site? 11:25 <@Bahhumbug> Not muted, either. 11:25 <@Dagmar> DESPITE me and others speaking reason about it 11:25 <@Bahhumbug> oddball: If he wants them he can show up here and ask. Or mail me. 11:25 <@Dagmar> DESPITE us having super-easy ways to mitigate it 11:26 <@Bahhumbug> I'm not about to go out of my way for someone that condones her rampant shit. 11:26 <@Dagmar> oddball: ...and I do mean she keeps logs for blackmail and skullduggery. 11:26 <@oddball> Yeah... he keeps claiming he's going to start showing up in here... or not... or something. 11:26 <@Bahhumbug> Stupid crazy bitch should be locked up in a padded room. 11:26 <@oddball> Dagmar: Oh, I have no doubt. 11:26 <@Bahhumbug> Let's go with "something". 11:26 <@Dagmar> JonnyX had some things to say to me about things I said in here that were taken out of context, as well as _when_ I said them 11:26 <@Corydon76-home> The difference is that she, like many people on IRC, is quite different in person 11:26 <@Bahhumbug> Don't care. 11:26 <@Bahhumbug> She's a raging bitch here. 11:27 <@Dagmar> Corydon76-home: That could be either borderline personality disorder, or her employer. Take your pick the outcomes are remarkably similar 11:27 <@Bahhumbug> And from things I've heard this isn't the only venue she's made her presence felt. 11:27 <@oddball> Corydon76-home: Honestly, don't give a shit. 11:27 <@Corydon76-home> So if he only sees the less-neurotic person, then he may not fully believe the behavior of the more-neurotic 11:27 <@oddball> I recognize that she acts completely different in real life, and that's what I was trying to tell him. 11:27 <@Bahhumbug> Event hough it's her opinion against EVERYONE elses? 11:27 <@Dagmar> I have to talk to him about something rather serious this evening anyway. I intend to make a few things clear to him at the same time. 11:28 <@Corydon76-home> Bahhumbug: cognitive dissonance 11:28 <@Dagmar> She is *definitely* pulling the buddy-buddy thing on him 11:28 <@Bahhumbug> She's a user. 11:28 <@Bahhumbug> Plain and simple. 11:28 <@Bahhumbug> She will use whatever and whomever to get to her end goal. 11:28 <@Bahhumbug> She's already trying to worm into nlug. 11:28 <@Dagmar> THey're carpooling so she can kiss his ass to get into his good graces 11:28 <@Corydon76-home> I wish I knew what that end goal was 11:28 <@Bahhumbug> And, well, have fun with that. It's a dead organization anyway. 11:29 <@evilpig> They're carpooling cause she can't drive 11:29 <@SuMo_D> well she openly admitted she got banned from every other con in Nashville and nobody liked her so she came back to #2600... 11:29 <@SuMo_D> she said that at lest 2-3 times 11:29 <@Dagmar> SuMo_D: Yeah there's a problem with that 11:29 <@SuMo_D> can you just pull up those logs? 11:29 <@Bahhumbug> I have that logged as well. 11:29 <@evilpig> as do i 11:29 <@Dagmar> I don't recall her _ever_ being around 11:29 <@oddball> Bahhumbug: Yeah... I here that they're doing something every now and then, and my usual thought is "oh, they're still around? That's nice." 11:29 <@evilpig> she claims to have been around pre PN4 11:29 <@Dagmar> She claims to have been the person who introduced Becky 11:29 <@Dagmar> The answer to that is "no, she did not" 11:29 <@Bahhumbug> I am also irritated that the bitch's name keeps coming up. 11:30 <@Bahhumbug> Seriously you ignorant twat, just go the fuck away already. 11:30 <@Dagmar> I'm of the opinion she's inventing false history as cover 11:30 <@Bahhumbug> You mean she's a liar? 11:30 <@Bahhumbug> No! 11:30 <@Bahhumbug> Never! 11:30 <@oddball> Well, when she keeps showing up to the meetings and is acting as nashville2600's president's 2nd in command... 11:30 <@Dagmar> ...and she doesn't realize how carefully I pay attention to the few women that show up at the meetings. 11:31 <@Dagmar> Becky never ever came to a meeting with this girl. 11:31 <@SuMo_D> ha that doesn't sound creepy at all :P 11:31 <@Dagmar> Spacey hippie chick or not, I've always felt the sun could shine out of Becky's butt and I wouldn't care 11:32 <@Dagmar> SuMo_D: What it amounts to is a disturbing level of safety 11:32 <@SuMo_D> :) 11:32 <@Dagmar> At PN3 I think there were two chicks who showed up, got drunk... somme dude was grousing because he couldn't get them alone 11:32 <@Dagmar> I made it clear to him that if he should succeed in his mission, I would end him. 11:32 <@Bahhumbug> heh 11:33 <@Corydon76-home> At PN3, I was trying to get David Krause alone, for much the same reason. ;-) 11:33 <@Dagmar> In not so many words, I made it clear that if he attempted to date rape a couple of minor girls, he'd be found floating in the pool come sunrise 11:33 <@Dagmar> Anyone who'd hit Becky would have been looking at a major broken bone at the very least 11:33 < Ignotus-sdf> permanent pool party? 11:33 <@Dagmar> Ignotus-sdf: Precisely. 11:34 <@Dagmar> He'd just have gotten drunk and accidentally drowned himself 11:34 < Ignotus-sdf> Well, there are those who earn the right to assume room temperature. 11:35 <@Corydon76-home> At PN4, all you'd've had to do was make sure someone drank a little of the pool water, and it would've taken care of the problem already 11:35 <@Dagmar> euw 11:35 <@evilpig> I think I have a pic of that science experiment someplace 11:35 <@Corydon76-home> Yeah, it was pretty nasty 11:38 <@Dagmar> SuMo_D: No seriously tho. Becky was tall, thin, blonde, blue-eyed, always in a good mood, had good work ethics, etc etc. She managed to make friends with Margaret although normally Margaret would find a way to knock a polyanna into the pool sort of thing 11:38 <@Corydon76-home> So anybody else up for watching Peaches in drag after the meeting tonight? 11:38 <@Dagmar> She was a pot smoking hippie with a laughably low tolerance, so I watched out for her closely 11:39 <@Dagmar> I rememeber a brunette girl being basically attached to Becky at first, but that girl was not Amber 11:39 <@Dagmar> So... this leads me to wonder why she would make such a claim 11:39 <@evilpig> don't address it by name. that just humanizes it 11:39 <@Dagmar> ...and Becky hasn't been around for awhile now. 11:40 <@Dagmar> ...and frankly, I'm thinking, provocatuer. 11:40 <@SuMo_D> yeah I have no doubt you are a good protector Dagmar and yeah you guys may joke around in gross/annoying ways **cough cough** evilpig but I feel the love 11:41 <@SuMo_D> The non creepy we look out for each other love... 11:41 <@Corydon76-home> SuMo_D: or the creepy, hey, that 18yo guy looks impressionable, way 11:42 <@SuMo_D> :) 11:43 <@Dagmar> Drat it 11:43 <@Dagmar> Landlady called about a possible leak 11:43 <@Dagmar> Yep there's a leak, but more importantly the apartment is a complete mess right now 11:44 <@Dagmar> I've got some major cleaning to do tonight 11:44 <@SuMo_D> oh hey btw my friend was complaining there's no good food in Nashville 11:44 <@SuMo_D> do you guys have any suggestions I can point to for future reference? 11:45 <@oddball> Hell, one of the big time magazines declared Nashville to have the best BBQ in the country. 11:45 <@evilpig> what type of food is this person looking for? 11:46 <@evilpig> cause clearly they aren't looking very hard if they can't find tasty stuff 11:46 <@oddball> Yeah... 11:47 <@evilpig> recently i've seen several lists of "must goto restaurants" in nashville and they've all been horribly slanted to stupid east nashville 11:47 <@SuMo_D> well actually they were living there for 6 months... 11:47 <@evilpig> but since they were web reviews I should have expected that out of the hipsters 11:47 <@oddball> Yep. Those lists seem to be firmly set on new resteraunts run by hipseters. 11:47 <@SuMo_D> and they said everything besides the middle eastern fare was pretty blah 11:47 <@SuMo_D> including the bbq 11:47 <@evilpig> SuMo_D: call them liars and morons 11:47 <@SuMo_D> but then again... they were comparing it to SC bbq 11:47 <@oddball> Clearly, they failed. 11:47 <@evilpig> if they eat at chain restaurants that's what htey can expect 11:47 <@SuMo_D> so I could see how it would be a challenge ;) 11:48 <@SuMo_D> no, but seriously... where would you direct them 11:48 <@evilpig> what food are they wanting? 11:48 <@oddball> Of course, we're also the home of hot chicken. 11:48 <@SuMo_D> all kinda 11:48 <@evilpig> I always send folks to monells 11:48 <@evilpig> especially tomorrow morning 11:48 <@SuMo_D> evilpig you had a ton of suggestions after PN I just forgot them all 11:49 <@evilpig> it all depends on where they are in town and what they are looking for. if they are in midtown there a ton of little places but they might look like shithles 11:50 <@evilpig> SuMo_D: send them here. http://monellstn.com/nashville 11:51 <@SuMo_D> what about places around Belmont 11:51 <@evilpig> https://plus.google.com/106046739106648949408/about?gl=us&hl=en 11:51 <@evilpig> looks like a shithoel but is good 11:52 <@evilpig> judge's or southstreet are semi in that area 11:53 <@evilpig> tell em to go sit up in the treehouse at south street 11:53 <@oddball> Around Belmont? Not too far from West End that has Blackstone, Amerigos, I've blanked out on the name of the japanese steak house. 11:53 <@oddball> Southstreet is good. 11:54 <@SuMo_D> cool 11:54 <@oddball> Bosco's in Hillsboro village. 11:54 <@SuMo_D> any good Chinese places? 11:54 <@oddball> Brown's is good if you just want a cheap burger/dog in a local hangout. 11:54 <@SuMo_D> they were sad that the chinese places were so bad 11:55 <@oddball> Ah, yeah... can't think of a good chinese place in that area. Well, there's one in Green Hills, which isn't too far. 11:56 <@evilpig> hell, honestly they aren't far from cafe coco either. but I don't classify that as great food 11:56 <@evilpig> dog of nashville is in the west end / belmont area and that's not bad 11:56 <@oddball> Of course, there's also a bunch of stuff on 12th, etc, but I haven't been to any of them. 11:56 <@evilpig> what's the beer place there on westend right next to the theater? 11:57 <@oddball> You mean by the Belcourt on 21st? Bosco's? 11:57 <@evilpig> yeah boscos on 21st 11:57 <@evilpig> that's walking distance from belmont 11:58 <@oddball> SO... yeah... if they lived near Belmont and couldn't find good food, it's because they failed. 11:58 <@evilpig> even though I live up here in pizza land I could go for some boscos right now 12:00 <@SuMo_D> I Miss being able to eat real pizza... 12:00 <@SuMo_D> at least there is Barleys here... that is something. 12:00 <@SuMo_D> They have this awesome cheese alternative... that is so good... 12:00 <@evilpig> SuMo_D: if they are out wandering around town Calypso can be tasty. mainly ifyou're one of those non-meat eating freakazoids 12:01 <@SuMo_D> :) 12:01 <@evilpig> they have meat but seems liek the majority of their menu is vegetarian 12:01 <@Dolemite> If they don't eat meat, tell them to ask for a kids' menu 12:01 <@Dolemite> Because that's all they deserve! 12:01 <@evilpig> so please tell your friends they clearly aren't trying and are LIARS! 12:02 <@Dolemite> Yeah, if they can't find good food at South Street, they aren't ordering. 12:02 <@SuMo_D> yeah evilpig.. I'll get right on that 12:02 <@SuMo_D> hey speaking of good food 12:03 <@Dolemite> But they are right about one thing - there's no really good Chinese food in Nashville 12:03 <@SuMo_D> did you ever try any of my NYC suggestions? 12:04 <@evilpig> I still haven't gotten into those areas. :-/ I really haven't been to the city many times 12:04 <@SuMo_D> awwww sadness 12:05 <@evilpig> Dolemite: I say there isn't really any good mexican either. 12:05 <@evilpig> and I lived in what was practically little mexico 12:05 <@Bahhumbug> You've probably been to NYC more than I've been to Nashville :) 12:06 <@evilpig> Bahhumbug: 5 or 6 times now at least 12:06 <@evilpig> i'll be going next week again 12:06 <@Bahhumbug> About par with my trips to Vashville. 12:07 <@Dolemite> evilpig: Authentic Mexican, you're right, but for Americanized Tex-Mex food, it had some really good choices 12:07 <@evilpig> if you want fajitas then yes. there are many tasty options 12:08 <@Dolemite> Or burritos and tacos 12:09 <@evilpig> any predictions on how bad dawn of hte planet of the apes is gonna be 12:09 <@evilpig> ? 12:09 <@SuMo_D> all this is making me hungry... I think I'm going to go find food... but yeah - thx for the suggestions! 12:09 <@Bahhumbug> Rise wasn't bad, quite entertaining. 12:10 <@evilpig> SuMo_D: above all else. tell them MONELLS TOMORROW MORNING 12:10 <@evilpig> meat plate... *drool* 12:10 <@oddball> There's good mexican here... just don't order burrittos or other "gringo food." 12:11 <@evilpig> oddball: I disagree. I didn't find any one place that made an edible chilaquiles 12:11 <@evilpig> most of them thought it was just a pile of dry chips with shit poured on like nachos 12:11 <@oddball> ah... don't think I've ever ordered that. 12:12 <@evilpig> baked chilaquiles is the bomb 12:12 <@oddball> gotcha 12:12 <@evilpig> it's a mexican casserole kinda thing. it does involve chips though. 12:14 <@oddball> And I actually moved from the Gazeebo apts. to an area with more mexican places. 12:14 <@evilpig> hard to believe 12:14 <@Dolemite> Hey, evilpig. 12:14 <@Dolemite> Did you know? 12:14 <@oddball> For a while we had a mexican place in the parking lot of another mexican place. 12:14 <@Dolemite> Fans of PhreakNIC are waiting to hear from you. 12:14 <@evilpig> Dolemite: you got another one of those too? 12:15 <@Dolemite> Yeah 12:16 -!- x86Daddy [~x86Daddy@32.144.42.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17 <@evilpig> jesus. they want to increase revenue this quarter 60% 12:19 < Ignotus-sdf> King Taco? Anybody been out to East LA? 12:21 <@evilpig> Ignotus-sdf: not in many years 12:21 <@evilpig> I was hoping to get back out to la this summer but not looking like it is gonna happen 12:29 < Ignotus-sdf> yeah. I have an ex-wife there. I get to stay here at home now. 12:32 <@evilpig> I've got family there. 12:33 < aestetix_> god I fucking hate car alarms 12:36 < Ignotus-sdf> Lived in Woodland Hills, Cheviot Hills, then Quartz Hill. Crap. I didn't realise I lived in so many "Hills". 12:39 < Ignotus-sdf> I also like the conspiracy restaurants out here. We started calling them "conspiracy" because they are always owned by Mexicans that barely speak English, and the menu numbers are the same and always match. Food always rocks. 12:39 <@Corydon76-home> You ought to select a mountain, next 12:40 < Ignotus-sdf> yeah. that would be easier here. But not Stone Mountain. 12:41 <@Corydon76-home> You can come up here and live on Short Mountain 12:42 <@Bahhumbug> You're on Short Mountain? 12:42 <@Bahhumbug> I thought you lived in or near Nashville. 12:42 <@Bahhumbug> Short Mountain is kinda in my neck of the woods. 12:43 <@Bahhumbug> (Assuming we are talking about the same place, anyway) 12:44 <@Corydon76-home> I don't live there, no. But I know of one current and one past things on Short Mountain 12:44 <@Corydon76-home> There was the Sanctuary, a clothing optional community of radical faeries 12:44 <@Corydon76-home> and there's the repeater 12:45 <@Bahhumbug> We drove up there a few years back on a lazy Sunday afternoon. Didn't come across such a place (thankfully). 12:46 <@Corydon76-home> The particular issue I had with them is that they don't believe in deodorant, so you can detect their presence by their smell 12:46 <@evilpig> truebloodsims.tumblr.com 12:56 < aestetix_> I hate the sun so much 12:56 <@evilpig> booze cruise on tuesday. I wonder if I can get into the city for it 13:10 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600 13:10 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ 13:10 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600 13:10 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ 13:10 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Client Quit] 13:21 < Ignotus-sdf> gotta hear about the booze cruise. I'm lucky to work for a company that still sneaks a keg in. 13:28 < aestetix_> man 13:28 < aestetix_> the fauxminists keep coming up with new keywords I need to block on twitter 13:28 < aestetix_> I have to give it to them, they are creative 13:35 -!- critch_ [~critch@198.71.82.156] has joined #se2600 13:37 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600 13:37 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ 13:37 -!- oddball_ [~oddball@c-76-22-246-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 13:39 -!- opticron_ [~opticron@75.76.148.219] has joined #se2600 13:43 -!- evilpig [~wilpig@wilpig.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] --- Log closed Fri Jul 11 13:43:44 2014 --- Log opened Fri Jul 11 13:44:56 2014 13:44 -!- evilpig_ [~wilpig@wilpig.org] has joined #se2600 13:44 -!- Irssi: #se2600: Total of 47 nicks [24 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 23 normal] 13:45 -!- Irssi: Join to #se2600 was synced in 24 secs 13:45 < aestetix_> So, something occurred to me 13:46 < aestetix_> I wonder if people would be so angry and wigging out all the time if we hadn't put such a public taboo on smoking 13:50 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @evilpig 13:51 < Ignotus-sdf> I vape. I also minimise public interaction. 13:52 < Ignotus-sdf> but I see your point about the constant whining about everything. 13:53 -!- opticron_ is now known as opticron 13:54 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o opticron] by ChanServ 13:54 < Ignotus-sdf> here at the house, we decided to shrink our first world problems and try to help hack out other folks third-world problems. 13:54 < aestetix_> well what I mean is 13:54 < aestetix_> 20 years ago, if you got pissed at something, you can take a drag off a cigarette and feel better for a moment 13:55 < aestetix_> enough to help ground and rationalize things 13:55 < aestetix_> so we've demonized that escape 13:55 < Ignotus-sdf> and then we wonder why folks go off the deep end. You're not alone in that wise assessment. 13:55 < aestetix_> oh? 13:56 < aestetix_> it's just, even that 2 minute moment of relief from the cigarette might keep you from snapping 13:56 < Ignotus-sdf> I fully agree. when folks have even a slight out, like a cigarette, it reduces fight or flight. I smoked like a mofo over in the Gulf. 13:56 < Ignotus-sdf> you're right. 13:57 < aestetix_> and there's all this drama about it causing cancer 13:57 < aestetix_> but I've seen a lot of other things cause cancer 13:58 < aestetix_> but yeah it occurred to me that almost everyone I know is mad/angry...... unless they smoke 13:58 < aestetix_> or have really good coping skills 13:59 < aestetix_> I'm also curious if lack of smoking leads to drinking more heavily 14:00 -!- x86Daddy [~x86Daddy@32.144.42.212] has joined #se2600 14:02 <@Corydon76-home> aestetix_: for the first time in 30 years, smoking is now a bigger killer of gay people than HIV/AIDS 14:02 < aestetix_> Corydon76-home: does that mean HIV/AIDS has dropped, or that gay people have taken up smoking? 14:02 <@Corydon76-home> The first 14:03 < aestetix_> That's fantastic, then. 14:03 <@Corydon76-home> No, I would have preferred that it was heart disease, like the general population 14:04 < aestetix_> So either you smoke and die of lung cancer, or you don't and die of a heart attack from a nervous breakdown? :p 14:05 < Ignotus-sdf> [trollin', trollin', trollin'...] Have you noticed that the older gay man in Hollywood films always smokes, but the straight nerdy guy doesn't? (I am thinking ID4 and The Birdcage, specifically) 14:06 <@Corydon76-home> ID4? 14:06 < Ignotus-sdf> Independence Day. You must be a youngun... ;) 14:06 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Quit: Kein Kybernetikverkehr] 14:07 <@Corydon76-home> Uh, yeah, so young... 14:07 <@Corydon76-home> I didn't realize they made 3 sequels to Independence Day 14:07 < aestetix_> I haven't seen that movie in years. 14:07 < aestetix_> Basically since it came out. 14:07 < aestetix_> They made sequels? 14:08 <@Corydon76-home> He said ID4, so that would be the fourth movie 14:08 < aestetix_> oh 14:11 <@Corydon76-home> I didn't bother seeing ID in the theaters and after I saw it on TV, I'm certainly glad of that. 14:12 <@Corydon76-home> It may not be the worst movie ever made, but dear god, it was terrible. 14:12 < aestetix_> Actually it turns out ID4 refers to the original 14:12 < aestetix_> but 14:12 < aestetix_> The release date for a sequel to Independence Day is July 1, 2016. 14:14 <@Corydon76-home> Using a single system of alien technology, we're going to develop a virus capable of knocking out defenses in a few hours. Right. 14:14 < aestetix_> Luckily we already had that in 1996 14:14 < aestetix_> It was called Windows 95 14:15 < Ignotus-sdf> Yeah, the marquees just said ID4, and some of the posters. It was a silly marketing thing, prolly. I saw it in the theater with my girlfriend at the time, and another guy whose throat she wanted to rip out. delightful. 14:15 < Ignotus-sdf> aestetix_: lol. spot on. 14:16 < oddball_> Yeah... a *lot* of the promotional material for the original used "ID4." 14:16 < Ignotus-sdf> Corydon: Yeah, and Jeff Goldblum can do it from a mac. 14:16 < aestetix_> Although if we gave the aliens Windows 95, that alone is justification for war 14:16 < Ignotus-sdf> I like where this is going. 14:16 -!- oddball_ is now known as oddball 14:16 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o oddball] by ChanServ 14:17 < aestetix_> They could use visual basic to run a traceroute.... and it goes faster if two people use the keyboard at once 14:17 < aestetix_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU 14:17 <@Corydon76-home> Oh, and the aliens technology didn't change all that much in 50 years, so a scout ship sent in 1950 is indistinguishable from the ships an invading force used decades later. 14:18 < aestetix_> my bad, "I'll create gui interface using visual basic, to track the killer's ip address" 14:19 <@oddball> Well, these are the same people that still think that tracing a phone number takes time. 14:19 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Off into this... Real world place...] 14:19 < aestetix_> and visual basic makes it take less time? 14:19 < aestetix_> I hear many things about VB, but speed is not one of them 14:22 <@Corydon76-home> Plus, the reason for the invasion didn't make much sense. They come to the planet to steal resources, and instead of immediately getting to work, mining it all out, they're going to attack population centers. Really? 14:22 < aestetix_> wouldn't it make more sense to enslave the population and make them mine everything? 14:22 <@oddball> And no orbital bombardment. 14:23 <@Corydon76-home> Not if your technology is far more advanced. You can do the work before you managed to train even a modicum of people to use your equipment 14:23 <@Dickie> bumbardment 14:24 < aestetix_> Dickie: don't get Corydon76-home excited 14:32 <@Corydon76-home> It would be a minor miracle if Dickie could get me excited. I have a pill bottle that says otherwise. 14:46 < aestetix_> you need viagra? 14:57 <@Corydon76-home> Anti-anxiety meds have a capacity of preventing excitement 15:26 <@Dickie> I don't know whether to be insulted or challenged or relieved 15:33 <@Corydon76-home> It's aestetix, so I'd go with "No reaction". You don't want him to glean anything about how to push your buttons. 15:37 <@Dickie> ...wat 16:22 < Guest70696> so, who else here thinks that the "cn" in ldap should be the same as your login (sAMAccountName) instead of being the same as your displayName (last name, first name) 16:22 < Guest70696> wtf 16:22 -!- Guest70696 is now known as Mirage 16:23 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Mirage] by ChanServ 16:23 <@Mirage> damn netsplits 16:24 <@Mirage> oh, and this was discovered in a global corporation's "standard" MS-AD implementation. 16:30 < Ignotus-sdf> I agree. I had to do a bunch of MSMail > Exchange / Sendmail conversion waaaay back in the day (1998) and it would have been easier to use login than the stupid crap we had to wade through for 26 locations all over the planet. 16:30 < Ignotus-sdf> pita. 17:10 -!- K4k [~K4k@unaffiliated/k4k] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10 <@Mirage> finally getting around to playing with centos7...so far i'm not so keen on systemd 17:23 -!- You're now known as wilpig 17:23 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o wilpig] by ChanServ 17:25 <@Bahhumbug> For the majority of day to day shit it can be ignored for the most part; one gotcha is that systemd's "service" emulation doesn't have a method to handle custom init script targets. 17:25 <@Bahhumbug> Most of the rest is still fairly well hidden. 17:25 <@Bahhumbug> journald passes through to syslog natively as well. 17:26 <@Bahhumbug> I will tell you know, though. Fear EL8 when it drops in ~3 years. 17:26 <@Bahhumbug> RHAT, more specifically Fedora's FESCo, will do nothing to reign in Puttering and Sievers. 17:27 <@Bahhumbug> And the influence they have is ridiculous. 17:29 <@Bahhumbug> @migrate7 17:29 <@Bahhumbug> Sigh 17:29 <@Mirage> i'm not too endeared with firewalld either 17:29 <@Bahhumbug> For changes and considerations to take into account when moving from CentOS-6 to CentOS-7 please see https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/html/Migration_Planning_Guide/index.html 17:29 <@GateKeeper> Title: Migration Planning Guide (at access.redhat.com) 17:30 <@Bahhumbug> service firewalld stop && chkconfig firewalld off && yum install iptables ip6tables && service iptables start && chkconfig iptables on 17:30 <@Bahhumbug> Thankfully firewalld can go right off and fuck itself 17:30 <@Mirage> yeah..but I'm sure at some point that will no longer be an option. 17:30 <@Bahhumbug> Not for 7; 8... probably. 17:31 <@wilpig> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jrx-Xrrsco nsfw? 17:31 <@GateKeeper> Title: My Crotch Is Open For Business (If Youre Vegan) - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) 17:31 <@Mirage> may as well go through the pain of figuring it out now instead of being completely stuck with it later 17:31 <@Bahhumbug> Base policy for EL releases doesn't change unless Cthulhu is coming to eat the souls of the Enterprise teams at RHAT. 17:32 <@Bahhumbug> And since the product doesn't expire until 17:32 <@Bahhumbug> CentOS 7 will go EOL on 30 June, 2024 -- in 9 years, 50 weeks, 6 days, 0 hours, 40 minutes, and 29 seconds 17:32 <@Bahhumbug> You have quite some time to go. 17:33 <@wilpig> Bahhumbug: do what some people have done and skip 7 outright 17:34 <@wilpig> I have a consulting customer that is still on 5 17:34 <@Bahhumbug> There is no reason to upgrade unless you need the base functionality that the platform offers. 17:34 <@Bahhumbug> With the advent of SCL for EL6 there isn't really a driving need for _most_ customers. 17:35 <@Bahhumbug> SCL == Software Collections (http://softwarecollections.org I think) and brings more modern kit into the field that will remain supported for the same types of life cycles as EL itself. 17:35 <@GateKeeper> Title: Software Collections Software Collections (at softwarecollections.org) 17:36 <@Bahhumbug> I am not a big fan, however. 17:36 <@Bahhumbug> [16:36:33] @c5eol 17:36 <@Bahhumbug> [16:36:33] CentOS 5 will go EOL on 31 March, 2017 -- in 2 years, 37 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, 35 minutes, and 55 seconds 17:36 <@Bahhumbug> [16:36:35] @c6eol 17:36 <@Bahhumbug> [16:36:36] CentOS 6 will go EOL on November 30, 2020 -- in 6 years, 20 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 35 minutes, and 53 seconds 17:36 <@Bahhumbug> Both 5 and 6 still have life in 'em. 17:36 <@Mirage> Bahhumbug: right now i'm finding that in order to get mod_authnz_ldap to properly support MS-AD logins, I need Apache 2.3+/ EL7 comes with 2.4. Granted I can install a newer rpm on el6, but i figured i'd give el7 a chance. 17:37 <@Bahhumbug> However 5.11 just went beta and should drop in the next 30 days. This is the final point release for EL5; everything from this point on are security patches and functional bug fixes. 17:37 <@Bahhumbug> Right. 17:37 <@Bahhumbug> Look into software collections. 17:37 <@Bahhumbug> 2.4 is being pushed. 17:38 <@Bahhumbug> Hughes is building SCL-1.1 as we speak actually. Should be out soon. 17:38 <@Bahhumbug> So it will be supported until the EOL date for C6. 17:38 <@Mirage> the environments we normally support are dicey on allowing the use of EPEL... 17:38 <@Bahhumbug> This isn't EPEL :) This is CentOS devs building and supporting it moving forward. 17:39 <@Mirage> I had to argue profusely to get our internal team to be able to use EPEL for our own stuff. 17:39 <@Bahhumbug> It'll be on the same mirror networks, for instance, as all the other CentOS sponsored repos. 17:39 <@Bahhumbug> I can understand that. 17:39 <@Bahhumbug> Been down that road. Have the t-shirts. 17:39 <@Bahhumbug> I am not as big of a proponent of EPEL as many in the CentOS arena are. 17:40 <@Bahhumbug> The packages are generally stale (due to the EL nature) and I disagree with some of their policies. 17:40 <@Bahhumbug> On top of that EPEL is maintained by the same packagers as in Fedora (not a 1-to-1 mapping, but holds true for well over 90% of packages). 17:41 <@Bahhumbug> And Fedora is absolute motherfucking trainwreck of epic proportions. 17:41 <@Bahhumbug> s/is/is an/ 17:42 <@Bahhumbug> (If you have trouble arguing for the use of CentOS repos, either base or things like SCL, just tell the folks you work with that CentOS == Red Hat for all intents at this point. All 4 major CentOS devs 17:42 <@Bahhumbug> draw paychecks from Red Hat.) 17:44 <@Mirage> being officially recognized and supported by Red Hat is the only reason (other than justification to forgo licensing costs) that management here bought into migrating RHEL5 hosts to CentOS6 17:45 < aestetix_> wait 17:45 < aestetix_> whats the difference between centos, fedora, and redhat? 17:45 <@Bahhumbug> Red Hat sponsors Fedora and has taken CentOS on in a similar role. 17:45 <@Bahhumbug> Fedora is the trainwreck that gets cherry picked for future EL releases. 17:45 <@Mirage> stable/free, unstable/free, stable/not-free 17:45 < aestetix_> ok 17:46 <@Bahhumbug> And CentOS is a 1 to 1 binary rebuild of Red Hat sources. 17:46 <@Bahhumbug> And to add that special kind of wtf... 17:46 <@Mirage> ^mostly 17:46 <@Bahhumbug> Red Hat no longer provides public access to their SRPMs. 17:46 <@Bahhumbug> Those are only available to paying customers. 17:46 <@Bahhumbug> Now all sources are on git.centos.org. 17:47 <@Mirage> They chop out a lot of the RHEL stuff partaining to the licensing/patching infrastructure (satellite, rhn, etc) 17:47 <@Bahhumbug> Not any longer. All are supplied at this point in El7 and likely going to be re-activated in EL6.6. 17:47 <@Bahhumbug> The spacewalk folks requested it. 17:47 < aestetix_> interesting 17:47 < aestetix_> I thought redhat was just centos with support 17:48 < aestetix_> it sounds like they actually have extra software? 17:48 <@Bahhumbug> The only things that CentOS can't ship are those encumbered packages such as Sun's JDK and similar. 17:48 <@Bahhumbug> They do now. 17:48 <@Bahhumbug> There are a bunch of SIGs that are doing cloud related stuff. 17:48 <@Mirage> I could have sworn that the email coming out a few days ago detailing the package diffs listed the stuff for satellite, etc as being removed/ 17:48 <@Bahhumbug> Shouldn't be removed. 17:48 <@Bahhumbug> I can confirm if you'd like. 17:48 <@Bahhumbug> They _ARE_ neutered. 17:49 <@Bahhumbug> You have to activate via configuration. 17:49 <@Bahhumbug> But they should be present. 17:49 <@Mirage> for the centos boxes we use static repos that I build and automated, so we really don't care anyway. 17:49 <@Bahhumbug> http://ur1.ca/hq8r9 17:49 <@GateKeeper> Title: #117459 Fedora Project Pastebin (at ur1.ca) 17:50 <@Bahhumbug> Have you looked into pulp? 17:50 < aestetix_> so wait 17:50 <@Mirage> spacewalk server is ok, but when all you need is a yum repo, it's just too much bloat 17:50 <@Bahhumbug> pulp :) 17:50 < aestetix_> what stops someone from just buying the redhat special binaries and releasing them for free? 17:50 <@Bahhumbug> http://www.pulpproject.org/ 17:50 <@Bahhumbug> The legal arm at Red Hat? 17:51 <@Bahhumbug> The GPL doesn't account for that type of activity. 17:51 <@Bahhumbug> They have to make sources available to paying customers and that's it. 17:51 <@Bahhumbug> For someone to release binaries or ISOs or similar it is a direct violation of the RHN ToS. 17:51 <@Mirage> i think it was mentioned at a local Puppet conference last month, 17:51 <@Bahhumbug> Probably. 17:51 <@Bahhumbug> pulp is getting popular. 17:51 <@Bahhumbug> So is ansible. 17:52 < aestetix_> Bahhumbug: so? 17:52 <@Bahhumbug> Lots of people are running mixed ansible / puppet shops now. 17:52 <@Bahhumbug> So? 17:52 < aestetix_> Bahhumbug: what can they do? 17:52 <@Mirage> In use today: "Puppet Forge is being mirrored with Pulp." 17:52 < aestetix_> Let's say I buy the redhat binaries and then put them on bittorrent 17:52 <@Mirage> Yeah..I bet it was mentioned. 17:52 <@Bahhumbug> 1) Bar your access to RHN. 2) Send you an immediate C&D. 3) Start civil proceedings against you for breaking their ToS. 17:53 <@Bahhumbug> And the point of that would be... what? 17:53 <@Mirage> Bahhumbug: they may neuter him too... 17:53 <@Mirage> aestetix_: go for it. 17:53 <@Bahhumbug> You won't get updates. 17:53 <@Bahhumbug> So that torrent is essentially worth... nothing. 17:54 <@Bahhumbug> If you don't want to pay for it, don't. 17:54 <@Bahhumbug> http://centos.org 17:54 <@GateKeeper> Title: CentOS Project (at centos.org) 17:54 <@Bahhumbug> It's that simple. 17:54 <@Bahhumbug> Most people don't need _support_ as much as _indemnity_. 17:54 <@Mirage> close enough to 5pm..i'm going home.. 17:54 < aestetix_> This is all hypothetical, of course. 17:54 <@Bahhumbug> Ie. someone for management to yell at when something breaks 17:54 < aestetix_> I thought the software was the same, minus the support. 17:55 <@Bahhumbug> For 99.9% of our users... yeah. 17:55 <@Bahhumbug> Those that require RHEV, for instance, are the same shops that have no problems paying for it. 17:55 < aestetix_> what is RHEV? 17:56 < aestetix_> I use ubuntu/debian, so this whole thing is foreign to me 17:56 <@Bahhumbug> Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization platyform. 17:56 <@Bahhumbug> err, platform. 17:56 <@Bahhumbug> Ie. management shit around kvm. 17:56 <@Bahhumbug> (It's more than that, but it's a good enough description) 17:56 < aestetix_> Is that like a redhat virtualbox? 17:56 <@Bahhumbug> @google site:redhat.com RHEV 17:56 <@GateKeeper> Bahhumbug: Red Hat | Enterprise Virtualization for servers and desktops: ; RHEV - Red Hat: ; RHEV-M | Red Hat: ; RHEV - Red Hat Market Place: ; Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization 3: (2 more messages) 17:57 <@Bahhumbug> kvm is their current virtualization platform that they bought... 5? years ago. 17:58 <@Bahhumbug> RHEV is actually the cost of the base platform (@Virtualization) and the RHEV product packages. So you're paying for both. 17:58 <@Bahhumbug> kvm can be managed trivially from the command line or the x11 interfaces if you're a gui weenie. 17:59 < aestetix_> It sounds like the paid model is still so that management can yell at someone when things break 18:00 <@Bahhumbug> For many people, yep. 18:00 <@Bahhumbug> Many people require the jboss environment. $$ 18:00 <@Bahhumbug> RHEV: $$ 18:01 <@Bahhumbug> Those are addons that CentOS (nor SL, Springdale, us, etc) can build and distribute as they aren't free nor covered by a non-encumbered license. 18:02 <@Bahhumbug> But some of the other Red Hat addons like Clustering, Storage and similar are all freely rebuilt and redistributed. So effectively CentOS (and other respins) take the various product channels within RHN, download, play the smack-a-gopher game of rebuilding everything until repo closure is achieved, and release it all as a whole. 18:06 < aestetix_> So how reliable is RH? 18:06 < aestetix_> Ubuntu repos are notorious for being out of date 18:06 < aestetix_> And not having bugfixes 18:06 <@Bahhumbug> Ubuntu is a fucking toy. 18:07 < aestetix_> Example: I'm pretty sure ubuntu 12.04 LTS doesn't support mysql 5.6 yet 18:07 <@Bahhumbug> Red Hat isn't. 18:07 < aestetix_> So red hat actually stays on top of their repo? 18:08 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600 18:08 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ 18:08 < aestetix_> I guess ubuntu is up to 14.04 LTS, but I'm waiting the customary six months to let others find the bugs 18:10 <@Bahhumbug> Red Hat doesn't give a shit about latest and greatest. Latest and greatest == unstable shit and changing API/ABI. 18:10 <@Bahhumbug> Red Hat is about long-term stability of their products. 18:10 <@Bahhumbug> So they version lock base components for the lifetime of the product. 18:11 <@Bahhumbug> If it ships with foobar-1.2 it will always ship with 1.2. 18:11 <@Bahhumbug> The package will get bugfixes and security updates backported into it. 18:11 <@Corydon76-home> Ubuntu is a toy, which means it can take a helluva lot more abuse from clueless people 18:11 <@Bahhumbug> Sure. 18:11 <@Corydon76-home> Red Hat is built for servers, which means it breaks if you cough the wrong way. 18:11 <@Bahhumbug> Let me know when they ship a release that isn't broken. 18:12 <@Corydon76-home> I will, as soon as Red Hat manages to do that. 18:12 < aestetix_> Shouldn't a server be more reliable than that? 18:12 < aestetix_> Bahhumbug: bugfixes != latest and greatest 18:13 < aestetix_> I'd much rather have a more current version of mysql that doesn't crash on a bug 18:13 <@Corydon76-home> aestetix_: not really. You have to understand that most of the production apps out there are cobbled together, so being able to make something broken in various ways is actually a feature 18:13 < aestetix_> true 18:13 <@Bahhumbug> Corydon76-home: I have great respect for you. You are one of the smarter people I've interacted with over the past few years. But in this, I'm sorry, but you really don't know what yu're talking about. There is no comparison between Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Ubuntu. 18:14 <@Bahhumbug> aestetix_: Bug fixes are backported. 18:14 <@Bahhumbug> There aren't bugs. 18:14 <@Bahhumbug> They get fixed. 18:14 <@Corydon76-home> Bahhumbug: I agree; there's no comparison. One is designed for the desktop, and the other is designed for the server. 18:14 < aestetix_> Bahhumbug: ok. That is not always the case with Ubuntu. 18:14 <@Bahhumbug> Please see https://access.redhat.com/security/updates/backporting/ for information on backporting of security fixes and features in CentOS and RHEL 18:14 <@Corydon76-home> Completely different markets with different criteria for engineering 18:14 <@GateKeeper> Title: Backporting Security Fixes - Red Hat Customer Portal (at access.redhat.com) 18:14 <@Bahhumbug> That distinction isn't accurate. 18:15 <@Bahhumbug> RHEL is perfectly fine on the desktop. 18:15 <@Corydon76-home> I would never run Red Hat as a desktop. It's simply not well designed for the task 18:15 * Bahhumbug shrugs 18:15 <@Bahhumbug> The sales of RHEL's desktop entitlements sorta disagrees with you. 18:16 <@Corydon76-home> Bahhumbug: people buy that so they can blame people when something goes wrong, not because it's actually worth a shit 18:16 <@Bahhumbug> I am not really interested in a distro war. I make my living off of EL and have for a number of years and will do so until I retire in one way or another. I demand non-broken infra. Ubuntu can not provide that; either for the desktop or for a server. 18:17 <@Corydon76-home> If you're not interested in a distro war, don't start one 18:17 * Bahhumbug shrugs 18:18 <@rattle> Debian, and fuck you all. 18:18 <@Corydon76-home> Distro wars start because some people don't know when the shut the hell up about distributions they don't run. 18:18 -!- x86Daddy [~x86Daddy@32.144.42.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18 < Ignotus-sdf> I am Debian, too. 18:18 <@Bahhumbug> If people push out wrong information I reserve the right to correct them. If people care to do that with me, cool, I am fine with that. However in this I speak from years of expierence with the products in question, both as a consumer and as a producer. 18:18 < aestetix_> what about gentoo 18:18 <@rattle> aestetix_: You've gone too far! 18:18 <@Corydon76-home> aestetix_: Chromebook is based upon Gentoo 18:19 <@Bahhumbug> And that should rest that case right there :) 18:19 <@Bahhumbug> I would, however, run gentoo over Ubuntu :) 18:19 <@Corydon76-home> For the record, I do run RHEL in production 18:19 < aestetix_> Bahhumbug: you like compiling? 18:19 <@Corydon76-home> But ONLY for servers 18:20 <@Bahhumbug> I don't compile. I build. Subtle, yet important, difference. 18:20 <@Corydon76-home> and it's only so that we can blame the fuck out of VMWare and Red Hat when something goes wrong 18:20 <@rattle> RHEL, CentOS, and Debian are in fact my preferred. Good reasons for using them all in different circumstances. 18:20 <@Bahhumbug> Disclosure. I was working on my own EL respin which is now dormant but we did drop 2 releases. I also am a primary in the ghettoforge EL third party repo. 18:21 <@rattle> At IAWK and Mongo I did internal respins of RH 6.x and 7.x because there were build automation things I just couldn't do otherwise.. But I've got no interest in doing anything even remotely like that again.. :) 18:22 * aestetix_ is now catching up on Amazon Cognito 18:22 <@wilpig> we've got a custom repo but they use stock builds 18:23 <@rattle> That's what we did at CAP w/ debian. 18:23 <@Bahhumbug> Heh, RH6/7 is going back a ways. 18:23 < aestetix_> http://dangerousminds.net/comments/steven_spielberg_animal_killer_inhumane_prick 18:23 <@Corydon76-home> In fact, last time I dealt with Red Hat support, they were absolutely useless. I tracked down and fixed the actual problem over the objections of my boss 18:23 <@rattle> You wind up with situations where there's something you need a custom build for at times, but it often dwindles over time. Nginx and Varnish were both cases of that for awhile. 18:24 <@rattle> I do think it's an important thing to have the ability to do a custom build off your current running package on short notice if necessary, and be able to rapidly deploy. 18:24 <@rattle> You never know when you've got to patch something before official packages are out? Planning ahead for that is wise. 18:26 <@Bahhumbug> I don't argue that at all. 18:27 <@Bahhumbug> I keep readily available mirrors at all major clients and here at the house as well. 18:27 < aestetix_> Bahhumbug: read the link I just posted. 18:27 < aestetix_> It will destroy all your faith in humanity. 18:27 <@Bahhumbug> I have instant access to current source rpms and have mock facilities here and elsewhere to handle clean-room rebuilds if necessary. 18:27 <@rattle> That's the way to roll. 18:27 <@Bahhumbug> aestetix_: Nope. Saw it. Mentally ignored it. Animals cruelty makes me want to punch babies. 18:28 <@Corydon76-home> Bahhumbug: you should still read the link 18:28 < aestetix_> Bahhumbug: you're not alone. 18:28 <@Corydon76-home> Once you see the photo, you'll know what's wrong 18:28 <@Bahhumbug> I actually had patches SSL kit available before CentOS did. And the CentOS stuff was out before RHAT updated. 18:29 <@Bahhumbug> Meh, that was making the rounds yesterday or the day before. 18:29 <@Corydon76-home> And if you were running Mac OS X Server, you wouldn't have been vulnerable in the first place. 18:29 * Corydon76-home ducks 18:29 <@Bahhumbug> I run 5 many places. Guess what? Not vulnerable either :) 18:30 < aestetix_> Corydon76-home: does anyone run Mac OS X server? 18:30 <@Bahhumbug> (This is in reference to Heartbleed, not the subsequent info leak) 18:30 < aestetix_> or windows server for that matter 18:30 <@Corydon76-home> aestetix_: yes to both 18:30 < aestetix_> Since Windows server seems to consist of randomly clicking buttons and hoping it doesn't fall apart 18:31 <@Corydon76-home> Small shops in particular, with no dedicated IT workers, OS X Server makes a lot of sense 18:34 <@Corydon76-home> But once you expand to more than one server, it may make sense for one internal machine, but that's it. 18:35 < aestetix_> huh 18:35 < aestetix_> how does Windows handle scaling? 18:35 < aestetix_> Do you have to get a license for every webserver? 18:35 <@Corydon76-home> Yes, it can get very expensive 18:36 <@Corydon76-home> Figure on spending as much on licenses as on the hardware 18:36 <@Bahhumbug> Hahahaha. More. 18:36 <@Bahhumbug> Much. Much. More. 18:36 < aestetix_> How does autoscaling work? 18:36 <@Bahhumbug> I am not a m$ opponent. For many shops they _are_ the right choice. 18:36 <@Bahhumbug> But it's $$. 18:37 <@Corydon76-home> Generally, autoscaling isn't something you want to do with Windows 18:37 <@Bahhumbug> (I have never touched mac server so I know abolsutely 0 about it) 18:37 < aestetix_> Especially since their solution to sluggishness seems to be rebooting 18:37 <@Bahhumbug> Can you run a local Azure farm? 18:37 <@Bahhumbug> aestetix_: That's the lazy way out and to close cases in a hurry. 18:38 <@Corydon76-home> Mac Server is much like Ubuntu Desktop. If you want to do what they have set it up to do, it'll work fine. However, if you want to do something different, you will struggle with it for hours. 18:38 <@Bahhumbug> Many issues within windows can be corrected with out rebooting if you are willing to spend the time to figure the issues out. 18:38 < aestetix_> Bahhumbug: can you install software updates on Windows server without rebooting? 18:39 <@Bahhumbug> Depends on the updates. 18:39 < aestetix_> That's really sad. 18:39 <@Bahhumbug> If talking DLL, no, not really. 18:39 <@Bahhumbug> (system DLL) 18:39 <@Corydon76-home> I once spent an afternoon trying to get it to accept SSL certificates that were built in a custom way 18:39 <@Bahhumbug> IS? 18:39 <@Bahhumbug> ISS? 18:39 <@Bahhumbug> Damn it 18:39 <@Bahhumbug> IIS? 18:41 < aestetix_> ISIS 18:42 < aestetix_> I remember trying to get php working with iis years ago 18:42 <@Corydon76-home> But yeah, OS X Server is designed for people who don't know what they're doing, and it resists breaking to the point of frustration 18:42 <@Corydon76-home> Even if what you're doing is legit, if it doesn't know about what you want to do, it will overwrite your changes without a warning 18:43 <@Corydon76-home> I'm out 19:42 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600 19:51 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ 20:41 -!- Ignotus-sdf [42df39fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.223.57.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:48 -!- Ignotus-sdf [18637ba0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.99.123.160] has joined #se2600 21:03 -!- Ignotus-sdf [18637ba0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.99.123.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:12 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_d@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #se2600 21:12 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o SuMo_D] by ChanServ 21:13 <@SuMo_D> aestetix_ weaponize your face off - http://www.vice.com/read/weaponizing-our-faces-an-interview-with-zach-blas-715 21:13 <@GateKeeper> Title: Weaponizing Our Faces: An Interview with Zach Blas | VICE United States (at www.vice.com) 21:13 <@SuMo_D> the guy did this at eyebeam 21:13 <@SuMo_D> very relevant to nym rights 21:13 <@SuMo_D> you should go check out eyebeam while your at HOPE if you can 21:20 -!- Ignotus-sdf [18637ba0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.99.123.160] has joined #se2600 21:20 < Ignotus-sdf> maybe this time it won't close on me. 21:26 -!- Ignotus-sdf [18637ba0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.99.123.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:44 -!- ignotus-sdf [~ignotus@2601:0:9400:15:ac4b:7c26:b194:9f2c] has joined #se2600 21:45 < ignotus-sdf> now, maybe this client is working. 21:45 <@northrup> looks like it 21:47 < ignotus-sdf> awesome. I had to restart out of the VM and get back into the brier patch. now I can use my Xchat. 21:48 < ignotus-sdf> thanks for letting me know it is working... 21:49 <@Bahhumbug> Strong piece of advice? 21:49 <@Bahhumbug> Dump that piece of shit wab gateway and don't look back. 21:49 <@Bahhumbug> web even 21:52 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00 <@northrup> Bahhumbug: I must have missed something, which web gateway? 22:00 <@Bahhumbug> Ignotus-sdf [18637ba0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.99.123.160] has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 246 seconds 22:09 < ignotus-sdf> I was using the web to connect because I was connected through my work VPN. 22:09 < ignotus-sdf> xchat only works for me booted straight into my Debian with my home Comcast network. 22:11 < ignotus-sdf> and we have a storm tearing up things down here, so if I drop this time, I think power will be out. But that doesn't usually happen... knock on wood. 22:18 < ignotus-sdf> awesomesauce! I bought the only Samsung Galaxy that nobody recognizes, and Cyanogenmod doesn't have a kit for. 22:19 <@Bahhumbug> Suck. 22:21 < ignotus-sdf> yeah. But I did get the FirefoxOS phone, and I am figuring what I might be able to do with that. 22:28 <@wilpig> woot! solved my logic problem 22:28 <@northrup> I've been wanting to put JalaOS on something... but none of my devices in my shoe box of phones will take it :-/ 22:28 <@northrup> wilpig: Congratulations! GOTO 10 22:37 < ignotus-sdf> JalaOS? Must investigate. 23:06 -!- RangerZ|Laptop [~rangerz@c-69-137-107-2.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 23:14 < ignotus-sdf> Is that JalaOS or JoliOS? 23:26 <@wilpig> so ... ummm nashville folks. is it $25, $30, or $40? http://beta.phreaknic.info/ this is what happens when you let a nutter run things. the voices in her head spoke differently on the main page then they did on the registration page 23:26 <@GateKeeper> Title: PhreakNIC 18 | PhreakNIC (at beta.phreaknic.info) 23:27 <@wilpig> the registration form doesn't work, but I assume that's because this is supposed ot be a preview. 23:28 <@wilpig> since when is a 501c3 a "science/education non-profit " ? 23:37 < RangerZ|Laptop> wilpig: don't care 23:37 < RangerZ|Laptop> just not your problem 23:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> just sit back and watch the show 23:38 < RangerZ|Laptop> gods... I have to tell this to someone in THIS channel... but be more apathetic... about the entire thing 23:39 <@wilpig> I just like pointing out the stupidity 23:39 <@wilpig> dude didn't even bother trying to hide drupal. it's pn8 all over again 23:43 <@Bahhumbug> But it's going live soon!!!111oneoneone 23:44 <@wilpig> I'm going to assume that dagmar's argument of no live code was or will be flat out ignored 23:44 < RangerZ|Laptop> ohh don't worry, there will be an SSL plugin 23:44 < RangerZ|Laptop> so e-commerce on the page will be fine 23:44 < RangerZ|Laptop> ;) 23:44 <@wilpig> oooooo so we're paying for an ssl cert? 23:44 < RangerZ|Laptop> who nkows 23:45 < RangerZ|Laptop> knows* 23:45 < RangerZ|Laptop> not my problem, so I'm just sitting there watching the show 23:45 < RangerZ|Laptop> I'm surprised at Dagmar's self-control though... 23:45 <@wilpig> cause our provider may not allow for one without an extra fee. and we got a good deal with them that we wouldn't want to rock unless you're nuts. we pay them nothing 23:46 < RangerZ|Laptop> if ANYONE other than my current girlfriend touched me in the ways he was touched tonight... I would fucking flip out 23:46 <@wilpig> I take it crazy pants was all over him? 23:46 * RangerZ|Laptop nods 23:47 <@wilpig> cause the only other person I'd suspect would be Corydon76-home and he just doesn't take the joke to that extent 23:47 <@northrup> sweet baud and bits... 23:47 -!- klixa [~klixa@unaffiliated/klixa] has joined #se2600 23:47 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o klixa] by ChanServ 23:48 <@northrup> I had coffee with her once, way upon a time... because... well... sometimes ou want to see if it's an act or they're really bat shit nuts.. 23:50 < RangerZ|Laptop> lets just say... she ruffled his hair for more than a few seconds... 23:50 * northrup shudders 23:50 <@wilpig> northrup: are you trying to say she's batshit? 23:51 <@northrup> wilpig: everyone has their own level of lie that they believe... but she takes that to a whole new level. 23:52 <@wilpig> so it takes someone with an even better delusion to not see the crazy in her? 23:53 <@northrup> wilpig: What's the count of "hacker masterminds" that count her among their 'harem' ( according to her )? 23:54 <@wilpig> 0 23:55 <@wilpig> I gotta get back to this code I am fucking up 23:55 <@wilpig> someone distracted me with crazy 23:56 <@northrup> Heh... sorry - what's the code? 23:57 <@wilpig> opendcim 23:57 <@wilpig> trying to solve a layout problem 23:57 <@wilpig> https://github.com/samilliken/openDCIM/issues/432 23:57 <@GateKeeper> Title: Row view doesnt switch between "Front" and "Rear" correctly if air flow is different for the cabinets · Issue #432 · samilliken/openDCIM · GitHub (at github.com) 23:58 <@wilpig> I could have applied a super quick fix but it would have had edge case bugs and I just said fuck it. It needs to be redone from the ground up and done right 23:58 <@northrup> Heh, I can appreciate that 23:59 <@wilpig> it's what I did to the function that draws the device pictures. took a while but it was worth it. --- Log closed Sat Jul 12 00:00:48 2014