--- Log opened Sun Jan 26 00:00:55 2014
--- Day changed Sun Jan 26 2014
00:00 <@eryc> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2544194/Iconic-Apple-cubes-glass-panel-shatters-New-York-City-snowstorm-know-feel-phones-break.html
00:00 < GateKeeper> Title: Apple cube's glass panel shatters during New York City snowstorm | Mail Online (at www.dailymail.co.uk)
00:01 <@RangerZ> ok, thats the ONLY thing i don't like about finch
00:01 <@RangerZ> it doesn't let me click long links
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00:02 <@klixa> so a server fuckup then...
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00:04 <@RangerZ> eryc: can you repost that link
00:07 <@RangerZ> << closed window on accident looking for config option to handle long urls
00:07 <@Bahhumbug> http://elitedaily.com/news/world/porn-star-christy-mack-announces-shell-give-a-to-whoever-makes-best-lego-creation-for-her/
00:07 < GateKeeper> Title: Porn Star Christy Mack Announces Shell Give A Blowjob To Whoever Makes Best Lego Creation For Her | Elite Daily (at elitedaily.com)
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00:08 <@RangerZ> that worked
00:08 <@RangerZ> thanks, didn't really care about that url itself, but good to test, lol
00:09 <@RangerZ> that was a nice feature of some bots to auto tinyurl stuff
00:09 <@RangerZ> that was over a certain length
00:11  * Dagmar blinks
00:12  * Dagmar orders several hundred dollar's worth of Legoa
00:12 <@klixa> dont bother anarchival will give you one just for coming over to her house
00:13 <@klixa> hehehe...err i mean...
00:13 <@RangerZ> with vodka, atleast
00:13  * klixa gives Dagmar giftcards for more legos
00:13 <@RangerZ> damn it
00:13 <@RangerZ> i want legos
00:13 <@anarchival> klixa: I've already offered Dagmar sex. Wasn't interested.
00:13 <@RangerZ> the robot kids in particular
00:13 <@klixa> anarchival: im not sure i would admit that
00:13 <@RangerZ> lol
00:14 <@anarchival> klixa: there are logs
00:14 <@Corydon76-work> anarchival: you haven't offered it to me yet, so I can express disinterest.  I feel left out.
00:14 <@anarchival> Corydon76-work: I feel that would be disrespectful to Peaches.
00:14 <@RangerZ> i'm all for japanese robot waitresses and maids , where do you think our future tech in robotics is going to come from?
00:14 <@anarchival> RangerZ: Sex bots.
00:15 <@RangerZ> didn't I just mention that
00:15 <@RangerZ> ?
00:15  * anarchival dreams of a day when she can have her very own custom-programmable man.
00:15 <@RangerZ> they will come with waitress and maid outfits
00:15 <@Corydon76-work> anarchival: you should see the guy who has offered to let me fuck him
00:15 <@Corydon76-work> A finer specimen you're unlikely to find
00:15 <@RangerZ> in a good or bad way?
00:16 <@eryc> he has low standards so bad way
00:16 <@RangerZ> but anyways, food run before it turns 12, so bbiab
00:16 <@Corydon76-work> RangerZ: he has taken care of himself physically in an impressive way.
00:16 <@Corydon76-work> washboard stomach
00:17 <@anarchival> Corydon76-work: Okay, pics.
00:17 <@RangerZ> its not hard to 'get' those
00:17 <@RangerZ> its hard to 'keep' those
00:17 <@Corydon76-work> I only have the pics on my iPad
00:17 <@Corydon76-work> I couild probably take a photo of the image
00:17 <@anarchival> Corydon76-work: Okay, I'll wait for nlug.
00:20 <@anarchival> Why haven't they made a stop action Lego movie before? Now that I see the trailer this seems like the sort of thing that should have been done twenty years ago.
00:20 <@klixa> anarchival: im confused... you said you dont like sex and only did it with one person but i see you offering all kinds of sex to peopel now and tlakign abotu it excessively
00:20 <@klixa> explain this
00:21 <@anarchival> klixa: I never said I only had sex with one person.
00:21 <@Bahhumbug> Questionable moral fiber.
00:21 <@klixa> anarchival: hmm, well i guess i misunderstood...you said you were 30-ish the first itme...and how your sex drive only existed briefly or somerhing
00:21 <@anarchival> klixa: Also, in case you haven't noticed, the people in this channel talk about sex pretty incessantly. They started it.
00:21 <@klixa> they arent talking about fuck one another tho...you are
00:21 <@klixa> fucking*
00:22 <@anarchival> klixa: Yeah, you're not paying attention. Corydon76-work flirts waaaaaay more than I do.
00:22 <@Corydon76-work> klixa: anarchival is also not including rape courtesy of her father
00:23 <@klixa> Corydon76-work: huh? my brain is not understanding this sentence
00:23 <@klixa> anarchival: Corydon76-work never claimed to not be into sex tho
00:23 <@klixa> im just curiois abut the contradiction
00:23 <@anarchival> klixa: I'll try to put it into terms you can understand...
00:23 <@anarchival> klixa: I was the emotional equivalent of a bitter, angry forty year old divorcee with three kids by the time I was twelve
00:24 <@anarchival> klixa: It took me a minute to get my sexuality straightened out into something I could explore without pain, much less in what you might consider a healthy, pleasurable way
00:24 <@anarchival> klixa: also, I was a little busy, what with the supporting my mother and establishing a career and earning several higher degrees and having hobbies, etc.
00:25 <@anarchival> klixa: So I didn't start having sex until I reached my sexual peak, when my hormones made my sex drive so difficult to ignore I was forced to go out and find someone - literally, anyone - to fuck.
00:25 <@anarchival> klixa: There were a couple others after the first one. No one I particularly liked.
00:26 <@Dagmar> Correction: We don't talk about sex much.  Corydon talks about sex.  The rest of us just make off-color jokes about sex.
00:26 <@anarchival> klixa: And now I'm back to celibacy, with five year options I can exercise if I receive a better offer.
00:26 <@Corydon76-work> Dagmar:  mostly for the shock value, though, just like aestetix
00:26 <@Dagmar> heh
00:26 <@klixa> Dagmar: well, some of you appraently deliver long ass monologues about it....
00:26 <@anarchival> Dagmar: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do, but somehow we always come back to the fact I lost it at *such a freakishly old age.*
00:27 <@Corydon76-work> I might flirt with Pig, but he and I both know I'm not serious about it
00:27 <@klixa> 5 year options? dafuq does that mean
00:28 <@anarchival> klixa: it
00:28 <@anarchival> klixa: it's a joke you apparently lack the references to understand. Don't let it worry you.
00:29 -!- anarchival was kicked from #se2600 by eryc [anarchival]
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00:29 <@eryc> that never gets old
00:29 <@klixa> i tried earlier, but i guess /kick isnt right
00:30 <@anarchival> Ahh, kids, and your inability to participate in a mature conversation. You kill me.
00:30 <@eryc> being condescending isn't mature loser
00:30 <@anarchival> eryc: Neither is being a troll, but that doesn't stop you.
00:30 <@klixa> anarchival: i need help, can you tell me the definition of delusional
00:31 <@anarchival> klixa: I feel like you'll learn more if you consult the dictionary yourself. Teach a woman to fish and all that.
00:35 -!- Evilpig was kicked from #se2600 by klixa [testing kick]
--- Log closed Sun Jan 26 00:35:05 2014
--- Log opened Sun Jan 26 00:35:07 2014
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00:35 -!- Irssi: #se2600: Total of 47 nicks [28 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normal]
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00:35 <@klixa> well it works now
00:36 <@klixa> anarchival: i dont wana fish...i dont like worms
00:37  * Dagmar sess the channel and laughs
00:38 <@Dagmar> anarchival: If _eryc_ kicked you, take it as a sign that you could maybe stand to be less abrasive
00:38 <@klixa> Dagmar: quit sugar coating it
00:38 <@klixa> less abrasive/s/we all hate you
00:38 <@anarchival> Dagmar: Yeah, eryc went from defending me from Bahhumbug to trolling me with him overnight. Still not sure what I did. I'm sure you're right that it's all my fault.
00:39 <@Dagmar> anarchival: I'm being straight with you
00:39 <@anarchival> Dagmar: Yeah, me too.
00:40 <@Dagmar> At any rate, it's time for me to GTFO and go drink beers in public with other goths
00:40 <@Dagmar> If I'm lucky, one that knows something about massage therapy will be there and will be able to sort out whatever the fuck I've done to my shoulder
00:40 <@Dagmar> I'll be pissed if I have to go to the damn clinic Monday and have someone telling me I have to take fucking muscle relaxers
00:41 <@klixa> get a coke bottle
00:41 <@Dagmar> Cna't stand those damn things
00:41 <@anarchival> Dagmar: I'd offer to help you with that, but you'll just turn me down again.
00:41 <@klixa> stick it against your back , and lean against a wall
00:41 <@klixa> and grind against it
00:41 <@klixa> or a tennis ball
00:41 <@klixa> or just the door itself
00:41 <@Dagmar> klixa: I've gone a bit further than that.  it's the layer of muscle under the damn shoulder blade
00:42 <@Dagmar> Fuckin' hurts to turn my head more than about 25 degrees.  Shit is well and truly locked up
00:42 <@klixa> yeah, i hate that...
00:42 <@klixa> well maybe find anyone willing to help and guide them through it
00:43 <@Dagmar> Opheria was trying earlier but she lacks the ability to visualize muscle groups from what I can tell
00:43 <@klixa> it has to be someone not afraid to hurt you
00:43 <@klixa> cause you have to push things out of the way
00:43 <@Dagmar> Oh believe me she's not afraid to hurt me
00:43 <@anarchival> Mmmm...just listen to that rich molasses. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyGnW2smOUg#t=143
00:43 < GateKeeper> Title: The Lego Movie Featurette - Behind the Bricks (2014) - Morgan Freeman - Chris Pratt Movie HD - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
00:43 <@Evilpig> html spec.  " and ' are equal on element attributes, right?
00:44 <@Dagmar> She's just under the impresion it involves pushing and making circles
00:44 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: No idea.  I worship at the shrine of the classic double-quotes
00:44 <@Evilpig> I do too
00:44 <@klixa> she needs to use her finger and jab under the bone
00:44 <@Evilpig> jose submits some bizare shit and i'm trying to clean it up
00:44 <@klixa> as if she is trying to get under it
00:45 <@Dagmar> klixa: I've always gotten by just visualizing the stuff I saw in those somewhat gruesome anatomy texts
00:45 <@Evilpig> i'm also seeing some weird stuff with firebug and I'm thinking it's because he used single quotes in there
00:45 <@Dagmar> Squishing muscles from one end to the other and back
00:46 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: probably so
00:46 <@Dagmar> HOPEFULLY they'll be playing some damn industrial when I get there
00:46  * klixa likes the more melodic goth
00:46 <@Evilpig> fuck.  it's 1 already?!  damnit.  I gotta get to sleep.  My goal is to be on the road at 8a
00:47 <@RangerZ> Evilpig: lol "sure
00:47 <@RangerZ> "sure you do"
00:47 <@Evilpig> I was up at 8 this morning, assbag.
00:47 <@RangerZ> i mean for driving
00:47 <@RangerZ> all the way to NJ ?
00:47 <@Evilpig> yup
00:47 <@RangerZ> ouch
00:47 <@Evilpig> that's why I gotta get up and get it going
00:47 <@RangerZ> you're in new orleans?
00:47 <@Evilpig> looking about 12 hours
00:47 <@Evilpig> Louisville, KY
00:48 <@RangerZ> ahh
00:48 <@RangerZ> not 'as' bad
00:48 <@RangerZ> but still not fun
00:48 <@Evilpig> i'll just have to finish with this tomorrow sometime
00:48 <@anarchival> Evilpig: Does this help? http://www.webdirections.org/blog/five-reasons-why-you-should-quote-attribute-values-in-html5/
00:49 <@Evilpig> anarchival: I always quote.  the question was whether single or doubles were valid.  doubles have been the way to go forever but different browsers would allow different things
00:50 <@Evilpig> I try overall to be consistent
00:50 <@Evilpig> shit like this...
00:50 <@Evilpig>         if ($templ->FrontPictureFile=="")
00:50 <@Evilpig>             $resp="";
00:50 <@Evilpig>         else {
00:50 <@Evilpig> drives me fucking insane
00:51 <@Evilpig> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/syntax.html#attr-value-single-quoted
00:51 < GateKeeper> Title: HTML syntax - HTML5 (at www.w3.org)
00:51 <@anarchival> Evilpig: Yeah...I could see how that might not be proper.
00:52 <@anarchival> Evilpig: Single quotes are allowed, but then HTML5 gets temperamental about other characters inside the attribute.
00:53 <@Evilpig> I'm just gonna clean all this code he submitted to be validated and fit the rest.  I just need sleep now.
00:53 <@Evilpig> later y'all
00:53 <@anarchival> Evilpig: and mixing the two should result in a beat-down, plain and simple.
00:53 <@RangerZ> Evilpig: you use github right?
00:53 <@anarchival> Evilpig: G'night.
00:53 <@Evilpig> RangerZ: yes
00:53 <@Evilpig> https://github.com/samilliken/openDCIM/commit/67ce63f916831d4a679bab3851dc66753b117c12
00:53 <@RangerZ> i'll show you my one class project, you'll like it
00:53 < GateKeeper> Title: Having to run out to a wedding but wanted to commit this changed code up... · 67ce63f · samilliken/openDCIM · GitHub (at github.com)
00:53 <@RangerZ> it should help you with a lot of stuff
00:53 <@RangerZ> night, ttyl
01:06 <@NotLarry> shhh I'm trying to rest up
01:36 <@NotLarry> anyone see that slashdot article about computer language stasfying a forign language requirement in Ky?
01:39 <@Corydon76-work> That's a creative way to get out of having to do something
01:53 <@NotLarry> The university of alabama used that in the 80's when I was there.  It satisfied the core requirement for a forign language (Unless your degree was in English)
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02:17 <@RangerZ> NotLarry: they actually dropped the F.L. requirement in the STEM college because of me
02:18 <@RangerZ> b/c I signed up for japanese, and couldn't take it the next year (so basically I couldn't "get" my FL requirement)
02:18 <@RangerZ> then the next year they just dropped it entirely
02:18 <@RangerZ> a lot of FL requirements is due to that dept not getting enough students otherwise
02:19 <@RangerZ> (or atleast that was how it was when CSIS was part of the "college of arts and sciences"
02:19 <@RangerZ> which included fl
02:20 <@RangerZ> once CSIS merged with math/engineering to form STEM college , with the chem/bio/etc , no more 'requirement' lol
02:30 <@NotLarry> I wanted to take cs classes, and planned for that to cover my fl requirement, but then in the end I changed to English and between the hookers and the blow never could get the fl requirement completed.
03:26 <@NotLarry> "If a passenger cannot or chooses not to be screened by imaging technology or the passenger alarms a walk-through metal detector, the passenger will be screened using a thorough patdown procedure."
03:43 <@NotLarry> damn, the battery on my laptop does not work.  I will have to not play league during the flight.
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03:52 <@RangerZ> umm internet? don't you think lag would be bad on a plane?
04:08 <@Dagmar>  heh
04:08 <@Dagmar> Just checked my mailbox.  Three of the used CDs I ordered came in.
04:08 <@klixa> \damn
04:08 <@Dagmar> One was clearly _new_.
04:08 <@klixa> i use irc way too damn much
04:09 <@Dagmar> I am outraged at the substitution
04:09 <@klixa> \o/
04:09 <@klixa> wait, does that mean shocked?
04:09 <@Dagmar> ...although mainly i'm wondering how the hell they had a Ministry CD from 1989 still *new*
04:09 <@klixa> O-O
04:09 <@Dagmar> Even had the annoying top edge wrap on it
04:09 <@klixa> in that oe somg they have
04:10 <@klixa> when they say kissed and died or whatever
04:10 <@Dagmar> Now to rip 'em, scan the artwork, and feed them to the Googlenets
04:10 <@klixa> it sounds like they ar saying kirstin died....lol
04:10 <@Dagmar> oe song?
04:10 <@klixa> this corrosion i thjink
04:11 <@Dagmar> This Corrosion isn't Ministry, it's Sisters of Mercy
04:11 <@klixa> hmmm
04:11 <@Dagmar> I fed that one to the GoogleNets just last week, actually
04:11 <@Dagmar> I'm one of those obnoxious people that Google Music dislikes becuase none of my shit deduplicates.  :)
04:11 <@klixa> well i havent head ministry since i had pink hair and combat boots
04:11 <@klixa> heard*
04:12 <@klixa> but i listen to sos all the time...so dafuq
04:12  * klixa is senile
04:12 <@Dagmar> Hrm,... 52 degrees tomorrow.  I guess I'll run the scooter's engine a bit again
04:13 <@Dagmar> With any luck I won't stand there like an idiot cussing it becuase it won't start like the last time
04:14 <@Dagmar> ...becuase i'd forgotten to take the battery back off the charger and put it on the thing.  heh
04:14 <@klixa> oh wait ministry is the same as the revolting cocks people
04:14 <@Dagmar> Partly yeah
04:15 <@Dagmar> What I got in was The Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste, and Twitch should come in a few more days
04:15 <@Dagmar> the first Intermix, and a Rabbit In the Moon remixes CD
04:15 <@klixa> never heard of them
04:15 <@Dagmar> Intermix is what you get when you give Front Line Assembly some LSD
04:15 <@Dagmar> That's not a joke, either
04:15 <@klixa> lol
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04:18 <@klixa> killing game by skinny puppy is one of the only songs like that i have
04:20 <@Dagmar> I gotta get around to picking up their latest album
04:21 <@Dagmar> They made a video for one of the best tracks on their last one, "Pro-Test"
04:21 <@Dagmar> It's a bit nuts
04:21 <@Dagmar> _Industrial_ breakdancers
04:22 <@klixa> whuut...no
04:22 <@klixa> lol
04:22 <@Dagmar> Oh yes
04:22 <@Dagmar> ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS-gGYaA8F0
04:23 <@Dagmar> They did _not_ fuck around
04:26 <@Dagmar> THe two black guys at the end are fuckin' maniacs
04:27 <@klixa> didnt see those red eyes coming...
04:27 <@RangerZ> interesting, i didn't realize that was 'industrial'
04:27 <@Dagmar> Yep.
04:27 <@Dagmar> Skinny Puppy has always been pretty tech-heavy
04:28 <@RangerZ> i listen to lot of stuff like that, just its from EU
04:28 <@klixa> RangerZ: industrial form the 90s is a bit heavier kinda... well imo anyway
04:28 <@Dagmar> I like the track lots but it
04:28 <@Dagmar> s one of the ones I won't play on the bike.
04:28 <@klixa> im not an expert on it or anything... i was always more into melodic dark music...ike NIck Cave and the bad Seeds...Bauhaus, etc
04:28 <@Dagmar> Something doesn't seem right about riding that thing with the stereo screaming "HIT ME"
04:28 <@RangerZ> and more 'dancy' most of the time, during 'our' 9~5 ish, when i listen to it while at work coding (blocking out other people's noise)
04:29 <@RangerZ> Dagmar: or TOO right, as the case may be
04:29 <@klixa> lol @ hit me
04:29 <@Dagmar> I generally don't listen to it while coding at work, becuase where I normally giggle and chuckle, I snarl... which kind of freaks them out at the office
04:30 <@RangerZ> Dagmar: job security
04:30 <@RangerZ> if they are too afraid to every fire you
04:30 <@klixa> anarchy by kmfdm is a good coding song...
04:30 <@RangerZ> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc4XETqgoyQ
04:30 < GateKeeper> Title: Juno Reactor - Conga Fury Animatrix Edit - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
04:30 <@klixa> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAOoiIkFQq4
04:30 < GateKeeper> Title: KMFDM - Anarchy - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
04:31 <@RangerZ> on repeat is what i really like listening to on repeat for hours
04:31 <@RangerZ> no words, just instrumentals, and loops nicely
04:31 <@klixa> although, i dont code...
04:32 <@RangerZ> the 'singing' in the background is just a single sound so 'ehh'
04:32 <@NotLarry> ok, having a little trouble getting google to answer this.
04:32 <@NotLarry> I want to turn on my headless linux box, and have it connect to any open wifi it sees and phone home.
04:33 <@klixa> does headless mean no monitor
04:33 <@Dagmar> Well... yer gonna need some shell scripts
04:33 <@RangerZ> yeah klixa
04:33 <@Dagmar> ...and iwtools
04:33 <@klixa> RangerZ: ok...i have neve r heard that before...but it seemed obvious
04:33 <@klixa> and hope the open wifi has no captive portals...
04:34 <@klixa> speaking of captive portals...i stumbled on something by accident once... i was at a motel and it had a captve portal, etc.. and i manually changed my ip address (cause i was havng issues) and was no longer throttled
04:34 <@Dagmar> Thankfully it's pretty easy to detect a capture portal
04:35 <@klixa> the normal was like 1mb...but by changing ip, i had 10mb...
04:35 <@RangerZ> klixa: bad config on their end
04:35 <@RangerZ> easy to do with an IP3
04:35 <@RangerZ> though I think those have gone by the wayside now
04:36 <@RangerZ> since nortel just sued them out of existence
04:36 <@RangerZ> or linksys... forget who
04:36 <@klixa> well, i had fast net as a result
04:36 <@klixa> i had to redo it every few days
04:36 <@NotLarry> klixa: yeah, headless is no monitor.  I have actually installed an os by connecting my laptop with a null modem to the server serial port.  "When I was your age..."
04:36 <@klixa> you might be y agae now
04:37 <@Dagmar> That's um... not quite the way it works.
04:37 <@RangerZ> nah NotLarry is about to collect social security
04:37 <@NotLarry> this is the internet.  I can be anything you want...
04:38 <@NotLarry> Dagmar: orly?  I swear I did that with a BSDi install.
04:38 <@klixa> RangerZ: :P
04:38 <@Dagmar> NotLarry: ehwot?
04:39 <@Dagmar> NotLarry: The capture portal will present a minor issue
04:39 <@Dagmar> You'll have to detect them being there and then move on to the next (if any) open AP
04:40 <@klixa> i had to use ethernet becuase of a damn captive portal while trying to set up this iPad...and use ics...
04:40 <@klixa> captive portals suck sometimes... they dont work consistently
04:40 <@Dagmar> NotLarry: http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-docs/network-portal-detection
04:41 <@Dagmar> I was actually looking that up a few days ago
04:41 <@Dagmar> It's basically google's way of detecting a capture portal
04:41 <@klixa> oh wow
04:41 <@RangerZ> http://www.batoto.net/comic/_/comics/hana-no-android-gakuen-r10076 ohh yes... this needs posted, a manga with the personifcations of the big cell phone and related companies, android, apple, samsung, etc
04:41 <@Dagmar> It's a reasonably elegant solution
04:46 <@klixa> cant keep eyes open...night all
04:46 <@Dagmar> night
04:48 <@RangerZ> night
04:48 <@RangerZ> Dagmar: so i see a lot of people playing bravely default demo now
04:48 <@NotLarry> mmm
04:48 <@Dagmar> It's not a bad game
04:48 <@Dagmar> A little brutal, but not bad
04:48 <@RangerZ> looks like its going to pretty popular
04:48 <@Dagmar> I have _very_ high hopes for that kickstarter
04:49 <@RangerZ> huh?
04:49 <@Dagmar> Also, it's not _obnoxiously_ a demo, like Fire Emblem
04:49 <@Dagmar> The one you mentioned where the guy who made Ogre and Tactics wanted to make anotehr one
04:49 <@RangerZ> yeah
04:49 <@Dagmar> They were pretty fuckin' close to perfect, although Tactics A2 got a little vague at the end
04:50 <@RangerZ> apparently he created the world and the rulesets, etc, but isn't 'on' the daily dev team, yet. I'm hoping they bring him back for more
04:50 <@RangerZ> but him building the ruleset/world alone should really help
04:50 <@Dagmar> I can't stand chess, but I play the hell out of things like FFTA
04:51 <@Dagmar> The chess fiends at Bongo don't realize it can be harder than chess, because in chess, the outcome of each move is known and fixed
04:51 <@Dagmar> X attacks Y, X _always_ wins
04:52 <@Dagmar> These tactics games?  You better have a fucking backup plan
04:52 <@RangerZ> actually i got the point with chess, where it became unfun, b/c the only way to advance was to memerize sets of moves, and thats not 'creative'
04:52 <@Dagmar> No, I genuinely detest gambits
04:53 <@NotLarry> RangerZ: chess 960
04:54 <@NotLarry> sry, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess960
04:54 < GateKeeper> Title: Chess960 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
04:54 <@NotLarry> Because, while I may have good board awareness and problem solving skillz, I'm too lazy to memorize opening gambits
04:54 <@RangerZ> yeah i'm aware of it
04:55 <@RangerZ> its the only way i'd play now
04:55 <@RangerZ> but i really haven't played much since HS
04:56 <@NotLarry> So, stuff my carry on with raspberry pi and arduino parts?
04:56 <@RangerZ> and LARGE caps
04:57 <@NotLarry> I think I actually have a large cap sitting somewhere.
04:57 <@RangerZ> (i've actually carried that stuff in a checked bag before)
04:57 <@RangerZ> notacon badges are arduinos
04:57 <@NotLarry> ah, yes
04:58 <@NotLarry> Not gonna check a bag.  Not really taking anything with me other than laptop and phone.
04:58 <@RangerZ> http://www.nerdsnook.com/notacon/236-notacon-8-badge-circuitboard.html
04:58 < GateKeeper> Title: Notacon 8 Badge Circuitboard - Nerds Nook (at www.nerdsnook.com)
04:58 <@NotLarry> Maybe take "
04:58 <@NotLarry> Myabe take "Mastering Regex" to impress the chicks
04:58 <@RangerZ> take a single condom with you, so you can take it at the scanner, and wink to the girl
04:59 <@NotLarry> OH, funny, I actually have condoms and cealis (-sp) in the glove box.
05:02 <@RangerZ> surprised you didn't say 'in the white van without windows'
05:02 <@RangerZ> after a statement like that
05:03 <@RangerZ> but anyways, time to crash for myself as well, night
05:22 <@NotLarry> ok, I guess I'm gonna want to take this sticker off my license before I try to fly... http://imgur.com/Jf1tIGn
05:22 < GateKeeper> Title: imgur: the simple image sharer (at imgur.com)
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10:26 < aestetix> man
10:26 < aestetix> reddit is the answer to everything
11:09 <@SuMo_D> what has it answered today?
11:40 <@NotLarry> let me ask
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11:53 <@SuMo_D> http://www.upworthy.com/dya-ever-think-these-guys-are-just-doing-it-for-the-attention?c=ufb1
11:53 < GateKeeper> Title: D’ya Ever Think These Guys Are Just Doing It For The Attention? (at www.upworthy.com)
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12:24 <@Catonic> whee
12:53 <@sdodson> What time of year does Samsung introduce new models? Like normal stuff not crazy CES curved 3d laser tvs and stuff.
12:55 <@brimstone> 3d laser tvs!
12:56 <@brimstone> "The phone's successor, the Samsung Galaxy S4, was announced on March 14, 2013 and was released the following month."
12:56 <@brimstone> springish?
14:08 <@Dagmar> The idea of "curved 3d laser TVs" makes me want to go look at CES coverage
14:08 <@Dagmar> I know it was just word-salad, but something about it...  Yum
14:12  * klixa wants to smash things
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15:47 <@sdodson> brimstone, i meant specific tvs but it seems like March is the time for new products to hit the market for Samsung
15:48 <@sdodson> Dagmar, they're 3d curved tvs, lasers not so much
15:50 <@brimstone> http://modulecounts.com/
15:50 < GateKeeper> Title: Modulecounts (at modulecounts.com)
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16:06 <@sdodson> brimstone, how many brimstonemodules are there?
16:07 <@brimstone> none on those those registries
16:09 <@sdodson> I srsly need help learning how to talk to my gf. <her> snarky comment she makes everytime I do laundry <me> clearly we disagree on this can we just move on and not make an issue out of it? <her> no, you're dumb <me> ok, i'm dumb but I'm not going to change so we can
16:10 < GateKeeper> The word you are looking for is 'seriously'; I strongly urge you to keep this in mind for the future.
16:10 <@sdodson> either ignore this or we can argue about it once a week. <her> why can't you just admit i'm right?
16:10 <@sdodson> GateKeeper, stfu you useless bag of python
16:11 <@brimstone> srly
16:11 <@brimstone> srsly
16:11 < GateKeeper> The word you are looking for is 'seriously'; I strongly urge you to keep this in mind for the future.
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16:11 -!- GateKeeper was kicked from #se2600 by brimstone [stfu]
16:11 <@sdodson> brimstone, isn't that your bot?
16:11 <@brimstone> nope
16:12 <@brimstone> i don't care about this channel enough to run a bot in here
16:12 <@brimstone> i thought it was Bahhumbug's
16:12 <@sdodson> would i be out of line calling her friend and asking for help keeping her from going into superbitch mode?
16:12 -!- mode/#se2600 [-b GateKeeper!*@*] by brimstone
16:13 <@brimstone> nah, call her friend
16:13 <@brimstone> ask if she's got plans tonight
16:15 <@Bahhumbug> Feel free to /ignore it if the text bothers you.  It's in place due to aolbonic bullshit in other channels.
16:16 <@sdodson> Bahhumbug, wuts ur aim?
16:16 <@Bahhumbug> Hmm, apparently I can lock that down to the channels it needs to be active for and not globally.
16:16 <@Bahhumbug> ur mom
16:16 <@brimstone> Feel free to change the config if the text bothers others in the channel.
16:18 -!- GateKeeper [~gatekeepr@unaffiliated/gerdesas/bot/jrd-bots] has joined #se2600
16:19 <@Bahhumbug> Feel free to learn to communicate in proper English using full words if it bothers others in the channel. :)
16:20 <@sdodson> Bahhumbug, It only bothers some faceless bot.
16:20 <@brimstone> srsly bro
16:34 <@eryc> srsly
16:35 <@eryc> roku 3 31% off http://1sale.com/electronics/tv-home-theater/4200r/
16:35 < GateKeeper> Title: Roku 3 Streaming Player for $69.99 + Free Shipping on 1Sale.com (at 1sale.com)
16:35 <@eryc> xbox live $20 off http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-Live-Month-Membership-Online/dp/B002VBWIP6
16:36 <@brimstone> i like my roku 3
16:54 <@anarchival> sex ruins everything
16:56 <@anarchival> Actually, I'm going to translate that into Latin and put it as the motto on my coat of arms
16:56 <@anarchival> Sexus, et Omnia Opera Dissipantis
16:57 -!- stowbari [~Stowbari@cpe-24-165-212-19.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #se2600
16:57 <@anarchival> This replaces my former motto, Difficile ad Interficiendum.
17:04 <@sdodson> eryc, woot has the same, is woot the same as 1sale?
17:07 <@brimstone> has amazon bought 1sale yet?
17:07 <@eryc> sdodson: i dont think so
17:07 <@sdodson> http://www.woot.com/offers/roku-3-streaming-media-player-1
17:07 < GateKeeper> Title: Roku 3 Streaming Media Player (at www.woot.com)
17:07 <@sdodson> 64.99 on woot
17:08 <@sdodson> I have a Roku 2 (XS) maybe I should upgrade. I'm getting tired of waiting for new netflix features to come to my device.
17:08 <@brimstone> +$5 shipping right?
17:09 <@sdodson> brimstone, true
17:09 <@sdodson> Is it worth upgrading?
17:10 <@eryc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1SaleADay
17:10 < GateKeeper> Title: 1SaleADay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
17:28 <@brimstone> dunno, i didn't have a roku 2 (XS)
17:28 <@brimstone> and i don't use netflix
17:28 <@eryc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH4pPeQYvCM
17:28 < GateKeeper> Title: "Watch me eat a mouse for $2" - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
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17:55 < RangerZ1> http://www.dealzon.com/deals/thief-2014#thief-pc-2014 if anyone was looking to get Thief for the PC, there is a 30% off steam coupon here
17:55 < aestetix> take that level 105
17:55 < RangerZ1> :( only 10% now
17:56 < RangerZ1> king can go suck a dick
17:56 < RangerZ1> aestetix: did you see they trademarked 'saga' and am trying to stop a _viking_ game from having saga in the name
18:02 < RangerZ1> let alone trademarking 'candy'
18:04 <@anarchival> Don't ever say I don't love you: http://it-ebooks.info
18:04 < GateKeeper> Title: IT eBooks - Free Download - Big Library (at it-ebooks.info)
18:04 <@klixa> thats fucked...thats like that woman in baltimore trying to trademark the word hon
18:05 <@klixa> anarchival: nice link
18:05 <@klixa> my love cant be bought tho
18:08 < RangerZ1> alot of  (most?) of WROX books are open source
18:08 < RangerZ1> klixa: thats not what you said last night
18:09 < RangerZ1> dagmar offered you an appartment in nashville, and you said he bought your love
18:09 < RangerZ1> lol
18:09 <@klixa> lol :P
18:13 <@anarchival> klixa: http://s386.photobucket.com/user/Davebucket17/media/ObiefishSockPuppet_answer_3_xlarge_zps6b9b0629.jpeg.html
18:13 < GateKeeper> Title: ObiefishSockPuppet_answer_3_xlarge_zps6b9b0629.jpeg Photo by Davebucket17 | Photobucket (at s386.photobucket.com)
18:13 < RangerZ1> not there
18:13 < RangerZ1> or is the 'missing' image the point?
18:14 <@klixa> my ney sux
18:14 <@klixa> net*
18:14 <@anarchival> Oh well here, let me try a different one.
18:14 <@anarchival> klixa: http://www.global-changemakers.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/sock-puppet1.jpg
18:15 <@klixa> i dont get it
18:15 <@klixa> am i supposed to find a sock puppet irresistable?
18:16 <@anarchival> klixa: http://artsandvenuesdenver.com/images/blog/sock_puppet_picture.jpg
18:17 <@klixa> k, now you are just scaring me anarchival
18:17 <@klixa> im liking this head first c book tho
18:24 < aestetix> penis
18:25 < RangerZ1> klixa: if you are going to be getting into c++ let me know
18:26 <@klixa> ok
18:26 < RangerZ1> I'm about to organize doug's talks, from his CS 251 class, which is the intro to c++/design patterns
18:26 < aestetix> you know
18:26 <@klixa> i dont know ay coding atm....tho i have modded some perl scripts...doesnt really count tho
18:26 < aestetix> trademarks and patents basically just need to go
18:26 < RangerZ1> b/c honestly I really only learned the design patterns part of it, the c++ stuff, was 'eh' to me at the time
18:26 < RangerZ1> no trademark is fine
18:27 < RangerZ1> i agree with trademark
18:27 < RangerZ1> but it is abused
18:27 < RangerZ1> patents need to be 14 years again
18:27 < RangerZ1> same with copyright
18:27 < RangerZ1> if the first harry potter and the 2nd star wars films "haven't made a profit yet"
18:27 < RangerZ1> they never "will"
18:28 < aestetix> heh
18:28 < aestetix> yeah
18:28 < aestetix> well thanks disneyt
18:28 < RangerZ1> actually
18:28 < RangerZ1> i don't think it WILL get extended this time
18:29 < aestetix> why?
18:29 < RangerZ1> too mean people realize its silly for the original steamboat willey to not be in the public domain
18:29 < RangerZ1> i've brought it up to a wide range of people, and i've never heard that it makes sense
18:29 < RangerZ1> if it is publicized, i think it would have a chance to be killed
18:30 < RangerZ1> the internet is different since the last time this happened
18:30 < RangerZ1> 97?
18:30 < RangerZ1> 1998*
18:30 < RangerZ1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act
18:30 < GateKeeper> Title: Copyright Term Extension Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
18:34 < RangerZ1> The most "bible minded" city in US is Chattanooga, TN, lol
18:34 < RangerZ1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cipj5PS3tp8
18:34 < GateKeeper> Title: The Most And Least Bible-Minded Cities May Surprise You - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
18:40 < aestetix> peepee
18:40 < aestetix> what does bible minded mean?
18:41 < RangerZ1> read the bible in the last 7 days and agree that it is accurate
18:41 < RangerZ1> oakland is among least
18:41 < RangerZ1> wtg aestetix
18:42 < aestetix> uh
18:42 < aestetix> is that bible minded, or a slave to the bible?
18:42 < aestetix> I personally think the bible is fascinating, but nobody listens to me
18:42 < RangerZ1> it is interesting
18:43 < aestetix> well
18:43 < aestetix> I'm less interested in the content of it
18:43 < aestetix> than the question of "where the fuck did it come from"
18:43 < RangerZ1> than the social/political influence?
18:43 < RangerZ1> ahh
18:43 < RangerZ1> you should read the jefferson bible
18:43 < aestetix> heh
18:43 <@anarchival> I wouldn't define "bible minded" as "believes the stories in the Bible to be historically accurate" but then complexity and surveys don't exactly mix.
18:43 < RangerZ1> jefferson took a razor to the bible, and cut out all the magic and everything he thought was silly
18:44 < aestetix> I actually have part of the Calvin bible somewhere
18:44 < aestetix> yeah
18:44 < RangerZ1> trying t rectify his deist beliefs with christianity
18:44 < aestetix> But things interest me such as.....
18:44 < aestetix> Why is the gospel of john so different from all the others
18:44 < RangerZ1> god being a dick to Job?
18:44 < RangerZ1> lol
18:44 < RangerZ1> easy
18:44 < aestetix> that too
18:44 < RangerZ1> council of nicea
18:44 < aestetix> well yes
18:44 < RangerZ1> the gospels of both Marys were excluded
18:45 < aestetix> and thomas etc
18:45 < aestetix> Yeah, 325 ad was a very interesting time
18:45 < RangerZ1> all political
18:45 < aestetix> I actually have a copy of Gibbon I plan to read soon
18:47 < aestetix> I mean other things are interesting to me
18:47 < aestetix> Like the schism, etc
18:47 < aestetix> Well, schisms. The church schism, the papal schism, etc
18:48 < RangerZ1> if we could get rid of the term "christian" in the USA
18:48 < RangerZ1> religion would lose almost all its power
18:48 < aestetix> I find those topics way more interesting than the bible itself
18:48 < RangerZ1> need to pit baptists vs catholics, etc again
18:53 < aestetix> the funny thing
18:53 < aestetix> in oakland, you have the reverse of the fundamentalists
18:53 < aestetix> here, you have people to freak out at any mention of "god"
18:53 < aestetix> they refuse to have any discussion on theology period
19:03 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o47zQXikvk&list=UUViQ4xAD3EljTI1hwbovvbQ&feature=share
19:03 < GateKeeper> Title: Our Almost Orwellian State & NSA Surveillance Forum - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
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19:23 <@eryc> RangerZ1: is doug doing a c++ class on coursera?
19:23 < RangerZ1> no
19:23 < RangerZ1> cs251 is the class he teaches at vandy
19:23 < RangerZ1> i'm going to organize his youtube
19:24 < RangerZ1> he's filmed every lecture the last time he taught it
19:24 <@eryc> ah
19:24 <@eryc> well i'll watch that when you get it organized
19:24 < RangerZ1> http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt-Wvc_ojTzGLpjhruIXYSw
19:24 < GateKeeper> Title: Douglas Schmidt - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
19:24 < RangerZ1> need to make pretty basically
19:25 <@eryc> i see a lot of android here too
19:25 <@eryc> i only see 3 c++ vids
19:27 <@anarchival> Good god. Why do you people want to learn C++?
19:30 <@eryc> unix has a lot of c++ code
19:31 <@anarchival> eryc: Sure, okay. Lots of applications have a lot of C++ code.
19:31 <@anarchival> eryc: I'm curious what y'all are actually planning on using it for, though.
19:32 <@eryc> i like to modify code to do my bidding
19:33 <@eryc> i can work on C but not C++
19:33 <@anarchival> eryc: Well I guess if you have something you want to do on Unix that isn't achieved with simple scripting, then knock yourself out.
19:33 <@eryc> i'm glad i have your permission
19:34 <@anarchival> eryc: I'm just worried you're wasting your time and effort on a (rather painful) language.
19:35 <@anarchival> eryc: Just about every programmer I know either studied C++ in college and never used it again, or never learned it at all.
19:35 <@eryc> better than learning erlang
19:36 <@anarchival> eryc: It depends on what you want to do. If your interest is in building massive distributed networks, you'd be much better off with Erlang.
19:36 <@anarchival> eryc: Which is why I asked what you're planning on doing. Lots of people study C++ because they think it's the right language to learn. It's not.
19:36 <@eryc> c++ is a good language, i don't really need your opinions
19:37 <@anarchival> eryc: Okay.
19:39 < RangerZ1> c++ is the most important 'single' language
19:40 <@Dickie> C++ is seeing someone now
19:40 < RangerZ1> but thats because every other language's compiler/runtime is written in c++
19:40 < RangerZ1> Dickie: damn it... she is?
19:40 < RangerZ1> that whore
19:40 < RangerZ1> she promised me she wouldn't
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19:42 < RangerZ1> c++ has alot of BS associated with it, but thankfully c++ 11 actually worked to improve that
19:42 < RangerZ1> stopped any "<<" being iostream redirection
19:43 < RangerZ1> and other silly things like that, so now you can use templates and 'accidently' put two < < together
19:43 < RangerZ1> let alone the primitives for multicore/threading/etc
19:44 < RangerZ1> not that _I_ am actually _good_ with c++, I haven't touched it in over 2 years
19:44 < RangerZ1> but anyways, eryc, yeah the vids aren't all posted, and each is like 1.5hrs long, the entire courses just filmed
19:45 < RangerZ1> I'm thinking I might want to cut them up into segments , and then leave the 'entire' video up for those who want that
19:45 <@anarchival> http://lwn.net/Articles/249460/
19:45 < GateKeeper> Title: Re: [RFC] Convert builin-mailinfo.c to use The Better String Library. [LWN.net] (at lwn.net)
19:45 <@anarchival> I thought I hated OO languages, but it turned out I just hated C++. Which gets OO wrong.
19:48 < RangerZ1> should kernel level code be written in c? sure, b/c c is just a bunch of macros for assembly
19:48 < RangerZ1> if absolute speed is what is crucial, then of of course you'd write it as close to metal as possible
19:50 < RangerZ1> my friend writes device drivers for IBM
19:50 < RangerZ1> he can sped 2 weeks working on 10 lines of code, testing all possible combinations of input/output
19:50 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Ironic, considering the intent behind C++ was to write code that ran close to the metal: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/01/the-problem-with-c.html
19:51 < GateKeeper> Title: Coding Horror: The Problem With C++ (at www.codinghorror.com)
19:51 < RangerZ1> not really
19:51 < RangerZ1> i mean 'not really' in the 'ironic' part, not the 'close(R) to metal' part
19:51 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: The inventor of the language says that was his intent on that link you didn't click on.
19:52 < RangerZ1> ^
19:52 < RangerZ1> c++ is NOT forgiving, that is it's problem, and that is where it gets is speed from.
19:53 < RangerZ1> i completely accept that fact that it should take out operands like ',' and and other shit like that
19:53 < RangerZ1> to make it less confusing
19:53 < RangerZ1> c is just as less forgiving, but it has less options
19:53 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Which is part of my point; it's a terrible language for learning how to program. Students would be better served by a language like Python or Ruby or even Javascript.
19:54 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: This is a beef I have with how CS is taught at universities generally.
19:54 < RangerZ1> and your point is what? that schools should switch to teaching exactly how they are currently teaching?
19:54 < RangerZ1> look at vandy's course listing
19:54 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Their emphasis on C++ and Java does not serve students well, either pedagogically or professionally.
19:55 < RangerZ1> thats just a factual wrong statement
19:55 < RangerZ1> i'm sorry
19:55 < RangerZ1> go look for 'programmer' on dice or some other job posting
19:56 < RangerZ1> most corp. jobs are now in c#
19:56 < RangerZ1> and thats true
19:56 < RangerZ1> but learning c++ and/or java first is not a bad thing
19:56 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Yes. And C# and .Net are neither C++ or Java.
19:57 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: In fact, you're going to have to unlearn some bad habit in order to make that transition.
19:57 < RangerZ1> b/c ruby has no bad habbits
19:57 < RangerZ1> nor python
19:57 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Which is precisely the frustration of so many professional programmers I've spoken to with CS degrees.
19:57 < RangerZ1> CS is NOT for fucking programmers
19:57 < RangerZ1> thats why
19:57 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: You can go straight into employment with Ruby or Python.
19:58 < RangerZ1> it teaches programming and computer architecture , and algorithms, and discrete math, and linear algebra, and... lots of shit that 'programmers' don't need on a daily basis
19:58 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: So what major should people pursue who hope to program for a living?
19:58 < RangerZ1> software engineering , CIS , or IT, depending on the school , and how they name/filter things
19:59 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Yep, exactly my point.
19:59 < RangerZ1> or CS if you focus on software development
19:59 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Have you even had one course on lambda calculas, for instance?
19:59 < RangerZ1> what? that people have a misconception about what CS is for?
19:59 < RangerZ1> yes
20:00 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Because I know CS graduates who are discovering FP who never even covered *that* theory.
20:00 < RangerZ1> 4 fucking years, of course you don't learn everything
20:00 < RangerZ1> i never had 'design patterns' in my undergraduate either
20:01 < RangerZ1> but thats not the _point_ of CS, it isn't to teach you _everything_ about every language and every theory
20:01 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: They got a whole lot of other shit they'll never use, though, because much of the theory is so far behind what the industry is actually working on these days that you actually have to learn real software design and programming on the job.
20:01 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: That's just silly.
20:01 < RangerZ1> it is to teach you enough so you can learn whatever you want, and be able to get an intro job as a developer or continue on for more education
20:02 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: So basically, it doesn't give you anything other programmers don't already learn on their own.
20:02 < RangerZ1> sure
20:02 < RangerZ1> w/e
20:02 < RangerZ1> you hate formal education
20:02 < RangerZ1> thats ifne
20:02 < RangerZ1> fine*
20:03 < RangerZ1> CS depts don't teach what you want, so its their fault
20:03 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: I don't hate formal education. I've done a ridiculous amount of it, which has earned me the right to criticize its absurdities.
20:03 < RangerZ1> and yes, it was silly that I didn't learn it, so I told my advisor (now chair of the dept) of how important and good it was , so their next hire was someone in that field. Univ. (especially public ones) have funding shortages and are down profs... so ofcourse they can't teach everything they would WANT,
20:05 < RangerZ1> personally I'd prefer that basic java and shell scripting was taught in HS, that way more formal training of theory was in college, but most HS don't have 2 years of programming classes available to them since the 80s like mine had
20:06 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: It'd be great if there was more CS taught in secondary or even primary school, but I think colleges have a responsibility to teach a curriculum that adequately prepares students for the workforce.
20:06 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: If you're going to spend time studying a language or two or three, at least one of those should have direct applicability in your first job.
20:07 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: And if you really want to make an argument that CS programming is just an exercise to teach theory, then perhaps there should be at least one other paradigm than OO among those languages.
20:08 < RangerZ1> is 4 years of learning NOTHING but programming skills going to give you more _programming skills_ than a CS bachelors, without a doubt, if you actually focus, but you won't have any of the other courses you need for an undergraduate, such a public speaking (b/c all coders love to speak), professional and tech. writing, a math minor (in many schools), statistics, writing 1/2... formal logic...etc etc etc.. The point of a Bachelors of Scien
20:09 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: I'm not just picking on CS here. We're not graduating enough people into a field where people are getting paid six figures. Something is broken.
20:09 < RangerZ1> anarchival: of all the 3 univerisites I've taken classes at YSU, Vandy, and UC Berkelely... they DO teach more paradigms than just OO
20:10 < RangerZ1> my undergraduate in particular teaches cobol in depth for its CIS degree
20:10 < RangerZ1> and shell/unix scripting and c/programming
20:10 < RangerZ1> vandy has an entire course on teaching all the different programming languages CS270... ?
20:10 < RangerZ1> functional, oo, etc
20:12 < RangerZ1> hell... my undergraduate doesn't even have many masters programs at all, b/c with a 4 year engineering degree you could get a great job (60k /year, mon-fri 9-5, no overtime, etc.... and a lot of people wanted that ) easily
20:13 < RangerZ1> mind you things are changing, as has the rest of the world, so are the univ.
20:14 <@Evilpig> what a fuckin' drive.  maryland had the worst fuckin' roads
20:14 < RangerZ1> Evilpig: atleast you don't live in NJ
20:14 < RangerZ1> oh wait...
20:15 < RangerZ1> lol
20:15 <@anarchival> Evilpig: Maryland is a shithole. I fucking hate Maryland.
20:15 < RangerZ1> actually btw
20:15 <@Evilpig> you're a cunt. :D
20:15 < RangerZ1> how do you like not pumping your own gas?
20:15 <@Evilpig> that part I've actually grown to like
20:15 < RangerZ1> yeah, i miss full service stations
20:16 <@Evilpig> so happy to have my truck back too.  really missed it
20:17 < RangerZ1> yeah, i really need to get a truck
20:19 < RangerZ1> still debating the scooter idea
20:19 < RangerZ1> but ehh
20:24 <@anarchival> Okay, so I shouldn't need to buy another tech book in many, many moons.
20:25 <@Evilpig> notlarry is lucking out on transit during his visit
20:25 <@Evilpig> http://www.njtransit.com/var/var_servlet.srv?hdnPageAction=SuperBowlTransitPassTo
20:25 < GateKeeper> Title: New Jersey Transit (at www.njtransit.com)
20:25 <@Evilpig> $50 unlimited NJ train / bus rides
20:25 < RangerZ1> nice
20:25 <@Evilpig> so that will get him from here to the tumblr HQ and then anywhere else he wants to roam
20:26 <@eryc> unless Christie decides to blockade the trains next
20:26 < RangerZ1> oohh... he went there
20:26 < RangerZ1> i was just leaving it alone
20:27 <@Evilpig> i'm fuckin' tired.  think I might just crawl in bed and crash
20:27 <@eryc> that would be wise
20:28 <@eryc> how long was that drive?
20:28 <@Evilpig> ended up being 12.5
20:28 <@Evilpig> that shit in maryland really fucked me
20:28 <@eryc> i was going to guess about 12
20:28 <@eryc> around baltimore?
20:28 <@Evilpig> If it wasn't for that I would have done it in 10
20:28 <@Evilpig> I have no idea where I was.  in the mountains
20:29 <@eryc> were you on 95?
20:29 <@Evilpig> ?
20:29 <@eryc> or 81?
20:29 <@Evilpig> maybe?
20:29 <@Evilpig> I was following the bitch in the box
20:29 <@Evilpig> she said go right, I went right
20:30 < RangerZ1> i would have taken 80
20:30 <@Evilpig> paid zero attention to where I was.  the roads around there were just so shitty that is where my concentration was
20:30 <@eryc> i think i know where you were
20:30 < RangerZ1> 71 n, to 65n to 80e
20:30 <@eryc> i havent been up there
20:30 < RangerZ1> basically get to youngstown, then drive east
20:30 < RangerZ1> completely avoid the mountains and baltimore entirely
20:31 < RangerZ1> probably 'slightly' longer miles wise,or take 70 e
20:35 <@eryc> i think he took 64 to 79 to 68 to 76
20:35 < RangerZ1> yeah, if he went through baltimore
20:35 <@eryc> nah that skips bmore
20:35 < RangerZ1> hmm
20:36 <@eryc> https://goo.gl/maps/a6UN8
20:36 < GateKeeper> Title: Louisville, KY to Trenton, NJ - Google Maps (at goo.gl)
20:36 <@eryc> i dont know if thats where he was going
20:36 <@eryc> i mean, i know it wasn't
20:37 <@Evilpig> louisville to north brunswick
20:37 <@eryc> close enough
20:37 < RangerZ1> but yeah, that sucks
20:39 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o jonnyX] by anarchival
20:42 <@anarchival> 425 ebooks. lolol
20:52 <@klixa> RangerZ1: 80? to get to jersey?
20:53 < RangerZ1> you'd be surprised,
20:53 < RangerZ1> hold on
20:54 <@klixa> yeah, i would be surprised ...i have crossed the country about 30 times
20:54 < RangerZ1> 10hr 54min http://goo.gl/maps/bdSNM 11hr 33min via (rt 80 way) http://goo.gl/maps/Gf7JA
20:54 < GateKeeper> Title: Louisville, KY to New Brunswick, NJ - Google Maps (at goo.gl)
20:54 <@klixa> i avoid 80 tho
20:54 <@klixa> cause i have a bench warrant in cleavland
20:55 <@klixa> well, i avoid 80 in ohio, etc....i use it in wyoming...nebraska, etc
20:55 <@eryc> google says its 14 minutes longer via 80 than what he did
20:55 <@eryc> which in his case was 45 minutes longer than estimated
20:55 < RangerZ1> and 11hr 9min via what wilber did
20:55 <@klixa> well...for me 80 doesnt exist east of iowa, lol
20:56 <@eryc> fastest route wouldve been 71 to 76
20:56 <@Evilpig> and if it weren't for the shitty roads I would have done it in 10
20:56 <@klixa> my roadtrips all take days
20:56 <@klixa> most recent was LA to Austen
20:56 < RangerZ1> yeah... i'd take the train
20:56 < RangerZ1> lol
20:56 <@klixa> a week before that,..columbus to la... took forever
20:56 < RangerZ1> (i've actually ooked into it)
20:56 < RangerZ1> looked*
20:57 <@klixa> id rather drive
20:57 < RangerZ1> columbus to san fran via train isn't too bad of a price
20:57 < RangerZ1> unless you want a private room, then it gets up there
20:57 <@klixa> how much is it
20:57 <@klixa> to drive, for me, its $600
20:57 < RangerZ1> was like 500
20:57 < RangerZ1> then like 1500 for private room
20:57 <@klixa> my car is my private room
20:58 <@klixa> plus i have a dog, baby and other person with me
20:58 <@Evilpig> really big suitcase
20:58 <@anarchival> There is something to be said for just sitting back and letting the train get you there.
20:58 < aestetix> penis
20:58 <@anarchival> Sort of like taking a plane, but much much slower.
20:59 <@klixa> id like a train if it were jsut me...and i was guarneteed to meet a mysterious stranger
20:59 <@eryc> i let my google car drive me
20:59 < RangerZ1> actually nvm
20:59 < RangerZ1> 174$
20:59 < RangerZ1> one way
21:00 < RangerZ1> eryc++
21:00 < RangerZ1> fuck driving
21:00 < RangerZ1> ok... thats not that bad
21:01 < RangerZ1> 1000$ for  for two adults private room
21:01 <@anarchival> "HTTP: The Definitive Guide." 617 pages.
21:01 < RangerZ1> cleveland to san fran
21:01  * anarchival settles into bed with a good book.
21:01 < RangerZ1> I must have been looking at a bad date beforehand
21:02 <@klixa> anarchival: watcha reading
21:02 < RangerZ1> that http book i would guess
21:02 <@anarchival> klixa: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_sTGtHuryEQk/TRg_A6H2yEI/AAAAAAAABEg/skwXTKfSXf8/s1600/IMG_7944.JPG
21:02 <@klixa> wtf
21:03 <@klixa> explain this sock puppet madness
21:04 <@Evilpig> http://www-hollybaby-com.vimg.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/061611_samuel_jackson_buxny250706b_03110616160914.jpg
21:04 -!- anarchival was kicked from #se2600 by klixa [sock puppet]
21:04 <@Evilpig> you bit the troll bait
21:05 <@klixa> oh
21:05 <@klixa> :/
21:05 -!- anarchival [~amberadam@unaffiliated/anarchival] has joined #se2600
21:05 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o anarchival] by ChanServ
21:05 <@anarchival> Who has the richest voice work molasses, Morgan Freeman, Samuel L. Jackson, or James Earl Jones? Discuss.
21:06 <@Evilpig> Patrick Stuart
21:06 <@anarchival> Evilpig: Captain Picard?
21:06 < RangerZ1> Gilbert Gottfried duh
21:07 <@klixa> RangerZ1: ++
21:08 <@klixa> bbl
21:09 -!- Catonic [~catonic@adsl-98-71-68-188.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #se2600
21:09 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Catonic] by ChanServ
21:15 < aestetix> FUCKING FAUXMINISTS
21:15 < aestetix> god I am so sick of this "feeling comfortable" push for inclusion by self-censorship
21:16 <@Dagmar> huh?
21:16 < aestetix> Nothing related to se2600
21:16 <@anarchival> aestetix: That sentence doesn't even make sense to me, and I feel like I pretty well grasp these issues.
21:17 < aestetix> an organization I'm involved in is discussing an anti-harssment policy
21:17 < aestetix> anarchival: what I'm saying is that by forbidding certain things in an organization because you're afraid it might make people "feel uncomfortable", you're committing self censorship in order to avoid driving new folks away
21:18 <@anarchival> aestetix: Yes. I'm sensing this frustrates you?
21:18 < aestetix> I don't believe in censorship, so yes :)
21:18 < aestetix> Further, when someone tries to censor me unreasonably, I get pissed off.
21:19 <@anarchival> aestetix: Come on, now. We self-censor ourselves to make other people feel more comfortable all the time.
21:19 < aestetix> I can understand not talking about anal sex in an elementary school. I do NOT understand banning that conversation from a public forum where adults are present.
21:19 <@anarchival> aestetix: Well, other people do. Me? Not so much.
21:19 < aestetix> anarchival: that's different from ratifying a policy FORCING self-censorship explicitly.
21:19 < aestetix> It's also contextual, whereas a policy is more objective.
21:20 <@Dagmar> There's also the small matter of FUCKING STUPID PEOPLE
21:20 < aestetix> Dagmar: yep.
21:20 <@anarchival> aestetix: Look at it this way: some of the people in this community are telling you that they feel uncomfortable when anal sex is discussed. Wouldn't it be the desirable thing to do to then not discuss anal sex? Are you really losing anything in that situation, beyond offending people?
21:20 <@Dagmar> 'cuz again, if you make a written policy that there wil be no anal penetration, then people are going to get the idea that it used to go on and you had to make a rule against it
21:21 <@Dagmar> That to a _normal_ person, is bad juju
21:21 < aestetix> anarchival: that is what we call a boundaries discussion.
21:21 <@Dagmar> Like, what would you say if your office had an HR policy explicitly forbidding cannibalism.
21:21 < aestetix> If someone says so, I can ask why, and we can negotiate around that.
21:21 < aestetix> It's very different than having someone tell me to not talk about anal sex because they think it MIGHT make someone uncomfortable.
21:21 <@anarchival> aestetix: Exactly. That's all a Code of Conduct is. A statement of the boundaries of the group, so that newcomers know what to expect and everyone is on notice as to what's acceptable.
21:22 <@anarchival> aestetix: Which is particularly useful for groups of people who attract those of us who are a little...well...different. And probably lack really great social skills.
21:22 <@Evilpig> or it's a notice to the public that this group has been a real problem in the past and someone had to sit down and hand them a list of dos and donts like children
21:22 < aestetix> anarchival: two issues with that. First, it depends on what goes into the code of conduct. Second, it falls into the sacred scripts argument, where rather than making contextual judgements, someone pulls out the document and interprets the words in a way to suit their needs.
21:23 < aestetix> I am fully in favor of a code of conduct that says "If you're a douchebag, we'll kick you out."
21:23 <@anarchival> aestetix: Meh. People's definitions of douchebag differ wildly. It's better to address the specific behaviors.
21:23 < aestetix> anarchival: ok, so how many behaviors do you address?
21:24 < aestetix> We have anal sex. What about oral sex? What about sex with donkies? What about images of kittens having sex?
21:24 <@Evilpig> ALL OF THEM!  you're gonna need a hard back edition of this rule set
21:24 <@anarchival> aestetix: Actually, all of these topics are, generally speaking, taboo in polite conversation.
21:24 < aestetix> So if you already know what is taboo, why do you need a code of conduct?
21:24 <@Evilpig> so just have a rule "no speaking in public. any person caught speaking will be deamed rude and ejected"
21:25 <@anarchival> aestetix: I mean the idea that you think anal sex is an acceptable topic to bring up around a group of strangers and acquaintances kind of makes me wonder...
21:25 < aestetix> I was using that as an example :p
21:25 < aestetix> Although I actually have done that before. Again, context.
21:25 <@anarchival> aestetix: Are we talking about Noisebridge?
21:25 < aestetix> no
21:25 < aestetix> I gave up on Noisebridge long ago.
21:26 <@anarchival> aestetix: Okay, I was just curious.
21:26 < aestetix> Although the same issues apply there.
21:26 < aestetix> If I hadn't left before, I would have left over their anti-harassment policy.
21:26 < aestetix> As a bunch of people did.
21:26 <@anarchival> aestetix: Yes. And I was about to say, that's a place where the boundaries have been drawn time and time again, and yet a few assholes in the group still take pleasure in over-stepping them.
21:27 <@anarchival> aestetix: So "we all know what's polite conversation" doesn't actually apply there. Neither does the "be excellent to each other." They're not being excellent to each other.
21:27 < aestetix> anarchival: you studied law. Why is the constitution so vague?
21:28 <@anarchival> aestetix: To give the Courts something to do, or more specifically, to create an opportunity for disputes to be mediated on a case-by-base basis under the common law.
21:28 < aestetix> Ok.
21:28 <@Dagmar> aestetix: By the way it's not self-censorship
21:28 <@anarchival> aestetix: Which of course is no longer the trend in American jurisprudence, and died a long time ago in Europe.
21:28 < aestetix> So wouldn't it also make sense to create a vague code of conduct?
21:29 < aestetix> Dagmar: what would you call it?
21:29 <@anarchival> aestetix: The statutory trend is the basis for the logic behind Codes of Conduct, in fact.
21:29 <@Dagmar> Just because it's a whiny asshole doing causing it instead of an authority-figure forcing it, doesn't mean the whinyi asshole isn't engaging in censorship, passive-aggressively.
21:29 < aestetix> heh
21:29 < aestetix> anarchival: which I strongly disagree with.
21:29 <@anarchival> aestetix: Not really. It's horribly inefficient to regulate behavior on a case-by-case basis. It's also a bit unfair.
21:29 < aestetix> (not your point, but the trend)
21:29 <@Dagmar> When they're trying to get it codified into regulation, then it's no longer a request, it's a demand
21:30 < aestetix> anarchival: a code of conduct creates an illusion that there is some kind of objective truth.
21:30 <@anarchival> aestetix: If people are on notice as to what is proper, then they can conform or not. If they don't conform, they shouldn't be surprised to face the consequences.
21:30 < aestetix> anarchival: that only works if they get to decide what is proper.
21:30 <@anarchival> aestetix: As opposed to someone crosses a boundary, all hell breaks out, mob justice, anarchy, dogs sleeping with cats, etc.
21:31 < aestetix> anarchival: you do realize this is the same argument used to prevent black people from voting, right?
21:31 <@anarchival> aestetix: Yeah, I've noticed those who believe in moral subjectivity have a really really hard time with any sort of Code.
21:31 < aestetix> I believe in moral subjectivity :)
21:32 < aestetix> Or more specifically, I don't like it when others tell me how things ought to be.
21:32 < aestetix> As you can imagine, this leads to issues in Oakland :)
21:32 <@anarchival> aestetix: Even with moral subjectivity, however, you can have standards of behavior.
21:32 < aestetix> Sure. I think "don't be a douchebag" is a great standard.
21:32 <@anarchival> aestetix: Particularly when those standards are formulated by and agreed to by the group.
21:33 < aestetix> The question is not the existence of standards, but the specificity and number of them.
21:33 <@anarchival> aestetix: One of the reasons I took it on the chin when I was banned from Coderfaire, BTW, is because it was within the bounds of the Code of Conduct, which I'd agreed to.
21:33 <@anarchival> aestetix: I violated that shit intentionally; I took the consequences.
21:33 < aestetix> ok
21:33 < aestetix> So right now I'm in a position to help shape a code of conduct, and I'm taking steps to make sure I won't have to get to that point.
21:34 < aestetix> It's also worth noting I'd never agree to a code of conduct I don't believe in.
21:34 <@anarchival> aestetix: Every social group requires compromises.
21:34 < aestetix> Sure, and if there's a necessary compromise within reason, I'm ok with it.
21:34 < aestetix> Like having an event on saturday instead of sunday because someone wants to go to church.
21:36 < aestetix> The difference here is that I can provide solid reasons why things are not reasonable to me. I don't sit back and cry the "it makes me feel uncomfrotable" wolf.
21:37 <@anarchival> aestetix: Please consider that they might be sincere in saying certain things make them uncomfortable. Their feelings are valid, too.
21:37 <@anarchival> aestetix: Whether or not they're worth giving up whatever behavior makes them uncomfortable is another matter altogether.
21:37 < aestetix> Sure. So if gay marriage makes someone feel uncomfortable, do we ban gay marriage, or let that person figure out why it makes them feel strange?
21:37 <@Dagmar> Weasel wording
21:38 <@Dagmar> "valid" doesn't necessarily mean "worthy of action"
21:38 <@anarchival> aestetix: Whether or not we ban gay marriage is another issue altogether, involving the definitions of personhood and nationality and rights and government powers, etc., etc.
21:38 <@Dagmar> seems like we're all on the same page there tho
21:38 < aestetix> If I don't give my cat a treat every time it meows at me, it gets mad. That doesn't mean I'm required to give it a treat.
21:39 <@Dagmar> I think there should be no gay corporate marriage
21:39 < aestetix> What if I'm a black guy in a white neighborhood, and one of my neighbors feels uncomfortable? Do I need to move way?
21:39 < aestetix> away*
21:39 <@anarchival> aestetix: I think a better framing would be: "if someone says gay marriage makes them uncomfortable and they don't want to hang out with people who feel otherwise, do we change our stance on gay marriage or just go hang out with people for whom this isn't an issue?"
21:39 < aestetix> I mean, sometimes "feeling uncomfortable" means "sucks to be you"
21:39 < aestetix> sure
21:40 < aestetix> "We're letting this guy speak at our space. If you don't like it, you can either (1) picket it and protest (2) do something else that night."
21:40 <@anarchival> aestetix: Personally, I avoid groups who do not share my interests, or who are so bigoted that I'm not welcome in them.
21:40 < aestetix> It's funny how many people prefer option 1 to option 2.
21:41 <@Dagmar> They have nothing better to do with their time.
21:41 <@Dagmar> Pity them.
21:42 <@anarchival> aestetix: The weird thing about your examples is, feminists are instituting these policies in various groups because they are like the gays, or the blacks, who have every right to participate in gatherings of like interest but are being made to feel uncomfortable on the basis on gender bullshit.
21:42 < aestetix> Uh.
21:42 < aestetix> That's not true. It's a group of people who call themselves feminists.
21:43 < aestetix> Most of whom are white middle-upper class.
21:43 <@anarchival> aestetix: At least, this is my experience locally. I really can't speak to what's happing where you are, which is why this is a difficult discussion without focusing on specific examples.
21:43 < aestetix> I'm not suggesting there aren't genuine greivances.
21:43 < aestetix> Like, being paid less because you're a woman is not right.
21:43 <@anarchival> aestetix: White middle upper class women still struggle with gender bullshit.
21:44 < aestetix> anarchival: so do white middle upper class men.
21:44 < aestetix> And black people.
21:44 <@anarchival> aestetix: and frankly most tech groups are filled white while middle upper class men.
21:44 <@Dagmar> I thought white privilege made everything okay
21:44 < aestetix> hahaha
21:44 <@anarchival> aestetix: so I'm not sure why their race and class are such an issue?
21:44 <@Dagmar> anarchival: Not our fault
21:44 < aestetix> anarchival: you should ask them.
21:45 <@anarchival> aestetix: One of the problems is, the genders are still pretty well segregated in our culture.
21:45 <@Dagmar> So are the races
21:45 <@anarchival> aestetix: I mean, acceptable behavior for men and for women are still two separate things.
21:45 < RangerZ1> white middle class men had access to computer from a younger age than most other people, and tend to like to interact/play/use them more than others, that isn't an 'issue', the issue is that more people aren't given the same access
21:45 < aestetix> anarchival: perhaps they should focus on the actual issues, rather than sniping their peers.
21:45 <@Dagmar> Blaming just one side for that is fucking pinheaded
21:46 <@anarchival> aestetix: So when women enter male-dominated areas, there is a cultural clash.
21:46 < aestetix> Well, it's less that.
21:46 <@Dagmar> That is an invalid assumption
21:46 < aestetix> And more that for decades, geek culture has been filled with neuroatypicals who don't function well in "polite" society.
21:46 < aestetix> And now that computers are cool, a bunch of neurotypicals are coming along.
21:46 <@anarchival> aestetix: Men don't want to compromise the way in which they're accustomed to relating to each other; women are accustomed to doing it an entirely different way.
21:46 <@Dagmar> ...and that works both weays
21:46 < aestetix> And it's causing a bunch of wtf issues.
21:47 <@anarchival> aestetix: There has to be a compromise in order to de-segregate.
21:47 < RangerZ1> so you're saying women should adapt to the situation they are going into?
21:47 <@Dagmar> So how is that men's fault?
21:47 <@Dagmar> BOth sides should adapt.
21:47  * dasunt yawns.
21:47 <@Dagmar> One side if gaining notoriety for trying to tell everyone else to behave like they want htem to
21:47 < RangerZ1> i know, i'm just point out that she _wasn't_ saying that
21:47 <@anarchival> aestetix: Excellent points, there.
21:48 < aestetix> I mean, what is a "man"? I don't care about sports, and I don't go to the track/gym.
21:48 < aestetix> Please tell me more about this gender role I am supposed to fill :)
21:48 <@anarchival> Typically the dominant group must compromise more than the newcomers; they're the ones who define the culture by default.
21:48 < aestetix> And don't even get me started on the trans issues.
21:48 < aestetix> (I am not trans, just saying)
21:49 <@anarchival> Or else the newcomers have to go start their own group, independent of the dominate culture.
21:49 <@anarchival> Which of course is the definition of segregation.
21:49 <@anarchival> aestetix: It's the feminists I hear talking about the fluid, spectrum nature of gender.
21:49 <@Dagmar> s/have//
21:49 <@Dagmar> Fix'd
21:50 <@Dagmar> ...and typically my ass
21:50 < aestetix> anarchival: so how do they work that with the whole "men harass women" paradigm?
21:51 <@anarchival> aestetix: Don't make me quote FBI statistics at you. Men harass, assault, and kill women far, far more than the other way around.
21:52 <@Dagmar> Fallacy in progress
21:52 < aestetix> anarchival: and yes, I have heard someone who called herself a feminist preach gender fluidity and then condemn men for being an oppressor class, all in the same timeframe.
21:52 < RangerZ1> yes they do, because prostitution isn't legal, but what does that have to do with IT /etc groups
21:52 <@Dagmar> Statistically, men as a whole engage in X more often than women, therefore sub-group Z of men must also do this same thing and MUST BE STOPPED.
21:52 <@Dagmar> Name the fallacy
21:52 <@Dagmar> Fail fail fail
21:52 <@anarchival> Dagmar: We're discussing gender theory at the moment, not tech groups.
21:52 < RangerZ1> also prostitution being legal is only my guess, lol
21:53 < RangerZ1> we are?
21:53 <@Dagmar> No you're discussing it as it applies to tech groups and you're making fallacious arguments right and left
21:53 <@anarchival> aestetix: "Men" is often a shorthand for the terrible concept known as CIS.
21:53 <@Dagmar> The majority has to change more than the minority?  What the fuck is the justifcation for that?
21:54 <@anarchival> aestetix: Which of course CIS is feminists' attempt to better define the precise type of men who typically comprise the "oppressor class" without generalizing to something as vague as "men."
21:54 <@Dagmar> It's their way of applying broad labels. i.e., "labeling".  i.e., the thing theree is so much bitching that one should never do
21:54 < RangerZ1> minority rights, for one, which is why we have the civil rights bill... but the civil rights bill only has an impact on people making use of federally protected services (such as voting)
21:55 <@anarchival> Dagmar: The majority can go tell the minority to go fuck itself and never make any attempt to integrate itself. I've sensed this is your position, when it comes to involving women of a feminist variety in tech groups.
21:55 < RangerZ1> wait?
21:55 < RangerZ1> are we talking about tech groups again?
21:55 < RangerZ1> i thought we were talking generalities
21:55 <@anarchival> Actually, RangerZ1 just made the better point.
21:56 <@Dagmar> No, you've sensed what the voices in your head are telling you
21:56  * anarchival pokes Dagmar with a stick.
21:56 < RangerZ1> my point is that 'civil rights' doesn't have jack shit to do with personal relationshiops
21:56 <@Dagmar> But hey, keep on going with insulting retorts when you get caught in a fallacy or non-sensical argument
21:56 <@Dagmar> I'm sure it'll serve you well on the chans
21:56 < RangerZ1> i'm not going to get fined/thrown in jail for not having a black friend, i would if i stopped that same person from voting
21:57 < RangerZ1> (have had black friends in the past, but lost track of them since moving down here, if anyone cares, lol)
21:57 <@anarchival> Dagmar: You're just angry because we're having a reasonable discussion instead of trolling each other.
21:57 <@Dagmar> Bullshit.
21:57 <@Dagmar> I am making reasonable arguyments amd highlighting lapses in logic
21:57 <@Dagmar> You're being a thungerbitch
21:57 <@Dagmar> er thunderbitch
21:57 <@Dickie> I'm thungry
21:58 < RangerZ1> the problem is... should 'tech groups' force everyone to make new people welcome
21:58 <@anarchival> Dagmar: Only you would claim I'm using specious arguments and then immediately resort to an ad hominem.
21:58 <@Dagmar> Lies.
21:58  * anarchival rolls her eyes at Dagmar.
21:58 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: I would hope we wouldn't need to be forced.
21:58 <@Dagmar> Maybe you should just fucking stop trying to make other people's arguments for them and listen to what they say for a change?
21:59 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: As hackers, most of us have known first hand what it's like to be excluded.
21:59 < RangerZ1> then why put anything into writing?
21:59 < RangerZ1> yeah... then you get out of middle school, and grow up
21:59 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: I imagine most of us also enjoy this shit enough we want to share it with anyone else who might be interested.
21:59 <@Dagmar> Because here we are, all typing away, and you just ignore everything everyone else says and carry on with this "I AM RIGHT BECAUSE YOUR ARGUMENT IS THIS" nonsense.
21:59 <@Dagmar> At least junkies can blame the drugs.
22:00 <@anarchival> Dagmar: trollololol
22:00 < RangerZ1> people wanting to join a group (be it tech, or academic, or whatever) have to learn how to fit in
22:00 < RangerZ1> should that group also try to adjust itself as much as possible to not be HOSTILE to outsiders, yes
22:00 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: To a point, sure. But I think that fitting in should be more about the focus of the group, than the characteristics of the group.
22:00 <@Dagmar> You'll have to try harder than that.  Sdodson's way better at it than you.
22:00 < RangerZ1> but "not being hostile" != "being welcoming"
22:02 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: This is also where my Southern upbringing makes me wonder where people are coming from. Why wouldn't we want to be welcoming, and not just "not hostile."
22:02 <@Dagmar> Generally, being accepting is enough.
22:02 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: I tend to take the attitude, "the more the merrier!" Why would we want to not welcome new blood?
22:02 < RangerZ1> anarchival: i'm sorry, but studies have shown that NYC is the most courteous city in the USA
22:02 < RangerZ1> not the south
22:02 <@Dagmar> The south is full of hypocrites
22:03 < RangerZ1> no... 'more the merrier' is not how groups form
22:03 < RangerZ1> groups form naturally
22:03 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Particularly in a group as small as Nashville 2600 is now, where the officers are reaching burnout because there just aren't enough people to do everything that needs to get done without overburdening particular individuals.
22:03 < RangerZ1> this year's problems is due to being feb and not knowing 'what' PN is doing
22:04 < RangerZ1> or 'will be feb'
22:04 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Let me put it this way: there are nearly two dozen different tech UGs in Nashville right now.
22:04 < RangerZ1> i'm aware
22:04 < RangerZ1> none of them has reached critical mass to obsorb the others
22:04 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: I've attended all of them, some more often than others. 2600 and nlug are *tiny.* They actually feel like they're dying.
22:05 < RangerZ1> they are dying, b/c we're not doing anything
22:05 < RangerZ1> nothing much more than that tos ay
22:05 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: JS has 80-120 participants each month. NashFP is over 40. etc., etc.
22:05  * RangerZ1 dances wildly for them
22:05  * Dagmar claps for RAngerZ
22:05 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: There are several reasons they are doing so well and 2600 is not, including the reasons you cite.
22:05 < aestetix> anarchival: here's a though
22:05 < aestetix> thought
22:06 < aestetix> The "feminism" crap is part of the outrage economy.
22:06 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: But those other groups are also very open and welcoming to newcomers. I'm not getting that feeling from this group.
22:06 <@Dagmar> We are not "our own thing"
22:06 < aestetix> Case in point, Sheryl Sandberg is making millions off her book, and just signed a movie deal.
22:06 <@Dagmar> We are having meetings because of Emmanuel
22:06 <@Dagmar> 2600's readership is not that much
22:06 <@Dagmar> We are _not_ a cattle call of interests
22:07 <@Dagmar> Reminder: It's a 2600 Meeting
22:07 <@Dagmar> PN happens once a year, but it gets a lot more than 80-120 people
22:07 <@Dagmar> I guess those other groups are doing something wrong by your standards.
22:08 <@anarchival> Dagmar: Actually the other local tech cons are drawing hundreds more than PN did for the past few years. I'm comparing UGs.
22:08 < RangerZ1> and PN's attendance is severely hurt b/c of SDC
22:08 < RangerZ1> ^
22:08 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Sure, but that doesn't have to be something we just accept. It could be improved, if we really want it to be.
22:08 <@Dagmar> They don't have SkyDick actively shilling against them
22:09 < aestetix> Does SkyDogCon have a code of conduct?
22:09 < aestetix> Because that would be hilariuos
22:09 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: and by "really want it to be" I do mean "open ourselves up more to people who haven't attended previously"
22:09 <@Dagmar> Doesn't get more open than "anyone who wants to come can"
22:09 <@anarchival> aestetix: Nope. Trevor and I have discussed that extensively. He doesn't believe in them, either.
22:13 < RangerZ1> aestetix: of course she is just milking it for money
22:13 <@anarchival> Dagmar: Most of the local tech community isn't even aware of PN. When I brought it up the year it was the same weekend as Barcamp, they didn't know what the fuck I was talking about.
22:13 < RangerZ1> look at fox news, or rush limbaugh or glenn beck
22:13 <@Dagmar> Most of us had never heard of them, either
22:13 <@anarchival> Add to that Trevor talking shit about y'all and the con, and there's a serious PR problem.
22:13 < RangerZ1> they all create fear etc... to get people to watch them/buy their products
22:14 <@anarchival> Dagmar: Sure, but they have 600+ attendees every year, in a walk, and more money than PN despite the fact they're a one day con.
22:14 < RangerZ1> anarchival: because no one is leading PN right now, jonny is still sick, or was
22:14 < RangerZ1> and everyone else is busy with IRL stuff
22:14 <@Dagmar> So what
22:14 <@anarchival> Dagmar: Having an open door policy is useless if no one knows it's happening.
22:14 <@Dagmar> So you're conflating a lack of saturated advertising with somethign else entirely
22:14 <@anarchival> Dagmar: And it's pretty sad that PN is one of the longest running hacker cons in the country
22:14 < RangerZ1> logistics is the problem
22:15 < RangerZ1> not our 'code of conduct'
22:15 <@anarchival> Dagmar: And the first real Nashville tech con, and this enormous local tech scene that is thriving doesn't even know about it.
22:15 <@Dagmar> ding
22:15 < aestetix> That's a PR issue, not a code of conduct issue
22:15 < aestetix> or logistics, etc
22:15 <@anarchival> aestetix: The Code of Conduct is PR.
22:15 <@Dagmar> The normal "local tech scene" is about capable of running Windows
22:16 <@Dickie> Weren't you guys the con that had the 6 year old playing GTA V for 48 straight hours?
22:16 < aestetix> anarchival: if people don't know about it, then a lack of code of conduct is not why they aren't coming.
22:16 <@anarchival> Dagmar: That's a true assessment of about 60% of the Barcamp crowd, I'll grant you.
22:16 < aestetix> anarchival: and clearly SDC hasn't needed one, so if it *is* PR, it's not significant.
22:16 < RangerZ1> and having a former member start his own rival con, is a big fucking PITA, that others don't have to deal with... plus he fucking told people that PN had  closed down
22:17 < RangerZ1> if you think its closed, you don't look to go back
22:17 < RangerZ1> etc
22:17 <@anarchival> aestetix: I'd rather do it better than SDC.
22:17 < aestetix> Uh.
22:17 < aestetix> anarchival: do what better?
22:17 < RangerZ1> are you on the executive committee ? etc?
22:17 < aestetix> What point is there to a CoC if nobody knows about it?
22:17 <@anarchival> aestetix: Frankly there's a whole slice of people that thing Trevor is slimy and full of shit.
22:17 <@anarchival> s/thing/think
22:18 < aestetix> If you want to have a moral high ground, that's one thing.
22:18 <@anarchival> aestetix: They should be coming to PN, if for no other reason than PN is a better con.
22:18 <@Evilpig> anarchival: everyone eventually thinks that of trevor
22:18 < aestetix> But the first step to getting more people should not be "adopt a code of conduct." It should be "tell folks about phreaknic"
22:18 <@Evilpig> the problem is they don't at first and that's all he needs to get hype.  fresh new followers
22:18 < RangerZ1> sure, but why do you show up after some 10 years absense, then decide to make it your personal goal to change everything to make PN outdoe SDC? I mean... is it because SDC upset you in some way?
22:18 < RangerZ1> outdo*
22:19 <@anarchival> Evilpig: Yeah, I think his latest hype cycle is running itself out, which is why this year is a very good time to strike.
22:19 <@Dickie> strike
22:19 < RangerZ1> with a lead pipe?
22:19 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Sure, that's one reason.
22:19 <@Evilpig> his latest hype cycle ends and restarts each year.  there are endless hoardes of idiots to follow the piper
22:19 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Another reason is that some of the officers approached me about it.
22:20 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: Another reason is that I've been keeping an eye on PN, and promoting it in my own way (such as it was), but wasn't able to participate due to circumstances prior to this.
22:20 <@anarchival> Evilpig: He's hoping to get another injection at Nashville BSides in May. :/
22:21 <@anarchival> Evilpig: Which is another good reason for us to do a room party in conjunction with that conference.
22:21 < RangerZ1> for the con on what date?
22:21 <@anarchival> Evilpig: Hopefully once jonnyx is off his death bed we can get that rolling.
22:21 < RangerZ1> what the 'theme' of this year's PN
22:21 < RangerZ1> what are the speakers?
22:21 < RangerZ1> whats the website for it?
22:21 <@Dagmar> I can bring tables and supply booze.  Who wants to help lift shit
22:21 <@anarchival> http://www.bsidesnash.org/
22:21 < GateKeeper> Title: BsidesNashville (at www.bsidesnash.org)
22:21 < RangerZ1> we can't do shit, without some planning
22:21 <@anarchival> Dagmar: I'll help.
22:22 <@anarchival> RangerZ1: There was going to be a PN meeting on the 19th, but our fearless leader was in the hospital.
22:22 < aestetix> s/hospital/jail/
22:22 <@Dagmar> I doubt htat
22:22 <@anarchival> aestetix: s/jail/Bahrain
22:22 <@Dagmar> He isn't the type to get arrested for random shit
22:23 < aestetix> haha
22:23 < aestetix> you know
22:23 < aestetix> years ago when I did raves
22:23 <@anarchival> I still haven't ruled out that jonnyx flies around in an actual spaceship.
22:23 < aestetix> we had an issue where my partner would keep getting arrested on the way to parties
22:23 < aestetix> I'd show up at the venue and nobody would be there
22:23 <@Dickie> Rave anyway
22:23 <@Dickie> Never. Stop. Raving.
22:24 < aestetix> Because he was a shitty driver. It was like.... impossible for him to not speed and run stop signs.
22:26 <@sdodson> I understand I was used as a benchmark for a good troll?
22:26 < RangerZ1> several times
22:26 <@sdodson> That's some shit.
22:27 < RangerZ1> why? b/c they didn't give you $ for the reference ?
22:27 <@Dagmar> heh
22:27 <@sdodson> I need no royalties.
22:27 <@anarchival> It violates sdodson's trademark.
22:28 < RangerZ1> speaking of trademark
22:28 <@sdodson> Just because I make fun of Dagmar's hysterics doesn't mean I'm a troll.
22:28  * anarchival high-fives sdodson.
22:29 < aestetix> vagina
22:30 <@anarchival> Best Lana Del Ray song: Diet Mountain Dew, Video Games, or Off to the Races? Discuss.
22:30 <@anarchival> Lana Del Rey. Whatever.
22:30 <@anarchival> It was a trick question, anyway.
22:31 <@anarchival> In related news, I could have sworn Royals was Lana instead of Lourde, but then I didn't know Lourde existed.
22:31 <@sdodson> Is that the girl who was just on the Grammys?
22:31 <@anarchival> sdodson: Yep.
22:32 <@sdodson> The closed captioning did some lyric as "whore-able" and I dunno if that's a typo or what she actually sang.
22:32 <@anarchival> sdodson: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/lorde/royals.html
22:32 < GateKeeper> Title: LORDE LYRICS - Royals (at www.azlyrics.com)
22:32 <@sdodson> I know Royals.
22:33 <@eryc> do you know google
22:33 <@sdodson> eryc, plz2b introducing
22:33 <@anarchival> sdodson: That's weird. "horrible" isn't even in the song.
22:35 <@anarchival> Goddammit. Now I wish I'd watched the Grammys.
22:35 <@eryc> instead you were busy trolling
22:35 <@sdodson> eryc, you have an answer?
22:35 <@sdodson> eryc, was it whore-able or a typo by the captioning people?
22:38 <@eryc> i wasn't paying that close attention its in the background
22:39 <@eryc> i've been watching videos and reading pdfs
22:39 <@sdodson> eryc, pdfs about what?
22:39 <@eryc> unity game dev
22:40 <@sdodson> eryc, cool
22:42 < aestetix> btw
22:42 < aestetix> anal sex
23:15 <@Dagmar> Fuck you people
23:15  * Dagmar turns off the heaat.
23:15 <@Dagmar> !#@$! s/heaat/heat/
23:27 <@Dagmar> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1623641_445099002285162_1317389793_n.jpg
23:27 <@Dagmar> Must remember this
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--- Log closed Mon Jan 27 00:00:56 2014