--- Log opened Tue Dec 17 00:00:13 2013
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01:17 < aestetix> boys have penises and girls have vaginas
01:21 < RangerZ> aestetix: stop being a sexist
01:21 < aestetix> how is that sexist
01:21 < RangerZ> you are discriminating people based on their genetics, now how they view themselves
01:21 < aestetix> also, it's a quote
01:22 < aestetix> I guess you've never seen Kindergarten Cop ;)
01:22 < RangerZ> once, when it came out
01:22 < RangerZ> learned my lesson, and forgot it
01:22 < RangerZ> but yeah... i've had a discussion like that... about how 'male' doesn't mean what it 'should' and all that other BS
01:23 < RangerZ> to be honest... i never did quite understand what they were saying... so I can't explain it now
01:25 < aestetix> yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
01:25 < aestetix> they're words
01:27 < aestetix> RangerZ: I agree with Dagmar though. Calling out and public shaming are tools places like the KGB used for control.
01:27 < RangerZ> huh
01:27 < aestetix> Well think abou it
01:27 < RangerZ> << no clue what you're talking about
01:27 < aestetix> If you get called out and shamed if you say something unwittingly
01:28 < aestetix> You are less likely to speak freely
01:28 < RangerZ> calling out and public shaming have existed since the dawn of society, KGB isn't anything special
01:28 < aestetix> And less likely to share an opinion you think others might disagree with.
01:28 < aestetix> well yeah
01:29 < RangerZ> KGB isn't special, except its a good foil for discussion , b/c they are 'bad' and they were efficient at it
02:25 < aestetix> penis
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07:35 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
07:36 <@Shadow404> heya dole-daddy
07:37 <@Dolemite> So I found out yesterday that my IPTV service from TDS is being turned off next month.  Apparently they'd sent out a note in the bill (which my wife handles) that we didn't notice and just trashed.
07:37 <@Dolemite> They are forcing us to upgrade to the new service.
07:39 <@Dolemite> The good thing, though, is that for roughly the same price our internet service is being bumped up to 50 Mbps down/21 Mbps up and we are getting much faster boxes that include whole house DVR sharing.
07:39 <@Dolemite> Supposedly you can also pull the recorded shows with a Media Center extender
07:40 <@Shadow404> whats the price difference? between what you paying now and the FORCED upgrade?
07:40 <@Dolemite> $7/month more than we were paying
07:40 <@Shadow404> aka give us more of your money or you get no service
07:40 <@Shadow404> yeah, not horrible, but no insignificant over a year
07:40 <@Dolemite> Yeah, we weren't happy about that, but it's still cheaper than Charter cable
07:41 <@Dolemite> And Charter maxes out their internet at 30 Mbps down/1 Mbps up.
07:41 <@Shadow404> there is that.... and anything is more reliable than that
07:41 <@Shadow404> who owns the feed lines? charter or TDS?
07:41 <@Dolemite> But at least with Charter I could get an HDHomeRun Prime with cable card and do my own DVR that would actually cut out commercials
07:41 <@Shadow404> sounds like charter is contracting off TDS
07:41 <@Dolemite> No, Charter is coax
07:41 <@Dolemite> TDS is fiber
07:41 <@Shadow404> ah, ok, cool
07:42 <@Dolemite> They each own their physical plant
07:42 <@Shadow404> comcast was just installing fiber in my area from their new plant in marietta
07:42 <@Shadow404> due to be active in feb 2014 to my area
07:42 <@Shadow404> so im getting pretty stoked
07:42 <@Dolemite> TDS has yanked all copper out of Farragut and has FTTH only
07:43 <@Dolemite> Comcast doing FTTH or FTTN?
07:43 <@Shadow404> thats the way to do it, usually they can use the same conduit
07:43 <@Shadow404> im really not sure, i didnt stop to ask
07:43 <@Dolemite> In Middle TN they were doing FTTN
07:43 <@Shadow404> but i saw Comcast Fiber branded trucks with huge spindles
07:43 <@Shadow404> on my road the other week
07:43 <@Shadow404> and checked the site saying fiber, but not what kind
07:44 <@Shadow404> what i wonder is if they will do fiber to the door
07:44 <@Shadow404> they will probably focus on the business accounts first
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08:27 <@Shadow404> just how much does one disclose about what he thinks the company can do better at when having lunch with the CEO?
08:33 <@opticron> depends on the CEO
08:33 <@opticron> and whether you have hard numbers on how much it will save the company
08:35 <@Shadow404> Oh i have hard numbes that ive tested for automating a few processes rather than leaving them manual
08:36 <@Shadow404> but the only problem is that my direct managers say they wont consider as it will put to much strain on our already strained system
08:36 <@Shadow404> which i find to be bullshit, im just automating what we already do
08:37 <@opticron> automate it for your own benefit and tell no one allowing you to get other things done while looking insanely productive?
08:37 <@brimstone> also consider, time is money, so you don't necessarily need a dollar figure
08:37 <@opticron> yeah, man-hours is a hard enough number
08:38 <@Shadow404> yep, im already showing a 200% improvement, they are just worried this will caus the systems to go down, cause its so ridiculously productive
08:38 <@Shadow404> soi they rather we do it by hand slower so we dont go to fast for the system
08:38 <@opticron> ...
08:38 <@opticron> the system needs to be upgraded if it can't handle the "burden" of automation
08:39 <@Shadow404> yeah......lets just say the sys admins in that dept are outsoruced
08:39 <@Shadow404> and thats not happening anytime soon
08:39 <@Shadow404> cause their already way behind schedule
08:39 <@opticron> alternatively, put sleeps in your scripts that make it look like a normal person is doing it
08:40 <@Shadow404> yep, i considered that but manager still didnt approve
08:40 <@Shadow404> problem is she sits behind me and would notice
08:40 <@opticron> awwww
08:40 <@Shadow404> and shes the one being directly told by her manager NO
08:40 <@Shadow404> to the scripts
08:40 <@Shadow404> so im a bit pissed off, they rather me just copy and paste each line of changes by hand
08:41 <@Shadow404> then script it, which i proved 200%+ productivity
08:41 <@Shadow404> wrote a process and business case and got turned down cause they feared it would cause issues with our capacity
08:41 <@Shadow404> sigh
08:41 <@Shadow404> so i wonder if i should go above and incur the wrath of my manager and hers as well when i go over their head during the lunch with the ceo
08:42 <@Shadow404> or just shut up, say all is well
08:42 <@Shadow404> be that model employee and just collect my paycheck
08:42 <@opticron> you could try to get the CEO to drag it out of you
08:42 <@Shadow404> not a bad idea
08:43 <@Shadow404> but thats only if the conversation heads that way and if he really pays attention or this just turns out to be a "pat on the back" thank you for your hard work lunch
08:45 <@opticron> is the CEO the only person above your supervisor's manager?
08:47 <@Shadow404> nope, above that the guy is so far disconnected and self righteous, i would never consider havng a serious discussion with him
08:48 <@Shadow404> hrmm, ther is one person i could go to....but he only knows processes...and would defer back to my manager for feasibility, which is what would happen down the chain if i told the ceo anyway, so its really being stopped by system capacity in the long run and thats another battle entirely
08:48 <@opticron> so fight that battle first?
08:49 <@opticron> so you're not fighting two at once
08:49 <@Shadow404> thats the issue, that dept is completely seperate from ours, this is a script that has to interact with their database to change information in the one we maintain
08:50 <@Shadow404> and from what i heard, that dept is getting alot of flack for the systems being so slow and unreliable
08:50 <@Shadow404> so they are aware of the issue
08:50 <@Shadow404> im not sure if its worth it.....
08:50 <@opticron> so...make it bad enough that they HAVE to fix it?
08:51 <@opticron> though that's getting into firing offenses
08:51 <@Shadow404> i coudl say that one of the difficulties we have right now is that this $dept is slowing down this part of our process and holding up changes that could increase productivity by 200% or better
08:51 <@Shadow404> when he asks what our challenges are
08:51 <@opticron> yep
08:51 <@Shadow404> not a bad idea
08:51 <@opticron> that's a good way to approach it
08:51 <@Shadow404> rather than bitching about my script being an isue just for me
08:52 <@Shadow404> ah ha, thx opticron
08:52 <@opticron> better yet, collect testimonials from others about how $dept being slow is hindering other business processes, too
08:56 <@Shadow404> heh, they know how many times those systems go down
08:56 <@Shadow404> a company wide email has to go out
08:56 <@Shadow404> every time they go down, it creates so many errors for other depts and puts us behind schedule
08:56 <@Shadow404> to catch up again
08:57 <@opticron> sounds like you have a pretty good case
09:00 <@Shadow404> yeppers, just add some food for thought
09:00 <@Shadow404> and get my name in his head as someone that is engaged in the company affairs to be improved
09:01 <@Shadow404> just gotaa make sure i come across positive that i want the change rather than spiteful about it
09:01 <@opticron> yeah
09:10 <@Evilpig> http://t.co/AnDbExgRfZ
09:11 <@Evilpig> wasn't shadow doing math problems yesterday?
09:11 < GateKeeper> Title: Twitter / RobDenBleyker: http://t.co/AnDbExgRfZ (at t.co)
09:30 <@Evilpig> man...  I really did nail the fact that one of my new coworkers is a lazy shit.  not as bad as the houseplant but still
09:31 <@Evilpig> I almost feel like I should point out to the little shit that google docs keeps a revision history and shows that he stopped working on this big project an hour after I left yesterday
09:31 <@Evilpig> keep in mind he was here for another 6 hours after that.
09:36 <@brimstone> who's the schmoo who wants to handle video for phreaknic?
09:36 <@brimstone> Shug_ it seems
09:40 <@Shadow404> Evilpig: yeah i solved that equation finally
09:42 <@Shadow404> 1a,5b,94c
09:49 <@Evilpig> Shadow404: I think you missed the point
09:54 <@Shadow404> i know, but i did solve it
09:54 <@Shadow404> im just not giving you the instant satisfaction
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10:00 < aestetix> oh hai
10:00 < aestetix> well that explains a few things
10:00 < aestetix> I was wondering where everyone went :p
10:07 <@Evilpig> having seen the changes being proposed at the next meeting I can tell you now that some of this shit will not fly
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10:50 <@Dagmar> Shadow404: Not to give you nightmares or anything, but there's almost certainly more than one solution to the problem
10:58 <@Dagmar> Wait nevermind.  Thats' the tylenol PM talking
10:58 <@Dagmar> Forget that
11:01 <@Mirage> Dagmar: Saw BT over the weekend..was not impressed.  He showed up almost an hour late, then for the first 30-45 minutes he was just playing things straight off his laptop and wasn't mixing anything.
11:02 <@Evilpig> BT?
11:02 <@Evilpig> Blutooth?
11:03 <@Mirage> Brian Transeau
11:03 <@Evilpig> still no help
11:06 <@Shadow404> damn, thats disappointing
11:07 <@Shadow404> BT is an electronica artist
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11:14 <@Mirage> Shadow404: He's from KY, what do you expect.
11:17 <@Dolemite> Mirage: Yeah, kids these days.  They have no concept of how to be an actual musician.  They just dub-dub-dub-click-click-click.  Just like Boomhauer.
11:18 <@Evilpig> from KY I expect greatness, and bourbon
11:22 <@Shadow404> yet it gave us Evilpig.....disappointing
11:25 <@Mirage> Dolemite: I should have gotten tickets for Brian Setzer instead.  He was 7 miles from the house vs 35 miles to downtown Dallas
11:25 <@Dolemite> Yep, Setzer would have been good to see
11:25 <@Dolemite> And an actual performer
11:36 <@Mirage> Dolemite: The Pixies are going to be here in Feb.
11:36 <@Dolemite> Mirage: Fuck you
11:37 <@Dolemite> Oh, well.  At least I don't have to deal with traffic.
11:37 <@Mirage> I'm not missing "music city" at all.
11:43 <@Dolemite> I'm certainly not missing the traffic and the crowds, but I do miss having decent restaurants around.
11:44 <@Dolemite> benthemeek: I've added comments
11:50 <@Evilpig> Dolemite: it should probably be pointed out in the history there has only ever been one ban given out and that was to murdock
11:50 <@Dolemite> Evilpig: Two bans.  RBCP was his accomplice.
11:51 <@Dolemite> Oh, no, make that three.  Remember the woman that got into a pissing match with Maverick and threatened to sue?
11:51 <@Evilpig> nope.
11:52 <@Dolemite> ah
11:52 <@Evilpig> was that the pigeon incident?
11:52 <@Dolemite> It was completely Mav's fault, but once she started the lawsuit threats, we thought it best to have her leave.
11:52 <@Dolemite> yes
11:52 <@Mirage> Dolemite: Maverick and Woofus
11:52 <@Evilpig> I wouldn't consider that on the list but I think the only official one was Murdock and RBCP which I didn't remember.  
11:53 <@Evilpig> skydick is persona non grata but even he wasn't banned.
11:55 <@Evilpig> look out.  i'm invoking the wrath of dementia
11:56 <@NotLarry> 2 4 6 6 7 4 5 3 7 0 9
12:00 < nachoguy> 8 6 7 5 3 0 9
12:01  * Evilpig dances
12:16 < oddball> Evilpig: Why?  Last I heard, she has put that crap far in the past.  She now lives in a Skydog-free universe.
12:17 <@Evilpig> oddball: not about that.  I invoked her wrath like this.  msg to dem: t's stripping for you.  https://www.dropbox.com/sc/n7vgh8w4ole38rv/0KDiC1kpCB
12:18 < GateKeeper> Title: Dropbox - Tuesday, Dec 17 (at www.dropbox.com)
12:18 < oddball> heh
12:18 <@Evilpig> so as you see.  I was definitely invoking her wrath
12:18 < oddball> Oh, is that the bottle sweater that Maker's Mark sent you a while ago?  nice
12:18 <@Evilpig> yes
12:19 <@Evilpig> and you know how much she likes maker's
12:19 < oddball> A like the hat they sent this year, but I kind of want the sweater.
12:20 <@Evilpig> the hat is too big
12:20 <@Evilpig> I was hoping it would be just big enough for the top of the bottle, not the whole damned bottle
12:20 < oddball> Is good for cat pictures, though.
12:20 <@Evilpig> ooooooooooooooooooo
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12:20  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
12:21 <@Evilpig> I wonder if I can get that on penny or eve tonight without getting clawed to death in my sleep
12:26 < aestetix> http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/17/verified-label-found-in-instagrams-mobile-app-but-its-not-what-you-think-says-company/
12:28 <@Dolemite> Yay, last meeting for today was just canceled!
12:29 < aestetix> vagina
13:38 -!- NotLarry is now known as WarrenE
13:43 <@Evilpig> Mirage: what do you think of this?  http://www.amazon.com/Super-Feeder-Csf-3XL-Automatic-Capacity/dp/B0044JC8RQ/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A2OROY4NERAT44
13:44 <@Dolemite> Evilpig: I think your mother would love for you to get that.  If you died in your apartment then it's likely the smell would cause the neighbors to call the cops long before the cats start eating your face.  Open casket possibility and all.
13:46 <@Dolemite> What's the quickest way to force a reset on a Win 7 machine where the user forgot their password?
13:46 <@brimstone> Darik's Boot and Nuke
13:46 <@Dolemite> danke
13:46 <@Shadow404> Evilpig: are those bans for ever, or just 1 year?
13:47 <@Shadow404> and why wasnt ware banned?
13:47 <@Evilpig> ever
13:48 <@Dolemite> brimstone: Let me rephrase - what's the best tool for doing so without wiping the drive? :P   I was thinking boot a Live Linux and remove the user.sam?
13:48 <@Evilpig> Dolemite: there is an iso on my ftp to reset it i think
13:48 <@Shadow404> Evilpig: why wasnt ware banned?
13:49 <@Evilpig> ware was a pain at best
13:49 <@Evilpig> Dolemite: winternals ERD Commander 2010 Bootable CD-Rom.iso
13:49 <@Dolemite> Cool, thanks
13:51 <@WarrenE> Dagmar: call me at the noc
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13:51 -!- WarrenE is now known as NotLarry
13:52 <@Shadow404> Evilpig: redirecting the calls at the front desk are illegal....and yes, a perma-ban i think was prudent, but ware did damage hotel property, which he did pay for, but it set a bad example for our con, i would of done 1 year
13:53 <@Evilpig> bah they are calling for more snow this afternoon about qwhen i have to drive home
13:53 <@Shadow404> my humble  2 cents,
13:53 <@Evilpig> Shadow404: redirecting the phones fine.  pranks are pranks.  taking credit card numbers is a federal issue. fuck you, you're permabanned
13:54 <@Shadow404> yeah...agreed
13:54 <@Shadow404> wonder if hes in jail yet?
13:55 <@Evilpig> i'd presume he learned his lesson and grew up
13:55 <@Shadow404> lets hope so
14:01 <@Dagmar> Darn it. I thought I was going to get to hurt someone a few minutes ago
14:02 <@Dagmar> There's a bunch of iditots in SUVs who like to "forget" that there's crosswalks at the intersection outside.  I wait for the walk signal, and then I *walk*
14:03 <@Mirage> Evilpig: Looks to me like you could make something like that yourself cheaper.  A rotary timer..really?!
14:03 <@Dagmar> Today's jackass came to a complete stop, I'm already walking, he starts to go and then stops within inches of me...  Hollers that I should watch it because "I could get knocked over and hurt"
14:03 <@Dagmar> My response: "Oh I can handle being knocked over.  A more prudent question might be, 'Can you handle what I'll do when I get back up?'"
14:04 <@Dagmar> ...because I would *love* to drag some entitled prat out of their Lexus SUV and sit on them until the cops arrive
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14:11 <@Evilpig> damnit dolemite
14:11 <@Evilpig> you fucker
14:11 <@Evilpig> right when I go to talk to him
14:13 <@Dagmar> Heh
14:13 <@Dagmar> NotLarry's saying Nagios isn't doing audible alerts anymore
14:13 <@Evilpig> correct
14:13 <@Dagmar> So, to add another "symptom" to the mux, on Friday, Peter told me that somehow the Chuckle Brothers manage to mysteriously delete the entire NOC site
14:14 <@Dagmar> WHat you wanna bet those dumbasses "upgraded" nagios to a packaged build without looking carefully at it first
14:14 <@Evilpig> nagios only did audibles in IE now
14:14 <@Evilpig> both are plausible
14:14 <@Dagmar> ...and didn't realize they needed to preserve Dolemite's patch to tac.cgi
14:15 <@Dagmar> ...because without that demented thing, Nagios doesn't audible like that
14:15 <@Dagmar> Dolemite: Which reminds me... 'HEIGHT="-1"'.... NO!  BAD CODER!  NO COOKIE
14:15 <@Evilpig> lol
14:16 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: I do dearly hope they fucked with Nagios and didn't file a change for it
14:16 <@Evilpig> Dagmar: if we hit dol's hand with a ruler everytime he did something like that.  the poor guy would have pulverized knuckles and we'd have a pile of broken rulers
14:17 <@Dagmar> ...because I'd really be pleased as punch to have a list of stupid shit they've done since I've gone that demonstrates how badly they do *not* understand Change Management, while all the while expecting me to file fucking full management changes for changing my fuckgin .profile
14:17 <@Shadow404> Evilpig: he might like it to much as well
14:19 <@Evilpig> just to drive this point into the ground some more...
14:19 <@Evilpig> https://github.com/samilliken/openDCIM/commit/6f95326de6d1a1a76f34ff0e218da044e961ff5b
14:19 < GateKeeper> Title: First swat at the XML report for CoolSim CFD. · 6f95326 · samilliken/openDCIM · GitHub (at github.com)
14:20 <@Evilpig> take note of printf
14:21 <@Dagmar> Yeah I can't think of a reason for that
14:22 <@Dagmar> ...but at least it doesn't make me shriek about isset()
14:22 <@Dagmar> If that one doesn't exist, some shit is officially in flames
14:23 <@Dagmar> ..but it's useful to learn new things.  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14093316/why-use-serverphp-self-instead-of
14:23 < GateKeeper> Title: php - Why use $_SERVER[PHP_SELF] instead of "" - Stack Overflow (at stackoverflow.com)
14:24 <@Evilpig> this is true.  I was mainly doing it for html compliance but it is accepted now
14:24 <@Evilpig> you can do wthat with some of the jquery functions as well, i learned.
14:26 <@Dagmar> I can't fathom why the printf tho
14:28 <@rattle> I just had the distinct displeasure of working with a Checkpoint firewall for the first time in ten years.
14:29 <@Dagmar> Oh come nwo
14:29 <@Dagmar> THey're still like playing with firewall tinkertoys
14:30 <@rattle> This was for a lab environment thing..  Not production. (thank god)
14:30 <@rattle> Would you believe the things still don't have zone based policy?
14:30 <@rattle> It's all just src/dst network objects..  Still..  After all these years.
14:30 <@Dagmar> Oh dear
14:30 <@Dagmar> Well, you could probably fake it
14:30 <@rattle> It's like using iptables, or pf.
14:31 <@Dagmar> Weeellll... There's a reason for that.  hehe
14:31 <@rattle> Granted, they've got a bunch of neat routing capabilities..  And they've stapled on much of the functionality you find in PAN.
14:31 <@rattle> But it's kind of amazing how the guts of it hasn't changed in decades.
14:32 <@rattle> I don't even know how you conceptually manage a security policy with 500+ rules without being zone based.  It's gotta be a damn nightmare.
14:32 <@Dagmar> Well, if VUIT netsec is any indication, mainly you fuck up a lot
14:32 <@rattle> And that makes sense.
14:32 <@Dagmar> ...but you can always do overlapping scopes of netblocks
14:33 <@rattle> I suppose if you allocate subnets by some kinda zone structure..  And use overlapping scopes..
14:34 <@rattle> But, you'd have to be super super disciplined about how you allocate subnets.  And if you ever decided to move a segment to a different zone, you'd have to renumber or mess up your rule structure.
14:35 <@rattle> They also still have thick clients for management.
14:35 <@rattle> Many of them.  One for policy management, one for log management, etc..
14:35 <@rattle> Because there's something so complex about policy management that it can't be done in a web browser..  heh
14:35 <@rattle> Or command line.
14:36 <@rattle> (I do think configuring policy management via command line is a exercise in pain, but you can do it!)
14:36 <@rattle> Or should be able to at least.
14:36 <@rattle> (PAN rules)
14:36 <@rattle> (PAN seriously fucking rules)
14:37 <@Dagmar> I trust you saw the pictures of Decius615-a?
14:37 <@rattle> Yes, that's fucking awesome.
14:38 <@Dagmar> I didn't even know they were expecting
14:38 <@Evilpig> did you not see them at PN?
14:39 <@Dagmar> I saw Tom.  I didn't see Anna
14:44 <@Dagmar> Also...  A reminds that a lot of girls tend to "let themselves go" after they're about 25.
14:44  * Shadow404 laughs
14:45 <@Dagmar> Generally asking "So when's the baby due" unless you've been explicitly told up front that they're pregnant is a *great* way to get slapped
14:51 <@Shadow404> when i started this job, i thougth my dept head was just a large woman, till i found out she was pregnant, cause i was to afraid to ask. hehe
14:53 <@Mirage> Dagmar: or married.
14:54 <@Evilpig> Mirage: you saying something about anyone specific?  ... like with an h?
14:54 <@Mirage> Evilpig: just saying.  Once some women get hitched, they don't give s shit about how many cookies they eat, or miles the jog, etc anymore
14:55 <@Mirage> Damn lag on the VPN uplink is making typing annoying as hell.
14:55 <@Evilpig> i'll take lag over random dropping of the connection completely
14:56 <@Mirage> Trying to type into remove VCenter terminal windows I'm getting constantly repeated characters...even with the typematic override in place.
14:56 <@Mirage> grr...remove/remote
15:00 -!- RangerZ [~rangerz@129.59.203.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:08 <@rattle> Argh..  It looks like there's going to be another 3in of snow by the time I leave the office.
15:08 <@rattle> My drive home is going to suck.
15:08 <@rattle> And not because the roads will be bad..  They are truly excellent here when it comes to the plowing and all that jaz..
15:08 <@rattle> Drivers in this state SUCK.
15:08 <@rattle> REALLY BAD
15:09 <@Evilpig> my drive is gonna suck
15:09 <@rattle> You'd think they'd be good in the snow, since we have so damn much of it.  But no, they suck.  In general.  Snow, no snow.
15:09 <@Evilpig> just because it's still snowing
15:09 <@rattle> Mass has the worst drivers of anywhere I've ever been.
15:09 <@Shadow404> rattle: try a state that almost NEVER gets snow
15:09 <@rattle> They even have a name for themselves.  Massholes.
15:10 <@rattle> Shadow404: No, it's provable with empirical data that Mass drivers are the worst in the US.
15:14 <@Shadow404> wrecks:population?
15:18 <@rattle> I can't find the report now..  And Louisiana might have supplanted this state as the worst..  But it's bad.
15:18 <@rattle> I've lived a lot of different places, many of them with very bad drivers.  It's bad here.
15:19 <@rattle> Real bad.
15:19 <@Dagmar> I'd like to see three inches of snow
15:20 <@Dagmar> It would be a noveltly
15:20 <@rattle> We got a foot this weekend.
15:20 <@Dagmar> Hell, let's have a foot of fucking snow in Nashville
15:20 <@Dagmar> INSTEAD OF THE USUAL TWO GODDAMN INCHES OF ICE
15:20 <@Mirage> We had 3" of sleet and ice.  I'd much rather of had snow.
15:20 <@Dagmar> Ya'll should be happy it's just snow
15:20 <@rattle> Oh, we had the 2" of nice earlier this month too.
15:21 <@Evilpig> we got several inches.  not sure if it was a foot
15:21 <@Evilpig> I know we got another inch at least today while i've been here at work
15:21 <@Dagmar> Now it's my turn to gleefully report it's currently 55F in Nashville.
15:21 <@Evilpig> !weather
15:21  * Evilpig kicks the bot
15:22 <@Evilpig> ~weather
15:22 -!- Irssi: #se2600: Total of 37 nicks [21 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
15:22 <@rattle> It's 19F here right now.  When I left the house, it was 1F.
15:22 <@Evilpig> phone says it's 31 outside
15:22 <@Shadow404> !weather
15:23 <@Mirage> The low tonight is supposed to be 50 here..70 outside right now.
15:23 <@Shadow404> ~weather
15:23 <@Shadow404> well crap
15:23 <@Shadow404> 61.7 on my home weather station right now
15:29 <@Evilpig> time for a refreshing mexican coke
15:30 <@Shadow404> with bourbon?
15:30 <@Evilpig> i could
15:30 <@Mirage> With REAL sugar
15:30  * Shadow404 curses humble bundle's name
15:31 <@Shadow404> damn you and your tempting deals
15:39 -!- daveb [~daveb@host-72-51-153-251.newwavecomm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:43 <@Evilpig> the current bundle doesn't look all that tempting to me
15:43 <@Evilpig> little inferno is amusing though
15:53 <@Mirage> omg..coworker fail..  I have the wallpaper up of the star destroyer hovering over the golden gate bridge.  He asks "What kind of ship is that supposed to be?  Something from Star Trek?"
15:53 <@brimstone> End him.
15:54 <@Shadow404> totally worthless human being
15:55 <@Evilpig> +1
15:55 <@Dagmar> The Walking Dead, Season 2, in theory, is available on Steam today
15:55 <@Dagmar> If you've not played the first one, ya might wanna start with that
15:59 -!- Irssi: #se2600: Total of 36 nicks [21 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
16:03 <@Evilpig> i'm updating the headshots on the stats page if anyone wants to submit any
16:08 <@Dagmar> *whew*
16:08 <@Dagmar> Finally convinced Jason that the netsec guys made a policy change at some point around lunch, which is why we can no longer ssh into this server we're building up
16:09 <@Dagmar> ...cuz I was showing him tcpdump and telling him "Nope, tcpdump totally sees the traffic on the wire for that interface, regardless of whatever the fuck bond0 thinks about it"
16:09 <@Dagmar> "We're not seeing any 22/tcp, therefore netsec.  They're notorious for this man."
16:10 <@Dagmar> I had to go through and undo all the bonding shit and revert the interfaces back to being simple ethernet
16:16 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_D@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #se2600
16:16 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o SuMo_D] by ChanServ
16:28 <@Dagmar> Notice how selective VUPD are about reporting near-campus events to the populace: http://www.wtvf.com/story/24242055/one-injured-in-shooting-at-edgehill-apartments
16:28 < GateKeeper> Title: One Injured In Shooting At Edgehill Apartments - NewsChannel5.com | Nashville News, Weather & Sports (at www.wtvf.com)
16:28 <@Dagmar> I don't have anything in my inbox about that at all
16:29 <@Dagmar> ...and you can actually see part of thet back of that building from the Hill Center
16:29 <@Evilpig> I so what to send this document to you dag.  fuckin' a
16:29 <@SuMo_D> gremlins
16:29 <@Evilpig> SuMo_D: you're pink now.  if you want a picture send me one
16:29 <@Dagmar> Eh?  What document?
16:29 <@Evilpig> http://se2600.org/ircstats/week.html
16:29 < GateKeeper> Title: #se2600 @ Freenode stats by Evilpig (at se2600.org)
16:29 <@Evilpig> this set of changes they want to propose to the bylaws at the next se2600 meeting
16:30 <@Evilpig> I would like to strangle this amber bitch right now
16:30 <@SuMo_D> you guys keep stats on the channel? and yes... not pink please... blacker than the blackest night is good
16:30 <@SuMo_D> or red
16:31 <@benthemeek> Evilpig: she means well
16:31 <@Evilpig> You've got two people making suggested changes based on a raw read with no context and conjecture.  now the first is a problem and clearly the wording needs to be adjusted to be more clear.  
16:31 <@Dagmar> So... clearly this will affect the organization.  Is it supposed to be a suprise?
16:31 <@Evilpig> she may mean well but I'm fucking fuming.  "WE ARE NOT FUCKING PyCON"  NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT
16:31 <@Evilpig> fuck
16:31 <@Dagmar> Oh, it's one of *those* kinds of changes.
16:31 <@Dagmar> No worries.  I'll make sure i'm good and caffienated up.
16:31 <@Evilpig> not a surprise just stopping the stupid before it even gets proposed
16:31 <@Dagmar> I owe her for that 'Wow you guys got *old*' comment
16:32 <@benthemeek> LOL
16:32 <@Evilpig> SuMo_D: you're pink cause pink is default.  I think red are bots actually
16:32 <@Dagmar> I came real close to saying 'Wow you got fat'
16:32 <@SuMo_D> actually it looks red on my screen
16:32 <@benthemeek> I added that one discrimination paragraph in the second revision
16:32 <@benthemeek> and I chopped it a little
16:32 <@benthemeek> if it makes people feel good... *shrugs*
16:32 <@Evilpig> get rid of that.  that shit is retarded and not to be a part of the bylaws 
16:32 <@Evilpig> fuck feel good.  that's what's wrong with this country today
16:33 <@Evilpig> I am not here to make you feel fucking good about yourself
16:33 <@Evilpig> if you're a fat fuck, you're a fat fuck and you shoudl deal with it
16:33 <@Evilpig> we aren't going out of our way to upset people and we aren't gonna go out of our way to coddle them either
16:33 <@Dagmar> I am still considering issuing blue cards
16:34 <@Dagmar> "You have been seen either though action or speech performing lewd, overtly-sexual, or lascivious actions in public at this convention.  We approve."
16:34 <@benthemeek> So you for one will lobby that this paragraph shouldnt be there, so I am going to remove it because you will convince others and then we wont be able to get it passed...
16:34 <@benthemeek> way to go :P
16:35 <@benthemeek> Dagmar: lol
16:35 <@Dagmar> I want to see it before I declare it fauxminist drek
16:35 <@Evilpig> the changes to the bylaws can be done one by one.  it isn't all or none
16:35 <@Evilpig> Bullying, violence or threats of violence, harassment, discrimination, or any other disrespectful behavior towards members or attendees of organization-sponsored events including but not limited to its regular meetings and PhreakNIC are contrary to the mission of the organization. Such behavior will not be tolerated. The Board is responsible for maintaining a written standard procedure for appropriately addressing such situations and ensuring the safe, enjoyable experience of all members and attendees, of educating the officers in its correct implementation, and publishing the policy for the information of members and attendees. Incidents of such behavior should be reported to any officer or Board member as soon as possible. The recipient of the report shall consult with at least one other officer or Board member who is in no way involved in the incident to assist with implementing the Board policy appropriate to the incident. Any officer or Board member may immediately ban from attendance any person who violates the mission in such an egregious manner. The banishment of any dues-paying member must subsequently be approved by the Board and noted with detail in the membership records of the organization. If a member violates the Board policy in a manner that does not warrant banishment, the Board may still decide to note the incident in the membership records.
16:35 <@Evilpig> where did that chop?
16:36 <@Dagmar> "enjoyabl"
16:36 <@Evilpig> I should have just stopped with bullying.  fuck that noise
16:36 <@Evilpig> enjoyable experience of all members and attendees, of educating the officers in its correct implementation, and publishing the policy for the information of members and attendees. Incidents of such behavior should be reported to any officer or Board member as soon as possible. The recipient of the report shall consult with at least one other officer or Board member who is in no way involved in the incident to assist with implementing the Board policy appropriate to the incident. Any officer or Board member may immediately ban from attendance any person who violates the 
16:36 <@Evilpig> mission in such an egregious manner. The banishment of any dues-paying member must subsequently be approved by the Board and noted with detail in the membership records of the organization. If a member violates the Board policy in a manner that does not warrant banishment, the Board may still decide to note the incident in the membership records.
16:37 <@Dagmar> Perhaps if the phrase 'unwanted' or 'excessive' were involved in there
16:37 <@Evilpig> Or just leave it out
16:37 <@Evilpig> It's putting into words reasons for peopel to get pissy about me calling them an asshole
16:37 <@Evilpig> NotLarry: you're an asshole
16:37 <@SuMo_D> you should just turn everyone pink
16:37 <@Dagmar> Who among us hasn't said at least once during PhreakNIC, 'I will CUT you, bitch'/
16:37 <@benthemeek> lol
16:37 <@SuMo_D> and throw them all into the blackest of the blackest nights
16:38 <@benthemeek> Well that first document has so many changes i get a head ache looking at it
16:38 <@Dagmar> The phrase non-consensual should be in there at least
16:38 <@Evilpig> Dagmar: that statement alone is enough to incur a possible ban because of that shit up there.  in gest or now
16:38 <@Shadow404> does this include the #se2600 sponsored irc channel for harrasement?
16:38 <@Evilpig> not
16:38 <@benthemeek> The second is much more reasonable and makes sense
16:38 <@Evilpig> Shadow404: surewhy not
16:38 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: Yeah, I know
16:38 <@Dagmar> It completely fails to take into account that small amounts of bullying, violence, and threats of violence, are a part of how we get shit done
16:38 <@Shadow404> so if i call Evilpig a stupid fucker in irc, is that grounds to ban me from PN?
16:38 <@Evilpig> this is why it doesn't need to be there in the first place.  we are not thought police, we are not your friend, we are not your mommy or daddy.  Fuck you fatty, eat a carrot.
16:39  * benthemeek mind is blown.... then like EVERYONE would be banned...
16:39 <@Dagmar> The key phrase being 'small' amounts
16:40 <@Dagmar> Perhaps we could just rewrite it to declare that members are expected to behave as if they were raised by loving parents, and not, as may be the case, a packe of rapewolves from North Sodomia
16:40 <@benthemeek> LOL
16:40 <@Dagmar> We could even include the phrase 'reasonably respectful (where the use of Apple products is not excessive)'
16:40 <@benthemeek> I think we should just have one sentence to replace that one. Any "funny business" should be reported to the board.
16:41 <@benthemeek> The let everyone decides what that means
16:41 -!- RangerZ [~mike@c-98-211-46-74.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
16:41 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: You've come at a great time
16:42  * Evilpig kicks RangerZ in the nuts
16:42 <@Evilpig> oh look.  violence!  fuck me, gimme a ban
16:43 <@Evilpig> btw my coworkers might be looking for a straight jacket now because i'm fucking ranting like a loon
16:43 <@Evilpig> of which I did declare I wanted a device that would allow me to reach through the internet and strangle some bitches, RIGHT NOW
16:43 <@Dagmar> Hell, who doesn't want that
16:44 <@Dagmar> I think there's even an RFC for a remote strangulation procotol
16:44  * Shadow404 throws a chair at Evilpig 
16:45 <@Evilpig> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RemoteStrangulationProtocol
16:45 < GateKeeper> Title: Remote Strangulation Protocol (at c2.com)
16:46 <@Evilpig> lol  http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/TSTANLEY/Acme-Remote-Strangulation-Protocol-0.03/Protocol.pm
16:47  * SuMo_D decorates the room with Apple logo stickers and vaginas!
16:47 <@SuMo_D> does that count as creating a hostile environment?
16:48  * Shadow404 poops on the speaker podium
16:48 <@Shadow404> is that not respectful
16:48 <@Evilpig> SuMo_D: decorating with one thing we want and one we don't.  that'a  mixed message at best
16:50 <@Evilpig> I'm ready to cut that bitch
16:51 <@Evilpig> I've gotta calm down or the drive home will become bumper cars
16:52 <@SuMo_D> so... that bitch being a girl in se2600 in Nashville suggesting you guys implement a code of conduct its that what I've been picking up?
16:53 <@Evilpig> no she's suggesting several changes one of which is adding in a code of conduct
16:53 -!- RangerZ [~mike@c-98-211-46-74.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:53 <@SuMo_D> k
16:53 <@Evilpig> she's off proposing changes and as far as i'm concerned isn't a part of the group she's wnating to change
16:53 -!- RangerZ [~mike@c-98-211-46-74.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
16:53 <@Shadow404> so, no vaginas allowed
16:53 <@Shadow404> problem solved
16:53 <@SuMo_D> was she at PN ?
16:54 <@benthemeek> Sumo: many years ago
16:54 <@Evilpig> she's the chick that jonnyx was puppydogging saturday night
16:54 <@benthemeek> but we dont have a policy regarding what we do to people who are harrassing etc so she thought we needed one
16:54 <@benthemeek> we just have a policy about removing bad officers
16:55 -!- anarchival [~amberadam@unaffiliated/anarchival] has joined #se2600
16:55 <@Dagmar> We don't particularly need a "policy
16:55 <@Evilpig> we don't need a policy for that
16:55 <@benthemeek> Hi amber
16:55 <@Dagmar>  " to know when it's time to beat some ass
16:55 <@benthemeek> and shes here :)
16:55 < anarchival> Greetings and salutations, friends and countrymen.
16:55 <@Evilpig> if you have a problem with harassment handle it
16:55 <@Shadow404> heh, who told on us?
16:55 <@Evilpig> report it.  deal with it.  it isn't out place to outline what is isn't acceptable behavior
16:55 < anarchival> I understand there is a bit of controversy over a draft of some updates to the bylaws.
16:56 <@benthemeek> I said that on channel we were cussing each other out and doing violence to see if we got banned
16:56 <@Shadow404> nothing yet
16:56 <@Shadow404> benthemeek: your a piece of crap
16:56 <@benthemeek> report it to the officers?
16:56  * Shadow404 stabs benthemeek 
16:56 < anarchival> Since I'm the drafter, please let me know your concerns.
16:56  * Shadow404 directs anarchival to the irc log
16:56 <@benthemeek> I mean I think thats the question
16:56  * Dagmar slips a bar of soap into a tube sock
16:56 <@benthemeek> who do we report it to and so on
16:57 <@Dagmar> benthemeek: "an adult"
16:57 <@Shadow404> oh man....i gotta go home and im gonna miss all this live
16:57 <@Evilpig> What are you reporint?  why are you reporting?  why do I give a fuck if you're a fat fuck that won't eat a god damned carrot?
16:57 <@Evilpig> HUH!?
16:57 <@Dagmar> I'm not sure it's the organizations responsibility to require people be capable of socailly-acceptable behaviour.
16:57 <@Dagmar> Society should be taking care fo that.
16:58 <@Evilpig> You;'re opening up a can of bullshit that we have no care to deal with and really ought to be dealt with by themselves.  I fyou have a problem handle it.  if you didnt' liek that answer seek an officer.  If it is an organizational problem we'll handle it.  Right now it isn't an issue and we don't need to be opening the door to such issues
16:58 <@Dagmar> As in, if someone's being a dick, generally that person will be "regulated upon" by people nearby
16:58 < anarchival> Let me ask you guys: how have you dealt with it in the past when someone (like, say, Trevor) has overtly harassed or threatened someone else?
16:58 <@benthemeek> Well in the case of a certain former president bulling a certain member to become an officer was the reason that that particular thing came up
16:58 <@Dagmar> anarchival: If he's been doing that he's been very sneaky about it
16:59 <@Dagmar> anarchival: But just the same, he's kind of on most of our shitlists for other rather similar reasons
16:59 < anarchival> I'm not advocating a PyCon or ADA Code of Conduct. If I were, I would have copied and pasted that language into the by-laws.
16:59 <@Evilpig> We haven't had the issue..  Trevor was an issue to himself.  The fact that he was fucking or trying to fuck every female in the area was an issue
16:59 <@benthemeek> So evilpig's point is we deal with officer misconduct and leave the members to themselves
16:59 <@benthemeek> You still there Amber?
16:59 <@Dagmar> anarchival: You would be amazed at how many obscene acts I can suggest in under 20 seconds, had you done that
17:00 < anarchival> I like to be rude and offensive as much as any other person here; my concern is that we are opening ourselves up to liability issues and potentially condoning truly bad behavior by not having a written policy that everyone is on notice for and a fair way of enforcing it when it happens.
17:00 <@Evilpig> The only conduct we're responsible for is the officers.  period.  anything else if we have to get involved we'll do it.  we don't need policy saying what we define as acceptable
17:00 <@Dagmar> benthemeek: Now that I can get behind.  Someone acting in an official capacity can't be acting like they were raised by *ahem*wolves
17:01 <@Evilpig> If we put it in writing we are condoning any actions not expressly outlined as being bad
17:01 <@Dagmar> Being that I'm not an officer, my hands are free to wrap around the various sensitive appendages of some who also isn't an officer who starts getting excessively handsy with what few women are around
17:01 < anarchival> The "fucking every female in the area" isn't really an issue unless the females feel the behavior is harassment. Which is another reason we need a policy. He's not the only dude in this community who has a problem keeping his dick in his pants; even with Trevor gone that's bound to happen again. If any women attend.
17:01 <@Evilpig> Leave it the fuck out.  We have the no fucking other officers policy because of trevor.
17:01 <@Dagmar> Men who might be the subject of handsiness are encouraged to whack the aggressor with a chair if need be
17:02 < anarchival> I wouldn't be amazed by the capability of your obscenity, Dagmar. I've known you since 1997.
17:02 <@Dagmar> anarchival: Acutally, you'd be astonished at just how little play we collectively get
17:02 <@Dagmar> I mean, it's not withour reason we have this much goddamn free time
17:02 <@benthemeek> lol
17:02 <@Dagmar> If I had a gf who said 'You.  My bedroom.  Friday.  6pm' you shits would never see me at another meeting
17:02 <@Evilpig> I'm outta here.  I've got this shitty weather and traffic to deal with.  If this "discussion" is still going on after I get home I'll get back on.   
17:03  * Evilpig is away:  Bumper Cars!
17:03 <@benthemeek> l hf
17:03 <@benthemeek> gl
17:03 < anarchival> Okay, so we're cool with holding the officers and Board members to a standard of conduct, but want to eliminate the provisions allowing us to kick out member or attendees who act inappropriately?
17:03 <@benthemeek> Well we have banned people in the past
17:03 <@Dagmar> Yes.  This is _reasonable_
17:03 < anarchival> Let's say, for instance, that someone starts a fist fight at PhreakNIC. Is the SOP to call the cops?
17:03 <@benthemeek> there was a discussion earlier on that
17:03 <@Dagmar> anarchival: Depends upon the level of violence
17:04 < anarchival> As much as I appreciate just beating the shit out of anyone who sexually harasses me (or stabbing them, I am excessively fond of knives), I'd prefer a conflict resolution method that does not end in jail time.
17:04 <@Dagmar> If there's some genuine savagery going on, and both parties aren't clearly aware they fucked up large, then it would be appropriate to call the police
17:04 <@Dagmar> ...but largely we're composed of fairly reasonable people.
17:05 <@benthemeek> I think the concern is that we continue to rely on people's good will and intentions and not spell out all the possible stuff that can go wrong. I know that how we feel, i dont know how we are supposed to write that into a document though :/
17:05 < anarchival> I do appreciate not writing by-laws with Trevor in mind; we need by-laws that prohibit truly harmful behavior, but his ghost shouldn't be haunting the management of our organization.
17:05 <@benthemeek> Well let me ask
17:06 <@benthemeek> Does our organization HAVE to have policies about harrassment?
17:06 <@benthemeek> I know nothing of laws
17:06 < anarchival> Lookit, I've seen fist fights break out at my family reunion. It's not a reflection on the group to consider such things might take place. Events attract ne'er do wells sometimes.
17:06 <@Dagmar> There's already laws about harassment.
17:06 <@Dagmar> Even starting down that road for the organization is going to be a massive time-sink.
17:07 < anarchival> I'd like to have a reasonable policy in place to deal with people who aren't worth calling the cops, but who clearly aren't contributing to making the event safe and fun.
17:07 <@Dagmar> ...because we'd also have to very carefully define what the fuck constitutes 'harassment'.
17:07 <@Dagmar> anarchival: See, this is one of the reasons I'd like to see us go back to the old hotel.  They've got some nice stairs people could accidentally fall down.
17:08 <@benthemeek> lol
17:08 < anarchival> We're discussing having some stuff at PhreakNIC for those members who'd like to attend with their kids, for example. In order to do that, we're going to need to put attendees on notice about some minimum standards of conduct above "this is basically a roadhouse."
17:08 <@Dagmar> At the new one, there's only doorknobs to walk into, and they're not even proper doorknobs.  They're those freaky european door handles
17:08 <@Dagmar> anarchival: We'd need to start with making it clear that the kiddies should be kept to kiddie _hours_ and locations.
17:09 < anarchival> Since we clearly state in our mission that we are a non-discriminatory organization, yes, we are liable to create that environment. There are also laws dictating this just as a 501c3, even if it wasn't in the mission.
17:09 <@benthemeek> Dagmar: I'm sure that will be the case
17:09 <@Dagmar> As in, bringing a six-year-old prone to picking up bad habits into a room full of people drinking and swearing at 10pm is astonishingly bad parenting.
17:09 <@Dagmar> ...because that's exactly what will happen.
17:09 <@benthemeek> Are the laws and lawful behavior enough to cover this, without us including it?
17:09 < anarchival> Besides that I think our open and friendly atmosphere is better served by having a stated policy; you'd be surprised how many people get the impression we are just the opposite because we project an "anything goes" mentality.
17:09 <@Dagmar> Asking people to be on their best behaviour during 'business hours' is reasonable
17:09 <@benthemeek> I mean if someone feels harassed they can deal with cops and such and not get us involved?
17:10 < anarchival> What's the old hotel?
17:10 <@benthemeek> hmm that is a fair point
17:10 <@benthemeek> The old hotel was the days in stadium
17:10 <@benthemeek> 9 floors
17:10 <@Dagmar> Well, there's 'anything goes' and then there's the 'you had parents.  Act like it' which is what generally happsn
17:11 <@Dagmar> While people have the option of being complete savages and running around in their underwear, they generally (and very sensibly) opt to *not* do that
17:11 < anarchival> There will be a clearly demarcated kids zone, yes.
17:11 <@benthemeek> So you are also suggesting this clause as a CYA as well as we look god to people who think hackers go around beating each other
17:12 <@Dagmar> ...and lets not forget that at some point, eventually, when I feel like I can throw someone out a window for it if need be, I'm going to try to resurrect the tradition of having strippers around
17:12 < anarchival> The laws are sufficient for definitions, but we at least need to cite the laws, which is what our mission almost does and what a policy certainly would do.
17:12 <@Dagmar> ...and that's going to require some folks be able to BEAHVE.
17:12 <@Dagmar> er BEHAVE
17:13 <@Dagmar> anarchival: There's also the small matter that bringing cops into PN is an action which should never be taken lightly.
17:13 < anarchival> Is that still under renovation? I remember it was mentioned, but not considered workable this year?
17:13 <@benthemeek> Could the clause then say attendees are expected to be lawful or something?
17:13 -!- dc0de [~dc0de@ip68-107-29-232.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
17:13 < anarchival> I don't want to require anyone to deal with the police unless we are talking about an actual crime.
17:13 <@benthemeek> yeah its not near food and its always booked for sporting events
17:13 <@Dagmar> As with *the vast majority* of public meets of _any_ kind not necessarily embroidery-related, the cops could really go berzerk on the lot of us if they were properly incensed by being called out over something that puts them in the role of 'hall monitor'
17:14 -!- dc0de [~dc0de@ip68-107-29-232.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #se2600
17:14 <@benthemeek> We have pulled off not having security for the past 3 years
17:14 <@Dagmar> anarchival: Well, our main problem was that a certain dumbass kind of fouled up our deal with them by generally being a recalcitrant dick about sending someone over there to fix their shit
17:15 < anarchival> It is a CYA. It is PR. It is also a way that we can make people feel more comfortable.
17:15 <@Dagmar> benthemeek: Three years?  When have we had security more elaborate than "some guys who will regulate"?
17:15 <@benthemeek> Well we havent had "goons"
17:16 <@benthemeek> Everybody acts just fine, with the exception of passing out under a table or in the hall and those aren't "goonable" offenses
17:16 < anarchival> You've also had extraordinarily low attendance for the last three years. Correlation is not causation, but...
17:16 <@Dagmar> By what standard does one define 'extraordinarily low'?
17:16 <@benthemeek> You think goons make them feel safer?
17:16 <@benthemeek> Well under 150
17:17 <@benthemeek> as compared to past phreaknics
17:17 <@Dagmar> Driving all the fucking way out to M'boro probably has a fair bit to do with that
17:17 <@oddball> I remember there being a security team in past Phreaknics.
17:17 < anarchival> I'm not crazy about the Goon model. For starters, DEFCON is a notoriously bad environment for harassment. Most of the worst examples come out of there. Also, Trevor is a Goon, which gives me pause.
17:18 <@benthemeek> yeah the whole thing feels icky
17:18 <@Dagmar> When the number of people reaches 'a shitload', 'goon' types are necessary
17:18 < anarchival> Being in Murfreesboro is probably more of a causation than lack of security, yes.
17:18 <@benthemeek> Well the talk is of being a donation con or a kickstarter con. We could see a rather large interest again
17:19 < anarchival> Goons might be useful as traffic control, sure, especially when demands exceed seating, but I'm not convinced they're an adequate response to the problem we're discussing. I think something less cop-like would be better.
17:19 <@benthemeek> So when someone feel harrassed
17:19 <@benthemeek> who do they report it to?
17:19 <@oddball> there was also a fairly major event that happened roughly 3 years ago that caused a major split in the interested population in the area.
17:20 <@oddball> Also... PN doesn't really do shit to advertise.
17:20 <@benthemeek> I assume it would be multiple incidents?
17:20 < anarchival> I would suggest an officer or a Board member.
17:20 <@SuMo_D> ...... also the advertisement could be a little more decipherable... (just saying)
17:20 <@benthemeek> Who then bans said person upon conference?
17:20 < anarchival> We're going to work on the advertising, and also some fundraising so we can put on a really great event.
17:21 < anarchival> To reference a horribly chauvinist movie, the next PhreakNIC is going to be The Revenge of the Nerds: the Hackers Strike Back.
17:21 <@SuMo_D> I had another 5 potential people who wanted to come, but couldn't really figure out what it was about.... so they didn't want to make the drive
17:21 <@benthemeek> Well as a CYA and PR I am okay with it, but i do share the sentiment that we dont want to be anyone's nanny
17:21 <@oddball> As for it being in m'boro as a detractor.  How many people have you met that have said "shit... I have to go all the way out there?  Fuck that?"
17:22 < anarchival> In the by-laws I wrote, the officer or Board member (acting in consultation with at least one other officer or Board member), could effect an immediate ban if the circumstances warrant it, but long-term bans would still have to be effected by the Board.
17:22 -!- daveb [~daveb@host-72-51-153-251.newwavecomm.net] has joined #se2600
17:23 < anarchival> When I say immediate ban, I'm talking about a situation where someone is actually being violent or unsafe, and needs to be thrown from the event.
17:23 <@benthemeek> I am convinced, I doubnt it would ever really need to be used
17:23 < anarchival> Long-term bans would be more like "you're not welcome at 2600 events from this day"
17:23 <@benthemeek> but I guess it could be used
17:24 <@benthemeek> The group has banned people before (there was a discussion on that today)
17:24 <@benthemeek> would not that process also still exist with or without this clause
17:24 <@oddball> anarchival: If you're talking about somone getting tossed from PN, I think that should be at the discretion of the current directors of the con.
17:24 <@benthemeek> ?
17:24 < anarchival> I'm not trying to change the culture of 2600 to the point it becomes an authoritarian place. I'm an anarchist, for Chrissakes. I'm also one of the few feminists you'll meet who enjoys a good dick joke.
17:25 < anarchival> I am trying to protect the organization from liability and make it a more welcoming place to as many people who might want to participate as possible.
17:25 <@NotLarry> aestetix: ping
17:25 <@Dagmar> Yes, when it's come to giving people Das Boot, historically it's always been a case where everyone around could see that it was necessary
17:25 <@Dagmar> Shitting where you sleep is sort of a universal no-no
17:25 <@NotLarry> what?
17:26 <@NotLarry> Dagmar: you could have told me.  That explains so much...
17:26 < anarchival> I'd like to hear more about how this has occurred in the past.
17:26 <@NotLarry> What are we talking about?  I just got here.
17:26 < anarchival> I think it's an emergency valve; I doubt it will have to be used that often, but when we need it we don't want to have to make shit up.
17:26 <@Dagmar> Mr. Short Bus haxoring the phone switch at the Days Inn so that the reservation lines went to him
17:26 <@oddball> Well, I believe one involved handing said asshole over to the cops when they showed up.
17:26 < anarchival> Also, it's better to make the process fair and transparent, but not something the entire organization has to get in an uproar about.
17:26 <@Dagmar> That's a reasonably fun thing, but he went way over the top in collecting people's CC#'s
17:27 < anarchival> Unless y'all think that would be a better way of handling it. Democracy has its uses.
17:27 <@Dagmar> That was where he made it easy for everyone to see that _we didn't need him around_ because we can't fucking do the kind of shit we do if people are subject to real, material harm
17:27 <@NotLarry> ah, I was there that day.  When "the man" came and escorted him away.
17:27 <@Dagmar> Like, having a gun is find and edgy.  Firing shots into walls, on the other hand, is not
17:27 <@Dagmar> s/find/fine/
17:28 <@benthemeek> So you will be there to vote on this paragraph about no harrassment
17:28 <@Dagmar> If anything, _having minor risk factors in play_ keeps us on our toes, and gives us an excuse to work this shit out in public and come to a consensus
17:28 <@benthemeek> What will you vote for?
17:29 <@Dagmar> ...so that everyone winds up explicitly on the same page about what's accepted and what's not.
17:29 <@Dagmar> ...without having to be "instructed"
17:29 <@Dagmar> I will vote for things which are reasonable and productive.
17:29 < anarchival> ...and the language is an on-going discussion.
17:29 <@Dagmar> I will not be voting for things which are stuffy, authoritarian, and/or pathetically fear-laden
17:30 < anarchival> Seriously, that was the first draft of a first draft. I was expecting this to be a serious discussion that we had as a group down the road.
17:30 <@Dagmar> .;..and like I said earlier, declaring 'no harassment' puts us in the position of also having to define 'harassment'.
17:30 <@NotLarry> or, other things.
17:30 <@Dagmar> It does not, you may be surprised to discover, mean _the same thing_ to everybody.
17:30 < anarchival> It doesn't, really. There are laws that define harassment, we just need to say we hold to those standards.
17:31 <@benthemeek> but if its against those laws
17:31 <@NotLarry> If we explicitly say something is unacceptable then we implicetly say the things we don't discuss are acceptable, right?
17:31 <@Dagmar> Case in point, one of the Nashville Enlightened Ingress players got temporarily banned from the game a few weeks ago because the claim of 'harassment' was made
17:31 < anarchival> @NotLarry: Yes.
17:31 <@Dagmar> What he was actually engaged in was haranguing people to stop actively being dumbasses with their links for a bit so he and a few other people could actually put a field all over Nashville.
17:32 <@Dagmar> There is a difference between these two things, and some people don't understand it, because without resorting to very complex legal definitions, that shit's real vague
17:33 <@Dagmar> It doesn't help that the guy has all the subtlety skills of a large car full of drunken goats, which is also on fire
17:33 < anarchival> True; but I think that we as a group could come up with a short list of behaviors that are unacceptable, and hold ourselves to that standard.
17:34 < anarchival> This is why I say I'm not a fan of PyCon or ADA Codes; I think they're too strict on certain things, and the consequences are too dire for some silly nonsense.
17:34 <@Dagmar> Meanwhile, there were other smurfs who were actively searching the game logs and seeking out locations where specific Enlightened players had engaged in *any* activity at all, with the expressed goal being to piss them off as much as possible.
17:34 <@Dagmar> That actually *does* fit the legal definition of harassment, but could also be construed as a 'technique'.
17:34 < anarchival> The general definition of harassment is a law, but it is broadly defined. We should cite it just to CYA. Specific conduct should be stuff that we can easily define among ourselves.
17:34 <@benthemeek> I got it!
17:35 < anarchival> PyCon and ADA have extraordinarily broad definitions of harassment, which go so far as to even censor and silence other women. That's the reason I don't approve of them as a feminist, and I doubt they would fit 2600.
17:35 <@Dagmar> anarchival: Hence why I was saying we'd probably be better off simply declaring that people should behave as if they were raised by loving parents, regarless of their actual upbringing.
17:35 <@benthemeek> "Phreanic members and officers are required to "Be excellent to each other"
17:35 <@benthemeek> s/phreanic/phreaknic
17:35 <@Dagmar> "Behave like decent human beings"
17:36 <@NotLarry> Na, CYA is not mentioning it:)
17:36 <@Dagmar> I suspect we'd be in for more annoyances if we actually used the 'dickwolves from North Sodomia' verbiage I suggested earlier
17:36 <@NotLarry> We cover our ass by being vague.
17:36 <@NotLarry> Wait, that is not the version we are using?
17:36 <@benthemeek> "Be excellent to each other" second line: The first line may be interpreted by the leadership in anyway they se fit
17:37 <@Dagmar> No, because I'm pretty sure we'd have things escalate to having those ADA dipshits showing up with a quickness if we did
17:37 <@NotLarry> +1 for that
17:37 < anarchival> But I wasn't raised by loving parents! My father is an abusive alcoholic sociopathic drug dealer! And I act that way!
17:37 <@Dagmar> anarchival: Then I suggest you follow the lead of someone who was, in fact, raised by caring parents.
17:37 <@benthemeek> Well eveilpig pointed out each change is voted for point by point
17:37 <@NotLarry> Yes
17:38 < anarchival> "Be decent human beings" didn't really work for Noisebridge, but that was more an enforcement issue.
17:38 <@benthemeek> if the membership doesnt like it they vote it down
17:38 <@Dagmar> ...and generally this is the point where *I* cross some of the lines people were mentioning before, with respect to 'violence and threats of violence'.
17:38 <@benthemeek> it wont made the other tweaks we have to make not take affect
17:38 <@benthemeek> (the by-laws do need some TLC)
17:38 <@Dagmar> ...because let's face it, some judicious violence can and does solve a lot of fucking problems at times.
17:39 <@Dagmar> Don't *make* me unable to solicit charitable donations for the Beat-A-Kid foundation
17:39 <@Dagmar> Humanity stands to gain great benefit from this charity!
17:39 < anarchival> The non-harassment policy is actually the least important part of the changes we need to make.
17:40 <@SuMo_D> Noisebridges be decent worked for the group when it was small enough that everyone knew each other and they were all coming from pretty much friends of friends, it broke down generally over time...
17:40 < anarchival> I'm fine tabling it for later if it's something that requires more community discussion (which I think it might)
17:40  * benthemeek googles noisebrige
17:40 <@Dagmar> SuMo_D: Sounded to me like there was a lack of _enforcement_
17:41 < anarchival> The real problem is more that the by-laws place the 501c3 in some completely illegal territory regarding the organization of the Board, the officers, elections, etc., which are far more pressing issues.
17:41 < anarchival> There's no problem on Earth that can't be solved with a baseball bat.
17:41 <@benthemeek> What happened at Noisebridge?
17:41 <@NotLarry> I belive the non-harassment policy is implicit in who we are.  That might be just me.  What is the important part?
17:41 <@Dagmar> Cripes.  Yes let's definitely address annything that makes the 501c3 the possible target of RICO investigations or whatever
17:41 <@NotLarry> Ah
17:42 <@Dagmar> I would like to AVOID being referred to as part of a 'cartel', again.
17:42 < anarchival> Basically Noisebridge required a unanimous vote to enforce the policy; since the assholes always had at least one friend willing to block the vote, the policy was never enforced. Goddamn democracy.
17:42 < anarchival> That's one of the reasons I'd like to see the Board be the ultimate arbiter for such disputes. It doesn't need to be a popularity contest.
17:42 <@Dagmar> Well, there's bitcoin now.
17:42 <@Dagmar> ...and ToR.
17:43 <@NotLarry> what illegal territory?
17:43 <@NotLarry> pics
17:43 <@Dagmar> If someone wants to put on a Timoty C. May hat, we could be the first organization to ever be policed by anonymous digital thuggery for hire.
17:43 <@Dagmar> Yeah, i'm just going to leave that there.
17:43 < anarchival> We're still working this out, but we don't seem to have a Board of Directors, which is required by law.
17:44 <@Dagmar> Is it?
17:44 < anarchival> We do seem to have a loosely-formed Board of Trustees, which is excellent, but they either need to become a Board of Directors or we need to form one.
17:44 <@Dagmar> I thought Dolemite had squared away that we were only required to have like a handful of official bag-holders
17:44 <@SuMo_D> do you guys have an advisory board?
17:44 <@NotLarry> The "Board of Directors" are the watchers who watch the watchers.
17:45 < anarchival> Also, the way members of the Board of Trustees (or Directors?) are currently selected is problematic. I'm not going to go into that right here right now, though.
17:45 <@SuMo_D> if you every go for any grants.... having an advisory board is helpful
17:45 <@Dagmar> ...but who are the watchers who watch the watchers who watch the watchers?
17:45 <@NotLarry> why not, go into that.
17:45 <@Dagmar> SuMo_D: No, that's getting *way* ahead of ourselves.
17:45 <@benthemeek> We shoot non cooperative board members (this means you NotLarry)
17:45 < anarchival> Yep. Members of the Board of Directors should be registered with the Secretary of State. I'm sort of curious who's listed on the charter...
17:45 <@benthemeek> it generally keeps them in line
17:46 <@NotLarry> Ok, so, "Board of Directors" was a poor choice of words then.
17:46 <@Dagmar> The "organization", such that it is, was formed primarily because some people wanted to 'sponsor' PhreakNIC, and it looks nice to have a few of those, even if no one really gives a rats ass, but it's awkward dealing with corporate types when you're 'just a bunch of loons'
17:46 < anarchival> ...and yes, we're looking at pursuing grant funding and sponsorships, etc., so I want the organization to be as squared away as possible in that case.
17:46 <@Dagmar> Who's looking for grant funding, again?
17:46 <@benthemeek> We run phreaknic | they can fire us | we shoot them - checked, balanced
17:47 <@NotLarry> Well, I personally, don't want the President and the Treasurer having an relationship outside of the organization that may influlence the behavior inside the organization.
17:47 < anarchival> Maybe 2600. The decision hasn't been made, but it's a possibility worth pursuing. If we do it though, the organization will need to be a little tidier.
17:48 <@Dagmar> NotLarry: As far as I know, we probably shoudln't have had to explicitly forbid shit like that.  We *probably* shoudl have gone for a Conflict of Interest section in the paperwork
17:48 <@Dagmar> We are not 2600.
17:48 <@NotLarry> Thus we have the board, or whatever we want to call it:)
17:48 <@benthemeek> Actually the by-laws say they can i think as long as its "discolosed"
17:48 <@benthemeek> diclosed*
17:48 <@NotLarry> +1
17:48 < anarchival> I appreciate the historical reason for disallowing sexual relationships between officers, but frankly it's none of any of your goddamn business who is sleeping with who.
17:49 <@Dagmar> We are PhreakNIC.  2600 is Emmanuel's gig, and we respect him deeply for it
17:49 <@NotLarry> right.  only acted upon if the watchers feel it is hurting the con was my understanding.
17:49 <@Dagmar> If Emmmanuel's doing something with possible grant money, good for him, we'll cheer him on, but it doesn't mean we have to suddenly put on ties and shit.
17:49 < anarchival> If there appears to be a conflict of interest that is harming the organization, then that should be brought to the attention of the Board and the Board can evaluate it and take corrective action if necessary.
17:50 <@benthemeek> Well I think that is what was put in place
17:50 <@benthemeek> I mean the goal was that anyway
17:50 < anarchival> But seriously. You guys can't with a straight face say you're hands-off on harassment and then instruct the officers who they may or may not fuck. That's just ridiculous.
17:50 <@Dagmar> anarchival: We could probably stand to just forbid conflicts of interest altogether
17:50 <@benthemeek> I will start listing the board members and officers on every minutes
17:50 <@NotLarry> anarchival: You are much better at this then I am.
17:50 <@Dagmar> It would eliminate further calumny
17:51 < anarchival> Excuse me, Nashville 2600/PhreakNIC.
17:51 <@Dagmar> Like, if *all* the members were fucking each other, there'd be no one to evaluate whether or not anyone's conflict of interest was a problem or not
17:51 < anarchival> I realize 2600 is another organization entirely.
17:51 <@NotLarry> I am saying that before this board, there was no oversite in place and if we thought it was inapropriate there was nothing we could do.
17:51 <@Dagmar> anarchival: There's also the small matter of the phraseology I used earlier.  "Bag holder".
17:51 <@Dagmar> This is serious shit right here.
17:51 < anarchival> No one is going to ask you to wear a tie, Dagmar. Unless it's the kind you like.
17:51 <@Dagmar> We are *constantly* traipsing around in grey-and-darker areas of the law.
17:51 <@oddball> anarchival: It sounds like you're wanting to completely rewrite the bylaws, not just amend them.
17:52 < anarchival> Yes, forbidding conflicts of interest is perfectly adequate.
17:52 <@Catonic> You need a friend who is a lawyer and likes to talk.
17:52 <@benthemeek> oddball: the language of the conflict of interests and board section are the issues i think
17:52 < anarchival> I went to law school, so I better be better at this. ;)
17:52 <@NotLarry> Having a group of old white men overseeing the organization seems fine to me:)
17:52 <@Dagmar> You would be fucking AMAZED at how quickly informal, unofficial FELONY CRIMES which harm no one at all and make no sound, could result in serious charges and shit being dropped on someone's head, just because they're "in charge" or "officers" of the 501(c)3.
17:53 <@Catonic> "indemnity"
17:53 <@Dagmar> That's always been a pretty fucking major concern.
17:53 <@Dagmar> "indemnity" requires lawyers who cost a lot of money.
17:53 <@Dagmar> ...and we can't really trust the fucking federal government if someone gets a bug up their ass, now can we?
17:54 < anarchival> We could write a standard indemnity clause, most corporations have them to protect from the unwayward actions of Board members.
17:54 <@Dagmar> Hence the more formal we get, the more _risk_ is involved for the people left holding the bag.
17:54 <@benthemeek> All of this needs to be in the by-laws?
17:54 <@oddball> benthemeek: reading the conversation, it looks like the addition of a lot of rules as to how Phreaknic is run as well.
17:54 <@Dagmar> anarchival: This isn't about indemnifying board members against each other.  It's about indemnifying everyone from everyone else, which is needed.
17:54 < anarchival> It's too late to not be a 501c3; the horse is out of the barn on that one. I'd like to see us maintain its good standing, is all.
17:54 <@benthemeek> I dont know what is or is not supposed to be included and like the K.I.S.S method
17:54 <@Dagmar> There's rather serious laws in place to address 'gangs', which we could also be construed as.
17:55 <@NotLarry> Ok, so we should not call them "directors"
17:55 <@Dagmar> anarchival: We need to be the lightest form of 501(c)3 possible, basically
17:55 <@Catonic> ubermensch
17:55 <@benthemeek> oddball: I don't think so, its more of a CYA if the worst happens.
17:55 <@benthemeek> I dont think the running of the even will change
17:55 < anarchival> That's not true, Dagmar. Half-assed organizations are the ones law enforcement take down, because they're low-hanging fruit. There's a reason weev is in prison and most white-collar criminals are not.
17:56 <@Catonic> because he's a dumbass?
17:56 <@Dagmar> ...and when we start incorporating rules about _personal behaviour_ things start crossing lines which increase the degree to which someone could argue that the organization is responsible for what some fuckup did with a phone switch.
17:56 <@oddball> benthemeek: I get... nervous... when someone is wanting to make a lot of changes at once.
17:56 <@Dagmar> No, weev wound up in prison because he was an *asshole*.
17:56 <@Dagmar> Don't even try to misuse that one
17:57 <@Dagmar> It looks like he'll be getting out soon because now that people's panties have had time to unbunch, saner legal assessments involving concepts like parity and actual danger are coming back into play
17:57 <@benthemeek> oddball: Thats fair. We have some TLC that will fix a few problems (they will be read at the next few meetings) and then we have some stuff like this for how the organization is supposed to managed/run/kept accountable
17:57 <@NotLarry> what are we doing as an organization that is illegal?
17:57 < anarchival> Things we need in the by-laws: a Board of Directors (and a Board of Trustees, if we want those two things separate), with a better definition of how one becomes a Board member. An indemnification clause. Maybe an anti-harassment policy. Clarification on officer elections (which I think we've already sorted out, that part wasn't hard).
17:57 <@benthemeek> That may not be a something we do for now but it should be talked about
17:57 <@Dagmar> Poorly organized groups that are _up to shit_ as a group get into trouble
17:57 <@Dagmar> We, as a group, are not particularly _up to shit_
17:58 <@NotLarry> what is the difference between the board of directors and the officers?
17:58 <@NotLarry> ignoring the current defenition
17:58 < anarchival> I understand why making a lot of changes at once feels suspicious; that's not what we're trying to do.
17:58 <@benthemeek> anarchival: You are saying those are legal requirements we need to have to be a 501c ?
17:58 <@NotLarry> So change "board of directors" to "trustees"
17:59 -!- SuMo_D [~sumo_D@108-193-45-205.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
17:59 < anarchival> We're trying to clarify a couple major points in the by-laws that are currently in a legal mess.
17:59 <@benthemeek> NotLarry: I did on that second revision)
17:59 < anarchival> The draft that I came up with was a first draft, submitted to the officers purely for the purposes of discussion
17:59 < anarchival> I didn't intend for it to even be the draft that got proposed for ratification, honestly.
17:59 <@benthemeek> I included the board , and then it came here :)
18:00 < anarchival> But I'm glad the group is willing to hash it out together, that's of the good.
18:00 <@NotLarry> Wait, what leagal mess?
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18:01 < anarchival> The Board of Directors is officially in charge of the 501c3. They technically delegate authority to run the organization to officers.
18:01 < anarchival> Traditionally, a Board is formed with the Charter when particular organizations are named, and thereafter the Board nominates and elects new Board members.
18:01 <@NotLarry> Ok, do we have to have a BOD to be a 501c3?
18:01 < anarchival> Officers can either be appointed by the Board, or elected by the membership as we do it.
18:01 <@NotLarry> Because the membership here delegates autthority to the officers
18:02 <@NotLarry> and our current board are just the "adults"
18:02 < anarchival> We have to have a BOD as a 501c3, yes. We open ourselves up to forced dissolution by not having one.
18:02 <@NotLarry> Who would force that?
18:02 < anarchival> This organization has enough enemies or simply people who might not like it that I don't want to give them the opportunity through our own mis-management.
18:03 < anarchival> *organizers, or Board members, are named
18:03 <@NotLarry> Wait, who is this enemie you speak of?
18:03 <@benthemeek> lol
18:03 < anarchival> The Secretary of State and/or the IRS.
18:04 <@NotLarry> the Secretary of Stat and the IRS are our enemies?
18:04 < anarchival> We do appear to have a functioning Board of Trustees, but they do not appear to act as a Board of Directors.
18:04 <@NotLarry> Oh, no, you were answering my previous question right?
18:04 <@Dagmar> COFFEE TIME
18:04 < anarchival> Yes, that's who would dissolve us.
18:05 <@benthemeek> anarchival: So to be compliant with a 501c im assuming our by-laws will have to become quite a bit longer :(?
18:05 < anarchival> Coffee. Psht. I'm sipping bourbon and Coke.
18:05 <@Dagmar> ...and of COURSE the IRS is our enemy!  They want all our munnies for the federals!
18:05 <@Evilpig> You say a board od directors is running it, I say those are teh officers.  
18:05 <@NotLarry> Right, we are not Directors as you are looking at it, they are intended to be the adults who can say "stop that, someone is going to get their eye poked out" so to speak.
18:05 < anarchival> Not necessarily longer. I mean, the version I wrote is four pages long and that's with quite a bit of language on an harassment provision we're probably going to leave out for the time being.
18:05 <@Dagmar> Find and bring the legal requirements you think we're missing to the next meeting and we'll hammer it out
18:05 <@Evilpig> You don't have to have a board of directors.  You have to have a ruling body, cite the law to state otherwise
18:06 <@NotLarry> +1 Dagmar
18:06 <@Dagmar> In this case we need to have some shit we can point at should various federal authorities come to us with pointing fingers and disapproving stares
18:06 <@Evilpig> There will not be any provision stipulating harassment or anything like that as long as I am involved.   I will guarantee this
18:06 <@Dagmar> ...which means we need to know specifically what things we have to enforce, rather than just piling on layer after layer of bureaucracy
18:07 <@Evilpig> The second we define what we won't tolerate anything else and everything else is acceptable.  You cannot ever draft ANYTHING that will cover everythign you don't like
18:07 <@NotLarry> Ok, so we have a con every year where we try to make sure no one feels excluded.  Where the strange and wonderful feel welcome, and we have a loose organization of leaders to take care of the messy stuff.  Am I right so far?
18:07 <@Dagmar> Fuck that
18:07 <@Dagmar> There are people who should feel excluded.
18:07 <@Evilpig> If you want some type of catch all you can put a phrase like if you don't like something take it up with an officer or the oversight board.
18:08 <@Dagmar> Chlid molesters.  LIfetime politicians.  Religious zealots.
18:08 <@Dagmar> Amiga users.
18:08 <@Evilpig> If you want to discuss banning someone, then any officer or oversight person can ban, but it has to be agreed upon by more than one person.
18:08 <@NotLarry> Dagmar: elleged...
18:09 <@Dagmar> There are no "alleged" Amiga users.
18:09 <@Dagmar> THey're all guilty as fuck,
18:09 <@NotLarry> yeah, damn, you are right again.
18:09 <@Dagmar> definitely coffee time noww
18:09 < anarchival> Re: the requirements of the Board, can those of you currently serving as either a corporate-level Director or Trustee meet with the officers in the near future to hash this out?
18:09 <@Evilpig> The requirements are already in place
18:09 <@Evilpig> as set forth long ago
18:10 < anarchival> Because the reason this discussion got started was, the current officers were informed that there wasn't a Board of any kind, and we were trying to fix that in order to bring the 501c3 into compliance.
18:10 <@benthemeek> anarchival: The only local people on the board are NotLarry and John Eldrige
18:10 <@Evilpig> The current officers didn't know what they were talking about
18:10 <@Evilpig> and if you mean the current president.  he'd know more if he cared to actually get involved
18:10 <@SuMo_D> hey... this is really all your internal stuff.... so I don't really want to get too into it... but you guys really need to make sure your treasurer is on point if you are a 501c3 - make sure that you are accounting for all your money and items owned by the group... that's where a lot of 501c3s can get tripped up.
18:10 < anarchival> Ah, I see. We'll definitely defer that conversation until later, then.
18:10 <@oddball> anarchival: By who?  It's in our bylaws.
18:10 <@SuMo_D> also I'd double check but c3 usually means you have to have an outward focus... and educational component
18:10 <@Evilpig> Our treasurer has been, but he'd like a break and so we have to get someone else in and up to speed
18:11 <@NotLarry> SuMo_D: I thought you were part of our group.
18:11 <@SuMo_D> NotLarry I just came to phreaknic
18:11 <@SuMo_D> I live in SC
18:11 <@Evilpig> I harassed SuMo_D at phreaknic
18:11 <@Evilpig> I'm gonna do it again later
18:11 <@SuMo_D> I helped Wilpig clean up after the con
18:11 < anarchival> Yeah, Tilghman has asked me to take over as Treasurer. We'll see if that happens.
18:11 <@NotLarry> SuMo_D: You didn't like us?  We think you should be here.
18:11 <@oddball> I will admit that I didn't know who the board was, but I knew that there was one.
18:12 < anarchival> Our mission has an educational and service component. The 501c3 is perfectly valid in that respect.
18:12 <@benthemeek> (same)
18:12 <@SuMo_D> lol NotLarry if cancer wasn't an asshole... I'd be a lot of other places
18:12 <@NotLarry> SuMo_D: I started being involved from Alabama 15 years ago or so.
18:12 < anarchival> We also have strong financials, historically, so that reporting is spit-spot.
18:12 <@Evilpig> nobody needed to know who was on the board.  they haven't been needed.  god only help us if it ever comes to a point where the board is needed
18:12 <@Corydon76-work> anarchival: SuMo_D is from out of state, so being more involved isn't really practical
18:13 <@Evilpig> Corydon76-work: i'm out of state now too.  :P
18:13 < anarchival> The Board has some administrative responsibility beyond merely putting out fires, but like I said, that's a discussion for another time.
18:13 <@Evilpig> but I am gonna be involved.
18:13 <@Corydon76-work> Ashville might be spelled close to Nashville, but geographically, it isn't
18:13 < anarchival> I've got to go you guys. We'll chat some more later.
18:13 <@SuMo_D> NotLarry if I'm up to it next year, I'll bring some stuff to the con next year, maybe could help with some of the kids stuff... its just so far away (time wise) can't do any hard commitments
18:13 <@oddball> Evilpig: I disagree that the list of folks that's on the board isn't needed to be broadcast, but I agree with the rest of that statement.
18:13 <@Evilpig> oddball: it was broadcast when it was first setup
18:13 <@Evilpig> it hasn't changed.  technically the oversight board is just eldridge and dolemite
18:14 <@Evilpig> For all intents and purposes I should be on it it was just never brought up at a meeting last year
18:14 <@benthemeek> Well this discussion is just getting started, and shouldnt affect having a great phreaknic. Its more a matter of just making sure things are ship shape
18:14 <@Evilpig> also I just got more cards from cards against humanity
18:15 <@benthemeek> Evilpig: I saw that, but didnt understand the picture
18:15 <@Evilpig> I mean just now
18:15 <@Evilpig> not yesterday
18:15 <@SuMo_D> I'm good at grand writing and putting together projects and such... and yeah, I like you guys... any way I can help from here you know I will. I'm sure Shug would say the same too
18:15 <@Evilpig> 5 more cards and another big ass envelope
18:15 <@NotLarry> SuMo_D: Tell you what, I'll come down your your neck of the woods and play sometime.  I like your work there.
18:15  * Evilpig hands NotLarry a drink to take to SuMo_D 
18:15 <@Evilpig> the big envelope is a newspaper
18:16 <@SuMo_D> Maker Faire January 18th or our Expo on April 27th or Shug's con in June... all welcome to all of you!
18:16 <@Evilpig> with diesel sweeties on it.  wtf
18:16 <@Corydon76-work> Y'know, the juvenile in me wants to quote NotLarry as saying "I'll come down your neck"
18:16 <@NotLarry> Evilpig: That drink is not large enough.  It will never last the trip.  I think we will need a bottle of "Makers."
18:16 <@benthemeek> Sumo were you the one with the backback who was vaping at the con?
18:16 <@SuMo_D> NotLarry we always love another person to help us explain what a raspi is to those who have yet to be enlightened ;)
18:17 <@SuMo_D> benthemeek no
18:17 <@oddball> SuMo_D: I'd think about coming down for the con in June, except... uh... I'm helping run a con here in June. :p
18:17 <@SuMo_D> I was was the one with the soldering iron, and EL wire on my black hat playing with the light board
18:17 <@SuMo_D> oddball that does throw a kink in things
18:18 <@Evilpig> oh crap!  I threw away the other parts of the puzzle.  
18:18 <@NotLarry> Speaking of, anyone got a personal dvd player that is no longer used/needed?  I want a small (5"-7")screen with video interface for setting up my pi.
18:18 <@Evilpig> there is a note in this one that says there is a puzzle spread out over the 12 days
18:18 <@NotLarry> Corydon76-work: I'll look for that quote online, you know I'd use it.
18:19 <@Evilpig> and this is the first piece:  GR QRW WKURZ DZDB DQDWKLQJ VHQG BRX
18:19 <@benthemeek> NotLarry: I have one
18:19 <@benthemeek> its pretty old though
18:19 <@benthemeek> one of those little cyber-dvd units for the car?
18:19 <@NotLarry> yup, that is what I am looking for.
18:19 <@SuMo_D> Shug just got put in charge of the Asheville Geek Out's Technology track... so if you guys know of anybody... please send them along, I can put them in touch
18:20 <@benthemeek> I will see if I can locate it
18:20 <@NotLarry> cool beans
18:20 <@benthemeek> Probaly wont be before our next meeting thoug
18:20 <@benthemeek> If its where I think it is
18:20 <@NotLarry> no worries
18:21 <@NotLarry> Anyone remember botlarry?  I had a vga-rca converter in that box with a camcorder eyepiece for a monitor
18:22 <@NotLarry> Can't belive I'm expanding my linux partition.  I might actually use it.
18:22 <@NotLarry> Got windows down to just playing league with.
18:24 <@benthemeek> NotLarry: Did you ever locate more RAM for that server?
18:24 <@benthemeek> What kind did you need again?
18:24 <@Evilpig> alright.  i've collected the five envelopes from cards against humanity and so far there is no code on them other than that piece is just pasted.  the artwork on the envelopes is the song the 12 days of christmas
18:25 <@benthemeek> I forgot I have to get home to watch the kids. I will catch up on this tomorrow
18:25 <@Evilpig> remember benthemeek, only you can beat your children
18:25 <@Evilpig> beat them often, beat them well.
18:31 <@NotLarry> benthemeek: no, did not.  I currently have a laptop with an i5 that I am setting up.  I have the r00tw4rz.org hosted
18:33 -!- x86Daddy [~x86Daddy@32.151.157.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
18:36 <@Corydon76-work> Anybody see that Litecoin's value seems to be crashing?
18:36 <@Evilpig> nope.
18:36 <@Corydon76-work> It was around $30 a week ago, and it's now down to $21
18:51 < Warcop> most coin values dropped among rumors about China blocking currency exchange with cryptocurrencies
19:02 -!- Catonic [~catonic@adsl-98-83-45-112.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
19:16 < Warcop> i gearing up for primecoin
19:33 <@Evilpig> lol.  and as per usual the person that supposed to be in charge now is citing another reason why he isn't involved.  I swear
19:55 < aestetix> NotLarry: pong
19:56 < aestetix> what up nilla
19:56 <@Evilpig> aestetix: where the hell were you 3 hours ago?
19:59  * Evilpig demands aestetix account for his whereabouts
20:00 <@NotLarry> aestetix: needed you earlier
20:01 < aestetix> what did you need me for
20:01 <@Evilpig> http://se2600.org/ircstats/day.html
20:01 < GateKeeper> Title: #se2600 @ Freenode stats by Evilpig (at se2600.org)
20:02 <@Evilpig> see that spike at 5
20:02 <@Evilpig> that's where you were wanted
20:02 < aestetix> uh oh
20:02 < aestetix> what did I do
20:02 <@NotLarry> You and ware, strangly.
20:02 <@NotLarry> And neither of you responded.  I feel the love.
20:03 < aestetix> .... ware?
20:03 <@NotLarry> yes, ware.
20:03 < aestetix> Oh jesus someone cited Noisebridge for somethign?
20:04 <@NotLarry> yes
20:04 <@NotLarry> that too
20:04 <@NotLarry> Well, 3 minutes to see if I have hosed my linux install.
20:05 <@NotLarry> Dagmar: I think mozilla broke the shit I talked to you about earlier.
20:08 < aestetix> ok read some of the backlog
20:09 < aestetix> anarchival: how much were you involved in noisebridge?
20:09 <@NotLarry> I think anarchival bailed for the night.
20:09 < aestetix> oh
20:09 <@NotLarry> the discussion ended with this not being the time to discuss it, I think
20:09 < aestetix> because I can clear up any questions people have about it. And say that the original NB members have basically abandoned it as a semi-lost cause.
20:10 < aestetix> And the fact that I will not enter noisebridge anymore due to the horrendous policy they have
20:11 <@NotLarry> you have mentioned that policy before
20:11 <@NotLarry> But I don't know what it is:)
20:11 < aestetix> yes, because two of the people who pushed it through are heavily involved in the Ada Iniative
20:12 <@NotLarry> oh.
20:12 < aestetix> And regarding membership agreement, what actualy happens is some annoying prick keeps harping on something for so long that anyone with sense gets fed up and walks away, at which point the idiot pushes through a consensus of "4" or however many people happen to still be around
20:12 < aestetix> er, "consensus" should have been in quotes
20:13 -!- anarchival [~amberadam@unaffiliated/anarchival] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:13 <@Evilpig> kinda like we use "aestetix" in quotes?  ;)
20:13 <@Evilpig> lol
20:13 < aestetix> har har
20:13 <@Evilpig> what a perfect time to timeout.  hahaha
20:14 < aestetix> Also, people keep calling things a "safe space" when it's actually "a space where nobody can mention anything that makes anyone even remotely uncomfortable"
20:14 <@Evilpig> I have a link for that now
20:14 < aestetix> heh
20:14 < aestetix> So basically, fuck anything the Ada Initiative puts out. At least, until they release their financials.
20:14 <@NotLarry> I try to use rdp if I'm going to be remotely uncomfortable.
20:15 < aestetix> Because at the moment I'm pretty sure the org simply causes outrage to roll up donations and pay Valerie's rent.
20:15 <@NotLarry> yes, it boots...
20:16 < aestetix> but yea
20:16 <@Evilpig> aestetix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XQtSW7ix0A
20:16 < GateKeeper> Title: Thats Family Christmas - The Doubleclicks - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
20:16 < aestetix> I'm more than happy to have a chat with anyone who defends the Noisebridge policies :)
20:19 < aestetix> hahahaha
20:23 <@Evilpig> that song sums it up for you nicely right?
20:24 -!- notlarry_ [~notlarry@129.59.115.4] has joined #se2600
20:25 -!- notlarry_ [~notlarry@129.59.115.4] has quit [Client Quit]
20:36 <@Evilpig> yeah it's time to rebuild this pc I think
20:43 -!- Dickie [~Dickie@unaffiliated/dickie] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:48 <@SuMo_D> aestetix it wasn't so much a defense of Noisebridge policies as much as it was... how they weren't really able to enforce them
20:48  * Evilpig offers SuMo_D a drink
20:48 <@SuMo_D> lol
20:48 <@SuMo_D> you and your drinks man...
20:49 <@Evilpig> you'll drink and you'll be happy.
20:49 <@Evilpig> at least you'll convince yourself of that later
20:49 <@Evilpig> did you decide on a headshot or no
20:49 <@SuMo_D> you're making this an unsafe space Evilpig
20:49 <@Evilpig> i'm trying my best to make it unsafe
20:49 <@SuMo_D> oh did you ask me for one? - it must have gotten lost in there somewhere
20:50 <@SuMo_D> there was a lot of activity earlier
20:50 <@Evilpig> yeah back when I told you about you being pink now
20:50 <@SuMo_D> I have one, where do you want me to send it
20:50 <@Evilpig> cause I finally got around to updating the nicks list
20:50 <@SuMo_D> blarg pink
20:50 <@Evilpig> wilpig@wilpig.org
20:50 <@Evilpig> i'll chop it down and add it to the stash so it'll be in the next run
20:50 -!- Dickie [~Dickie@unaffiliated/dickie] has joined #se2600
20:51 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Dickie] by ChanServ
20:51 <@Evilpig> no dickie!  bad dickie!
20:51 <@Dickie> Sorry
20:51 <@Evilpig> liar dickie!
20:51 <@Dickie> Sorry
20:51 <@Dickie> Lied about that, too
20:52 <@Dickie> But I'll be honest about one thing
20:52 <@Dickie> YOU UGLY
20:52  * Evilpig cries
20:52 <@Dickie> Your anguish sustains me
20:52 <@Evilpig> Dickie is not conforming to the rules set forth to make this a positive uplifting space that makes everyone happy and love themself.  I want him banned now!
20:54 <@Evilpig> how the hell do I not have a dickie picture on the stats page either?  there are a million pictures of you running around
20:55 <@SuMo_D> I sent you two, one I use as my standard online face pic... but doesn't really look like me anymore, and the other is from Phreaknic but, you can't really tell who I am... you choose
20:55 <@Evilpig> I got ya.  
20:56 <@SuMo_D> I'm surprised nobody sent you the picture of me almost dying from the NSA unhackable phone.... I'm still interested to see where those photos ended up
20:56 <@SuMo_D> I'd have thought you'd put that one up and then be like hahahaha! Have another drink
21:06 <@Evilpig> that scaled bad but you're there
21:08 <@SuMo_D> k
21:08 <@SuMo_D> which did you use?
21:08 -!- Catonic [~catonic@adsl-98-83-42-130.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #se2600
21:08 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Catonic] by ChanServ
21:08 <@Evilpig> sec.  trying again
21:09 <@SuMo_D> do you want me to try to find a better quality one?
21:09 <@Evilpig> http://se2600.org/ircstats/day.html
21:09 < GateKeeper> Title: #se2600 @ Freenode stats by Evilpig (at se2600.org)
21:10 <@SuMo_D> cool
21:12 <@Evilpig> guess I better crawl into bed
21:12 <@SuMo_D> how do you not have a pic of Rangerz?
21:12 <@Evilpig> that's another good question.  cause I have his picture right here
21:14 <@SuMo_D> I miss my red hair...
21:14 <@SuMo_D> too much work... and too many chemicals...
21:14 <@SuMo_D> but it was purity
21:14 <@SuMo_D> purty
21:15 <@SuMo_D> damn spell corrector
21:17 <@Evilpig> okay rangerz added in
21:18 <@Evilpig> just gotta sync it over
21:18 <@Evilpig> and I know I have one of benthemeek too.  damnit
21:23 < RangerZ> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-longhorn-windows-vista-steve-ballmer-mistake,25401.html
21:23 < GateKeeper> Title: Steve Ballmer Says Windows Vista Was His Biggest Mistake (at www.tomshardware.com)
21:24 <@Evilpig> and the first step in solving a problem is admitting to it
21:25 < RangerZ> win8's biggest problem is vista's legacy AND no start menu
21:25 <@Evilpig> no shit there
21:25 <@Evilpig> which they partially admitted with 8.1
21:25 < RangerZ> win8 = content consumption , not production
21:26 <@Evilpig> I had to help someone troubleshoot an 8 machine the other day.  fuck me.  took forever to find the shit I was looking for
21:26 <@Evilpig> click start. oh... fuck.  umm.  right click my computer, oh sweet here's control panel
21:26 <@Evilpig> fuck.  need a console.  click sta... fuck.  right click, task manager, run cmd.
21:27 <@SuMo_D> Ok.. R = V/I right.... so if I have a 3v max LED I'm trying to power through a setup that has a 5v 3amp power supply... the magic number of the resistor is.........
21:28  * Evilpig consults the google
21:28 <@Evilpig> 4
21:28 <@SuMo_D> you sure 4?
21:28 <@Evilpig>  no? yes?  cheese!
21:29 <@SuMo_D> you trying to killeeee meeeee
21:29 <@Evilpig> http://www.rapidtables.com/electric/ohms-law.htm
21:29  * SuMo_D is allergic to cheese
21:29 < GateKeeper> Title: Ohm's Law (at www.rapidtables.com)
21:29 <@Evilpig> it has a calculator
21:29 < RangerZ> no? yes?  cheese!
21:29 <@SuMo_D> oh shiznet you are amaze balls
21:29 <@NotLarry> oh yes, cheese!
21:30 <@SuMo_D> yea!!! it was about what I thought it was
21:30 <@Evilpig> here.  now drink this
21:30  * Evilpig hands SuMo_D a drink
21:30 <@SuMo_D> I'm getting  a little more confident in my skillz..... but still like to double check things
21:31  * SuMo_D looks at the drink... it appears to have cheese in it
21:31 <@Evilpig> you'd get mouth to mouth
21:31 <@Evilpig> don't know what you're complaining about
21:31  * SuMo_D stabs Evilpig with her eli pen
21:32 <@SuMo_D> epi
21:32 <@Evilpig> notlarry, i'm gonna watch that movie when I goto sleep tonight.  pretty sure that's nsfw too
21:32 < RangerZ> SuMo_D: do you want some potatoes au gratin
21:32 < RangerZ> ?
21:33 <@SuMo_D> if its made with soy cheese
21:33 < RangerZ> .... sure....
21:33 <@Evilpig> that isnt' cheese
21:33 <@Evilpig> btw I work with a guy now that refuses to eat any vegetables.  weird people
21:34 <@SuMo_D> yeah... that sounds... healthy?
21:34 <@Evilpig> I was amazed at the lengths he'll go to pick them out of stuff
21:34 <@Evilpig> watching him pick carrots and celery out of chicken noodle soup I about lost my shit laughing so hard
21:35 < RangerZ> lol
21:35 <@SuMo_D> lol
21:35 <@Evilpig> even better was the moment my other coworker and myself saw him down a carrot and then we both pointed it out.
21:36 <@SuMo_D> yeah... well... sometimes your body rejects shit... mine is so weird post stem cell transplant, and it sometimes hates things more than others... even though they taste good (like veggies yum!!) sometimes... it'll just cause more pain and spas attacks
21:36 <@SuMo_D> lol
21:36 <@SuMo_D> did he spaz then?
21:36 < RangerZ> SuMo_D: how does that make you ANY different than every girl I ever dated?
21:36 < RangerZ> all females are weird Q.E.D.
21:37 < RangerZ> lol
21:37 <@SuMo_D> QED?
21:37 < RangerZ> latin for "i have proven what I set out to prove" roughly
21:37 < RangerZ> used in math a lot
21:37 <@Evilpig> RangerZ: she has the sense not to date you?  ;)
21:38 < RangerZ> come on... if we had kids... the would be super geeks and take over... that would be too dangerous
21:38 <@SuMo_D> so.... other women you've dated also have issues with food that can disable them for days at a time.... cause they ate some hummus ?
21:38 <@Evilpig> oh god!  run!  he's trying to mate!  
21:38 <@SuMo_D> and yeah... can't have kids
21:38  * Evilpig runs
21:39 <@Evilpig> "Legit Reviews Recommended Award Winner" http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131989
21:39 <@Evilpig> what's wrong with this?
21:40 < RangerZ> the fact that its an intel board?
21:40 < RangerZ> lol
21:40 <@SuMo_D> its from Asus?
21:41 <@Evilpig> i'm looking to get an i7
21:41 <@Evilpig> they do run cooler
21:41 < RangerZ> nah asus is fine now that they decided to back away from the "we're not going to have bleeding edge.... we're going to have blood dripping off the end of the knife....edge tech in our boards"
21:42 < RangerZ> used to have driver issues with their board in XP, etc
21:42 <@Evilpig> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132053
21:42 <@Evilpig> bleeding edgel ike that?
21:42 < RangerZ> thats just "over kill for people who don't know better"
21:42 <@SuMo_D> ok... going to try to see if this resistor business works... pray things don't catch on fire
21:43 < RangerZ> worst case... explosion
21:43 <@Evilpig> youknow we're praying for fire because that is much funnier
21:43 < RangerZ> not ..."fire"
21:44 <@Evilpig> i like how this one looks.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132038
21:44 <@Evilpig> curious if it can actually keep the northbridge, etc cooler with that thing on it
21:44 <@Evilpig> and looking at it again the nb is open to the air.
21:46 < RangerZ> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130681 i'd probably look at this first, but i've had a lot of luck with MSI lately
21:46 < RangerZ> but I honestly don't know much about the new intel stuff
21:46 < RangerZ> i'm going to wait on an upgrade for a while
21:46 <@Evilpig> I was looking at one of those cause I tradionally buy msi
21:47 < RangerZ> plus...8 ram slots
21:47 < RangerZ> 'wtf' lol
21:47 <@Evilpig> I am liking that newegg put the memory compatibility chart from asus directly on this page though.  
21:49 <@Evilpig> wtf?! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231688&Tpk=F3-3000C12Q-16GTXDG
21:50 < RangerZ> yeah i've seen that
21:53 <@Evilpig> the 32GB model of that same ram... double the ram.. $200 less.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231682
22:10 <@Dagmar> There was another RAM manufacturer accident recently
22:11 <@Dagmar> It'll probably be another 3 months before all the major players are back up to full production again.
22:13 <@Dagmar> ...also you're talking about people dealing in the "ethusiast" space
22:13 <@Dagmar> er "enthusiast"
22:18 < aestetix> SuMo_D: I applied to that thing, btw
22:19 < aestetix> SuMo_D: they weren't able to enforce them because nobody had a clue how to.
22:19 < aestetix> re: noisebridge policies
22:19 < aestetix> I've done a lot of de-escalation training, including ranger training.
22:20 < aestetix> Nobody at noisebridge was able to give me a straight answer when I asked how mediation worked.
22:20 < aestetix> It was kind of offensive to see how poorly they handled it.
22:27 <@Dagmar> I'm not trying to insult people, but some problems take a level-headed adult to handle
22:27 < aestetix> Dagmar: agreed
22:27 <@Dagmar> The phrase about clearer heads prevailing wouldn't exist if there weren't times where the lack of one meant failure
22:28 < aestetix> Which is also why mediators need to be neutral third parties
22:28 <@Dagmar> It helps remarkably
22:28 <@Dagmar> People have to struggle to be reasonable when there's a personal, emotional stake in the outcome
22:28 <@Dagmar> "Fair" is not always easy to work out
22:29 <@Dagmar> LOL
22:29 <@Dagmar> http://money.cnn.com/gallery/technology/2013/12/17/bitcoin-mine/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
22:29 < GateKeeper> Title: Mining (monetary style) - Inside Hong Kong's biggest Bitcoin mine - CNNMoney (at money.cnn.com)
22:29 <@Dagmar> This article couldn't be hitting at a more embarrassing time for CNN
22:30 <@Dagmar> ...because now it's in question whether or not that guy will be allowed to continue to operate there.
22:30 < aestetix> Dagmar: this is one of the reasons we always need to be sober when working Dancesafe
22:30 <@Dagmar> ...although his rig is *FUCKING AMAZINE*
22:30 < aestetix> If someone is having a drug related issue, it's a lot easier to deal with the situation if you are not on drugs :)
22:31 <@Dagmar> Oh gods yes
22:31 <@Dagmar> Rule #3: Make no major decisions while fucked up.
22:31 < aestetix> But yeah.
22:32 < aestetix> I asked the people at Noisebridge multiple times how mediation worked.
22:32 <@Dagmar> ...which leads to Rule #4: If you plan to be fucked up, do not schedule-conflict with anything that might require you to make a major decision.
22:32 < aestetix> None of them could give me a straight answer.
22:32 < RangerZ> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKRY3lSbl5Q
22:32 < GateKeeper> Title: $2k Consumer Iron Man Suit: Real or Scam? - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
22:32 <@Dagmar> Kind of a shame that a dude who just built like twenty fucking racks of awesome liquid-cooled boards, madman-style, may have to reloacte it all
22:33 <@Dagmar> ...because that shit is *crazy* for crunching numbers
22:33 < RangerZ> HAS to be a HOAX, i HIGHLY doubt that marvel(now disney) would allow that
22:34 <@Dagmar> Christ have people not learned to recognize AR advertisements yet?
22:34 <@Dagmar> er ARG
22:34 <@Dagmar> They *could* probably do it tho
22:35 <@Dagmar> The quality would be seriously iffy tho
22:35 <@NotLarry> Wait, y'all get fucked up?
22:35 <@NotLarry> What's it like?
22:35 <@Dagmar> ...but you could mass-produce the stuff as basically at giant-ass metal maquette if you tried
22:36 <@Dagmar> NotLarry: No actually, worrying about the "rules" of not getting into some mess are the reason I pretty much only do that in a "controlled" environment like PN, anymore
22:38 <@Dagmar> So, keep in mind there's factories in Asia regularly cranking out bizarre-ass cases, and they have been constantly changing their models for years now.
22:38 < RangerZ> Dagmar: yeah, they probably could, since the 'real' ironman suit in the movie is 3D printed itself
22:39 <@Dagmar> This really wouldn't require much more than the shit it takes to make a fancy PC case, but with about four times the work and materials
22:39 <@Dagmar> It would just not be the thing you'd want to say, take a *hit* in
22:39 <@Dagmar> It would be a mass-produced cosplay suit
22:40 <@Dagmar> ...and remember China's pollicy towards intellectual property
22:40 <@Dagmar> ...as in "We LOVE your intellectual property"
22:41 <@Dagmar> Yep.  Carbon fiber
22:42 <@Dagmar> "We will use Industrial Injection Molding Process during the mass production."
22:42 <@Dagmar> *Physically* I think they could do it for that, but I'm not sure how well that as a professional endeavor would hold up to the giant-ass lawsuit from Marvle
22:42 <@Dagmar> er Marvel
22:44 <@Dagmar> I don't think this is a scam so much as it is some guys looking to see if they can get away with doing it
22:46 <@Dagmar> *Probably* will look better than http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/ironman.jpg
22:46 <@Dagmar> I'm pretty sure that one's more like, $20.
22:47 <@Dagmar> ...assuming you have no shame.
22:49 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: Word of warning.  Blockland... Umm... yeah check the demo _first_.  Really.  Not even for three dollars.
22:49 <@Dagmar> Just... no.
22:50 <@Dagmar> Their little video makes it look like "OMGAWESOMESAUCE"
22:50 <@Dagmar> It reminds me of the video games from the 90's where they'd craftily show you FMV to promote the game, which was actually done entirely in the obscure Halt-ee Origami style of art.
22:55 < RangerZ> so... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wife_acceptance_factor
22:55 < GateKeeper> Title: Wife acceptance factor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
22:55 <@SuMo_D> aestetix ranger training? like army ranger?
22:56 < RangerZ> gotta love random google searches that find interesting things
22:58 < aestetix> SuMo_D: Burning Man rangers
22:59 <@SuMo_D> ah that makes more sense
22:59 <@SuMo_D> I was like..... eeeerrr
23:00 <@Dagmar> Yeah if your'e spending $2,000 on a cosplay suit, either your wife had better be into cosplay, or she's probably sleeping with someone else
23:01 <@Dagmar> Hmm... I suspec The Walking Dead, Season 2, is just the first EP
23:01 <@Dagmar> 1.0Gb.
23:02 < aestetix> SuMo_D: and yeah.... I lit up for a moment there. That person didn't mean to, but they grossly mischaracterized what happened at noisebridge.
23:02 < aestetix> I suspect it was more they heard that info from someone else who did.
23:04 <@SuMo_D> yeah
23:06 < RangerZ> good news... This wasn't NotLarry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkk-TKl-ZME
23:06 < GateKeeper> Title: Man Strips Wife Nude On PS4 Twitch Stream - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
23:07 <@Dagmar> *whew*
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23:47 -!- anarchival [~amberadam@unaffiliated/anarchival] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:50 <@NotLarry> weird
23:51 <@NotLarry> So, handing a coworker fiber, and labels, and the paper describing the job, and pointing out where it has to go, is not enough.  I am pretty sure he is sitting there waiting for me to go help him run fiber.
--- Log closed Wed Dec 18 00:00:13 2013