--- Log opened Tue Aug 13 00:00:45 2013
00:16 <@Evilpig> notlarry: this is the issue here but this is two years old and what we're seeing just started.  https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/chromium-discuss/rtYCArMK89Y
00:16 < GateKeeper> Title: Google Groups (at groups.google.com)
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01:46 < RangerZ1> Evilpig: there is also a huge benefit to be said about using google's java UI designer and having it output AJAX code for you, it solves a lot of issues like that
01:47 < RangerZ1> plus it optimizes actual screen load times, etc
01:50 < RangerZ1> gwt*
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03:18 < RangerZ1> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/08/microsoft-now-says-kinect-turns-off-completely-xbox-one-can-work-without-it/ LOLOLOL
03:18 < GateKeeper> Title: Microsoft now says Kinect turns off completely; Xbox One can work without it | Ars Technica (at arstechnica.com)
04:00 < RangerZ1> now... they COULD sell a version without Kinect, but they won't, no chance for that now
04:01 < RangerZ1> Casual buyers would NEVER buy one, lol, and they NEED people to start to love it to build its brand vs ps4
04:08 < RangerZ1> ohh goodie.... rain today 'flash flood warnings all up and down the country' ..yays...
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04:49 < glurk> anyone alive in here?
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 13 05:33:50 2013
--- Log opened Tue Aug 13 05:33:57 2013
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06:31 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
07:57 <@Dickie> No u
09:03 < RangerZ1> i thought we had a no "hate speech" clause in this channel... and THAT is hate speech... reminding people of the fact that it is morning... evil
09:05 <@Dickie> I'm not good at hate speech
09:17 <@Dagmar>  Let me help you with that
09:17 <@Dagmar> Oh wait
09:17 <@Dagmar> Nevermind
09:22 <@Dickie> Shut up you ...black guy
09:22 <@Dickie> Yeah
09:22 <@Dickie> Take that
09:22 <@sdodson> that's rough
09:28 < RangerZ1> you could have called him Evilpig_ now thats an insult ;)
09:29 < RangerZ1> or 'ware' , or 'he who shall not be named in this channel' lol
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09:34 <@sdodson> mercster?
09:40 <@eryc> someone invite mercster back
09:47 <@rattle> Kill all the white men!
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10:54 <@Dagmar> Oh lordy
10:54 <@Dagmar> It appears some lunatic managed to actually get the address noreply@vanderbilt.edu
10:54 <@Dagmar> I can almost feel the shitstorm growing
10:55 <@rattle> Haw haw haw, that's awesome.
10:55 <@rattle> Please tell me he has a name like Ned O'Reply.
10:58 <@Dagmar> Nope.  It's some woman and we have no idea what she was thinking.
10:59 <@Dagmar> ...but it is wreaking havoc here.
10:59 <@Dagmar> ....cuz now that email address is actually accepting mail, and her spool is almost full.
10:59 <@rattle> Awesome.
10:59 <@Dagmar> Actually, I should amend that, it's been purged once already and it's about to be full again
11:00 <@Dagmar> People are getting weird-assed bounce messages all over the place
11:01 <@Dagmar> Why idev even let that be possible I have no idea
11:02 <@Dagmar> "It is causing us issues in the email environment"
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11:25 <@Catonic> Dagmar: nice
11:25 <@Catonic> someone got a special university tag around here: "NULL"
11:25 <@Catonic> surprise, University Parking booted the car.
11:25 <@Catonic> Surprise, it hit reddit.
11:26 <@Catonic> The vendor patched the problem in under eight hours. I'm rather amazed it was a "unique" problem for the vendor. Yeah... right.
11:27 <@Catonic> I kinda wondered why I haven't heard from Neoteric for a while... Then I remember that he introduced himself as the most racist Asian ever. And now I no longer wonder.
11:27 <@Catonic> Dolemite: so what was the final tally on the number of days spent moving the silos around?
11:28 <@Dolemite> Catonic:  2 were moved Fri-Sun; 1 Tue-Wed; and 2 more Fri-Sun
11:29 <@Dolemite> And approximately 40,000 tapes to go along with the libraries
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11:36 <@Catonic> Wow. Did you have to notify the users, schedule downtime, eject and reload?
11:36 <@Catonic> Like, if a user needed a tape, go and load that tape out of the 40k?
11:38 <@Dolemite> We had scheduled downtimes for HPSS for the two weekends.  The one that moved in the middle of the week was not service impacting
11:38 <@Catonic> Anyone working with dedup?
11:41 <@Catonic> Word.
11:41 <@Dolemite> We are getting rid of dedupe here, and tried it at VU when I was there to much disappointment
11:56 <@Dagmar> New chaos: alias vi='vi -H'
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12:02 <@Dagmar> I hit that by mistake with some terrible carat substitution and thought "What the fuck just happened to my screen"
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12:23 <@rattle> I have no idea what's up with Neoteric lately.  He blew me off repeatedly when I was moving from DC.
12:24 <@rattle> He also blew Tom and I off when we were in town for the Gartner conference.  He's got some kinda bug up his ass.
12:24 <@eryc> i haven't talked to him in a long long time either
12:42 <@eryc> https://picroma.com/cubeworld
12:42 < GateKeeper> Title: Picroma (at picroma.com)
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13:22 < aestetix_> So, something just occured to me.
13:23 < aestetix_> If american health care is so great, why do we need social security?
13:23 <@Corydon76-work> Because Social Security is to prevent poverty in old age, not take care of your medical expenses
13:24 < aestetix_> Then why does it cover health issues?
13:24 <@Corydon76-work> It doesn't
13:24 <@Corydon76-work> You're thinking of Medicare or Medicaid, perhaps
13:24 < aestetix_> Nope. I have had friends who got checks from social security because of terminal illnesses.
13:24 <@Corydon76-work> Or were you perhaps thinking of economic disability?
13:24 < aestetix_> Ahh, disability.
13:25 < aestetix_> Ok, so social security is to prevent poverty for the elderly and disabled?
13:25 <@Corydon76-work> Correct
13:26 <@Corydon76-work> However, right now, it goes to the elderly despite their other forms of income.  There's discussion of making it means-tested, just as disability benefits are.
13:46 < RangerZ> Corydon76-work: 'means testing' is _literally_ just a 'starve the beast' tactic to make it 'them' getting benefits, and make the better off no 'favor' it anymore
13:46 < RangerZ> so keeping it universal (other than states' employees) is what has kept it popular and favored
13:46 < RangerZ> plus the rich HAVE paid into it, etc
13:47 < RangerZ> the REAL problem is that the SS tax is capped at ~105,000$ or so,
13:47 <@Dagmar> Actually, the real problem is that they've already spent all that money
13:47 < RangerZ> if you get rid of the cap, social security is solvent for the next 85 years
13:48 < aestetix_> RangerZ: you mean that even if you make $100million a year, you only pay $105k into it?
13:48 <@Dagmar> If they hadn't spent all the money but instead kept it and invested it in some way other than shyster land deals, it would be in considerably better shape
13:48 < RangerZ> no, only pay TAX on the 105k , so you only pay like 105k*0.03 %
13:48 <@Dagmar> Also, they just reduced the amount of money they give the elderly
13:48 < RangerZ> ...like 105k*0.03 $ ***
13:49 < RangerZ> so like 5k$ a year
13:49 < RangerZ> or something
13:49 < RangerZ> its between 3~6%
13:49 < RangerZ> it changed based on age, and other stuff
13:49 < RangerZ> but thats basically what it is
13:49 <@Dagmar> it was _reduced_ across the board
13:49 <@Dagmar> My parents are that old.
13:50 <@Corydon76-work> RangerZ: the rich may have paid into it, but it's supposed to be essentially an insurance plan
13:50 <@Dagmar> Wasn't exactly a minor amount either
13:50 < RangerZ> Romney and the doctor making 120k a year, paid the same $ amount
13:50 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: Liar.  Like Romney pays taxes
13:50 < RangerZ> well he did, when he wanted to run for office that one year
13:50 <@Corydon76-work> If you invested your millions with Bernie Madoff, you aren't forced into poverty
13:51 < RangerZ> don't worry, the day after the election, he filed ammendments to his taxes, ... lol
13:51 <@Corydon76-work> Romney paid a lot less than the doctor earning $120k, because Romney's income isn't in the form of wages.
13:51 <@Dagmar> I was led to believe the real stinker was that he skipped a few years and then took advantage of the amnesty program
13:52 < RangerZ> Dagmar: yeah thats probably true
13:52 <@Corydon76-work> And the Social Security tax is only on earned income, not interest and dividends
13:52 < RangerZ> same for 'offshore' in caymans and switzerland
13:53 < aestetix_> Are all Romney's earnings capital gains?
13:53 < RangerZ> no, he earns 'income' as a speaker
13:53 < RangerZ> like 1million a  year
13:53 < RangerZ> chump change to him, lol
13:54 < aestetix_> Uh. What does he speak on
13:54 < RangerZ> the REAL shit is his IRA is like 150million USD
13:54 < RangerZ> despite a 15k a year input limit
13:54 < RangerZ> so you can put ' shares' into your IRA as long as you 'bought' them for the 15k, and thats what he did
13:55 <@Corydon76-work> He doesn't have to speak on much of anything.  Just the usual shuck and jive
13:55 < aestetix_> Invite him to speak at PhreakNIC :p
13:55 < RangerZ> then 'by magic' they became worth millions... b/c they were shares to a company bane capitol was managing
13:55 < RangerZ> 250k speakers fee
13:55 < RangerZ> lol
13:55 < aestetix_> jesus
13:56 < aestetix_> I need to step up my game apparently
13:56 < aestetix_> Since when I go to speak I usually lose money
13:56 <@Corydon76-work> There's lots of tricks you can pull if you have the money to play with
13:57 < aestetix_> Corydon76-work: So if I inherit a few million from my rich daddy, I can use tricks to get even richer?
13:57 < RangerZ> aestetix_: yes
13:57 < RangerZ> thats how america's tax system is designed
13:57 < aestetix_> So now I just need to find a rich daddy.
13:57 <@Corydon76-work> That's essentially what Bain Capital is, a financial magic trick shop
13:58 < aestetix_> RangerZ: the federal reserve has scared me enough as I read more into it
13:58 < aestetix_> I don't even want to think about how bad the tax system is
13:58 <@Corydon76-work> They buy a solid, pull all the value out, and then sell it, leaving behind a financially unstable company that usually winds up declaring bankruptcy in a few months
13:58 < RangerZ> fed reserve is 'good' and 'bad' at the same time
13:59 < RangerZ> without it we'd be fucked, economically, but with it, we're screwed
13:59  * aestetix_ nods
13:59 < aestetix_> And no politician will abolish it because they don't want to deal with the blame for economic woes
13:59 <@Corydon76-work> The tax system isn't bad; it's just that those with a lot of money have more time to think up tricks that the IRS has agents to shut down
14:00 <@Corydon76-work> and unfortunately, unless a person files a tax return, the IRS doesn't have the time to verify a tax dodge; they have to rely upon snitches
14:01 < RangerZ> every IRS agent brings in 7$ per 1$ we spend on them
14:01 < RangerZ> so GOP make sure we don't have NEARLY enough
14:01 < aestetix_> So if you're rich, you can get peple both to protect you from snitches, and snitch on folks threatening you
14:01 < RangerZ> same with ATF, SEVERELY understaffed
14:02 <@Corydon76-work> ATF has another problem; they're hamstrung by Congressional action
14:02 < RangerZ> that too
14:02 < RangerZ> but now that AFT has a REAL director, it isn't as much
14:02 < RangerZ> first time in 7 years
14:02 <@Corydon76-work> They're supposed to regulate the sales of guns, but they're prohibited from keeping a database on guns in the sales channel
14:03 < RangerZ> thats how they did it , they made the ATF 'require' a director , not an 'acting one' to do shit
14:05 <@Dagmar> Perhaps if it was required that you promise to shoot a politician with it, getting a discount on gun purchases would help
14:08 < RangerZ> so I linked this last night, but... http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/08/13/1733234/microsoft-xbox-one-wont-require-kinect-to-function
14:08 < GateKeeper> Title: Microsoft: Xbox One Won't Require Kinect To Function - Slashdot (at hardware.slashdot.org)
14:08 < RangerZ> hahaha
14:08 < aestetix_> Ok so
14:08 < aestetix_> How can I learn more about the tax system?
14:08 <@Corydon76-work> RangerZ: you going to nlug tonight?
14:08 < RangerZ> XBOX ONE is going to be in marketing textbooks next year
14:08 < aestetix_> IE I found "Secrets of the Temple" to be a great book about the Federal Reserve
14:08 < RangerZ> nashville has nlugs?
14:08 < RangerZ> lies
14:08 <@Corydon76-work> It's in Light Hall at 6pm
14:09 < RangerZ> Corydon76-work: honestly I wasn't planning on it, but i can stop by
14:09 <@Corydon76-work> Free pizza
14:09 < RangerZ> that same room as always?
14:09 <@Corydon76-work> No, Light Hall this time
14:09 <@Corydon76-work> RLH 202
14:09 < RangerZ> ok
14:09 < RangerZ> drinks too?
14:09 < RangerZ> or should I bring my own
14:10 <@Corydon76-work> They didn't say anything about it, so I'd assume bring your own
14:10 < RangerZ> ok
14:10 < RangerZ> aestetix_: honestly, the tax system is the most complex thing legally out there to 'try to get into'
14:11 < RangerZ> aestetix_: sit down with an accountant/tax lawyer for a few hours
14:11 < RangerZ> and pick their brain
14:11 < aestetix_> Got it.
14:11 < aestetix_> Luckily, I actually have one of those handy.
14:11 <@Corydon76-work> Or attend law school and become a tax attorney
14:11 < aestetix_> http://taxninja.com/
14:11 < RangerZ> yeah
14:11 < GateKeeper> Title: Tax and Business Services | Tax Ninja (at taxninja.com)
14:12 <@Corydon76-work> Tax law isn't difficult; it's just multi-volumed and long
14:12 < aestetix_> So basically the tax code sounds like a lot of duct tape that broke and got re duct-taped
14:12 < RangerZ> and tons of loop holes all over
14:12 < RangerZ> that got plugged, and made new ones, etc
14:13 < RangerZ> 503c4 shit is ENTIRELY a flaw in the code
14:13 < RangerZ> and IRS is actually not enforcing the law the way it is written, the way it is written is 'entirely' (or 'completely') and they use 'mostly' in their enforcement
14:13 < aestetix_> well
14:14 < aestetix_> how often do pplaces enforce the law the way it's written
14:15 <@Corydon76-work> RangerZ: the reason for the IRS interpretation is that they had one of their rulings overturned by the court
14:15 <@Corydon76-work> So basically the IRS refuses to enforce the law, because the court gave them a smackdown
14:16 <@Corydon76-work> and since Congress has failed to rewrite the law taking into account the court's ruling, there's really nothing the IRS can do about it
14:17 <@Corydon76-work> aestetix_: the interpretation by the courts of law previously reserved to bureaucrats is what makes the law so complicated
14:17 < aestetix_> At this point, Congress reminds me of one of those automaton models that, after many years of running, has gotten itself into deadlock
14:18 <@Corydon76-work> Think about it as a well-built wall with gaping holes shot into it by the courts, and the bureaucrats are doing all they can to keep the wall standing.  That's the current state of tax law.
14:19 <@Corydon76-work> If you only read the regulations as written, it's essentially like looking at the blueprints and concluding that the wall is solid.
14:19 < aestetix_> Or like reading the law without looking at case law?
14:19 <@Corydon76-work> Very much so
14:20 <@Corydon76-work> But even law books do things like parethetically remove statutes which have been struck down.
14:21 <@Corydon76-work> and they sometimes do it in ways where you can't even tell what the law was previously.  That was the case in 1996 with the TN Sodomy Statute.  By 1997, the law books had that statute parenthetically removed
14:22 <@Corydon76-work> Virginia is going through this now, with an interesting case, whereby a pedophile successfully challenged his conviction, because his conviction was based upon the Virginia sodomy law that was invalidated in 2003, and the VA Legislature never got around to rewriting it
14:23 < aestetix_> btw speaking of laws
14:23 < aestetix_> RangerZ: do you know of any way to look up the history of a particular law?
14:23 < aestetix_> Oakland's website sucks
14:23 < RangerZ> git blame ?
14:23 < RangerZ> ;)
14:24 < aestetix_> I would kill for that
14:25 < aestetix_> RangerZ: that mask law in particular. I can see the KKK having issues in the south, unsure about oakland though
14:25 < RangerZ> KKK was actually bigger in big cities outside the south
14:25 < RangerZ> b/c they were 'recruiting' not preaching to the choir
14:26 < RangerZ> cleveland in particular
14:26 < aestetix_> oh interesring
14:26 < RangerZ> back when they thought they could DO that
14:32 < RangerZ> aestetix_: apparently congress DOES have a 'git blame' features
14:32 < RangerZ> but they "turn it off" for really contentious bills, etc
14:33 < RangerZ> but that only says who 'submitted' the bill/ammendment
14:33 < RangerZ> not which part of ALEC wrote it for them, etc
14:33 < aestetix_> well
14:33 < aestetix_> I'm mostly interested in when the law came into being
14:34 < RangerZ> ohh, thats 'easy' ,  you just have to read all the laws
14:34 < RangerZ> lol
14:35 < RangerZ> but seriously, i think they all have timestamps on them
14:35 < RangerZ> i know they do in OHIO
14:36 < RangerZ> http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1101
14:36 < GateKeeper> Title: Lawriter - ORC (at codes.ohio.gov)
14:36 < aestetix_> oakland doesn't
14:36 < RangerZ> even has a nice site online which shows the date repealed, amended, etc
14:37 < RangerZ> hell, they might
14:37 < RangerZ> just hidden
14:37 < RangerZ> a local push for them to, might be able to get lots of backing from random places
14:38 < RangerZ> both left and right, and etc.... etc...
14:38 < aestetix_> http://library.municode.com/HTML/16308/level2/TIT9PUPEMOWE_CH9.08OFAGPUPEDE.html#TIT9PUPEMOWE_CH9.08OFAGPUPEDE_9.08.070MADI
14:38 < GateKeeper> Title: Chapter 9.08 OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC PEACE AND DECENCY (at library.municode.com)
14:38 < aestetix_> that's what I have to work with
14:39 < aestetix_> it does say prior code, but that doesn't help much
14:39 < RangerZ> ahh, yeah it needs cross linked
14:39 < RangerZ> like a HTML page... . LOL
14:40 < aestetix_> I would kill for a history of that law
14:40 < RangerZ> thats a violation of Ord. No. 13014, § 3, 5-18-2010; Prior code § 3-4.08
14:40 < RangerZ> ;)
14:41 < RangerZ> obviously
14:44 < aestetix_> if you can translate that into a timestamp for me, you'll be my best friend
14:44 < RangerZ> 5-18-2010 ?
14:44 < RangerZ> obvious date in that
14:45 < aestetix_> oh wait
14:45 < aestetix_> where di you get that
14:45 < aestetix_> oh, that's because I misread it
14:46  * aestetix_ sucks at multitasking
14:46 < RangerZ> sorry ,  06 feb 10 1:08
14:46 < RangerZ> approved as to form and legality by city attorney
14:47 < aestetix_> uh
14:47 < aestetix_> that's the date for the nudity law
14:47 < aestetix_> not the masks law
14:47 < aestetix_> (Prior code § 3-4.06)
14:47 < aestetix_> that is what I have for the masks law
14:49 < aestetix_> or did you assume I was referring to the nudity law
14:49 < RangerZ> no i was just copying a random one as an example of a joke
14:50 < aestetix_> oh
14:50 < RangerZ> http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=182-185
14:50 < GateKeeper> Title: CA Codes (pen:182-185) (at www.leginfo.ca.gov)
14:50 < RangerZ> looks like oakland's is the least of your worries
14:50 < RangerZ> its a CA code too
14:51 < aestetix_> what
14:51 < RangerZ> "One--Evading or escaping discovery, recognition, or identification in the commission of any public offense."
14:51 < aestetix_> interesting
14:51 < RangerZ> illegal to wear masks
14:51 < RangerZ> while doing another crime
14:51 < RangerZ> basically a 'tack-on crime'
14:51 < aestetix_> well sure
14:51 < aestetix_> but then wearing the mask isn't a crime
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14:53 < aestetix_> ugh
14:53 < aestetix_> it's like there is this wall
14:53 < RangerZ> its that way on purpose
14:53 < aestetix_> on one hand of the wall are people who have no clue about this stuff and assume you'd only wear a mask for a crime
14:53 < RangerZ> plus you lack the basic understanding
14:53 < aestetix_> on the other side are those who have actually worn masks
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14:53 < RangerZ> of what the 'secret symbols' mean
14:53 < RangerZ> its probably obvious to legalese people what/where you need to look
14:54 < aestetix_> well the thing is
14:54 < aestetix_> that mask law is about using a mask to commit a crime, right?
14:54 < aestetix_> but the oakland law says nothing about "to commit a crime"
14:54 < RangerZ> yeah
14:55 < RangerZ> its KKK related
14:55 < RangerZ> basically 'fuck you for wanting to hide your identity'
14:55 < aestetix_> If it were "to commit a crime" it would be a huge world of difference
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14:57 < RangerZ> hell, looks like there was REQUIRED mask wearing during the old flu outbreaks
14:57 < RangerZ> 1918, and they arrested 400+ people for NOT wearing their mask properly while outside
14:57 < RangerZ> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/f/flu/9250flu.0007.529/1/--488-arrests-under-flu-mask-law?page=root;size=100;view=pdf
14:57 < GateKeeper> Title: 488 Arrests Under Flu Mask Law (at quod.lib.umich.edu)
14:59 < RangerZ> but yeah, thats about all i can find in the little time I have right now, i'd say just talk to lawyers, etc
14:59 < RangerZ> and they will know where to really look
14:59 < RangerZ> or go ask the clerk of courts
14:59 < RangerZ> that IS their job
14:59 < RangerZ> lol
15:00 < RangerZ> or any librarian
15:00 < RangerZ> they will know too
15:02 < RangerZ> every librarian has a masters in library studies
15:02 < RangerZ> so yeah....
15:02 < RangerZ> make nice with them, lol
15:33 < aestetix_> penis
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 14 00:00:46 2013