2013-06-11T00:05:49  <aestetix> hey
2013-06-11T00:05:54  <aestetix> wanna see the new attack from the harpies?
2013-06-11T00:06:02  <aestetix> http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/06/microsoft-e3-rape-joke/66092/
2013-06-11T00:06:30  <Evilpig> prepping for a rattle attack  http://www.phreaknic.info/pn17/hotel
2013-06-11T00:06:31  <GateKeeper> Title: PhreakNIC17 :: The early edition (at www.phreaknic.info)
2013-06-11T00:08:02  <Bahhumbug> win: http://cheezburger.com/7526318592?ref=filmstrip
2013-06-11T00:08:03  <GateKeeper> Title: Protip: This Does Not Actually Work - Cheezburger (at cheezburger.com)
2013-06-11T00:08:14  <oddball> Now with more rainbow coming out of NotLarry's ass?
2013-06-11T00:08:36  <Evilpig> nope.  this year rattle is the unwilling spokesperson
2013-06-11T00:30:16  <aestetix> vagina
2013-06-11T00:32:05  <Evilpig> how the hell!  there are already volunteers signed up for this year and Ihaven't finished the damn form
2013-06-11T00:32:25  <Evilpig> they used the semi-broken form from last year
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2013-06-11T00:51:41  <rhia> aestetix: next time you get raped, we'll remember to pull that up and laugh at you
2013-06-11T01:03:27  <aestetix> rhia: I'm more likely to get raped in the bay area than anywhere else.
2013-06-11T01:03:40  <aestetix> (where the guys get roofied too)
2013-06-11T01:03:48  <Evilpig> okay.  volunteer inferfact all cleaned up and working correctly for the new pn site
2013-06-11T01:05:38  <rhia> and we'll have every right to laugh at you and call you a harpy if you complain ... got it
2013-06-11T01:07:02  <Evilpig> can I laugh at him anyway?
2013-06-11T01:07:05  <Evilpig> cause i'm gonna
2013-06-11T01:07:21  <rhia> Evilpig: go for it
2013-06-11T01:08:21  <aestetix> rhia: my specific issue is that things were read from those comments that I don't believe were there. I'm specifically using the word "harpie" to describe people who I feel are setting back actual positive feminism.
2013-06-11T01:09:00  <aestetix> I'm in favor of removing things like glass ceilings. I am not in favor of walking across a landmine field of things that might offend someone.
2013-06-11T01:10:58  <rhia> aestetix: i spend the vast majority of my online time surrounded by hackers, geeks, and atheists ... and in all those communities  the misogny and rape jokes are pathetically rampant
2013-06-11T01:12:29  <rhia> aestetix: make the misognistic carpet bombing stop and there would be no need to fear landmines
2013-06-11T01:13:34  <aestetix> Would that have been misogyny if it were a man rather than a woman?
2013-06-11T01:14:06  <rhia> aestetix: dictionary: misogyny
2013-06-11T01:14:35  <aestetix> Let me rephrase
2013-06-11T01:14:43  <rhia> oh, please do
2013-06-11T01:14:52  <aestetix> Would the same implications have been suspected by the writer of that article had it been a man and not a woman?
2013-06-11T01:15:24  <rhia> a man .... what?  writer? focus?
2013-06-11T01:15:37  <aestetix> Oh wait, did you see the article I linked?
2013-06-11T01:16:01  <rhia> yes ...
2013-06-11T01:16:06  <rhia> hang on
2013-06-11T01:16:40  <aestetix> Ok. In the article, there was a game match between a man and a woman. The man was being aggressive and saying some words like "it'll be over soon." The writer of the article then took the leap that it was a joke about rape.
2013-06-11T01:17:06  <aestetix> Which is why I ask wehther the writer of the article would have made the same leap had it been two men playing a game and saying the exact same things to each other.
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2013-06-11T01:17:38  <aestetix> I understand misogyny is a big issues. This is one of the reasons I won't go to DefCon anymore.
2013-06-11T01:17:48  <rhia> if it had been two men, or two women, no ... but, a megacorp in the gaming industry that is WELL aware of the muchly rightly earned  reputation for misogyny, sorry, but, no excuses
2013-06-11T01:18:21  <aestetix> So you think the leap to call it a rape joke was justified?
2013-06-11T01:18:40  <aestetix> I could see power dynamics at play, and maybe the writer felt the power dynamics were unfair, but that's not necessarily a gender thing.
2013-06-11T01:18:43  <rhia> it was more of a small sidestep, not a leap
2013-06-11T01:19:49  <rhia> it was specifically set up that the man was dominant and making such statements ... and this wasn't some podunk 3 man startup
2013-06-11T01:20:46  <aestetix> So, that's a much different issue though. And maybe there are other things going on at that event that justify such remarks.
2013-06-11T01:21:02  <aestetix> er, remarks from the writer
2013-06-11T01:21:16  <rhia> alrighty, justify them, go ahead, i could use the laughs
2013-06-11T01:21:51  <aestetix> Did you read what I wrote?
2013-06-11T01:22:02  <rhia> yes
2013-06-11T01:22:20  <rhia> are you comprehending what I'm writing?
2013-06-11T01:22:22  <aestetix> Yes.
2013-06-11T01:22:39  <aestetix> Fuck it.
2013-06-11T01:23:01  <rhia> i'm still curious as to what other things going on could possibly justify those remarks
2013-06-11T01:23:18  <aestetix> I meant justify the remarks from the writer about it being a sidestep to rape
2013-06-11T01:23:32  <aestetix> Not the remarks the guys in the game made.
2013-06-11T01:23:51  <rhia> k ....
2013-06-11T01:24:30  <aestetix> Ok, this is now too loaded for me, so I'm stepping away.
2013-06-11T01:24:42  <rhia> you might want to eliminate "harpy" and such from any further references though as it apparently leads to completely different associations than what you're now saying
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2013-06-11T01:53:40  <Evilpig> Okay all the links are active now except for the schedule
2013-06-11T02:48:37  <RangerZ> aestetix:  rhia it wasn't a rape joke, it was a  joke about her SUCKING AT THAT GAME
2013-06-11T02:49:29  <RangerZ> "this wont take long[b/c you suck(not perverted way)]"
2013-06-11T02:53:30  <RangerZ> the problem is... guys tease each other MERCILESSLY when alone without girls, and when girls see it or get targeted ... they don't get it , or think its personal, etc... The best explanation of this is the MEME where "guys make fun of each other to each others faces, and women make fun of each other behind each other's back." whether or not thats true, thats the common stereotype ... so I think a lot of this discussion between you two..
2013-06-11T02:54:06  <RangerZ> so guys need to change and never act like guys, or women have to understand how guys act, and not think its personal.
2013-06-11T02:55:37  <RangerZ> but yeah... that was a poorly scripted live event, b/c events like that are suppose to be so scrubbed of any 'personality' so that no one from 'extremist feminism' to "people who hate feminism" can't complain
2013-06-11T02:57:00  <RangerZ> plus... women teabag others when they play FPS games like HALO (i've watched my ex do it) ... so its not just guys who reference 'rape' in a separate way than we do the REAL sexual assault act.
2013-06-11T03:36:25  <Dagmar> Puh lease.  They're complain anyway
2013-06-11T03:38:26  <Dagmar> It was an entirely errneous deduction.
2013-06-11T03:38:55  <Dagmar> There are *many* other, much more likely contexts in which "It will be over soon" and they don't require a threat of rape to make any sense
2013-06-11T03:40:05  <Dagmar> Unless that guy, personally, has a history of threatening graphic acts of sexual violence against women while playing games, this is likely more Ada Initiative bullshit
2013-06-11T03:46:18  <RangerZ> ada?
2013-06-11T03:46:45  <Dagmar> THe problem here is that the woman wasn't up there sucking because she's a woman.  She was up there sucking because she's a manager that clearly doesn't play fight games.
2013-06-11T03:46:47  <RangerZ> you mean that one woman getting upset over a comment that wasn't directed at her...
2013-06-11T03:47:02  <Dagmar> RangerZ: It's not just one woman unfortunately
2013-06-11T03:47:30  <RangerZ> there is no way that anyone would EVER complain about that, and then post online the pics of the two males she didn't know that she had gotten APOLOGIES from ...
2013-06-11T03:48:08  <Dagmar> Yeah well, Adria's out of a job now as well
2013-06-11T03:48:56  <RangerZ> is it sexist that I think "Good" ?
2013-06-11T03:49:06  <Dagmar> Nope.  She was a drama whore
2013-06-11T03:49:31  <RangerZ> Am I the only one who remember k to 5... where they tell you to not be a tattle tale? lol
2013-06-11T03:49:51  <Dagmar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArY6-1d7upI
2013-06-11T03:49:52  <GateKeeper> Title: IT WILL ALL BE OVER SOON - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
2013-06-11T03:50:26  <Dagmar> That wasn't even a tattle-tale thing>  That was deliberately taking comments out of their context in order to distort their meaning
2013-06-11T03:50:40  <RangerZ> i meant the ada girl
2013-06-11T03:50:43  <RangerZ> but yeah
2013-06-11T03:51:31  <RangerZ> i watched it live
2013-06-11T03:51:40  <RangerZ> and thought "oh god, people are going to get pissed at that"
2013-06-11T03:53:10  <Dagmar> Dude figured out real quick he was playing against someone whose idea of "fast-paced" is Bejeweled
2013-06-11T03:53:42  <RangerZ> yeah
2013-06-11T03:56:44  <Dagmar> WTF's he supposed to say "Keep struggling.  I'm sure something you press will work."
2013-06-11T04:01:44  <Dagmar> The thing I find most distasteful is that this went straight to the "guilty until proven innocent, and they're not innocent" state
2013-06-11T04:02:07  <Dagmar> because damn, it's so hard to contact a microsoft employee at E3 and ask him exactly what he meant
2013-06-11T04:02:34  <Dagmar> It's just another form of "You don't have to watch the video.  Trust me, it's offensive."
2013-06-11T04:04:50  <Evilpig> dag how long has ap23 been up?
2013-06-11T04:05:15  <Evilpig> nagios thinks it just rebooted less than 15 min ago, which is funny since that's itself
2013-06-11T04:05:23  <Dagmar> Nine years, three months, eleven days, six hours, twenty-three minutes.
2013-06-11T04:05:29  <Dagmar> How the fuck should I know
2013-06-11T04:05:48  <Dagmar> It probably *has* been up 397 days without a reboot
2013-06-11T04:06:11  <Dagmar> [pfr@its-hclnap23 ~]$ uptime
2013-06-11T04:06:12  <Dagmar>  03:06:03 up 497 days,  2:37,  1 user,  load average: 0.40, 0.26, 0.14
2013-06-11T04:06:24  <Dagmar> 32-bit overflow
2013-06-11T04:06:28  <Evilpig> roger
2013-06-11T04:06:37  <Evilpig> figured as much
2013-06-11T04:11:07  <Dagmar> I'm just waiting to be asked to ferret through the logs to find out who put srfs into maintenance mode for a week
2013-06-11T04:11:32  <aestetix> ok so
2013-06-11T04:11:45  <aestetix> anyone else having a sick sadistic pleasure watching all this NSA stuff come out?
2013-06-11T04:11:49  <Evilpig> I have a pretty good idea
2013-06-11T04:12:01  <Dagmar> aestetix: I posted some pretty clear things on both G+ and FB about it
2013-06-11T04:12:08  <Dagmar> Mainly "I told you fucking people this shit years ago"
2013-06-11T04:12:13  <aestetix> yep
2013-06-11T04:12:34  <Dagmar> The media *still* doesn't get it
2013-06-11T04:13:03  <Dagmar> That tech changes hands and responsibility on a regular basis so by the time anyone can track down that someone's abusing it... "That program was discontinued'.
2013-06-11T04:13:19  <aestetix> Well
2013-06-11T04:13:25  <Dagmar> Meanwhile, it's just a matter of "inter-departmental cooperation" for anyone to find out who has it at the moment and ask for data from it
2013-06-11T04:13:29  <aestetix> The mainsteam media won't say anything about it
2013-06-11T04:13:35  <aestetix> But I think that shows the necessity for MSM to go away
2013-06-11T04:13:42  <Evilpig> Dagmar: Magic ticket #119105
2013-06-11T04:13:44  <Dagmar> It's evildence laundering at it's finest
2013-06-11T04:13:54  <Dagmar> evilpig: huh?
2013-06-11T04:14:01  <Evilpig> that's your maint answer
2013-06-11T04:14:04  <Evilpig> check it tomorrow
2013-06-11T04:15:06  <Dagmar> Ah
2013-06-11T04:15:09  <Dagmar> He's already in trouble. lol
2013-06-11T04:15:31  <Dagmar> It was his change that he bobbled that resulted in one of the servers casually sitting on 18,000 pieces of mail
2013-06-11T04:15:48  <Dagmar> I ilke how I asked two of them "So why didn't SCOM alert on this?"
2013-06-11T04:16:00  <Dagmar> Complete non-answers from both people.
2013-06-11T04:16:18  <Evilpig> this is just wow
2013-06-11T04:16:20  <Evilpig> http://www.npr.org/2013/06/10/190160772/amid-data-controversy-nsa-builds-its-biggest-data-farm?utm_source=NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20130610
2013-06-11T04:16:21  <GateKeeper> Title: Amid Data Controversy, NSA Builds Its Biggest Data Farm : NPR (at www.npr.org)
2013-06-11T04:16:26  <Dagmar> Imma be a little bitchy about it because it's someone's silly mail issue that interrupted my shower that morning
2013-06-11T04:16:28  <Evilpig> 5 zetabytes storage capacity
2013-06-11T04:16:55  <Dagmar> evilpig: I find it amusing that the FIVE SQUARE BLOCK ONE they built in DC is no longer large enough
2013-06-11T04:17:19  <Dagmar> Still, they built that back in 2000.
2013-06-11T04:17:35  <Dagmar> I'm sure their needs have grown since then, what with all the spying on US citizens they're having to do
2013-06-11T04:17:47  <Dagmar> Diggin up dirt on political enemeies and so on
2013-06-11T04:17:57  <Evilpig> the last paragraph on that...
2013-06-11T04:17:58  <Evilpig> Despite its capacity, the Utah center does not satisfy NSA's data demands. Last month, the agency broke ground on its next data farm at its headquarters at Ft. Meade, Md. But that facility will be only two-thirds the size of the mega-complex in Utah.
2013-06-11T04:18:06  <Dagmar> what the NSA needs to do is bring back the good old days of J. Edgar Hoover.
2013-06-11T04:19:00  <Dagmar> THey should look for communists (because nowadays, people are more likely to get upset about white shoes before Labor Day than worry about if someone's a commie) and _politicians engaging in crime_
2013-06-11T04:19:27  <Dagmar> If they start regularly bringing the hammer down on Senators for taking bribes and power brokering, THEN they can meddle in domestic phone records
2013-06-11T04:20:35  <Dagmar> ...because if we threw a lot more dirty politicians in jail, this country would be far less likely to reach a state where something like Occupy happens, so there won't be a need for any large corporations to apply political pressure in order to get law enforcement to harass the people who say bad things about their criminal actions.
2013-06-11T04:22:49  <aestetix> god damn
2013-06-11T04:22:49  <aestetix> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD
2013-06-11T04:22:50  <GateKeeper> Title: Pardon Edward Snowden | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government (at petitions.whitehouse.gov)
2013-06-11T04:22:56  <aestetix> 42 thousand signatures so far
2013-06-11T04:22:56  <Dagmar> The FBI and the NSA should *both* go back to looking for dirty politicians
2013-06-11T04:38:00  <RangerZ> fuck that
2013-06-11T04:38:10  <RangerZ> we need to pass public financed elections
2013-06-11T04:38:16  <RangerZ> and FUCK all these lobbiests
2013-06-11T04:38:32  <RangerZ> lobbiests are suppose to REPRESENT people, they rep $s now, not people
2013-06-11T04:38:53  <RangerZ> thats one of the biggest flaws in our govt system and therefore society
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2013-06-11T06:59:09  <Evilpig> well damn.  that was faster than I figured.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22850901
2013-06-11T06:59:10  <GateKeeper> Title: BBC News - US spy leaker Edward Snowden leaves Hong Kong hotel (at www.bbc.co.uk)
2013-06-11T06:59:15  <Evilpig> they didn't even let his 15 minutes pass
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2013-06-11T07:38:02  <Dolemite> mr0ning, h0ez and be0tches!
2013-06-11T07:42:36  <Evilpig> there are already people signed up to be volunteers for PN.  I hadn't fully fixed teh form yet and people signed up anyway
2013-06-11T07:42:44  <Evilpig> actual people, not bots
2013-06-11T07:47:14  <Dolemite> Oh?  I just got the one email from you testing last night.
2013-06-11T07:49:00  <Evilpig> knightlord and wife signed up a while ago too
2013-06-11T07:50:02  <Dolemite> Ah
2013-06-11T07:50:53  <Dolemite> I'm tempted to change the welcome message for the discussion mailing list to state - "If you are running openDCIM on Windows, don't even think about asking installation questions on this list.  It runs on LAMP.  Go install VirtualBox and download a pre-built appliance."
2013-06-11T07:51:25  <eryc> well its PHP so you're already in noobland
2013-06-11T07:51:32  <eryc> may as well support windows
2013-06-11T07:51:43  <Evilpig> I'd swear that guy bypassed the setting up the user account and went straight to install
2013-06-11T07:54:03  <Dolemite> eryc: Your attempt at trolling has been duly noted, and ignored
2013-06-11T07:56:49  <eryc> you can
2013-06-11T07:57:04  <eryc> you can't be self-righteous and superior running LAMP
2013-06-11T07:57:32  <eryc> or as i call it, LAMEP
2013-06-11T08:00:01  <Dolemite> It's not about being self righteous and superior.  It's about limiting the scope of what we support due to limited support resources.
2013-06-11T08:00:42  <Dolemite> If we had someone else who would step up and be the "Installation on Windows" person, then our stance would change
2013-06-11T08:01:00  <eryc> that would be funny to make an <h3>Installation On Windows
2013-06-11T08:01:06  <eryc> and then give directions to install VBox
2013-06-11T08:01:27  <eryc> like, step by step
2013-06-11T08:10:49  <Bahhumbug> If someone needs to be instructed how to install vbox or an OS on top of vbox then they probably have no real reason to be running a package such as OpenDCIM in the first place.
2013-06-11T08:11:13  <Evilpig> I question our userbase at times as is
2013-06-11T08:11:47  <Evilpig> When I get the notice inthe middle of the night that someone ahs signed up to the mailing list.  I cringe knowing what is about to come next
2013-06-11T08:12:10  <Bahhumbug> Welcome to the wonderful world of FOSS projects.
2013-06-11T08:13:03  <eryc> hah
2013-06-11T08:15:43  <Bahhumbug> "Using this products signifies your acknowledgement of and consent to our terms of usage.  First, there is no official support.  Secondly any support is provided on an 'as is' basis by volunteers.  Third, support is a priviledge, not a right - please bear this in mind when asking for assistance."
2013-06-11T08:16:05  <Bahhumbug> (Spell privilege right, perhaps)
2013-06-11T08:16:58  <Evilpig> I just paused this video at possibly the funniest point I could have.  Now to screenshot this gold for later
2013-06-11T08:18:24  <Evilpig> http://i.imgur.com/veWbz3b.png
2013-06-11T09:43:23  * polerin sighs
2013-06-11T09:43:53  <polerin> man y'all just totally got the groupthink down about some shit.
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2013-06-11T09:44:24  <brimstone> ragejoin
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2013-06-11T10:29:45  <jim_ec2> lol ragejoin
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2013-06-11T12:10:22  <Dagmar> #@$@$#
2013-06-11T12:10:31  <Dagmar> Fucking assholes
2013-06-11T12:10:51  <Dagmar> "Please set X up an account on box os-blahblah"
2013-06-11T12:11:01  <Dagmar> "os-blahblah doesn't exist.  Tell me what it's real name is."
2013-06-11T12:11:10  <Dagmar> "You're a linux admin, you're supposed to know these things."
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2013-06-11T12:13:56  <Dagmar> I'm tempted to be a giant dick and spin up a new VM named what they're specifying, give the engineer an account on that, and just let those fuckers wonder where the hell the application went.
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2013-06-11T13:17:04  <Dagmar> I'm so tempted to start fucking with Phil Valentine again
2013-06-11T13:17:28  <Dagmar> According to my coworkers he spent most of his show today trying to undermine the credibility of the NSA leaker
2013-06-11T13:18:29  <Dagmar> Talking about how the guy was a high school dropout, talking about how much he was making as a consultant for that company, etc etc
2013-06-11T13:21:15  <Dagmar> What a fucking shill
2013-06-11T13:30:54  <Corydon76-work> Dagmar:  I actually would not be surprised to learn, in about 30 days or so, that Snowden does not exist, that all of his so-called records were inserted there by a Defense contractor.
2013-06-11T13:31:22  <Corydon76-work> and that his picture is a composite image
2013-06-11T13:32:39  <Corydon76-work> I note with appropriate interest that suddenly, our expected national conversation about Defense spending and debt limit has all but evaporated, replaced by a series of manufactured scandals.
2013-06-11T13:33:52  <Corydon76-work> I'm not suggesting I know who is behind it all, just that I think that the recent rise in non-scandals are interesting.
2013-06-11T13:34:19  <Dickie> the Jews
2013-06-11T13:34:22  <Dickie> You're welcome.
2013-06-11T13:35:35  <Corydon76-work> I was thinking more along the lines of either the administration, knowing that the scandals aren't likely to play for keeps in a non-election year, or the Congressional Republicans, who are desperate to find something they can tar the President with.
2013-06-11T13:36:06  <RangerZ> FYI, if anyone wants a PS4, better go reserve it now
2013-06-11T13:36:13  <RangerZ> its already running out
2013-06-11T13:36:26  <Corydon76-work> Who knows, might even be a private party with stakes in the federal budget, who doesn't want their contract to get cut
2013-06-11T13:37:04  <RangerZ> Dagmar: related to that topic... if you though ingress was designed to fuck with you ... Watch Dogs is going to have a tablet companion app that will let you "hack" into helicopters, police radios, cause power outages...etc...
2013-06-11T13:37:35  <RangerZ> or... Corydon76-work... a loner with a conscience decided that would he could do was unconscionable
2013-06-11T13:37:59  <Corydon76-work> RangerZ: that only explains one scandal, not this stream of continuous ones
2013-06-11T13:38:24  <RangerZ> stream? he accounts for 2 of them himself
2013-06-11T13:38:29  <RangerZ> and others were IG reports
2013-06-11T13:38:38  <Corydon76-work> RangerZ: you always have to ask "Why now?" when it comes to a whistleblower.  What precipitated this change?
2013-06-11T13:38:49  <RangerZ> he got a new job
2013-06-11T13:38:53  <RangerZ> and was hired 3 months ago
2013-06-11T13:39:38  <Corydon76-work> So it was only bad when he discovered a private Defense contractor had access to the data?  It wasn't bad that the CIA had access to it?
2013-06-11T13:42:44  <RangerZ> maybe, i don't know where he was stationed when he worked for the NSA(or was it CIA)
2013-06-11T13:43:12  <RangerZ> different stations apparently give more power to different levels
2013-06-11T13:43:13  <Corydon76-work> This is not even something new that the Obama administration is doing.  The current information is that this is a long-running program, one that might extend back to the Bush administration.
2013-06-11T13:43:24  <RangerZ> yeah
2013-06-11T13:43:28  <RangerZ> now it is just legal
2013-06-11T13:44:11  <Corydon76-work> Of course it is.  The Patriot Act made it legal, with "oversight" from the FISA court.
2013-06-11T13:44:30  <RangerZ> which is why internal whistleblowing would never have worked, since they don't consider morals or 'what is right' just legal
2013-06-11T13:45:25  <Corydon76-work> I don't disagree with you on that point.
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2013-06-11T13:57:49  <Dagmar> Furhter back than Bush
2013-06-11T13:59:01  <Corydon76-work> Can't be further back than Bush.  Patriot Act was only passed in response to the terrorist attack on 9/11/2001.
2013-06-11T14:05:40  <Dagmar> Like I said last night, this has been going on since the mid to late 90's.
2013-06-11T14:05:55  <Dagmar> It started with Echelon.
2013-06-11T14:06:09  <Dagmar> None of that stuff has ever gone away.  It just changes hands every so often.
2013-06-11T14:07:05  <Dagmar> By the time people who would want it torn down have managed to find out about the _program_ responsible, the department in charge of the program has handed off the infrastructure to someone else so they can say "No, we scrapped that program"
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2013-06-11T14:20:06  <timoguin_> anyone here know any local lawyers who will handle landlord suits?
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2013-06-11T14:55:53  <Synx|hm> so...
2013-06-11T14:56:15  <Synx|hm> is it time to drop my gmail account and ditch my android phone?
2013-06-11T14:56:54  <Synx|hm> stop using skype and use gnupg for all my communication
2013-06-11T14:57:10  <Synx|hm> or does it not matter because im using Windows (_NSAKEY)
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2013-06-11T15:07:52  <Synx|hm> oh and i guess its time to drop chrome :(
2013-06-11T15:08:07  <Synx|hm> wasn't really happy with out noscript anyways
2013-06-11T15:09:49  <Synx|hm> and the most important thing, why the fuck can i not surf porn with tls
2013-06-11T15:13:05  <Corydon76-work> Drop it in favor of what, though?
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2013-06-11T15:14:01  <Corydon76-work> It's like saying you're going to stop eating high fructose corn syrup and save money in the process...
2013-06-11T15:14:43  <Corydon76-work> Those goals are pretty much exclusive to one another.  You could give up Chrome and stop browsing the web, I suppose...
2013-06-11T15:17:12  <Synx|hm> ya
2013-06-11T15:18:13  <Synx|hm> seriously though, i think im going to drop skype, drop chrome, only chat on face book if its PGP or just stupid posts with famil, and consider dropping gmail
2013-06-11T15:18:37  <Synx|hm> more important, however, is the TLS for porn thing, any ideas?
2013-06-11T15:19:06  <Synx|hm> oh
2013-06-11T15:19:19  <Synx|hm> and i need to get off googles dns servers!! and starting using duckduckgo as well
2013-06-11T15:20:35  <aestetix> yes
2013-06-11T15:20:39  <aestetix> 4.2.2.2 is still super reliable
2013-06-11T15:20:45  <aestetix> I assume you're using 8.8.8.8
2013-06-11T15:21:14  <Synx|hm> ya im on 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
2013-06-11T15:23:35  <aestetix> Dagmar: the last week has been a bunch of "yep told you so"
2013-06-11T15:25:01  <Synx|hm> btw i need a good exchange (activesync) client for android, the built in one sucks balls and im tired of having to keep hacking it each time i update the OS so my domain admins dont force PIN usage on my phone
2013-06-11T15:30:55  <Synx|hm> so Level 3 runs 4.2.2.2
2013-06-11T15:33:45  <aestetix> so yeah
2013-06-11T15:34:00  <aestetix> yesterday, two coworkers were asking someone whether a certain bar cards or not
2013-06-11T15:34:09  <Synx|hm> ya im not really sure where i was going there
2013-06-11T15:34:10  <aestetix> they were planning to go to some tech event and hoping they could get in
2013-06-11T15:34:11  <Dagmar> Why the fuck would you "surf porn with TLS"?
2013-06-11T15:34:38  <Dagmar> You realize that's just a different mechanism for initializing an encrypted connection and is functionally identical to SSL, right?
2013-06-11T15:34:44  <Synx|hm> so my isp isn't keeping track of the porn sites i visit
2013-06-11T15:35:33  <Synx|hm> i should have just said security, i ment tls more as any type of transport security and not specifically the TLS standard
2013-06-11T15:36:15  <Synx|hm> last time i tried https://tube8.com i didn't get anywhere
2013-06-11T15:36:53  <Synx|hm> and pornhub redirects back to non secure
2013-06-11T15:37:32  <Synx|hm> nice... http://trollthensa.com/
2013-06-11T15:37:33  <GateKeeper> Title: OPERATION TROLL THE NSA (at trollthensa.com)
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2013-06-11T15:41:02  <Corydon76-work> Synx:  are you out of the military yet?
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2013-06-11T15:42:37  <Synx|hm> umm, kinda
2013-06-11T15:43:54  <Corydon76-work> Given that the military is able to put anything into your body that they want (seriously, read your recruitment contract), the idea that you're going to be able to escape the surveillance state is laughable, at best.
2013-06-11T15:44:56  <Synx|hm> oh ya i gave up on that long ago, just would prefer to keep my private life as private as possible until they decide they want to know more and pull the chip out of my ass i like to call my 'assram'
2013-06-11T15:45:19  <Synx|hm> im in the reserves now though so they get less and less of my time these days
2013-06-11T15:46:35  <Corydon76-work> There's always the reverse of that... instead of trying to ensure they don't know about your life, gross them out to the fullest extent possible, so they don't want to ever even LOOK.
2013-06-11T15:46:36  <Synx|hm> I did get an email last week on my .mil acct saying basically... "DO NOT even consider looking at anything of the leaked documents, it is classified and you will be punished as such for the security violation of viewing classified documents in the wrong environment'
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2013-06-11T15:47:19  <Synx|hm> obviously it was worded in a more professional manner, but that was the basic idea
2013-06-11T15:47:49  <Synx|hm> maybe i should send that trollthensa email from my .mil account
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2013-06-11T15:52:43  <aestetix> Synx|hm: that makes a very interesting free speech discussion
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2013-06-11T16:00:19  <Corydon76-work> aestetix: Persons enlisted in the military do not have free speech.  Again, it's in the recruitment contract.
2013-06-11T16:00:57  <Synx|hm> i think this is a good time to bring something up about the military
2013-06-11T16:01:03  <Synx|hm> first off im an officer
2013-06-11T16:02:00  <aestetix> Corydon76-work: what about contractors?
2013-06-11T16:02:09  <Synx|hm> the officer oath differs slightly from the elisted
2013-06-11T16:02:14  <Synx|hm> I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
2013-06-11T16:02:51  <Corydon76-work> I'm not talking about an oath; I'm talking about your employment contract with the the military.
2013-06-11T16:03:00  <Synx|hm> That is the officer oath of office, notice the complete lack of POTUS/people apointed etc, it simply states defend the constitution
2013-06-11T16:03:08  <Synx|hm> understood, just figured it would be good to bring up
2013-06-11T16:03:30  <Synx|hm> as the oath really over rules everything, at least in spirit
2013-06-11T16:04:07  <Corydon76-work> The oath is the spirit of it.  The contract spells everything out legally.
2013-06-11T16:04:43  <Synx|hm> heres the enlisted oath for ref
2013-06-11T16:04:47  <Synx|hm> "I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
2013-06-11T16:04:48  <Corydon76-work> You can occasionally sway a jury by referring to the oath, where the oath and contract disagree.
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2013-06-11T16:05:33  <Corydon76-work> But you'll get your ass hauled in front of the jury in the first place for violating the contract, not the oath.
2013-06-11T16:05:55  <Synx|hm> i see your what you mean now, sure and ive signed all sorts of crazy documents about classified data and all kinda of shit, UCMJ and whatnot
2013-06-11T16:06:30  <Corydon76-work> The oath is about what's right.  The contract is about what's legal.
2013-06-11T16:07:12  <Synx|hm> but at least from my perspective (which wont save in the hair off my ass in court) i will do everything in my power to uphold the constitution even if that means violating law, violating UCMJ, violating contracts, and suffering the consequences of those leagal binding documents
2013-06-11T16:07:38  <Synx|hm> and i think, at least from my limited view, a good portion of the military feels the same
2013-06-11T16:07:55  <Corydon76-work> I hear you, but at the same time, at least in theory, there's no difference between the provisions of the oath and the provisions of the contract.
2013-06-11T16:07:58  <aestetix> Corydon76-work: that reminds me a bit about the discussion about the difference between legal and Constitutional
2013-06-11T16:08:33  <Synx|hm> ya, this would make a really great dialog at a con
2013-06-11T16:08:47  <Corydon76-work> aestetix: and Sensenbrenner's BS argument
2013-06-11T16:10:07  <Corydon76-work> Sensenbrenner argued that the Obama administration's interpretation of the Patriot Act was not in the spirit of the law (even though it likely was within the letter).
2013-06-11T16:10:56  <Synx|hm> i need aspell for irssi, its quite embarassing as an not 20something adult that i cannot spell :( i should really have gotten tested for dyslexia as a teen
2013-06-11T16:11:04  <Corydon76-work> which is complete hogwash anyway.  Sensenbrenner would allow anything to occur under the Patriot Act, if it were a Republican doing it, whereas he'll oppose it if it's done by a Democrat.
2013-06-11T16:11:53  <Synx|hm> should also probably study sentance structure
2013-06-11T16:12:07  <Corydon76-work> Synx:  I turn off spellcheckers by and large.  This one has it, and it gets SO MUCH wrong.
2013-06-11T16:12:30  <Corydon76-work> It's Quassel IRC, runs under KDE.
2013-06-11T16:13:32  <Corydon76-work> I also hate that it stores its logs in an SQL database, which means you can't grep the logs from the command line
2013-06-11T16:14:02  <Synx|hm> oh hrm, never thought about spell checkers as a potential security risk in that regard
2013-06-11T16:14:05  <jim_ec2> who needs grep when you can where like :)
2013-06-11T16:18:11  <Corydon76-work> jim_ec2: that assumes you understand the log format
2013-06-11T16:18:55  <jim_ec2> true
2013-06-11T16:24:39  <Synx|hm> so first step, back on Firefox and just installed jitsi to replace skype
2013-06-11T16:24:53  <Synx|hm> now to get the wife on jitsi
2013-06-11T16:25:12  <Synx|hm> so the nsa doesnt watch me sex up my wife on skype
2013-06-11T16:26:08  <Corydon76-work> But of course, you're going to let the rest of us watch, right?
2013-06-11T16:26:26  <Synx|hm> duh, i thought that was a given
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2013-06-11T17:03:48  <aestetix> Corydon76-work: how is the TSA on the subway legal?
2013-06-11T17:03:56  <aestetix> Apparently they are on the Boston subway as well as NY now
2013-06-11T17:04:14  <Corydon76-work> aestetix: it's defined as mass-transit
2013-06-11T17:05:14  <aestetix> So it does not have to be interstate?
2013-06-11T17:05:34  <aestetix> My apparently wrong impression was that the TSA had theoretical authorty in airports because its' interstate traffic
2013-06-11T17:05:45  <Corydon76-work> The NY subway system is already interstate.
2013-06-11T17:06:04  <Corydon76-work> Part of the system extends into New Jersey
2013-06-11T17:06:19  <aestetix> That's the NJTT though, which is arguably a different system.
2013-06-11T17:06:27  <oddball> aestetix: I think the answer is "because fuck you, that's why."
2013-06-11T17:06:30  <Corydon76-work> It's why it had to operate under Port Authority
2013-06-11T17:06:37  <aestetix> Ohhh.
2013-06-11T17:06:44  <aestetix> God that's fucked up.
2013-06-11T17:07:07  <oddball> Same as the TSA "working with" TN state troopers and searching tractor trailers.
2013-06-11T17:07:27  <aestetix> oddball: are they doing that only on highways?
2013-06-11T17:07:34  <aestetix> Which I imagine they can do because the highways are interstate
2013-06-11T17:07:34  <oddball> yes
2013-06-11T17:08:03  <oddball> Oh, and apparently the TSA was at the Daytona 500 this year... and things were all sorts of fucked up.
2013-06-11T17:08:29  <aestetix> Something tells me the daytona does not sit on the border between two states.
2013-06-11T17:09:06  <oddball> As in miles of cars backed up due to inspections before being allowed into the venue.
2013-06-11T17:09:42  <aestetix> Oh wait. Does an interstate highway lead to the daytona?
2013-06-11T17:10:18  <oddball> Well... probably, but it does lead into the speedway where the checkpoint was.
2013-06-11T17:10:28  <oddball> s/does/doesn't
2013-06-11T17:12:33  <oddball> aestetix: And most of the defense I've heard about the power of the TSA is that "you don't have to fly," and "do you want the terrorists to win?"
2013-06-11T17:14:10  <oddball> I usually reply to the latter with "between the TSA, cops taking blood samples at roadblocks, and the government watching everything I do electronicly, what makes you say the terrorists haven't already won?"
2013-06-11T17:14:41  <aestetix> takking blood samples?
2013-06-11T17:15:33  <Corydon76-work> They can ask whatever they like, but you don't have to give it to them.
2013-06-11T17:15:42  <oddball> aestetix: yep
2013-06-11T17:15:42  <aestetix> well sure
2013-06-11T17:15:49  <aestetix> oddball: that sounds incredibly dangerous
2013-06-11T17:16:02  <aestetix> The only people I ever let handle blood around me are medical professionals
2013-06-11T17:16:11  <aestetix> I am guessing that the TSA are not
2013-06-11T17:16:53  <oddball> Corydon76-work: Maybe yes, maybe no.  In many cases it's been at sobriety check points, and it's an admission of guilt to refuse a sobriety check (including TN).
2013-06-11T17:17:01  <Corydon76-work> and they'd probably frown on you dumping a bucket of pig's blood on their uniform.
2013-06-11T17:17:09  <aestetix> oddball: uhhhh
2013-06-11T17:17:26  <Corydon76-work> oddball: actually, it's not an admission of guilt
2013-06-11T17:17:42  <Corydon76-work> However, you forfeit your driver's license at that point.
2013-06-11T17:18:08  <oddball> Sorry... you just get hit with a charge that is in equal punishment to a DUI.
2013-06-11T17:18:27  <Corydon76-work> Implied consent
2013-06-11T17:19:00  <Corydon76-work> What's the charge?
2013-06-11T17:19:12  <oddball> Damnit.. now I have to look it up.
2013-06-11T17:21:31  <oddball> Sorry, you're correct.  Refusing the test is going against "implied consent" and you lose your license for x number of years depending on various circumstances, but no jail time.
2013-06-11T17:21:55  <Corydon76-work> http://www.tndui.com/implied-consent-violation.php
2013-06-11T17:21:56  <GateKeeper> Title: Knoxville Implied Consent Violation Attorney | Knoxville Implied Consent Lawyer | Implied Consent Violation Attorney Tennessee (at www.tndui.com)
2013-06-11T17:23:48  <oddball> Of course, there have been cases where the guy refused to do the test, so the cop hit him with the suspended licence and charged him with DUI due to "the officer's observations" anyways... and then it's your word against his in court.
2013-06-11T17:24:57  <Corydon76-work> I wonder if there have been any convictions on that, though
2013-06-11T17:25:36  <oddball> Probably, but I'd have to do some serious research to prove that.
2013-06-11T17:26:13  <Corydon76-work> The cop can charge you with assassinating JFK, if he likes, even though it's unlikely to go to court
2013-06-11T17:26:42  <oddball> Especially considering 1. the attitude towards alcohol in many of the rural counties, and 2. it doesn't cross the minds of many people that a cop might be shady.
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2013-06-11T17:27:57  <Corydon76-work> It crosses most people's minds, I suspect, but when in the bright lights of the courtroom, when a police officer looks clean and honest, most people won't give it a second thought.
2013-06-11T17:28:03  <oddball> Yeah... but that's something that people are expecting hard evidence for.  The core evidence of most DUI charges is the road side test... which basically boils down to "does the cop think you're drunk."
2013-06-11T17:29:10  <oddball> And, frankly, I've been told by cops that you have to perform spectacularly for them to change their minds once they ask you to do the roadside test.
2013-06-11T17:29:24  <Corydon76-work> It's also why it's best not to open your window more than a crack.  If the window is only open wide enough to show a license but not wide enough for him to smell your breath, then there's no reasonable suspicion.
2013-06-11T17:31:32  <Corydon76-work> What's probably most ironic is the people who are most likely to kick up a civil liberties fuss are also the people least likely to drink and drive, so it turns out not to be a problem.
2013-06-11T17:31:35  <oddball> And yes... I've been stopped and asked to do the roadside test before.  It happened that I was sober and hadn't had a drink for two weeks, and was near the end of my first stent through TKD.  I still had some difficulty with what the guy was asking me to do since it was complicated balance stuff and he specifically told me to do it on uneven pavement.
2013-06-11T17:32:08  <oddball> (I specifically asked if I could do it on the nice flat part a foot away, and he told me no.)
2013-06-11T17:32:42  <Corydon76-work> Oh, then in other words, the cop was being an asshole.
2013-06-11T17:33:16  <oddball> yes
2013-06-11T17:34:21  <oddball> Oh, and I've been told by lawyers that their favorite way of getting their clients out of DUI charges is to ask the officer to perform the road test in court.  Half the time the cop is falling down midway through.
2013-06-11T17:34:38  <Corydon76-work> That's actually kind of funny
2013-06-11T17:35:10  <oddball> Yes, it is... except for the fact that that means that the system is rigged to hit people that haven't done anything wrong.
2013-06-11T17:37:23  <Corydon76-work> Makes you wish cellphone cameras weren't banned in the courtroom... Put a few cops doing their sobriety dance in court on Youtube, and the embarrassment factor alone would put an end to the practice.
2013-06-11T17:38:45  <oddball> Yeah... unfortunately some dipshits decided to use them to take pictures of the juries to threaten later.
2013-06-11T17:43:41  <aestetix> This should be fun
2013-06-11T17:43:46  <aestetix> I might be meeting Daniel Ellsberg tonight
2013-06-11T17:43:55  <aestetix> I am wearing a t-shirt of Richard Nixon to the event
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2013-06-11T19:37:59  <Synx|hm> assgasket
2013-06-11T19:55:00  <Synx|hm> wonder if the rest of the PRISM slides will get released
2013-06-11T19:55:13  <Synx|hm> im guessing no
2013-06-11T20:01:46  <aestetix> I will also be interested to see
2013-06-11T20:01:59  <aestetix> Although it sounds like Greenwald has more documents than just that slideshow
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2013-06-11T20:21:57  <Synx|hm> ya, that and from what ive ready greenwald really doesn't want to release the rest of the slide deck as it may be very damaging
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2013-06-11T21:02:09  <RangerZ> APB: anyone know a secretarial job for a friend of mine in/near Nashville?  she needs to quit her retail job, too little pay for too many creepers...
2013-06-11T21:02:54  <RangerZ> or anything that doesn't need a lot of experience (has retail & serving exp.)
2013-06-11T21:10:05  <eryc> is she hot?
2013-06-11T21:12:53  <Evilpig> Dagmar: ping
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2013-06-11T21:23:52  <Synx|hm> so... im wondering what kinds of BW tier 1 providers are seeing across their backbones
2013-06-11T21:24:51  <Synx|hm> if the NSA is using NarusInsight devices to tap fiber at around 10Gbps i wonder how many devices and how they are splitting up traffic
2013-06-11T21:25:50  <Synx|hm> and what crazy device are they using for data enrichment/correlation if packets could take any number of routes they have to correlate the data and mediate it into one meld somehow
2013-06-11T21:27:26  <Synx|hm> more over, what is the NSA really using as im guessing their current generation of devices is well above 10Gbps capture
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2013-06-11T21:32:27  <Synx|hm> also in regards to SSL traffic, would they (NSA) only need access to the target companys private keys to decrypt?
2013-06-11T21:32:44  <Dagmar> Pretty much
2013-06-11T21:32:56  <Dagmar> I'm reasonably sure that's the whole reason they're kept "private".
2013-06-11T21:33:01  <Synx|hm> not exactly sure on the specifics of SSL, is it a static public key type setup, or are dynamic keys generated
2013-06-11T21:33:13  <Dagmar> The real thing I'm waiting to see is the MAJORLY scary announcements
2013-06-11T21:34:15  <Synx|hm> im guessing the rest of that PRISM ppt is CRAZY scary with bits of true national security shit like, hey we stopped this from happened on this date buy intercepting this and this
2013-06-11T21:34:26  <Synx|hm> s/buy/by
2013-06-11T21:35:47  <Synx|hm> i knew it was possible they were intercepting all this traffic, and we've known about NSL's and what not, but i had not guessed they had complete realtime access to the like of google/microsoft
2013-06-11T21:36:14  <Synx|hm> but i guess in the 90's when we found out about _NSAKEY it should have been obvious all corperations where in bed with the NSA
2013-06-11T21:36:38  <Synx|hm> and i've had the feeling lately at least in regard to China that all hardware mfging has backdoors for them
2013-06-11T21:36:42  <Dagmar> If you want to see a freakout...  Wait until people start asking whether or not the NSA had access to VErisign.
2013-06-11T21:36:51  <Dagmar> People will lose their shit.
2013-06-11T21:37:08  <Synx|hm> haha true, but lets put it this way
2013-06-11T21:37:37  <Synx|hm> if they have backdoor access to operating systems then they forsure have access to what ever the fuck they want
2013-06-11T21:37:39  <Dagmar> There is actually fairly serious rumblings about whether or not US firms can be trusted with data from companies in other countries right now
2013-06-11T21:38:27  <Synx|hm> honestly thats kinda silly, you think i trust huawie and all the shit they make
2013-06-11T21:38:28  <Synx|hm> FUCK NO
2013-06-11T21:38:44  <eryc> how about ericcson
2013-06-11T21:38:45  <Synx|hm> so why should we be any different
2013-06-11T21:39:06  <eryc> using china is a poor example
2013-06-11T21:39:08  <Dagmar> There is a large amount of difference between knowing you accepted the risk of storing data in a US provider's cloud, and thinking the crypto keys by which you handle all your private transactions may be in the hands of a foreign government agency whose own citizens think are being sketchy
2013-06-11T21:39:28  <Synx|hm> same, honestly from a national security point of view i thing we need to be mfging all our own comm equipemnt down to the silicon
2013-06-11T21:39:48  <eryc> why stop at the silicon
2013-06-11T21:39:53  <eryc> we should make the atoms too
2013-06-11T21:40:07  <Synx|hm> ok you're tolling me now
2013-06-11T21:40:26  <Evilpig> we've already had cases of china slipping shit into our chips.
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2013-06-11T21:42:12  <Synx|hm> Dagmar: agreed, but i think its a logical extension, the NSA or their buddys have to have access into OS's (windows, OSX, probably most *nix distros), and because of that they could very likely have access to anybodys private keys
2013-06-11T21:42:31  <Dagmar> Sure it's a logical extention, but normal people don't think
2013-06-11T21:42:39  <Synx|hm> true
2013-06-11T21:42:40  <Dagmar> ...or at least, they don't think that far ahead.
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2013-06-11T21:42:58  <Synx|hm> i was pondering on a flight the other night how one might go about getting "complete secure"
2013-06-11T21:43:01  <Synx|hm> i gave up
2013-06-11T21:43:01  <Dagmar> We *KNOW* the FBI have manchurian certificates for pushing bogus updates into people's machines
2013-06-11T21:43:16  <Dagmar> From that, it's rather likely other agencies got certs from the FBI
2013-06-11T21:43:35  <Synx|hm> oh i didn't know that was fact, but i guess it makes sense
2013-06-11T21:43:42  <Dagmar> ...but regular people do not think that far along, because they basically don't know how any of this shit works anyway
2013-06-11T21:43:52  <Dagmar> Synx|hm: See also D.I.R.T.
2013-06-11T21:44:13  <Synx|hm> ya thats half the problem, not enough people smart enough on the tech to connect all the dots
2013-06-11T21:44:46  <Dagmar> http://cryptome.org/dirty-lantern.htm
2013-06-11T21:44:47  <Synx|hm> oh so here is something that has been bugging me for a while
2013-06-11T21:44:48  <GateKeeper> Title: DIRT - Magic Lantern Firm Barred from Gov Contracts (at cryptome.org)
2013-06-11T21:44:54  <Evilpig> ugh  http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tv/my-teen-is-pregnant-and-so-am-i-like-mother-like-daughter/EP017355400001?aid=zap2it
2013-06-11T21:44:55  <GateKeeper> Title: My Teen Is Pregnant and So Am I Season 1 Episode 01 - Like Mother, Like Daughter - Zap2it TV Listings (at tvlistings.zap2it.com)
2013-06-11T21:44:57  <Dagmar> http://cryptome.org/fbi-dirt.htm
2013-06-11T21:44:58  <GateKeeper> Title: Anti-Virus Makers and FBI Dirty Secrets (at cryptome.org)
2013-06-11T21:46:00  <Synx|hm> virus scanners, i dont even trust them these days, whos to say Symantec isn't filtering out specific root kits etc from thier searches
2013-06-11T21:46:53  <Dagmar> http://cryptome.org/riaa-secret.htm
2013-06-11T21:46:54  <GateKeeper> Title: Secret RIAA Meeting (at cryptome.org)
2013-06-11T21:47:05  <Dagmar> Synx|hm: Programs like DIRT are not possible *without* such whitelisting in place
2013-06-11T21:47:34  <Dagmar> Shit like this is why companies were recently claiming they needed to be able to take an "active defense" against infringers
2013-06-11T21:47:48  <Dagmar> They want to stop worrying about what happens if they get caught engaging in crime
2013-06-11T21:48:17  <Dagmar> ...and using tools that, if it were publicly known they were using, would mean screaming you could hear from fucking low earth orbit
2013-06-11T21:48:39  <Synx|hm> i wonder why more of this shit doesn't get leaked
2013-06-11T21:48:46  <Dagmar> Because it's fucking terrifying
2013-06-11T21:48:54  <Dagmar> People wouldn't sleep at nigh
2013-06-11T21:48:55  <Dagmar> t
2013-06-11T21:49:17  <Synx|hm> though i guess if i were in a position to know this stuff i would be seriously afraid for my wellbeing if i considered leaking something
2013-06-11T21:49:27  <Dagmar> You basically just have to cross your fingers and hope they don't really want to try to insert a bogus WindowsUpdate into your shit
2013-06-11T21:49:46  <Synx|hm> do you think firewalls are a good defense to things like this?
2013-06-11T21:50:03  <Dagmar> Not when the automatic update system goes right through it, no
2013-06-11T21:50:12  <Synx|hm> if i cant protect myself at the OS level, i can lock the fuck down at the outside work via unix firewall or something
2013-06-11T21:50:32  <Dagmar> Yes and then you get to manually scrutinize each and every update that comes down the pipe, or be at risk
2013-06-11T21:50:39  <Synx|hm> true
2013-06-11T21:50:51  <Dagmar> If you update, you might install something that's not in your best interest
2013-06-11T21:51:00  <Synx|hm> i've looked at my firewall logs long enough to say, fuck it id be here all year trying to figure what all this shit is
2013-06-11T21:51:08  <Dagmar> If you don't update, you've now got the risk of known vulnerabilities staring you in the face
2013-06-11T21:51:41  <Synx|hm> im still reading about DIRT, so is this a type of MS update kinda thing where you find the target, then somehow setup so that the next time they pull and OS update they get rooted?
2013-06-11T21:52:34  <Dagmar> As far as I know it included that capability then
2013-06-11T21:52:47  <Dagmar> Note that that's _ten years ago_
2013-06-11T21:52:57  <Synx|hm> you know the one thing i dont quite get about all this so far is... the GOV/Military must be emplyoing some seriously talanated hackers/crackers/whatever, and from what ive seen as a whole our community doesn't really put up with a lot of bullshit
2013-06-11T21:53:00  <Dagmar> ...and every so often I hear the FBI admitting to still having it
2013-06-11T21:53:41  <Dagmar> All you'd need is a little capitulation from Microsoft, and you could quietly push updates to someone on a targeted basis
2013-06-11T21:53:44  <Synx|hm> oh im sure its way more advanced now, honestly it would take much to be able to just spoof update servers on a target and if you've got MS's private keys just put what ever the fuck you want on their box that way
2013-06-11T21:53:58  <Synx|hm> s/would/wouldn't
2013-06-11T21:53:59  <Dagmar> ...or the ability to spoof DNS and the proper keys that the OS will trust
2013-06-11T21:54:05  <Synx|hm> ya
2013-06-11T21:54:26  <Dagmar> I don't start to get really upset about this stuff until it's something that I could probably do myself trivially
2013-06-11T21:54:33  <Synx|hm> man the more and more we discuss this the more scary it gets
2013-06-11T21:54:44  <Bahhumbug> There is no security.
2013-06-11T21:54:45  <Dagmar> Yes, which is why I've been watching the news real careful
2013-06-11T21:54:49  <Bahhumbug> There, now you can sleep better at night.
2013-06-11T21:55:17  <eryc> it will be interesting to see the security companies response
2013-06-11T21:55:20  <Synx|hm> we'll assuming they have the private keys, which has to be assumed or they've got some way ahead of the industry (unlikely) advanced processing power to crack shit, any one of us could do this stuff
2013-06-11T21:55:43  <eryc> they have the advanced processing
2013-06-11T21:56:13  <Synx|hm> i just find it hard to believe that ourside research is that far behind the NSA/military
2013-06-11T21:56:25  <eryc> they can afford millions of custom build fpgas and asics
2013-06-11T21:56:40  <eryc> and pay the researchers to design them
2013-06-11T21:57:01  <Synx|hm> thats true but there is no way they can crack the encryption we are doing these days on the fly for all the traffic hitting the line
2013-06-11T21:57:21  <eryc> they just need to record it on backblaze boxes
2013-06-11T21:57:29  <Synx|hm> and for them to be able to collect like they are (assuming the PRISM docs) they have to be doing something else
2013-06-11T21:58:06  <eryc> i can't help but be amused by how excited everyone is over this
2013-06-11T21:58:10  <Synx|hm> perhaps they just get all the meta data/raw media they can unencrypted and use court order for everthing else from the host themselves
2013-06-11T21:58:16  <Bahhumbug> eryc: I agree.
2013-06-11T21:58:16  <eryc> i thought this was well-known info
2013-06-11T21:58:26  <Bahhumbug> This should come as no surprise to anyone in the IT sector.
2013-06-11T21:58:38  <Bahhumbug> And they are the ones screaming the loudest.
2013-06-11T21:58:39  <Synx|hm> ya, but i really dont think the general public really cared enough because they didn't see how it affected them
2013-06-11T21:58:47  <Bahhumbug> They still don't.
2013-06-11T21:58:52  <Bahhumbug> The general public are all sheep.
2013-06-11T21:59:00  <Synx|hm> now that everyone is starting to realize how much info can be put together on them from google and facebook etc i think its becoming more important to them
2013-06-11T21:59:32  <Bahhumbug> It's going to take something like posting their porn watching habits to get most people to wake up.
2013-06-11T21:59:45  <Synx|hm> additionally you have a new generation of young adults that feel the need to be 'activists' like their parents/grandparents from the 60/70's so they just lashout on anything that hits the media
2013-06-11T22:00:00  <eryc> all they would need to do is crack the private ssl keys for the major providers on that prism slide
2013-06-11T22:00:14  <eryc> then sniff their existing network taps
2013-06-11T22:00:28  <Synx|hm> i guess thats a good point
2013-06-11T22:00:39  <Synx|hm> so perhaps possible
2013-06-11T22:00:55  <eryc> perhaps
2013-06-11T22:01:00  <Synx|hm> i haven't looked at encryption export laws lately but im guessing thats a good indicator of whats easily crackable
2013-06-11T22:01:04  <Synx|hm> plus a factor or two
2013-06-11T22:01:53  <eryc> i thought we stopped caring about that a decade ago
2013-06-11T22:02:23  <Synx|hm> oh that may be the case, its been a long time since i recall even discussing it
2013-06-11T22:02:35  <Synx|hm> maybe that in and of itself should be alarming
2013-06-11T22:03:38  <Synx|hm> i was thinking yesterday when pondering some of the issues at hand, doesn't intel have a chipset now with VNC build into the UEFI code?
2013-06-11T22:04:15  <eryc> i dont know if thats intel but yes you can get motherboards with vnc
2013-06-11T22:04:33  <eryc> its in the bmc chip
2013-06-11T22:04:45  <Synx|hm> well i know IPMI too but i thought it was built into the actual processor
2013-06-11T22:05:05  <Synx|hm> ahh it scalled Intel Core vPro
2013-06-11T22:05:29  <Synx|hm> http://www.realvnc.com/products/viewerplus/
2013-06-11T22:05:42  <Bahhumbug> vnc on a chip.  What could possibly go wrong?
2013-06-11T22:06:02  <Dagmar> most high end motherboards might as well be virtualizing the shit you're actually trying to run
2013-06-11T22:06:07  <Synx|hm> i wonder how many chinese agents are watching my monitor right now, ill bet they are fighting for screen time with the NSA
2013-06-11T22:06:26  <Dagmar> Yeah well, that's the OTHER thing
2013-06-11T22:06:40  <Dagmar> So what if the Chinese actually managed to compromise the NSA's network somewhere
2013-06-11T22:06:58  <Synx|hm> you had better believe anyone in a chatroom with 2600 in the title is at least on some kind of watch list
2013-06-11T22:06:59  <Evilpig> I liked teh xkcd take on that
2013-06-11T22:07:05  <Dagmar> You know, because they've never penetrated Microsoft or Google or anywhere like that
2013-06-11T22:07:15  <Dagmar> ...which had ready-made mechanisms for this
2013-06-11T22:07:25  <Synx|hm> oh no doubt about we are in theirs and they are in ours
2013-06-11T22:07:58  <Synx|hm> i 100% believe that have "VNC for switches" to just remote in and watch traffic if not even mirror it in some non-descript way
2013-06-11T22:08:12  <eryc> heh http://invisiblethingslab.com/press/itl-press-2009-03.pdf
2013-06-11T22:08:33  <Dagmar> Well, it's a matter of now it's MUCH easier to deploy that kind of stuff
2013-06-11T22:08:44  <Synx|hm> nice
2013-06-11T22:08:55  <Dagmar> When a BIOS could only be expected to hold 2Mb, you'd be pushing your luck to insert extra stuff.
2013-06-11T22:09:03  <eryc> rootkit for that vnc bios you mentioned
2013-06-11T22:09:04  <Synx|hm> thanks for entertaining me tonight :) i rather enjoy these chats
2013-06-11T22:09:10  <Dagmar> Now there's a whole operating system to hide shit in and likely a gigabyte or two of space to do it in
2013-06-11T22:10:06  <Synx|hm> eryc: nice haha i guess i should have guessed
2013-06-11T22:10:09  <eryc> ok whoever is ddosing github can you stop now
2013-06-11T22:10:20  <eryc> also bring back tpb
2013-06-11T22:10:30  <Synx|hm> so here's something interesting (or not)
2013-06-11T22:10:31  <Dagmar> NOt enough fatal beatings
2013-06-11T22:12:07  <Synx|hm> the company i work for has a product that can sit on 4 GigE interfaces at once to pull real time data right off the line, its desigend for call center/service provider monitoring so things like voip statistics, call metrics/quality, actual call media to a limited time frame only due to storage limitations, and can then mediate and enrich all that data among many different devices to get a full end to end look at the traffic
2013-06-11T22:13:34  <Synx|hm> i should note i am not aware of any NSA sales orders ;) as im sure they have way more advanced stuff
2013-06-11T22:14:14  <Dagmar> They have an inscrutible budget, massive buildings, and tendency to get people before they're well known
2013-06-11T22:14:23  <Dagmar> They could probably develop such a thing in-house
2013-06-11T22:15:48  <Synx|hm> true
2013-06-11T22:18:02  <Synx|hm> oh shit did DIRT start as Back Orifice
2013-06-11T22:18:03  <Synx|hm> haha
2013-06-11T22:18:21  <Synx|hm> man those were the days, young and stupid and back orifice was everywhere
2013-06-11T22:18:26  <Dagmar> looool https://github.com/goshakkk/nsa_panel
2013-06-11T22:18:27  <GateKeeper> Title: goshakkk/nsa_panel · GitHub (at github.com)
2013-06-11T22:19:06  <Synx|hm> haha
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2013-06-11T22:24:07  <Synx|hm> i wonder, if someone could write some opensource asm and run it on an expansion card as a sort of watch dog, that could monitor vPro and similary bios/uefi hooks and alert on them
2013-06-11T22:24:47  <Dagmar> I like the NSA logo on that page
2013-06-11T22:24:54  <Dagmar> I think I might do a Sprint version
2013-06-11T22:24:58  <Synx|hm> ya i really like the EFF logo
2013-06-11T22:25:08  <Synx|hm> its the red eyes that do it for me
2013-06-11T22:25:19  <Dagmar> It'll look just spiffy on my phone
2013-06-11T22:25:31  <Synx|hm> i changed my ring tone last week to...
2013-06-11T22:25:52  <Synx|hm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z32-eLOoAUU
2013-06-11T22:25:53  <GateKeeper> Title: They Might Be Giants free NSA ringtone (official video) - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
2013-06-11T22:26:34  <Synx|hm> that would go well with your new background
2013-06-11T22:27:22  <Dagmar> wget http://www.theymightbegiants.com/mp3/NSA.mp3
2013-06-11T22:27:23  <Dagmar> :)
2013-06-11T22:27:33  <Evilpig> I should not be getting 2 seconds worth of delay at home right now.  this is ridiculous.   http://blueboy.wilpig.org/mrtg/127.0.0.1_eth0.html
2013-06-11T22:27:34  <GateKeeper> Title: Traffic Analysis for eth0 -- blueboy.wilpig.org (at blueboy.wilpig.org)
2013-06-11T22:27:59  <Dagmar> Well, it takes time to route that shit through Quantico
2013-06-11T22:28:16  <Evilpig> comcrap has been sliding steadily downhill the last two months
2013-06-11T22:30:54  <Synx|hm> steadily routing more and more of your traffic into the NSA suck hole
2013-06-11T22:31:14  <Synx|hm> its a busy hour for them give their capture device a few hours to catch up
2013-06-11T22:31:23  <Evilpig> I'll spin up a vm on my server that does nothing but stream tranny porn all day
2013-06-11T22:32:01  <Synx|hm> yes yes and yes and searches google for bomb making inbetween spooge replenishment time
2013-06-11T22:32:34  <Synx|hm> toss in a few skype calls to the middle east into the mix for extra fun
2013-06-11T22:32:37  <Dagmar> If you'd like I can probably work out how to forge traceroute responses again
2013-06-11T22:32:58  <Synx|hm> oh i remember you showing me that starwars traceroute
2013-06-11T22:33:00  <Dagmar> There used to be a tool for it but I've nto seen it updated since you could just DO it with netfilter
2013-06-11T22:33:01  <Synx|hm> totally forgot about that
2013-06-11T22:33:53  <Synx|hm> it would be funny to setup a fqdn that forged the traceroute to some PRISMesque device
2013-06-11T22:40:31  *** stowbari <stowbari!~Stowbari@cpe-71-79-168-107.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)
2013-06-11T22:53:58  <Synx|hm> holy shit, just reading up on old tempest shit
2013-06-11T22:54:01  <Synx|hm> Spook Hint: If you have a powered up NEXTEL on your belt and you walk within 12 feet of a STU-III in secure mode you have just compromised the classified key.
2013-06-11T22:54:05  <Synx|hm> had no idea it was that bad
2013-06-11T22:54:33  <Synx|hm> btw a STU-III is an old secure phone that encrypted the voice so you could talk classified on the line
2013-06-11T22:56:16  <Dagmar> Sprint logo converted to SVG...
2013-06-11T22:56:46  <Synx|hm> nice put it in the title when you are done so i can dl it tomorrow
2013-06-11T22:56:52  <Synx|hm> im going to bed for now though
2013-06-11T22:57:20  <Synx|hm> thanks for the good chat tonight :)
2013-06-11T22:57:51  <Synx|hm> too many of my friends things im just a crazy tinfoil hat off my meds freak
2013-06-11T22:57:56  <Synx|hm> s/things/think
2013-06-11T22:59:42  <oddball> Oh, I believe RangerZ was asking for the Hypericon schedule.  It's up. http://www.hypericon.us/2013/06/hypericon-8-schedule.html
2013-06-11T22:59:43  <GateKeeper> Title: Hypericon: Hypericon 8 Schedule (at www.hypericon.us)
2013-06-11T23:00:26  <RangerZ> eryc: actually yes, she is
2013-06-11T23:02:18  *** Synx|hm <Synx|hm!~Synx@unaffiliated/synx-hm/x-1623004> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
2013-06-11T23:25:17  <RangerZ> Corydon76-work: http://outlookcolumbus.com/2013/06/community-mobilizes-after-attacks/ something to make you sad today :(
2013-06-11T23:25:18  <GateKeeper> Title: Community Mobilizes After Attacks | outlook columbus (at outlookcolumbus.com)
2013-06-11T23:29:05  <Dagmar>  ht x tp ://blairhouse.homeip.net / ~dagmar /nsa
2013-06-11T23:29:32  <Dagmar> That contains the Sprint logo conversion to SVG
2013-06-11T23:30:49  <Dagmar> Now to see about converting that NSA eagle
2013-06-11T23:32:08  <Dagmar> ARgh.  THey shoudl release source art
2013-06-11T23:32:22  <Dagmar> It would make life easier
2013-06-11T23:32:58  <Dagmar> That shaded background makes this kind of a clusterfuck
2013-06-11T23:33:27  <Dagmar> Imma try a couple other things since it looks like only the two pieces of that image are shaded
2013-06-11T23:35:29  <Dagmar> I suppose this is where it's handy that I have a fast CPU and lots of RAM
2013-06-11T23:41:40  <Dagmar> Yeah, this thing is really pissing off Inkscape
2013-06-11T23:44:18  <Dagmar> I suppose I should check this pizza Im' ordering for polonium, huh/
2013-06-11T23:45:17  <Dagmar> OKay, never perform an undo operation in Inkscape with a image this large
2013-06-11T23:48:37  <Dagmar> I keep losing the red from the eyes
2013-06-11T23:49:08  <Dagmar> Thank goodness it's not illegal to be a smartass, yet.
2013-06-11T23:59:32  *** ZombieChicken <ZombieChicken!~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)