--- Log opened Mon Oct 03 00:00:13 2011
00:00 <@Dagmar> They're not _that_ much better
00:00 <@dasunt> But it makes it resistant to future improvements.
00:00  * dasunt ponders.
00:00 <@dasunt> Space thing?
00:00 <@dasunt> So the format is 10 bits to reduce file size, but (I assume) it's padded to 16 bits for most processors?
00:02 <@Dagmar> Once it's encoded, the bit length doesn't really have to be aligned or something
00:03 <@Dagmar> Worrying about that is the job of the decoding codec
00:03 < rangerz> dasunt: human eye generally isn't that good at telling colors (despite what color-ites) tell you
00:03 < rangerz> on when they can do 'compare/contrast' does it matter
00:04 < rangerz> example http://www.boingboing.net/filesroot/200802081629-1.jpg tiles A and B are the same color, but they don't look it
00:05 < rangerz> so 16bit would probably be overkill for the use H264 videos are used for, etc
00:06 < rangerz> would take up ~6/10ths more space(for video)
00:10 <@dasunt> Is 8 bit overkill?
00:10 <@dasunt> Or 10 bit?
00:21 <@Dagmar> The idea being that you can dump some of that later on during post and editing
00:22 <@Dagmar> More detail in the source material than the finished part is always better
00:22 <@Dagmar> moar
00:26 <@dasunt> Well, more detail, to the point where the files aren't bloated.
00:27 <@dasunt> There must be a tradeoff.
00:39 <@Dagmar> No data collected is "bloat"
00:45 < rangerz> sorry, 16bit is kinda overkill, transition from 8bit to 10bit might be worth it
00:46 <@Dagmar>  THe things compress the video realtime anyway
00:47 < rangerz> but the problem we have is that VP8(and all the VPs before it including VP3 or PV4(which is what either divx/h264 used as a basis)) and all new codecs are just using funny linear algebra tricks to save space, at the cost of computational power
00:48 < rangerz> so switching from 8bit to 10bit messes with all the(what used to be really nice math)
00:52 <@Dagmar> How?
00:52 <@Dagmar> It's now a 10-bit number instead of an 8-bit number.
00:52 <@Dagmar> It's still the same math.
01:10 < rangerz> yes/no
01:10 < rangerz> but you can do 'tricks' with powers of 2 based numbers you can't do as easily, if at all with base 10 numbers
01:10 < rangerz> like bit shifting (assuming endian) to the left one bit to multiply by 2
01:11 < rangerz> only works with binary, not decimal
01:11 < rangerz> same logic i'd assume for the jump from 8 to 10
01:11 < rangerz> and thats a trivial example
01:12 <@Dagmar> Yes, clearly just dividing by two is very essential to wrangling the entropy out of a complex dataset.
01:12 <@Dagmar> o.O
01:13 < rangerz> if nothing else, the encoder/decoder would have to be re-written/synchronized, and that will take a lot of work
01:13 <@Dagmar> Are ya not listning to me
01:14 <@Dagmar> This whole deal of compressing video revolves around crunching numbers to a specific amount of precision
01:14 <@Dagmar> Adding more bits to the values themselves doesn't amount to much more complexity than doing something to a few more decimal places
01:15 <@Dagmar> Once it's encoded, it pretty much ceases to matter
01:15 <@Dagmar> Decompression to less bits of precision than the source is actually a bit easier
01:15 < rangerz> i disagree
01:16 < rangerz> from the decoders standpoint it definatly matters
01:17 < rangerz> if i optimize my matrix algorithm for Xbit and you re-write my code to work on Ybit, you need to redo my optimization
01:18 < rangerz> and thats especially true for spares matrcies (which is what video codecs "do"(thats one of the ways to look at it, there are others))
01:21 < rangerz> hell there was a 48bit machine (forget which one offhand) that was made that many bits b/c the algorithms the guy who designed it, worked really well on that many bits (he was working on a checkers game, 6x8=48, and that was how many spaces were "ahead" of the front 2 lines of your own 'peices"
01:23 < rangerz> so bit size matters (and not just for percision)(which is not how i'd look at it, but more of a "depth" on a 3d graph, but thats just my personal way of viewing it, precision is correct also)
01:24 < rangerz> and damn... now you make me want to take he image processing class at vandy, lol
01:26 < rangerz> well not 'you' but this convo, lol
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07:52 < ware> sdodson: srs luzl
07:56 < ware> Dagmar: she touches it all the time :D
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10:45 <@Dagmar> Looks like you'll have to just go out and buy all new guy stuff then
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13:16 < ware> Evilpig: do you have all of the clone wars seasons?
13:24 <@CRasH180> Love Clonewars
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14:00 < ware> where is dolemite
14:00 < ware> :(
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14:52 <@Sheath> ware is ware
14:56 < ware> all the time
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16:56 <@brimstone> what's this about the 8th being more expensive than the rest?
16:57 <@brimstone> Evilpig: where's the PN block of rooms?
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19:36 <@Evilpig> anyone have access to a vinyl cutter?  or know someone that does?
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19:49 < ware> Evilpig: sky does
19:53 <@Evilpig> I'll buy one before I speak to skydick
19:54 <@Evilpig> I wouldn't mind having a good pen plotter at home and just buy a set of blades and vinyl for it
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20:14 <@Sheath> gg ware
20:14 <@Sheath> pos
20:16 <@Bahhumbug> heh
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 04 00:00:13 2011