--- Log opened Thu Aug 25 00:00:12 2011
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03:24 <@Evilpig> WTF? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gooNX0870yk
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06:53 <@the_hugme> anyone around this morning?
06:53 <@Bahhumbug> No
06:53 <@the_hugme> specifically any networking/linux guru's... I have a question, thought someone here might now...
06:54 <@the_hugme> er... know
06:54 <@the_hugme> ugh... having trouble getting started this morning
06:54 <@Bahhumbug> I've been up writing documentation and dunning letters all night.  I'm far too gone to be of any assistance whatsoever.
06:55 <@the_hugme> ha
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07:34 <@Dagmar> getting ready for work but ask
07:34 <@Dagmar> might take an hour for me to respond but it's somethin
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07:37 <@the_hugme> it's basically "where does the IP live" When I type `ifconfig` is it doing a pull from the memory on the network card, or does it live within the memory allocated by the network stack
07:38 <@the_hugme> the actual IP address itself that is
07:40 <@Dagmar> It lives in kernelspace.  If you're looking to try to bypass ifconfig--that's a bad idea.
07:40 <@the_hugme> no... it has to do with a tcpdump I was running...
07:41 <@the_hugme> on a firewall... specifically a checkpoint
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07:45 <@the_hugme> so If I PXE boot, where is the IP now.. is it pulled by the card then handed off to the kernel
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07:46 <@the_hugme> or does the kernel request a new address
07:47 <@the_hugme> it gets odd especially when you add iSCSI into the mix...
07:48 <@the_hugme> so I PXE boot, it does a tftp before it gets an IP... that kernel I send HAS to live on the network card, the system isn't up yet.
07:49 <@the_hugme> it pulls an address via DHCP, we still have to be on the card... then iSCSI boots the OS... if it switches IP address it will lose it's connection to the ISCSI SAN, dropping the file system for a second and breaking the host, so the kernel would have to retrieve the IP from the card somehow
08:25 <@VampirePenguin> ifconfig is depracated fwiw.... ip addr is the new standard
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08:47 <@brimstone> the_hugme: there's an option to keep the ip or not
08:47 <@brimstone> in some kernels i think
08:47 <@brimstone> i saw something about that
08:48 <@brimstone> i'd bless the initrd with the ability to make the iscsi mount itself
08:48 <@brimstone> then it doesn't matter
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09:02 < Todd> TIL: ifconfig has been deprecated for a while
09:02 < Todd> :/
09:03 <@brimstone> ifconfig will never die
09:03 < Todd> well.. maybe one day
09:03 < Todd> never is a long time
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09:08 <@CRasH180> Bahhumbug: Are you at your computer right now?
09:10 <@Dagmar> ifconfig is not deprecated.  Sorry to bust your bubble.
09:10 <@ware> lul
09:10 < Todd> According to wikipedia "Modern distributions have deprecated if config and route, replacing them with iproute2"
09:11 < Todd> yeah.. I quoted wikipedia.
09:11 <@Dagmar> *scrolling up*
09:11 <@Dagmar> wtf
09:12 <@opticron> orly?
09:12 < eryc> ifconfig is deperecated in opensolaris too
09:12 <@Dagmar> If you are PXE booting, there's no fucking kernel yet.  You're looking to *get* a kernel over tftp via a boot image.
09:12 <@opticron> iproute2 doesn't even exist on my system
09:12 <@opticron> and I'm running bleeding edge debian
09:13 <@CRasH180> shocker
09:13 <@opticron> minivan
09:13 <@ware> ive got a moon rock in my nose!
09:13 <@Dagmar> Being that PXE params like that are generally handed out by DHCP, you may be doing something heinously wrong.
09:14 < eryc> afaik the kernel does another dhcp after pxe tftp's the kernel
09:14 < eryc> i don't believe there is any ip handoff mechanism
09:15 <@Dagmar> That should not cause even the tiniest problem tho
09:15 <@Dagmar> Sane dhcp clients don't drop the damn interface
09:15 <@Dagmar> ...otherwise they would regularly fuck you over during renew operations
09:16 <@Dagmar> I'm trying and failing to see why the fuck someone would expect continuous operations there tho
09:17 <@Dagmar> Todd: Guess what.  You are illiterate.
09:18 <@Dagmar> ...or if someone calls you a fag, do you really believe that makes you a fag?
09:18 < Todd> Who pissed in your corn flakes?
09:18 <@Dagmar> Various distributions can declare ifconfig deprecated all they like.
09:18 <@Dagmar> That doesn't make ifconfig deprecated.
09:19 < Todd> How does quoting something verbatim make me illiterate?
09:19 <@Dagmar> No one pissed in my corn flakes--I am merely using a caustic illustration to deter further dumbassery.
09:19 < Todd> I don't care if ifconfig is deprecated or not honeslty.
09:19 <@Dagmar> Yet you claimed that it was deprecated.
09:19 <@Dagmar> That is untrue.
09:19 < Todd> As do hundreds of other sources.
09:20 <@Dagmar> You also manage to fuck up copypasta and use of the word "verbatim"
09:20 <@Dagmar> Three for three.
09:20 <@Dagmar> Do you wish to continue refusing to think or should the abuse continue?
09:21 < Todd> Eh?
09:21 <@Dagmar> <Todd> According to wikipedia "Modern distributions have deprecated if config and route, replacing them with iproute2"
09:22 < Todd> So I didn't copy/paste..
09:22 <@Dagmar> ...and you didn't even type it correctly.
09:22 <@Dagmar> Real men would have had the balls to say "[...] deprecated [3][citation needed] ifconfig and route, [...]"
09:22 < Todd> Actually.. I didn't even bother to go to the page.
09:23 <@Dagmar> So let's try this again...
09:23 < Todd> Google doesn't show the citation needed marks in their description.
09:23 <@Dagmar> I\f someone calls you a fag, do you really believe that makes you a fag?
09:23 < Todd> I'd rather not. This conversation is silly.
09:23 <@Dagmar> No, it's not.
09:23 < Todd> It totally is.
09:24 <@Dagmar> Just because Arch Linux actually bothered to declare net-tools deprecated does *not* mean that net-tools itself is "deprecated".
09:24 < eryc> everyone must now use network-manager
09:24 < Todd> So Dagmar...
09:25 < Todd> I was wrong. Thank you for enlightening me.
09:25 <@Dagmar> Just fucking learn the difference between a subject and and object and stuf
09:25 < Todd> Could you possibly lighten the fuck up a little bit? Someone can be wrong without being illiterate.
09:26 <@Dagmar> Not with a statement like "ifconfig is deprecated" on the table
09:26 <@Dagmar> It's entirely misleading
09:27 < Todd> Whatever. I love you. Don't kill anyone.
09:27 <@Dagmar> Someone might get the idea that they need to actively avoid it or some shit, which is totally stupid
09:27 < Todd> I did learn to use iproute when I read that months and months ago.
09:27 < Todd> I didn't however research it further as I honestly don't care that much.
09:28 <@Dagmar> You do *see* that the fag thing is a perfect analogy for it tho
09:28 < eryc> ifconfig sucks anyway
09:28 <@Dagmar> Agreed
09:28 < Todd> No I fail to see the fag thing. You busy Saturday night?
09:29 <@Dagmar> I'd personally shoot it in the face if there weren't ancient unix boxes that still rely on it
09:29 <@Dagmar> A distribution declaring something deprecated only applies to THEIR USE of it
09:29 <@Dagmar> It does not affect the thing they have declared deprecated, outside of their distribution
09:30 <@Dagmar> Another view... shotguns.  Completely useless for programming.
09:30 <@Dagmar> Doesn't mean shotguns are completely useless.
09:31 <@Dagmar> Being that this is the reason for the difference between 'them' and 'they' something should be clicking eventually.
09:31 <@Dagmar> Don't be like all the noobs out there who try to use big words and get it wrong
09:31 <@Dagmar> If illiteracy takes over, I will burn down the internat.
09:31 <@Dagmar> s/internat/internet/
09:39 <@nachoguy> mr0nin
09:40 <@Dagmar> Oh fuck that
09:40 <@Dagmar> Nothing ever good comes of those things anymor9e.
09:41 <@Dagmar> Hell, public schools use them as an excuse to deliberately slow traffic to impede people who matter.
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10:01 < Todd> so I guess the moral of the story is that arch !== linux.. that's a damn shame
10:01  * Todd ducks
10:02 <@Dagmar> jesus you just have this thing against using your brain, don't you
10:02 < Todd> You're kinda cute when you're upset.
10:02 <@Dagmar> IF IFCONFIG WERE ACTUALLY DEPRECATED, NO ONE SHOULD OR WOULD BE USING IT ANYWHERE, INCLUDING OLD UNICES
10:02 < Todd> now I've done it
10:03 < Todd> Missles locked.
10:03 <@Dagmar> SINCE IT IS NOT, TREATING IT AS DEPRECATED MEANS THAT AT SOME POINT YOU WILL NEED TO KNOW IT AND WILL BE SUMMARILY FUCKED.
10:03 <@Dagmar> BUT SINCE YOU'RE DUMB AS A STICK, GOOD LUCK TO YOU ANYWAY.
10:03 <@nachoguy> heh
10:03 <@nachoguy> shit, he's going critical
10:03 <@nachoguy> get behind the blast doors
10:04 <@Dagmar> We should just be setting him on fire.
10:04 <@Dagmar> Refusal to think in hacker channel == EPIC FAIL
10:25 <@sdodson> Dagmar: plz rage quit, thanks.
10:25 <@sdodson> nachoguy: HAI!
10:27 <@nachoguy> hey sdodson
10:37 <@nachoguy> what's going on these days?
10:37 <@nachoguy> Everyone gearing up for SkyDogCon, I assume
10:49 <@nachoguy> I didn't hear a resounding yes
10:52 <@sdodson> yay another con!
10:52 <@ware> lol
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11:32 <@nachoguy> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/25/greyhound_incident/
11:33 <@the_hugme> I leave for a minute and everyone starts throwing poo....
11:33 <@nachoguy> That's for all you Nasvillians
11:33 <@nachoguy> Poo?  did you read the link?
11:34 <@the_hugme> I was speaking of the previous conversations...
11:36 <@nachoguy> Dagmar's Vitriol or my Trolling about Con redundancy?
11:36 <@vaneck> "PhreakNIC" group code not in the system yet at Days Inn Stadium apparently.
11:38 <@nachoguy> fun
11:38 <@nachoguy> hey Vaneck, I saw a car a few months back with a license plate of "van eck"
11:38 <@nachoguy> Stopped my car, got out and took a picture
11:40 <@vaneck> that's very cool...TN plate?
11:42 <@nachoguy> Illinois
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12:38 <@CRasH180> That's right! Identify!
12:59 <@VampirePenguin> Dagmar: the programmer or inxi, smxi, and some other items for networking tools specifically mentioned, and he programs  for mostly debian interfaces that ipconfig is deprecated and he had to change over to ip addr so as NOT to break his scripting
12:59 <@VampirePenguin> i tend to believe ive seen the mans work for years
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13:33 <@Dagmar> VampirePenguin: Plz read moar carfully kthxbai
13:34 <@VampirePenguin> read about what
13:34 <@Dagmar> ifconfig can be deprecated for use with distribution X, Y, and Z, and not be "deprecated"
13:34 <@VampirePenguin> well debian and its babies are over half of linux distros
13:34 <@VampirePenguin> and when they change
13:34 <@VampirePenguin> i do believe that it is the iproute2 pkg
13:35 <@Dagmar> How some guy "had" to use ip to not break his own scripting sez to me he was doing something weird in the first place.
13:35 <@Dagmar> Now, changing in advance of the target distro dropping ifconfig is another matter entirely.
13:36 <@Dagmar> This *still* does not make ifconfig across-the-board deprecated.
13:36 <@Dagmar> WHen we stop using IPV4 and IPV6, THEN it'll probably be deprecated
13:36 <@VampirePenguin> no this guy that showed me was doing it because scripts were already breaking
13:36 <@Dagmar> Until then one might as well claim that it is deprecated because wireless interfaces don't use it, they use iwconfig.
13:36 <@VampirePenguin> i think that is why ip addr is comiing along it is ipv6 friendly
13:37 <@VampirePenguin> i dont have a wifi so ip addr only shows all active tunnels, ppp, lo, eth
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13:39 <@Dagmar> Der yes
13:39 <@Dagmar> If you're using ipv6 you should damn well be using ip as well
13:39 <@Dagmar> However there's shit tons of people still not using ipv6.
13:39 <@VampirePenguin> i had probs with ipv6
13:39 <@VampirePenguin> it was my isp issue
13:40 <@Dagmar> THer'es more people using iwconfig with a wireless interface than are using ipv6.
13:40 <@VampirePenguin> they still havent registered the ips range and in arin it doesnt exist
13:40 < scribbles> call linksys
13:40 <@Dagmar> I'd like to say I have problems with ipv6, but my ISP is Comcast and I'd be an idiot to think they're going to enable that until armed militiamen are pointing guns at their CEO.
13:40 < scribbles> lololol
13:41 <@Dagmar> Until then you'll probably be able to enable IPv6 for a "modest" $9/addl per month.
13:41 <@VampirePenguin> well i fixed my connection on my own
13:41 <@VampirePenguin> now i get my whopping 10Mbs dsl speeds down
13:41 <@VampirePenguin> all the time not once in  awhile
13:43 <@VampirePenguin> i do have to give it to them even in thunderstorms ive never had them go down
13:44 <@Dagmar> Warning: the following link is FUCKING TERRIFYING  --> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/ventblockers_2/
13:45 <@VampirePenguin> lol
13:45 <@VampirePenguin> and magnetic no less
13:45 <@Bahhumbug> CRasH180: I am now.  For a moment at least.
13:47 <@VampirePenguin> hmmm for some reason ... rammstein amerika sounds about right
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16:24  * brimstone stares at nachoguy
16:26 <@nachoguy> heya Brimmy
16:28 <@nachoguy> What's going on in the 256?
16:28 <@brimstone> breakin' stuff
16:28 <@brimstone> the usual
16:28 <@nachoguy> anything in particular?
16:29 <@brimstone> i *might* have figured out the PTO accural system at work
16:29 <@nachoguy> heh
16:29 <@nachoguy> once you figure it out, you have to game it
16:30 <@brimstone> that's step 2 isn't it?
16:31 <@nachoguy> abso-tively
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18:45 <@dasunt> Awesome.
18:45 <@dasunt> Switch my GF's phone to my apartment, and Qwest^HCenturyTel disconnects my DSL.
18:46 < RangerZ> nice
18:46 <@dasunt> Then, he comes today to fix it, and tells me its $100 to install a jack for the second line.
18:47 <@dasunt> I have two lines running to each jack in this apartment, WTF?
18:48 < RangerZ> well DUH... how else are they going to invest in upgrading their network in the future, if you don't pay now?
18:49 < RangerZ> its not like the government pays telecoms to install better equipment... or that consumers want better service...
18:50 < RangerZ> ohh wait... nvm... you're just getting boned
19:22 <@the_hugme> wow checkpoint support sucks...
19:23 <@the_hugme> I mean... more than most
19:26 <@Dagmar> Yes, it does.
19:27 <@the_hugme> 31 minutes on hold until someone answered
19:27 <@Dagmar> I don't have a lot of respect for the skills of one of the guys at work who manages our firewalls, but Checkpoint's support has apparently been completely useless in getting snmpd to proxy queries to the local cpsnmpd running.
19:27 <@Dagmar> I have had to rejigger a bunch of queries to go directly after it on port 260.
19:28 <@Dagmar> That it works on *some* of the firewalls and not on others with no rational explanation is very frustrating
19:30 <@the_hugme> my first experience with him the engineer screwed up my firewall so badly I had to reinstall the firmware
19:30 <@the_hugme> luckly it was just in the staging network...
19:31 <@Dagmar> Wow I'd have been a little pissed
19:31 <@the_hugme> oh... and NEVER call them back on their own number... it LOOKS like a normal phone number....
19:31 <@the_hugme> I called them back and was on the line for 2 hours
19:31 <@the_hugme> a month later, I receive a $600 bill for a 2 hour call to canada
19:48 <@dasunt> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming
19:49 <@Dagmar> dasunt: ...and that would be why I've logged so few hours in WoW lately
19:50 <@dasunt> My GF moved in this week.
19:50 <@dasunt> And Qwest killed my DSL.
19:50 <@dasunt> I almost didn't miss it.
19:50 <@dasunt> MMOs:  It really helps if you have no life.
19:56 <@Dagmar> Actually, trust me on this one, that isn't helping 3/4 of the players one goddamn bit.
19:56 <@Dagmar> They still can't manage to get out of the damn fire.
19:57 <@Dagmar> I have actually taken to telling people that I'm really high about 3 pulls in when I'm on my healer.
19:57 <@Dagmar> Am I *actually* high?  Fuck no.
19:57 <@Dagmar> I just want them to react like they actually wish to live.
19:58 <@Dagmar> Just because my toon is twinked as fuck doesn't mean everyone else gets to nap their way through the instance.
19:58 <@Dagmar> ...because at some point, I'm going to maybe wind up in a 25-man PUG with these people.
19:59 <@Dagmar> ...and if they can't figure out which end of the keyboard goes into their mouths, that's a completely wasted afternoon.
19:59 <@Dagmar> Blizz has been making the raid encounters increasingly genuinely hard
20:00 <@Dagmar> You either learn to hokey pokey or you die.
20:00 <@Dagmar> At least when I'm fucking around with Dwarf Fortress none of those little dwarves make me think they're too stupid to dress themselves.
20:01 <@Dagmar> I've seen some supposed "tanks" who are probably a strangulation risk if they had to put on a hooded sweatshirt with no zipper.
20:18 <@dasunt> Heh.
20:37 <@dasunt> Ha ha.
20:37 <@dasunt> So "George", my GF's rat, is living in my apartment now.
20:38 <@dasunt> I open up his cage (he has a huge ferret cage), and push a small chest in front of it so he can come out.
20:38 <@dasunt> He sniffs a bit, looks around, and slowly creeps out.  Then he's feeling a bit more bolt, so he goes into the middle of the top of the chest.
20:38 <@dasunt> At which point, my cat Sally walks in, smells George, and pops her head up over the side of the chest.
20:39 <@dasunt> Boy, rats can run fast!
20:52 <@rhia> heheh
21:08 < eryc> http://fukung.net/v/26045/203d79d57cff5c82740da3c871abcebb.jpg
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22:49 <@Evilpig> wtf
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 26 00:00:12 2011