--- Log opened Thu Jul 07 00:00:35 2011
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07:29 < eryc> morning
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08:12 < sdodson> eryc: hi sunshine
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10:02 <@Corydon76-home> http://consumerist.com/2011/07/video-of-25727-passwords-from-sony-hack-one-per-frame.html
10:03 <@Dagmar> Sweet
10:04 <@Corydon76-home> "123456" was apparently a VERY popular password on Sony
10:04 <@Dagmar> Yep
10:05 <@Corydon76-home> Also looks like people were using their phone numbers as passwords
10:21 < todd> burp
10:22 < eryc> fuck*
10:25 <@Dagmar> I have greatly enjoyed the presents Lulzsec granted us all with their releases
10:26 <@Dagmar> Although frankly now, there's only one thing I can really say about password security...
10:26 <@Dagmar> "YOU USERS ARE FUCKING ASSHOLES WHO GET WHAT YOU DESERVE"
10:27 <@Dagmar> Stupid-ass passwords have become the norm, and I strongly suspect that at least 30% of the world's population as a whole have decided upon their own "single sign-on" solution
10:27 <@Dagmar> Sites should start selecting password criteria that is theoretically _less_ secure, in order to be incompatible wiht other site's password guidelines
10:28 <@Dagmar> Let's say for example
10:28 <@Dagmar> 1. Requires at least one uppercase letter
10:28 <@Dagmar> 2. Requires one bit of punctuation
10:28 <@Dagmar> 3. Requires one lowercase letter
10:28 <@Dagmar> 4. Requires a number
10:28 <@Dagmar> Of those four, two should be required and two should be forbidden
10:29 <@Dickie> Never gonna happen.
10:29 <@Dickie> "Too complicated"
10:30 <@Dickie> Mom & Dad won't use those services.
10:31 <@Dagmar> Mom & Dad shouldn't be using hte internet without teenage supervision anyway
10:35 < scribbles> the problem is that the people that understand it hte least are the ones making laws about it ;)
10:44 <@Corydon76-home> The problem, in this case, wasn't that people are or are not using secure passwords.  It's that Sony stored them in cleartext.
10:46 <@Corydon76-home> If you want to make a law, make a law that any site that stores passwords for more than 100 disparate accounts must store only a one-way hash of the password, not the password in cleartext or in any manner where the password can be easy deobfuscated
10:48 <@Corydon76-home> We have to fix THAT side of the equation.  Whether you use a good password or not can be entirely compromised by the provider
10:52 <@brimstone> i've got it
10:52 <@brimstone> let's create a audit process for websites
10:52 <@brimstone> like iso-9000 and whatnot
10:55 <@Dagmar> Well, "easily deobfuscated" becomes larger and larger by the day
10:55 <@Dagmar> Some of the crack rates of the newer hash-busting mechanisms are truly staggering
10:56 <@Dagmar> Brute-forcing any given 8-character password in less than a day is now possible on a budget, even
10:56 <@brimstone> what's it, $20 worth of ec2 time?
10:56 <@Corydon76-home> Dagmar: That, too, can be defined, as a non-repeating algorithm
10:56 <@brimstone> something stupid
10:56 <@Corydon76-home> Dagmar: depends upon the hash type
10:56 <@Dagmar> People are doing it on single workstations with a fancy video card now
10:56 <@Corydon76-home> MD5, sure.  SHA-512, not so much
10:57 <@Dagmar> Also, Torchwood on the web tonight I think... Awesome.
10:58 <@Corydon76-home> There's little excuse not to use the largest bitsize algorithm in new designs
10:58 <@Corydon76-home> Rainbow tables can be combatted by using a longer salt
10:58 <@Dagmar> See also http://www.starz.com/originals/torchwood
10:58 <@Dagmar> When rainbow tables are involved it's WAY less than a day
11:02 <@Dagmar> I *had* read that Starz was going to be streaming Miracle Day a day early from their website but now I can' tseem to find that info
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11:08 <@Dagmar> In theory it'll go up on their site tonight at midnight
11:11 <@Dagmar> Less theory and more pragmatism is that Comcast's system is still a complete clusterfuck
11:23 <@Dagmar> SCrew it.  I'll make another "Annoy the shit out of Comcast" call
11:32 <@Dagmar> Seriously, I'm paying ~$60/month for "Digital Starter w/On Demand" and it matches exactly none of the lineups on their site
11:33 <@Dagmar> I *might* be able to add a premium channel for $10/month, or I might be able to add it for $33/month
11:33 <@Dagmar> ...or it's possible they're about to tell me a bunch of bullshit and make me angry enough to switch to U-Verse
11:41 <@oddball> I just wish there was a way to customize the channel guide to only show what you are subscribed to.
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11:58 <@Dagmar> I have spent enough time on hold with them
11:59 <@Dagmar> I now know I have "Basic Expanded Cable w/HD"
11:59 <@Dagmar> This really doesn't tell me shit
12:08 <@Dagmar> This should be a drinking game, but someone would probably wind up in the hospital
12:09 <@Dagmar> "Call Comcast and ask for a list of what channels you're actually subscribing to.  Drink every time they don't answer the question."
12:09 < RangerZ> buy some cheap 1/2 proof drinks from a grocery store, you'll be fine
12:09 <@Dagmar> I'm thinking even O'Douls would be risky with this
12:12 < Mercster> comcast used to have a decent tv listing, but then they fucked it all up. i suggest zap2it
12:12 <@Dagmar> I sort of have that by side-effect.
12:12 < Mercster> been using it for years
12:12 <@Dagmar> I have SchedulesDirect.
12:13 < Mercster> ah, yeah
12:13 < Mercster> but that's on the tv, right
12:13 <@Dagmar> Same data feed, except Comcast isn't even giving THEM the correct information
12:13 < Mercster> i hate browsing shit on the tv
12:13 <@Dagmar> I am not going to slog through that menu.  No way.  It doesn't even show you which channels you do and don't have anyway.
12:13 < Mercster> Dagmar: at least on zap2it you can customize your lineup, add/remove channels from the listing, re-order the listings, etc
12:14 < Mercster> it's laborious and annoying but the work pays off
12:14 < RangerZ> which has better internet service down there, att or comcast?
12:14 <@Dagmar> God only knows
12:14 < RangerZ> :(
12:14 < Mercster> i had att dsl for awhile, i like comcast better
12:14 <@Dagmar> Mercster: Again, I have SchedulesDirect
12:14 < Mercster> not that comcast is great or anything
12:14 <@Dagmar> They both get their information from TMS.
12:15 < Mercster> Dagmar: right, all im saying is, you can customize zap2it (and i guess shcedulesdirect?) so although it doesnt know what's in your plan, you can still trim it down to what you have
12:15 < Mercster> im not saying the info is any different, im just saying, you can fix the lineup to what you have manually
12:15 < Mercster> which is a bitch at first, but once you've done it, it's saved
12:16 <@Dagmar> You can customize the SchedulesDirect lineup, but you have to know what freaking channels to remove first.
12:17 <@Dagmar> At the moment I've got a chat window up with someone probably from Mumbai trying to tell me that I have "Digital Starter"
12:17 < Mercster> i think i have what you have
12:17 < Mercster> possibly more, not sure
12:17 < Mercster> it's a digital starter with extended basic or some shit, and also the encore package
12:18 < Mercster> who knows, for me it doesnt matter whether i know if i have the gold network or the game show network or whatever, i dont want to see it in my lineup anyway
12:18 < Mercster> s/gold/golf
12:19 <@Dagmar> I wonder if their accuracy would change if someone showed up with a chainsaw and started carving up the walls
12:21 <@oddball> RangerZ: I've had much better luck with Comcast than with ATT DSL.  Of course, there are people that will say the opposite.  Apparently it depends on what block you live on.
12:21 < RangerZ> great
12:21 <@Dagmar> Certainly AT&T's website is less full of bullshit
12:21 <@Dagmar> In the time I've wasted wiht this Comcast rep I have learned that for $79/month I can have all the channels I want plus BBC America
12:21 < Mercster> the wiring in my building, or maybe my distance to the nearest whatever, capped my ATT DSL to 3M down
12:22 < Mercster> if i had 6M enabled, connection would die anytime it rained or thundered
12:22 < Mercster> cable is more fault tolerant in my experience
12:22 < RangerZ> yeah
12:22 < RangerZ> i hate comcast
12:22 < RangerZ> but i guess i'll have to go with them
12:23 < RangerZ> probably won't even get TV
12:23 <@Dagmar> I'm going to publicize this shit
12:23 <@Dagmar> Perhaps if I embarass the thunderfuck out of them they'll get their act together.
12:24 < Mercster> issa OUTRAGE! </johnny cochran>
12:24 < RangerZ> lol
12:24 < Mercster> issa OUTRAGE! </Dagmar>
12:24 < RangerZ> yeah... b/c they care anymore , with buying nbc, et al
12:25 <@brimstone> i've found that the raw technology quality is more than acceptable, but if you have to get a human from comcast involved, you're SOL
12:26 <@brimstone> network worked fine at the shop, we try to get them to move to our new location, 3 week wait
12:26 < Mercster> brimstone: ive found repeatedly screaming "AGENT" into their system usually gets you to someone, but they'll be an idiot
12:26 <@brimstone> i say "operator"
12:26 < Mercster> dont really have to call them for much tho, that's the saving grace
12:26 < Mercster> mostly just works
12:26 < Mercster> unless your modem fries itself or something, then you can just go down to the office and exchange it
12:26 <@Dagmar> If I had to call them more often they'd have my picture on posters at the office
12:27 <@Dagmar> "IF YOU SEE THIS MAN, RUN."
12:27 <@brimstone> don't get me started on the office in town
12:27 <@brimstone> that same 4 ladies deal with all problems
12:27 <@brimstone> can't get the batteries out of your remote, need to just return a modem etc
12:28 <@brimstone> jacks of all trade, masters of none
12:28 <@brimstone> but there's not really a way for the customer to reliably say "this'll just take a minute"
12:28 < Mercster> o/~ lowered expectaaatioooons...
12:28 < RangerZ> god i feel lucky actually having a _real _ local company provide my cable
12:29 <@brimstone> i walk into the main office to return a modem and the average age in line drops 20 years
12:30 < RangerZ> it has only gone out twice in the past three years, and that is when a pole in my neighborhood was knocked down by storms
12:31 < RangerZ> Dagmar: want to call and setup my comcast to be setup for me? hehe
12:31 < Mercster> RangerZ: you dont want that, you'll end up with your dog poisoned
12:31 < RangerZ> true...
12:31 < Mercster> Dagmar is gonna find a way to piss them off, whether they deserve it or not
12:37 < RangerZ> somehow i feel vast amounts of truth emanating from your statement
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13:21 < RangerZ> speaking of AT&T and Craptastic
13:21 < RangerZ> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110707/10173014998/major-us-isps-agree-to-five-strikes-plan-rather-than-three.shtml
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15:26 < todd> paaaaaaaaain
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17:39 < Mercster> storm's hittin knoxville
17:52 <@Bahhumbug> you should go out and play in the rain.
18:14 < Mercster> just did
18:16 < Mercster> well, i didnt *play* in it, but i did go out and watch it for awhile
18:16 < Mercster> shit was coming down at a 45degree angle
18:16 < Mercster> seems to have slowed down a bit, but i wouldnt be surprised if it picked back up
20:12 < Mercster> you're gonna love me when you see me :)
20:12 < Mercster> you dont have to worry
20:28 <@dasunt> This whole Casey Anthony thing makes me worry about people.
20:30 <@dasunt> Just so many people who don't understand the difference between "she's guilty of something" and "she's guilty beyond all reasonable doubt."
20:30 < Mercster> dasunt: that's how juries work tho. there was reasonable doubt
20:30 <@dasunt> Mercster: I agree with the jury.
20:30 < Mercster> well, she *was* found guilty of something
20:30 <@dasunt> I don't agree with people who think the justice system failed or that the jury was wrong.
20:30 < Mercster> just not most of it
20:30 < Mercster> yeah
20:30 <@dasunt> Yep, she was found guilty of lying.
20:31 <@dasunt> But the jury couldn't tell if she was a negligent mother, or a mother who killed her own child, and I have to agree wit the jury on that.
20:31 < Mercster> yeah
20:31 < Mercster> it's a crying shame, but them's the facts
20:32 <@dasunt> I guess Florida has a law where you can nail someone for the costs incurred from filing a false police report.
20:32 <@dasunt> Florida has over $100,000 in the cost of the search for her.
20:32 <@dasunt> Er, for her daughter.
20:32 < Mercster> yeah
20:32 < Mercster> she's gonna get hit with fees out the ass
20:32 < Mercster> but that's about it
20:33 <@dasunt> She also has a defamation suite against her.
20:33 <@dasunt> The woman she claimed was babysitting her child was a neighbor.
20:33 < Mercster> oh yeah, the supposed babysitter
20:34 <@dasunt> If someone gave a damn, there's always wrongful death as well.
20:34 < Mercster> yeah, they hit OJ with that
20:35 <@dasunt> It's "preponderance of evidence" and not "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt", so I think Casey Anthony would be screwed.
20:35 < Mercster> i dont pretend to know what happened, man
20:35 < Mercster> some bad shit went down
20:35 < Mercster> that's all i can figure
20:35 <@dasunt> I can't see it as being premeditated.
20:36 <@dasunt> The lies she had to cover it up were just too bad.
20:36 <@Bahhumbug> We'll never know.
20:36 < Mercster> dasunt: usually the first bit of info when it comes to "evidence" is cause of death.
20:36 < Mercster> right?
20:36 < Mercster> that's the obvious first question
20:36 < Mercster> prosecution didnt answer it
20:36 < RangerZ> the problem is that most people can't imagine some mother being as non-caring about her daughter as she was, and I know someone sadly who would have acted _exactly_ like that if her daughter had died
20:36 <@dasunt> I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was something like "kid got into her stash of hillybilly heroin" or some shit like that.
20:36 < RangerZ> so they assume she must have killed her, no... she's just a _real_ sociopath.. doesn't have empathy
20:37 <@dasunt> Yep, she does seem like a sociopath.
20:37 <@dasunt> She doesn't care, but it doesn't mean she must have murdered the kid.
20:38 < Mercster> she's obviously a sociopath, histrionic personality disorder, borderline, something
20:38 < Mercster> she's a raging moron and an emotional wreck
20:38 <@dasunt> Hell, maybe she just couldn't find a babysitter, went out to party while leaving the kid at home, and the kid died so she panicked.
20:38 < RangerZ> the "zani => zanex" idea sounds likely to me
20:38 < Mercster> xanax?
20:38 < RangerZ> that she would drug the kid while she went out partying, and this one time, the kid died
20:39 < RangerZ> yes, xanax*
20:39 <@dasunt> I could see that as well.
20:39 <@dasunt> If that's the case, her 3 years she got in prison seems not too unfair.
20:39 < RangerZ> that would have been a felony in FL though
20:39 < RangerZ> and like 20 years
20:39 <@dasunt> That much?
20:40 <@dasunt> Seems like a waste of taxpayer's money, to be honest.
20:40 < RangerZ> the 2nd charge she was found not-guilty for
20:40 <@dasunt> It's a shame we just can't forcefully sterilize the people who negligently kill their kids, but I suppose with the history of eugenics, it's probably a good thing government doesn't have that power.
20:40 < RangerZ> and the "tech guy" the prosecution had...was a  joke
20:41 < RangerZ> i'd bet every single person in here could have done a better job
20:41 <@dasunt> RangerZ: I'm glad I'm not the only one who started wondering about what the hell he was doing.
20:41 <@dasunt> Do deleted files in NTFS have date information still?  I thought so.
20:41 < RangerZ> i've taken computer forensics courses
20:41 < RangerZ> and he was doing everything wrong
20:42 < RangerZ> finding different results with 2 programs... wow... is that bad
20:42 <@dasunt> I think he was the equivalent of a script kiddie.
20:42 < RangerZ> plus he wasn't using well qualified, well known software
20:42 < RangerZ> no... he is highly ranked in the FBI or something...
20:42 <@dasunt> RangerZ: Doesn't mean he wasn't a script kiddie.
20:42 < RangerZ> i think he was just on a railroad job... found what he wanted... and just stoped
20:43 <@dasunt> Doesn't he strike you as someone who learned how to use a program, instead of someone who knows theory, and really wants to figure out what happened?
20:43 < RangerZ> (unfortunately thats most computer forensics people)
20:43 < RangerZ> but yes
20:43 <@dasunt> I actually wish I could get a raw image of that drive.
20:44 < RangerZ> i said the exact same thing to my mom yesterday
20:44 <@dasunt> His testimony wasn't that great either.
20:44 < RangerZ> b/c she is who got me into this, she had me watch the tech guy... b/c even she could tell he wasn't completely on the up and up
20:44 <@dasunt> So, she looked about how to break someone's neck, but she also looked for self defense, and she read a blog(?) about a zombie invasion.
20:45 <@dasunt> And the tech guy (from what I could tell) couldn't place the web history in order, could he?
20:45 <@Evilpig> okay who all has a google+ profile?
20:45 < RangerZ> he didn't use enCase or any of the other programs that literally just let you put in a regex and find anything you want with a simple search bar
20:46 <@dasunt> Well, it was mozilla.  That seemed to confuse him.
20:46 < RangerZ> he used some _horrible_ program that relied on timestamps (which should _never_ be used in a trail case)
20:46 <@dasunt> (I'd presume it was firefox, but...)
20:46 <@dasunt> Note to self:  alter timestamps for alibi if needed.
20:46 < RangerZ> it's _wayyyy_ too easy to mess with timestamps
20:47 < RangerZ> but they are often admitted despite that fact
20:47 <@dasunt> This conversation makes me want to encrypt my hard drive.
20:47 <@dasunt> I probably should, to be honest.  At least ~.
20:48 <@dasunt> Oh, and /tmp
20:48 <@dasunt> Maybe /var
20:48 < RangerZ> biggest now is the swap space
20:48 <@dasunt> Oh, yes.
20:48 <@dasunt> :(
20:49 <@dasunt> It's not that I'm planning to do anything, but OMG my search history...
20:49 < RangerZ> since they are using the can-of-air-upside-down to chill the ram between a power down
20:49 < Mercster> :|
20:50 < RangerZ> and sadly... the most work that any CF person does for the state is child porn
20:50 < RangerZ> think it was 27% of all cases from the one place they talked about
20:51 <@dasunt> Yah, my search history would not help me for that.
20:51 <@dasunt> I ended up googling pedophile recidivism rates awhile back.
20:51 <@dasunt> I could just see that coming up in court "why did you google pedophilia and the justice system?"  "Er, argument on the internet."
20:52 < RangerZ> ....right son.... you know you are never seeing daylight again right....    yes your honor...
20:52 <@dasunt> Yah.
20:53 <@dasunt> Gawd, there's people still in jail who are most likely innocent, just because of the satanic day care center abuse hysteria a few decades back.
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20:54 <@dasunt> Oh, that reminds me, I have t-shirts from metal concerts.
20:54 <@dasunt> I'm so fucked if I'm ever charged with a crime.
20:55 < RangerZ> ok...?
20:56 <@dasunt> You heard of the West Memphis 3?
20:56 < RangerZ> no
20:57 < RangerZ> .</from ohio>
20:57 < RangerZ> <moving down there soon>
20:57 <@dasunt> Three kids got killed down in West Memphis.
20:57 <@dasunt> They charged three teens with the crime.
20:57 <@dasunt> One of the bits of evidence at trial was listening to metal.
20:58 < RangerZ> ohh hell... i'm screwed...
20:58 < RangerZ> i'm working again as a lighting tech/stagehand
20:58 <@dasunt> There was also that "it might not have been arson" guy.
20:58 <@dasunt> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann
20:59 <@dasunt> Iron Maiden == murder.
21:00 <@dasunt> (Yah, it looks like Texas might have killed an innocent man, due to the investigation of a house fire being screwed up.)
21:01 < RangerZ> texas put in an express lane for death penalty ...
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21:45 < sdodson> hello there
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22:40 <@Evilpig> ROFL!  http://i.imgur.com/lNTxn.jpg
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23:16 <@dasunt> I wonder how rude it would be to randomly contact people with my ancestor's last name on facebook, and see if they have any family tree info.
23:17 <@dasunt> "Pardon me, I don't speak a speck of Swedish, so I'm running this through google translate..."
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23:39  * Bahhumbug looks at his nice shiny new C6 ISOs
23:40 <@Bahhumbug> actually, it probably wouldn't be rude at all.
23:40 <@Bahhumbug> might care to have a native Swedish speaking person review the message you want to send them.  Quite likely they already speak English.
23:42 <@dasunt> Well, I'd be targetting older people.
23:43 <@dasunt> Luckily, I live in Minnesota, so finding native Swedish speakers isn't too hard.
23:43 <@Bahhumbug> heh, true.
23:44 <@dasunt> Facebook turns up about 37 matches for my great grandfather's last name.
23:44 <@dasunt> Suspiciously low.
23:44 <@dasunt> I find about 9 people with the same last name in a white pages search.
23:44 <@dasunt> Supposedly, my family found religion and changed their last name.  I suspect that family tale has a bit of truth, just because this is one rare last name.
23:45 <@Bahhumbug> you tried poking around ancestry.com?
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23:52 < RangerZ> my grandfather used those too, plus lots of churches kept records like birth/death if you go way back
23:54 <@dasunt> Yep.
23:54 <@dasunt> But not much online.
23:54 <@dasunt> I did find my great-great uncle had a patent out in his name though.
23:57 <@Bahhumbug> not to pry, but if the religion in question was LDS they keep immaculate ancestry records.
--- Log closed Fri Jul 08 00:00:35 2011