--- Log opened Sun May 15 00:00:14 2011
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00:40 <@Dagmar> lulz http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336779/Family-overcome-emulsion-Car-crash-covers-white-paint.html
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03:38 <@NotLarry> is it a felony to remove the organs of an "analyst"?
03:38 <@NotLarry> just saying
04:42 <@NotLarry> ping
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05:31 <@Bahhumbug> NotLarry: nope, provided that some good come of said organs.
05:47 <@Evilpig> NotLarry: I think if those organs cause that "analyst" to stop functioning at his job then it might be bad.  is he currently doing the job?
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10:13 <@sdodson> Bahhumbug: so any news in the centos arena?
10:29 <@sdodson> Bahhumbug: http://blog.2ndquadrant.com/en/2011/05/the-rise-and-fall-of-centos.html is an interesting read if you haven't read it
11:31 < WebDawg> I read it.
11:32 < WebDawg> ALL OF IT.
11:33 <@sdodson> WebDawg: who are you?
11:47 <@NotLarry> I will get a blood sample before next week, we will start checking the local waiting list for matches
11:48 <@NotLarry> I don't think we would notice.  We might have to put a heater on the seat, but...
12:27 < WebDawg> sdodson, just someone.
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15:53 <@Bahhumbug> sdodson: more fud
15:54 <@Bahhumbug> I just glanced at it and noticed more references to Dag's drama and lumped the article in with all the other "this author isn't part of the community and has no fucking clue what he/she is mewling over."
15:54 <@Dagmar> Like anyone would believe there was a rise of CentOS
15:55 <@Bahhumbug> Get over yourself.
15:55 <@Bahhumbug> It's the single most widely deployed OS in the enterprise.
15:55 <@sdodson> Bahhumbug: interesting.
15:57 <@sdodson> Bahhumbug: I thought you were of the camp that CentOS was eating itself.
15:58 <@Bahhumbug> sdodson: I'm sick of Dag's drama-queen bullshit.  There are some real issues at play with CentOS that are occuring behind the scenes; Dag's nonsense is hardly relevant at all, however.  He quit the project 2 years ago.  Since that time he's been fostering a campaign of belittlement and not-well-veiled insults against the core development team, primarily KB.
15:58 <@Bahhumbug> I am of the camp that there needs to be a shakeup of who's running things as the project, in many regards, has been usurped by a single player.
15:59 <@Bahhumbug> There are issues, but for people to toss words together to fan the flames looking for a by-line, well, I've little regard for them.  I know most of the community players and some of them have a stake and some of them write from the heart.  This last article, well, it's bird-cage liner.
16:07 <@sdodson> I can't remember if it's the blog post or in the comments that someone suggested the focus should have been on RHEL6. But I think that's a good argument. The value of 5.6 is probably lower than that of 6.0.
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16:07 <@Bahhumbug> Nope
16:08 <@Bahhumbug> CentOS has _millions_ of installed C5 systems; those are existing customers that require security updates to be in place.  C6 has 0 customers.
16:09 <@Bahhumbug> You take care of the existing customer base first and address open issues that those people are experiencing before you consider anything else.
16:09 <@sdodson> They could have gotten security updates from the 5.5.z stream.
16:09 <@Bahhumbug> Same reason that 4.9 was given priority over 6.
16:09 <@Bahhumbug> CentOS doesn't push Z updates.
16:09 <@Bahhumbug> There are some signficant issues when you take that route.
16:10 <@Bahhumbug> It's easier, and saner, overall to put out point releases with a stable build / link environment.
16:11 <@Bahhumbug> If you've a bank of phone monkeys that can field support issues for you that's fine, but centos doesn't have that and in order to ensure a sane transition between releases you take the route of the lowest resistance; and that route is just to roll up your sleeves and get the point release out the door.
16:11 <@Bahhumbug> Sadly that didn't happen in a timely manner.
16:12 <@sdodson> :( phone monkeys :(
16:12 <@Bahhumbug> But the thing that gets me is that people are comparing centos to SL, and that's a wholely unfair comparison.
16:12 <@Bahhumbug> (no insult, industry term for first level support folks)
16:13 <@sdodson> I wonder if we really deliver first level support.
16:13 <@Bahhumbug> SL and centos have 2 very different goals and requirement sets in place and it's like comparing apples and eggs.
16:14 <@Bahhumbug> and, this is the kicker, SL and centos, for all intents, and working at the same pace.  they choose to concentrate on 6 versus centos concentraing on 4.9 and 5.6.
16:14 <@Bahhumbug> and centos doesn't have a c6 product out and SL doesn't have a 5.6 product out.
16:14 <@Bahhumbug> funny how that works.
16:15 <@sdodson> I don't understand the comment about the build link environment. The actual build environment doesn't change at any appreciable rate.
16:16 <@Bahhumbug> yes, it does.
16:16 <@Bahhumbug> you guys use non-available packages to build and link against that are _not_ available.
16:17 <@Bahhumbug> you use non-public gcc kit at times; you don't do full rebuilds at times.
16:17 <@Bahhumbug> don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking it or your business model that forced the recent lumped kernel source changes.
16:17 <@sdodson> I don't believe that's true.
16:17 <@Bahhumbug> but it's not trivial do ensure binary compliance.
16:17 <@sdodson> I don't know fore sure though.
16:17 <@Bahhumbug> You can believe it or not, it's well documented.
16:18 <@Bahhumbug> Your build chains are not, and never have been, public.
16:18 <@Bahhumbug> You're not self-hosted, nor have you ever been so.
16:18 <@Bahhumbug> Again, I am not knocking it, just pointing out the fact of the matter.
16:19 <@Bahhumbug> You're in business to make money and service your paying clients; not to make it easier for centos/sl/oracle/anyone else to profit off of your work.
16:19 <@Bahhumbug> The fact you make the source rpms available to any and all comers is a wonderful thing.  You do not have to do so.  You only need make them available to your actual customers with support entitlements.
16:20 <@sdodson> Bahhumbug: Where can I find out more about this area? centos dev list archives?
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16:23 <@Bahhumbug> Yep
16:24 <@sdodson> I can see how it'd be very hard to bootstrap a build process, but I don't understand what would be complicated after that point.
16:24 <@Bahhumbug> (sorry for delays, conversations in too many channels to timeshare against effectively)
16:24 <@sdodson> That's fine, I'm going afk anyway.
16:24 <@Bahhumbug> heh
16:24 <@Bahhumbug> I am as well, chat later perhaps :)
16:24 <@sdodson> yup, later.
16:25 <@sdodson> Want to get outside before the sun goes down.
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21:08 < Mercster> FLASH!
21:08 < Mercster> AHHHH AHHHHHH!
21:11 < Mercster> HE'S A MIRACLE!
21:15 <@sdodson> Mercster: hi, how are you feeling?
21:15 < Mercster> i feel ok, how are you?
21:15 <@sdodson> Mercster: Great.
21:16 < Mercster> cool
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--- Log closed Mon May 16 00:00:14 2011