--- Log opened Sun Jan 02 00:00:59 2011
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00:43 <@Corydon76-home> Dickie: Marijuana smoke?
00:43 <@Bahhumbug> Mmmm.  Marijuana.
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08:42 < Dickie> One day...they'll legalize it.
08:49 <@Shadow404> woot, built first portal to nether in sp, pretty neat
08:53 <@Evilpig> the sounds from that thing are freaky
09:19 < fie> Pantaloons!
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18:24 < juice> http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/6d6xvm/gillesgouaillardet.com/images/raid.jpg
18:45 <@Corydon76-home> juice: RAID5 is slightly inaccurate
18:46 <@Corydon76-home> (lose 2, what happens?)
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19:03 < juice> could care less
19:03 < juice> i didn't make it
19:04 < juice> and any raid lose 2 and the raid is gone unless you have a hotspare
19:04 < juice> so 3 drive raid 5 is accurate
19:04 < juice> have plenty of servers running that way
19:05 < juice> i've seen raid 5 fail form 1 drive lost
19:05 <@Corydon76-home> juice: It's not supposed to
19:05 < juice> nope but it happens
19:05 < juice> ie why raid isn't backup
19:05 <@Corydon76-home> You're supposed to be able to lose any 1 drive
19:05 < juice> yeah but not always
19:06 < juice> sometimes the raid info gets stuck on 1 drive
19:06 < juice> and then the whole raidset is gone
19:06 < juice> sometime init to rescue on a volume set will fix it
19:06 < juice> other times not
19:06 <@Corydon76-home> Yeah, I don't think it qualifies as RAID 5, then...
19:06 < juice> watchd areca cards lose raid's on a failed drive too
19:06 < juice> raid 6
19:06 < juice> sure it does
19:07 < juice> 3 drive raid 5
19:07 <@Corydon76-home> It qualifies even though it fails the definition of RAID 5?
19:07 < juice> then one fails I've watched the vol and raid set go bye bye
19:07 < juice> yeah
19:07 < juice> the areca stores the raid info on the drives
19:07 < juice> so somehow it glitches out
19:07 < juice> and kills the entire thing
19:08 <@Corydon76-home> Yeah, flaw in the implementation
19:08 < juice> it's fun to argue with the sys admins on that too
19:08 <@Corydon76-home> Intentions matter for shit
19:08 < juice> when they say it's a raid 5 and only 1 drive failed so how is my 12 drive array gone
19:08 < juice> and I'm like it happened get over it
19:09 < juice> i haven't seen the problem on a 3-ware raid 5 yet
19:09 < juice> on areca though
19:09 < juice> several times
19:10 <@Corydon76-home> Find a lawyer, and you might be able to win a couple million bucks
19:10 < juice> I dunno they would blame it on something else like the drives u have aren't supported or something
19:11 <@Corydon76-home> Lawyers don't care.
19:11 <@Corydon76-home> Sue them until they settle and fix their hardware/drivers
19:11 < juice> and I don't have the money
19:11 <@Corydon76-home> Some lawyers will take the case for 44% of the settlement
19:12 <@Corydon76-home> Class action lawsuit, they'll take less
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19:34 <@Bahhumbug> depending on the model that areca controller might very well be fakeraid; and if it is it's junk by definition.
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19:49 < juice> it's not fakeraid
19:51 < juice> fakeraid wouldn't be using battery backup for one
19:53 <@Bahhumbug> nope, it wouldn't.
19:53 < juice> or have an onboard processor or cost 800-1500 dollars
19:53 < juice> :)
19:53 <@Bahhumbug> but the fact that an entire array went south with the loss of one drive doesn't elevate it much past fakeraid status in my book.  I'd be more than a little irritated about that.
19:54 < juice> yeah it's annoying
19:54 < juice> i should email the areca tech and se ewhat he says
19:54 < juice> they used to have a drive cache would lock problem
19:54 <@Bahhumbug> indeed
19:54 < juice> that was like why would you have a backup battery and then lock the drive cache so the contents couldn't be restored
19:55 < juice> they finally fixed that bug in firmware 1.47
19:55 < juice> had been around since at least 1.41
19:55 < juice> if not before
19:55 <@Bahhumbug> it'
19:55 < juice> card lost power it would just sit at the initializing raid screen untul the bbu was unlugged
19:55 < juice> unplugged
19:56 <@Bahhumbug> it's the twinky shit like that which reminds me why I dislike hardware raid these days.
19:56 < juice> it would never post or write back the data
19:56 < juice> yeah
19:56 < juice> i've seen so much failure I don't think I will personally use it at home
19:56 < juice> plus the cost for the cards
19:57 <@Bahhumbug> yeah, at 800-1500 a pop one just expects that they would work without having to worry about data loss on single element failures.
19:57 < juice> i dunno what one is the best i've had experience with lsi, 3-ware, dell, hp, and adaptec
19:57 < juice> and areca
19:57 < juice> yeah
19:58 < juice> it's a bug I don't know how to explain cause it's pretty random too
19:58 < juice> but is there
19:59 <@Bahhumbug> I used to swear by lsi, but that was a few years back.  I've been more than happy with md raid for my use cases.
19:59 < juice> another issue with the areca is they get picky about the raid cables, not sure if the hot and cold cuaisn contacts to expand and contract or the cables having the bends in them
19:59 < juice> but drives will start dropping
19:59 <@Bahhumbug> I do still have lsi in the field and they keep on chugging, knock on wood.
19:59 < juice> and won't stop a lot of times until cables i replaced
19:59 <@Bahhumbug> yuck
20:00 < juice> but it is also a certain styple cable
20:00 < juice> areca shipped
20:00 <@Bahhumbug> in manufacturing-style environments that's a show stopper.
20:00 < juice> that is really bad about it
20:00 < juice> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151079&cm_re=areca-_-16-151-079-_-Product
20:00 < juice> this cable is semi ok but get scratched and torn easy
20:01 <@Bahhumbug> had netapps deployed a number of years back; backend was extremely picky about electrical and on a single drive failure it would at times take out the entire shelf or a ta minimum report random drives as having failed.
20:01 < juice> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151080&cm_re=areca-_-16-151-080-_-Product
20:01 < juice> this cable total crap
20:01 < juice> the 2 cable split
20:01 < juice> into the one plug
20:01 < juice> is so bad
20:03 <@Bahhumbug> that design is prone to failure in every implementation I've ever seen it used.
20:03 < juice> hmm can't find the best cables
20:03 < juice> basically the same
20:03 < juice> on the cable to the plug is all flat and in 1 shielding
20:03 < juice> they seem to work fine
20:03 < juice> yeah
20:04 < juice> i think it is a result of the backplanes and the cables being bent
20:04 < juice> so much
20:04 < juice> they just break over time
20:04 < juice> some of the ends will be 90 degree but most are strait
20:04 < juice> straight so then there isn't any stress relief
20:05 <@Bahhumbug> 90-degree bends are never that great.
20:05 < juice> the older cards had a Multilane Screw Type connector on both ends
20:05 < juice> which was a great cable
20:06 < juice> 1 cable for the 4 drives
20:06 < juice> rather than that mini sas 4 to 1
20:06 < juice> they snapped in and locked and you had 1 plug from the card to the backplane for 4 drives.
20:07 < juice> also they had cards you had to run minisas to minisas for every drive
20:07 < juice> that sucked 4u with 24 drives had 24 cables
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21:10 <@Dagmar> Yep.  Going Postal is teh awesome
21:32 < pierut> http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/20101227/karpen-039pilebattery-produces-energy-continuously-since-1950-exists-romanian-museum.htm
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22:26 <@Dagmar> phttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/science/09romania-has-no-electricians-worth-a-shit.html?ref=science
23:24 <@Corydon76-home> Dagmar: 404
23:27 <@Corydon76-home> It's probably nothing more than a device that extracts static electricity from the surrounding air.  Put it in a vacuum and it will cease to function
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--- Log closed Mon Jan 03 00:00:05 2011