--- Log opened Mon Sep 06 00:00:08 2010
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02:37 <@Evilpig> 19 years ago?  gees... pn is only up to 14 now
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07:59 <@Evilpig> so i've been doing some digging and I can't find shit to substantiate skydog's claim of cap'n crunch as a pedo
08:00 <@Evilpig> he's certainly not a registered sex offender in california
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08:18 <@Evilpig> VampirePenguin: did you find the list sign-ups?
08:58 < VampirePenguin> hey Evilpig
08:58 < VampirePenguin> ya i registered for 615 and root
08:58 < VampirePenguin> root i can access but 615 needs a mod approve
08:59 < VampirePenguin> the only thing i cant seem to figure out is the archives because the archive button takes you to the signup page
08:59 < VampirePenguin> at least on root
08:59 < VampirePenguin> ty for asking
09:10 <@Lissa> Evilpig: there is a person with his real name on the sex offender registry, but it's not the same person
09:10 <@Lissa> and that person is a pedo
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09:11 < VampirePenguin> hey Lissa
09:11 < VampirePenguin> hows the music this morning
09:11 <@Lissa> quiet. heh
09:11 <@Lissa> just woke up
09:11 < VampirePenguin> me too i cleaned now trash and mail
09:11 < VampirePenguin> im finishing irish creme kawfee
09:12 <@Lissa> i was thinking about grabbing an apple juice myself
09:12 <@Lissa> SO much homework to do
09:12 <@Lissa> :/
09:12 < VampirePenguin> i like the pomegranite cherry or those kind
09:12 < VampirePenguin> what are you majoring in
09:12 <@Lissa> Business with a concentration in Healthcare Management
09:13 < VampirePenguin> cool
09:13 < VampirePenguin> i know someone who does that live
09:13 < VampirePenguin> shes a nice woman
09:13 <@Lissa> well...i've been in the field for 12 years
09:13 <@Lissa> it just seemed logical to get a degree in it
09:13 < VampirePenguin> revalations hits quickly huh?
09:13 < VampirePenguin> lol
09:14 <@Lissa> well..it's actually a cop out because I still can't figure out what I want to be when I grow up
09:14 < VampirePenguin> i m pretty sure she had college but she also had army training
09:14 < VampirePenguin> Lissa, just keep moving forward.. thats ok... bc there are alot more ppl out there who are successful who are/were the same way
09:15  * Lissa nods
09:15 < VampirePenguin> i cant understand how someone at 5/6 cna know what major they want
09:15 <@Lissa> I want to start a not-for-profit
09:15 < VampirePenguin> sounds like peace corps
09:15 < VampirePenguin> or something of the like
09:15 <@Lissa> well..it's going to be healthcare specific
09:15 < VampirePenguin> im retired so i dont deal with any of  hat anymore
09:15 <@Lissa> lol
09:15 <@Lissa> where'd you retire from?
09:16 < VampirePenguin> they do healthcare
09:16 < VampirePenguin> here in nash
09:16 <@Lissa> yeh...but I really don't wanna get near the peace corps
09:16 < VampirePenguin> hehe
09:17 < VampirePenguin> i think besides showing leadership ability which is what companies want ... its just good on resume too
09:17 < VampirePenguin> youll figure it out
09:17  * Lissa nods
09:18 <@Lissa> I don't think polerin would want me to join the peace corps either...her parents were in it years ago
09:18 < VampirePenguin> i worked in a hospital and it was the education division where the new residents fellows would ome in
09:18 < VampirePenguin> the first thing they looked at was volunteer work
09:18  * Lissa nods
09:18 <@Lissa> i'm not much of a "build my resume up" kinda person
09:18 < VampirePenguin> kinda looked at scoores, really ddint pay too much attention on grades
09:19 <@Lissa> i'm more of a ...here it is...it's as good as it's going to get...don't like it, kiss my ass.
09:19 < VampirePenguin> the scores tehy would pay attention to were the occupation specific testing
09:19 < VampirePenguin> ya but if you want to manage effectively you have to network
09:19 < VampirePenguin> and play by te rules
09:20 < VampirePenguin> thats when you team up someone who knows how to do it
09:20 <@Lissa> there's a really good not-for-profit management center here in nashville
09:20 < VampirePenguin> how many more yrs til you finish you book work
09:20 <@Lissa> i'm planning on hooking up with them
09:20 <@Lissa> 2 years
09:21 < VampirePenguin> so youre halfway?
09:21 <@Lissa> yep
09:21 < VampirePenguin> cool whooo hoooo
09:21 <@Lissa> it's been 10 years in the making
09:21 < VampirePenguin> nods.. one c lass at a time
09:21 <@Lissa> heh...well...i'm doing 12 hours this semester
09:21 <@Lissa> hence so much homework
09:21 < VampirePenguin> well i can think of 20 not for profits here but i dont knwo any who do mgmt
09:22 < VampirePenguin> so your ft this semester
09:22 <@Lissa> oh yeh
09:22 <@Lissa> and will probably be next semester too
09:22 < VampirePenguin> 50hrs class/homwk and 50hrs or work
09:22 < VampirePenguin> rest you collapse or or a ora
09:22 < VampirePenguin> i wont say
09:22 < VampirePenguin> hehe
09:23 <@Lissa> yeh...not too easy to work fulltime and go to school fulltime, but i'm doing it
09:23 < VampirePenguin> youre not abnormal at that
09:23 < VampirePenguin> lots of ppl do
09:23 <@Lissa> yeh
09:23 <@Lissa> just makes me snippy
09:23 < VampirePenguin> ya stressed
09:23 <@Lissa> trying to maintain a 4.0 is hard
09:23 < VampirePenguin> gotta find your zen spot
09:24 <@Lissa> it's usually buried under blankets, pillows, with polerin's knee in my back
09:24 < VampirePenguin> lol
09:24 < VampirePenguin> hey if it works
09:24 < VampirePenguin> polerin likes it
09:24 < VampirePenguin> hehe
09:24 <@Lissa> heh..yeh
09:24 < VampirePenguin> how long u all been together
09:24 < VampirePenguin> ur f/f righ?
09:25 <@Lissa> 10 years
09:25 < VampirePenguin> wow... thats good
09:25 <@Lissa> yeh...lot of work
09:25 < VampirePenguin> oh i know it is
09:25 < VampirePenguin> been there
09:25 < VampirePenguin> 2x
09:26  * Lissa nods
09:26 < VampirePenguin> ya i get in lots of trouble around here with conservative types
09:26 <@Lissa> why for?
09:26 < VampirePenguin> cause im not
09:26 <@Lissa> lol..me either
09:26 <@Lissa> i just avoid them like the plague
09:27 < VampirePenguin> extremely liberal
09:27 < VampirePenguin> but i pretty much act conservatively
09:27 < VampirePenguin> go figure
09:27 <@Lissa> people at work, for a long time, thought I was a republican
09:27 <@Lissa> which I find hilarious
09:27 < VampirePenguin> its hard to avoid to whole state
09:27 <@Lissa> not really.  i'm uber l337 ninja
09:28 < VampirePenguin> ya i actaully did something my ply sci teacher said that so few ppl do.. she was surprised
09:28 < VampirePenguin> most go from dem >> rep may lib
09:28 < VampirePenguin> i went from rep >> demo
09:28 <@Lissa> heh..yeh
09:28 <@Lissa> dont' see that often
09:28 < VampirePenguin> she was a good teacher
09:28 <@Lissa> welp...i'm gonna go grab my apple juice and get started on homework
09:28 <@Lissa> :/
09:29 < VampirePenguin> ok
09:29 < VampirePenguin> good talking
09:29 <@Lissa> i'll be around later tonight...gotta build a printer stand later
09:29 < VampirePenguin> build?
09:29 <@Lissa> yeh...wood, nails, glue
09:29 < VampirePenguin> mines a cherry end table
09:29 <@Lissa> hehe
09:29 < VampirePenguin> milk crates i say
09:29 <@Lissa> i like building things
09:29 < VampirePenguin> cool
09:30 < VampirePenguin> i have this custom oak bed/dresser combo
09:30 < VampirePenguin> its all modular
09:30 < VampirePenguin> its really cool
09:30 <@Lissa> cool
09:30 < VampirePenguin> havy as shit too
09:30 <@Lissa> i bet
09:30 < VampirePenguin> kk cyas
09:30 <@Lissa> k :)
09:30 <@Lissa> have a good one
09:30 < VampirePenguin> tell pol hi
09:32 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: most people who go from liberal to conservative are older; generally the more mature one becomes, the farther to the right they end up
09:33 < VampirePenguin> nods
09:33 < VampirePenguin> i went upstream
09:33 < VampirePenguin> the other way
09:33 < VampirePenguin> dont like to follow crowds
09:34 < Mercster> yeah but how old are you
09:34 < VampirePenguin> 42
09:34 < VampirePenguin> this was 12 yrs ago
09:34 < Mercster> well then you certainly buck the trend
09:34 < VampirePenguin> i buck everything
09:34 < VampirePenguin> im a pragmatic, eccentric, ecletic antidisestablishmentarianist
09:35 < Mercster> im a christian fascist
09:35 < VampirePenguin> oh oooeeeeooooo
09:35 < VampirePenguin> ooooo eeee oooo
09:35 < VampirePenguin> lol
09:36 < VampirePenguin> Mercster, pretty much 99.9999% of everyone i have met in here is actaully pretty damn down to earth and like in touch with reality and how it works
09:36 < VampirePenguin> i like it
09:37 < Mercster> i disagree with pretty much 99.9999% of everyone i have met in here
09:37 < Mercster> but that's ok
09:37 < VampirePenguin> well i havent met evrybody
09:37 < VampirePenguin> but those i have
09:38 < VampirePenguin> lets just disagree now so i can keep up ur ratio
09:38 < VampirePenguin> lol
09:38 < Mercster> k :)
09:38 < VampirePenguin> chocolate rules... strawberry drools
09:38 < VampirePenguin> there
09:38 < VampirePenguin> kk ill brb gotta go take care of trash
09:39 < Mercster> seeya
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09:48 <@sdodson> hard to find a doctor on labor day
09:49 < Mercster> you sick?
09:55 <@sdodson> eye infection i think
09:55 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: go to the ER
09:55 < Mercster> yeah i was gonna say, there's always the ER...
09:55 <@sdodson> that's expensive and shit
09:55 < Mercster> it is, yeah, thats why its for emergencies
09:55 < Mercster> do you have pinkeye or something?
09:55 < Mercster> that can probably wait
09:55 <@sdodson> ya
09:56 <@Corydon76-dig> Actually, pinkeye generally doesn't need medical attention at all
09:56 < Mercster> go to walgreens and get yourself an eyepatchn
09:56 <@Corydon76-dig> Just wash it out and keep it clean, and it'll heal itself
09:56 <@sdodson> Corydon76-dig: what to do?
09:56 < Mercster> and keep it closed and dont touch it
09:56 < Mercster> and wash your hands often
09:57 <@sdodson> ya, i've been washing the eye out
09:57 <@Corydon76-dig> avoid the temptation to rub it, unless you've just washed your hands
09:57 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: and want to wash them again afterwards, yeah
09:57 <@sdodson> i'll just suffer it and re-evaluate tomorrow
09:57 < Mercster> sdodson: sorry i meant to aim for your mouth :(
09:57  * Mercster whistles innocently
09:58 <@sdodson> Mercster: it's ok
09:58 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: if it's irritating to you, lubricating eyedrops will help
09:58 <@sdodson> that shit really does fuck with your eye, seen it.  But I think this was some funk from the ghetto paintball mask from the ghetto paintball place
09:59 <@Corydon76-dig> Just remember, if you go by the pharmacy section, "homeopathic" means that it doesn't work
09:59 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: heh
09:59 <@sdodson> Corydon76-dig isn't very holistic
09:59 <@sdodson> so what are you cats up to this fine monday?
10:00 < Mercster> watching anthony bourdain, they're having a marathon
10:00 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: I'm fine with holistic.  I'm not fine with expensive shit that doesn't work
10:00 < Mercster> and drinking beer
10:00 < Mercster> ya homeopathic is a crock
10:00 <@Corydon76-dig> I just got out of bed
10:00 <@Corydon76-dig> Working on fixing a test on BSD
10:00 <@sdodson> what's homeopathic actually work?
10:01 < Mercster> nothing?
10:01 < Mercster> it's water
10:01 <@sdodson> I remember FreeBSD. That was so long ago.
10:01 <@sdodson> sorry, i meant s/work/mean/g
10:01 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: like cures like
10:01 < Mercster> homeopathy is some kind of 18th century idea that tiny amounts of what ails you, cures you
10:02 < Mercster> so for instance if you have AIDS, a homeopathic treatment would be to drink a concoction of very diluted AIDS
10:02 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: they see a treatment for some similar disease, and they use something similar to that as a treatment
10:03 < VampirePenguin> if there are med stops here those are usually about $50
10:03 < Mercster> but the problem is that in 99.99% of homeopathic treatments, the amount of active ingredient is so small that it is almost impossible for even a single molecule of that substance to be in the "cure" you're taking
10:03 < Mercster> i.e. its water
10:03 < Mercster> its a crock
10:04 <@sdodson> That's exactly how flu shots work.
10:04 < Mercster> wikipedia covers it well
10:04 <@Corydon76-dig> There's also homeopathic treatments like the zinc-based stuff for the common cold.  They note that some airborne viruses are treated with a zinc compound, so they give you zinc compound as a treatement
10:04 <@sdodson> ok
10:05 < Mercster> sdodson: it's not though, there are detectable levels of the dead virus in a vaccine
10:05 <@Corydon76-dig> There's utterly no proof that it has any effect
10:05 < Mercster> the levels of the "active ingredient" in homeopathic "cures" is undetectable
10:05 < Mercster> the zinc stuff is slightly different
10:05 < Mercster> although yer right, they do hawk that under the banner of homeopathy
10:06 < Mercster> but they actually use detectable levels of zinc in that stuff
10:06 < Mercster> ive heard of people who swear by it
10:06  * Mercster shrugs
10:06 < Mercster> ive never used it, i rarely get colds. i smoke enough to give viruses cancer and die
10:07 <@Corydon76-dig> You also generally have to get colds from a person who has one... i.e. go out in public
10:07 < Mercster> yeah i avoid that as well
10:08 <@Corydon76-dig> Peaches gives me 90% of the viruses I get anymore... he goes out in public and brings it home
10:11 < VampirePenguin> sigh.. more govt paperwk
10:12 < VampirePenguin> ugh
10:20 <@sdodson> VampirePenguin: for what?
10:21 < VampirePenguin> tenncare
10:21 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: ever applied for social security benefits? now that's some paperwork
10:21 < VampirePenguin> which most likely i will turn down completely
10:22 < VampirePenguin> Mercster, my medical records and ssa rcords are 3" or more thick
10:22 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: same here. i just got social security disability last month
10:22 < Mercster> took 6 years
10:22 < VampirePenguin> its a process for sure
10:23 < Mercster> yup
10:24 < VampirePenguin> most ppl dont realize that to really be successful in a claim you have to have a historical verificalbe medical history if you dont youre usually sunk..then they dont realize what the mission statemet of ssa is which is can this person with out undue reasonable accmdations on the employer work in a consistent maner at any job.. if that answer is no.. they stamp and declare u disabled... its against law for a doctor to do s
10:24 < VampirePenguin> so
10:25 < VampirePenguin> congrats on ur eligibility
10:25 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: well you have to go through the appeals process. when i was rejected 3 or so times, and finally got in front of the judge, the "work advisor" person who was supposed to tell the court what i could do says "we dont think he could do anything"
10:25 < VampirePenguin> hopefully if you need your own housing you are using the hprp funds available
10:25 < Mercster> then 2 months or so later i was approved
10:25 < Mercster> thanks
10:25 < Mercster> its been a long process
10:26 < Mercster> i live on a KCDC property
10:26 < Mercster> rent is income based
10:26 < VampirePenguin> so its hud/sect 8 already
10:26 < Mercster> ehh, not exactly, but close
10:26 < Mercster> im not even sure of the exact classification
10:26 < Mercster> i dont think its section8/hud but its related
10:26 < Mercster> some people here may have section8
10:27 < VampirePenguin> usualy they are subsidized
10:27 < Mercster> yeah its something like that
10:27 < VampirePenguin> which is really what im meaning
10:27 < Mercster> nod
10:27 < Mercster> it is subsidized
10:27 < VampirePenguin> thats the only way they can offer low income
10:27 < VampirePenguin> althouhg in wilson county
10:27 < VampirePenguin> do you know what low income is
10:27 < Mercster> nope
10:27 < VampirePenguin> there is only one place like what you have in wilson
10:28 < VampirePenguin> $30k yr for one person is low income
10:28 < Mercster> heh
10:28 < VampirePenguin> they want to keep out the real
10:28 < Mercster> yeah knoxville has at least 6 KCDC properties that arent quite section 8 but do recieve subsidies
10:28 < Mercster> maybe you should move to knoxville
10:28 < VampirePenguin> i cant for 1.5 yrs
10:29 < VampirePenguin> hprp/hud fules
10:29 < Mercster> knoxville has a stellar reputation of caring for its' poor
10:29 < VampirePenguin> rules
10:29 < Mercster> we got a lot of the hurricane katrina people
10:29 < VampirePenguin> i would imagine
10:29 < Mercster> because knoxville is known for having many services
10:29 < VampirePenguin> so did houston
10:29 < VampirePenguin> and arizona
10:30 < VampirePenguin> its cool here.. i like
10:30 < VampirePenguin> i can see the batman bldg
10:30 < VampirePenguin> and im close to all i need want to be
10:30 < Mercster> im a little isolated
10:30 < Mercster> thinking of moving to another KCDC property
10:30 < Mercster> its across the street from a korgers
10:30 < VampirePenguin> see bus here i can get across town in 1hr
10:30 < Mercster> krogers
10:31 < Mercster> my apt *does* have a bus stop
10:31 < VampirePenguin> im trying to access van access
10:31 < Mercster> of its own
10:31 < Mercster> so thats nice
10:31 < VampirePenguin> which means door to door
10:31 < Mercster> nod
10:31 < VampirePenguin> there are times the buses are not running like night and wkends or outside of lines and i cant get there
10:31 < Mercster> yep
10:31 < VampirePenguin> if i cant i can mchra
10:31 < Mercster> the southeast isnt big on mass transit
10:31 < Mercster> well
10:31 < VampirePenguin> its a fed program too
10:32 < Mercster> knoxville isnt anyway
10:32 < Mercster> they keep scaling back the hours that busses run
10:32 < VampirePenguin> nash is on par with nyc, chicago and san fran
10:32 < Mercster> thats cool
10:32 < VampirePenguin> and they have a train out to lebanon
10:32 < VampirePenguin> 6 runs 3 am, 3pm and 1 bus
10:33 < VampirePenguin> thats a pilot program for 5 otherr lines
10:33 < VampirePenguin> i know someone who it took 10 yrs to get her ssdi
10:33 < VampirePenguin> her backpay was huge
10:33 < Mercster> yeah 6 years here
10:33 < Mercster> mine wasnt bad
10:34 < VampirePenguin> ya but the whole time you live in desperation
10:34 < VampirePenguin> thats the part that sux
10:34 < Mercster> yup
10:34 < Mercster> well i was lucky to have a supportive mother, she has helped me for many years
10:34 < Mercster> God bless her
10:34 < VampirePenguin> cool
10:35 < VampirePenguin> ya my sis was here they mved 5 months ago
10:35 < VampirePenguin> just about the time i gt approved and mved here
10:35 < Mercster> yeah, it's tough
10:35 < Mercster> keep your chin up
10:35 < Mercster> tomorrow is another day
10:36 < Mercster> if you lose hope, then you're ripe for desperation
10:36 < VampirePenguin> yep left a job on fmls, couldnt get another one or handle another one, got food stamps, got my car repo'd, scraped to coins to make doc appts
10:36 < Mercster> gotta keep hoping for better days
10:36 < VampirePenguin> life sux
10:36 < VampirePenguin> that wont change
10:36 < Mercster> eh well, it's like a rollercoaster
10:36 <@Corydon76-dig> fmls?
10:36 < VampirePenguin> and thats an improvement
10:36 < Mercster> it goes up, then down, then up, then down
10:36 < VampirePenguin> fmla
10:36 <@Corydon76-dig> Ah, okay
10:37 < VampirePenguin> my typing sometimes
10:37 < VampirePenguin> my brain goes so fast and i miss stuff of the keys dont register
10:37 < VampirePenguin> or
10:37 < VampirePenguin> when i reread it later im like huh
10:37 < VampirePenguin> lol
10:37 < Mercster> thats one thing i learned as a buddhist, thing are good for awhile then bad for awhile; the only constant is change. since ive become a christian that reality hasnt changed much, but my outlook towards it has
10:37 < VampirePenguin> it gets worse in the evening
10:38 < VampirePenguin> i had a workmate about 10 yrs ago now ... he was buddhist
10:38 < Mercster> i was buddhist for about 12 years
10:39 < VampirePenguin> he would talk about it alittle... its more from the way he explained to me a philosophy than a religion
10:39 < Mercster> true
10:39 < VampirePenguin> its intellectual
10:39 < Mercster> yes, very intellectual
10:39 < VampirePenguin> which to me is cool
10:39 < Mercster> very rational
10:39 < Mercster> yeah i thought so too
10:39 < Mercster> i dont believe it anymore, but i do have respect for it
10:40 < Mercster> i understand its attractiveness, and it has some truth in it
10:40 < VampirePenguin> he started going to do things as he was getting more serious with his finance...
10:40 < Mercster> practical truths, like what i was saying: the only constant is change
10:40 < VampirePenguin> this was like over a 4 yr time and 3 yrs i know him
10:41 < Mercster> course the bible talks about many of the same things, just in a different light
10:41 < Mercster> the book of ecclesiastes is very similar to some buddhist teaching
10:41 < Mercster> similar insights
10:41 < VampirePenguin> i can agree that change is constant... its that you can leave but you can never go back home again
10:41 < Mercster> oh sure you can :)
10:42 < Mercster> the parable of the prodigal son!
10:42 < VampirePenguin> nope its always different
10:42 < VampirePenguin> wont ever be the same
10:42 < Mercster> sure it's different, but its surmountable
10:42 < VampirePenguin> wont ever be seen in the same light
10:42 < Mercster> going home, even if it's different, isnt an impossible feat :)
10:43 < Mercster> thats all im saying
10:43 < VampirePenguin> im not talking impossible
10:43 < VampirePenguin> im saying the reality of goning home and its dynamics will never be the same when you leave and come back
10:43 < Mercster> sure, ok
10:43 < Mercster> that's true, time marches on
10:44 < VampirePenguin> ie change
10:44 <@NotLarry> Evilpig: ping
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10:44 < Mercster> but some things dont change
10:45 < Mercster> the difference between right and wrong
10:45 < Mercster> love versus hate
10:45 < Mercster> compassion versus spite
10:45 < VampirePenguin> those change too
10:45 < Mercster> i dont think so
10:45 < VampirePenguin> as wise person as they grow older recognize life is not black and white it is very greay and you just do the best you know to do
10:46 < Mercster> cultural norms may drift, but the fundamentals of what is right and wrong dont
10:46 < VampirePenguin> who determines right and wrong
10:46 < VampirePenguin> my right might be your wrong
10:46 < VampirePenguin> and vice versa
10:47 < Mercster> that's a common canard
10:47 < Mercster> what about serial killers
10:47 < Mercster> jeffrey dahmer
10:47 < VampirePenguin> what about em
10:47 < Mercster> he felt it was right to kill people and fuck their corpses and eat the remains
10:48 < Mercster> maybe that's right in some relativistic morality
10:48 < Mercster> HE thought it was the thing to do
10:48 < Mercster> why take away his rights
10:48 < VampirePenguin> to me that sounds pretty sick, but its not something i would promote or partake in
10:48 < Mercster> what about men who want to fuck 12 year old girls
10:48 < Mercster> they feel it's OK to do
10:49 < Mercster> why arent we supporting their version of morality
10:49 < VampirePenguin> thats the internet... where the men are men, the women are men and the 12 yo are fbi agents
10:49 < Mercster> or do you?
10:49 < Mercster> well we'll just agree to disagree. i believe there is an objective right and wrong
10:49 < Mercster> good and evil
10:49 < Mercster> you dont
10:49 < VampirePenguin> what your talking about is not right anworng its rule of law
10:50 < Mercster> you're not alone on the internet, but in the grand scheme of things, you're in a very small minority as compared to the majority of people on this planet
10:50 < VampirePenguin> and society has by its rule of law said this is taboo
10:50 < Mercster> so it's not wrong, just taboo?
10:50 < VampirePenguin> outlawed
10:51 < Mercster> its ok to fuck a 12 year old as long as some majority of a society or culture has deemed it permissable?
10:51 < Mercster> its ok to kill people as long as some majority of a society or culture has deemed it permissable?
10:51 < VampirePenguin> nature, karma, whatever you want to call it, even principles of science adn mathematics always find a place of equalization.. it dosnt have to be "religious'
10:51 <@Corydon76-dig> Not the majority.  Just the leadership
10:51 < Mercster> society's laws are based on cultural concepts of what is right and wrong
10:52 < Mercster> and if you live in the west, most of that is informed by judeo-christian concepts
10:52 < Mercster> you may not like it, but its the truth
10:52 < Mercster> im not saying we always get it right, either. but i think we get it right more than we get it wrong
10:53 < VampirePenguin> if it brings equalization to the energy of the universe it will happen regardless of "man" or not
10:53 < VampirePenguin> usually its in spite of man
10:53 < VampirePenguin> lol
10:53 < Mercster> not even sure what that sentence means
10:53 < Mercster> but ok
10:54 < Mercster> maybe you're a taoist? :)
10:54 <@Corydon76-dig> except that according to judeo-christian concepts, sex with 12yo's is fine
10:54 < VampirePenguin> it is if youre catholic priest
10:54 <@Corydon76-dig> It's only our modern social science that has negated that
10:55 < VampirePenguin> 50 years ago ppl got married at 12-16 yo
10:55 < VampirePenguin> so there has been change
10:55 < Mercster> i dont know the exact history of rape laws in the united states going back ~$200 years, but im pretty sure you couldnt fuck a 12 year old even before the advent of "modern social science"
10:55 <@Corydon76-dig> VampirePenguin: once a woman has hit puberty, our Christian forebears thought it was fine to immediately marry her off and for her to start rearing children
10:55 < Mercster> i also dont know what you mean by "modern"
10:56 < VampirePenguin> its not just christians
10:56 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: you could, if you married her first
10:56 < VampirePenguin> there are many socities like that
10:56 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: a 12 year old?
10:56 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: what proof do you have?
10:56 < VampirePenguin> we upped the age in america to make is wrong
10:56 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: as long as she has hit puberty, yes
10:56 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: it's only been in the past 20 years or so that 12 year olds have been hitting puberty
10:57 < Mercster> it isnt a historic phenomenon
10:57 < VampirePenguin> 12 is about right
10:57 < VampirePenguin> 8-9 isnt
10:57 <@Corydon76-dig> Remember that it's only been in the last 100 years that people have started regularly living past the age of 50
10:57 <@Corydon76-dig> There have always been exceptions, but 300 years ago, your life expectancy was about 40
10:57 <@Corydon76-dig> So 12 was middle-aged
10:58 < Mercster> erm
10:58 < Mercster> (12*2) != 50
10:58 < Mercster> maybe 24 was middle aged
10:59 < VampirePenguin> the only reason i would agrees someone over 18 now... im leaning to 25 is becasue our current society is so slow at granting and training kids with responsibiltiy and they dont have any means of providing for themselves til they are 25
10:59 <@Corydon76-dig> Okay, fine.  20 was middle-aged, so if you hadn't had half of your 20+ childbirths by then, you were a spinster
10:59 < Mercster> 20+ childbirths?
10:59 < Mercster> good lord man
10:59 <@Corydon76-dig> 20+, because half of them would die before age 2
11:00 < Mercster> not even the bible has that prodigous a reproductive cycle
11:00 < VampirePenguin> medical studies actually show that the younger a woman starts having children, the few and more children she is able to have.... if she starts older, there are generally more complications
11:00 <@Corydon76-dig> Without modern medicine to save kids from smallpox and other diseases, people had to have that many kids to ensure that a few would survive to adulthood
11:00 <@Corydon76-dig> i.e. 12
11:01 < VampirePenguin> my first wifes dad had 12.. the second was a girl.. all the others were boys
11:01 <@Corydon76-dig> It's no mistake that that's about the time that Jewish boys have Bar Mitzvah's... the ceremony towards becoming a man
11:01 < VampirePenguin> most of them had that i know of 50yr anniver and above , and they like a lot of large families are  more socially adjusted compred to smaller
11:01 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: we must equate the birthrates, and complications, in modern 3rd-world civilizations with those that might have existed ~2600 years in the past, in the levant
11:02 < Mercster> we've polluted the earth a great deal
11:02 < Mercster> there are more complications nowadays than there were
11:02 <@Corydon76-dig> What we consider to be moral behavior today has only been the standard for the last 50 years or so
11:03 < Mercster> due directly from the sort of over-population and sanitary conditions created by having 300 million people on the earth
11:03 <@Corydon76-dig> Wasn't until the 1950s and Dr. Jonas Salk that we even had vaccines
11:03 < Mercster> poor people werent *alwatys* so susceptible to disease and malnutrition
11:03 < VampirePenguin> they were more so
11:03 < VampirePenguin> died at 30-40s
11:03 < Mercster> and when i say people i again mean, people in the developing world
11:04 <@Corydon76-dig> Yep
11:04 < VampirePenguin> either disease in the village or tribal wars
11:04 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: i dont think lifespan and birth survival rates are congruent
11:04 < VampirePenguin> nation states are a new idea.. on 200 yrs
11:04 < VampirePenguin> til then it was fuedalism
11:04 < VampirePenguin> and tibal rule
11:04 < VampirePenguin> its still fuedalism
11:05 < VampirePenguin> just bankerism now
11:05 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: they are, because the advances that allow kids to survive into adulthood also preserve life longer
11:05 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: its easier to keep a baby from dying than it is an old man from dying
11:05 < VampirePenguin> you might have 12 kids and 4 survive
11:05 < VampirePenguin> to 20 yo
11:05 < Mercster> especially if you have the sorts of purity/health laws that are codified in the bible (book of leviticus)
11:06 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: yes, but it's also easier to keep a 30yo from dying than it is to keep an infant from dying
11:06 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: i dont agree
11:06 <@Corydon76-dig> A 30yo can at least tell you where it hurts
11:06 < Mercster> it's easier *now*
11:06 < VampirePenguin> true that
11:06 < Mercster> we're talking about timescales in the thousands of years ago
11:06 < VampirePenguin> ouch
11:06 < VampirePenguin> not there
11:07 < Mercster> low life expectency is largely a function of degenerative diseases
11:07 <@Corydon76-dig> An infant can only tell you that SOMEthing is wrong... and it could be anywhere from an infected lung to wetness in its diaper
11:07 < Mercster> not simply keeping an infant alive past puberty
11:07 < VampirePenguin> babies are born, their immune system is strong then it goes down for about 8 days then it goes back up
11:07 < VampirePenguin> so its easy to die or catch something that first week
11:08 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: not if the society has rules about what are good foods to eat, what animals to keep away from civilization, etc
11:08 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: NOW it is, yes, because we've reduced so many of the other causes
11:08 <@Corydon76-dig> But people didn't live in the past long enough to get the degenerative diseases
11:09 < VampirePenguin> theres not enough time to do that.. and babies are born in hospitals with dieticians
11:09 < VampirePenguin> you cant change biology
11:09 < VampirePenguin> it happens to eve baby
11:09 < VampirePenguin> more ppl go in the hospital for a hangnail and come out with pnuemonia
11:10 <@Corydon76-dig> And once we preserve life past the current spate of degenerative diseases, something else will pop up that kills our elders, which we currently just attribute to "old age"
11:10 <@Corydon76-dig> and medical science will work on curing those ills
11:10 < VampirePenguin> what is it 80 yo is avg now
11:11 -!- polerin [~erin@c-68-52-5-200.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
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11:11 <@Corydon76-dig> 80-something, yes
11:11 < VampirePenguin> that was unheard of 100 yrs ago even 75
11:11 < Mercster> mid-70s iirc
11:11 < Mercster> depending on sec
11:11 < Mercster> sex
11:11 < VampirePenguin> ladies usually live longer
11:11  * polerin blinks
11:11 < Mercster> yeah
11:11 <@Corydon76-dig> VampirePenguin: Well, some people did live that long, even 100 years ago... it was just rare
11:11  * polerin is curious what she's walked into 
11:11 <@polerin> oh, life span?
11:11 < VampirePenguin> nothing just the chat room
11:11 < Mercster> polerin: did you see 'sex' and get all bothered?
11:12 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: discussion of morals, out of sex with 12yos
11:12 <@polerin> nope
11:12  * polerin blinks
11:12 <@polerin> ok
11:12 <@polerin> are we still talking about Crunch?
11:12 < Mercster> no
11:12 < VampirePenguin> no the intricacies of the catholic priests
11:12 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: point being, we've only had this idea that sex with 12yo's is unacceptable in the last 50 years or so
11:13 <@Corydon76-dig> Before then, as long as you married her first, it was fine
11:13 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: that is a severe revision of modern history
11:13 < Mercster> 50 years?
11:13 < Mercster> are you kidding?
11:13 < VampirePenguin> the whole idea of family dynamics has so been revolutinaized
11:13 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: city life advanced before country life
11:14 <@Corydon76-dig> No, I'm not kidding
11:14 < VampirePenguin> shotgun marriages
11:14 < VampirePenguin> yee hawww
11:14 < VampirePenguin> lets go
11:14 < Mercster> im gonna bow out before this conversation gets too stupid
11:14  * Mercster tips his hat
11:14 < VampirePenguin> later Mercster
11:15 <@Corydon76-dig> Remember the age of Jerry Lee Lewis' first wife?
11:15 <@Corydon76-dig> in the 1950s?
11:15 < VampirePenguin> no
11:15 <@Corydon76-dig> 14
11:15 < VampirePenguin> that would have been normal
11:15 < VampirePenguin> 30/40s too
11:16 < VampirePenguin> 50s was shift after ww2
11:16 <@Corydon76-dig> He was 18 at the time.
11:16 < VampirePenguin> most states are still 16
11:16 < VampirePenguin> with parental consent
11:16 < VampirePenguin> 17 for emaciaopation
11:16 <@Corydon76-dig> Lied to the British press, said she was 16.  They crucified him because she was just 16.
11:16 < VampirePenguin> emancipation
11:16 < VampirePenguin> they were civilized
11:16 < VampirePenguin> ""
11:17 < VampirePenguin> they just did it to irish 300 yrs b4
11:17 <@Corydon76-dig> Imagine what the British press would have done to him, had they known she was actually 14
11:17 < VampirePenguin> lol
11:17 < VampirePenguin> Corydon76-dig, have you ever seen tmfe
11:17 <@Corydon76-dig> tmfe?
11:17 < VampirePenguin> the man from earth
11:18 <@Corydon76-dig> Don't think so, no
11:18 < VampirePenguin> its a relatively new flick
11:18 < VampirePenguin> you might like it
11:18 < VampirePenguin> its really heady
11:18 < VampirePenguin> kinda tries to mix all we did in the convo
11:18 < VampirePenguin> and tell a story but think of something that is out of the box history wise
11:19 < VampirePenguin> i just thought it was an interesting perspective
11:20 <@Corydon76-dig> My perspective is that it's better that we wait until we're older to get married, etc.  But I'm not deceived into thinking it's due to morals.  It's due to social science discovering how to make for a better society
11:20 < VampirePenguin> i already gave opinion on that
11:20 < VampirePenguin> lol
11:21 <@Corydon76-dig> That was ultimately my point
11:21 < VampirePenguin> basically slow rate of adding responsibility to kids ... families fall apart
11:22 <@Corydon76-dig> Morals are all relative (to the time period).  Ain't no such thing as universal morality.
11:22 < VampirePenguin> id agree
11:22 < VampirePenguin> id also say there is no such thing as absolute truth except that if you think there is your deluded
11:34 < VampirePenguin> wow thats pretty good ... 7z compressed a 5gb folder 1gb plus encrypted it with aes256
11:34 < VampirePenguin> thats a lot of space when youre talking backups and if you have a slow connection
11:35 < VampirePenguin> that would be 10 hrs for me on this connection
11:36 <@Lissa> my mom married my dad when she was 14. (just catching up on conversation)
11:36 < VampirePenguin> my grandparents and great grandparents with in their teens
11:37 < VampirePenguin> takin a break Lissa
11:38 <@Lissa> yeh...my brain is swimming with numbers and facts
11:38 < VampirePenguin> thought so
11:38 < VampirePenguin> hehe
11:38 < VampirePenguin> can u read notices
11:38 <@Lissa> decided to eat some soup and drink a yoohoo
11:38 <@Lissa> i have decided that yoohoo does not go with soup
11:39 < VampirePenguin> ya i have some barley soup i should grab
11:40 <@Lissa> mine was vegetable beef with barley...heh
11:40 < VampirePenguin> thats what i have
11:41 < VampirePenguin> cept im gonna have coke cola
11:41 < VampirePenguin> i had chili and sweet pototoe yesterday
11:41 < VampirePenguin> it was good
11:41 <@Lissa> i should have probably grabbed a soda out of the fridge....but the yoohoo was more enticing
11:41 -!- Falun [~richard@75-37-195-222.lightspeed.lsatca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:42 < VampirePenguin> my yoohooo consists of coffee adn irish creme milk
11:44 <@Lissa> hehe
11:44 < VampirePenguin> ya i love flavored milks
11:44 < VampirePenguin> its my sin
11:44 < VampirePenguin> lol
11:44 < VampirePenguin> and i wont give it up!!!!
11:45 <@Lissa> my weakness is a noah's float at JJs
11:45 <@Lissa> brb...making sure erin doesn't cut her fingers off
11:46 < VampirePenguin> lol
11:48 < VampirePenguin> place the object being cut on the counter first, then use the sharp object on it
11:48 < VampirePenguin> dont hold it in your hand
11:50 <@Lissa> hehe
11:50 <@Lissa> she was making cuts for my printer stand
11:50 < VampirePenguin> shes wood working
11:51 < VampirePenguin> nice
11:51 <@Lissa> heh. yeh
11:53 < VampirePenguin> what kind of wood
11:53 < VampirePenguin> pine?
11:53 < VampirePenguin> cherry
11:53 < VampirePenguin> mahogany?
11:53 <@Lissa> pine's too soft
11:53 < Mercster> pine is not elm
11:53 <@Lissa> we're using standard 2x2 and 2x1 ply
11:53 <@Lissa> and some kind of sheet ply
11:55 < VampirePenguin> hard on blades
11:55 < VampirePenguin> i like the melamine
11:55 <@Lissa> yeh
11:55 < VampirePenguin> its sweet
11:55 <@Lissa> i don't like how it smells though :P
11:55 <@Lissa> when it gets hot
11:55 <@Lissa> it's like...ew..burning
11:55 < Mercster> "it tastes like burning" </ralph>
11:56 <@Lissa> i'm also not a fan of melamine cuz of the formaldehyde content
12:07 <@polerin> well
12:07 <@polerin> this is just a throw togeather stand, hopefully lasting about two years
12:08 <@polerin> so it's pine 2x2, mdf for the sheeting
12:08 <@Lissa> ok..so i'm stupid
12:08 <@Lissa> i'll take it
12:08  * polerin hugs
12:08 <@polerin> you just don't do much woodwork :)
12:09 <@Lissa> and I am OKAY with that
12:09 <@Lissa> :)
12:09 <@polerin> heh
12:09 < Mercster> full on double rainbow
12:09 <@Lissa> ...
12:10 <@polerin> at this point I pretty much assume anything Mercster says is a troll :P
12:10 <@polerin> I couldn't tell if that was a comment about the weather, or about how fucking gay I am XD
12:10 < Mercster> hey lemme give you a tip
12:10 < Mercster> not everything's about you
12:10 <@Lissa> ok..dr phil
12:10 <@polerin> have you read my book?
12:11 < Mercster> http://quanta.homeip.net/polerin.jpg <-- this is about you
12:11 < Mercster> otherwise, dont worry about it
12:11 < Mercster> :)
12:11 <@polerin> lol
12:12 <@polerin> actually no, I drew that
12:12 <@polerin> it's a character in a comic a friend of mine does.
12:12  * Lissa sighs...
12:12 <@Lissa> time to go
12:13 < Mercster> seeya
12:13  * Lissa heads to in-laws house
12:14 < Mercster> polerin: you seen the microsoft ad using the double rainbow thing?
12:15 < Mercster> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jXz7NrfzsI
12:15 < VampirePenguin> wow thats good art
12:16 <@polerin> hah
12:16 <@polerin> nah that's an old sketch
12:16 < VampirePenguin> see i love pencil
12:16 < VampirePenguin> and charcoal
12:16 <@polerin> http://stevie.eclexia.net/erin/tmp_img/dragon_medium.png
12:17 <@polerin> something a lil more finished
12:17 < Mercster> i dont like the way he's looking at that cloud
12:17 < VampirePenguin> cute
12:18 <@polerin> Mercster: he's hungry.
12:18 <@polerin> anyway, later
12:25 < Mercster> byyyyeeee
12:28 < Mercster> had a show
12:28 < Mercster> trees and balloons..
12:29 < Mercster> ice cream snow
12:29 < Mercster> see you in june
12:36 < VampirePenguin> going into hibernation Mercster
12:37 <@sdodson> ohnoz
12:37 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: have a good one
12:37  * Mercster punches sdodson in the weiner
12:38 < VampirePenguin> ok
12:38 < VampirePenguin> i missed something there
12:38 < VampirePenguin> but anyway
12:40 <@sdodson> what's the original double rainbow video?
12:41 < MaxieZ> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI
12:42 < Mercster> its almost a triple rainbow!
12:42 < Mercster> WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!
12:43 <@sdodson> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qyQIKd_B68
12:45 <@Dagmar> It means those mushrooms you found weren't actually safe to eat.
12:45 < VampirePenguin> lol
12:45 < Mercster> well, listen
12:45 < VampirePenguin> damn that cheshire cat should have clued me in
12:45 < Mercster> ive seen some spectacular rainbows
12:46 < Mercster> and my reaction was uhhh...well, my reaction was one of great joy
12:46 < Mercster> ive also seen several heavenly bodies through a telescope
12:46 < Mercster> which also elicited from me a joyful response
12:46 < Mercster> so i kinda know where the double rainbow guy is coming from
12:46 < Mercster> but
12:47 < VampirePenguin> 6 yrs huh, ugh... hey are you at the TennCard stage
12:47 <@sdodson> 5000yr old heavenly bodies?
12:47 < VampirePenguin> TennCare
12:47 < Mercster> his reaction was a) extreme and b) caught on camera
12:47 < Mercster> so its hilarious
12:47 <@Dagmar> Where the double rainbow guy is "coming from" is a high dosage of psylocybin cubensis.
12:48 <@Dagmar> ...which he probably ingested without realizing that they weren't "common edible mushrooms".
12:48 < Mercster> sdodson: best thing i ever saw through my scope was jupiter and a few of its' moons
12:48 < Mercster> Dagmar: i dunno, i think he just had never seen anything in nature so cool
12:48 <@Dagmar> ...because people who eat a fistful of hallucinogenic mushrooms don't say "Oh my god WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!?" they say "Holy shit these mushrooms are great"
12:48 < Mercster> so he went of the deep end
12:48 < Mercster> i dunno
12:48 < Mercster> Dagmar: you ever seen a super-bright rainbow?
12:48 < Mercster> it's pretty awesome
12:48 <@Dagmar> Yep.
12:49 < Mercster> i just think he was sort of insulated or something
12:49 <@Dagmar> I wouldn't be freaking out searching for some deeper meaning.
12:49 < Mercster> hadnt seen anything like it before
12:49 <@Dagmar> It's the sort of basic science they teach kids about in the second grade.
12:49 < Mercster> well, ok
12:49 <@Dagmar> Take my word for it, the guy was shrooming and probably dind't know i
12:49 < Mercster> but understanding something intellectually is seperate from experiencing something
12:49 <@Dagmar> t
12:50 < Mercster> i think you're underestimating the power of nature's beauty
12:50 <@Dagmar> No, I think I've spent a lot of time hanging out with people on various hallucinogenic compounds.
12:50 < Mercster> knowing rainbows exist and seeing a very bright one are two different things
12:50 < Mercster> and ive taken LSD too, and eaten shrooms
12:51 < Mercster> i dont think it has anything to do with that
12:51 <@Dagmar> Ooh I think it does
12:51 <@Dagmar> People generally get excited about extreme atmospheric phenomena
12:51 < Mercster> well, you dont know shit. i doubt there's any reason to presume he was on drugs when he made the video
12:51 <@Dagmar> They *don't* generally become hysterical about them tho
12:52 < Mercster> i think he was just emotionally overwhelmed with the beauty of nature
12:52 < Mercster> that doesnt take away anything as far as how funny the video is
12:52 < Mercster> but ive felt similar emotions looking at natural phenomena
12:52 < Mercster> i just didnt go to the point of crying about it, and filming it, and then putting it on youtube
12:52 <@Dagmar> Whatever man.  I know my drugs and I know my druggies.
12:53 <@Dagmar> Go tell Jack Nicklaus "Hey, I've played golf and I've walked in parks"
12:53 < Mercster> um
12:53 < Mercster> are you telling me you know more about "drugs" than i do?
12:54 < Mercster> k
12:54 < Mercster> 'nuff said
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13:16 -!- Peaches1984 [ten@c-69-137-80-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
13:16 < Mercster> hi Peaches
13:26 < VampirePenguin> hi Peaches1984
13:26 < VampirePenguin> wheres ur partner in crime?
13:26 < VampirePenguin> hehe
13:27 <@Corydon76-dig> Right here
13:27 < VampirePenguin> hey Corydon76-dig
13:28 <@Corydon76-dig> Hadn't yet had my caffeine for the day
13:28 < VampirePenguin> oh heresome irish creme kawfee
13:28 < VampirePenguin> one pot
13:28 < Mercster> caffeine fucks me up
13:28 < Mercster> i cant handle it
13:28 <@Corydon76-dig> I can't do coffee
13:28 <@Corydon76-dig> I take a caffeine pill, instead
13:28 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: how do you get your caffeine?>
13:28 < Mercster> ah
13:29 <@Corydon76-dig> Or caffeine in Red Bull or soda pop
13:29 < VampirePenguin> my pill is in a big red cylinder called coca cola
13:29 <@Corydon76-dig> but the pill is cheaper
13:30 < VampirePenguin> is it a 21 on 7 off caffeine one
13:30 <@Corydon76-dig> Tastes awful, though, and I need to bite the tablet in half, so I can swallow it
13:30 <@Corydon76-dig> Walmart special 200mg
13:30 < VampirePenguin> oh ya walmart
13:30 < Mercster> mmm walmart
13:31 <@Corydon76-dig> There, I'm already feeling better
13:31 <@Corydon76-dig> 5 minutes, and it takes effect
13:31 < Mercster> sounds psychosomatic
13:32 <@Corydon76-dig> No, as in, I felt like sleeping before, and now I don't
13:34 < Mercster> that doesnt preclude a psychosomatic effect
13:35 <@Dagmar> hehe
13:35 <@Corydon76-dig> No, it doesn't, except that drinking a small amount of soda also doesn't do it for me
13:36 <@Dagmar> MMo-champion's ad supplier started using a new type of popup ad today that technically "we" don't like
13:36 <@Dagmar> ...cuz it comes up and covers about 2/3 of the screen.
13:36 <@Dagmar> Problem being, it's filling out screens with about 2/3 Milla Jovovich.
13:36 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: i drink a lot of iced tea, i figure that has some effect on me, though i often dont recognize it
13:36 <@Dagmar> I'm having a hard time really seeing that as a problem, per se.
13:37 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: you watch, it'll turn out I have the beginnings of sleep apnea, and my doctor will bitch and moan about how I need to lose weight
13:38 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: i know how you feel. you ever wake yourself up trying to get air through your nose? i do
13:38 < Mercster> i figure its the beginning of sleep apnea
13:38 <@Corydon76-dig> Nope, I sleep like a log
13:38 < Mercster> nod
13:39 <@Corydon76-dig> only thing I do is wake up and realize that my arm has gone numb under me
13:39 < Mercster> haha! that happens to me too!
13:39 < Mercster> wonder what that is
13:39 <@Corydon76-dig> A sign that I weigh too much, probably
13:39 < Mercster> i havent talked to a doctor about it
13:39 < Mercster> yeah
13:39 <@Corydon76-dig> or that I need a new mattress
13:40 <@Corydon76-dig> or pillow
13:40 < Mercster> yeah it kinda sucks
13:40 < Mercster> i know what you mean tho
13:40 < Mercster> seems some positions cause my arm to go asleep
13:40 < Mercster> then i wake up for a couple minutes
13:40 < Mercster> have to re-adjust
13:42 < Mercster> i tend to like sleeping on my side, only in the last couple years tho, ive noticed the arm-going-asleep thing
13:42 < Mercster> im not sure it has to do with weight, but i guess it could
13:42  * VampirePenguin belly dances
13:43  * Mercster throws singles at VampirePenguin 
13:43 < VampirePenguin> whoohooo
13:43 < VampirePenguin> well gotta start off somewhere... maybe one day it will ben franklins
13:43 < Mercster> heh
13:44 <@Corydon76-dig> Could also be that caffeine is a good counter to the side effects of the anxiety drugs I'm on
13:44 < VampirePenguin> usually caffeine casuse more anxieyt/panic
13:44 < VampirePenguin> though ppl with adhd can get calmer with stimulants
13:44 < Mercster> yeah thats why i stay away from caffeine
13:45 < VampirePenguin> personally i dont drink coffee for the caffeine
13:45 < VampirePenguin> i can fall asleep in secs if i put my ehad down on table
13:45 < VampirePenguin> its bc it lowers uric acid for me
13:45 <@Corydon76-dig> Well, the anxiety never really bothered me, until the sympathetic effects kicked in
13:46 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: the idea is that the stimulants excite the part of the brain that is involved in regulating behavior
13:46 < VampirePenguin> hope u stay at just low level anxiety and never get a panic attack
13:46 <@Corydon76-dig> I can deal with anxiety.  I just can't deal with the sympathetic stomach pain it causes
13:46 < Mercster> i had heavy panic attacks in my late teens/early twenties
13:46 < Mercster> clonazepam saved my life
13:47 < VampirePenguin> Corydon76-dig, i greatly understnad upper gi issues
13:47 < VampirePenguin> nausea sux
13:47 <@Corydon76-dig> I use propranolol for panic attacks
13:47 < VampirePenguin> vomiting at 90mph on the freeway sux more
13:47 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: quite an old drug...
13:47 <@Corydon76-dig> Beta blocker.  Cheap, too
13:47 < Mercster> but hey if it works and your side effects are in check, go for it
13:47 <@Corydon76-dig> Main trigger for my panic attacks are large crowds/meeting new people
13:48 < Mercster> clonazepam was my savior
13:48 < VampirePenguin> nods
13:48 < VampirePenguin> so some agrophobia there too
13:48 < Mercster> benzodiazpene
13:48 <@sdodson> ahyeeeeeeeeeeee
13:48 < VampirePenguin> kons are good
13:48 < VampirePenguin> hey sdodson
13:49 <@Corydon76-dig> VampirePenguin: No, not really.  If it weren't for the sympathetic symptoms, I could get away with no prescriptions at all
13:49 <@Dagmar> Fucking what is with the lazy bitch helpdesk people
13:49 <@sdodson> kons= cons?
13:49 < VampirePenguin> klons
13:49 < VampirePenguin> typing pebcak
13:49 < Peaches1984> Hello
13:49 < Mercster> i imagine he meant klonopin
13:49 < Mercster> trade name for clonazepam
13:49 <@Dagmar> They're supposedly fucking open today, but I've got people tapping on MY goddamn window to get help because the asshole in there isn't even acknowledging he sees them
13:49 < VampirePenguin> Dagmar, they dont give a shit
13:49 <@Dagmar> I'm about to make them give a shit
13:50 <@sdodson> OH NO YOU DIDNT!
13:50 <@Dagmar> ...cuz I'm about to have to call a director back about another issue and I'll mention it to him.
13:50 <@Corydon76-dig> I have an appt with my doctor this week, so I'll go over all of this with him
13:50 <@Dagmar> He'll call up their psycho bitch of a boss and she'll sort some shit out if she can be bothered to pick up the phone at all
13:50 < VampirePenguin> Corydon76-dig, you ever done cbt
13:50 < VampirePenguin> might help ya
13:50 <@Corydon76-dig> cock-ball-torture?
13:50 < VampirePenguin> that helps too
13:50 < Mercster> cognitive behavioral therapy
13:50 < VampirePenguin> but only ur partner
13:51 <@Corydon76-dig> No, I've never had therapy
13:51 < VampirePenguin> usually thre first big thing is to slow down and breathe really really deeply
13:51 < VampirePenguin> oxgenating the brain lessens anxiety
13:51 < Mercster> ive had problems finding a therapist who "gets me"
13:52 < VampirePenguin> nods
13:53 < VampirePenguin> Corydon76-dig, thyroid and ulcers/heart burn can cause stomach upset
13:53 <@Corydon76-dig> VampirePenguin: that's what I do when I'm out in public and I realize i'm out of propranolol
13:53 < VampirePenguin> so a upper gi scope would help
13:53 < VampirePenguin> and a blood test
13:53 < VampirePenguin> a complete one
13:54 <@Corydon76-dig> VampirePenguin: yeah, I went in to see a gastroenterologist and he did a test for all that
13:54 < VampirePenguin> you had a scope
13:54 < Mercster> i should have a scope
13:54 <@Corydon76-dig> Yep, don't remember a thing between 5 seconds after the needle went in, and when I woke up in the recovery room
13:55 < Mercster> i have no doubt my stomach looks like raw beef
13:55 < VampirePenguin> ya me 2 on the 2nd time
13:55 < VampirePenguin> they did biopsy then
13:55 <@Corydon76-dig> Hiatal hernia was the only thing wrong
13:55 < Mercster> all the stress ive had
13:55 <@Corydon76-dig> Not enough wrong to do anything to fix it, though
13:56 < VampirePenguin> nods Mercster my stress level on scale 1-10 == 25
13:56 < Peaches1984> corydon76-dig there is a chance for showers tue-sun this next week.
13:56 < VampirePenguin> you think it would hurt though
13:56 <@Corydon76-dig> There's a chance I might take a shower in the next 10 minutes
13:57 <@sdodson> There's a change I might take a shower in the next 10 days.
13:57 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: most of my stress came through childhood shit. i dont stress much these days, ive learned not to care anymore. but i have panic disorder, plus gastric reflux as a result of all the past trauma
13:57 < Mercster> so i take my psych meds plus eat a beta blocker every day
13:57 < VampirePenguin> i understand
13:58 < Mercster> so that my stomach doesnt explode on me
13:58 < VampirePenguin> omeprazole is my baby
13:58 < Mercster> yes thats what im on
13:58 <@Corydon76-dig> Ditto
13:58 < VampirePenguin> tums, zantac all make it worse
13:58 < Mercster> omeprazole works damn good
13:58 <@Corydon76-dig> Proton pump inhibitor
13:58 < VampirePenguin> its a different class than zantc
13:58 < Mercster> i lived on zantac for years
13:58 < Mercster> but i was taking massive doses
13:59 < VampirePenguin> mine is 2x day
13:59 < Mercster> omeprazole works for me at lower doses
13:59 < VampirePenguin> am/pm
13:59 < Mercster> nod
13:59 < VampirePenguin> if i miss a dose
13:59 < VampirePenguin> im not a happy puppy
13:59 < Mercster> i hear ya
13:59 < VampirePenguin> some days jsut haveing all my doses im not
13:59 < Mercster> aint nothing funny about reflux
13:59 < Mercster> itll make your life hell
14:00 < Mercster> i take omeprazole once a day, it seems to work
14:00 < VampirePenguin> try having the sense of smelll that is a strong and stronger than a pregnant woman
14:00 <@Corydon76-dig> Nothing's funny about pain.  If it weren't for the pain, I wouldn't be on anything at all
14:00 < VampirePenguin> add nausea to that
14:00 < Mercster> well i started drinking heavily, that seems to help on the nausea
14:00 < Mercster> im sure its no good for any other reason
14:00 <@Corydon76-dig> alcohol makes my stomach hurt more
14:00 < VampirePenguin> it messes up liver
14:01 < Mercster> but if you start drinking regularly, your stomach starts not to be so nauseous
14:01 <@Corydon76-dig> All of the drugs mess up your liver
14:01 < VampirePenguin> i can barely finish a drink now
14:01 < Mercster> im not recommending it
14:01 < Mercster> im just sayin', thats my experience
14:01 < VampirePenguin> ya barley calms
14:01 < VampirePenguin> i just do it with odouls
14:01 < Mercster> heh
14:01 < VampirePenguin> still get the barley none of the alchohol
14:01 < Mercster> nod
14:02 < Mercster> i think most of my past nausea was related to my panic/anxiety disorder
14:02 <@Corydon76-dig> Heh, if it's barley you need, you can get it in raw form at the health food store, and forget the drinking
14:02 < VampirePenguin> all the meds im on .. fuck me over already.. add alchohol...
14:02 < Mercster> once i got that taken care of, i wasnt as sick to my stomach as much
14:03 < VampirePenguin> pineapple and papaya calm the stomach too
14:03 <@Corydon76-dig> Anyway, I think Ima go take a shower and go take the bunny to the park
14:03 < Mercster> plus becoming a drunk got me used to puking once in awhile
14:03 < Mercster> at one point in my life i was nauseous and deadly afraid of puking
14:03 < VampirePenguin> later Corydon76-dig
14:03 < Mercster> but im kind of used to puking now
14:03 < Mercster> so its not so much of a trigger-point of anxiety/nausea now
14:03 < VampirePenguin> now try it at 90mph out the drivers window
14:04 < Mercster> haha
14:04 < VampirePenguin> and not crashy
14:04 < Mercster> no thanks
14:04 < VampirePenguin> its fun i tell ya
14:04 < Mercster> i bet
14:04 < VampirePenguin> experience youll never forget
14:05 < VampirePenguin> oh thats right Corydon76-dig has th 17# rabbit
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14:09 < Mercster> i think ill drink one more beer
14:09 < Mercster> then go to bed
14:10 < VampirePenguin> later Mercster
14:10 < Mercster> IM NOT LEAVING YET
14:11 < VampirePenguin> heres your hat whats your hurry
14:11 < Mercster> :)
14:11 < VampirePenguin> i gotta figure out tenncare now
14:11 < VampirePenguin> meh
14:12 < Mercster> well
14:12 < Mercster> when i got declared disabled
14:12 < Mercster> they sent me a letter "you have tenncare now!"  two paragraphs down "you dont qualify for tenncare anymore"
14:13 < Mercster> cuz i made too much with my disability, and was enrolled in medicare
14:13 < VampirePenguin> sounds like govt
14:13 < VampirePenguin> this is for sure
14:13 < Mercster> so now im in medicare
14:13 < VampirePenguin> tenncare medicare
14:13 < VampirePenguin> is what it is
14:13 < Mercster> no tenncare is medic*aid*
14:14 < VampirePenguin> oh ur right
14:14 < VampirePenguin> ya i got that
14:14 < Mercster> yeah
14:14 < Mercster> it's complex
14:14 < Mercster> but tenncare is technically medicaid
14:15 < Mercster> and if your disability is above a certain level, you dont get medicaid (tenncare) anymore
14:15 < Mercster> you end up with medicare part A and part B
14:16 < Mercster> i recently signed up with a medicare part C plan, which is like an HMO for medicare
14:16 < VampirePenguin> i dont want either really
14:16 < VampirePenguin> stary righ where i am
14:16 < Mercster> well you're at the mercy of the govt
14:17 < VampirePenguin> i already am
14:17 < VampirePenguin> i have va benefits
14:17 < VampirePenguin> i dont want to fuck with em
14:17 < Mercster> ah well, thats good
14:17 < Mercster> thanks for serving our government
14:17 < Mercster> btw
14:17 < VampirePenguin> ya but it sounds like tenncare wants to pull me into their network
14:17 < Mercster> serving our country, rather
14:17 < VampirePenguin> ty
14:18 < VampirePenguin> it was long ago
14:18 < Mercster> doesnt matter
14:18 < Mercster> you still deserve benefits
14:18 < VampirePenguin> i pulled my shift
14:18 < VampirePenguin> somebody elses turn
14:18 < Mercster> im a strong supporter of our military
14:19 < Mercster> the only reason we have the benefits we do, is because people volunteered to protect us and our interests
14:19 < VampirePenguin> im around a lot of vets all the time.. some geez from ww2 to now
14:19 < Mercster> i dont care if you were a cook on a navy ship
14:19 < Mercster> you served us well
14:19 < Mercster> and i thank you
14:19 < VampirePenguin> the funny thing... talk about anxiety
14:19 < VampirePenguin> is the last two ladies i talked with
14:19 < VampirePenguin> guess what their mos was
14:20 < Mercster> mos?
14:20 < VampirePenguin> job
14:20 < Mercster> ah, dunno
14:20 < VampirePenguin> EOD
14:20 < Mercster> EOD?
14:20 < VampirePenguin> explosive ordiances
14:20 < Mercster> ah
14:20 < VampirePenguin> im like damn
14:20 < VampirePenguin> living life on the edge
14:20 < Mercster> right
14:20 <@Dagmar> Blowing shit up early and often
14:20 <@Dagmar> Not girls you'd really wnat to piss off
14:21 < Mercster> well, like i said
14:21 < VampirePenguin> no
14:21 < Mercster> i dont care what you did
14:21 < Mercster> if you volunteered, you're a hero
14:21 < Mercster> you could shovel shit, you could make food, you could do whatever
14:21 < VampirePenguin> i honestly think it should be 3 yr mandatory
14:21 < Mercster> it doesnt matter to me
14:21 < VampirePenguin> so many kids are punks
14:21 < Mercster> ah like israel :) or finland
14:21 < VampirePenguin> they need a drill sarge to slap em around
14:22 < Mercster> mandatory service
14:22 < VampirePenguin> it gives you a sense of what this country is about
14:22 < Mercster> i wouldnt argue with you, thats probably a good idea
14:22 < VampirePenguin> but it gives yuo college money
14:22 < Mercster> nod
14:22 <@sdodson> Israel is bad ass in that regard.
14:22 < VampirePenguin> 3 yrs
14:22 < VampirePenguin> that goes fast
14:22 < VampirePenguin> you might find you want to be 30
14:22 < VampirePenguin> or transfer to an officer
14:22 < Mercster> sure builds character though
14:22 < VampirePenguin> ya
14:23 < Mercster> i have a firm belief
14:23 < VampirePenguin> you lose that sense of entitlement real quick
14:23 < Mercster> and that belief is that everyone likes *discipline*
14:23 <@sdodson> What's the best $150-$200 video card these days?
14:23 < Mercster> it does a person good to have some discipline in their life
14:23 <@sdodson> folks are tell'n me ATI is better than nVidia
14:23 < VampirePenguin> nvidia
14:24 <@sdodson> damnit
14:24 < Mercster> im a fan of nvidia
14:24 < Mercster> but YMMV
14:24 < VampirePenguin> i have an ati
14:24 < VampirePenguin> and the free drivers in xorg 1.7/8 work fine
14:24 < VampirePenguin> but im not a gamer
14:24 < Mercster> i think the main reason i like nvidia is that it's had good linux drivers for so long
14:24 < Mercster> but
14:24 < VampirePenguin> both are about the same now
14:24 < Mercster> i think ATI has catched up
14:24 < Mercster> so yeah
14:24 < VampirePenguin> but i hear more for nvidia
14:24 < Mercster> dont ask me
14:24 < Mercster> im just an old man, and i prefer nvidia
14:25 < Mercster> for historical reasons
14:25 < VampirePenguin> ati has a nasty habit of changin apis every 6 mos
14:25 < VampirePenguin> and they dont how to make drivers
14:25 < VampirePenguin> for their own products
14:25 < Mercster> apparently ATI is a better cost:performance radio nowadays
14:25 <@sdodson> I imagine the opensource drivers for ATI are better, but they're probably not keeping up with the binary drivers from nVidia.
14:25 < VampirePenguin> i boutgh  a $50 card for my tower
14:25 < VampirePenguin> it works fine
14:25 < VampirePenguin> i havd a 19" led lcd monitor
14:25 < VampirePenguin> runs on dvi
14:25 < Mercster> my recent PC purchace came with an nvidia chip
14:25 <@sdodson> I'm not going to play games in Fedora so as long as the basic compositing works I don't care.
14:26 < Mercster> sdodson: then either would be fine
14:26 < VampirePenguin> thats more ram than waht card
14:26 < VampirePenguin> i beilieve
14:26 < VampirePenguin> kde4 sux
14:26 < VampirePenguin> i like its appps but
14:26 < Mercster> my PC came with an nvidia gt220
14:26 < Mercster> 1G vram
14:27 < VampirePenguin> sdodson, ask the archlinux guys
14:27 < Mercster> from what ive read its not great, but it'll do compositing fine
14:27 < VampirePenguin> mion or mrelding knows his cards.. alot do
14:27 < Mercster> ive always hated KDE
14:27 < VampirePenguin> kde 3.x was great
14:27 < VampirePenguin> kde4 with the plasma sux
14:28 < VampirePenguin> shit w7 with the kde clone and html win mgr.. works better
14:28 < Mercster> course i knew miguel de icaza when he was coming up with gnome
14:28 < VampirePenguin> im waiting for gnome 3
14:28 < Mercster> so ive always been partial to it
14:28 < VampirePenguin> it does all want
14:28 < VampirePenguin> and i have guake running
14:28 < VampirePenguin> so i spend more time in guake than i do on the desktop
14:28 < Mercster> guake?
14:29 < VampirePenguin> guake/yakuake are terminals.. they drop down from top with f12
14:29 < VampirePenguin> they tab and transparent
14:29 < Mercster> huh, ok
14:29 < VampirePenguin> makes it nice
14:29 < Mercster> im still using gnome-terminal
14:29 < VampirePenguin> im always using a terminal
14:29 < VampirePenguin> its core is gnome or kde terminal
14:31 < Mercster> well currently im using win7
14:31 < Mercster> it came on the new PC
14:31 < Mercster> and i have no compelling reason to put linux on it
14:31 < VampirePenguin> i had w7 on my netbook and i was trying to do a dual boot and i nuked w7
14:31 < Mercster> ive got linux on the netbook
14:31 < VampirePenguin> oh well
14:32 < VampirePenguin> i have zenwalk, arch and arch64
14:32 < VampirePenguin> im actually in the process this week of tranferring all my hdd backups to compact flash and dumping the platters
14:34 < Mercster> that's gonna cost you a pretty penny
14:34 < Mercster> CF aint cheap
14:34 < Mercster> unless your backup needs are minimal
14:34 < Mercster> my current backup strategy is a 320G USB disk
14:34 < VampirePenguin> 64gb
14:35 < VampirePenguin> all my stuff is tarred/compressed and encrypted
14:35 < VampirePenguin> for archives
14:35 < VampirePenguin> then i think im going to go loopback for my live boxen
14:36 < VampirePenguin> i dont have to change anything partitioning wise to do that
14:36 < VampirePenguin> i can encrypt the loop, and the files inside will be covered by it
14:36 < Mercster> yeah well thats why i rely on an external USB drive to backup the shit i need to
14:36 < Mercster> no partitioning mess
14:37 < VampirePenguin> without having to enc each file
14:37 < Mercster> but uh
14:37 < Mercster> i dunno what you mean by loopback
14:37 < VampirePenguin> rsync is my buddy
14:37 < Mercster> i know what loopback means traditionally
14:37 < VampirePenguin> loopback device can be a cd img .. its basically an image file
14:37 < Mercster> ah, ok
14:37 < VampirePenguin> you dump stuff in it
14:38 < VampirePenguin> its a container
14:38 < Mercster> so you're using a file as a filesystem
14:38 < VampirePenguin> root mounts and umounts
14:38 < Mercster> and just back that up
14:38 < VampirePenguin> actually you make the img, enc it, make a fs in it adn drop files in it
14:38 < VampirePenguin> correct you backup the umounted file
14:38 <@Dagmar> Oh come on
14:39 < Mercster> sounds uh
14:39 < VampirePenguin> which you could tar it and enc that adn lxsplit it
14:39 <@Dagmar> I thought everyone loved backups that always look like they were forcibly dismounted
14:39 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: that sounds like a lot of work
14:39 < Mercster> more than im willing to do
14:39 < VampirePenguin> the loopback is easy
14:39 < VampirePenguin> tar doesnt take long by itself
14:39 < VampirePenguin> openssl is fast
14:40 <@Dagmar> loop mounts are stupid-simple under Linux
14:40 < VampirePenguin> so is lxsplit
14:40 < Mercster> its just simpler to have a coherent backup strategy
14:40 < Mercster> with no loopback involved
14:40 < VampirePenguin> youre going to upload 25gb anyway so do you want be to be able to see it, and do you want to risk having a corruptioon from a big long drawn out file or break it up to bite size pcs
14:40 < Mercster> rather than relying on a single file
14:41 < VampirePenguin> the problem is in your ~ there are files that have sensitive info in them
14:41 < VampirePenguin> and you stick all that in a l/b and it can be encrypted
14:41 < Mercster> yeah but
14:41 < Mercster> ok well
14:41 < Mercster> whatever makes you happy :)
14:41 < VampirePenguin> perception is reality not truth
14:42 < VampirePenguin> there are too many in this political environ that take tidbits and make them into something theyre not.. plus i come from from a state taht is #1 in ID theft adn #50 in education
14:43 < Mercster> the problem is that you may encounter situations in which you're not able to mount a single file loopback
14:43 < Mercster> plus the performance is going to take a hit
14:43 < VampirePenguin> tests i did for my data were fine
14:43 < VampirePenguin> performance wise.. i agree there is a somewhat a drop.. but not enough to warrant not doing it
14:44 <@Dagmar> Sensitive shit in ~ there's a pam module to deal with
14:44 <@Dagmar> It's built into Ubuntu by default now
14:44 <@Dagmar> ...because the overhead is negligible.
14:44 < VampirePenguin> loopback is a kernel controlled file not userland like fuse/encfs, truecrypt so its more reliable
14:44 <@Dagmar> What?
14:44  * Mercster shrugs
14:45 <@Dagmar> I don't know how that's supposed to be more reliable
14:45 <@coil> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=34576&id=679325285 nsfw
14:45 < Mercster> i have to bow out of this
14:45 < VampirePenguin> if the bug hasnt been fixed there is a major bug in the aes ciphers with opnessl and suse/encfs... the blowfish ciphers are fine
14:45 < VampirePenguin> i lost 150 gb bc of that bug
14:45 <@Dagmar> Ah
14:45 < Mercster> i just dont see a reason to a) encrypt all your data and b) reduce it to a single loopback file
14:45 < VampirePenguin> fuse not suse
14:46 < VampirePenguin> i m just toying with ideas
14:46 <@Dagmar> Mercster: because it becomes trivial to use at that point
14:46 < VampirePenguin> Dagmar, what pam module?
14:46 <@Dagmar> It is literally trivial to have almost the entire contents of your homedir encrypted with Ubuntu, by default now
14:47 < Mercster> Dagmar: it's not more trivial than an rsync'd copy of the filesystem somewhere
14:47 <@Dagmar> VampirePenguin: I could tell you in an hour or so after I've prodded it, but all I can tell you right now is it's probably called pam_crypthome or something
14:47 < VampirePenguin> all files i move are ssh and enc
14:47 < Mercster> im sure a loopback file is trivial, but it's not convenient
14:47 < VampirePenguin> it takes 3 lines to set up a loopback
14:47 < VampirePenguin> truecrypt is kinda like it
14:47 <@Dagmar> You login, it mounts a dynamically-grown cryptfs over the top of /home/$USER\
14:47 < VampirePenguin> but no where near as complicated
14:47 < Mercster> that means the whole file needs to be mounted before you get a single file out of it
14:48 < Mercster> that's not convenient
14:48 < VampirePenguin> ya but enc is not to be noticed
14:48 < VampirePenguin> you dont want it to be obvious
14:48 < Mercster> if you need 1 file out of a 3G backup, mounting the full file is overkill
14:48 <@Dagmar> Truecrypt's main benefit is it's GUI.  You don't really need it under Linux
14:49 < VampirePenguin> truecrypt is complicated and unreliable
14:49 <@Dagmar> There's no "full file" issue with mounting a filesystem
14:49 < Mercster> ...
14:49 < VampirePenguin> its basically like a partition inside a partition
14:49 < Mercster> that's bullshit, Dagmar
14:50 <@Dagmar> Mercster: If you have 3Gb of data in a filesystem or in a zip file, either way you'll need relatively rapid access to the entire thing to get at any of it
14:50 < VampirePenguin> ive seen some good things with pam
14:50 < Mercster> any part of that file becomes damaged, and you risk losing the access to one 1k file
14:50 < VampirePenguin> my concern is if it is using fuse/encfs
14:50 < VampirePenguin> Mercster, correct
14:50 < VampirePenguin> which is why i enc now the way i do
14:50 < VampirePenguin> im just playing with a loopback
14:50 < Mercster> Dagmar: 'rapid' doesnt come into it
14:50 < VampirePenguin> i might make some smaller ones
14:50 < Mercster> Dagmar: we're talking about data availability
14:51 < VampirePenguin> its a cool idea
14:51 < VampirePenguin> 40gb is too large
14:51 <@Dagmar> YOu don't lose the rest of a filesystem just becasue any randomly-chosen sector gets damaged.
14:51 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: it is, i wont argue with you there
14:51 < VampirePenguin> i enc this way now.... after my 150gb loss
14:51 < VampirePenguin> take a file/folder, tar it, openssl it, lxsplit it
14:51 < VampirePenguin> transfer
14:52 < VampirePenguin> i even abandoned gpg
14:52 < VampirePenguin> bc of its over complexity and its not easily xplatform
14:52 < VampirePenguin> open ssl is
14:52 < Mercster> well
14:52 < Mercster> ok
14:52 <@Dagmar> what
14:52 <@Dagmar> hehehe
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14:53 < Mercster> im relying on my 330G external USB drive
14:53 < VampirePenguin> im intimidated by gpg if it had to be installed on wintel
14:53 < VampirePenguin> openssl you can do in 10 mins
14:53 < Mercster> thats what i use to backup my data
14:53 < VampirePenguin> its the same thing
14:53 <@Dagmar> I never really had a problem using gpg under Windows
14:53 < VampirePenguin> by partition
14:53 < Mercster> and im not making a filesystem of any single file :)
14:53 < VampirePenguin> Dagmar, try to install it
14:53 < Mercster> you do what you want
14:53 < VampirePenguin> not use it
14:53 < VampirePenguin> you need 3 rocket sci degrees
14:54 <@Dagmar> VampirePenguin: Iv'e done so several times.  Easiest thing to do is just slap Cugwin/X down on the machine
14:54 < VampirePenguin> i dont cygwin
14:54 < Mercster> i love cygwin
14:54 <@Dagmar> It's not _fast_ but it at least involves very little in the way of problem-solving skills.
14:54 < VampirePenguin> normal user box
14:54 < VampirePenguin> cygwin is kinda techy
14:54 < VampirePenguin> not found on everyday box
14:55 < VampirePenguin> gpg if you lose your private key youre screwed
14:55 < VampirePenguin> if someone gets in your ~ youre screwed
14:55 < VampirePenguin> they cant do that wit hopenssl
14:55 <@Dagmar> ftp://ftp.gnupg.org/gcrypt/binary/gnupg-w32cli-1.4.10b.exe ,-- very hard to install.
14:55 <@Dagmar> VampirePenguin: Bullshit
14:56 < VampirePenguin> there is not a key to steal unless they get in your head
14:56 <@Dagmar> If you aren't putting a password on your keyring, you're just an idiot.
14:56 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: technically, you should be using a passphrase for those
14:56 < VampirePenguin> theres .gnupg folder with your keys all in it in ~
14:56 < VampirePenguin> there for the picking
14:56 <@Dagmar> Stealing the keyring alone isn't going to accomplish shit without your password for it, which puts it on the same footing as the reason you're using openssl
14:56 < Mercster> Dagmar: you're talking to someone who makes backups by encrypting a loopback file of their filesystem
14:57 <@Dagmar> Mecster: yeah I know.  It's fuckin' easier to just have it encrypted already
14:57 < Mercster> Dagmar: if he wants to go to those lengths, let him
14:57  * Mercster shrugs
14:57 <@Dagmar> I'm just combating bogons
14:57 < VampirePenguin> no no... i said you enc the loopback container
14:58 < VampirePenguin> i mentioned you can also encrypt the file
14:58 < VampirePenguin> after the fact.. ie closed
14:58 < VampirePenguin> im just toying with ideas
14:59 < VampirePenguin>  take a file/folder, tar it, openssl it, lxsplit it
14:59 < VampirePenguin> <VampirePenguin> transfer
14:59 < VampirePenguin> thats what i do
14:59 < VampirePenguin> thats not complicated
14:59 <@Dagmar> Too much work.
14:59 < VampirePenguin> how is 5 steps too much work
15:00 <@Corydon76-dig> It's not too much work if you set up automation for it
15:00 < VampirePenguin> cron job is easy
15:00 <@Corydon76-dig> I was thinking at, but similar idea
15:00 < VampirePenguin> i have too many things that change though and i have to monitor them
15:01 < VampirePenguin> lxsplit == 512 mb pc
15:01 < VampirePenguin> so it makes it easy to u/l, put on cd/dvd
15:01 <@Dagmar> dd if=/dev/urandom of=~/cryptofs.img bs=1m count=20 ; losetup -e aes-jillions /dev/loop0 ~/cryptofs.img ; mkfs.ext3 /dev/loop0 etc etc
15:01 < VampirePenguin> and it goes on any fs
15:01 <@Dagmar> Or you can just use ubuntu and let it keep your whole homedir encrypted all the time
15:02 <@Dagmar> ...or spend the couple of hours it takes to figure out how to shoehorn that into other distros that have PAM available
15:02 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: still need to encrypt the backups, though
15:02 < VampirePenguin> thats where loopback file if it is enc already
15:02 <@Dagmar> Only if you backup the individual files
15:02 < VampirePenguin> just lxsplit it and transfer
15:03 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: well, you generally have to.  Unmounting the filesystem so you can back it up is not generally possible on production systems
15:03 <@Dagmar> This is userspace stuff tho
15:03 < VampirePenguin> even userspace
15:03 <@Dagmar> Crap that just got downloaded from a distro repo doesn't necessarily need encryption hehe
15:03 < VampirePenguin> you dont want to have stop watching hulu
15:04 < VampirePenguin> while youre waiting for the upload
15:04 <@Corydon76-dig> Even so, when mounted, filesystems are not in a snapshot-able state
15:04 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: you're describing Linux alone, of course, im sure you're aware
15:04 <@Corydon76-dig> unless the FS supports that
15:04 <@Dagmar> Yay journaling filesystems... letting us get away with otherwise stupid shit
15:04 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: Well, some Unix OS's have FSs that support snapshot backups
15:05 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: well, most do.
15:05 <@Corydon76-dig> Not talking about journalling, either, though.
15:05 < Mercster> HP-UX, AIX
15:05 < Mercster> DEC Tru64
15:05 <@Corydon76-dig> You have to be able to snapshot the whole thing long enough for you to get the entire thing to tape
15:06 <@Corydon76-dig> or whatever backup medium you're using
15:06 <@Corydon76-dig> encrypting the stream of individual files, as it goes to tape is far easier
15:08 < Mercster> ive worked in quite a few UNIX shops, government even, and encryption was never much of a concern
15:08 <@Corydon76-dig> Well, that's another subject entirely
15:08 < VampirePenguin> thats changing
15:08 < Mercster> as long as the backups themselves were as physically secure as the servers themselves
15:08 < Mercster> which was pretty fucking secure
15:08 < Mercster> :)
15:09 <@Corydon76-dig> IFF you can keep your backups secure, it's not an issue.  IF your backups are going offsite, there's always a remote chance, and this has occurred, that a tape gets lost
15:09 <@Corydon76-dig> No idea if that means it falls into the wrong hands or not, but if you cannot find it, you have to assume that it did
15:09 < VampirePenguin> i can send em to the VA now, but no one inside can reply all communication has to be done in person, by phone or fax
15:09 <@Corydon76-dig> and then you get to deal with the privacy implications thereof
15:10 < VampirePenguin> soon they will be adding website only no emails
15:11 <@Corydon76-dig> More likely, it fell out of a container somewhere and it ended up, mutilated beyond recognition, in a landfill
15:12 < VampirePenguin> lol you hope
15:12 <@Corydon76-dig> but you still have to figure out whose information was on that tape and inform them that the tape was lost, identity theft crap, blah blah blah
15:13 < VampirePenguin> an that your not an ex VA employee whos laptop was stolen with 100000 names and ssns of vets in it
15:13 < Mercster> i put a spell on you...
15:13 < Mercster> BECAAAAAAUUUUUSE YOU'RE MINE
15:14 <@Corydon76-dig> VampirePenguin: and most likely, the laptop was reformatted by a thief who had no idea what he really had, and sold to an unsuspecting buyer who just wanted a laptop for their kid
15:14 < VampirePenguin> no actually it was recovered
15:14 < VampirePenguin> a couple months later
15:14 < VampirePenguin> the data was never accessed
15:14 <@Corydon76-dig> VampirePenguin: I mean, in terms of the typical path for stolen laptops
15:14 < VampirePenguin> ya if the hdd not locked
15:14 < VampirePenguin> lol
15:15 <@Corydon76-dig> Anyway, I'm going to go take the bunny to the park.  Later.
15:15 < VampirePenguin> bunny
15:15 < VampirePenguin> hehehe
15:15 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: dont let it eat any small dogs
15:15 < VampirePenguin> that thing is sooo huge
15:15 <@Dagmar> Fisker: LOL
15:15 < Mercster> that rabbit is fuckin huge
15:15 <@Corydon76-dig> Heh, it scares the crap out of small dogs
15:15 < Mercster> VampirePenguin: :)
15:16 <@Corydon76-dig> and cats
15:16 <@Dagmar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOSpCoCmOns was just given to me
15:16 <@Dagmar> His comment was "you gotta be kidding me"
15:16 < VampirePenguin> i have the pick downloaded.. it will up as a wallpaper for awhile
15:16 <@sdodson> I bet womens tennis pros are loud in bed.
15:18 < Mercster> sdodson: racisgt
15:18 < Mercster> RACIST!
15:19 <@sdodson> Mercster: how's that?
15:21 <@sdodson> Someone tell dagmar that it also works with Palm Pre or Nokia N900.
15:23 <@sdodson> he ignores me because he fears my superior intellect
15:31 <@Dagmar> CNN's about to put their feet in it
15:33 <@Dagmar> They're going to catch some shit for not looking at that all the other sites on the web do just about nothing to keep prostitution off their site
15:35 <@Dagmar> I can actually name two sites that the local news media didn't have the good goddamn sense to NOT mention the sitename when they reported on some recent prostitution stings
15:35 <@Dagmar> ...and they have rather explicit ads.
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15:37 <@sdodson> WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!
15:46 < VampirePenguin> i think of children... im glad u have them and i dont
15:48  * VampirePenguin taps polerin on the shoulder hoping she isn't weilding some 40" chainsaw... hey hows the construction going?
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22:44 <@Dagmar> http://www.memestreams.net/thread/bid85691/
22:46 <@Dagmar> Kraps: This will make you feel better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g&feature=player_embedded
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 07 00:00:08 2010