--- Log opened Tue Aug 03 00:00:57 2010
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08:54 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
09:45  * Corydon76-dig yawns
10:02 <@mtown_nerd> Anyone have any experience with RFID security on copiers?
10:02 <@mtown_nerd> Or any endpoint device, really...
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13:02 < todd> gah wtf.. mouse is wigging out
13:05 < epoxy> todd, maybe you got haxed
13:07 < todd> Either that or 2.4ghz is an overworked mule of a frequency.
13:13 <@Dagmar> I like the wireless thing but it's not cool enough to make up for when the batteries die
13:16 < todd> I keep rechargable batteries under my desk beside the dead hooker.
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13:22 <@Dagmar> That's all well and good but still, the first time you have them crap out in the middle of a boss fight or something... pfft.
13:23 < todd> Oh well that's different. For most things I can work without a mouse at work.
13:23 < todd> All wired at home.
13:28 <@Dagmar> I think it's time to pave the neighborhood
13:28 <@Dagmar> I freakin' spent the weekend purging my apt of dust and crap and still come down with shit
13:31 <@Dagmar> At least there's no cleaning left to do
13:32 < polerin> Dagmar: that's why I leave the mouse wired most of the time, then only when I'm actually in game do I shift to wireless so as not to tangle
13:32 < polerin> works pretty well for me, mouse so far has a ~24 hour charge if I keep it going
13:32 <@Dagmar> Dangle the mouse cord off the backside of your desk if it's open-backed
13:32 < polerin> yerp
13:35 <@Dagmar> I've got my mouse plugged into a USB port on the back of my keyboard, so the 6ft mouse cable has about three foot of cable dangling off the back and keeps the extra mouse cabling out of the way by gravity
13:37 < polerin> my issue tends to be lack of space right now, and I don't want to tap the cable at the mouse on the corner of the keyboard
13:37 < polerin> course, FPS vs WoW, so it may be an issue of how much I move the mouse as well.
13:38 <@Dagmar> argh
13:38 <@Dagmar> I was trying to tie OPie (mouse-pointer centered radial menu) to TidyFrames last night, but the cough medicine is making me not want to do much beyond just lie back on the bed.  bleh
13:39 <@Dagmar> Well, the cough is definitely doing it
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13:44 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: how's the recovery coming along?
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13:53 < polerin> pretty well actually
13:54 <@Corydon76-dig> Sore?
13:54 < polerin> somewhat
13:55 < polerin> being careful and trying to take it sorta easy
13:55 < aestetix> hey
13:55 <@Corydon76-dig> So exercising and lifting heavy boxes today?
13:55 < aestetix> how much did it cost to get the phreaknic condoms printed up?
13:56 <@Corydon76-dig> I'd have to look
13:58 <@Corydon76-dig> Just north of $600
13:59 < polerin> heh, no
13:59 < polerin> not yet
14:00 < polerin> another 3 weeks before I can do any substantial exercise, and 6 more than that before I can get back to contact activities.
14:04 < aestetix> how many did you print up?
14:07 <@Corydon76-dig> I don't remember.  somewhere between 900 and 1500, I think
14:08 < aestetix> ok, cool
14:08  * aestetix is about to abuse freedom of speech through condoms
14:08 <@Dagmar> okay
14:08 <@Dagmar> the coughing is messing with my head but I'm pretty sure you're going to need to explain that one
14:09 < aestetix> it's simple
14:09 < aestetix> I run an event called 'five minutes of fame' in SF
14:09 <@Dagmar> nah i respectfully disagree there
14:09 <@Dagmar> hehe
14:09 < aestetix> And instead of fliers, we have decided to print up condoms
14:09 <@Dagmar> 'Okay
14:09 < aestetix> condoms that say five minutes of fame :p
14:09 <@Dagmar> Being that they're condoms, perhaos _two_ minutes of fame is more appropriate, but at least I get it now
14:10 <@kive> I don't think I ran into -any- of you guys at blackhat or defcon, aside from skydog. :P
14:10 < aestetix> I can't wait to pass these out at work
14:10 <@Dagmar> kive: 1. Blackhat is pricey if the office isn't paying for it, and 2. we didn't go *sigh*
14:11 <@Dagmar> I loved the coverage on the ATM hacks tho
14:11 <@Dagmar> Making the ATM actually say 'jackpot' is masterful
14:11 < aestetix> well it's like
14:12 < aestetix> "ca-ching" is the best safeword ever
14:12 <@Dagmar> Someone's definitely gotta start leaning on the finance industry, clearly
14:12 <@kive> dagmar: oh, I know it is -- that's why I worked BH as staff. Get's me there, and much lower price tag. Sorry to hear a lot of folks couldn't make DC, at least, tho
14:12 <@Dagmar> kive: Well, for me there's the issue of heat-sensitivity
14:12 <@kive> was a good con. Kinda strange with everyone all grown up and staying out of trouble, tho
14:12 <@Dagmar> I'm exactly the kind of freak that would be a regular at Burning Man otherwise
14:12 <@kive> DT announced next year is at the Rio, if anyone hadn't heard.
14:12 <@Dagmar> They need to have another one somewhere cooler called "Freezing Man"
14:13 <@Dagmar> I'mma have to plan to go next year for sure
14:13 <@kive> Freezing Man would be cute.
14:13 <@Dagmar> Getting tired of feeling out of the loop
14:13 <@Dagmar> kive: Seriously, above 100F I start to malfunction
14:14 <@Dagmar> ...but I'm good with just a t-shirt down to 45f so long as there's not a stiff wind
14:14 <@kive> Well, I'll be working BH and DC again, so be sure to meet up if you do go. Haven't seen most of the folks in here in forever (or never have).
14:14 <@Corydon76-dig> kive: are you coming to PhreakNIC 14 this year?
14:14 <@kive> There are also some hotels with REALLY good a/c ;)
14:14 <@Dagmar> What I need is a heat-sink suit that won't make me look like a cut-rate superhero
14:15 <@Dagmar> kive: Yeah but the last time I went it was still like walking into a pizza oven going between places in the day
14:15 <@kive> corydon76-dig: if it looks interesting, I try to make it up there. I treat PN as a social event for the most part.
14:15 <@Dagmar> And I mean that literally.  I kept expecting to smell pizza
14:15 <@Corydon76-dig> kive: Understood.  I'll attempt to get some of the speakers up in the next several days
14:16 <@kive> mebbe it would feel better if you actually were carrying a pizza? :)
14:16 <@kive> corydon76-dig: cool beans. :)
14:16 <@Dagmar> kive: I doubt it.  You're supposed to put the pizza on the belt and let it ride through, not hand carry it to the other side
14:17 <@kive> dagmar: yes, but you could claim infringement on every other person out there claiming to make "hand-made pizza" perhaps?
14:17 <@kive> could be worth doing -once-
14:17 <@kive> ;)
14:17 <@Dagmar> All that extra money would get wasted on burn ointment
14:17 <@Dagmar> Autumn needs to go ahead and get here
14:17 <@Dagmar> Mother Nature needs to cut this pollenating shit out
14:17 <@kive> maybe one of the mexicans working the girls-girls-girls handouts on the vegas strip?
14:18 <@kive> oh, I ran the tamper evident contest at DC this year, which was -fantastic-. Would love to see a local team work on that at some point. ;)
14:18 <@Dagmar> ...and possibly I need to freaking not go outside on the day when the landscapers are here
14:18 <@kive> breaking into tamper-proof/tamper-evident stuff, etc...
14:18 <@kive> I'll have a decent preso of what we found in the next week or so for folks to peek at.
14:19 <@kive> And DT/Nikita confirmed that I'll be running that for the forseeable years to come
14:19 <@Dagmar> Goody
14:19 <@kive> ack - going out when landscapers are there.. that's just game over for my allergies.
14:19 <@Corydon76-dig> kive: one of the best ways is the same as with building security... use the backdoor
14:20 <@kive> My favorite is when you see the dude with the blower aim the exhaust right at you.
14:20 <@kive> And everything goes into slow-motion.. and you -know- what's coming
14:21 <@kive> corydon76-dig: absolutely, and we saw a lot of side-channel attacks, though none I wasn't able to detect, iirc. Maybe just one through laminate that I didn't catch on the first pass.
14:21 <@Corydon76-dig> Take a pill bottle, remove the bottom, mess with the internals, glue the bottom back on.  Who looks at the bottom of a pill bottle before opening the tamper-evident seal?
14:21 <@kive> BUT, we also had a lot of novel going through the front door approaches.
14:21 <@Dagmar> kive: I think that's what maybe pushed me over the top
14:21 <@kive> Using an arduino to power a salt/HcL solution to eat through wire (not -too- novel, but the arduino did add a certain style, imo)
14:21 <@Dagmar> kive: I went out and sat in the heat for about two hours replacing the sketchy-thin wiring on my scooter
14:21 <@kive> the -best- was using hard drive magnets to defeat a metal truck lockout in <3sec
14:22 <@Dagmar> Freaking 20ga battery leads creep me out
14:22 <@kive> absolutely stunning, when two other teams had found that using wax paper or cocktail straws led to defeats in <30sec
14:22 <@Dagmar> They were out there mowin
14:23 <@kive> good work towards establishing a body of knowledge on some of these devices and how poor they back up their claims, and also got a solid crew of folks working together on it.
14:23 <@Dagmar> I think I'm just gonna leave the thing alone until the temps go back down.  100F is definitely too hot to be riding it
14:23 <@kive> might be black-badge next year, even. We gave out some human-badges for this year, as a 1st yr event
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14:33 < polerin> Corydon76-dig: speaking of PN, did you see the idea of running a water gun assasin game?
14:36 <@Corydon76-dig> Uh, no?
14:36 <@kive> seems like a waste of tequila, polerin. ;)
14:37 < polerin> Corydon76-dig: sign up, you get a target, when you take out your target, you get theirs, so on
14:37 < polerin> winner is who survives, though we might be able to add in Most Kills, or that kind of thing
14:38 <@Dagmar> winner will probably be the person who utilizes water balloon grenades
14:38 <@Dagmar> ...lest ye forbid it
14:38 < polerin> I think that'd be a bad idea inside
14:38 <@Corydon76-dig> I think anything using water is a really bad idea at a con where electronics are common
14:38 <@Dagmar> Sure if you fill them up with a half-gallon of water
14:38 < polerin> not to mention not very subtle, and likely to draw the attention of your attacker.  I don't think you can just kill at random
14:39 <@Dagmar> I'm kinda behing C on that idea tho
14:39 <@Corydon76-dig> That's why the dunk booth remains outside...
14:39 <@Dagmar> Water + electricity == bad hair day
14:39 < polerin> yeh I thought about that.  possible varients"
14:39 <@Dagmar> polerin: Can't kill at random?  You don't get CNN at your place?
14:39 < polerin> chalk markers?
14:39 <@Corydon76-dig> and in a clear area where people can keep their electronics a safe distance away
14:39 < polerin> Dagmar: we are talking an assasination game, not a deathmatch
14:40 <@Dagmar> What we need is someone in a burka with a sprinkler hose wrapped all around their body
14:40 <@opticron> only allowed to tag your target?
14:40 < polerin> that's my understanding
14:40 <@Dagmar> Screw in a seltzer bottle and you're ready for the jihad
14:41 < polerin> yeh, though I'd hope to see at least some kind of tube running up the arm style gun
14:41 < polerin> triggered with the other hand or something like that
14:42 < polerin> sdodson said it's normally played over weeks and a much larger stage, but I figure if you compress the space, you'll get a faster game
14:44 < polerin> nerf perhaps?
14:44 < polerin> minidarts
14:45 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: oh, and water activities are an exclusion under our liability insurance
14:45  * polerin nods
14:45 < polerin> I'd like to see mini-darts though
14:45 < polerin> that would be fun
14:46 <@Corydon76-dig> Let's discuss this at the meeting on Friday
14:46  * polerin shrugs
14:46 < polerin> okies
14:47  * polerin goes to work on working on a sleeve mounted dart gun
14:47 <@Corydon76-dig> It will give me time to look over the exclusions clause, plus it will give others input
14:47 < polerin> ;p
14:47 <@Corydon76-dig> As long as it's nerf-style projectiles, I don't see a real issue with it
14:48 <@Corydon76-dig> Water, BBs, paint balls, all bad ideas
14:49 < polerin> yeh
14:49 < polerin> nerf :)
14:49 <@Corydon76-dig> I really want to hear from others on the topic, plus we'll need to figure out who will be running the contest
14:50 <@Corydon76-dig> Kelly is the natural choice, as he's in charge of other gaming
14:50 <@Corydon76-dig> but it would be up to him, as he's the director
14:52  * polerin nods
14:53 < polerin> ok, back to job hunting
15:05 < m0j0-j0j0> polerin: I have a job opening, but as we've discussed in the past, I don't think it's something you want to do and I think you're outside of our price range.
15:09 < m0j0-j0j0> They just started a new round of RaleighWars here as far as the watergun assassin thing goes.  Personally I think that nerf with chalk marker would be better.
15:18 <@Dagmar> Tin foil hats are making a comeback on WikiPedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation&diff=prev&oldid=376976536
15:37 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: nice
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15:38 <@Dagmar> Things have really gone downhill since shortwave broadcasting went out of fashion
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15:41 <@[1NF0]> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs142.ash2/40427_10150237465105424_644070423_13749880_8062351_n.jpg
15:42 <@fall0ut> hah, wtf is that supposed to be
15:43 <@Dagmar> Riding crop made of phone wiring
15:44 <@Dagmar> possibly to be called a "cat o' five tails"
15:45 <@Dagmar> mebbe three.  I can't be bothered to count the twists
15:45 <@[1NF0]> more of a cat of 36 pairs of tail
15:45 <@Dagmar> Well, we know it's not a cat 6 tail
15:46 <@Dagmar> 1nf0: Gonna be a multiple of 4
15:46 <@[1NF0]> 32, you're right dagmaar
15:46 <@Dagmar> ...unless someone was unforgivably sloppy and left a few pairs out
15:46 <@[1NF0]> Da
15:46 <@Dagmar> np
15:47 <@[1NF0]> ok, heck with trying to get that right
15:47 <@Dagmar> truly
15:47 <@Dagmar> I should have gone to the trouble of getting the cough medicine you have to fill out paperwork for
15:48 <@Dagmar> The guafensin is making me feel squirrley
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17:23 <@kive> dagmar: it's good for a cough, though, especially if it's the one with codeine in it
17:23 <@kive> better than otc alternatives
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18:04 <@Dagmar> I *really* dont' like codiene
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18:35 < fie> Dagmar, yeah, it's pretty lame.
18:35 < fie> opioids sucks
18:37 < R3d2dawn> So how is 2600 doing? Its been sometime since I have been.
18:39 <@Corydon76-dig> R3d2dawn: it's doing pretty well
18:39 <@Corydon76-dig> You should come attend the meeting on Friday
18:40 < R3d2dawn> Good! I am going to try.
18:44 <@Corydon76-dig> Sweet
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20:05 <@Dagmar> Well, at least I'm down to the point where a normal dose of cough medicine will do the trick
20:05 <@Dagmar> That's much better.
20:06 < Mercster> why do you not like codeine?
20:06 < Mercster> ive never met a human who didnt like opiates
20:06 <@Dagmar> Because the side effects are a bitch
20:06 <@Dagmar> I can't stand that general dopeyness/sleepyness unless I actually intend to sleep
20:07 < Mercster> mmkay
20:07 <@Dagmar> I just want cough medicine to stop a cough and nothing much else.
20:07 < Mercster> so you dont like a buzz, basically
20:08 <@Dagmar> I can deal with a buzz.  I don't care to feel like I'm only half awake.
20:08 < Mercster> well many buzzes make you feel like you're half awake :)
20:08 < Mercster> thats the idea
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20:09 < Mercster> maybe you're more of a cocaine, or meth man
20:09 <@Dagmar> UNderstand that "half awake" ius how I feel sober
20:09 < Mercster> feeling *very* awake
20:09 <@Dagmar> ...or at least most people's version of fully awake is only about halfway there for me
20:09 < Mercster> i can enjoy both opiates and stimulants, though i dont partake anymore
20:09 <@Dagmar> Fuck being drugged to normalcy
20:09 < Mercster> they're certainly different experiences
20:10 <@Dagmar> I'm not actually a cocaine or meth guy, in part because I've seen what meth does to people, and also in part because my neurochemistry is already abnormal so basically, _cocaine has no effect_
20:10 <@Dagmar> Like, doesn't do shit but make my nose a little numb.
20:10 < Mercster> probably didnt do enough
20:11 < Mercster> cocaine has a sort of plateau that you need to reach before you can appreciate the buzz
20:11 <@Dagmar> I went through this the last time.  It was a sizeable line and it wasn't overly cut or something.  It's just wasted on me.
20:11 < Mercster> yeah a line isnt shit
20:12 < Mercster> do 6-8 lines and you'd probably "get the point"
20:12 < Mercster> not that i recommend it
20:12 <@Dagmar> No, I wouldn't.
20:12 < Mercster> cocaine is dangerous, as is amphetamine
20:12 <@Dagmar> I'm serious.  It actually doesn't affect me.
20:12 < Mercster> for that matter, so are opiates
20:12 < Mercster> you didnt do enough :)
20:12 <@Dagmar> I did *quite* enough the last time this came up about 10 years ago
20:13 <@Dagmar> Enough to make the rest of the people in the room spazzes
20:13 < Mercster> well everyone's neurochemistry is different
20:13 <@Dagmar> This is what I've been sayin'.
20:13 < Mercster> the first 3-4 times i did cocaine i didnt feel it either
20:13 <@Dagmar> Caffiene and sugar on the other hand, send me flyin
20:14 < Mercster> it took being locked in a room with 3 other people and an 8ball before i realized "oh, this is what cocaine is like"
20:14 < Mercster> once you hit that plateau, you can do a small line and feeel it
20:14 <@Dagmar> The first time I ever did coke someone laced a joint with it.  Everyone else noticed.
20:14 <@Dagmar> I was like "why the fuck is the tip of my tongue numb"
20:15 <@Dagmar> The same "prankster" who did that was the guy who made me sit down and do a big snootful later
20:15 <@Dagmar> The things that coke makes people's brains generate, mine's cranking out most of the time on it's own
20:16 <@Dagmar> It's the closest I can figure
20:18 < Mercster> i stil say you didnt do enough. the main attraction to cocaine for humans is the euphoria it causes, and until you do enough to get to that level, a line or two here and there arent going to register to you
20:18 < Mercster> it takes enough to feel before you can appreciate a small amount
20:19 < Mercster> once you hit that plateau, you can do a small line and feeel it. but not before then
20:20 < Mercster> the only other possibility is that you're a medical miracle and that cocaine doesnt affect you, which i dont believe
20:20 < Mercster> if you're a human and do enough, cocaine is very enjoyable, seductive. as i said i wouldnt *recommend* doing enough to like it, since once you like it, you're likely to be an addict
20:21 < Mercster> which is not fun times
20:21 < Mercster> the only thing that saved my life is running out of money
20:23 < Mercster> i think i was 18-19 at the time
20:23 < Mercster> thank god i wasnt making any real money
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20:41 <@Dagmar> Fuuucked up
20:42 <@Dagmar> Just got back from the RedBox down the street
20:43 < Mercster> redbox?
20:43 <@Dagmar> Yeah the little DVD rental kiosks
20:43 <@Dagmar> You've seen 'em around
20:43 < Mercster> ohhhh those
20:43 < Mercster> yeah
20:43 < Mercster> never used one
20:43 < Mercster> seen it tho
20:43 <@Dagmar> The Walgreens has two of them about seven feet apart
20:43 < Mercster> heh
20:43 <@Dagmar> Dude they rock.  $1 rentals
20:44 < Mercster> do you have to return the disc or is it one of those self-destructing things?
20:44 <@Dagmar> Anyway, I get out of my little car, walk over to the machine, swipe my card and start waiting for it to grab the DVD of 2012
20:44 <@Dagmar> You return it in a little carrier thing
20:44 < Mercster> nod
20:44 <@Dagmar> I look over to my right, and a black dude has walked up to the other one
20:44 <@Dagmar> He's wearing all white.
20:44 <@Dagmar> Shorts, shirt, sneakers, baseball cap
20:44 <@Dagmar> I'm wearing all black.
20:45 <@Dagmar> Shorts, sneakers, tshirt, fisherman's cap.
20:45 < Mercster> was it a meeting of the minds
20:45 <@Dagmar> The guys who were with him noticed it too.  I think he was the last one to realize it
20:45 < Mercster> he probably rented "i can do bad all by myself"
20:45 <@Dagmar> I looked at him thinking it was messed up, he looks over at me
20:45 < Mercster> and you of course rented a scifi pic
20:45 <@Dagmar> His guys in the car yell 'We've got your back, Clarence!"
20:46 < Mercster> ?
20:46 <@Dagmar> I mention I feel like I should be checkin the area for cartoon bombs and he busts out laughing
20:46 < Mercster> haha
20:46 < Mercster> spy vs spy
20:46 <@Dagmar> Yep.  Exactly
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21:23 < polerin> 2012 is okish for a disaster flick, but NO substance what so ever
21:24 < Mercster> wait, an action flick has no substance?
21:24 < Mercster> you've got to be joking
21:24 <@Dagmar> You should be glad that it's only $3k
21:24 <@Dagmar> wrong chan
21:27 <@Dagmar> I'm with Mercster on this one
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21:27 <@Dagmar> They're talking about the world ending in 2012.
21:27 <@Dagmar> There's no way it could even _try_ to have substance
21:27 <@Dagmar> I'm rentin' it because it's a *buck* and I'm pretty sure someone will have definitely put an effort into special effects to cover for the lack of plot
21:28 < Mercster> yeah, i mean, you gotta know what yer getting into with certain movies
21:28 < Mercster> some movies you dont expect substance or a plot from. not that im much of a movie snob, but i avoid things like that
21:28 < Mercster> i like smart movies, mostly dramas, some smart comedies
21:29 < Mercster> i havent seen lots of movies for that reason...2012, transformers, etc
21:29 < Mercster> im just not into it
21:29 < Mercster> some people enjoy the action and the special effects, and thats fine
21:29 < Mercster> but to expect some sort of depth from it is kinda ridiculous
21:30 < Mercster> enjoy the sights and sounds, enjoy the action, but dont expect it to change your life
21:30 <@polerin> oh there is a whole bunch of attention paid to special effects, but it really strained my disbelief even though I had turned my brain completely off
21:32 < Mercster> sure
21:32 < Mercster> and a lot of people enjoy that
21:32 < Mercster> nothing wrong with it
21:32 < Mercster> want a scifi/action movie with substance? watch Blade Runner
21:33 < Mercster> thats probably the most action-oriented DVD i own
21:33 < Mercster> i have the 5-disc director's cut set
21:34 < Mercster> comes in a silver briefcase box
21:35 < Mercster> http://www.amazon.com/Blade-Runner-Five-Disc-Ultimate-Collectors/dp/B000K15VSA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1280889294&sr=8-3
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22:18 <@polerin> oh I've been gone too long from #cakephp
22:18 <@polerin> nobody knows who the hell I am and is discarding what I'm saying just to arrive at the same shit
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22:18  * polerin is going to cut a fucker
22:18 <@polerin> oh hi lurv
22:18 <@polerin> whazup
22:18 <@Lissa> you can see me...you know what's up :P
22:19 <@polerin> heh
22:19 <@polerin> just surprised you popped in
22:19 <@Lissa> me too
22:19 <@Lissa> heh
22:19 <@Corydon76-dig> Yay!
22:20 <@Corydon76-dig> We are going down to Shelbyville on Thursday to perhaps find a mate for Johnny
22:20 <@Lissa> awww
22:20 <@Lissa> he'll be a happy bunny
22:21 <@Corydon76-dig> We went by the place on Saturday after the tour at the distillery
22:21 <@polerin> oh gods, they are going to fuck like bunnies
22:21 <@Lissa> ya think?
22:21 <@Corydon76-dig> Johnny is fixed, though
22:22 <@Lissa> You just want a girl bunny to hang around with?
22:22 <@Corydon76-dig> so they aren't going to REPRODUCE like bunnies
22:22 <@Corydon76-dig> Oh, I have girl bunnies... I'm thinking of getting one specifically for Johnny
22:22 <@Lissa> that's what I meant
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22:24 <@Corydon76-dig> Not just any bunny, though.  Another Flemish Giant.
22:25 < Mercster> you have a fixed bunny?
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22:25 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: All 5 of my present rabbits are spayed/neutered
22:25 < Mercster> weird
22:25 < Mercster> how much does that cost?
22:25 <@Corydon76-dig> It doubles their life span
22:25 <@Corydon76-dig> $100/ea
22:26 < Mercster> so like, 4x as much as the bunny itself cost
22:26 <@Corydon76-dig> Well, the same is true for cats and dogs
22:26 < Mercster> yeah i guess so
22:26 < Mercster> depending on where you get your dog or cat
22:27 < Mercster> so you're a bunny afficionado?
22:27 <@Corydon76-dig> Greater, if you consider how many people are giving away kittens and puppies
22:27 <@Lissa> they're very cute
22:27 <@Corydon76-dig> We also have two birds and four dogs
22:27 < Mercster> what kind of birds
22:27 <@Corydon76-dig> Green-cheeked conure and blue-fronted Amazon
22:27 < Mercster> angelle is annoying
22:28 < Mercster> wrong channel
22:28 <@Corydon76-dig> Both of them can be annoying at times, but they can also be charming
22:28 <@Corydon76-dig> Lucy (the parrot) is a fuss-budget... hence, her name
22:28 < Mercster> im more of a fish man
22:29 < Mercster> i love aquariums
22:29 < Mercster> currently i have two cats
22:29 < Mercster> and they're both assholes
22:29 <@Lissa> lol
22:29 <@Corydon76-dig> Bunnies are somewhat like cats... except that I'm allergic to cat dander
22:30 <@Corydon76-dig> Johnny begs for treats like a dog
22:31 <@Corydon76-dig> Otherwise, he's rather independent, like a cat
22:31 <@Corydon76-dig> i.e. you come to him, unless you have food, in which case, he'll come to you
22:32 <@Corydon76-dig> All it takes is for me to crack the food container, and he comes running
22:33 <@Corydon76-dig> Oh, and Johnny is also bigger than the typical housecat, which means if you have something he wants, he could bowl you over, like a large dog
22:33 < Mercster> i dunno why i have two cats, i honestly dont like them very much
22:33 < Mercster> well i like my two cats, but as a species i dont like them much
22:33 < Mercster> far stupider than dogs
22:34 <@Corydon76-dig> I dunno about stupider... cats tend to be more independent...
22:34 < Mercster> they seem smart cuz they have more instincts than a dog, so they take care of themselves and behave in ways that seem on the surface to be more "independent"
22:34 <@Corydon76-dig> although I agree that I've encountered my fair share of stupid cats
22:34 < Mercster> and they certainly are more independant
22:34 < Mercster> but thats the instincts taking over
22:35 < Mercster> even the dumbest dog is smarter than a cat
22:35 <@Corydon76-dig> Peaches' mother has a cat that is afraid of its own shadow
22:35 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: nah, not even close.  I think you're forgetting chihuahuas and similar small dogs
22:36 < Mercster> dogs have a lot of the instinct bred out of them, they are more social and more dependent on people for their well-being
22:36 < Mercster> but they have the capacity to learn
22:36 < Mercster> even the most useless chihuahua or toy terrier has more capacity to learn than a cat
22:36 < Mercster> cats dont learn
22:36 <@Corydon76-dig> Our smallest dogs will listen to you, if you repeat the command 7 or 8 times in a row
22:36 < Mercster> i dont even know why people *name* their cats
22:37 < Mercster> i have two and neither of them have a name
22:37 < Mercster> you know why?
22:37 <@polerin> Mercster: bs.  dogs are just pack animals, Look at wild dog packs in cities
22:37 < Mercster> cuz cats arent intelligent enough to respond to a name
22:37 < Mercster> if anything, they respond to tone of voice
22:37 <@polerin> just cus we domesticated them and know how to handle them doesn't mean they have changed in some fundimental way biologicly
22:38 <@Corydon76-dig> I dunno... IT managers aren't known as "cat herders" for nothing...
22:38 < Mercster> cats are fucking stupid, they're like simple robots. even the smallest dogs have much more capacity to learn and interact than a cat
22:38 < Mercster> period
22:38 < Mercster> if you like cats thats fine, i like cats too, to an extent
22:38 < Mercster> but they
22:38 < Mercster> but they're stupid
22:38 < Mercster> plain old stupid
22:38 < Mercster> they know how to clean themselves and they can shit in a box
22:39 < Mercster> those are the only benefits of a cat over a dog
22:39 < Mercster> and both of them can be explained in terms of self-preservation
22:39 < Mercster> nothing intelligent about it
22:39 < Mercster> its all instinct
22:39 < Mercster> instinct != intelligence
22:39 <@Corydon76-dig> Dogs can be trained to shit in a box, too
22:40 <@Corydon76-dig> All you need to do is stick their nose in their poop 300 times or so, and they eventually get the hint
22:40 < Mercster> yeah it's been done
22:40 <@Corydon76-dig> And they usually don't forget
22:41 < Mercster> some people have trained their cats to shit in the toilet too
22:41 < Mercster> its just not very common
22:41 <@Corydon76-dig> until you expand their play area, and then they forget all over again
22:42 <@Corydon76-dig> I would kill to have the dog shit directly in the toilet
22:42 <@Corydon76-dig> Would save me from having to shovel it in later
22:43 < Mercster> i live on the 2nd floor of a high-rise, id love to have a dog but its just not realistic
22:43 < Mercster> i cant wake up every early morning to take it out
22:43 < Mercster> so i have cats
22:44 <@Corydon76-dig> Oh, and the other thing I have to give the dog is a stink pill, because they haven't got enough sense to bury their crap
22:44 <@Corydon76-dig> Dunno how to train that into a dog
22:45 < Mercster> stink pill?
22:45 <@Corydon76-dig> if I don't give it a stink pill, I can smell her feces on the other end of the house
22:45 < Mercster> huh
22:45 < Mercster> never heard of that
22:46 < Mercster> whats in it?
22:46 <@Corydon76-dig> Yucca root
22:46 < Mercster> reduces the scent?
22:46 <@Corydon76-dig> Liver flavored, so she gobbles it down without chewing half the time
22:46 <@Corydon76-dig> virtually eliminates it
22:46 < Mercster> huh
22:47 <@Corydon76-dig> Now I can only smell it if I'm in the same room when she does it
22:47 < Mercster> she isnt housetrained?
22:47 <@Corydon76-dig> and it's not bad enough to make you gag
22:47 <@Corydon76-dig> That's the dog that is trained to shit in a box
22:47 < Mercster> i see
22:47 < Mercster> what kind of dog?
22:47 <@Corydon76-dig> chihuahua-minpin mix
22:48 < Mercster> ok
22:48 < Mercster> i had a chihuahua-mix once, but i was a young kid and we didnt have it long
22:48 < Mercster> dad got tired of pets easily
22:48 <@Corydon76-dig> If I didn't give her the pills, I could sell her shit for use in police-issue stink bombs
22:48 < Mercster> heh
22:50 < Mercster> honestly the best dogs are larger, ones you keep outside if you have enough room for them
22:50 < Mercster> retrievers, labradors
22:50 < Mercster> smart, friendly
22:50 <@Corydon76-dig> Right, we have a Siberian Husky
22:50 < Mercster> just not very house/apartment friendly
22:50 < Mercster> oh yeah, nice
22:51 <@Corydon76-dig> Nice, if you don't mind pouring concrete at the base of a fence once every 6 months or so
22:51 < Mercster> heh
22:51 <@Corydon76-dig> Seriously, I have two new concrete footers since I got that dog
22:51 < Mercster> you should get in touch with that dog whisperer guy
22:51 < Mercster> certainly there's a more convenient way
22:52 <@Corydon76-dig> Oh, and there's now chicken wire buried under the grass in various places around the yard
22:52 <@opticron> your dog is helping to make the fence more stable!
22:52 < Mercster> see that proves dogs are smarter, at least they have goals
22:52 < Mercster> cats are happy to just eat, shit, and sleep
22:53 <@opticron> and run around your feet causing you to trip, but dogs do that, too
22:53 < Mercster> heh
22:53 < Mercster> yeah
22:53 <@Corydon76-dig> opticron: my surprise was the day when I saw a hole big enough to fit the wiener dog under, and he just dumbly looked at it... I called for the Huskey and he appeared from outside the fence
22:54 <@Corydon76-dig> That is one flexible dog
22:54 < Mercster> you wanna talk about flexible, i had a ferret once
22:54 < Mercster> now there is a pet stupider than even cats
22:54 <@opticron> most flexible: octopus
22:54 < Mercster> yeah, true
22:55 <@Corydon76-dig> I dunno.  I enjoyed seeing a ferret run from a dog, and the dog was stopped by the bars of the cage
22:55 < Mercster> octopii can get out of anything
22:55 <@opticron> and can fit through anything the size of their beak
22:55 < Mercster> my experience as an aquarist tells me thatr
22:55 <@Corydon76-dig> The ferret went through as if there were no bars
22:55 < Mercster> never actually owned one, but yeah
22:55 < Mercster> the craziest aquatic pet i ever owned was a blue crayfish
22:56 <@Corydon76-dig> and the dog looked incredibly confused
22:56 < Mercster> it was fun watching him try to grab the other fish with his claws
22:56 < Mercster> and if you startled him during a tank cleaning, he'd shoot across the tank backwards faster than the speed of sound
22:56 < Mercster> i think i have a pic somewhere
22:56  * Mercster searches
22:56 <@Corydon76-dig> bbiab, Peaches is home
22:58 < Mercster> http://quanta.homeip.net/crawfish.jpg
22:58 < Mercster> pretty specimen
22:59 < Mercster> he moulted twice while i owned him
22:59 <@opticron> huh
23:00 < Mercster> you'd get a perfect exoskeleton of him
23:00 <@opticron> we have plenty of red ones around here
23:00 < Mercster> i got the blue one in a pet shop
23:00 < Mercster> not sure where his native area was
23:00 < Mercster> it was labelled as a "blue lobster", but was obviously a freshwater crayfish
23:00 < Mercster> i think i paid $20 for him
23:00 <@opticron> lol
23:01 < Mercster> had him in a tank with a bunch of african cichlids
23:01 < Mercster> he would try to catch them, but was no match
23:01 < Mercster> cichlids are mean fish, themselves
23:03 < Mercster> was fun to watch him try, though
23:12 <@kive> Corydon76-dig: You guys do a cfp for pn? Just thinking if I make my way out I might preview what I'm thinking of doing at BH2011/DC19 to see what folks like most/least. Is it worth me still throwing together a short abstract?
23:13 <@kive> Unique, but similar, subject matter, fwiw -- nothing fluff, and it's far enough apart it's not like it'd really be duplicated, either.
23:13 <@kive> PM if you want the gritty details
23:21 <@Corydon76-dig> kive: sure, go ahead
23:21 <@Corydon76-dig> sorry, stepped away for a bit
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23:26 < Mercster> mm, sam peckinpah
23:26  * Mercster watches Junior Bonner
23:32 <@Corydon76-dig> I also have a bird in hand, which makes it difficult to type
23:33 <@Corydon76-dig> green cheeked conure, specifically
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23:34 <@Corydon76-dig> She's not too fond of the feeling of my fingers bouncing under her grasp
23:34 < Mercster> teach that damn bird some manners
23:34 <@Corydon76-dig> She's a darling...
23:35 <@Corydon76-dig> Well, as long as she doesn't bite down hard...
23:36 <@Corydon76-dig> It's adorable when she tries to pickup a freckle...
23:44 < Mercster> well, thats cool
23:44 < Mercster> i had a parakeet once
--- Log closed Wed Aug 04 00:00:57 2010