--- Log opened Sat Jul 24 00:00:09 2010
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10:18 <@sdodson> ahyeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEE
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12:08 <@Corydon76-dig> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/201797/tech_worker_testifies_of_blue_screen_of_death_on_oil_rigs_computer.html
12:09 <@Corydon76-dig> In Microsoft's defense, they DO warn you in the TOS not to use the OS for anything where human life hangs in the balance
12:10 <@Corydon76-dig> s/TOS/EULA/
12:10 < bbCRasH180> That is laughable
12:10 < bbCRasH180> well, not funny. It is simply sad
12:11 < bbCRasH180> I read that earlier this morning
12:15 <@sdodson> Every piece of software says that.
12:16 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: No, not every piece
12:16 <@Corydon76-dig> Just the mass-market stuff
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12:25 <@sdodson> Corydon76-dig: Any software produced by a company which is adverse to risk.
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14:47 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: That's not exactly true, either.  Software for specialized applications are written differently to ensure that they will remain reliable, when used for life-endangering applications (think medical machines, aerocraft control, military applications)
14:48 <@Corydon76-dig> It's merely another example of how BP and TransOcean cut costs without regard for the safety of their employees
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18:14 <@sdodson> "IBM is the leader in high-end disk attached to mainframes"  uhhh how many other mainframe vendors are there?
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19:02 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: There have been quite a few.  Don't think about just the US.
19:02 <@Corydon76-dig> Bull, Honeywell
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19:23 < fall0ut> hrm, anything going on around nashville/murfreesboro tonight
19:24 <+Mercster> the downfall of western civilization
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22:00 <@sdodson> Corydon76-dig: Bull is still around, but does honeywell do anything still?
22:03 <+Mercster> isnt tandem stil alive?
22:06 <+Mercster> guess not, as a brand anyway
22:07 <+Mercster> i worked somewhere that had a big tandem cluster around 2000
22:07 <+Mercster> i assume it's still in operation
22:07 <+Mercster> considering it was the air force
22:08 <+Mercster> After being acquired by Hewlett Packard, the NonStop line has moved to Itanium-based processors, called Integrity NonStop Servers.
22:08 <+Mercster> huh
22:15 <+Mercster> "medication time..."
22:24 <@sdodson> And Itanium is dead
22:27 <+Mercster> dead to nerds, and dead to the enterprise are two different things
22:29 <@sdodson> If anything, the people it's not dead to would be nerds.
22:29 <@sdodson> And the Japanese.
22:29 <@sdodson> I'm not aware of any business applications that are well suited for IA64.
22:30 <+Mercster> all im saying is, once slashdot and #se2600 proclaim something dead, it will probably be in use in multiple domains for approximately 20 more years :)
22:30 <@sdodson> Other than superdomes I don't see IA64 systems running more than 6-8 years.
22:32 <+Mercster> mmkay
22:33 <+Mercster> how long have HP-UX and MIPS been dead?
22:34 <+Mercster> HP-UX was a great big LOL back in 1993, and it's still doing a great deal of work in financial sectors
22:35 <+Mercster> same with IBM S/390 and AIX
22:35 <+Mercster> and i'd be willing to wager there are still quite a few tandem installations
22:36 <+Mercster> IA64 is an infant compared to all that shit
22:36 <@kive> HP-UX is still around, ditto for AIX
22:36 <+Mercster> yup
22:36 <@kive> got one of each in my work lab, so they're both still popular.
22:37 <@kive> AIX, particularly, since it's the only thing that runs on a whole lot of mid-range systems
22:37 <+Mercster> kive: thats exactly my point, just because linyx geeks think something is antiquated, doesnt mean anything to larger businesses/educational institutions
22:37 <+Mercster> s/linyx/linux
22:37 <@kive> agreed
22:37 <@kive> some people still support cobol for a living
22:37 <+Mercster> yep
22:38 <+Mercster> FORTRAN is alive and well, too
22:38 <@kive> I need to go searching to see if there's an AIX cloud strategy, hehe
22:38 <+Mercster> not every business solution calls for ubuntu on a PC ;-)
22:38 <@kive> very few do, actually, heh
22:38 <@kive> unfortunately
22:39 <@kive> linux still doesn't have the user-friendly factor
22:39 <@kive> or enterprise mgmt, really
22:39 <@sdodson> ubuntu is never the answer
22:39 <@kive> as much as it kills me to say that
22:39 <@kive> I run a lot of my personal servers as ubuntu... love it
22:39 <@kive> but I'd never use it for work production stuff.
22:39 <@kive> straight RHEL there
22:39 <+Mercster> im a fedora person
22:39 <+Mercster> yeah RHEL would be my choice for production linux
22:40 <@Dagmar> I wouldn't call what passes for "enterprise management" in Windows circles that
22:40 <@kive> yup -- because of the commercial support. I need to be able to yell at someone when some nasty bug is found.
22:40 <@sdodson> why would you use different platform for personal than what you use for professional stuff?
22:40 <+Mercster> sdodson: "reality"
22:40 <@Dagmar> Must suck to be that helpless.
22:40 <+Mercster> kive: heh
22:40 <@kive> sdodson: because my work stuff impacts billions of dollars of revenue, and the security of most of the global-500 types, etc..
22:40 <@Dagmar> As far as user-friendly is concerned, go get an Ubuntu disc
22:40 <@kive> and my personal stuff doesn't. It just impacts my personal projects.
22:41 <@kive> user-friendly == my mom can use it without a huge learning curve
22:41 <@sdodson> kive: right but it's a different knowledge set, why bother with useless stuff?
22:41 <@kive> that ain't ubuntu
22:41 <@Dagmar> My mom can use it
22:41 <@kive> oh, you mean why bother with ubuntu when I use RHEL at work?
22:41 <@kive> Because I like it better, honestly
22:42 <@sdodson> your mom can use deez nuts
22:42 <@kive> fedora is buggy as heck (probably doesn't help that I usually just run rawhide because I usually am using it when I'm trying to get something in the builds security-wise)
22:43 <@kive> and I'm not paying for RHEL licenses for personal use
22:43 <@sdodson> use centos
22:43 <+Mercster> user friendly doesnt matter as much in the enterprise, thats why you pay people with a clue well...but you cant compare things like linux and AIX, or HP-UX, with decades of enterprise-worthy tools, fault tolerance systems, etc
22:43 <@kive> And CentOS just isn't developed as aggressively as ubuntu
22:43 <@sdodson> Ya, any expectation of stability from rawhide is severely misguided.
22:43 <+Mercster> linux is getting there, but it aint there
22:43 <@kive> so, for better or for worse, ubuntu is what I use right now for personal stuff
22:44 <+Mercster> kive: as far as my two PCs go, FC12 has been fairly well-behaved...ive heard bad things about FC13. as with any development-level linux distro, user beware
22:44 <@sdodson> All the enterprise management people will gladly sell you a pile of shit to manage linux with.
22:44 <+Mercster> it usually helps to adopt the new version after a few months or so
22:44 <@kive> yeah, but I'd have to go rawhide. It's bad logic, but that's all I use with fedora, hehe
22:45 <+Mercster> id certainly run fedora before debian
22:45 <+Mercster> debian is a joke
22:45 <@sdodson> you're using "have" in a way i don't understand
22:45 <@kive> sdodson: Whenever I've used fedora, it's because I'm developing something. If I was going to run fedora, I'd end up using rawhide just so I'd have an excuse to develop more in the fedora tree
22:46 <@kive> stable fedora is just something I've never leaned to for some idiotic reason
22:46 <+Mercster> fedora is usually sane
22:46 <+Mercster> as i said, after a couple months, anyway
22:46 <@kive> I also don't have high-performance system needs outside of running esx and nas boxes and the like
22:47 <@kive> so OS really isn't all that important to me
22:47 <@kive> i.e. ubuntu works and is the flavor I'm used to for personal servers
22:48 <+Mercster> ive run ubtuntu before, it isnt horrible, but i see some seepage from the debian problem i.e. basement-dwelling neckbeards putting together packages with little communication, and the ensuing mess
22:48 <+Mercster> plus im just more familiar with rpm
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22:48 <@sdodson> Tivoli, Veritas and all that shit will gladly fuck up any reasonable linux system if you just want to burn a pile of cash.
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22:58 <+Mercster> ugh, sneeze
23:00 <+Mercster> i got beer up my nose and now ive got the sneezes
23:04 <@sdodson> Mercster: what beer?
23:04 <+Mercster> natty light
23:05 <@sdodson> oh ya, it's natturday
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23:10 <+Mercster> hi Tybstar
23:11 < Tybstar> hi Mercster
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23:19 <@kive> who's coming to BH/DC, btw?
23:20 <+Mercster> not i
23:20 <+Mercster> whats BH
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23:25 <@kive> black hat
23:25 <@kive> the thing before defcon
23:25 <+Mercster> oh, right
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23:53 <+Mercster> "medication time..."
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--- Log closed Sun Jul 25 00:00:09 2010