--- Log opened Tue Apr 20 00:00:42 2010 00:18 -!- Peaches1984 [one@c-69-137-80-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22 -!- Peaches1984 [one@c-69-137-80-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 00:38 -!- NotLarry [~NotLarry@c-76-22-176-23.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 00:39 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o NotLarry] by ChanServ 01:30 -!- someninjamaster [~jamesrich@c-68-53-159-99.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:31 -!- Corydon76-dig [eleven@c-69-137-80-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:31 -!- someninjamaster [~jamesrich@c-68-53-159-99.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 01:31 -!- Corydon76-dig [two@c-69-137-80-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 01:31 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Corydon76-dig] by ChanServ 01:31 -!- Lissa [~lissa@c-98-193-146-146.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:31 -!- Lissa [~lissa@c-98-193-146-146.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 02:21 -!- fie [~fie@ip70-178-90-32.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:21 -!- fie [~fie@ip70-178-90-32.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #se2600 02:35 -!- chalcedony [~llhull@unaffiliated/chalcedony] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:47 -!- Peaches1984 [one@c-69-137-80-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:27 < fie> hello world 06:10 -!- Vyrus001 [~Vyrus001@209.159.137.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: polerin 07:03 -!- Netsplit over, joins: polerin 07:40 < ware> [MAINSCREEN]# turn on && setup bomb 07:51 -!- m0j0-j0j0 [~m0j0-j0j0@vnet503-hosoc.mcclatchyinteractive.com] has joined #se2600 07:51 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o m0j0-j0j0] by ChanServ 07:52 <@m0j0-j0j0> morning: it's not just a reminder that it's bedtime any more. 08:57 -!- Drag0n` [~nunya@199.180.3.25] has joined #se2600 08:57 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Drag0n`] by ChanServ 09:00 -!- devoid [yiffstar66@unaffiliated/devemo] has joined #se2600 09:00 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o devoid] by ChanServ 09:03 -!- devoid [yiffstar66@unaffiliated/devemo] has quit [Client Quit] 09:03 -!- devoid [yiffstar66@unaffiliated/devemo] has joined #se2600 09:03 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o devoid] by ChanServ 09:10 -!- devoid [yiffstar66@unaffiliated/devemo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:10 -!- devoid [yiffstar66@unaffiliated/devemo] has joined #se2600 09:10 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o devoid] by ChanServ 09:37 < nachoguy> mr0nin 09:38 -!- Jagobah [~ljugo@74-141-112-153.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38 <@devoid> hiya 09:38 -!- Jagobah [~ljugo@74-141-112-153.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #se2600 09:39 -!- coils [~coil@ima.sleepingwolf.net] has joined #se2600 09:39 < coils> devoid 09:41 -!- nefariousD [~nefD@adsl-068-016-097-246.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #se2600 09:41 -!- nefD [~nefD@adsl-068-016-097-246.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:42 -!- nefariousD is now known as nefD 09:42 <@devoid> hi coils 09:43 < ware> good morning 09:44 <@devoid> hi ware 09:44 < ware> wassa lil dev 09:44 < coils> stfu ware 09:44 < coils> u dont even know me kid shut the fuck up hidin behind yuor computar id fuckin lump u out if u fronted on me like that in person kid, fuckin bitchass little nerd hidin behind ur computer screen little pussy i'd kick ur ass irl fagget 09:44 -!- coils [~coil@ima.sleepingwolf.net] has left #se2600 [] 09:45 <@devoid> lol i think you used that exact like the other day 09:45 <@devoid> line* 09:46 <@devoid> hiya ware 10:10 -!- chalcedony [~llhull@unaffiliated/chalcedony] has joined #se2600 10:16 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@71.20.102.220] has joined #se2600 10:16 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Venom_X] by ChanServ 10:41 -!- fie [~fie@ip70-178-90-32.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@71.20.102.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:24 -!- Vyrus001 [~Vyrus001@209.159.137.115] has joined #se2600 11:24 -!- 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[~jamesrich@c-68-53-159-99.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 12:55 -!- Toddwrk [todd@brokeback.mtn.cc] has quit [Quit: Java user signed off] 13:43 < ware> QUIZ4INTERNETS: decode 406a653761346b373040 13:46 < nefD> hmm.. is it @je7a4k70@ ? 13:48 < ware> you win the internets! 13:49 < ware> i thought the character set was a give away to hex 13:52 < nefD> wheee! 13:54 < ware> i already did the hard part 13:54 < ware> which was hash>hex :P 13:55 < nefD> what kinda hash? md5? 13:57 < ware> NTLM 13:57 < ware> ntlm -> rainbow tables -> win 13:58 < nefD> ahh, sinteresting.. will have to look at that 13:59 < nefD> i tend to use the ripemd160 algorithm whenever im messing wtih php code 13:59 < ware> http://www.freerainbowtables.com/ 14:00 < nefD> ah nice, they have a BOINC project I can plug into 14:01 < ware> http://project-rainbowcrack.com/ too 14:33 -!- epoxy [~epoxy@dialin.inttek.net] has joined #se2600 15:02 -!- Peaches1984 [three@c-69-137-80-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 15:14 -!- devoid [yiffstar66@unaffiliated/devemo] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:17 -!- devoid [yiffstar66@unaffiliated/devemo] has joined #se2600 15:17 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o devoid] by ChanServ 15:19 -!- Peaches1984 [three@c-69-137-80-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-20-147-171.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 15:47 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@74.61.90.217] has joined #se2600 15:47 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Venom_X] by ChanServ 15:54 -!- epoxy [~epoxy@dialin.inttek.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24 -!- Drag0n` [~nunya@199.180.3.25] has quit [Quit: connection reset by year, NTPDate strikes again!!!!] 17:05 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@74.61.90.217] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 18:01 -!- Corydon76-dig changed the topic of #se2600 to: PhreakNIC 14 to be held October 15-17, 2010 18:01 <@m0j0-j0j0> three three three for my heartache 18:01 -!- m0j0-j0j0 [~m0j0-j0j0@vnet503-hosoc.mcclatchyinteractive.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:04 -!- Peaches1984 [three@c-69-137-80-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 18:12 -!- Catonic [~catonic@56-24.9-67.bham.res.rr.com] has joined #se2600 18:12 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Catonic] by ChanServ 18:18 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@74.61.90.217] has joined #se2600 18:18 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Venom_X] by ChanServ 18:46 < Peaches1984> Who would have ever thought that someone would try and plan a con on the same weekend of PN It really shows how childish and attention starved someone is. they always say that the ones that cause problems are always hiding something. 18:52 <@Dagmar> Are they called it OuterNIC? 18:52 <@Dagmar> s/called/calling/; 18:56 < Peaches1984> no like chaircon 1 18:59 <@Shadow404> WOOOAAHHH 18:59 <@Shadow404> early announcement 18:59 <@Shadow404> awesome 19:00 <@Corydon76-dig> Shadow404: Yes, I'm not all about getting things done at the last minute. 19:00 < Peaches1984> But its all just a joke 19:00 < Peaches1984> the chair con thing 19:00 <@Shadow404> Corydon76-dig: ++++1 19:01 <@Corydon76-dig> Shadow404: I was rather pissed at the NFL for saying that they would release the schedule in "early April". 19:01 <@Corydon76-dig> April 20th is not early April 19:01 <@Shadow404> heh 19:01 <@Shadow404> of course 19:02 <@Shadow404> sdodson: unban me already 19:03 <@Corydon76-dig> I'd like to have everything hammered down, in terms of speaker schedule, by July 15th this year 19:03 <@Shadow404> so, your in charge this year? 19:03 <@Corydon76-dig> I am 19:03 <@Shadow404> woot, ill be attending then 19:03 <@Shadow404> hopefully 19:04 <@Catonic> ugh, more drama and less pussy. 19:04 <@Shadow404> no shortage of pussy on this side of the screen 19:04 <@Corydon76-dig> Then we can work out volunteer schedules in plenty of time 19:04 <@Shadow404> Corydon76-dig: lawl 19:04 <@Shadow404> i think not 19:04 <@Shadow404> done my time 2 cons in a row a couple of years ago 19:04 <@Catonic> Shadow404: we know. Ever since you got married, you've had your balls taped back. 19:05 <@Shadow404> haha 19:05 <@Corydon76-dig> Well, but one of the main issues with volunteers is that they prefer to be able to see certain speakers, and they don't want to volunteer at those times 19:05 <@Shadow404> of course 19:05 <@Shadow404> and thats why i know not to volunteer 19:05 <@Shadow404> did my time to gain a presence in teh community 19:05 <@Shadow404> passed that 19:05 <@Corydon76-dig> I'm going to look at sweetening the deal this year for volunteers, in terms of getting something that the general population cannot buy 19:06 <@Catonic> I'm at a point in my life where I don't think I should be drinking, and I'm getting tired of getting in fights. 19:06 <@Shadow404> ah cool 19:06 < ware> hey guyz! did you hear ChairCon is gonna be the same weekend as Phreaknic?! 19:07 <@Shadow404> ware: no way!@ 19:07 < ware> srs bzns! 19:07 < ware> i dunno if ill have time to even see any phreaknic speakers!! 19:10 <@Catonic> Just when I thought the world couldn't get any stupider, some idiot shat out ware. 19:10 <@Corydon76-dig> ware: and that's different from most years, how? 19:11 * Catonic waves 19:11 -!- Catonic [~catonic@56-24.9-67.bham.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: pieces] 19:12 <@scoil> oh i might actually come this year 19:12 <@scoil> if cd is incharge 19:12 < ware> theres supposed to be a couple more cons there too 19:13 <@Shadow404> stfuwarecon 19:13 <@Shadow404> dammit 19:13 < ware> heard that one was gonna be there 19:13 <@Shadow404> unban me already 19:13 < ware> also furcon 19:13 <@scoil> how about shadowbutthurtcon 19:13 <@Shadow404> ware: please god no 19:13 < ware> 19:08 --modechange #ware: (-b *!*shadow404@*.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) by scoil 19:13 < ware> 19:08 <@ scoil> lololol 19:13 < ware> 19:08 <@ scoil> come on in 19:13 <@Shadow404> lawl 19:13 <@Shadow404> diaf 19:13 <@Shadow404> assholes 19:13 < ware> you gotta talk to sdodson! 19:14 <@scoil> lololol 19:16 <@Shadow404> i did last night 19:16 <@Shadow404> sdodson: hey douchebag@ 19:17 <@Shadow404> ware: ^^--is that the best way to start the convo? 19:19 < ware> yah 19:20 <@scoil> no 19:20 <@scoil> you gotta do /troll 19:20 <@scoil> something about redhat 19:21 <@Shadow404> for example? 19:22 <@coil> Why fuss with KDE when you can buy an Apple? Why futz around with this? If you want state of the art GUI, why not just buy a Mac? KDE may emerge as great interface for your cell phone; but at the end of the day, it's just a toy. Serious Unix developers are switching to Apple. 19:22 <@Shadow404> ah 19:36 <@sdodson> Shadow404: what are you talking about? 19:36 <@Shadow404> unban me 19:36 <@Shadow404> thx douchebag 19:36 <@sdodson> Shadow404: why are you going on about kde? 19:37 <@Shadow404> im not 19:37 <@Shadow404> coil said to say something random to get your attention 19:37 <@sdodson> Shadow404: sure seems like you did 19:37 <@Shadow404> so i agreed with him 19:37 <@Shadow404> i just c+p what he said 19:37 <@sdodson> Shadow404: i don't have time for you. 19:37 <@Shadow404> as you two sleep togther 19:37 <@Shadow404> so he knows you best 19:38 <@sdodson> Shadow404: OH MAN THATS A HUMDINGER! 19:38 <@scoil> Shadow404 lieks cp 19:38 <@Shadow404> damn 19:38 <@Shadow404> so does my wife, well, only from me 19:40 <@Shadow404> ware: possible double negative in the last reply 19:41 < ware> double negative would insinuate the luser disregard the signs 19:42 < ware> chaincon.com, watch for updates 19:42 < ware> chaircon.com * 19:43 <@scoil> werdj 19:43 <@Shadow404> did you actually buy it? 19:47 -!- devoid [yiffstar66@unaffiliated/devemo] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:47 -!- devoid [yiffstar66@unaffiliated/devemo] has joined #se2600 19:47 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o devoid] by ChanServ 19:57 <@sdodson> Shadow404: ok 19:59 <@Shadow404> sdodson: diaf 19:59 <@scoil> diaf 20:01 <@Shadow404> damn, im drunk 20:01 <@Shadow404> ware: lawl 20:02 <@scoil> top two words Shadow404 overuses 20:02 <@scoil> diaf 20:02 <@scoil> and lawl 20:02 <@scoil> thx 4 ruining it 4 everyone 20:03 <@Shadow404> eat shit and die 20:03 <@scoil> esad 20:09 <@sdodson> Shadow404: i didn't do anything 20:11 -!- scoo [obsid@butt.fucked-urmom.info] has joined #se2600 20:11 < scoo> hi i butt fucked your mother. 20:15 <@Dagmar> GOddamn juries 20:15 <@Dagmar> The Childs' verdict should be done already 20:18 -!- ForgottenFunk [~ElbinoBun@c-71-228-193-6.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 20:39 <@sasquatc4> sweet, x0xb0x found a new home 20:51 <@sasquatc4> so tempted once they start sellin again, 185 for a 303 kit doesnt seem too bad 20:52 <@Dagmar> I think you can get a reasonable simulator for less than that 20:53 <@Dagmar> ...and a sim will support more save/load methods than "pencil and college-ruled paper" 20:53 <@sasquatc4> yea i know, you can get vst's for free, but its not analog hardware 20:55 <@sasquatc4> used to be able to get rebirth, the whole 303/808/909 setup for free once they stopped sellin it a few years ago, but it doesnt play nice on x64 20:56 <@Dagmar> We can do a good job of simulating analog now 20:57 <@sasquatc4> yea, i have alot of the free ones, and some not free ones that can make the same sounds, but still not the same as having physical hardware in front of you thats all analog, and you can mod at will 20:57 <@Dagmar> ...and hand-entering sequences every time is just loads of fun I'm sure 20:58 <@sasquatc4> well with the homemade ones you can save them all off, it has a usb connection so it can function as a normal 303, or a midi controlled one that you can save and put patches to 20:59 <@Dagmar> Ah... Now *that's* a handy reason to deviate from the original 21:02 <@sasquatc4> yea, if it was just straight up audio and cv connections i doubt it would want it 21:14 <@dasunt> http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/04/19/our-tech-savvy-supreme-court/ 21:14 <@dasunt> ^- Be very afraid. 21:15 <@Dagmar> Yeah shit like that is why the one who is retiring worries me greatly 21:16 <@Dagmar> THe asshat monopolists are sure to try to get someone picked up will be against the old Betamax ruling that's the only reason we're not committing a felony when we use our VCRs 21:16 <@Dagmar> ...and then, as they say, "it will be ON" 21:16 <@dasunt> Yah. 21:16 <@dasunt> And Obama seems to be good friends with the IP crowd. 21:17 <@dasunt> :( 21:17 <@Dagmar> We'll just have to se 21:17 <@Dagmar> I don't intend to let them take away my PVR functionality 21:17 <@dasunt> Well, you weren't really using your fair use and your privacy anyways, right? 21:17 <@dasunt> PVR? *Pirating* Video Recorder? ;) 21:17 <@Dagmar> ...and if I'm forced to fucking buy an HD Fury I'm going to make damn sure everyone else knows that they _can_ 21:18 <@Dagmar> Having to spend $250 on an HD-PVR when an $80 cablecard interface would do the same goddamn thing and use considerably less power is just insulting 21:19 <@Dagmar> I'm never fucking at home when this stuff airs, and I"ll be damned if I'm going to pay the cable company money for their idea of a PVR that'll pound me with ads every time I look 21:19 <@Dagmar> Fuuuuuck that 21:20 <@Dagmar> It's not like they even give people the option to pay slightly more for one without ads 21:20 <@Dagmar> ...or even pay a LOT more for one without ads 21:20 <@Dagmar> ...which means effectively that you're paying to see ads. 21:20 <@Dagmar> Fuuuuuck that, too. 21:35 <@dasunt> You're cutting into their profits! 21:35 * dasunt gasps. 21:35 <@dasunt> That's unAmerican! 21:55 -!- CRasH180 [~CRasH180@pdpc/supporter/silver/CRasH180] has joined #se2600 21:55 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o CRasH180] by ChanServ 22:04 <@sasquatc4> well it is the cable companies system, can alway get a capture card that can record off of component 22:04 <@sasquatc4> *always 22:04 <@sasquatc4> arent they required to have firewire streaming as well? 22:15 <@dasunt> I should find a floor to sleep on at PN. 22:25 <@Corydon76-dig> Yes, you should 23:00 <@Dagmar> sasquatc4: That's what the HD-PVR is, *but* the monopolists are still lobbying the FCC to be allowed to disable component video output 23:01 <@Dagmar> If they disable that, there will be no more recording of video for personal use 23:03 <@sasquatc4> well they already can if they want to with cgmsa, not that anyone really listens to cgmsa bits 23:05 <@Corydon76-dig> I think we should give them whatever they want, as long as we reduce copyright across the board to a maximum of 7 years for all work-product 23:05 <@Corydon76-dig> They can have exclusive rights to control it all for 7 years, then it's a free-for-all. 23:06 <@Corydon76-dig> For every year they want beyond 7, they get less control over it for the entire term 23:06 <@Corydon76-dig> That's more than fair, isn't it? 23:07 <@Dagmar> sasquatc4: They are no longer using analog, dude. 23:07 <@Dagmar> THe monopolists are trying to basically make it so you have to use HDMI 23:07 <@Dagmar> ...which of course has HDCP, the monopolist protection system, 23:08 <@Corydon76-dig> I have no problem with HDMI. I can short pins as well as the next guy 23:09 <@Dagmar> HDCP won't really put up with that. That's why you have to use an HD Fury 23:09 <@Dagmar> It basically handles the HDCP handshake so your equipment thinks you're connecting monopoly-supporting hardware 23:09 <@Corydon76-dig> Right 23:11 <@sasquatc4> well take it up with the studios, its pretty much them doing this restriction not your cable company 23:11 <@Dagmar> Why tolerate it to begin with 23:11 <@sasquatc4> having to support all this stuff is just a headache for any provider 23:11 <@Dagmar> hah you act like the cable companies aren't in on this or something 23:11 <@sasquatc4> they are in on it because its required in their contracts with the people that provide them content 23:12 <@Dagmar> They are *completely* fine with taking rights away from people by technical measure 23:12 <@Dagmar> sasquatc4: You are entirely wrong. 23:12 <@Dagmar> If you were right, the SuperDMCA would have never happened. 23:12 <@Dagmar> It wasn't the recording industry driving them to do that 23:12 <@sasquatc4> really? me being someone that works for a television provider and has to had write code that implements hdcp, cgmsa, macrovision, and all the other protections 23:12 * opticron has the cable company turn off Dagmar right arm 23:12 <@Dagmar> They tried that crap claiming they needed it to fight cable piracy. 23:12 <@sasquatc4> i have absolutely no idea what im talking about 23:13 <@Dagmar> You aren't managment. 23:13 <@sasquatc4> im well aware of the infighting between providers and studios over this shit 23:13 <@Dagmar> Just because they fight with the content providers over money doesn't automatically mean they're pro-consumer. 23:13 <@sasquatc4> we wouldnt do any of it if we didnt have to as the man power would be better used elsewhere and it just causes customer support headaches which costs tons of money in the end to any company 23:14 <@sasquatc4> having to support any technology which causes confusion and makes things harder for consumers burdens the provider in a ton of support costs 23:14 <@Dagmar> No it doesn't. 23:14 <@sasquatc4> yes it does 23:14 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: yeah, I'm pretty sure sasquatc4 is right about this. Cable doesn't want to have to spend money if they don't have to 23:14 <@Dagmar> They charge for the hardware, they charge for service visits on the hardware. 23:14 <@Dagmar> All they have to do is buy the hardware that lets them implement their draconian controls 23:15 <@Corydon76-dig> Cable loves selling this stuff, but if it were up to them, they'd never have to send out a single person into a home 23:16 <@sasquatc4> all i know is at least with us, truck rolls cost money, customer support call centers cost money, everything costs them money, the single biggest driver in taking out a bug is how many calls it drives to the call centers 23:16 <@Corydon76-dig> At best, what a cable company charges to a customer is cost recovery for coming out to a home. At worst, it's a money pit 23:17 <@Dagmar> Either way that has little bearing on whether or not they want people to pay THEM money for a limited-use DVR service instead of people having control over their own recordings 23:17 <@Corydon76-dig> Cable would prefer if every home were hooked up at construction and they only had to flip a switch to turn it on or off, preferably in the comfort of their offices 23:18 <@Corydon76-dig> The only reason cable provides DVRs now is because satellite companies have it, and they need the boxes to compete 23:18 <@Dagmar> I mean, you *do* recall that it was the cable companies that tried to get the bill passed that made it a felony to run your own firewall or DVR if they offered that functionality as a service 23:18 <@Dagmar> THat, to me, is a pretty clear indication of how little they'd like to let people have 23:19 <@Corydon76-dig> I think it's more likely that they tried to get more than they actually wanted, as a bargaining position, so the fallback would be exactly what they wanted 23:19 <@Dagmar> That's their problem. 23:19 <@sasquatc4> well maybe comcast is a bit harsher, since they are both content provider and service provider, i just know with us, if it wasnt mandated in a contract we'd let people have free run over any recording on any box 23:19 <@Dagmar> I have to see them NOT trying to make me a felon for awhile before I'm going to believe they're anything other than a bunch of monopolists 23:19 <@sasquatc4> i know specific channels actually have to use different encryption from others, specifically the hbo's have to use stronger encryption on recordings 23:20 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: was that criminal law or civil law? 23:20 <@Dagmar> I know there's a few cable companies that actually provide IPTV but that's definitely the exception in the UNited States 23:20 <@Dagmar> Corydon76-dig: *Criminal*. 23:20 <@Dagmar> I did say *felon* 23:20 <@Corydon76-dig> That's rather difficult to believe. 23:21 <@Dagmar> THen look it the fuck up man 23:21 <@Corydon76-dig> What they generally want are enforceable contracts 23:21 <@Corydon76-dig> What was the name of the bill? 23:21 <@Dagmar> I believe it because I read the bill and spent two days in committee glaring at Senator Persons 23:21 <@Dagmar> http://w2.eff.org/IP/DMCA/states/ 23:23 <@Dagmar> YOu don't draft the same insane law up for multiple states and try to get it passed as a "bargaining position" 23:23 <@Dagmar> You do it because you think you can get away with it. 23:23 <@Corydon76-dig> Heh, this is from 7 years ago 23:23 <@Corydon76-dig> That's ancient, as far as corporations are concerned 23:23 <@Dagmar> YOu don't hand the FCC a proposal like the one they've done recently unless you're looking to fuck people over 23:24 <@Dagmar> That was just ludicrous 23:24 <@Corydon76-dig> I cannot read the bills, because they've been long since purged 23:24 <@Dagmar> They claim that they were looking to open "new markets" by allowing people to get content sooner if they can disable component output 23:25 <@Dagmar> Except they worded it so that any show which was eventually going to DVD would be unable to be recorded. 23:25 <@Corydon76-dig> Yeah, that sounds like a content provider's contract talking 23:25 <@Dagmar> ...so pretty much every bit of TV. 23:26 <@Corydon76-dig> While I share your concern, I am not nearly as paranoid about motives 23:27 <@Corydon76-dig> While arguing, I've also taken some extreme positions, knowing that leveler heads would prevail and settle on a compromise that was closer to what I actually wanted. 23:28 <@Dagmar> Yeah well it's this sort of asshattery that's the reason I had to buy an HD-PVR. 23:28 <@Dagmar> WHo, specifically is responsible, I could give two shits. 23:28 <@Dagmar> Just like they don't care specifically who they fuck over. 23:28 <@Corydon76-dig> When bargaining, you'll never get what you want if you start out with the highest point at which you're actually willing to pay. 23:29 <@Dagmar> So, I'm going to get my fucking fair use rights, and every time that industry decides to fuck me over, I will in turn fuck them over by making sure people who probably *don't* have a problem with pirating the fuck out of everything, know exactly how to do it 23:29 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: you need to start out with a "reasonable" position that is much more extreme than what you think you're going to get, if you really want exactly your free speech rights 23:30 <@Dagmar> My position is quite reasonable. 23:30 <@Dagmar> I want to record my own shit. 23:30 <@Corydon76-dig> Compromise is the name of the game, and you need to go FURTHER to get what you really want 23:31 <@Corydon76-dig> Then start out with the position that they should only get copyright for 7 years, for example 23:31 <@Dagmar> Sorry, sounds like moral bankruptcy to me. 23:31 <@Dagmar> THere's pretty much no way that will fly. 23:31 <@Dagmar> ....and it makes you look like an extremist 23:31 <@Corydon76-dig> No, it's bargaining. It's a well-developed economic theory 23:31 <@Dagmar> Good luck with it. 23:31 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: that's why you need good arguments to back up your position 23:31 <@Dagmar> I'm more or less fine with the original copyright deal. 23:32 <@Dagmar> I've no problem with honoring copyright for the originally indicated term. 23:32 <@Corydon76-dig> But the content providers are not. You need to go as extreme as they are, to get what you want 23:32 <@Dagmar> I am not fine with it being extended indefinitely just to protect Mickey Mouse Incoporated. 23:32 <@Dagmar> I am definitely not fine with all fair use rights being cockblocked by technical measures. 23:32 <@Corydon76-dig> So start arguing for the REDUCTION of copyright terms 23:32 <@Dagmar> No. 23:32 <@Dagmar> I am not a politician. 23:33 <@Dagmar> I have no INTENTION of becoming a politician for this. 23:33 <@Corydon76-dig> Yes, you are. You may not like to admit it, but you're a politician 23:33 <@Dagmar> I can't be. 23:33 <@Dagmar> I have no desire whatsoever to lie to get what I want. 23:33 <@Dagmar> I *prefer* to deal fairly at all times. 23:33 <@Corydon76-dig> It's not lying 23:34 <@Dagmar> Yes, for me to say I want copyright to only run for seven years would be a lie. 23:34 <@Corydon76-dig> You don't ever bargain with car salesmen, do you? 23:34 <@Dagmar> No, I just fucking low-ball them in their eyes 23:34 <@Dagmar> If they don't like it, I can easily just *not* buy 23:34 <@Corydon76-dig> This is the same thing. 23:34 <@Dagmar> No, it's not. 23:34 <@Dagmar> I find out how much they're making off the thing 23:35 <@Dagmar> I don't deliberately give them a figure that would cost them money 23:35 <@Corydon76-dig> You forget that in legislation, there is just as much an option of doing nothing as doing something. 23:35 <@Dagmar> If they just did nothing we'd be in better shape 23:35 <@Corydon76-dig> In fact, doing nothing happens far more often than doing something 23:36 <@Dagmar> Yet when they do "something" it's always fucking the littly guy 23:36 <@Corydon76-dig> Yes, you give them a figure that would cost the content industry money 23:36 <@Corydon76-dig> You make it clear that you're going to aim at their wallets as much as they're aiming for yours 23:37 <@Corydon76-dig> and at the end of the day, if nothing happens, you got what you wanted. 23:54 < ware> http://www.codeismylife.com/ascii_chair/8841.html --- Log closed Wed Apr 21 00:00:42 2010