--- Log opened Fri Mar 05 00:00:06 2010
00:04 < fie> That tasted like bananas on my brain
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05:08 < fie> Someone give merc more alcohol... I've been getting bored at night.
05:09 < kive> oh yeah, that's what we want to do.
05:09 < kive> wtf are you still awake for, fie?
05:10 < fie> kive, Well I was programming all day and vomiting over every irc channel I am in all day
05:10 < fie> and then I was talking to this girl about programming
05:10 < fie> and then I setup SSH PKA for the first time.
05:11 < fie> With no password on my key so that I might be leet haxed
05:11 < fie> and I just put on my programming hat again so I'm probably going to make that happen.
05:11 < kive> Sorry, I meant what are you doing awake this time of night, not what have you been up to? Though the rest is cool, too.
05:12 < kive> I got the impression earlier that you were a lot younger... no offense intended.
05:12 < fie> kive, I am always awake this time of night?
05:12 < fie> I either sleep all day or spend day light hour 7 feet underground.
05:13 < fie> kive, I was actually talking about that in a way earlier.
05:13 < fie> The girl I was talking to, I was like "I don't know why but it feels like I'm regressing the more I talk to you"
05:14 < fie> then I made a joke about unprotected sex.
05:14 < kive> I rarely watch this channel -- mainly just keep an eye on things a little and watch what certain friends talk about, throw in my two cents now and again, etc... and to me, I don't know you at all -- as I said the other night... "clean slate" :)
05:14 < fie> It wasn't really a joke, it was just me saying that I had unprotected sex
05:14 < fie> and it was funny
05:14 < kive> So when I ask what you're doing this late -- I guess I was wondering if you're working, staying up through a school night, working on a project, or what..
05:15 < kive> And the girl was a 54-year-old-man if you met her on IRC. ;)
05:15 < fie> If I have to pick one of those then, project.
05:15 < kive> Nah, it's not limited. Just most people are asleep at 6am, or just waking up.
05:16 < fie> kive, no, I met her through a hacker, freak, goth, contortionist..... that I met through a musician...... that I met through a flash website..... that I met through AOL..... that I met through satan.
05:17 < kive> Oh, well, she's totally legit, then.
05:17 < fie> kive, and that's why this is my time and why I demand merc's drunken presence.
05:17 < kive> All you had to mention was AOL. :)
05:17 < fie> kive, everything starts with AOL
05:17 < fie> It's controlled by the illuminati.
05:18 < fie> I wonder if aestetix knows the contortionist.
05:18 < kive> Nah, even the guy responsible for "you've got mail" started at another company in Maryland. :)
05:19 < fie> kive, and the owner of that company is ran by a level 13 free mason which is a sub division of the illuminati.
05:19 < kive> nope
05:19 < kive> I know the guy that used to own that company, too.
05:19 < fie> kive, Damn, you got me :(
05:19 < kive> AOL, or whatever that is now, dunno
05:19 < fie> prodigy?
05:19 < kive> nah
05:20 < kive> But, it was really damn funny...
05:20 < fie> kive, so you're a freemason?
05:20 < kive> When the movie "You've got mail" came out....
05:20 < fie> You've got mail is one of my favorite movies.
05:20 < kive> We rented a theater, and duct taped the postmaster of AOL to a theater chair.
05:20 < kive> Every time "You've got mail!" was mentioned, we threw popcorn and sodas at him.
05:20 < fie> it's #4
05:20 < kive> And we rented this theater for hours and hours.
05:20 < kive> ;)
05:21 < fie> kive, So when do I start working?
05:22 < fie> kive, if you are bored, you should quiz me on You've Got Mail... or Hackers....
05:22 < kive> I'm okay, thanks, lol
05:23 < fie> kive, Awww, some on satan.
05:23 < fie> come*
05:23 < kive> Sorry, I thought it was a little funny, since we brought up AOL
05:23 < fie> Eh?
05:24 < fie> It is interesting.... it sounded like a good time... which is why I can has job now plz?
05:24 < fie> I kid I kid.
05:24 < kive> most people are serious when they ask me that question. ;)
05:24 < fie> I've never found anyone that would quiz me on Hackers except for my friend who knows dick about computers....
05:24 < kive> Okay, here's a first: What is the technical consultant of Hacker's favorite beer? You have 60 seconds, no googling.
05:25 < fie> kive, Well this sounds like it happened ages ago and I have no idea what you do....
05:25 < fie> Hmmmmm
05:25 < fie> PBR
05:25 < fie> And that's totally obscure
05:25 < fie> EVIL!
05:25 < kive> bzzzz
05:25 < kive> his name is Eric Corley, aka Emmanuel Goldstein, and his favorite beer is whatever you're buying, in my experience.
05:26 < kive> And not knowing what I do just means you don't know me much. ;)
05:26 < fie> ALEX I WILL STAB YOUR FACE WITH A BROKEN CHAIR LEG IF YOU TRICK QUESTION ME LIKE THAT AGAIN!
05:26 < kive> He's also the founder of 2600
05:26 < kive> btw
05:26 < fie> Hackers for 400
05:27 < fie> kive, you asked me what is favorite beer was not what his bio was :P
05:27 < fie> I'd expect you to expect me to know WHO he was.
05:29 < fie> I really can't answer questions about production crew... I only know 2 of the actors names
05:29 < fie> I'm bad at that stuff
05:29 < kive> That's true. But you could have tried a half-answer. ;)
05:29 < fie> My ubernerd skill is not maxed out
05:29 < kive> And he was hardly production crew in this circle.
05:29 < kive> I got that. ;)
05:30 < fie> Any more trivia? This time I will try to half answer if I can.
05:30 < fie> I need to warm up for Carolinacon :D
05:30 < kive> Nah, I was already your first. ;)
05:30 < kive> 06:24 < fie> I've never found anyone that would quiz me on Hackers except for my friend who knows dick about computers....
05:31 < kive> And, while I don't know a lot about computers, I know an awful lot about networking and security. ;)
05:31 < fie> kive, Second :P
05:31 < fie> He did quiz me.
05:31 < kive> Fine, lol
05:31 < fie> asked me mostly names of characters etc
05:31 < fie> Everyone always trying to pop my cherry
05:31 < fie> I swear.
05:31 < kive> Okay, tiebreaker:
05:31 < fie> YAY!
05:32 < kive> In ASCII, show what Angelina Jolie would look like wearing that leather. 60 seconds, go!
05:32 < fie> hold on, you need to stop the clock for 3 seconds.
05:32 < fie> by 3 seconds
05:32 < fie> "wearing that leather"?
05:33 < fie> you mean the motorcycle jacket she was wearing when you see her boobs for 5 frames?
05:33 < kive> yes, the leather she got for the dude.
05:33 < kive> nope
05:33 < kive> the full leather outfilt
05:33 < kive> outfit
05:33 < fie> Was not full leather!
05:33 < fie> :P
05:34 < fie> It was like a bathing suit except more like BDSM vinyl
05:34 < kive> nah, show it in ASCII art-scene style. ;)
05:34 < kive> buzzer has already gone, but you can get extra credit for showing us anyways, heh
05:34 < fie> errrrr
05:34 < fall0ut> _0_
05:34 < fall0ut> \' '\ '=o='
05:35 < fall0ut> .|!| .| |
05:35 < fie> damn you ice.org for being down
05:35 < fie> SECOND TIME YOU HAVE FAILED ME TONIGHT
05:35 < kive> heh
05:35 < kive> I have the artpack DVD a few tables over. No save for you. ;)
05:35 < fie> .... :O
05:35 < kive> Besides, Hackers was funny, but lame as shit
05:35 < fall0ut> _0_
05:35 < fie> : O :O O: O: O: O :O
05:36 < fie> kive, rocky horror was lame as shit too but sexually free people everywhere watch that on a regular basis.
05:36 < kive> I love Rocky Horror. I love Hackers. Neither is particularly leet, tho.
05:36 < fie> I honestly wouldn't change Hackers if I could.
05:37 < fie> It's so fucking campy
05:37 < fie> I love it.
05:37 < kive> I would; Angelina Jolie should have had more nude scenes.
05:37 < fie> kive, I'm not going to argue that aspect....
05:38 < fie> Maybe as VHS bonus features or something.
05:39 < fie> kive, So are you one of those folk that I should know?
05:39 < fie> Is this like the time I was sitting beside Winn at DC?
05:39 < kive> Dunno.
05:39 < kive> Heh, Winn is a trip. Maybe he'll even have a different presentation in a few years time.
05:40 < kive> And I can outdrink him in Hacker Jeopardy, even if it means chasing him down afterwards.
05:41 < fie> kive, you should be my friend next time I go to DC
05:41 < kive> Why? :)
05:41 < kive> You don't even know me, and likewise, I you.
05:41 < fie> kive, I can't bust on you for dropping names and shit, I was doing that yesterday. But like, defcon fucking sucks if you don't have a crew to hang with.
05:41 < fie> And most of my pholk are from NC and the NC crew mostly keeps it all in the family.
05:42 < kive> Well.... two responses to two statements:
05:42 < fie> kive, any experience with me is an adventure
05:42 < fie> that was definitely 5 statements.
05:42 < kive> 1) When I drop names, it's because I have some experience with the folks. I don't claim to be best friends with either Eric or Winn, but I know enough dirt on each, I suppose, as they do on me.
05:43 < kive> And with regards to NC... you're in #se2600.
05:43 < fie> kive, you noticed that huh?
05:43 < kive> #se2600 was built for a purpose, a large part of which was expanding the southeastern US's 2600 group, since most cities were pretty damn small.
05:43 < fie> I was trying to be more low key about it :P
05:43 < kive> So, earn the respect of folks in here, and you should not lack for friends at Defcon or any other number of contentions.
05:44 < kive> conventions
05:44 < fie> At summercon people were saying se was started by 404 but nashville is totally owning it up.
05:44 < fie> Them hill pholk got some get up and go.
05:44 < kive> Well, 404 was the biggest 2600 group for years and years and years.
05:45 < kive> But the Nashvegas folks are really damn assertive and aggressive, and Phreaknic is the biggest SE US hacker con around, so they get to take lead for an awful lot of reasons, ranging from respect to capability.
05:45 < fie> Looking at the map it makes sense that atl/nash are the biggest in the region
05:45 < fie> of overall activity.
05:45 < kive> ask rhia or drag0n or dolemite or anyone else why and how se2600 was started if you're really curious.
05:45 < kive> But here's the thing:
05:46 < kive> just the other day you were telling me that you didn't want the respect of others.
05:46 < kive> Now, I honestly responded with: you have a blank slate. And with me, you do.
05:46 < kive> Likewise, I believe that you're somewhat serious, even if joking, about wanting a crew to hang with at cons. Who knows, maybe I'm on crack here.
05:46 < kive> But perhaps I've implicitly demonstrated the case for respect around #se2600?
05:47 < fie> kive, I dunno. Respect is cool but I don't want people to tell me that they have it for me.
05:47 < fie> it has to do with low self worth
05:47 < kive> Would you mind explaining that a little for me?
05:47 < fie> There are 3 or 4 people in the community that I more than respect but I try not to talk about it.
05:48 < fie> Explaining? My ideas around respect?
05:49 < fie> I knew a lot of people at defcon but I really don't have strong bonds like others have. Everyone I know I only see a few times a year and until I came in here last year I was limited to the VA/NC area
05:50 < kive> fie, I'm asking you to explain:
05:50 < kive> 06:46 < fie> kive, I dunno. Respect is cool but I don't want people to tell me that they have it for me.
05:50 < kive> 06:47 < fie> it has to do with low self worth
05:50 < fie> And maybe you are right about respect but when my effects on the community don't effect your part of the community any respect I might have doesn't transfer to you.
05:51 < fie> kive, I don't think I've done anything as of yet to deserve an amount of respect that it needs to be mentioned.
05:51 < fie> It is probably not low self esteem... I just said that.
05:51 < fie> It's high standards.
05:52 < fie> Although just like with douchbags.... douche bags can cross certain lines with me and never come back....
05:52 < fie> someone can do one or two things that mean a WHOLE lot
05:52 < fie> and push them to the top in my book.
05:52 < fie> But the things that I respect people for aren't the same as what you would.
05:53 < fie> I'm really not Italian enough to be having this conversation.
05:53 < fie> Sicilian, sorry.
05:53 < kive> heh... you're holding your end of the conversation just fine. Explain the part about how the things you respect people for differ for the things I would?
05:55 < fie> That was hypothetical... or metaphore. Maybe some are the same maybe some aren't. I have a lot of respect for people with unnatural communication abilities.
05:55 < fie> People that had to work to be able to communicate well. And then use it positively.
05:55 < fie> Bridging communication gaps
05:56 < fie> kive, I'm 24, btw.
05:56 < kive> ty -- just wanted to verify that I had made a bad assumption about you
05:57 < kive> I don't want to interrupt -- let me know when you're done and we'll take this in turns. ;)
05:57 < fie> "bad" or inaccurate?
05:57 < kive> inaccurate and bad, but appropriate at the time
05:57 < fie> Kay.
05:58 < kive> my turn to ramble? :)
05:58 < fie> As far as me looking at myself, I do a lot of different things from every part of the spectrum.
05:58 < fie> I hope that in the end I end up somewhere in the middle.
05:59 < fie> But yeah, I could keep going but anything else I think to say is not important.
05:59 < fie> Before you start, do you have a history in psychology?
05:59 < kive> nope
06:00 < fie> There's a couple of phrases you said that made me think that you do.
06:00 < kive> juggling personalities, perhaps -- but nothing that could be termed psychology.
06:00 < fie> :)
06:01 < kive> I would say that I am every bit the business geek that I am the networking/security/hacker geek, so that might explain some. I also tend to be an extremely good judge of folks and their character, for whatever that's worth.
06:01 < kive> So, let me take a stab at some of this.
06:01  * fie hands you the knife
06:01  * fie sips some root beer
06:02 < kive> 1) Your age. 24 is cool, that's a great age. Based on how I observed you before, I thought you were a -lot- younger... 15/16 or so. That said, I don't mean any offense, and when I told you that I give you a clean slate, I mean it, so I'm not holding that against you.
06:02 < kive> That's just how you were acting in IRC, and IRC is usually kind of immature. Depending on the day you see me, you might think the same. Limited exposure, etc...
06:03 < kive> 2) Respect in this kind of culture is kind of an odd thing.
06:04 < kive> It's measured in an awful lot of ways.
06:04  * fie .
06:04 < kive> If I knew you personally, I might respect or not, based on a whole series of respect spectrums.
06:05 < kive> But in the "hacker" sense -- that all of us share, even if many of us are a bit older than we were when we were first labeled as such...
06:05 < kive> we tend to respect each other in terms of achievement, knowledge, competence.
06:06 < kive> And we all have our own special social craziness around these parts.
06:06 < fie> I'm pretty sure that I take the cake in most instances.
06:06 < kive> There's also the social level, though -- how we respect each other as people.
06:07 < kive> There are people logged in right now that I've interviewed. That I've helped/tried to help find jobs for. That I've helped run conventions with. etc...
06:08 < kive> And by that measure, we respect each other in the above ways (achievement, knowledge, competence), but also in terms of being able to get along with each other, being able to foster community, being able to contribute to group efforts, whatever.
06:08 < kive> The point here is that most folks in this channel are around because they respect the others in here, and vice versa, at least to some degree. Some people come and go for a few years, but they're the outliers.
06:09 < kive> When I look at Rhia, Cory, and Dolemite -- I respect each of them, but from different angles and for different reasons.
06:10 < kive> But I believe the input of each may be valuable. I believe knowing each person is worthwhile.
06:10 < kive> Likewise, most folks around here that know/remember me, tend to respect me a great deal.
06:10 < kive> That respect is earned and deserved over the span of many years, and for many different reasons.
06:10 < kive> You joked earlier:
06:11 < kive> 06:21 < fie> kive, So when do I start working?
06:11 < fie> mmhmm?
06:12 < kive> The funny thing about that is that my -actual- job involves being the exact person that you want to ask that question of, in a lot of cases. There are a couple of folks here that have sent me resumes in the last week or two, and I've done my best to help them.
06:13 < kive> When someone I *respect* asks for help, I give it.
06:13 < kive> When someone I don't know, they get no help.
06:13 < kive> Worse, when someone I don't respect, I'll actively work to block them from working with me.
06:13 < kive> It's a small world.
06:14 < fie> I wouldn't expect help from you, as I have only ever talked to you once before, which is why it was a joke.
06:14 < fie> You do recall that I asked "are you one of those people I should know"
06:14 < kive> But that same philosophy (implied) works in a lot of aspects of life. From introducing friends to friends, introducing people to experts they can collaborate with, or introducing people to new job opportunities -- respect is kind of the key.
06:14 < kive> Yup :)
06:14 < kive> I'm just answering.
06:14 < kive> Almost done --
06:14 < fie> also "wouldn't expect help from you" thing kinda sounded dicky and I didn't mean it like that.
06:14 < fie> :-X
06:15 < kive> 3) You being here
06:15 < kive> And this does extend beyond this conversation.
06:15 < kive> Presumably, you're here because you find common ground with some folks, met some folks at a con, or a 2600 meeting or whatever.
06:16 < kive> Generally speaking, it pays great dividends to assume a certain level of respect until that person proves they are not deserving of it.
06:16 < kive> Don't get me wrong, I can be a total ass to people I don't respect.
06:16 < kive> The difference is, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to folks.
06:17 < kive> It's usually pretty damn wise, imo.
06:17 < fie> END OF LINE?
06:17 < kive> <eol, sure>
06:17 < fie> lol
06:17 < fie> (tron)
06:18 < fie> I'm going to start with 3 and go back
06:18 < kive> k
06:19 < fie> I think part of the problem here, aside from my blunt randomness, is that I talk smack to people that other people are friends with.
06:19 < fie> Off the top of my head, I don't ever recall directly disrespecting anyone that I didn't know.
06:21 < fie> I do have a lack of filters when it comes to irc. I'm not very verbal in real life but I DO a lot of things that are as crazy as the way I talk on IRC.
06:21 < fie> Any response to that before I go to 2?
06:22 < kive> Well, I'd say that you forget the part about those that are watching, not talking to you -- but that's as much their issue for taking things out of context.
06:23 < kive> But I'd also say that a lot of folks respond differently to IRC. Not everyone jokes all the time, or acts "normal" as you perceive it.
06:23 < kive> Some folks take you seriously and judge you on that basis, I'm guessing
06:23 < kive> That's it
06:23 < kive> (you rarely see me talk, for example)
06:24 < fie> I've never noticed your handle.
06:24 < kive> Only been here for years and years and years. I've been off for about 3 years, came back about 3 months ago.
06:25 < fie> If I am busting anyone's balls it's likely that I've already done so in another channel. I really do need to chill out though. I understand the perspective from the other side.
06:25 < kive> Well, it comes down to this: What is #se2600 here for?
06:25 < kive> People will judge in that context.
06:25 < fie> Linking people together
06:26 < fie> Hacking the planet?
06:26 < kive> Just about everyone in this channel was a leet hax0r at age 12-15. Most of us were immature at times, at best. Now, most of us have grown up.
06:26 < kive> That's a lot to go up against. ;)
06:27 < fie> and that's a good spot to go to #2
06:27 < kive> And in a lot of cases, people are wrong when they judge. A lot of us are in our late twenties, thirties, or fourties.
06:27 < kive> (I'm not too far from you, for the record -- 32)
06:27 < kive> go on :)
06:27 < fie> I DON"T KNOW ANYONE HERE!
06:28 < kive> Sure you do -- you're already getting to know me. ;) And again, you *are* here for some reason. :)
06:28 < fie> Like really, I know of everyone and I'm guessing by now most people know of me (in a bad connotation, likely)
06:28  * kive shuts up to let you talk.
06:29 < fie> One person here I have known for about 6 years, one I have known for about 4, and another for 2 (even though he says 3 but I was so far from reality I can't confirm or deny it)
06:30 < fie> So there's 3 people that I've known for more than a couple of years
06:30 < fie> of those people I've only met 2
06:30 < fie> of those 2 I've never seen them anywhere other than a hotel.
06:30 < fie> (for gay sex)
06:30 < kive> rofl
06:30 < fie> (see there, I go again)
06:31 < fie> But I pretty much only say shit like that about people I know.
06:31 < kive> Nah, that's just funny. Bringing you back, though -- why are you here?
06:31 < kive> like, why #se2600?
06:31 < kive> or why 2600?
06:31 < fie> Because I want to be the network.
06:32 < kive> Okay, explain, and assume I'm treating you really f'n seriously right now. ;)
06:32 < kive> [which I am]
06:32 < fie> Although the question sounds direct it's very open ended so I answered it the best way my mind can describe
06:33 < kive> Okay, so in the spirit of what I said, tell me how you mean that?
06:33 < kive> [sorry, when you say you want to be the network, I think of that damn Verizon dude]
06:34 < fie> I have a general disdain for the general populous and although too many of the people in the community suffer from a real bad case of the hacker attitude without the hacker mentality, I still am willing to take the risk of dealing with pholks that I might not enjoy so that I can meet people that I do like and I do respect.
06:34 < fie> kive, I started a 2600 meeting.
06:34 < kive> nifty, I've never done that. :)
06:34 < fie> Getting back to my evil side and my good side.
06:35 < fie> It was partially selfish and it was partially to push the movement forward.
06:35  * kive and yet, the fie respect-ometer just went up +1
06:36 < fie> kive, exactly but I can't go around at defcon telling everyone that I started a meetup. I would loose respect for that.
06:37 < fie> There were about 5 people from the DC2600 crew so I'm sure that they were aware but that doesn't really matter.
06:37 < kive> DC2600?
06:37  * kive doesn't know what that is.
06:37 < fie> Washington DC
06:38 < kive> ah. You know knarph or kathleen or jlasser, out of curiousity?
06:38 < fie> Ehhhh
06:38 < fie> I know jdog
06:38  * kive apologizes for interrupting, feel free to tell me to stfu while it's your turn.
06:38 < fie> Only barely.
06:39 < fie> Nah, I don't have anything in buffer right now... I'm grokking data in low memory
06:39  * kive stfu's self for the moment.
06:39  * fie likes sounding like he's in an 80s movie.
06:40 < fie> Oh, right, so, as far as those people go, unless they have any other names....
06:40 < kive> (just their real ones)
06:40 < fie> which are for privileged brains?
06:41 < kive> it's for them to share.
06:41 < fie> Are you speaking of people who may or may not run a convention?
06:42 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Todd, @Dagmar
06:42 < kive> but the first two are a significant portion of the (washington-)dc movement in the late '90s for both 2600 and cypherpunks.
06:42 < kive> [iirc, which is not at all complete]
06:42 < fie> I'm really not sure if I do or not....
06:43 < kive> no worries.... keep going.
06:43 < fie> The only big people I know in DC is this small asian woman who likes to grab my man-boob
06:43 < fie> and a Mr Farr
06:43 < kive> nick?
06:43 < fie> Yeah
06:43 < kive> heh
06:43 < kive> k
06:43 < kive> he's newer.
06:44  * fie keeps personal stuff out of this segment of conversation....
06:44 < kive> go on
06:45 < fie> ok... sooo...
06:45 < fie> I know I know.. hold on, rebuffering :D
06:46 < fie> Oh, and 1) was about who you are
06:46 < fie> I guess I kind of already started to mirror that.
06:46 < fie> I got involved with all this jazz when I was in college
06:46 < fie> I was doing a paper for intro to computers about haxx0rz
06:46 -!- brookshi1e [mbrooks@65.172.243.127] has joined #se2600
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06:47 < fie> So I hopped on IRC in the lab and hit up 2600net
06:47 -!- 92AAABJ2I [~dasunt@174-20-138-161.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #se2600
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06:47 < fie> The very first person that I talked to on IRC (excluding microsoft chat) I still talk to today.
06:48 < fie> And back to respect, that person, I have quite a bit of respect for in some ways but there are certain things that he does that kind of frustrate me.
06:49 < fie> Well, I respect him in a few ways actually, but yeah.
06:49 < fie> And so I talked on IRC for a week or two and had my mom drive me 2 and a half hours to the charlotte meet.
06:50 < fie> I was 17 at the time
06:50 < fie> Got my license when I was 18 and went to a few more meets
06:50 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @brookshire, @rhia, @dasunt
06:50 < fie> I don't know why I"m avoiding his name...
06:51 < fie> The first person was Schism... he's really nice and really smart but knows where his boundries are as any person should.
06:51 < fie> (and likes to take long walks on the beach)
06:52 < fie> But no, me, him, a friend of mine, and his room mate all drove down to ATL for IZ4
06:52 < kive> since we're on #2, though -- let me repost the conversation:
06:52 < kive> 07:03 < kive> 2) Respect in this kind of culture is kind of an odd thing.
06:52 < kive> 07:03 < kive> It's measured in an awful lot of ways.
06:52 < kive> 07:04  * fie .
06:52 < kive> 07:04 < kive> If I knew you personally, I might respect or not, based on a whole series of respect spectrums.
06:52 < kive> 07:04 < kive> But in the "hacker" sense -- that all of us share, even if many of us are a bit older than we were when we were first labeled as such...
06:52 < kive> 07:05 < kive> we tend to respect each other in terms of achievement, knowledge, competence.
06:52 < kive> 07:06 < kive> And we all have our own special social craziness around these parts.
06:53 < kive> 07:06 < fie> I'm pretty sure that I take the cake in most instances.
06:53 < kive> 07:06 < kive> There's also the social level, though -- how we respect each other as people.
06:53 < kive> 07:06 < kive> There are people logged in right now that I've interviewed. That I've helped/tried to help find jobs for. That I've helped run conventions with. etc...
06:53 < kive> 07:07 < kive> And by that measure, we respect each other in the above ways (achievement, knowledge, competence), but also in terms of being able to get along with each other, being able to foster community, being able to contribute to group efforts, whatever.
06:53 < kive> 07:08 < kive> The point here is that most folks in this channel are around because they respect the others in here, and vice versa, at least to some degree. Some people come and go for a few years, but they're the outliers.
06:53 < kive> ...
06:53  * fie blinks
06:53 < kive> Just trying to tie it back a little.
06:54 < kive> You've made contributions -- check.
06:54 < fie> Well I did a little bit.... 1) was you talking about your self.... so I started telling you about myself.... and then that ended up going back to 2
06:54 < kive> I'll give you props for those. Starting a 2600 group is no easy task.
06:54 < kive> And you have people you've respected -- check, also.
06:55 < kive> I don't believe you're incapable of respect.
06:55 < fie> You will have to forgive me, sleep dep wreaks havoc on my ability to organize thoughts. I am either ultra random or uber linear.
06:55 < kive> And sorry for the interuptions, I guess I took you off-track
06:55 < kive> But, given the above, I'm interested in what you think.
06:55 < fie> Well I'm pretty sure that my track was going nowhere.
06:56 < fie> other than my life story up until now.
06:56 < fie> What I think about what?
06:56 < kive> And that's fair, and not unread. ;)
06:56 < kive> well, you never did really answer -- why you're here. What do you, personally, hope to get out of #se2600, for one.
06:57 < kive> Or contribute, conversely
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06:57 < fie> What was it that I said?
06:57 < kive> But mainly, if the conversation is mainly about respect, I mentioned my own thoughts above, and I'm still curious what your response is. (Yes, I realize that merges 2/3 somewhat)
06:57 < fie> I want to be the network?
06:58 < fie> How to explain that.....
06:58 < kive> yup
06:59  * kive has to sleep fairly soon, btw. Gotta get a couple of hours before work.
06:59 < fie> kive, I can't answer that without recursing my existence.
07:00 < fie> My presence here is by chance. My fixed status here is because I have no other choice.
07:00 < fie> I'm here because there is nothing else for me.
07:01 < fie> Sometimes when I stare at my channel list and everything is gray I think to myself that maybe I could go try out Yahoo again or maybe one of those webcam chat sites.
07:01 < kive> Bah
07:01 < kive> I don't believe that latter part for a second.
07:02 < kive> You can start a 2600 meeting, and then #se2600 is a random chatroom for you?
07:02 < fie> The community is really all that matters but it honestly doesn't matter any more than anything else.
07:02 < kive> Wait a sec -- community
07:02 < fie> Asking me why I'm in #se2600 is the same as asking me why I exist.
07:02 < fie> I wouldn't do it any other way
07:02 < kive> Nah, there's a lot of 2600 and hack chats on a variety of networks
07:02 < kive> #hack on EFnet is a lot of fun, heh
07:03 < kive> Why *here*?
07:03 < fie> I think I heard of it at OZ last year.
07:03 < fie> I'm on #nc2600 and #va2600 on 2600net
07:03 < fie> I don't bother with the national stuff
07:04 < kive> Well, let me offer a few -possible- explanations
07:04 < kive> 1) You came here because it was regionally significant
07:04 < fie> kive, I know a lot of people?
07:04 < fie> Yessssss
07:04 < kive> That's even better. ;)
07:04 < fie> At one point I was going to re-do the website
07:05 < fie> I've tried like 3 times but the more work I put into it the more it seems like a waste of effort.
07:05 < kive> The #se2600 website?
07:05 < fie> Yeah
07:05 < kive> Hmm
07:05 < kive> I think that's a challenge, but I'd never call it a waste. But I'm biased. ;)
07:05 < fie> Actually I think I got something together at one point... which might be online... one sec
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07:06 < fie> well I mean.... se2600.org just has that certain feel from a certain time when ther eweren't as many people who knew about CSS
07:06 < fie> and it was all like.... I dunno....
07:07 < fie> I mean honestly from a professional perspective the design is totally lame but it definitely hits a sweet spot for me.
07:07 < kive> Sure, it's a bit dated. Goes back to @lantaCon days if I'm not mistaken.
07:07 < fie> The links are convoluted though... that's the only thing that NEEDS to be chagned... and updated info....
07:08 < kive> No clue who even runs it nowadays, honestly. Suprised that isn't a group effort at this point, imo.
07:09 < kive> wilpig, I'm guessing?
07:09 < fie> evilpig?
07:10 < fie> I dunno
07:10 < fie> someone set me up an ftp account but I definitely lost that information 5 times over.
07:10 < fie> http://fietronic.com/se2600.org/
07:10 < fie> which that seems amature as well..
07:11 <@coil> gay
07:11 < fie> HORiZONTAL SCROLLBAR! PFT!
07:11 < kive> coil, stfu, and let fie talk, pls
07:11 < fie> Yeah coil !
07:11 <@coil> pfft
07:11 <@coil> ill +q ur ass
07:11 < fie> lol
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07:11 <@coil> talk now bitch
07:11 < kive> Okay, I see some improvements. But, it's also not a team effort.
07:12 < kive> I'm not sure what's up with the politics of the site nowadays -- can't speak to that.
07:12 < fie> kive, coil is the one I've known the longest but oddly not from 2600
07:12 < kive> okay
07:12 < fie> I met him in the embroidery community.
07:12 < kive> lol
07:12 < kive> back to the topic?
07:12 < fie> sure
07:12 < fie> I'm not sure where else to take it?
07:12 <@coil> no
07:13 <@coil> lets talk about me more
07:13 < kive> k, I need to sleep anyways.
07:13 <@coil> who gives a fuck about some shitty website no one goes to
07:13 < kive> Have fun coil.
07:13 <@coil> oh i am
07:13 < kive> fie, I'll be around later today/weekend
07:13 < fie> Oh boy... :)
07:13 < kive> we can carry on if you like then. ;)
07:13 < fie> kive, Well it was good getting to know you. Maybe defcon some day?
07:13 <@coil> its a tarp
07:13 < kive> Thanks for talking and being a bit serious with it.
07:14 < kive> I'm there as often as I can be -- will definitely be there this year. I fly from amsterdam to vegas for black hat and DC and back to amsterdam for more fun.
07:14 < fie> lol
07:14 < kive> I won't even see home in July, heh
07:14 < fie> Adventures!
07:15 < kive> Well, hacker cons, industry conferences, and training and presentations, but yeah
07:15 < kive> I'm dutch, so amsterdam is always nice. ;)
07:15 < kive> anyways -- afk
07:15 < fie> I really wanted to tour the netherlands.
07:16 < kive> your channel, coil
07:16 < fie> specifically rotterdam
07:16 < fie> kive, Ok, later.
07:17 < fie> Dear coil......
07:17 < fie> How is your embroidery coming along?
07:17 <@coil> idk
07:17 <@coil> i just got home
07:17 < fie> I am still working on a way to convert jpeg files into .DST format so that we can put designs onto your afghans
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08:17 < ware> [MAINSCREEN]# turn on && setup bomb
08:17 <@coil> dumb
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08:19 < fie> So where is the balance?
08:28 < fie> kive has my mind churning.... metacog is a bitch and a half
08:28 < fie> I can't remember first coming here
08:29 < fie> I don't remember any conversations I had here longer than 2 or 3 months ago.
08:30 < fie> And most of all, what do I get out of any of this.
08:31 < fie> I know these are questions that should not be thought about and this is why I must think of them.
08:34 < fie> So, imagine, if you would, what it might be like your mind slipped into a state where you consciously *thought* faster than you could perceive your thoughts.
08:35 < fie> be like if*
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09:56 < fie> Anyone here know Quiet Riot?
09:59 <@ShadowHntr> i know of them
10:00 < fie> I was speaking of the person but thanks
10:02 < fie> Imagine someone as nice as skydog and as cool as Al and and Chill as a block of ice chipped off a mammoth's ass. I hope I'm able to make CC happen for me.
10:12 <@nachoguy> mr0nin
10:16 < fie> howdy
10:17 < fie> Aside from the meet is today a holiday?
10:17 < fie> seems a lot more like people are not at work
10:17 < fie> since all IRCing is done from work.
10:21 -!- Peaches1984 [three@c-69-137-80-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
11:11 <@nachoguy> seems like a normal day
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11:33 < fie> the belief of the belief that people should believe little to nothing about what everyone believes that the majority believes about our existence.
11:35  * opticron segfaults
11:36 <@nachoguy> devide by 0
11:36 <@nachoguy> divide
11:39 <@opticron> that sentence *FRAGMENT* has too many uses of variants of the word belief
11:39 <@opticron> i shudder to think what the whole sentence might do to someone
11:41 <@opticron> but in fairness, the second to last believes would be better as "suspects"
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12:07 <@Dolemite> mr0ning +- 8m, be0tches and h0ez!
12:07 <@nachoguy> ahoy
12:08 <@Dolemite> arrrr!  ahoy, matey!
12:30 < fie> I need to have ops in here so I can +q myself when I find that I am getting way out of hand.
12:30 < fie> That's a valid excuse right?
12:31 < fie> I don't have the will power to sign out unless I am being summoned by fleshy-fem-bots or perhaps if a road trip is upon me.
12:32 < fie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg
12:33 < fie> I was explaining to a friend hwo to reverse troll people last night but I don't think he really understood the technique...
12:34 < fie> I'm pretty sure that they very first time that I came in here I got trolled a bit.
12:34 < fie> Dolemite, have you got some oldish logs?
12:35 < fie> Dolemite, also, I heard that you're the guy to go to about rocking chair stories about the birth of what we know as se2600
12:35 < fie> I got the money if you got the time
12:35 < fie> I mean.... I got the ability to read things for a period of time and at least check logs later.... if you got the time
12:36 < fie> I think there was a song that went like that.
12:38 <@Corydon76-dig> Hank Williams, Sr.
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12:44 <@nachoguy> lefty frizzell
12:49 < fie> orlly?
12:53 <@Corydon76-dig> Yeah, it was a hit, so it's been recorded by dozens.  He's right, though, Lefty Frizzell is the writer
12:59 -!- mirovengi [~mirovengi@99-3-161-173.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:20 <@sdodson> oh?!
13:24 <@Dolemite> fie : I don't keep IRC logs
13:24 < ware> grab yo left nut
13:24 < ware> make the right one jealous
13:25 < eryc> k
13:25 < fie> Dolemite, and the other thing?
13:26 < eryc> is a lie
13:28 <@Dolemite> I didn't get involved in se2600 until PN4
13:28 <@Dolemite> I'm the one to go to that can talk about the birth of the Nashville 2600 Corporation
13:29 <@Dolemite> jonnyx, decius and rattle would be more of the birth of se2600 people
13:30 < eryc> mostly decius going to gatech created the regional affiliation
13:31 < eryc> rattle was there for PN2 i think, maybe the first one too
13:31 < rattleXw> Yes.  It was just previous to the first PN that I took over all the mailing lists.
13:31 -!- Venom_X is now known as Venom_lnch
13:31 <@Corydon76-dig> tlorah.net
13:32 <@Corydon76-dig> the land of rape and honey
13:32  * rattleXw suddenly is wooshed away in a flashback.
13:32 <@sdodson> that's gross!
13:39  * Corydon76-dig has been having fun today learning the kqueue(2) interface in BSD and OS X
13:40 < ware> kqueue pew pew pew
13:41 -!- oddball [~oddball@c-76-22-243-130.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
13:47 <@Corydon76-dig> kqueue is similar in purpose to inotify, though the interface is quite different
13:49 < ware> i fart in your general direction
13:49 < ware> im picking up a blackberry for $40!
13:49 < ware> woohoo
13:50 < ware> CL, hope the esn is good
13:50 <@Dolemite> ware : My condolences
13:50 < ware> whaatt?? blackberrys pwn
13:50 <@Dolemite> They used to
13:50 < ware> 8330 Curve ftw
13:50 < ware> does all i need
13:51 < ware> what smart phones do yall have?
13:51 <@Dolemite> I'm lovin' my Pre.
13:51 <@Dolemite> My wife had an Android and took it back.  It sucked.
13:51 < ware> the pre finn had felt cheap and plasticy
13:51 < ware> he complains about battery life on it
13:51 <@Dolemite> The keyboard on the Android was great, but the OS was shit.
13:52 < ware> droid got some more RnD to tune stuff i think
13:52 <@Dolemite> I have the factory battery and can go a full day on a charge with no problem
13:52 < ware> well he rocks pandoa / facebook / myspace / cl apps all day
13:52 <@Dolemite> Droid's problem is that when Google open sourced it, it fragmented the market just like when we had 432,000 different distros of linux.
13:53 <@Dolemite> ware : He needs a touchstone, then
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13:54 <@Dolemite> The best thing about the webOS/Pre market in my opinion, though, is the way that Palm has embraced and even encouraged the homebrew app market.  Because of that there are a lot more free/OSS apps out there that are easily found than in the Android marketplace.
13:55 < fie> Mmmm old schooooool
13:55 <@Dolemite> The phone and platform have faults, but the attitude towards developers is a huge offset
13:57 <@Dolemite> The Ares development platform is pretty sweet, too
13:59 < ware> pre has been out longer tho
13:59 < ware> droid will have all de hacks too
13:59 < ware> im just happy with a curve for now
14:00 < ware> havent had a smart phone in 6-8 months
14:00 < ware> also, http://www.recipestar.com/pages/bacon_life
14:01 <@Dolemite> What?  Android was out over a year before the Pre
14:02 <@Corydon76-dig> Dolemite: Dunno, the attitude towards Android developers is pretty good
14:02 <@Dolemite> DROID is simply branding.  It's just Android OS on a Verizon phone.
14:03 <@Corydon76-dig> Is Palm aggressively giving away phones at developer conferences?
14:03 <@Dolemite> Corydon76-dig : It's certainly much better than with Apple, but the problem with Android is that the various builds have a lot of incompatibilities.
14:03 <@Dolemite> Corydon76-dig : Yes, they have been, lately.
14:04 <@Dolemite> Now that they have the OpenGL libs in the OS, they are courting game devs like crazy
14:08 <@Corydon76-dig> Not that I'm going to change the platform itself, but the fact that the Android platform is open is another huge draw
14:09 < eryc> my phone is riced out and my distro is better than you
14:44 <@nachoguy> does your phone have --funrollloops?
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14:49 <@Corydon76-dig> I have seen one set of code that actually depended upon unrolled loops, but the programmer unrolled them manually in his code... time sensitive DSP routines
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15:44 < ware> wewt, new bb
15:44 < ware> yay for me
16:05 < eryc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRMwdmFYWg
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18:13 <@Dagmar> Well, crap
18:13 <@Dagmar> I've really gotta set a calendar thing up for the damn meetings.
18:13 <@Lissa> aw
18:13 <@Lissa> we're here
18:13 <@Dagmar> I just started some damn laundry
18:13 < Shadow404> oh damn
18:14 < Shadow404> thanks for reminding me
18:14 <@Dagmar> hah
18:14 < Shadow404> need to put stuff on dryer before it goes moldy
18:14 <@Dagmar> I just saw something come up on the list
18:14 <@Dagmar> Ah
18:14 < eryc> yea i need to do laundry too
18:14 < eryc> thanks for the reminder!
18:14 < Shadow404> did something like that before a vacation
18:14 < Shadow404> moldy clothes 2 weeks later
18:14 < Shadow404> haha
18:14 <@Lissa> ew
18:14 <@Dagmar> Yuck
18:15 < eryc> i thought the rust spots were neat too
18:15 < eryc> from the holes in the side of the washer
18:15 < eryc> perhaps it was mold
18:15 <@Lissa> ew
18:15 < eryc> i ended up with a load of spotted undershirts
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18:42 < ware> dupez
18:42 < ware> how go the meeting
18:42 <@Dolemite> warebe0tch!
18:42 <@Dolemite> why aren't you here?
18:42 < ware> cuz i live in cookeville
18:43 <@Dolemite> we're about to get nekkid and jump in the hot tub!
18:43 < ware> and i heard tyranny has taken over
18:43 <@Dolemite> You live in Cookevegas now?
18:43 < ware> who told you that story haha
18:43 < ware> yes for the time being
18:43 < ware> hope to move back to nashville in a few months
18:43 < ware> commute is killing me
18:43 <@Dolemite> yep, that'd be a rough one
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19:03 < ware> whats meetings@2600.com goto? rofl
19:03 < ware> didnt mean to send that to them as well
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21:17 <@mtown_nerd> o/ Genphlux
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22:12 <@unixfg> Genphlux: We make you jealous with all our IRC talk?
22:42 <@mtown_nerd> He's not jealous.  Not with that new hurr of his.  :P
22:42 <@mtown_nerd> Done gone out and gat his hurr did.
22:42 <@mtown_nerd> So fresh!
22:42 <@mtown_nerd> ^_6
22:42 <@mtown_nerd> er..  ^_^
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 06 00:00:06 2010