--- Log opened Tue Feb 02 00:00:06 2010
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11:27 < nachoguy> ahoy
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13:50 <@Catonic> Where can I find the skypup?
13:52 < Shadow404> in the dog house?
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14:02 <@Catonic> I bet he's off humping your mom.
14:12 < Shadow404> probably
14:13 < Shadow404> shes such a minx
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16:35 < Shadow404> wow, im suprised by how dead this channel has gotten, haha
16:38 <@scort> haha disregard that i suck cocks
16:39 <@Corydon76-dig> Shadow404: what, that the troublemakers have either gone elsewhere or gotten tired of our responses?
16:44 < Shadow404> that was sorta part of the fun of the channel Corydon76-dig
16:44 < Shadow404> at least it was something to watch/comment on
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16:45 <@scort> not everyone likes drama
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16:47 <@Corydon76-dig> Drama is fine, as long as it has a loose escape valve.  Pent up drama is the problem.
16:48 <@Corydon76-dig> We seem to have a lot of people who insist on no drama, which means that it builds up pressure, then explodes... and in the resulting chaos, people are lost from our community
16:52 <@Corydon76-dig> Much rather have a trickle of drama at all times than these periodic explosions
16:53 < Shadow404> agreed
16:53 <@Dagmar> Same here.
16:53 < Shadow404> ive moved toward another social group (hackerspace) for my irc and hacker fun
16:54 <@Dagmar> I could probably go back to working with the MythTV devs if I actually forced some drama, but I just can't be bothered to care enough
16:54 <@Dagmar> I got my ass chewed over a perfectly sensible wiki edit, the admin responsible has just gone nuts, apparently no one else wants to challenge him on it, so screw it
16:55 <@Corydon76-dig> Wow
16:55 <@Dagmar> I just stuck a bit on my user's discussion page saying I'm just not writing any more damn documentation for them
16:55 < ware> DRAMA!?
16:55 <@Dagmar> Someone should probably address whatever the hell is eating at iamlindoro, but I just don't have the time to beat him over the head with "WHAT'S EATING YOU, MATE" until he listens
16:56 < ware> this chan is dead cause all the cool ppl quit talkin in here
16:56 < ware> now its just the idlers and i dont give a fuckers
16:56 <@Corydon76-dig> ware: heh
16:56 <@Corydon76-dig> ware: which one are you?
16:56 <@Dagmar> I'm pretty sure he decided I was trying to stifle discussion of bypassing HDCP using the HD Fury devices, but personally I could give two shits if people bypass HDCP
16:56 < ware> surprisingly all 3!
16:57 <@Dagmar> I just don't think the primary location for information about doing it should be on the page for the HD-PVR
16:57 <@Dagmar> It's bad info organization
16:58 <@Dagmar> Actually, personally I think people should kick HDCP in the nuts and just refuse to buy devices that won't output analog component output
16:58 <@Dagmar> This media cartel shit won't go away until enough people vote with their wallets
16:59 <@Corydon76-dig> Why analog, instead of unprotected digital?
16:59 <@Corydon76-dig> or just ignore the HDCP bits?
16:59 <@Dagmar> Kinda pisses me off since at the time he jumped my ass I had a set of follow-up edits I was about to drop in, including a template for transclusion warning people "Doing this may fall afoul of the law if you are in {{1}}"
17:00 < tzanger> I prefer unprotected digital myself
17:00 <@Dagmar> Well the HD Fury does that.  It just does the handshake for HDCP and sends the unprotected signal out
17:00 <@Dagmar> The HD Fury2 does the same thing, but has analog component outputs on the other end
17:00 <@Corydon76-dig> I mean, the whole point of MythTV is the ability to ignore the media cartel's idiot bits
17:00 < tzanger> Dagmar: doesn't that fuck up the receiving side who's expecting encrypted data?
17:01 <@Dagmar> A bunch of people in the UK have gotten screwed since they got freeview boxes that originally would do analog component output, but now won't
17:01 < tzanger> (i.e. trying to decrypted data that isn't actually a valid cipherstream?
17:01 < tzanger> er trying to decrypt data
17:01 <@Dagmar> A firmware update disabled it, and it was apparently supposed to be HDCP-only for most stuff all along
17:02 <@Dagmar> tzanger: Being that a) to my knowledge HDCP isn't encryption--just a handshake, and b) there are no devices that will refuse to accept "plain HDMI"
17:02 <@Dagmar> For all the looking I did, I could find no documentation that the UK has a DMCA-like law that makes bypassing it illegal there
17:02 < tzanger> Dagmar: I'm not an HDCP expert, but if the actual 4 LVDS lines aren't transmitting ciphertext, then how would a handshake prevent data transfer?
17:03 < tzanger> Dagmar: I mean hook up compliant receiver, then "tee" the LVDS lines into another receiver
17:03 <@Dagmar> tzanger: As far as I know HDCP involves the playback unit communicating with the display device to make sure it's HDCP-compliant and that's about it
17:04 < tzanger> Dagmar: wow if that's true that is *fucking* ridiculous
17:04 <@Dagmar> The transmitting device will simply not send video if the recieveing device isn't compliant, and HDCP is required
17:04 <@Dagmar> So the HD Fury can just handle the handshake and be done with it.  HDCP defeated.
17:05 <@Corydon76-dig> See, now, THIS is the kind of discussion that I joined for.
17:05 < tzanger> I mean if that's the case ... wow. really dumb.
17:05 <@Dagmar> Now if we had totally reliable support for hte Blackmagic Intensity dual-port HDMI "tuner", people wouldn't have to buy an HD Fury2 and an HD PVR just to time-shift their digital shit without renting a PVR from the cable company
17:06 <@Dagmar> That's $500+ worth of kit versus $250 right there
17:06 < tzanger> actually I want OTA specifically because I can't trust my cable co to give me an unencumbered signal that I can hit with firewire
17:06 <@Dagmar> If Comcast dares turn off component analog out, I'll just tell them to take their fucking box back
17:06 <@Corydon76-dig> This is why I've never switched from analog cable
17:07 < tzanger> I don't think that HDCP is unencrypted content
17:07 <@Dagmar> I will fucking go buy a goddamn QAM card and go talk to the SoftCAM people about what needs to be done to decrypt the shit I'm paying for, in software
17:07 < tzanger> wikipedia says the content's encrypted at any rate
17:07 < tzanger> #2 in the specification
17:07 < tzanger> Dagmar: I was using a softcam with linux and mythtv for a long time
17:07 <@Dagmar> Either way, both the HD Fury and the HD FUry2 defeat it completely
17:07 < tzanger> nagra3 kind of put a stop to that for now
17:08 <@Dagmar> tzanger: I'm just pissed that the simplest route to doing something I've been able to do legally for well, as long as I've existed...
17:08 <@Dagmar> ...involves shelling out anothe $250
17:08 < tzanger> I agree
17:08 <@Dagmar> ....although the HD PVR's output is hella nice.
17:09 < tzanger> I would be *happy* to pay for a CAM that I can plug into my own fucking recevier (or computer) and get what I pay for
17:09 < tzanger> cablecard would be a great thing if it were an open standard
17:09 < tzanger> fuck rogers, fuck bell, fuck dish, fuck all the cable providers
17:09 <@Dagmar> Yeah but unfortunately it's a media cartel enforcement technology in it's current form
17:09 < tzanger> there are already enough laws out there to prevent me from redistributing what I have
17:09 < tzanger> you don't need new "digital" laws and protection devices
17:09 <@Dagmar> Yeah this isn't about preventing redistribution
17:09 < tzanger> if I put what I get off cable up on a torrent, then throw the book at me
17:10 < tzanger> but this shit is idiotic
17:10 <@Dagmar> This is about generating new revenue streams by making the technology incompatible with PVRs through technical measures protected by patents
17:11 <@Dagmar> The people who are into redistribution have no problems at all spending $250 on an HD PVR or HD Fury
17:11 < tzanger> reselling what they already sold is not a valid revenue stream ... or at least it should be every bit as illegal as me redistributing the stream I paid for
17:11 <@Dagmar> I think so too
17:11 <@Dagmar> ...but since We The Consumers aren't paying any lobbyists to write sneaky legislation for us, we get fucked
17:12 < tzanger> yeah
17:12 < tzanger> that ACTA is another piece of legislation that should be considered treasonous
17:12 <@Dagmar> I'd not really have a problem with Comcast getting a waiver for conditional access to the analog port, if I thought they'd actually only enable that on their PPV channel
17:13 <@Dagmar> tzanger: I have a simpler solution.  I IGNORE any law I'm not allowed to see or comment on during it's construction, on the basis of it being unconstitutional
17:13 < tzanger> Dagmar: that works great until you're being arrested under it
17:14 <@Dagmar> I'm pretty sure that any such prosecution will have a very hard time getting a judge to believe that, say, your bail should be more than a nickel
17:14 < tzanger> I would not be so sure
17:14 < tzanger> I do not have faith in the system
17:14 <@Dagmar> I would.
17:14 <@Dagmar> There's guidlines that define what bail is for and when it's necessary.
17:15 <@Dagmar> Being arrested because you recorded a normal broadcast program off cable that wasn't PPV or anything like that fails on every count
17:15 <@Dagmar> It would be hard to say the person is a flight risk, the prosecution isn't being harmed by the accused roaming around free, and clearly you're not a threat to the general populace.
17:16 < tzanger> I agree with you on grounds of common sense
17:16 < tzanger> but again, I don't trust not being railroaded
17:16 <@Dagmar> That and there's about a thousand lawyers out there who would love to have a piece of that action
17:17 <@Dagmar> ...up to and including the issue of unconstitutionality of "secret" laws
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22:25 <@sdodson> http://www.theluxuryspot.com/2010/01/30/so-your-boyfriend-likes-video-games/
22:26 <@sdodson> http://i.imgur.com/DR2Df.jpg
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--- Log closed Wed Feb 03 00:00:06 2010