--- Log opened Wed Jun 17 00:00:11 2009
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02:08 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig?  http://www.textsfromlastnight.com/view/48355
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06:24 <@polerin> dasunt: heh
06:25 <@polerin> "i'm coming over"
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07:20 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
07:30 <@polerin> mernin
07:30 <@polerin> hah, someone just got pulled over
07:30 <@polerin> or not, foo.  I was hoping it was one of the people who do 60 on the road here
07:46 <@Shadow404> mawning and word to your motherboard!
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08:24  * polerin stabs postfix in the face
08:26 -!- mode/#se2600 [-m] by Corydon76-dig
08:39 <+fall0ut> battery is dead?
08:40 <+fall0ut> wrong window
08:56 <@polerin> damnit.  Apparently I got postfix working just before I decided to dpkg --purge it
08:56 <@polerin> FHFLSN.  I hate email.
08:58 <+fall0ut> I haven't touched postfix in years
08:58 <+fall0ut> I used to be really good with it
09:00 <@polerin> I never bothered really, I'm not really a server admin.
09:01 <@polerin> if it works for the simple shit I do (using php to send mail from my testbed) without being a huge hole, then I'm happy.
09:01 <+fall0ut> me neither
09:01 <+fall0ut> (a server admin)
09:01 <+fall0ut> nor a developer
09:01 <+fall0ut> I suck at coding
09:05 <@TheLightcosine> polerin: sue exim it's hella easy
09:06 <@TheLightcosine> *use
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09:28 <@polerin> TheLightcosine: I might in a minute
09:29 <@polerin> I'd rather figure out what I'm doing wrong before I move off to another package
09:29 <@polerin> at least this way I'll know for future reference if I have to deal with it
09:29 <@polerin> because we occasionally have to help troubleshoot client setups
09:41 <@TheLightcosine> postfix is a bitch
09:43  * TheLightcosine is reading a book on SDL for work atm  and postfix is one system it mentions in a lsit of system that have bugs dating over 5 years
10:00 <@sdodson> SDL?
10:00 <@sdodson> WHAT DO SDL MEANS?!
10:01 <@sdodson> software development lifecycle?
10:01 <@sdodson> I should think more type less
10:01 <@sdodson> but oh well
10:01 <+Thrynn> or Simple DirectMedia Layer
10:03 <+Thrynn> or Security Development Lifecycle
10:03 <@Shadow404> stupid dumb links?
10:03 <@sdodson> Shadow404's dumb links
10:03 <@Shadow404> haha
10:03 <+Thrynn> Shadow Doesn't Listen
10:03 <@sdodson> Thrynn: how goes it? you in georgia still?
10:03  * sdodson forgets where
10:03 <+Thrynn> yep
10:04 <@Shadow404> sdodson die lying
10:04 <@Shadow404> sdodson die loudly
10:15 <@Corydon76-dig> Shadow Diddled Lasciviously
10:15 <@Shadow404> hah
10:17 <@polerin> stupid distibution layer
10:31 <@TheLightcosine> sdodson: SDL stand for Security Development Lifecycle
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10:40 <@nachoguy> mr0nin
10:41 <@nachoguy> Scotty Doesn't (L)know
10:41 <@nachoguy> the L is silent
11:19 <@kive> on #se2600? sdl must = so damn leet
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12:15 <@rhia> http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/15/supermarket-generates-piezoelectric-power-in-parking-lot/
12:16 <@sdodson> rhia: halp, my kitty has a busted foot. It's bleeding.
12:16 <@rhia> vet
12:16 <@Dolemite> veterinarian.  Former armed services members won't do much good.
12:17 <@sdodson> yous guyz are good for lulz
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12:17 <@sdodson> especially ShadowHntr
12:19  * ShadowHntr grumbles about people throwing him into the conversation mid-sentence to bewilder him
12:19 <@ShadowHntr> it's too easy already ;)
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12:33 <@polerin> heh
12:34 <@polerin> well if you'd fix your stuff you'd not have to deal with that
12:39 <@m0j0-j0j0> sdodson: apply a clotting agent... if you groom your cat you should have something called "quick stop" that will do the trick
12:40 <+Thrynn> unionized IT workers: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090311_11_0_Thecit474796&allcom=1
12:40 <@rhia> better to find out the cause of the bleeding and get it seen to instead of just stopping the blood trail
12:42 <@m0j0-j0j0> rhia: better not to bleed to death on the way to the vet
12:43 <@tzanger> yeah unionising will solve their problems
12:44 <+Thrynn> it's more awesome that it is city (govt) IT workers doing it
13:04 <@polerin> tzanger: unions will help a bunch of crap, that's for sure
13:04 <@polerin> depending on the problems
13:04 <@polerin> blanket dismissial of unionization is silly
13:04 <+eryc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUkoFr3XBVE&fmt=18
13:11 <@tzanger> polerin: nonsense. in this day and age all unions do is drive up costs and deduct from your pay
13:11 <@tzanger> unions HAD a place
13:11 <@tzanger> workplace laws in practically any civilised nation these days make them obsolete
13:13 <@polerin> tzanger: really?
13:14 <@polerin> tzanger: so, those laws... totally protect walmart workers right?
13:14 <@tzanger> you think the unions will help?
13:14 <@polerin> (yes I know IT isn't walmart.  I'm just talking about your blanket claim)
13:14 <@polerin> do I think they will help walmart's employees?  yes
13:14 <@tzanger> the unions will take their dues and say "that's nice, this is the agreement we have in place. tough luck."
13:15 <@polerin> will they help the IT works in question?  I donno, depends on what their goals ar
13:15 <@tzanger> when the workers decide they want to strike, they'll close down walmart and everyone'll run to another store for a while, and when walmart prices go up to "compensate for increased overhead" the cycle will repeat
13:15 <@tzanger> but specifically what do you think the unions will solve for hte walmart employees?
13:16 <@polerin> except for the evidence to the contrary (look at how roundly the right criticized the UAW for not just bending over for GM)
13:16 <@polerin> blaming the UAW for the collapse of GM, instead of looking at GM's managers and the rising cost of healthcare for everyone
13:16 <@tzanger> yeah GM is a great example of how unions help the common man
13:16 <@polerin> failed product lines aren't a union problem.
13:16 <@tzanger> no, you are right
13:17 <@tzanger> but again, I think the problems at GM also had union roots
13:17 <@polerin> what, healthcare?
13:17 <@tzanger> er sorry, *some* of the problems
13:17 <@polerin> hehe
13:18 <@tzanger> the big three have had their heads collectively up their asses for so long that they have no clue what the market wants. FOrd was marginally less head-up-ass but honestly, they were making shit vehicles for so long that I think they forgot how to make good ones
13:18 <@tzanger> honda/toyota/etc are rightfully eating their lunches
13:18 <@polerin> yeah
13:19 <@polerin> I think a good part of the problem in this country is that we HAVE moved away from the idea of producing our own shit
13:19 <@tzanger> a-fucking-men
13:19 <@polerin> NAFTA/etc and the idea of globalization
13:19 <@tzanger> manufacturing is the heart of industry
13:19 <@polerin> fuck that.
13:19 <@polerin> food too
13:20 <@polerin> the idea that we as a country can't move on without having our own industrial base is crazy
13:20 <@tzanger> we have a harder time growing food up here than most of the US; your growing seasons are much longer
13:20 <@polerin> yeah
13:20 <@polerin> well, I mean the us as a whole
13:20 <@polerin> oh .ca
13:20 <@polerin> fail didn't realize where you were, sorry
13:21 <@polerin> I was specifically talking about the US, though I suspect canada has some of the same issues
13:21 <@polerin> most of the wealthy nations are.
13:21 <@tzanger> we're just a colder, funnier talking version of you I think
13:22 <@polerin> eh, I think there are some other differences, and really, have you heard some of the US accents?
13:23 <@polerin> but yeah, I think we are more similar than we are different
13:24 <@polerin> and I admit, I've got a serious bias towards unionization
13:26 <@polerin> but even putting my politics aside, I think that the lengths that some employers go to in order to union bust is a fair indication that they are afraid of what uionization means for their ability to control the people they employ
13:26 <@tzanger> I haven't seen anything useful come out of a union in my lifetime.
13:26 <@tzanger> I think that what the unions do to get IN to a place is criminal
13:26 <@tzanger> I've lived through two of them and busted them
13:26 <@polerin> even if you look at it from a capitalist standpoint, where a worker is literally selling her bodies and skills for a time period for compensation, you can see a place for unionization there too.
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13:27 <@tzanger> actually it's a free/fair market
13:27 <@tzanger> what does unionization get them?
13:27 <@polerin> because the union is nothing more than a way to even out the power imbalance
13:27 <@tzanger> collective agreement?  what about the poor guy who does NOT want to be in a union, but because 60% of his company signed their cards he is now FORCED to join, or find a new job?
13:27 <@polerin> it's a method of saying "my skills are worth more than you offer, as are these others.  We are offering something else."
13:28 < scud> godaddy hacked se2600.org by parking it for free
13:28 < scud> damn corporations
13:28 <@tzanger> what about the guy who is working hard and has to go on strike at drastically reduced wages because some shithead gets a hair up his ass about something ?
13:28 <@tzanger> polerin: that's called finding a better job
13:28 <@polerin> tzanger: not neccisarily.  If the market won't offer you a better job, you can't get one
13:28 <@tzanger> as I said, unions had a VERY important role...60 years ago?
13:28 <@tzanger> they are not useful these days, not to the common man
13:28 <@polerin> and the buisness owners have the power over it by large extent
13:29 <@polerin> tzanger: I wish comcast had been unionized.  I was worked to the bone for a long time, as were other people.
13:29 <@polerin> they wore people out, then threw them away
13:29 <@tzanger> polerin: if the market won't offer you a better job, then I think that trying to force one by unionizing is ridiculous.  if the market won't support it, then the higher costs of unionized workers will put the company out of business... and who did that benefit? only the union, who was able to collect dues for a while.
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13:30 <@tzanger> polerin: unions don't stop that... you just have a little dream of seniority with a union
13:30 <@polerin> tzanger: why is it rediculous.  the market is supply and demand correct?  The employers have much more power over the supply of jobs than an individual employee does over the demand for them
13:30 <@polerin> tzanger: so the employers can skew the balance in their favor
13:31 <@polerin> forcing it to a lower pay
13:31 <@tzanger> as I said if market X is paying $y/hr for work... (not company X, market X)... you go to 10 companies in the market and you always get $y/hr, so you bring in a union to company A in that market
13:31 <@tzanger> what did you just do? you put company A at a competitive disadvantage.
13:31 <@polerin> corperations manipulate the markets
13:31 <@polerin> so? I don't care about the corperation other than the ability to give a job
13:31 <@tzanger> polerin: to an extent, yes, but I don't think it's quite as linear as you are saying
13:32 <@tzanger> well if you just priced the corp out of the market, you just LOST all the jobs
13:32 <@polerin> the corperation doesn't live and breath.  I'm not saying that unions should kill the companies their members work for, that's stupid
13:32 <@tzanger> so now you have a glut of workers and that drives DOWN wages
13:32 <@polerin> and it's very rare for a union to literally price out of the market
13:32 <@tzanger> unions inevitably kill the companies they work for by artificially increasing overhead "in the name of the worker"
13:33 <@tzanger> take my example
13:33 <@tzanger> market X has corp A B and C
13:33 <@polerin> especially considering the fact that union work tends to be of better quality than low budget undercutters
13:33 <@polerin> tzanger: your example is insufficently detailed
13:33 <@polerin> the fact that you are at a disadvantage does not mean that you are out of the market
13:33 <@tzanger> if they are ALL paying $y/hr, and A becomes unionzed, A will have higher overhead from wages/benefits alone
13:34 <@polerin> and A will also have the ability to attract and keep better workers
13:34 <@tzanger> B and C will become stronger, and all three will continue to try and innovate and compete
13:34 <@tzanger> but A is at a permanent disadvantage
13:34 <@tzanger> polerin: I strongly disagree with that statement
13:34 <@tzanger> I do not know one "better worker" who PREFERs to work in a union
13:34 <@polerin> and yet so many companies survive and thrive with unionized workforces
13:34 <@tzanger> not one
13:34 <@polerin> tzanger: I know many.
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13:34 <@tzanger> polerin: that is because the entire marketplace becomes unionized,s o they are all crippled the same
13:35 <@polerin> anecdotal evidence aside
13:35 <@tzanger> (UAW, teacher's unions, grocer's unions, etc.)
13:35 <@polerin> tzanger: not really.  Look at Tele-com people
13:35 <@polerin> err
13:35 <@tzanger> I think in a fair market unions should have to abide by the same strict rules that the companies have to
13:35 <@polerin> companies
13:35 <@tzanger> and that's just not the case
13:35 <@kive> se2600.org is a godaddy park page now?
13:35 <@polerin> what strict rules is that?
13:35 <@polerin> kive: yeah that's awesome isn't that
13:35 <@kive> polerin: l33t
13:35 <@polerin> tzanger: because to be honest, corps don't have many rules they can't get around
13:36 <@tzanger> actually I have direct experience with this market: my brother works for Bell Canada (networking arm) -- years ago Bell spun off all their linesmen and service workers.. they're unionized.
13:36 <@polerin> tzanger: they have legions of lawers to figure out just HOW they can get around the rules
13:36 <@tzanger> the unit my brotherk works at there (networking) is not unionzed, but there was a call for it and thankfully did not go in
13:36 <@polerin> crap, work calls
13:37 <@tzanger> polerin: that's the theory, yes, but the unions have far greater pull
13:37 <@polerin> tzanger: I think we've both had this argument enough to know how it sorta peeters out ;p
13:37 <@tzanger> and as I was saying (before you go) -- in a FAIR market, as an employee I should be able to choose whether I want to work at company A as a unionized worker, or as a non-union worker.
13:37 <@tzanger> if THAT were the case I'd have a lot less problems with unions
13:37 <@tzanger> but they are infectious
13:37 <@polerin> tzanger: it's called right to work in the us
13:37 <@tzanger> and they MUST be infectious or they lose their power
13:38 <@polerin> and I'm not a fan, but it's nowhere near as bad as it's kissing cousin "at will"
13:38 <@tzanger> polerin: haha yes
13:38 <@polerin> at will is bullshit.
13:38 <@polerin> it's what leads to so much abuse of employees.
13:38 <@polerin> anyhow
13:39 <@polerin> tzanger: my parting comment is that I care far more about the quality of life of workers than I do how exhorbitent the profit margins of the owners/investors are.  In the end, you absolutly have to have a strong working class to buy things, or those profits will dissapear anyway
13:40 <+eryc> in the end, you'll die poor and they'll still have caviar
13:42 <@tzanger> I think there's some injustice in corps where the execs are concerned for sure, all this bailoul kerfluffle has only shown where the cancer is
13:43 <@polerin> the cancer is the system ;)
13:43 <@tzanger> golden parachutes and all that kind of thing... but unions don't fix any of that, unions have their own execs with all the same fun, it's just another layer and another deduction line on your paycheck
13:43 <@polerin> tzanger: I'm not neccisarily a fan of how some of the unions work mind you.
13:43 <@polerin> tzanger: just as I don't completely hate how all corperations operate
13:44 <@tzanger> to be honest, I think SMALL unions aren't bad... but I don't think there are any small ones these days
13:44 <+eryc> corporation is spelled with 3 o's
13:44 <@polerin> yeah sorry, we all know I can't speel
13:44 <+eryc> np
13:45 <+eryc> im just here to help
13:45 <@polerin> hehe
13:45 <@polerin> I'm going to go back to stabbing postfix as soon as this is done.
13:45 <+eryc> awwww but i <3 postfix!
13:45 <@polerin> s/this/this code/
13:46 <@polerin> yeah, but I'm no good at it.  hence stabbing instead of surgical precision ;P
13:46 <@polerin> the fault is mine, not the code's :P
13:46 <+eryc> im updatin mah iphone
13:47 <@polerin> yeah my boss just did too ;p
13:47 <@polerin> i already got 1.5 for my g1 :p
13:51 <@polerin> "Of all the code I've refactored, I love you the best."
13:55 <@polerin> I love it when things work out on the first try.
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14:24 <+eryc> woo i broke the 200 friend mark on facebook
14:24 <@Corydon76-dig> Sounds like a big honor for you
14:24 <+eryc> its a pivotal achievement in my life
14:25  * eryc checks it off the bucket list
14:29 <@kive> eryc: Did you get the "Sacrifice your Facebook Friend" achievement?
14:29 <@kive> (BK ads)
14:30 <+eryc> unfortunately i could not sacrific any because of my previous commitment
14:30  * eryc notes that Corydon has 306 facebook friends
14:32  * eryc also notes that most of them are little boys under 15
14:32 <@Corydon76-dig> AFAIK, there aren't any that are under 18
14:32 <+eryc> haha
14:33 <@polerin> I still like the "Acheivement Unlocked:  Left the house." shirt
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14:40 < ware> hey wuts up
14:41 < ware> lol@me in topic
14:41 < ware> im not even in here!
14:44 < ware> just a lot of noobs with nothing better to talk about~
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14:44 <@Corydon76-dig> TROLLFAIL
14:51 <@polerin> eryc: can I bug you for postfix help in a bit?
14:51 <+eryc> ya sure
14:51 <@polerin> noice.  thanks.
14:58 <@polerin> crap, nm coworker needs me for something else
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15:38 <@m0j0-j0j0> I just listened to a bunch of old hens talking about how horrible it was that that kid down in Miami killed all those cats...
15:39 <@m0j0-j0j0> and I realized that I'm really okay with it
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15:40 <@polerin> really?
15:40 <@m0j0-j0j0> I'd way rather have some satisfy his curiosity on 1000 cats than to kill of someones kid
15:41  * polerin doesn't know what to say to that one
15:41 <@polerin> lol
15:41 <@m0j0-j0j0> it's fucked up, but better than it could be
15:41 <@Corydon76-dig> m0j0-j0j0: the problem is that most of the time, people who torture and kill cats move on to killing people.  It's an early indicator of worse behavior to come
15:43 <@m0j0-j0j0> Corydon76-dig: yeah .. the entire serial killer thing...
15:43 <@polerin> I've heard that, but I'm not sure of the percentage of people who move on
15:43 <+coil> mew?
15:43 <@m0j0-j0j0> ... it's just that some people are naturally born killers
15:44 <@polerin> regardless it's still a definite violation of animal cruelity laws, especially considering that he tortured them (I think)
15:44 <@polerin> that's pretty freaking messed up.
15:45 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: true... and I'm not pro animal cruelity.. I'm just glad that he didn't move on to something equally helpless, but more similar to himself.
15:45 <@rhia> m0j0-j0j0: yet
15:46 <@m0j0-j0j0> rhia: every day it gets put off is a plus
15:46 <@rhia> and catching him now may help put it off even longer
15:48 <@m0j0-j0j0> true
15:49 <@m0j0-j0j0> can we get Char to slap the hell out of him and yell "Snap out of it!"
15:49 <@m0j0-j0j0> Cher even
15:50 <@polerin> if that actually worked, Cher would be a natural resource.
15:51 <@polerin> you might even have wars over her, which would be immensely amusing... of course there'd be protesters saing that Cher slaps were cruel and unusual because it alters the basic nature of who the slapee is
15:53 <@m0j0-j0j0> common sense is a natural resource and lots of wars get fought because countries don't have enough of it
15:56 <@polerin> mmph.  Common sense is cultural in nature, but I'll agree to an extent... people get way too caught up and don't stop to look at what is really going on.
16:07 <@kive> wtf is ware?
16:08 <@polerin> heh
16:08 <@polerin> I don't think I'm the best person to answer that question.  I lack... objectivity on that subject.
16:08 <@rhia> kive: resident troll
16:09 <@kive> Any redeeming qualities to him whatsoever? I didn't see any when he dropped in a moment ago.
16:10 <@rhia> i have no idea, only know his actions on irc & the mailing list
16:10 <@kive> Good times. I was afraid that everyone was going to be so serious in here all the time. Glad to know we have ware for sport. ;)
16:14 <@kive> Has anyone gotten in touch with jonnyx to get that domain renewed, btw?
16:14 <@kive> se2600.org, that is?
16:18 <@polerin> kive: I'm not only president of the SRS BSNS club, I'm a member!
16:20 <@m0j0-j0j0> warez is good for douchebag lulz
16:21 <@m0j0-j0j0> he keeps me from taking it too serious
16:21 <@m0j0-j0j0> irritates the fuck out of me (and everyone else) but at least he's good for something (besides masturbation and gang rape jokes)
16:22 <@polerin> meh.  Beyond my personal issues with him, I think he really hurts the ability of this channel to actually have usefull conversation  (I don't mean politics..)
16:22 <@Shadow404> m0j0-j0j0: the reall douchebag is sdodson.is.a.douchebag.snsweather.com
16:22 <@Shadow404> or
16:22 <@polerin> because it becomes just a place for trolling
16:23 <@Shadow404> ware.douche.snsweather.com stil works
16:23 <@polerin> Shadow404: none for me?  :(  I'm hurt
16:23 <+coil> Shadow404 eta on AAAA record coil.snsweather.com
16:23 <@Shadow404> polerin: i dont have anything personally against you .....yet
16:23 <+coil> or whatever mine is
16:23 <@Shadow404> coil.diaf.snsweather.com
16:23 <@polerin> Shadow404:  DUN DUN DUN
16:23 <+coil> i'd like AAAA record setup by tonight Shadow404
16:24  * polerin ties shadow to the railroad tracks and cackles evilly
16:24 <@Shadow404> coil: like and get are 2 diffrent things
16:24 <+coil> point it at 2001:470:5:3a8::28
16:24 <+coil> kthx or ddos comin
16:24 <+coil> asap
16:24 <@Shadow404> haha
16:25 <@Shadow404> you'll just end up block wife from playing wow if you ddos atm
16:25 <@Corydon76-dig> Shadow404: so is there a corydon.sucksmy.snsweather.com yet?
16:25 <+coil> omg its a joke dont be so srs
16:25 <+coil> y so srs
16:25 <@polerin> heh
16:30 <@polerin> is there a maker event anywhere near nashville coming up?
16:31 <@kive> http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p112/kittyblackrose/Y_So_Srs.jpg
16:31 <@kive> Whoever was taking their cat to the vet.. be sure to sneak into the kennel or whatnot and do this to any white cat you see.
16:31 <+coil> ugh my web stopped working
16:31 <+coil> irc works, not anything else
16:32 <@polerin> yere web hmm
16:32 <@polerin> are yoar tewbs clogged?
16:33 <@polerin> kive: serious soft spot for lolcats.  Someone used to use that one on the CS:S server I played on.
16:34 <@dasunt> Woot.
16:34 <@dasunt> I can now only work 40 hours a week.
16:34 <@dasunt> No overtime.
16:34  * dasunt has been told by the Gods up high.
16:35 <@dasunt> This seems to contradict the "if the client is important, don't leave at 5, leave when it is done" rule, and the "oh, so you need to spend 10 hours today driving out to bumfuck nowhere" command.
16:35 <@dasunt> both of which made me work as *gasp* additional 5 hours.
16:35 <@dasunt> Last week.
16:36 <+coil> them paying you less is more important than customer satisfcation
16:36 <@polerin> dasunt: yeah apparently.  I've always interpreted instructions like that as LIFO :P
16:36 <@polerin> "what's that? don't work?  ... if you insist."
16:37 <@dasunt> polerin: That's what I'm doing.
16:37 <@dasunt> LIFO all the way, baby.
16:37 <+coil> lifo?
16:37 <@polerin> last in first out
16:37 <@rhia> same dichotomy when i was at Siemens - Germans don't DO overtime, but at least once a week something would be dropped on me 10 minutes before 5 that simply HAD to be fixed by 8am
16:38 <@rhia> so at least once a week i was explaining to my bosses boss why i had overtime - sigh
16:38 <@polerin> yeah they pull that on me all the time, except it's, "I don't want anyone burning out.  By the way how is that project the client just dropped on us doing?"
16:38 <@dasunt> rhia: Beautiful.
16:38 <@polerin> unfortunatly I don't GET overtime.
16:39 <@dasunt> I get the "well you must do this, this and this, highest priority."  (Next day)  "Drop everything, work on this."
16:39 <@dasunt> And my new favorite:  "The revenue you're bringing in has decreased.  Now go work for 10 hours for this client and charge them 1/3rd the going rate."
16:39 <@dasunt> ORLY?
16:40 <@nachoguy> polerin, I think very few of us get overtime
16:40 <@m0j0-j0j0> I wish I got overtime
16:40 <@polerin> nachoguy: yeah I figured
16:40 <@kive> No overtime for me, either. Last time I got overtime was like 15 years ago.
16:41 <@nachoguy> Sometimes, I really wish I did.  Other times, I figure that "overtime" would become "mandetory"
16:41 <@polerin> dasunt: skilled worker clause.  thank bush (yet again)
16:41 <@m0j0-j0j0> when I was young I remember thinking that being salaried would be the best thing ever
16:41 <@rhia> polerin: they 'fixed' it when they hired me direct - salary
16:41 <@polerin> m0j0-j0j0: eh, I don't mind it, except for the constant pressure to push code out.  I knew I'd have that though.
16:41 <@dasunt> polerin: Yep.  I know that clause.
16:42 <@polerin> m0j0-j0j0: but in ways that's my fault, I managed to burn myself out and I'm not good at handling that yet
16:42 <@polerin> not for this job at least
16:42 <@polerin> I tend to go untill I drop, and working at home has only enabled that
16:42 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: the standard 50 hour work week isn't my favorite and the blurring of my personal and professional life was hard to swallow at one point... but I got past it...
16:42 <@polerin> so I burn myself out, and can't concentrate fully on what I'm doing, which leads to long hours, etc
16:43 <@polerin> yeah
16:43 <@m0j0-j0j0> what really sucks is that part of my job constantly makes everyone hate me
16:43 <@m0j0-j0j0> but that's what I get paid for
16:43 <@dasunt> What's your job?
16:43 <@m0j0-j0j0> dasunt: teamlead/managing developers
16:44 <@polerin> m0j0-j0j0: heh
16:45 <@polerin> I need to really sit and talk with you at some point about requirements gathering and pick your brain
16:45 <@m0j0-j0j0> dasunt: which means I have to stay on peoples ass about working and documenting and fixing stuff all the time.. and then when someone complains about someone else.. I have to file the complaint which makes it look like it's coming from me
16:45 <@polerin> I'm shifting slightly to that so..
16:45 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: we have requirements!?
16:45 <@polerin> heh
16:46 <@polerin> OOOOOOOOooor perhaps not
16:46 <@dasunt> I should be documenting.
16:46 <@dasunt> Doesn't get high priority though, since documentation does not increase the revenue I bring in.
16:46 <@polerin> well, I'm a big fan of self documenting code, but yeah, I make sure I document as well
16:46 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: truth is that we have them, and usually we make them, but my company has a dept that is supposed to do that and just doesn't
16:46 <@dasunt> Admittedly, this means the next person is fucked.
16:47 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: they are sales people so they couldn't even manage getting the user cases right
16:47 <@polerin> and I recently got a taste of how much my code does actually self document vs some peoples
16:47 <@polerin> m0j0-j0j0: do you end up doing it?
16:47 <@polerin> or do you just go off of the trash they give you?
16:48 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: someone always ends up doing it, but it isn't always me... I applied for a position in that dept before I figured out that nobody in it knew what they should be doing
16:49  * polerin nods
16:49 <@polerin> our stuff is sorta crazy
16:50 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: they hired someone else because they thought that a sales guy with no technical expertise, but had a designer suit would be a better fit than someone who knows how to do the job, but usually shops off the rack
16:50 <@polerin> because half of our projects are either from-scratch or complete rewrites of existing applications, or they are "Here is this steaming pile of crap make it work."
16:51 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: I'd say that's the same thing that happens in most shops
16:51 <@polerin> don't doubt it
16:56 <@m0j0-j0j0> The _Big_ boss is in  town this week and has been talking to that dept and asking them just exactly what they are thinking so maybe that is about to get straightened out
16:57 <@polerin> wouldn't that be nice :P
16:58 <@m0j0-j0j0> maybe.. I have to admit that I kind of enjoy having a black hole that I can cast projects that shouldn't have been approved into
16:59 <@polerin> do they control approval as well?
16:59 <@m0j0-j0j0> no
17:00 <@m0j0-j0j0> but once a project gets approved, they should be the ones that generate the specifications for developers to go off of
17:00 <@m0j0-j0j0> so I can assign the project over to them and say "we need a specification for this" and I'll never see the project back again
17:03 <@polerin> yeah
17:03 <@polerin> I was just curious if they were the ones messing up approval as well
17:04 <@m0j0-j0j0> unfortuanantly, that works against me too because when I really really really do need a spec from someone official I can't get that either
17:04 <@m0j0-j0j0> no, the approval process is a rubber stamp thing that corp does
17:04 <@polerin> ew
17:04 <@m0j0-j0j0> basically they check that you've filled out the "expected revenue" field and approve it
17:05 <@polerin> even though we've got some crazy projects, at least it's not pure stupid.
17:06 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: we had a project get approved to set up a community site that would allow people to post comments as their pets..... creepy
17:06 <@m0j0-j0j0> mew
17:06 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: I can't wait until they get me the spec back on that one so I can get my team right on it
17:09  * polerin blinks
17:09 <@polerin> that's...  ..  wow.  that's a little disturbing
17:10 <@polerin> and yet I feel like I'e seen/read something like that recently
17:10 <@m0j0-j0j0> if setting up the furries with a dating site wasn't bad enough... some project got approved which was specifically designed to put older men in touch with younger girls and boys with low IQs... I can't remember what the specifics of the project had been or who thought that this was a good idea, but I've been waiting for the spec on that for a couple of years now
17:10 <@polerin> heh
17:10 <@m0j0-j0j0> we actually set up the milf sites
17:10 <@polerin> oh man, I had one where the "network" which was basicly a member search was set up to display 20 something women that the site administrator had selected as being "hot"
17:11 <@m0j0-j0j0> hahah
17:11 <@polerin> had to really bite my tounge on that one
17:12 <@m0j0-j0j0> one of my guys has a "babe of the day widget" he's trying to sell outside of our company
17:12 <@polerin> heh
17:14 <@m0j0-j0j0> I really don't have an issue with setting up pedophile and furry dating sites, it just doesn't seem to be in line with my company's mission statement
17:14 <@m0j0-j0j0> I'd work for Adam&Eve if they paid well
17:16 <@polerin> eh, adam and eve tends to not market to the creepy
17:17 <@polerin> actually I'd love to work for babeland.  Their attitude is awesome.
17:19 <@m0j0-j0j0> polerin: I don't know who does market to creepy folks... but I could even do that... I don't mind the creepiness of it all... I just don't think that a company who has a mission statement about "high-quality dependable and reputable news and information" should be in the kinky sex site arena
17:19 <@polerin> hehe
17:19 <@polerin> I don't think I could do the creepy
17:19 <@polerin> ut yeah
17:19 <@m0j0-j0j0> how bad could it be
17:20 <@m0j0-j0j0> gaotse
17:20 <@m0j0-j0j0> ?
17:20 <@polerin> m0j0-j0j0: considering my inability to keep my mouth shut?
17:22 <@m0j0-j0j0> you could totally say "I'm sorry sir, but you acknowledged and agreed that The Bull Master 3000 wasn't to be used on any orifice on a human when you completed your purchase"
17:23 <@polerin> Oh I'd definitely not do customer service for them
17:23 <@polerin> I'd not last a day
17:23 <@polerin> I don't mind kinky, it's the creepy I've got an issue with
17:24 <@m0j0-j0j0> I was thinking of the website, but the complaints dept would be ab-sol-ute-ly off the chain
17:25 <@m0j0-j0j0> "I'm sorry sir, The China Boy is neither real china nor is it a real boy.  I'm sorry if that was unclear, but you acknowledged it wasn't china or a boy when you completed your purchase"
17:27 <@m0j0-j0j0> "this hardly seems like something you should be contacting the complaints department about right now.  You should hang up and dial 9-1-1"
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17:31 <@polerin> jej
17:50 <@aestetix> hey, anyone here worked with heartbeat?
17:50 <@aestetix> specifically for rhel4
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18:02 <@sdodson> http://www.flickr.com/photos/afiler/3634406408/
18:02 <@polerin> btw, the disc golf course in smyrna is evil.
18:03 <@polerin> http://stevie.eclexia.net/erin/tmp_img/evil_disc_golf_hole.png
18:03 <@polerin> you can barely see the basket on that one, put red dots at top and bottom, but there's almost no where to throw so you don't have to try to go over the water on your tee shot.
18:06 <@sdodson> WHY CANT I FIND A LIST OF APPLICATIONS AVAILABLE FOR PRE?!
18:08 <@polerin> that is sorta weird
18:10 <@ShadowHntr> polerin: you tried the disc golf course at Barfield Crescent Park in Murfreesboro?
18:10 <@polerin> no, heard about it, but I've not really played that much
18:10 <@sdodson> http://pi.gs/~jason/s.html
18:10 <@polerin> I don't like going by myself, and nobody else ever is in the mood or can get free
18:11 <@polerin> I was actually impressed with the course locally
18:11 <@polerin> it's very very heavily treed, and very challenging
18:12 <@polerin> ShadowHntr: I'd be more than willing to give it a go if you're interested
18:12 <@polerin> I suck pretty hardcore at it though
18:13 <@ShadowHntr> i'd love to, just not right now.
18:13  * polerin nods
18:14 <@polerin> little busy for the next bit anyway.  I somehow managed to develop a life, and its sorta stressful
18:14 <@polerin> used to having plenty of time to just sit and relax
18:16 <@sdodson> oh
18:17 <@polerin> sdodson: found it?
18:17 <@sdodson> found what?
18:17 <@polerin> list of apps for the pre?
18:17 <@sdodson> no
18:17 <@polerin> :P
18:17 <@polerin> unrelated "oh" then I guess
18:17 <@sdodson> i'm listening to some chick talk about git hoping she'll start stripping
18:18 <@polerin> heh
18:18 <@polerin> git kicks some serious ass
18:18 <@sdodson> polerin: view that link i provided
18:18 <@polerin> I'm just starting to really understand parts of it
18:18 <@sdodson> this stuff is live
18:18 <@polerin> ah
18:19 <@polerin> sounds interesting, I'm going to have to find a link to it when it's done if they have it up
18:21 <@polerin> sdodson: thanks for the link.
18:22 <@sdodson> ya it'll probably be online somewhere
18:23 <@polerin> I'm just now comfortable with branching to contain each segment of work
18:23 <@polerin> then cherrypicking commits over into the tracked branch
18:24 <@juice> now to see if the recaptcha mod in phpbb3 stops the spam accounts
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18:39 <@polerin> hey where'd she go :P
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18:40 <@kive> polerin: Google TechEdu has a great video/presentation re: Git
18:41 <@kive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dhZ9BXQgc4
18:42 <@kive> great is apparently a matter of significant opinion on that one. ;)
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18:45 <@Corydon76-dig> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=a62_boqkurbI
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19:08 <@polerin> kive: it's youtube.  Opinions differ over videos of baby's farting. :P
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19:21 <@polerin> kive: you happen to know of any maker events in the southeast anytime soon?
19:36 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: AFAIK, the only maker groups in the southeast are in Huntsville and Nashville
19:36  * polerin nods
19:40 <@sdodson> Not enough nasally sounding guys with webcams elsewhere
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21:30 <@dasunt> I'm impressed.
21:30 <@dasunt> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigfo/3612769236/in/set-72157619517923332/
21:30 <@dasunt> And that bike damn near approaches uselessness.
21:31 <@dasunt> It's like an offroad semi truck.
21:31 <@sdodson> dasunt: for da beach?
21:31 <@dasunt> sdodson: Maybe, but it is set up for cargo.  Thus the long tail.
21:31 <@dasunt> It doesn't make sense.
21:32 <@sdodson> dasunt: Atleast it's not a fixie
21:32 <@sdodson> Is that a Surly? they seem to make a lot of retarded bikes.
21:33 <@sdodson> Ah, ya it is.
21:33 <@sdodson> http://www.surlybikes.com/bd_comp.html
21:33 <@dasunt> sdodson: Fucker:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/tsunad/3392736821/sizes/l/
21:33 <@dasunt> sdodson: Actually, the Pug is a great bike from Surly.  It's just made for shit like riding snowmobile trails.  That's some custom frame job in the picture.
21:34 <@polerin> wow, that IS stupid.  I mean if you're going to be doing stuff that requires that kind of tire, wouldn't you need some shock absorbtion?
21:34 <@dasunt> polerin: Not really.
21:34 <@dasunt> Hell, you're in a soft surface at that point, and those tires are huge.  They are shock absorbers in their own right.
21:35 <@polerin> mm
21:35 <@dasunt> I think they can get down to something like 15 psi.
21:35 <@polerin> I was thinking harder trail stuff,
21:35 <@polerin> but yeah, I'm wrong about that I think XD
21:35 <@dasunt> Yah, the tires are huge on the pug.  It's insane.
21:36 <@sdodson> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdodson/3626217791/
21:36 <@polerin> I'm still confused as to the purpose...  seems like you'd have a really high ammount of drag from the tires
21:36 <@polerin> makes me tired just looking at it
21:36 <@dasunt> polerin: There is.  But the tires are wide enough that they float over most soft surfaces.
21:37 <@polerin> I guess I don't have enough soft surface around here to make it worthwhile to me
21:37 <@sdodson> like tits?
21:37 <@polerin> oh hah hah :P
21:37 <@polerin> heh
21:37 <@sdodson> that was bad timing
21:37 <@dasunt> The pug would be a great bike to do the Arrowhead 1xx on.
21:37 <@polerin> dasunt: I used to bike home ~10 miles from school in downtown nashville
21:37 <@polerin> sdodson: yeah it was
21:37 <@dasunt> That's a 100+ mile route in winter through Minnesota's north country.
21:37 <@polerin> sdodson: amusing none-the-less however
21:38 <@dasunt> polerin: I've lived in TN.  It isn't bike friendly.
21:38 <@polerin> trust me I konw
21:38 <@polerin> know
21:38 <@sdodson> dasunt: http://greenway.org/
21:38 <@polerin> it was fun though
21:38 <@polerin> I wish I lived closer to nashville, I'd totally bike everywhere
21:38 <@polerin> I really miss it
21:38 <@dasunt> sdodson: I see your greenway and raise you ours:  http://www.midtowngreenway.org/
21:39 <@polerin> there was a hill by my house I think I got to 30 or so going down, no exertion required
21:39 <@sdodson> does that site render for shit on your computer?
21:39 <@polerin> pita to come back up the other way though
21:39 <@dasunt> sdodson: Aye.
21:39 <@sdodson> sounds like Catonic's 45 degree hill
21:39 <@dasunt> LOL.
21:39 <@dasunt> I am geared for that shit.
21:39 <@polerin> sdodson: I don't think ti was that steep, it's just LONG
21:39 <@sdodson> dasunt: This shit is from Maine to the keys dawg
21:40 <@dasunt> sdodson: I know, but you have to admit, having the equiv of an interstate for a bike trail is fucking awesome in a major metro area.
21:40 <@polerin> dasunt: I wasn't geared for it.  cheap target bike, I ended up beating the hell out of the rims
21:40 <@polerin> I used to hop coming off od driveways
21:40 <@polerin> all the time
21:40 <@polerin> loved it
21:41 <@sdodson> dasunt: ya it's cool
21:41 <@sdodson> I sort of wish I'd stayed where I was before.  I could ride the greenway almost all the way into work.
21:41 <@sdodson> Now I'm closer to work but it's death between me and work.
21:42 <@dasunt> I geared my bike for this hill:  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/Duluth_lake_street_2006.JPG
21:42 <@dasunt> Incidentally, that town gets ice storms.
21:42 <@dasunt> Streets become one way.
21:43 <@sdodson> http://wweek.com/columns/coverstory#35.32
21:44 <@sdodson> dasunt: "down" ?
21:45 <@dasunt> Yes.
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21:45 <@dasunt> It makes it rather a challenge when it snow storms.
21:46 <@dasunt> Not living in Duluth anymore, thank god, but do you know how difficult it is when streets run level and avenues go uphill?
21:46 <@dasunt> "Okay, I need to get home.  It's two blocks uphill.  Let me drive 20 miles out of the way so I can avoid any major grades."
21:46 <@sdodson> No. Raleigh is flat.
21:46 <@sdodson> And I'm fat. I don't do inclines.
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21:47 <@dasunt> I thought you lost a shitton of weight.
21:47 <@dasunt> Oh, and that reminds me, a friend of mine got pissed at me for referring to another friend as "fat", he was.
21:47 <@dasunt> I didn't mean it in a derogatory way either.
21:49 <@polerin> dasunt: http://tinyurl.com/nllmh2  this is the hill near my house.  Not the long one, but I it's one I actually came back up on bike
21:49 <@polerin> I came back an alternate path when I went down the other
21:49 <@dasunt> I have tales about the bitch hills when I ride.
21:49 <@polerin> you'll have to follow it all the way up btw, that first curve doesn't do it justice
21:50 <@dasunt> Went out with another fixed gear rider, who is geared lower than me, and two geared riders.
21:50 <@dasunt> The geared riders (not full time riders) walked up the hills.
21:50 <@dasunt> The other fixie went up the hills.
21:50 <@dasunt> Guess what my dumb ass has to do them?
21:50 <@dasunt> Er, do then?
21:51 <@polerin> heh
21:51 <@polerin> tried to pedal? :P
21:51 <@dasunt> I made it up.
21:51 <@dasunt> After the mountainbiker broke his chain.
21:54 -!- CRasH180 [n=crash180@pdpc/supporter/bronze/CRasH180] has quit ["sleepy time"]
21:56 <@sdodson> Anyone here in New York?
21:56 <@sdodson> http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cas/1225191327.html
21:57 <@dasunt> sdodson: Run away, far away.
22:00 -!- _Falun [n=Richard@24.196.31.53] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:03 <@sdodson> http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cas/1179719647.html  the end of the first paragraph is awesome
22:04 <@sdodson> "Something dirty and quick seems exciting, sure, but I could get drunk in a bar and snag someone with ease, and then wake up the next morning fuzzy on the details of what happened, who this person is or if I even enjoyed myself, and then count the hours til Target opens so I can buy new sheets and a soda-pretzel combo. "
22:04 -!- Falun [n=Richard@24.196.31.53] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:06 <@dasunt> God, I hate politicians.
22:07 <@dasunt> The city in Columbia, Missouri passed a law making it a crime to throw stuff at cyclists.
22:07 <@dasunt> WTF?  That's called assault.  We have laws for that.
22:08 <@sdodson> ya
22:09 <@sdodson> Actually that's battery, but lets not split hairz
22:09 <@dasunt> Really.
22:09 <@dasunt> we don't need laws saying it's unlawful to hit a person wearing a fedora on the first Sunday in October.
22:10 <@sdodson> I only wear mine on the second sunday.
22:10  * dasunt hits sdodson.
22:38 <@dasunt> http://www.hijinksensue.com/comics/2009-06-15-we-got-it-all-on-uhf.jpg
23:00 <@sdodson> "why is hotmail trying to connect to my linode on port 25?" uhhh to deliver mail?
23:00 <@sdodson> smrt twitter people
23:03 < sasquatc4> its twitter, never expect to find any gems of wisdom on that retarded thing
23:04 <@sdodson> it was actually identica but meh
23:04 <@sdodson> what does ! mean in twitterism?
23:05 -!- Cynefrid [n=whee@24-107-98-1.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:07 -!- Cynefrid [n=whee@24-107-98-1.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #se2600
23:07 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Cynefrid] by ChanServ
23:36 -!- Catonic [n=catonic@255-27.9-67.bham.res.rr.com] has joined #se2600
23:36 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Catonic] by ChanServ
23:38 <@Catonic> oh hai
23:39 <@Catonic> i can haz cluu?
23:41 <@Catonic> hello?
23:42  * Catonic thumps the channel
23:43 <@dasunt> http://www.nashvilleistalking.com/2009/06/sen-diane-blacks-r-gallatin-legislative-aid-circulates-racist-email/
23:43 <@dasunt> I'm not surprised.
23:47 <@Catonic> sup dasunt
23:54 <@dasunt> Nothing much.
23:54 <@dasunt> I'm keeping life interesting.
23:55 <@dasunt> How about yourself?
--- Log closed Thu Jun 18 00:00:11 2009