--- Log opened Tue May 26 00:00:01 2009
00:00 <@Evilpig> never ask!  ask for forgiveness later cause that's easier than getting permission in teh first place
00:00 < dasunt> miniMerc: No, no, that's my problem!
00:01 < dasunt> As far as I can figure, I should move in with them after the second date, quit my job, and sleep with their best friend or sister.
00:01 <@Evilpig> that sounds like a decent plan
00:02 <@Evilpig> what if the best friend or sister is a giant fatty?
00:02 < dasunt> I think it's mandatory.
00:03 < dasunt> I think that's why a guy I know doesn't have a date.
00:03 < dasunt> He doesn't try to move in with them on the second date.
00:03 < dasunt> It confuses them.
00:03 <+miniMerc> ...
00:03  * dasunt really didn't realize how redneckish his hometown was until his memorial day weekend visit.
00:04 < dasunt> miniMerc: If you need to move in, that shows you really love them.
00:04 <@Evilpig> went home to a lynching?  (sp?)
00:04 < dasunt> Nah.
00:04 < dasunt> Just caught up with what some people were doing.
00:04 < dasunt> Police records and whatnot.
00:04 <+miniMerc> dasunt: why would you want to move immediately from dating, when you're getting pussy but still have the freedom of living alone, directly to the soul crushing prospect of cohabitation?
00:04 <@Catonic> wow
00:05 <@Catonic> wow wow wow
00:05 <@Catonic> I think I finally found something I've literally been looking for like 25 years.
00:05 < dasunt> miniMerc: Because about half the people in mjy hometown aren't employed.
00:05 <+miniMerc> dasunt: you're right, you are screwing up
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00:05 <@Evilpig> Catonic: your hand has been there the entire time
00:06 <@Catonic> dasunt: Evilpig has a point. Never ask, just do. If she's not warm to that, you're gonna get slapped.
00:06 <@Catonic> or laid.
00:06 <@Catonic> no, don't move in with them and yes, sleep with the friends.
00:07 < dasunt> Ah, cops.
00:07 < dasunt> WTF?
00:07 < dasunt> this is why I can't make a decent criminal.  I'd never think "lets smoke crack and drive!"
00:09 < dasunt> And I'm pretty sure if I got pulled over, I'd be calling for an attorney, and not discussing my crack habit with the cops.
00:10 <@Evilpig> nashville ppl.  24 west and 40 west in the morning around 7am.  good or horror show?
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00:31 <@jb7od> 24 west is suicide.
00:31 <@jb7od> wait
00:31 <@jb7od> from town or not
00:37 <@jb7od> into town is f0x0r3d but the other way is probably okay. same for 40 w. not to mention metro schools is out now
00:37 <@jb7od> ;]
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01:12 <@Catonic> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7amuf8FJDlY&feature=related
01:12 <@Catonic> I have been looking for this film since I was 5 or 7 or something
01:50 < dasunt> In Soviet Russia, things make no sense:  http://englishrussia.com/?p=2449
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07:19 <@m0j0-j0j0> Catonic: what film is it?
07:19 <@m0j0-j0j0> Ice Pirates!
07:25 <@m0j0-j0j0> krull?
07:42 <@rhia> http://www.youaredumb.net/archive/2009/5/25
07:42 <@m0j0-j0j0> media whore newsies are better than toothless prostitutes
07:46 <@Shadow404> word to your motherboard! meow
07:48 <@m0j0-j0j0> rhia: terrorism only works if people are afraid of it
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07:52 <@m0j0-j0j0> if our natural reaction was to go kill whoever caused the act and the 10 people on  their friends and family program using only our bare hands and teeth things would be different
07:52 <@m0j0-j0j0> instead we let our fear control our actions which is exactly what they want
07:54 <@m0j0-j0j0> I had a friend who finished his travel agent test stuff on 9/10/01.  All he ever wanted to be was a travel agent. The following day he decided that insurance adjusting was a good path to go down
07:54 <@m0j0-j0j0> wtf?
07:55 <@m0j0-j0j0> fearfail, friendfail
07:55 <@m0j0-j0j0> and careerfail
07:57 <@m0j0-j0j0> headed to work
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09:06 <@sdodson> what?
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09:27 <@m0j0-j0j0> ubuntu
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09:49 <@m0j0-j0j0> any restful services / RoR gurus out there?
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10:33 <@Evilpig> dolemite: any lunch suggestions over near 2525 west end?
10:37 <@sdodson> Under what circumstances can you not run 32bit apps on 64bit windows?
10:40 <@Evilpig> didn't think there were any. thought only 16 bit apps were out the door
10:42 <@sdodson> "Get the end of life server your datacenter needs today!" **double take** what?
10:45 <@Evilpig> what? buy a swever that is eol?
10:46 <+scribbles> EOL was always awesome at Best Buy
10:46 <+scribbles> $1200 speakers for $100
10:55 <@Corydon76-dig> NotLarry: ping
11:00 <@TheLightcosine> sdodson: the only thing i can think of that doesn't run in virtualisation mode in 64bit is a kernel mode dbugger i saw that was architecture dependant on the cpu
11:01 <@TheLightcosine> which reminds me that i still have to find a decent windows kernel mode debugger
11:06 <@sdodson> ollydebug or whatever doesn't run at that level?
11:14 <@TheLightcosine> haven't checked that one out yet
11:14 <@TheLightcosine> i was looking at rasta ring 0
11:15 <@TheLightcosine> but not running on x64 sux0rs
11:16  * TheLightcosine is going to try teaching himself assembly
11:16 <@TheLightcosine> i predict i'll be tearing my hair out before long
11:23 <@Shadow404> word to your motherboard!
11:23 <@TheLightcosine> you leave my motherboard out of this you sunnuvabitch!
11:28 <@aestetix> Man Sotomayor is ugly.
11:52 <@polerin> aestetix: have you LOOKED at the SCOTUS makeup?
11:53 <@polerin> since when has "pretty" even played into it?
12:26 <@Dagmar> TheLightcosine: Dude, assembly is pretty easy
12:26 <@Dagmar> That's part of it's problem
12:29 <@aestetix> polerin: yeah
12:41 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: heh, assembly is easy?
12:56 <@polerin> and brianfuck isn't an issue either
13:05 < dasunt> Brainfuck!
13:16 <@Catonic> gayest beer name ever: Buffalo Bill's Blossom Cream
13:17 <@Catonic> monkeyfuck?
13:20 < Curbob> I have a baby monitor that's video, it has a receiver to carry around and see the video, how can I grab the 2.4ghz wireless and see it on my PC?
13:21 < Curbob> somehow sniff the wireless for the video?
13:21 <@Catonic> no
13:21 <@Catonic> does not work that way.
13:21 < Curbob> poo :)
13:22 <@Catonic> you can, however, use the monitor to look at other people's security cameras
13:23 <@polerin> well, technically you might be able too
13:24 < Curbob> i need to build another receiver that will push video to pc
13:24 <@polerin> I doubt very highly that they invented a new protocol for it, so if you can find where the video waveform is located in that spectrum you might be able to build something to bring it down to standard cable levels
13:24 <@Catonic> yeah, because the video is FM-NTSC or NTSC and WiFi is CCK or OFDM
13:25 <@Dagmar> The thing doesn't have a plain composite video output?
13:25 <@polerin> Catonic: I was thinking more about shifting the frequency and using a video capture card
13:25 < Curbob> someone has got to have done this before..
13:25 <@Catonic> Curbob: go get one of the 10,000 video capture / tuner cards that are obsolete now.
13:25 <@Dagmar> Other people probably bought cameras with recievers that have a composite video output
13:26 <@polerin> Dagmar: that's no fun!
13:26 < Curbob> it does have av out but I still want to be able to carry around the monitor
13:26 <@Catonic> polerin: yeah, a block-downconverter works if it isn't FMV
13:26 <@Catonic> *FMTV
13:26 <@Dagmar> ffs
13:26 <@polerin> Curbob: then scrounge a second monitor up
13:26 < Curbob> lol
13:26 <@polerin> that's the easy way
13:26 <@Dagmar> So buy a push card, load it up with batteries, and stick the monitor on top
13:26 < Curbob> will the x11 monitors work.. hummm
13:26 <@polerin> x11 is crap
13:27 <@polerin> all kind of intreference problems from everything I've read
13:27 < Curbob> yeh i had a couple back years ago
13:27 <@Dagmar> Or setup a MythTV box and watch the video on your laptop
13:27 < Curbob> gave them away
13:27 <@Dagmar> If you bitch about latency, I will kill you
13:27 < Curbob> my baby's not gonna like a webcam taped to his head!
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13:28 <@polerin> if you're really that interested, i'm pretty sure you could figure out how to convert from the 2.4 down to the 0-4mhz used for component video
13:28 <@polerin> or just build your own
13:28 <@polerin> get a bluetooth USB extender
13:28 <@Catonic> polerin: you need this thing called a "reciever" to go from AM-TV to Baseband NTSC
13:28 <@polerin> whatever, doesn't matter.
13:29 <@polerin> Catonic: ... I'm not an idiot.  I'm talking about building your own.
13:29 <@Catonic> it has exotic parts, like a "sink seperator", which sounds like something I use when I wash dishes
13:29 < Curbob> lol
13:29 <@polerin> since he's not neccisarily wanting to go from the webcam to the computer, just cary it around....
13:29 <+coil> hi ugys
13:29 <@polerin> it's synch yah twit :P
13:30 <@Catonic> Curbob: there are lots of 2.4GHz video recievers on the market
13:30 < Curbob> then i can drive around my neighborhood and watch other cams
13:30 <@Catonic> OPSC
13:30 <@polerin> as he asked in here rather than going to google, I assumed he wanted to do something interesting
13:30 <@polerin> not just do it
13:30 <@Catonic> You down with OPSC? Yeah you know me...
13:30 < Curbob> lol
13:30 <@Catonic> "I'm watchin a hottie momma doing pi-late-es"
13:30 < Curbob> yeh i looked on google, just wanted to see how or what others would do
13:31 < Curbob> woohoo
13:31 <@Catonic> First, I'd cut a hole in a box.
13:31 < Curbob> hahah
13:32 <@Catonic> "How to make a wifi antenna... First, you cut a hole in a box. Then, you cut a slot in that box."
13:40 -!- Corydon76-dig changed the topic of #se2600 to: Thank you to those who paid the highest price, my ebay auction raised more money than I had ever hoped.
13:41 <@rhia> Corydon76-dig: =(
13:41 <@Corydon76-dig> rhia: what, no humor?
13:42 <@rhia> just the original subject matter
13:42 <@rhia> considering, that was a rather cheap shot ~shrug~
13:42 <@Corydon76-dig> It IS the next day
13:43 <@rhia> so, we can forget them for another year?  whew, what a weight off my shoulders
13:43 <@Corydon76-dig> I dunno, I never liked the 'highest price' analogy, because it degrades the human condition into thinking that people can be bought and paid for
13:43 <@rhia> interesting jump in interpretation
13:45 <@Corydon76-dig> If you pay the highest price, what are our wars, just brutal capitalism?
13:45 <@Corydon76-dig> Spend the most lives, get what you want?
13:46 <@rhia> Corydon76-dig: just an fyi, but i will participate in this argument
13:47 <@Corydon76-dig> And then I'm reminded by all the wars fought by the US in the past 25 years, that were pretty much exactly that... capitalist wars.  Wars fought not because we had to or because we were right, but because one or more of our corporations benefitted
13:48 <@Catonic> FELLATIO IS NEVER WRONG!
13:48 <@Catonic> Wait, that's not the right slogan.
13:50 <@Dagmar> I'm officially a WoW bigot now
13:51 <@polerin> ?
13:51 <@Dagmar> I got a warlock all pissy with me because I asked them what they hell they thought they were doing coming to a particular high-end raid and doing ~1300 DPS
13:51 <@Dagmar> I can right click a mob, and let my hunter just plain old shoot at a mob for more htan that
13:52 <@Dagmar> This was for a fight where they needed to be doing about 2000 DPS
13:52 <@Evilpig> Dagmar: wtf?!  I do 1300 and i'm a tank
13:52 <@Dagmar> Id' have been after the raid leader to kick their ass out if low DPS was the problem
13:52 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: Yeah, this is Emalon
13:52 <@Evilpig> I usually do like 1700 I think.  but I'd have to check the raid stats page
13:53 <@Dagmar> I was blasting ~2300 without trying and with all that damn lag I get from having a million buttons
13:54 <@Dagmar> There was one other hunter that came, who was on her alt and kept whining about being on her alt
13:55 <@Dagmar> Considering she wasn't sucking, I'm going to send her an Ice Striker's Cloak tonight when I get home
13:55 <@Dagmar> Half her shit was green and she still did 1800
13:55 <@Dagmar> "Here take this and don't let me hear you whining about being on your alt again"
13:56 <@Evilpig> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hIRRYqxXK6t2EPoJ/details/42/?s=9784&e=10492  <-- try and decipher that mess
13:56 <@Dagmar> That hostname is awesome
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13:57 <@Evilpig> the bad part with being a tank is I am almost never near the person logging and I am rarely on the main target
13:57 <@Dagmar> Since I've never even seen Mimiron I've no idea the aignificance
14:00 <@Evilpig> unfortunately we don't have any of the old logs of naxx up.  but I am pretty sure I regularly do like 1700.  I have to get in bed now since I work at midnight
14:01 <@Dagmar> OKay, see you then
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14:02 <@m0j0-j0j0> toast
14:34 <@polerin> aestetix: actually, I'd not seen a picture of sotomayor, but she's not unattractive
14:34 <@polerin> at all
14:35 <@polerin> still not an issue with her nomination, but I don't see where the "damn she's ugly" came from
14:37 <@aestetix> polerin: when I see her I don't immediately think "wow I wanna hit that shit"
14:37 <@aestetix> Like I did with Sarah Palin :p
14:44 <@Corydon76-dig> aestetix: I generally don't think that with most people over 40
14:46 <@aestetix> Exactly.
14:48 <@aestetix> aww where's Dolemite
14:48 <@aestetix> I need a hug
14:50 <@Dagmar> wtf
14:51 <@Dagmar> Our law code's apparently been changed since I last looked this shit up
14:51 <@Dagmar> Back before 2000 you couldn't really have anything lit up on your vehicle but the headlights nad taillights
14:51 <@Dagmar> Seems like all that's gone now
14:53 <@oddball> Dag, best I could remember, it was cool as long as you didn't use blue or red.
14:54 <@Dagmar> Yeah that's literally all I'm seeing now
14:55 <@Dagmar> It's s shame some asshole would be sure to decide that purple is a combination of both
14:55 <@Dagmar> This other thing I just found sucks tho
14:55 <@Dagmar> 12.32.010 Horns and warning devices
14:55 <@Dagmar> A. Every motor vehicle, when operated upon a highway, shall be equipped with a horn in good working order and capable of emitting sound audible under normal conditions from a distance of not less than two hundred feet, but no horn or other warning device shall emit an unreasonably loud or harsh sound or a whistle. The driver of a motor vehicle shall, when reasonably necessary to insure safe operation, give audible warning with his horn, but shall not o
14:56 <@oddball> (the only time I looked was in '94)
14:56 <@Dagmar> Specifically "no horn or other warning device shall emit an unreasonably loud or harsh sound or a whistle."
14:56 <@Dagmar> Damnit I was looking for an unreasonably loud horn.
14:56 <@Dagmar> Kinda the whole point on a scooter--to use the horn as a sonic weapon
14:57 <@Dagmar> I'mma order me some damn LEDs now
14:57 <@oddball> Well, the definition of "unreasonably loud" is a bit vauge.
14:57 <@Dagmar> Vague or not, when it's my stated goal to have an "unreasonably loud" horn...
14:58 <@oddball> I'd say see if you can't grab the horn out of an 80's era GM car.  That should be laud enough to be heard loud and clear.
15:00 <@sdodson> Everyone needs something to aspire to be when they grow up.
15:01 <@Dagmar> oddball: I was thinking more along the lines of something you'd put on a barge
15:01 <@Dagmar> Whatever won't blow the electrical system
15:03 <@oddball> I've had people damn near jump out of their cars when I've blown the horn in my Fiero.
15:04 <@Dagmar> I want people's sodas to spontaneously flatten
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15:24 <+fall0ut> ZOMG
15:26 <@Dagmar> Meh.  100W should be enough speakers for it
15:31 <@polerin> Dagmar: baby got a 22mhz tone? :P
15:34 <+sung> ZOMFG
15:35 <@Dagmar> I can make an oscillator that['ll do that if I need one, but I don't need one
15:38 <@polerin> Dagmar: Fluke - atom bomb.
15:38 <@Dagmar> huh?
15:38 <@polerin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYL7wd-d9DY
15:38 <@polerin> though that's actually a bad version
15:38 <@polerin> sec
15:39 <@polerin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVNhZ1rNHGs
15:40 <@polerin> I don't genrally go around calling people baby :P
15:40 <@polerin> I happened to be listening to the song when you were talking about loud noises, thought it was amusing
15:43 <@polerin> aaaaaaaand it's a misheard lyric.  Fail.  never mind
15:45 <@Dagmar> Okay, so I was right... it *was* a complete non-sequitir
15:45 <@Dagmar> Trying to decide now whether I want white or UV (purple) LED underlighting
15:46 <@Dagmar> I guess white makes a bit more sense
15:53 <@Dagmar> Damn I'm getting tired of these sites that retardedly hook right-click, like it's going to stop fucking ANYTHING
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15:53 <@m0j0-j0j0> Dagmar: that will stop 90% of the people
15:54 <@m0j0-j0j0> the other 10% you can't really stop
15:54 <@Dagmar> Stop them from doing what tho
15:54 <@Dagmar> It's annoying as shit to the rest of us who right-click to go back
15:54 <@m0j0-j0j0> saving images?
15:54 <@m0j0-j0j0> viewing source
15:54 <@Dagmar> That you only see this on shitty sites should be a warning sign all by itself
15:55 <@m0j0-j0j0> full screen flash
16:00 <@polerin> you right click to go back?
16:00 <@polerin> isn't that what the backspace button is for?
16:00 <@polerin> ;p
16:01 <@polerin> Dagmar: He says "22 mega    ton" and I always heard   "Hz Tone"
16:02 <@ShadowHntr> lol
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16:37 <@Dagmar> Speakers/amp ordered, LED valve covers, ordered (finally)
16:37 <@Dagmar> If someone wants two for their bike, lemme know...  I've got four white ones on the way
16:40 <@sdodson> /part #ghetto
16:46 <@m0j0-j0j0> troll
16:46 <@polerin> Dagmar: wait, that horn is for your bike?
16:46 <@polerin> that's awesome.
16:47 <@polerin> I'd be totally tempted to prank with that
16:52 <@Dagmar> What horn?
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17:01 <@m0j0-j0j0> headed to the gym
17:01 <@m0j0-j0j0> y'all have a good nite
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18:05 <@oddball> There's an interesting chink in my network.  The cat just turned off the UPS that the router is plugged into.
18:13 <@rhia> they're good at stuff like that
18:13 < miniMerc_> there's an asian in your network?
18:16 < miniMerc_> insidious bastards show up everywhere, dont they
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19:44 < miniMerc> fuck seals
20:56 <+AstralSin> nah, they're too slippery
21:18 <@Dagmar> Sweet.  DWG already got the speakers/amp into FedEx's hands so I'll have them on Thursday
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21:19 <+eryc> http://thismight.be/offensive/uploads/2009/05/26/image/261797_two%20guys%20one%20HURF%20DURF.gif
21:27 <@Dagmar> Wow
21:27 <@Dagmar> It's incredible what white trash that Nancy Grace bitch has on her show now
21:28 <+eryc> her mom on the show again?
21:28 <@Dagmar> That dude whose wife and two sons were murdered last month... the one that had spray-painting done on the walls at the crime scene...
21:29 <@Dagmar> They've talked the wife's sister into suing the bereaved husband for wrongful death because he failed to "provide a safe place" for them
21:29 <@Dagmar> So, of course her lawyer is on Nancy Grace
21:29 <@Dagmar> You know, lots of people get shot to death in Atlanta each week--why can't she be one of them?
21:30 <@Dagmar> ...because that's just fucking tasteless.
21:30 <+eryc> i thought marriage was a partnership
21:30 <@Dagmar> The man's wife and kids are brutally murdered, and some bitch wants to SUE him for it now
21:30 <+eryc> i'll provide a safe place when they dont get to settle for 50%
21:30 <@Dagmar> What fucking ambulance chaser talked her into that?
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21:56 <@sdodson> http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/05/26/dell-not-installing-the-latest-ubuntu-on-new-netbooks#because-they-rely-on-out-of-tree-proprietary-drivers-that-neither-dell-nor-canonical-have-spent-five-minutes-pushing-upstream
21:57 < miniMerc> not even my mini 9 came with 8.10
21:58 < miniMerc> also i think guesstimating that it would take 5 minutes is a little out of bounds
21:58 <@brimstone> that driver crap makes me so angry
21:58 < miniMerc> i made this point last time you were crying: it probably takes significant resources, not 5 minutes, to push those updates upstream
21:59 <@brimstone> are the drivers at least provided from dell or canonical in some sort of packaged form?
21:59 < miniMerc> you put a certain value on pushing the updates upstream, as a nerd, and canonical + dell have different priorities like, making money
21:59 < miniMerc> apparently there's a zip somewhere or something
22:00 < miniMerc> sdodson: why dont you do the heavy lifting
22:00 <@sdodson> miniMerc: because i'm a hoser
22:00 < miniMerc> putting out a ISO of your software is a little different than managing and packaging something for mass consumption, like on a retail laptop
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22:00 < miniMerc> i.e. GET YER HEAD OUTTA YER ASS
22:01 <@sdodson> I think Bastian already did it too.
22:01 <@tzanger> miniMerc: actually it's not that different
22:01 < miniMerc> ubuntu can release an ISO of softare with nothing but angry geeks who didnt pay for it anyway getting angry
22:01 < miniMerc> yeah, it is a LOT different
22:01 <@tzanger> miniMerc: you think they are providing windows .exe or .msi installers for the same shit
22:02 <@tzanger> what the FUCK is the difference with their autobuild system making ubuntu 8.10/9.04 debs, Centos .rpms and shit
22:02 < miniMerc> when customers are PAYING for a laptop with ubuntu on it as their sole OS, there's a lot going on other than just releasing an ISO and fixing it after the fact
22:02 <@tzanger> I am following this very problem with ATI
22:02 <@sdodson> miniMerc: I understand that.
22:02 < miniMerc> tzanger: you arent following shit, you're just an angry nerd
22:02 < miniMerc> you have no idea what goes into sending out a laptop people are spending hundreds on
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22:03 <@tzanger> I am teaching several courses here at AMD/ATI and they have a lot of customer support issues because they try to drive the linux driver installer just like a windows .exe
22:03 <@sdodson> lol
22:03 < miniMerc> and the software QA that goes on before that laptop goes out
22:03 < miniMerc> its not the same
22:03 < miniMerc> its
22:03 < miniMerc> not
22:03 < miniMerc> the
22:03 < miniMerc> same
22:03 <@tzanger> miniMerc: you may want to shut up for a minute
22:03 <@sdodson> They're pratically laptops that you can get in a crackerjack box.
22:03 <@tzanger> I am not saying it's the same thing, I'm saying it's not as different as you think
22:03 < miniMerc> sdodson: to me, the mini's price was very high
22:03 <@tzanger> they have to commit significant resources to support on windows
22:03 < miniMerc> sdodson: just because its a useless laptop to you doesnt mean it is for me
22:03 <@tzanger> they have to commit the same kind of resources for the supported distrubtuions
22:03 < miniMerc> or anyone else who shelled out $400 for one
22:04 <@sdodson> miniMerc: Do you disagree that both Dell and Canonical pushing that they're Linux and/or opensource friendly in order to generate a market?
22:04 <@tzanger> but by having this garbage piece of shit .run file to do the install they are AMPLYIFYING their problem
22:04 <@tzanger> hell the fucking .run file will BUILD debs for a dozen platforms
22:04 < miniMerc> tzanger: here's what i hear out of you "waaah waaah linux waaah waah windows waah waah JUSTICE"
22:04 < miniMerc> tzanger: ya, ok
22:04 < miniMerc> let me introduce you to the real world
22:04 <@tzanger> why the fuck go through that trouble, keep it internal, put up a fucking repo and the system is largely automated
22:04 < miniMerc> tzanger, reality
22:04 < miniMerc> reality, tzanger
22:04 <@tzanger> they do the same shit with windows, so what' the difference
22:04 < miniMerc> have a drink and shut the fuck up
22:05 -!- miniMerc was kicked from #se2600 by tzanger [consider this the reality check, idjit]
22:05 <@sdodson> miniMerc: that was a very effective argument, good job.
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22:05 <@tzanger> Now, instead of bitching, LISTEN
22:05 <@tzanger> I am working with these people every day now for two weeks
22:05 < miniMerc> yes, if only linux distros had the OEM support services, QA, and update distribution channels Windows did
22:05 < miniMerc> unfortunately they donyt
22:05 <@tzanger> a business partner is on contract with AMD *writing this shit*
22:05 < miniMerc> and no, fuck you, i aint gotta listen to shit
22:05 <@tzanger> I'm not some random whiner
22:05 < miniMerc> yes you are
22:06 < miniMerc> you have no fucking clue what you're talking about
22:06 < miniMerc> and now im done talking to you since you're a kickhappy fagdouche
22:06 < miniMerc> continue to whine, i wont interrupt you
22:06 <@tzanger> so who is the whiny "wah wah" idiot? you who refuses to listen to others, or me, who is living in reality dealing with the very problem you're saying has no solution?
22:06 <@sdodson> miniMerc: He's explaining that his day job is to develop drivers for this shit and you're telling him that he has no idea what's going on?
22:06 <@tzanger> let's see, does canonical have QA and support services... yep
22:06 <@tzanger> does RHEL? sure
22:07 <@tzanger> you're saying this shit doesn't exist?
22:07 <@tzanger> are you honestly trying to tell me that Windows has a QA division that doesn't rubber-stamp anyone who has paid their dues?
22:07 <@tzanger> how many fucking widnows drivers for modern hardware just work?
22:07 <@tzanger> it's the same fucking thing
22:07 <@Dagmar> The reality is that Microsoft very clearly subsidized the manufacture of the netbooks that have Windows on them
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22:08 <@tzanger> where the big issue is is that these hardware vendors are USED to doing things a certain way
22:08 <@Dagmar> ...whether or not it was illegal will be something for toothless DoJ lawyers to whine about ten years from now
22:08 <@tzanger> they expect Linux to work the same as Windows from an installation and maintenance perspective, and it just doesn't
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22:08 <@Dagmar> Strangely, Linux just effing works
22:08 <@tzanger> Now Mac... there's another interesting situation... it's a hybrid system between windows and linux
22:09 <@Dagmar> ...but for a whole slew of Linux-driven netbooks to disappear and be replaced by Windows-driven netbooks in the space of a month...
22:09 <@Dagmar> That shit is suspicious.
22:09 <@tzanger> the windows model of "installer file here, just run it, don't worry about system maintenance" is much closer to the mac way where you have THE driver and nothing else
22:09 <@tzanger> Dagmar: for sure
22:09 < miniMerc> ya its a conspiracy
22:09 <@sdodson> We, Red Hat, smack down hardware certs all the time. <vendor> BHWAAA BUT I HAZ BIG DEAL RIDING ON THIS <rht> Uhh, sorry, it doesn't pass out test, lets work on getting you drivers that work out of the box. Here we'll even help you get the drivers upstream.
22:09 <@Dagmar> ...and then there's the small matter of Microsoft suddenly crowing that they had X-large-percent of the netbook market--in two weeks
22:10 <@tzanger> by and large, linux does just fucking work. where things get iffy is with oddball binary drivers that are just thin wrappers to try and make the Windows API methods more-or-less map up to the Linux way of doing things
22:10 <@tzanger> it's not perfect, and there are so few people actually on the Linux side of things **in the company** that there just isn't enough manpower to do it right
22:10 <@tzanger> sdodson: that's very much the reality
22:10 <@Dagmar> tzanger: How is this germane to a set of notebooks that aleady had functioning Linux drivers and Linux developers maintaining them?
22:11 <@tzanger> Linux has a fucking fiefdom, but it relies on technical merit to get through rather than who you can pay
22:11 <@Dagmar> These weren't clone PCs where the vendor was worrying about multitudes of crazy-ass PCI cards
22:11 <@tzanger> we spoke about this very thing today, sdodson
22:12 <@tzanger> it's not so much a conspiracy but rather some very clear questions that are being asked, and silence in response
22:12 <@tzanger> AMD, for example, had (two years ago) over 150 Windows driver devs.  How many Linux ones? 3.
22:13 < miniMerc> 150:3 is a highly unrealistic ratio for how many people run windows compared to linux users
22:13 <@tzanger> the directive came from up top that there was a very strong Linux customer base. not just retail, but I'm talking a lot more embedded/mil/medical types
22:13 < miniMerc> so you should be happy
22:13 < miniMerc> dell mini customers are *lucky* linux is supported
22:13 <@tzanger> miniMerc: I am talking video drivers, not AMD the processor company too
22:13 < miniMerc> again, i point you to reality
22:13 < miniMerc> hello reality
22:13 <@tzanger> miniMerc: I think you are very, very much mistaken
22:14 < miniMerc> well, opinions are like assholes
22:14 < miniMerc> everyone's got one
22:14 < miniMerc> you keep cryin'
22:14 <@sdodson> A proprietary model assumes that 100% of the work is done by people on your staff. An open model does not.
22:14 <@tzanger> I think that the amount of userbase for linux compared to windows is far more than 50:1, especially in embedded
22:14 <@sdodson> s/assumes/forces/
22:14 <@tzanger> who's crying? I'm in the building, talking to these people and helping them train staff for this very thing
22:14 <@tzanger> by their request
22:14 <@Dagmar> I think considering how many times Microsoft has gotten backlash from doing things anathema to dual-booting, it's a sure thing
22:14 <@tzanger> so again, reality is ... where?
22:15 <@tzanger> AMD at least is gearing up and pushing far more resources toward linux than they have in the past
22:15 <@Dagmar> Feet-on-the-ground people use the non-toy operating systems
22:15 <@Dagmar> It's generally only managerial-types who insist on having their talking paper clip
22:15 <@tzanger> if I'm lucky, I may get to travel to the far east to perform similar training, albeit through a translator
22:16 <@tzanger> although at ATI HQ here in Markham, I am teaching 26 people in two blocks, and there are 4 non-asians there
22:16 <@tzanger> and 2 of those 4 are Iranian
22:16 <@tzanger> my "instructor evaluation forms" are in both chinese and english
22:16 <@tzanger> red flag linux is an officially supported distribution for ATI
22:17 <@sdodson> china is a weird place
22:17 <@tzanger> with an absolutely HUGE population
22:17 <@sdodson> The country rampant about piracy, but they always want us to ship them a pyhsical box with a cd in it. They don't feel like they own it unless they have a box in hand.
22:18 <@tzanger> remember windows' market dominance has nothing to do with quality of product nor desire to use said product
22:18 <@tzanger> they have marketshare though mindshare gained through illegal business practices and the lack of choice percieved due to said practices
22:19 <@tzanger> I won't say it with absolute certainty, but offhand I cannot think of even a handful of people whom I know who have had the chance to really use linux, osx and windows and *prefer* windows from an OS-only perspective. Lots will choose windows due to the particular application(s) they are focused on, with most of that being office
22:20 <@tzanger> although I have to say, I used the new office this week to print off my fucking slides from the hotel here, and it took me a good number of minutes to figure out how the fuck to do it... these fucking ribbons and shit totally hide everything
22:20 <@tzanger> finally, I realized that the big round office icon in the upper left was actually a button, and roughly equivalent to the file menu
22:21 <@tzanger> the old office was easy to use compared to this new shit
22:21 <@tzanger> and except for graphing and some more esoteric functions, I find OO WAY more straighforward
22:23 < miniMerc> lol
22:24 <@tzanger> lol? that's the reality check you're hoping to instill with your thoughtful and provoking counter-arguments?
22:25 <@tzanger> I mean you write me off as some rabid fanboy but I'm telling you that's not the case. I have worked for 13 years with Linux as my primary operating system. it's not perfect, hell no. but given a choice I choose to work in Linux. I chose Linux for technical reasons, for business reasons and for philosophical reasons
22:25 <@tzanger> it keeps me sane, and when there are problems the come up, I can dig in or hire someone to dig in and solve them
22:25 <@tzanger> that is simply impossible with windows
22:26 <@tzanger> does linux have the same kind of applications? yep. does it have the same ease of use? in some cases better, in a lot of cases not.
22:26 <@tzanger> can I do everything I want to do in a free, supported, open-source OS? damn near
22:26 < miniMerc> you're so cool
22:27 <@tzanger> the two big areas that are the kickers for me are business apps (my wife is in love with quickbooks and simply accounting) and some of my higher end engineering shit
22:27 <@tzanger> miniMerc: ok, well, the night wasn't wasted
22:28 <@tzanger> you've demonstrated that you're a blowhard who, when presented with fact and experience, responds with silence, wilful ignorance, and sarcasm.
22:28 <@tzanger> good night
22:29 < miniMerc> byyyyeeee
22:34 -!- sdodson changed the topic of #se2600 to: <tzanger> [miniMerc] you've demonstrated that you're a blowhard who, when presented with fact and experience, responds with silence, wilful ignorance, and sarcasm.
22:37 <@sdodson> miniMerc: sound fails in F11 :(
22:37 < miniMerc> sdodson: oh?
22:37 < miniMerc> sdodson: pulseaudio or hardware?
22:37 < miniMerc> sdodson: (ive already decided to put F10 on the mini)
22:38 <@sdodson> gstreamer seems royally hosed
22:38 < miniMerc> sdodson: theres also some problem with selinux
22:38 <@sdodson> For some reason everytime I open something it tells me that it needs to install some codec but it's arleady installed.
22:38 < miniMerc> sdodson: people are getting crashes running patch(1)
22:38 <@sdodson> miniMerc: where?
22:38 < miniMerc> even on a non-selinux kernel
22:38 <@sdodson> that doesn't make sense
22:38 < miniMerc> one sec, lemme try to find the bugzilla
22:38 < miniMerc> i know it doesnt
22:38 < miniMerc> but its there anyway
22:38 < miniMerc> 1 sec
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22:40 < miniMerc> sdodson: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=498861
22:40 < miniMerc> sdodson: fuckin weird
22:48 <@Evilpig> Dagmar: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-K4QBTsnce8x7VhIb/details/20/?s=8331&e=8347  goto damage by spell.  
22:48 < miniMerc> lightning bolt!
22:48 < miniMerc> lightning bolt!
22:50 <@Dagmar> Damn I didn't think Sheild Slam could go that high
22:50 <@Evilpig> I didn't realize it could either til I saw it and freaked
22:50 <@Dagmar> Fuck here I was patting myself on the back for getting a 13k Kill Shot off last night
22:58 <@Evilpig> just topped that at 28k.  although the log reported it as 27k
23:00 <@Dagmar> Oh hey, you wouldn't know how a deathknight could mysteriously lose aggro besides being stunned would you?
23:00 <@Dagmar> We've got a new DK tanking in our guild and it's becoming a problem
23:00 <@Dagmar> I *think* he's getting stunned, but I can't seem to catch it in the logs
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--- Log closed Wed May 27 00:00:01 2009