--- Log opened Sat Mar 28 00:00:37 2009
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01:02 < coil> hey ur shit sux
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01:13 < eryc> ur state sux
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02:01 < dasunt_> Dolemite: Heya.
02:01 < dasunt_> Wanna stay around for awhile?
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02:04 <@dasunt> Wow.
02:04 <@dasunt> http://mplsbikelove.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=145598#p145598
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03:29 <@aestetix> um
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06:53 <@M0j0-j0j0> mornin guys
07:27 < sdodson1> hi
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08:28 < sdodson1> (08:05:52 AM) cj: at what height should I consider guying my mast?
08:28 < sdodson1> (08:06:10 AM) cj: is 10' plus the 6' omni too long to support its own weight?
08:28 < sdodson1> Sort of hard not to find humor in that
08:42 <@Shadow404> only if you have the mind of a 3 year old
08:42 < sdodson1> or a 6' cock
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10:21 <@Evilpig> when did youtube add the statistics and data menu to the videos?
10:22 < ware> sdodson_: talkin about a sailboat?
10:43 <@TheLightcosine> mornin
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12:20 < eryc> http://bit.ly/yvkf
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12:28 < eryc> http://bbltwt.com/ixco9
12:29 <@Dagmar> Hey did you notice the javascript change to Slashdot they had in yesterday"
12:29 <@Dagmar> You have to click the "Many more" tab at the bottom to activate it today, but yesterday if you scrolled to the bottom of the page, it would fire up some javascript and pull up more articles so you couldn't scroll past the end of the page
12:30 <@Dagmar> Endless blog scroll.  Nifty stuff.
12:30 <@brimstone> interesting
12:30 <@Dagmar> Yeah, a good thing Slashdot can't exactly be ignored as prior art or that would be a very patentable mechanism
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12:33 < eryc> neat.  ya google reader does that for rss feeds. its nifty
12:38 <@Shadow404> heh, the japaneese are definantly some create people
12:45 <@Shadow404> *creative
12:45 <@Shadow404> and slightly perverted
12:51 < eryc> thanks for that keen insight
13:01 <@rhia> slightly perverted like Dubai is slightly rich
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13:20 <@aestetix> http://www.whywontyouhiremenow.com/index.html
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13:23 < [1NF0]> buh-sted
13:28 <@aestetix> So, on first glance, this guy can't get a job, and yet claims he has good negotiation skills.
13:29 <@aestetix> Because he's going to start a company to displace much larger more established companies.
13:34 -!- sdodson_ is now known as sdodson
13:35 < sdodson> ware: no, an antenna
13:35 < sdodson> ware: want to go sailing?!
15:11 <@Evilpig> sdodson: if you are planning to drown ware you are gonna have to try harder.  promise him bitches and booze on a boat
15:17 <@Shadow404> and make sure you tie some concrete blocks to his ankles this time, i dont want him swimming to shore again
15:49 < sdodson> thanks for the advise guys.
15:49 <@Shadow404> i think you meant "advice"
15:50 < sdodson> well gollllleeeee i sure did you sharp shooter
15:50 < sdodson> Too much communication with our friends in India.
15:56 <@Shadow404> please take kindly correction carefully :)
15:56  * sdodson does the needful
15:56 <@Shadow404> lawl, i hate that line
15:57 < sdodson> Eh, it's just very English.
15:57 < sdodson> It's a bit sad that they're probably using more proper English than we are yet we make fun of it.
15:57 < sdodson> Well, atleast the Queen's English
16:16 <@Evilpig> fuck the queen
16:17 <@Shadow404> dudes shes 80, damn you like'em old
16:21 < sdodson> Ya, the walker gets in the way dude, it's no fun.
16:24 <@Shadow404> its scary, family guy has way to many similarities to real life
16:24 <@Shadow404> at least for me
16:34 <@Evilpig> this is a current job posting....
16:35 <@Evilpig> Performs intermediate level technical troubleshooting tasks on the AS/400, PC and RS/6000 platforms. Maintains procedures and documentation for the AS/400 platform. Locates and replaces equipment malfunctions as required; completes appropriate paperwork for repair. Prints and distributes output from computers; decollates forms and distributes microfiche according to procedure.
16:37 <@Shadow404> haha
16:38 <@Shadow404> iu guess they want to see who replies for jokes
16:38 <@Evilpig> I was like okay someone still uses an as/400 then I got to the microfiche.....
17:01 <@TheLightcosine> there are still lots of as400s out there
17:09 <@Evilpig> there are.  but it's the microfiche....
17:09 <@Evilpig> as/400 is still used in almost every utility company for bill processing
17:10 <@dasunt> New bike.
17:10 <@dasunt> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tsunad/tags/schwinnfixed/
17:10 <@TheLightcosine> heh
17:10 <@TheLightcosine> we still have an entry for microfiche in our Remedy buit it never gets sued as far as i know
17:33 < coil> hey dicks
17:33 < coil> anyone sucked a mean dick today
17:47 < sdodson> Corydon76-dig: is corydon a town?
17:48 < sdodson> dasunt: what are safety levers?
17:48 < sdodson> dasunt: the levers you can get to when your hands are palm down?
17:48 <@dasunt> sdodson: http://image6.usedvancouver.com/YVR8289999.1.jpg
17:49 <@dasunt> The long lever that goes horizontal in that picture.
17:49 < sdodson> ya, a friend of mine called those cheaters.
17:50 < sdodson> We went down a big fucking hill in seattle and I noted that the breaks weren't working all that great and he almost killed me. He laughed and told me not to use the cheaters.
18:01 <@dasunt> That's part of the problem with those levers, they often don't have the right amount of travel.
18:03 < coil> ddddddddddddddddddos comin
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19:41 < eryc> http://deepleap.org/
19:48 < eryc> oya its earth hour
19:51 < eryc> TURN OFF YOUR LIGHTS PEOPLE
19:51 < eryc> I went out today and bought extra 100 watt bulbs and every light in my house is on. I am ceremonially breaking some of those ridiculous pigtail bulbs and sprinkling the dangerous mercury powder in the sewer. I have all four burners on my stove lit and the A/C running with the windows open. Later tonight I am roasting some lemming in honor of every idiot weeper who believes this Global warming BS.
19:54 <@rattle> Regardless of global warming, excessive energy consumption puts the US in a weaker economic position globally.  You are an idiot.
19:55 < eryc> that was a quote
19:55 < eryc> earthhour.org
19:56 <@rattle> Ok, then that guy is an idiot.
19:59 <@rattle> I can report that in downtown Bethesda, no one seems to doing a damn thing for Earth Hour.
20:22 < jeebusroxors> eryc: you're my hero
21:23 <@dasunt> Yep.
21:23 <@dasunt> OTOH, it should be possible to make the US relatively strong energy wise.
21:24 <@dasunt> It would require everyone to collectively get their heads out of their asses, but it should be possible.
21:26 <@rattle> There are lots of ways to get out of the hole..  There is political will to do it now, so it's likely we can make some serious headway in the next 10 years.
21:27 < [1NF0]> One of my colleagues gave a presentation in Australia... in her hotel room, the key card was needed to turn the lights on and opening the door shut all the lights off
21:27 <@rattle> There is alot of talk about government subsidy to build energy transmission lines from areas where wind and solar can be harvested to major population centers..
21:28 <@rattle> Which would create and environment where the private sector has the incentive to build large farms..
21:28 <@rattle> And the technology for that is there...
21:29 < [1NF0]> I can see that happening...
21:29 <@rattle> The PV solar stuff is decades away from being anywhere..  But the heat transfer based systems actually have decent enough efficiency rates to make economic sense..
21:30 <@rattle> They just gotta be BIG.
21:30 <@dasunt> rattle: I doubt it.
21:30 < [1NF0]> I saw some 50' turbine blades on the interstate a couple times... those buggers are huge!
21:30 <@rattle> We can build 80MW farms with great ease, actually.
21:30 < [1NF0]> one truck carrying nothing more than a blade
21:30 <@dasunt> On one hand, you got the environmental movement ranting about whatever, and the other hand, politicians don't want to make hard choices.
21:30 <@rattle> The economics of wind are really a no brainer..  The big problem there is the grid..
21:30 < [1NF0]> on, what appeared to be a specially-built trailer
21:30 < [1NF0]> I hear ya.
21:31 <@dasunt> rattle: Economics of nuclear is a no brainer, it's been politically dead for years.
21:31 <@rattle> The grid isn't prepared to deal with that..  Nothing about the eastern or nw grids is prepared to deal with non-constant load generation.
21:31 < [1NF0]> where the wind is good, the backhaul isn't built
21:31 < [1NF0]> ahh, I didn't think of that, but I see your point
21:31 <@rattle> dasunt: That's what I thought to..  But there are many factors that really jack up the costs, regardless of political will.
21:31 <@dasunt> rattle: There are, but a lot of those costs that are jacked up are because of politics.
21:32 <@rattle> France has gotten it right though..  So it is possible.
21:32 <@dasunt> Heck, look at gasoline engines -- simple fix would be to increase the gas tax by $.10 or so annually for a decade or two.
21:32 <@rattle> At the cost of commerce.
21:33 <@dasunt> rattle: Do it slow enough, it shouldn't be that large of an issue.
21:33 <@dasunt> We'd probably see infrastructure changes though, less over the road, more rail for transportation.
21:33 <@rattle> Slow isn't an option for anything involving energy right now.
21:33 <@dasunt> It's going to be slow regardless, unfortunately.
21:33 <@rattle> Right now, the path of least resistance is leading toward massive build-out of wind infrastructure.
21:34 <@dasunt> Grid infrastructure increases will take time, new plants will take time.
21:34 <@rattle> The big roadblock is the grid..
21:34 <@rattle> dasunt: The grid problem doesn't go away if we build out nuclear.
21:34 <@dasunt> I wonder if Pickett will get some backlash for basically lobbying Washington to dump money into the fields he's heavily invested in.
21:34 <@rattle> Haha.
21:34 <@dasunt> I doubt it.
21:35 <@rattle> http://nationalcleanenergyproject.org/
21:35 <@dasunt> (And I'm not saying he doesn't believe what he's selling.)
21:35 <@rattle> That's something we've been doing at work.
21:35 <@dasunt> rattle: IMO, nuclear makes a great baseload electrical source.  Wind is good for a smaller fraction of power.
21:36 <@rattle> Nothing is going to happen with nuclear in the states until the waste situation and the issues with the already existing plants are taken care of.
21:37 <@rattle> We've got multiple plants which are kept in operation only because it's cheaper than shutting them down.
21:37 <@rattle> And Yucca Mtn is dead.
21:37 <@dasunt> Waste situation is going to take awhile.  Nevada's willing to use the national depository to get more money out of DC.
21:37 <@dasunt> We should take Lovelock's solution to nuclear waste.  :p
21:37 <@rattle> Yucca Mtn is dead.
21:38 <@dasunt> It's a shame.
21:38 <@dasunt> As an idea went, it wasn't half bad.
21:39 <@rattle> How so?
21:40 <@rattle> On-site waste storage has been working fairly well.  Yucca has been a huge hole for money, turns out it's not geologically stable, and it's already filling up with water.
21:40 <@dasunt> True.  But on-site waste storage falls into a NIMBY trap.
21:40 <@rattle> The plants themselves were a NIMBY problem to begin with.
21:40 <@rattle> So I don't follow the logic.
21:41 <@dasunt> I'd like to say that the average citizen has a right to disagree with it (and I do believe it), but it's pretty frustrating that the same individual that won't bat an eye at a coal power plant freaks with a nuclear power plant.
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21:42 <@dasunt> rattle: from a reprocessing perspective, concentrating wastes at one location would make it easier to build a centralized facility.  Not that it would happen anytime soon, but.  :(
21:42 <@dasunt> As for the water, I dunno what was the final design they were going with for the casks.  I'd have to look into that before I could say if it was a danger or not.
21:43 <@rattle> Transportation is a huge problem.
21:43 <@rattle> Not to mention, if anything goes wrong with the central storage facility we're all fucked.
21:43 <@dasunt> What do you mean?
21:44 <@rattle> If you have one small waste site have a major problem.  It's a major problem.  If you have one HUGE waste site have a major problem, it's catastrophic.
21:45 <@dasunt> I don't know hwat you mwean by "major problem".
21:45 <@rattle> Anything that requires re-organization or cleanup of the materials stored at the site.
21:45 <@rattle> This is a pointless argument.  It's expensive.
21:45 <@dasunt> It would be expensive.
21:46 <@dasunt> But the health risks to humanity wouldn't necessarily be large.
21:46 <@rattle> In comparison, turning large swaths of desert into solar collectors and large swaths of farmland into also producing power isn't in comparison.
21:46 <@rattle> And it creates more jobs.
21:46 <@rattle> And it poses less risk.
21:46 <@rattle> And it can be done in a shorter timeframe.
21:46 <@dasunt> rattle: Don't be so sure -- some of the raw materials needed for that stuff isn't friendly.
21:47 <@rattle> I'm not talking about PV.  PV isn't there yet.
21:47 <@dasunt> Just basic metalurgy is often pretty nasty.
21:47 <@rattle> PV is for satellites, calculators, and geek toys.
21:48 <@rattle> And what kinds of metallurgy are used in building heat transfer based solar farms that are not used in grander ways in nuclear power plants?
21:48 <@rattle> Or for that matter, ceramics?
21:49 <@dasunt> rattle: Scale isn't the same.
21:49 <@dasunt> Thermal plants are huge.
21:49 <@dasunt> Nuclear plants aren't as big.
21:49 <@dasunt> A nuclear site might cover a few acres and have an output in the GW range.
21:50 <@rattle> I grew up next to a nuclear power plant.  You have no idea what you are talking about.
21:50 <@rattle> The area the plant effects is fucking gigantic.
21:50 <@dasunt> Which plant?
21:50 <@rattle> The footprint of the plant itself is one thing..  The area effected by it is huge.
21:50 <@rattle> The thermal pollution aspect is gigantic.
21:51 <@rattle> Oyster Creek.
21:52 <@rattle> The security aspect is another matter entirely.
21:52 <@dasunt> SEGS right now is 354 MW at 1,600 acres.  Averages around 75 MW.
21:52 <@dasunt> (That's one of the larger solar plants in the US).
21:53 <@rattle> There are about 10 SEGS plans.  I think the most recent one was built in like 1996.
21:53 <@dasunt> Oyster creek is 800 acres, looks like 619 MW capacity, doesn't give an average.
21:53 <@dasunt> rattle: I was giving the figure for the complex.
21:53 <@rattle> That's because it's down more than it's up.
21:53 <@rattle> bbl..
21:53 <@dasunt> According to the wiki.
21:53 <@dasunt> Nice talking to you rattle.
22:16 <@rattle> Back.
22:17 <@rattle> Nuclear power needs to be made less expensive to be a serious option for anything.
22:18 <@rattle> The reason nuclear never moves forward isn't because there is no political will, it's because there is no reason to generate political will for it.
22:18 <@rattle> It's less expensive to build and operate coal plans, wind farms, solar, etc..  So those options win, in roughly that order.
22:20 <@rattle> The nuclear plants in the US are economic failures.  The companies that own them can't sell them.  No one wants them.  They are not profit centers.
22:20 <@rattle> Many of them are offline more than they are online.
22:20 <@rattle> Many of them have _serious_ operational issues.  Oyster Creek is actually a perfect example.
22:21 <@rattle> Every so often it has a problem with the heat transfer system for the cooling stream, the stream gets to hot, and all of a sudden the whole area smells like dead fish.  It's happened several times.
22:22 <@rattle> Not to mention that it can't run at full load because the drywell has rusted, and there isn't really a way to fix that that doesn't basically consist of rebuilding the entire plant.
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22:32 < jeebusroxors> have you seen that show called "repairing big stuff" or something similar...they replaced one of the turbines on it...it was very impressive
22:32 < jeebusroxors> a few mm tollerances...if that
22:50 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: Corydon is a book by Andre Gide
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23:20 <@dasunt> rattle: Looked at Oyster creek, looks like it averages 80-90% of its production capacity.  not bad.
23:20 <@dasunt> rattle: ISTR that one of the main costs with nuclear is uncertainty in licensing.  Although, if this is the case, coal might be increasing costs due to that as well.
23:20 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: What's that about?  The book, that is.
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 29 00:00:37 2009