--- Log opened Mon Feb 23 00:00:22 2009
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01:12 <@M0j0-j0j0> sdodson: go to bed
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01:30 <@M0j0-j0j0> word to ya mama
01:30 <@M0j0-j0j0> I am outta here for tonight
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03:00 <@aestetix> Interesting.
03:00 <@aestetix> I didn't know Alex Sotirov was from the south.
03:01 <+eryc> You didn't?
03:01 <@aestetix> Nope.
06:08 <@sdodson> aestetix: dumbass
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07:11 < ware> m0rnin be0tches n h0ez!
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07:34 <@I-MOD> oh noes! ware is cheating at IRC!
07:35 <@I-MOD> stealing the phrases and such
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07:52 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
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08:59 <@nachoguy> mr0nin
09:02 <@Dolemite> nachoguy : kegged up the blackberry solstice cider this weekend...
09:03 <@Dolemite> was hoping to eat some spiked blackberries, but they were so concentrated with alcohol plus they pretty much disintegrated when you tried to pick them up that it was near impossible
09:05 < ware> Dolemite: 07:11 <      ware> m0rnin be0tches n h0ez!
09:05 < ware> i win
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09:06 <@nachoguy> Dolemite, when did you put the blackberries in?  from the start?
09:07 <@Dolemite> No, when I went to secondary fermentation 2 weeks ago
09:07 <@Dolemite> You ferment in primary for 6 weeks, then rack to secondary for 2 weeks, then keg/bottle
09:07 <@Dolemite> fruit goes in at the secondary stage
09:07 <@Dolemite> it turned it pink, like some damn white zinfandel!
09:07 <@Dolemite> I'll carbonate it up good and pitch it to the ladies as pink champagne!
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09:09 < ware> m0rning be0tch3s n h03z!
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09:09 < ware> it was different!
09:09 < ware> lolololol good lulz for monday morning
09:16 <@nachoguy> hrm 6 weeks then 2 weeks?  crap  I was just going 8 weeks -> bottle
09:17 <@Dolemite> yeah, putting it into secondary will help clarify it
09:17 <@Dolemite> it gets rid of a lot of the yeast when you rack to secondary, then that allows more of the suspended yeast to drop out over the next 2 weeks before you rack again
09:18 <@nachoguy> hrm, I guess I should do that now (I'm sitting at like 7 weeks now, I think)
09:18 <@Dolemite> yeah, go ahead and rack to secondary for the last week
09:20 < ware> wee cisco training
09:20 < ware> webex++ is ftw
09:20 <@nachoguy> I'm tempted to spice it, but I kind of want to just have a first batch to taste before I got playing with the flavor
09:23 <@Dolemite> In the summer when peaches are at their peak I'm going to make a peach cider
09:31 <@critch> so how pathetic is it for a tech head hunter company to have a major slow down on their website when you upload a resume?
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09:52 <@nachoguy> Critch, you'rea actually thinking of leaving?
10:05  * sdodson shakes his fists at an ibm blade center
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10:09 <@critch> nachoguy: Yes
10:16 <@nachoguy> sdodson, what's wrong with it?
10:20 <@Evilpig> it just needed a good fist shaken at it
10:21 <@Evilpig> it was being an uppity server
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10:59 <@sdodson> nachoguy: the bmc on the blade keeps losing sync
11:01  * ware hands sdodson a waterhose
11:01 <@sdodson> ware: wot fer?
11:07 < ware> hoes it down
11:13  * oddball headdesks
11:14 <@oddball> "Yeah, I left you a voice mail, I need the new version of the software.  I have 2.2.2.0 and in the eamil it says the newest version is 2.2.1.0."
11:15 <@brimstone> if my.version != new.version; bitch()
11:15 <@oddball> "2.2.2.0 is the latest version." "really? because in the email it says..."
11:34 <@nachoguy> oddball, send them to the store to buy network fluid
11:34 <@nachoguy> tell them you're running out and they might not get emails anymroe
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11:43  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
11:49 <@jb7od> tell the colonel to get his men out of there asap, you got me Amigo?
11:49 <@jb7od> wrong chan
11:50 <@aestetix> sweet the ny unemployment site is malfunctioning
11:52 <@rhia> jb7od's refighting the alamo?
12:01 <@brimstone> refighting? who said he ever stopped?
12:02 <@rhia> figured he'd take a break during the off season when the tourist traffic slows down, let them repaint the signs and stuff
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12:10 <@jb7od> rhia: no that was from #farc
12:11 <+eryc> ..
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12:42 <@Dolemite> Jesus in a fucking handbasket, it just gets busier and busier
12:49 < ware> Dolemite: wheres ur be0tches n h0ez?!
12:49 < ware> use thy pimphand
12:49 < ware> swift like
12:50 <@Dolemite> they all keep calling in sick.  I think you gave 'em chlamydia when you saw 'em last week.
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12:57 <@aestetix> Dolemite: wait, I thought the economy sucked...
13:00 <@Dolemite> the economy does suck, but so does your mother
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13:04 <@ShadowHntr> that's what she said
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13:07 <@Catonic> Why does listening to Britney Spears remind me of IRC?
13:07 <@Catonic> Dolemite: y0
13:07 <@Dolemite> y0
13:07 <@Dagmar> Because IRC is full of dumb tramps?
13:08 <@Dolemite> with fake boobs?
13:10 <@Corydon76-dig> flashing their parts?
13:11 <@ShadowHntr> ROFL
13:11 <@ShadowHntr> so *that*'s what i'm missing
13:12 <@Catonic> ShadowHntr: have you met Al Strowger?
13:12 <@ShadowHntr> nope
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13:17 <@aestetix> Catonic: wanna play a game?
13:17 <@aestetix> I say a word, you say the word that immediately comes to mind
13:18 <@Catonic>  hrm.
13:18 <@aestetix> ready?
13:19 < ware> dumb
13:19 <@Catonic> ware
13:19 <@aestetix> first word: vagina
13:20 <@Catonic> your mom
13:20 <@aestetix> sex
13:20 < ware> urmom
13:20 <@Dolemite> Elektra
13:20 < ware> !!! lol
13:20 <@Catonic> mmmm
13:20 <@aestetix> oh man
13:20 < ware> crazy bitch
13:20 < ware> that needs zoloft
13:20 <@Dolemite> that's 2 words, ware
13:20 <@aestetix> masturbation
13:20 <@Dolemite> your mom
13:21 <@Catonic> ware: you're just bitching because you got a double-a battery in your trunks
13:21 <@aestetix> Catonic: is that his nickname for timoguin?
13:21 < ware> no shes hyper adhd stupid in the head
13:21 < ware> and scratched me
13:21 <@Catonic> the woman has taste, can't fault her there.
13:21 <@Dolemite> lol
13:22 <@Catonic> aestetix: ouch
13:22 <@Catonic> next word
13:22 <@aestetix> condom
13:23 <@aestetix> note: your response should not be "bubble gum"
13:23 <@Catonic> gundam
13:23 <@aestetix> next word: alcohol
13:24 <@Catonic> age of consent
13:24 <@aestetix> next word: teenagers
13:24 <@Catonic> worthless
13:24 <@aestetix> next word: classmates
13:26 <@aestetix> ok, that's dead air
13:26 <@aestetix> next word: playground
13:26 <@Catonic> korn
13:27 <@brimstone> anyone know why a box would be receiving arp who-has packets, but not responding to them? no firewall or anything crazy as far as i know on the box
13:27 <@Dagmar> The NIC could be broken
13:28 <@brimstone> it's a virtual machine :/
13:28 <@Dagmar> ...the NIC might be improperly initialized
13:28 <@brimstone> others on the box on in the bridge respond ok
13:28 <@Dagmar> I blame your VM solution
13:28 <@aestetix> ok, I'm expanding this to phrases now
13:28 <@aestetix> next word or phrase: jehovah's witness
13:28 <@Catonic> must die
13:28 <@Dolemite> aestetix : Dagmar claiming to answer the door naked
13:28 <@brimstone> Dagmar: got anything constructive?
13:28 <@Dagmar> That wasn't a "claim" that was reality
13:29 <@Dagmar> brimstone Comparing that VM's config to the others
13:29 <@Dagmar> Usually responding to ARP queries is something handled by the NIC driver
13:29 <@aestetix> next: celibacy
13:29 <@Catonic> Dolemite: not like he was fucking her at the time, looked up and said: "I hope you brought more lube."
13:29 <@Catonic> boredom
13:29 <@Dolemite> aestetix : Catonic
13:30 <@Dagmar> There's only so many times you can tolerate those fuckers knocking on your door at 8 goddamn am sharp on a Saturday
13:30 <@Catonic> Hrm... we don't have JW's around here for some reason...
13:30 <@aestetix> Dagmar: you should rig something up with a sensor so when it hears a door knock, it plays a really loud recording of a woman having an orgasm
13:30 <@timoguin> http://ihoppancakeday.com/
13:30 <@Dagmar> brimstone: Could be the arp daemon has awol...
13:31 <@Dagmar> aestetix; I no longer live at that place, but I hear the adventists STILL give it a wide berth
13:31 <@Dagmar> brimstone: er has gone awol
13:31 <@brimstone> Dagmar: the config looks fine, one interface in the box works great, although it has 2 ips, the eth1 is not responsive
13:31 <@Dagmar> So eth1 is copletely virtual right?  Can you run a sniffer on it to be sure it's seeing hte arp queries?
13:32 <@brimstone> yes, outside and inside the vm i see the arp who-has
13:32 <@brimstone> on the other interface, i don't see the is-ats
13:32 <@Dagmar> ...and I know this is going to sound dumb, but does the who-has actually have the IP that is supposed to be assigned to that interface?
13:32 <@brimstone> yup, one of the first things i checked
13:32 <@Dagmar> On the other interface you *don't* see the response, but it's sending responses?
13:33 <@brimstone> no, it's not sending responses on other interfaces
13:33 <@brimstone> i don't see it sending responses at all, on any interface, for eth1's ip
13:33 <@Dagmar> What OS are you running on the vm
13:33 <@brimstone> host ubuntu, guest debian
13:33 <@Dagmar> effed up
13:33 <@brimstone> using xen for vm stuff
13:34 <@Dagmar> So if you can run a sniffer on that virtual interface from the inside and see the queries coming in, something's buggered in your ubuntu
13:34 <@Dagmar> That's a "period, end of story" situation there
13:34 <@brimstone> yeah, probably :/
13:35 <@Dagmar> There's a little patch I use to keep Linux from responding on "any" interface for the IP of every interface it has
13:35 <@Dagmar> There was always a chance that was in there
13:35 <@Catonic> aestetix; PM me another word
13:35 <@Dagmar> ...but if it's not responding to arp queries on the interface an IP is bound to, something broke
13:36 <@Dagmar> ...because as far as I know that is just handled by the kernel rather than requiring a separate daemon (like some other unices) because it's damn trivial
13:36 <@Dagmar> I don't think the Ubuntu people are mad enough to try to break that functionality out into a daemon
13:36 <@aestetix> next: penis
13:39 <@Dagmar> That's really fucked up
13:40 <@Dagmar> There's got to be a difference between the two interfaces or the VM host is just on fire
13:40 <@brimstone> heh, printer on fire
13:42 <@Dagmar> Something like that
13:44 <@Dagmar> I would love to know what fucking asshole laid down the frawework for C#
13:44 <@Dagmar> ...and are they currently breathing without assistance from machines.
13:44 <@brimstone> Dagmar: how did you get stuck with some C# project?
13:45 <@Dagmar> I play WoW.
13:45 <@Dagmar> There's a theorycrafting tool that's written in C# and it's stuff with respect to the Hunter class is wildly inaccurate
13:45 <@Dagmar> So now I'm learning all about why C# is a shit language
13:45 <@Dagmar> Writing it's no fucking problem.  It's damn near BASIC.
13:46 <@Dagmar> Dealing with the crazy scoping and typing shit is another matter entirely
13:46 <@Dagmar> Someone was being especially vindictive when they came up with the idea of "jagged" arrays.
13:47 <@Dagmar> ...and then named them something special.
13:48 <@Dagmar> They should quit pussyfooting around and call them "ruined syntax arrays"
13:50 <@Catonic> aestetix; potato
14:05 < uSynx> man i want this water injection kit so bad, i dont have the time to set it up right now but its a fucking amazing deal
14:06 < uSynx> http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1600&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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14:39 <@Dagmar> Here's a great example
14:39 <@Dagmar> of WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH the people who made C#
14:40 <@Dagmar> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa288470(VS.71).aspx
14:40 <@Dagmar> Why the fuck would someone deliberately write code like that, let alone use it as an example of anything other than "The hardest fucking way possible to set a variable"
14:41 <@Dagmar> Nevermind that this is your first warning (which actually isnt' a warning since they don't mention it) in these "tutorials" that someone can actually do something so ill-advised as to replace the string declarator with something weird like public override string ToString()
14:43 <@Dagmar> You know, in BASIC they had read-only variables.  They were called "variables you don't fucking write to you knob"
14:44 <@Corydon76-dig> Welcome to your own personal hell
14:45 <@Corydon76-dig> The main problem is that because people think they can, they should
14:45 <@Corydon76-dig> goto exists in C, but serious programmers know that you only use it in VERY rare circumstances
14:47 <@Dagmar> It's no wonder so many MS-oriented coders seem broken
14:47 <@Dagmar> If this is the type of tutorials they learn from, sheesh
14:50 <@aestetix> God.
14:50 <@aestetix> Using goto in C....
14:50 <@Corydon76-dig> aestetix: there are a few places where it's useful... and a few places where I've replaced it with a do { break; } while (0);
14:51 <@rhia> http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/65254/thumbs/s-CARPET-large.jpg   FUZZY!
14:51 <@tzanger> rhia: oh my dear lord
14:51 <@tzanger> wouldn't mind it when it's -20C outside... but can you imagine that in georgia
14:52 <@nachoguy> I heard it was like 45 in Georgia yesterday
14:52 <@rhia> And the green and neon orange go so well together
14:53 <@rhia> tzanger: least bare legs wouldn't melt to the vinyl, just come out looking like a muppet
14:56 <@Dagmar> Jesus that thing is awful
14:56 <@Dagmar> I would just be screaming the entire time
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15:06 <@rattle> Woohoo!  One of the sites I run was just the 2nd link on digg.com.
15:06 <@rattle> It's down to 4 now though.. :(
15:07 <@Dagmar> I suspect if you put the phrase "C# is shit" somewhere on it it's linkability will go up
15:08 <@nachoguy> rattle, you're the posmoking hippy?
15:08 <@nachoguy> eer pot
15:10 <@Dagmar> I am proud to say I know the guy who did this: http://comorbid.deviantart.com/art/Honey-Bunches-of-STFU-113457479
15:10 <@rattle> Apparently..
15:12 <@tzanger> http://www.mixdown.ca/~andrew/dump/stfu.jpg
15:13 <@tzanger> I like that one better
15:13 <@tzanger> actually I should call the girl I asked to make that into a poster-sized artwork for me
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15:54 <@polerin> really dag?
15:54 <@polerin> really?
15:54 <@polerin> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/republicoft/HHrt/~3/7cLdCPJdHjE/
15:55 <@Dagmar> Yes fucking really
15:55 <@Dagmar> You're race-baiting.
15:56 <@Dagmar> You show me a DIRECT SEMANTIC LINK that is something other than "because it's a chimp" that says that's supposed to be the President lying there on the ground shot to death.
15:56 <@Dagmar> Otherwise, you're just fucking race-baiting.  You're going out of your way to decide something is racist so you can get pissed off and feel better about yourself because you found something to condemn.
15:57 <@Dagmar> Warning sign number fucking one should ahve been Al Sharpton being on CNN talking crazy.
15:57 <@polerin> race bating
15:57 <@Dagmar> Yes, race baiting
15:57 <@polerin> when it's been widely refered to in both the liberal and conservative press as "Obama's stimulus package"
15:58 <@Dagmar> Like that Texas council member who went into a tirade because someone referred to his department as a "black hole of beuracracy"
15:58 <@Dagmar> DID HE WRITE IT ALL HIMSELF?
15:58 <@polerin> when the history of portraying black people as less than human is centuries old
15:58 <@Dagmar> So fucking what.  That's a justification for race baiting.
15:58 <@polerin> no
15:58 <@polerin> it's not a justification for shit.
15:58 <@Dagmar> Better get those Curious George books off the shelves.
15:58 <@Dagmar> They're racist as FUCK.
15:58 <@polerin> it's a history of something that's STILL GOING ON
15:59 <@Dagmar> OMG there's a chimpanzee in them, and it even looks like Obama
15:59 <@polerin> http://images.google.com/images?q=obama monkey
15:59 <@polerin> seriously
15:59 <@Dagmar> So fucking waht
15:59 <@Dagmar> A google search does not contain semantic context.  It's just keywords.
15:59 <@polerin> so it's blatently obvious what the intent
15:59 <@Dagmar> No, it's not.
15:59 <@polerin> yeah, obama, monkey.
15:59 <@polerin> the two togeather were used all throughout the campaign
15:59 <@Dagmar> Someone using their head would see that there is no direct correlation
16:00 <@Dagmar> Really?  Obama used a monkey to promote himself?
16:00 <@polerin> no, they were used by his detractors and you know it
16:00 <@polerin> stop being an ass.
16:00 <@Dagmar> So what
16:00 <@polerin> so I'm saying that they have been used in a racist manner througout the campaign to get him into office
16:00 <@Dagmar> If that's your standard, then lets get those Curious George books off the shelves.
16:01 <@polerin> what is so surprising that people would read the cartoon in that manner regardless
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16:01 <@Dagmar> That man is a racist bastard.
16:01 <@Dagmar> Making that monkey work all the time
16:01 <@polerin> Dagmar: strawman
16:01 <@Dagmar> No, it's not a straw man.
16:01 <@polerin> there are better critiques of those books than that anyway
16:01 <@Dagmar> You're declaring that because there's a monkey involved that there's no other interpretation possible than one that is racist.
16:02 <@Dagmar> If you want tolerance and understanding you have to be willing to exercise some yourself, bitch
16:02 <@polerin> no, I'm declaring that becuase there was a monkey involved, and there was a clear link to SOMEONE in the government that was linked tot the stimulus bill
16:02 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: uh, I think your righteous indignation doesn't become you
16:02 <@Dagmar> Corydon76-dig: I really, really dislike race-baiting.
16:02 <@polerin> It can either mean congress (at which point .. really? only one monkey?)
16:02 <@polerin> I'm not FUCKING RACE BATING
16:02 <@polerin> it's fucking racist
16:02 <@polerin> I didn't BAIT
16:02 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: I think the cartoon is that clearly
16:02 <@Dagmar> I suppose anyone who talks abotu the million monkeys typing out Shakespear is the biggest racist ever
16:03 <@polerin> Dagmar: look, you keep disregarding the clear link to obama
16:03 <@polerin> NO he didn't pen it
16:03 <@Dagmar> You have to assume that all chips mean "black people" for that thing to be racist
16:03 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: only if Shakespeare was black
16:03 <@polerin> but he is widely seen as responsible for it
16:03 <@Dagmar> So again, let's get those filthy Curious George books off the shelf
16:03 <@polerin> including by the very same editors that gave that cartoon the fucking go ahead
16:04 <@timoguin> You all suck.
16:04 <@polerin> So if THOSE editors thought it was obama's bill
16:04 <@polerin> How does that NOT make the cartoon about obama?
16:04 <@polerin> seriously?
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16:04 <@Dagmar> They're not writing for the Enquirere
16:05 <@polerin> what the hell does the enquirer have to do whit shit
16:05 <@polerin> with
16:05 <@Dagmar> Because those people are fucking stupid enough to acutally think the President personally pens every bill he likes.
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16:05 <@polerin> Dagmar: You realize that you're agreeing with someone who is now doing a "chimp of the week" feature
16:05 <@Dagmar> Obama didn't write the bill.
16:05 <@polerin> YES
16:05 <@polerin> I know that
16:06 <@polerin> But the same editors that OK'ed the cartoon have refered to it as OBAMA's bill
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16:06 <@polerin> and they blame him for all the flaws in it
16:06 <@polerin> You honestly think senitors actually write their own bills?
16:06 <@polerin> hell no
16:06 <@Dagmar> So why would you assume that the cartoon which cites that the chimp was the author would be Obama
16:06 <@polerin> but are they still refered to by who sponsored them?
16:06 <@polerin> yes
16:07 <@polerin> Because he has been cited as responsible for the bill
16:07 <@polerin> over
16:07 <@polerin> and over
16:07 <@polerin> and over
16:07 <@polerin> and over
16:07 <@Dagmar> ...because we can definitely take the cartoon to mean the two officers believe the chimp wrote that bill.
16:07 <@Dagmar> Being responsible for something and being the author are not the same thing
16:07 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: now you're just being an ass
16:07 <@Dagmar> Hell, even the guy whose post you cite knows better
16:07 <@polerin> Dagmar: knows better than what?
16:08 <@Dagmar> Corydon76-dig: A manager is responsible for the work of the people under him, yet he does not do that work himself.
16:08 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: give it up; you've made your point
16:08 <@Dagmar> "I mean, c.mon. This isn.t about Obama."
16:08 <@polerin> I can't believe dagmar is supporting this
16:08 <@Dagmar> "He didn.t write the stimulus bill."
16:08 <@polerin> it blows my mind
16:08 <@Dagmar> http://tennesseefree.com/2009/02/18/new-york-post-wtf/
16:08 <@Dagmar> YOU cited that article
16:08 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: he's doing it because he's bored.
16:08 <@polerin> I didn't cite serr8d
16:08 <@polerin> and I definatly called him a racist fuckwad
16:09 <@Dagmar> That something like this "blows your mind" when I'm sitting here telling you why I think this is bullshit should be another warning sign that you're not paying attention to facts.
16:09 <@polerin> I'm well aware of facts
16:09 <@polerin> if you actually read through the thread from there, you'll see I don't agree with anything in it
16:10 <@polerin> (in that post)
16:10 <@Dagmar> But you agree with Al Sharpton.
16:10 <@Dagmar> That should also be a big red warning sign
16:11 <@polerin> yes because everything sharpton says is full of shit
16:11 <@polerin> dag, you've been listening to right wing radio too much
16:11 <@Dagmar> So again, show me where the cartoon indicates that Obama wrote the stimulus bill
16:11 <@Dagmar> ..and I mean _wrote_
16:12 <@polerin> You used to actually be able to formulate an argument, now you're repeating points and not listening to anything
16:12 <@Dagmar> ...not just "is behind" or "is in support of" because there's a whole fuckload of people on that list
16:12 <@Dagmar> Bullshit.
16:12 <@polerin> Dagmar: and "is behind" takes on a whole different meaning when you're the president
16:12 <@Dagmar> I'm not so stupid that I don't assume every chimp I see is referring to a black person.
16:12 <@polerin> and it's one of your highest priorities
16:12 <@polerin> I don't either
16:12 <@polerin> in fact
16:13 <@polerin> you'll notice I have pictures of a monkey in my photos directory
16:13 <@polerin> and you know what?  They aren't racist
16:13 <@polerin> because I'm not comparing them to anyone
16:13 <@polerin> or saying anyones like them
16:13 <@Dagmar> Then why should you assume that any depiction of them must necessarily be
16:14 <@polerin> I don't
16:14 <@polerin> never said I did
16:14 <@polerin> I said that when that depiction is linked to a black person, especially a black man, that it IS
16:15 <@Dagmar> Wher'es the link.
16:15 <@polerin> jeesus fuck.... Ok, we'll do it this way
16:15 <@polerin> There's ONE chimp in the cartoon
16:16 <@Dagmar> Obama didn't write the bill.
16:16 <@polerin> Who is the one person who is responsible for writing the bill
16:16 <@polerin> NOBODY
16:16 <@Dagmar> If he were the author of the bill, it would be another matter entirely.
16:16 <@polerin> so obviously it can't be just some schmoe who was typign away in an office
16:16 <@polerin> So
16:16 <@polerin> who is the one person that is widely credited with pushing the bill through
16:17 <@polerin> Political cartoons aren't photographs
16:17 <@polerin> You are intended to take the major symbols in them, and interpret them using current events
16:17 <@polerin> Yes,  Iknew about the monkey
16:17 <@Dagmar> That does not make him the author of the bill.
16:18 <@polerin> there is no "author" of that bill dag
16:18 <@Dagmar> Exactly.
16:18 <@polerin> Who is the One person widely considered most responsible for it then?
16:18 <@Dagmar> Yet you're making a link straight to the monkey just because it suits your interests to get pissed off about it.
16:18 <@polerin> yes
16:18 <@polerin> I SO want to be pissed off
16:18 <@polerin> I live my life to be offended
16:19 <@Dagmar> Note that most of the press has been reasonable about this because there's every indication that the political cartoonist is not the racist fuck you're trying to make him out to be
16:19 <@Dagmar> Rather obviously you do.
16:19 <@polerin> and to think that everyone is crazy evil
16:19 <@polerin> Again
16:19 <@polerin> You aren't answering my question
16:19 <@polerin> Who is the One person widely considered most responsible for it then?
16:19 <@Evilpig> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
16:19 <@Evilpig> argument over I win
16:19 <@Dagmar> The answer to your question is Obama.
16:19 <@Dagmar> So what
16:19 <@polerin> So it is very possible to see author as "responsible"
16:19 <@polerin> very possible
16:20 <@polerin> I know I did immediatly
16:20 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: Clearly you are a giant racist fuck
16:20 <@Evilpig> I know
16:20 <@Dagmar> ...because that's a lot of monkeys
16:20 <@Dagmar> No, it's not, polerin.
16:20 <@polerin> I don't think every depiction of a monkey is racist
16:20 <@Dagmar> An author is responsible, but being responsible doesn't work the other way
16:20 <@Dagmar> Promoting a bill doesn't mean you authored it in any way
16:21 <@polerin> Dagmar: why not, if there's no author, than the person responsible for the bill, for it's general shape and saliant points was obama
16:21 <@Dagmar> No, it wasn't.
16:21 <@polerin> that is about as close as you can get to an author with a bill of that nature
16:21 <@Dagmar> Your argument is circular.
16:21 <@polerin> that's not circular at all
16:21 <@Dagmar> You're just saying "it's racist because it's racist" over and over in different variations
16:21 <@Drag0n`> you should be required to know and understand a bill before you can sponsor it
16:21 <@Dagmar> You have failed to show a link tying the chimp to Obama.
16:21 <@polerin> Dagmar: no I'm not
16:22 <@polerin> Dagmar: If there is no author, than the person most responsible for the shape and salient points of the bill can be considered it's author
16:22 <@Dagmar> ...and again, if this were a threat to the president, you can be sure the Secret Service would have already gotten involved.
16:22 <@Dagmar> No, they're not.
16:22 <@Dagmar> The only people who would think that are stupid people who read the Enquirere
16:22 <@Dagmar> s
16:22 <@polerin> seeing as obama is responsible for that in the house and senate versions, it's very much so
16:22 <@polerin> Yes dag
16:22 <@polerin> insult me some more
16:22 <@Dagmar> I sure as hell know that someone who promotes a bill is not it's author
16:22 <@polerin> say I read trash rags some more
16:22 <@Drag0n`> but dagmar, thats where the MiB get all their intel <g>
16:23 <@polerin> Assume that I don't know what I'm saying, that I haven't considered what I'm talking about, that I haven't heard all your shit before
16:23 <@polerin> Let me ask your question
16:23 <@polerin> err
16:23 <@polerin> ask you a question
16:23 <@polerin> If that were linked clearly to obama, would you consider it racist
16:24 <@Dagmar> Sure, if the thing had put a PotUS badge on his chest, or had been on the white house front lawn it would be racist as fuck
16:24 <@Dagmar> ...but it's not linked clearly to Obama.
16:24 <@Dagmar> ...and you're making another straw man
16:24 <@polerin> that's not a strawman
16:24 <@Dagmar> Yes, it is.
16:24 <@polerin> I was establishing that the image could be racist
16:24 <@polerin> Not that it IS
16:24 <@polerin> but that it could be
16:24 <@Dagmar> You're saying "Here's a theoretical situation in which I am correct because of one material difference which I now supply"
16:24 <@Dagmar> That's a straw man argument.
16:25 <@Dagmar> ...and you're saying because it "could" be racist then it must necessarily BE racist.
16:25 <@polerin> The issue we have is a linguistic and political one.
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16:25 <@Dagmar> So, let's get those damn Curious George children's books off the shelves and into the bonfires where they belong.
16:25 <@polerin> Weither a bill without a singular author can be considered to be authored by the person widely responsible for it
16:26 <@Dagmar> Which is not the case
16:26 <@polerin> Dagmar: you wanna talk about a strawman, keep waving the man in the yellow hat around
16:26 <@Dagmar> Because it's a more relevant argument than yours
16:26 <@polerin> Dagmar: Not only IS it considered, but COULD it be considered
16:26 <@polerin> Dagmar: for many people, that answer was clearly YES
16:26 <@polerin> and not just stupid people
16:26 <@Dagmar> No, I say, not by any sane person.
16:26 <@polerin> people aren't stupid becuase they disagree with you dag
16:26 <@Dagmar> You might as well consider Reader's Digest to be the authors of a lot of books they merely condensed
16:26 <@polerin> you're not stupid because you disagree with me.  You just see it differently
16:27 <@polerin> He didn't condense it
16:27 <@polerin> his administration presented the sponsors on the house and senate side with a bill that thye wanted passed
16:27 <@polerin> the bill then went through the usual meatgrinder that any huge bill does
16:27 <@polerin> and then it got passed
16:28 <@Dagmar> Therefore Obama didn't write it
16:29 <@polerin> whatever dag.  His administration wrote the first draft.  yes there were all kinds of ammendments, but that bill came straight from them
16:29 <@Dagmar> ...and the process started with BUSH.
16:29 <@polerin> I'm done with this, I didn't want to talk any more about it anyway
16:30 <@polerin> Oh I'm sure bush's bill was exactly the one obama pushed
16:30 <@polerin> .. No.  It wasn't
16:30 <@polerin> anyway
16:30 <@polerin> i'm done
16:30 <@polerin> have fun with 99.7
16:30 <@polerin> because rush and them are EXPERTS at racism
16:31 <@Dagmar> Learn the differnce between racism and classism.
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16:32 <@rhia> Dagmar: um, Rush and quite a few of his ilk are pretty demonstrably racist as well
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16:33 <@Dagmar> Any of them do cartoons for the POst?
16:33 <@polerin> I didn't claim they could draw
16:33 <@rhia> Dagmar: i made one specific comment - and will now leave it at that comment
16:33 <@polerin> just that they were experts at racism
16:34 <@polerin> :)
16:34 <@Dagmar> Has anyone interviewed the arist who drew the cartoon and asked for a clarification?
16:34 <@Dagmar> DID HE SAY "YEAH THAT'S A DAMN NIGGER THERE"?
16:34 <@polerin> he made a statement the first day, and why do you insist on yelling?
16:34 <@Dagmar> Race.  Baiting.
16:34 <@Dagmar> Seeing racism where there is none.
16:35 <@Corydon76-dig> Race.  Denying.
16:35 <@polerin> Race Baiting, using racism to draw criticism so that you can attack someone you don't like.  Works both ways
16:35 <@Corydon76-dig> Seeing no racism where a reasonable person would say otherwise
16:35 <@rhia> um, even if he were completely over the top KKK racist, he wouldn't admit to it at his level of work if he wanted to get published in the BIG media ever again - unless he's completely stupid
16:35 <@polerin> Corydon76-dig: I'm not reasonable, and obviously you aren't either
16:36 <@Corydon76-dig> The fact that a large number of people were independently uncomfortable with the racial overtones suggests that while the intention may not have been there, the cartoon was nonetheless racist
16:36 <@Corydon76-dig> Compare the South Park episode on the South Park flag
16:36 <@Dagmar> Ah cartoons are capable of independent thought now then
16:37 <@Dagmar> I guess that would mean astronomers are all racist for calling gravitational singularities "black holes"
16:37 <@Corydon76-dig> It's kind of like arguing that the swastika is not a symbol for anti-Semitism.
16:37 <@polerin> It's a hindu holy symbo.
16:37 <@polerin> l
16:37 <@polerin> DUHHHHhhh
16:37 <@polerin> :P
16:37 <@Dagmar> Fire is hot.  All things which are hot must be fire.
16:38 <@Drag0n`> fire, hot, burn
16:38 <@polerin> swastika's have a mind of their own then?
16:38 <@Dagmar> Chimpbama is racist, therefore all chimpanzees must be racist.
16:38 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: so if you intended to obtain good fortune, you'd tattoo the Hindu symbol for good fortune on your arm, despite it being commonly known as an anti-Semitic symbol?
16:39 <@Dagmar> If I was a fucking Hindu I might well do that
16:39 <@Corydon76-dig> I don't know any Hindus who would do that
16:39 <@Dagmar> ...because the author's intent matters.
16:39 <@polerin> Does it matter if I intend to hurt someone driving drunk?
16:39 <@Corydon76-dig> Mainly because the swastika, whatever its origins, now is commonly known as an anti-Semitic symbol
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16:39 <@Dagmar> Tell that to the indians.
16:40 <@Corydon76-dig> SubAsian continent or native Americans?
16:40 <@Dagmar> Native American and related south american tribes
16:41 <@Dagmar> There's tribes that still consider that four-legged figure a holy symbol and they've done so since before Hitler's grandfather was born
16:41 <@Dagmar> It doesn't make them all Nazi indians.
16:41 <@polerin> ... this has disolved too far into lunacy for me to bother with.  I'll be back later
16:42 <@Dagmar> Because something *might* be racist does not mean that it *must* be racist, period.
16:42 <@Dagmar> You can have your Post cartoon or you can have Curious George.
16:43 <@Dagmar> Holy shit BJ and the Bear was a racist series about owning black people to accompany you on illegal street races
16:44 <@Dagmar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._J._and_the_Bear <-- OMG SO RACIST
16:44 <@Corydon76-dig> Naive
16:45 <@Dagmar> I can show more serious links to than than anyone can that editorial cartoon
16:45 <@Dagmar> He absolutely owned the monkey
16:45 <@Dagmar> The monkey was his servant when it wasn't slacking off.
16:45 <@Dagmar> OMG it was a chimpanzee
16:46 <@Dagmar> The moment you drop the assumption that all representations of monkeys must necessarily refer to black people, the argument begins to crumble.
16:47 < ware> pwnd
16:47 <@Dagmar> The moment you drop the assumption that someone sponsoring a bill is not the same thing as someone authoring a bill, the argument crumbles further.
16:47 <@Dagmar> If the chimp were NOT supposed to be the SOLE author, then there wouldn't be a need to go find another one.
16:47 <@polerin> Dagmar: where the hell did I ever assume that all monkies refer to black people
16:48 <@Corydon76-dig> The moment you stop dropping assumptions, we have a non-racist society
16:48 <@polerin> seriously?
16:48 <@Dagmar> So how does that chimp directly relate to Obama then?
16:48 <@polerin> the moment you stop making strawman arguments you would have to loose
16:48 <@Dagmar> It's because he's black
16:48 <@polerin> jeesus dag we've been over it.
16:48 <@polerin> and over it.
16:48 <@polerin> and over it
16:48 <@polerin> I'm done
16:48 <@Corydon76-dig> Because, of course, words have no meaning
16:49 <@Dagmar> Obama didn't author the stimulus bill.
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16:49 <@Dagmar> Only people who have a crap idea of what goes on in lawmaking would think that.
16:49 <@Dagmar> Doin't expect me to think that because I fucking know better.
16:49 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: or in other words, the majority of citizens
16:49 <@Dagmar> Corydon76-dig: Exactly.  The cops indicate the chimp was the author.  Those are more of those pesky words right there
16:49 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: elitist asshole
16:50 <@Corydon76-dig> But don't assume that's an insult.
16:50 < ware> EMMMMOOOOPPPAAARRRTTTT
16:50 <@Dagmar> Just like people should automatically believe the actors on Match.com commercials are people who the company might hook them up with
16:50 <@Dagmar> ...or that EVERYONE who does commercials actually uses those products.
16:52 <@Dagmar> Fact: Obama did not author the stimulus package.
16:52 <@Dagmar> Fact: The cops in the editorial cartoon believe the chimpanzee they shot *did* author the stimulus package.
16:53 <@Dagmar> Straw Man: Obama authored the stimulus package.
16:53 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: You're able to look into the minds of cartoon policemen and determine belief of fictional characters?
16:53 <@Dagmar> When it's written right there on the page?
16:53 <@Dagmar> It's not hard.
16:54 <@Dagmar> "They'll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill," reads the caption.
16:54 <@Corydon76-dig> What then, do you believe is the humorous value of the cartoon?
16:54 <@Dagmar> That they're saying a monkey wrote it
16:54 <@Dagmar> Not that they're saying Obama is a monkey
16:54 <@Dagmar> Sheesh
16:55 <@Corydon76-dig> So saying that a monkey wrote something is humorous?
16:55 <@Dagmar> For the purposes of ridicule, yes.
16:55 <@Corydon76-dig> Wow, that's deep...
16:55 <@Dagmar> The infinite monkeys ploy has been used time and time again to that end.
16:56 <@Corydon76-dig> But there aren't infinite monkeys in that cartoon, only one.
16:56 <@Dagmar> Anecdotally, chimps using typewriters create infinite amounts of nonsense.
16:56 <@Corydon76-dig> Really?  How many times have you seen an actual chimp using a typewriter?
16:56 <@Dagmar> A couple of times, actually.
16:57 <@Dagmar> There's even one television studio who uses a chimp at a typewriter as their logo segment.
16:57 <@Corydon76-dig> Which one?
16:57 <@Dagmar> OMG they must mean they're hiring black people
16:57 <@Corydon76-dig> A chimp typing or a chimp posed on a chair in front of a typewriter?
16:57 <@Dagmar> OMG more racists http://www.fotosearch.com/clt003/z115/
16:58 <@Corydon76-dig> Because I can pose a cat in front of a typewriter.  Doesn't mean the cat will type anything, though
16:58 <@Dagmar> You'll pardon me if I can't remember the name associated with a five second clip out of all the cheap fiction shows I've watched
16:58 <@Dagmar> That's a fucking Trivial Pursuit question
16:59 <@Corydon76-dig> You'll pardon me if I'm incredulous at you not seeing the author of the stimulus bill being called a chimp offensive
16:59 <@Dagmar> http://www.monkeywithatypewriter.com/
16:59 <@Dagmar> Offensive to be sure.
16:59 <@Dagmar> They're calling a human a chimpanzee.
16:59 <@Dagmar> Racist is another matter entirely.
17:00 <@Corydon76-dig> Clearly, your efforts at programming are little better than that of a chimp at a typewriter
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17:00 <@Corydon76-dig> Glad you don't find that offensive
17:01 <@Dagmar> I don't find it racist
17:01 <@Dagmar> ...and unlike some people, I can tell the difference between the two.
17:01 <@Corydon76-dig> Therefore, since it's not racist, it's not offensive, either.
17:02 <@Dagmar> Oh look, more racism
17:02 <@Dagmar> http://generatorblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/chimp-o-matic-george-bush-quote.html
17:02 <@Dagmar> Nevermind that George Bush is there, there's a chimpanzee!  It's racists!
17:03 <@Dagmar> Corydon76-dig: I'll make sure to have that "Therefore, since it's not racist, it's not offensive, either." all printed out and ready to go for Phreaknic
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17:03 <@Dagmar> Everything's going to be fair game for people wanting to act homophobic this coming year
17:03 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: I'm just summarizing your position
17:04 <@Dagmar> ...because you said it yourself, if it's not racist, then it's not offensive.
17:04 <@Dagmar> You know if you'd work in terracotta instead of straw there's a whole industry waiting for you in China
17:04 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: you said it yourself.  Because the cartoon is not racist, it is therefore not offensive
17:04 <@Dagmar> No I didn't.
17:04 <@Dagmar> I said because it wasn't racist it wasn't racist.
17:04 <@Corydon76-dig> So you're admitting that the cartoon is offensive?
17:05 <@Dagmar> I also said that it being offensive doesn't mean it's racist.
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17:05 <@Dagmar> It's meant to be unflattering to *somebody*
17:05 <@sdodson> to yo momma
17:05 <@Corydon76-dig> Because, of course, the cartoon author can do better
17:05 <@Dagmar> Did the cops in LA *not* shoot a chimpanzee?
17:05 <@Dagmar> Was that misreported?
17:06 <@Corydon76-dig> I dunno, did they?
17:06 <@Corydon76-dig> I honestly don't keep up with cops shooting animals
17:06 <@Dagmar> Is there or is there *not* an old, old theorem about an infinite number of monkeys sitting at typewriters authoring Hamlet but only eventually?
17:07 <@Dagmar> Well, it was kinda all over CNN that a chimp did in fact rip some woman's face right the hell off
17:07 <@Corydon76-dig> You lost me on the infinite monkeys
17:07 <@Dagmar> They even had the 911 call where the chimp's owner was saying she was pretty sure her friend that was attacked was dead.
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17:07 <@Corydon76-dig> How is infinite monkeys even relevant?
17:07 <@Dagmar> Ths cops even seemed to think it was a GUY becuase of the whole face being ripped off thing.
17:08 <@Corydon76-dig> Ah, and since I don't constantly watch CNN because I'm fucking bored at work, I'm therefore misinformed?
17:08 <@nachoguy> RFC2795?
17:09 <@Dagmar> No, when you're refusing to believe that it happened makes you a tool.
17:09 <@Dagmar> ...and when you can't resist the temptation to lace your arguments with insults it makes you a jackass.
17:10 <@Corydon76-dig> And you're an elitist asshole.
17:10 <@Dagmar> So, in closing...
17:10 <@Dagmar> Go fuck yourself.
17:10 <@Corydon76-dig> Same to you
17:10 <@sdodson> I don't watch CNN and I knew of it.
17:10 < ware> we all have to have the same opinions
17:10 <@sdodson> I don't watch TV and I knew of it.
17:11 <@sdodson> I don't troll internet news sites either and I knew of it
17:11 <@sdodson> I do troll #se2600 though, but that's not how i know of it.
17:11 <@Dagmar> ware: Of course.  Everyone whose opinion is different is a fucking racist, didn't you know
17:12 < ware> but of course!
17:12 <@nachoguy> Dagmar, I disagree, oh wait, shit!
17:12 <@Corydon76-dig> And if it's not racist, it's not offensive, didn't you know
17:12 <@nachoguy> =>
17:12 <@Dagmar> OMG RACIST!
17:12 <@sdodson> nachoguy: your sheet is showing!
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17:13 < ware> lol sdodson your sheet has a brown spot on it!
17:13 <@nachoguy> you better not sheet onna bed, you sunamabitch
17:13  * ware throws a full beer can into the air and blasts it with his 12 gauge
17:13 < ware> YYEEEEHHHAAAWWWW
17:13 <@Dagmar> Man I just need to start reading these docs from the bottom of the page up
17:14 <@Dagmar> No wait, they dont' even bother to define their use of "virtual"
17:17 <@sdodson> Dagmar: what are you reading?
17:18 <@Dagmar> Yet another craptacular C# tutorial
17:18 <@M0j0-j0j0> Corydon76-dig: if it makes you feel any better... I work for the news industry and I still don't know what is going on
17:18 <@Dagmar> There's a lot of them out there that are written by people who might be able to code, but can't document for shit
17:18 <@sdodson> M0j0-j0j0: you don't know what's going on, youjust know what you want people to know is going on
17:19 <@M0j0-j0j0> # this routine will do something at some point
17:19 <@sdodson> I think virtual is another term for polymorphism
17:19 <@Dagmar> I was always of the impression that one should give the reader the definitions for the terminology they're about to see *first* so they'll know what the hell you mean when you say "The frodingator can be widingated only along quesibobular axes."
17:19 < ware> LOLMONKEYFUCKER
17:19 < ware> err
17:19 < ware> wrong chan
17:19 <@sdodson> hah
17:19 < ware> 200lb monkey tho dude, thats some mean shit
17:19 < ware> they have flat teeth too
17:20 < ware> so thats like a brutal ripping of the flesh
17:20 <@sdodson> likea horze
17:20 <@Dagmar> sdodson: Well I gathered that but I'm not trusting it to mean anything more specific than that
17:20  * ware bites on sdodsons face
17:20 < ware> GNAAWWW
17:20 <@nachoguy> sdodson, you lika da horze?
17:20 <@Dagmar> I'm still looking for why they feel it necessary to have this type of declarator
17:20 < Falun> Dagmar: what context is it used in?
17:20 <@nachoguy> we get you a, how you say, da special deal
17:21 <@Dagmar> Classes.
17:21 <@M0j0-j0j0> hmm
17:22 <@Dagmar> Elwehere there's the same sort of thing going on but there they use the terms writeable and non-writeable to discuss methods, and much the same operation seems to be going on there.  Nonvirtual methods may possibly be overrideable but this doc sucks
17:22 < Falun> Dagmar: I'd guess a virtual class was one that has only partial implementation (that is it has some methods stubbed out that subclasses will be forced to implement)
17:22 < Falun> if you know java think abstract classes & methods
17:22  * Falun hasn't fact-checked this
17:23 <@M0j0-j0j0> I watched a movie at some point that had a tangent about a guy in a donkey doing some performance art as a mistake because someone tried to put together a last minute bachelor party
17:23 <@M0j0-j0j0> but I've blocked the title out of my mind...
17:23 <@brimstone> Clerks 2
17:23 <@Dagmar> M0j0-j0j0: Clerks 2
17:24 <@M0j0-j0j0> figured
17:24 <@nachoguy> kinky kelly and the sexy stud
17:24 <@M0j0-j0j0> sounded like something only Kevin Smith would have put in something
17:26 <@Dagmar> C'mon they had anal sex with underaged girls VIDEOTAPED in Clerks
17:26 <@Dagmar> er Mall Rats
17:26 <@Dagmar> ...and sex with a dead body in Clerks.
17:27 <@M0j0-j0j0> I think his first movie was called Drawing Flies... and if you think he's a little twisted in a funny kinda way... you should catch it... because the truth is that the rabbit hole might be a little deeper than his later work shows
17:27 <@M0j0-j0j0> even the sex with a donkey thing
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17:27 <@rattle> I love nginx.
17:27 <@M0j0-j0j0> the ending of the third nipple thing was good
17:28 <@rattle> Pushing 100Mbit out of a webserver..  1% CPU utilization.  Fuck Apache.
17:28 <@Dagmar> heheh
17:28 <@sdodson> What's nginx doing?
17:28 <@M0j0-j0j0> the little ngin that could
17:28 <@sdodson> I'm sure apache could be tuned for that particular usage just as effectively.
17:28 <@Dagmar> Caching static documents
17:29 <@rattle> Just serving static files off a nas..  But none the less, that's way more efficient than apache..
17:29 <@rattle> Apache is seriously bloated at this point..  I've yet to find anything it does better than nginx.
17:29 <@rattle> I'm going to experiment using it with php5 at some point soon..
17:29 <@Dagmar> So start disabling modules and so on
17:31 <@M0j0-j0j0> apache might be a more mature project
17:31 <@sdodson> I'm not entirely convinced that all thes specialized httpds are any better than apache when tuned for a specific use case.
17:31 <@rattle> It
17:32 <@rattle> It's also got neater configuration.
17:32 <@Dagmar> So like, here's an article written by a freaking MAC user that actually explains WTF virual and derived classes are
17:32 <@Dagmar> http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.10/10.09/DerivedClasses/
17:33 <@rattle> I've become a huge fan of nginx and varnish.
17:33 <@rattle> I never want to see Squid again.
17:33 <@rattle> Ever.
17:33 <@M0j0-j0j0> I was a huge fan of varnish at one point to, but I'm clean now
17:33 <@Dagmar> heh
17:36 <+eryc> sourceforge uses nginx
17:36 <@Dagmar> ..and it's sooo fast.
17:36 <+eryc> their shit broke last week
17:36 <+eryc> heh
17:37 <+eryc> i need to try out caching my tomcats
17:38 <@sdodson> what do you do eryc?
17:38 <+eryc> i just have apache/ssl in front of them now
17:38 <+eryc> im a sr sysadmin
17:38 <@sdodson> i need to learn app scaling
17:38 <@rattle> eryc: Try varnish.  It's better than squid in every possible way.
17:39 <@nachoguy> except for having a name that is related to sea ceatures!
17:39 <@sdodson> that's barnicle
17:39 <+eryc> rattle: word. i will after i setup puppet.. :)
17:39 <@nachoguy> arr, ye be getting awful close to walkin' th' plank
17:40 <+eryc> varnish is like thompsons water seal
17:41 <@brimstone> does varnish work like a transparent proxy for a network?
17:41 <+eryc> i dont think pirates or sea creatures use much varnish
17:41 <+eryc> brimstone: http only
17:41 <@rattle> brimstone: It's designed specifically to do server acceleration, not transparent proxy like Squid.
17:41 <@rattle> It also doesn't manage it's memory in the brain dead fashion squid does..
17:41 <@rattle> Squid has you manually configure how much memory it uses versus disk..
17:42 <@brimstone> ah, ok, is there something "10x faster then squid" that will do transparent proxying?
17:42 <@Dagmar> Squid isn't stupid about it.
17:42 <@Dagmar> Squid just doesn't fucking CARE.
17:42 <@rattle> So if you don't have it perfect, and it swaps..  It will run slow as balls whenever it decides it needs to take something out of memory and put it on disk, when it was actually on disk in virtual memory.
17:42 <+eryc> brimstone: not really
17:42 <@brimstone> ... doesn't every program have that "fault"
17:42 <@Dagmar> You set up squid to cache, you gave it implied permission to eat as much memory as it damn well likes and most of your swap as dessert
17:42 <@rattle> Varnish uses virtual memory to begin with, and lets the kernel manage if it's serving from disk or memory..
17:43 <+eryc> the solution is to eliminate users
17:43 <@rattle> It also completely decouples the proxy process from the logging processes...  So you can run the logging on a different machine..
17:43 <@rattle> And have one machine do logging for multiple caches..
17:43  * Dagmar is with eryc
17:45 <@rattle> Varnish's configuration scheme is also rockin..  You can configure it to do just about any caching behavior you can imagine.
17:46 <@rattle> You can have it make caching decisions based on cookie content..  So you can have it make caching decisions based on things like if a request is associated with a user session..
17:47 <@Dagmar> Didn't we already learn that's not so great?
17:47 <@Dagmar> Hijacking session cookies and all that?
17:47 <@rattle> Um, you are not understanding what I"m saying.
17:47 <@Dagmar> OKay
17:48 <@rattle> If a cookie is present indicating a request is associated with a user, you can pass the request directly to the application servers.
17:48 <@rattle> If there isn't a cookie indicating a user, then you cache.
17:48 <@rattle> There are way to do that with Squid, but they are all painful.
17:49 <@rattle> And it's really necessary..  Because if you have a site that contains dynamic context that is different for each user, there is no way to cache pages.
17:50 <@rattle> You can only buffer the server response while the user downloads..
17:50 <@Dagmar> Isn't that why the nocache pragma exists?
17:51 <@rattle> Furthermore, it's possible to have it hash the content based on cookie information when it places it in the cache..  So you can cache different versions of pages based on session IDs.
17:51 <@rattle> Dagmar: You often want browsers to have different caching behavior than server acceleration proxies.
17:52 <@rattle> Actually, you always want client browsers to have different behavior than acceleration caches.
17:52 <@rattle> Shit gets dicy when you need to serve 20+Mbit of just dynamically generated HTML.
17:53 <@rattle> The difference between a 20% cache hit rate and a 80% cache hit rate on a high traffic site is about a rack of servers.
17:53 <@M0j0-j0j0> akami
17:53 <@rattle> akami doesn't do shit for you when you have user specific content.
17:53 <@rattle> CDN's are really only useful for static content and rich media.
17:54 <@M0j0-j0j0> depends on how you work with them
17:54 <@M0j0-j0j0> if you can pawn off the static parts of the page and rich media...
17:55 <@rattle> They do have a really rich API for including dynamic content within static content, and doing caching of it all..
17:55 <@rattle> But it's still seriously limited.
17:55 <@M0j0-j0j0> give you a lot more server time to do the cool dynamic parts of the page with
17:56 <@rattle> Offloading strict static content is easy.
17:56 <@rattle> You can do that with CDNs or just having lightweight servers that are not setup to do dynamic page generation do it..
17:56 <@rattle> The tricky bits are when you have content that is static for most users, but dynamic for others.
17:57 <@rattle> Then you need intelligence at the caching tier of the application, and there really isn't any way around it.
17:57 <+eryc> more javascript!
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17:58 <@M0j0-j0j0> and cowbell
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18:11 <@aestetix> wait
18:11 <@aestetix> hijacking session cookies? Don't the secure and httponly flags prevent that, for the most party?
18:11 <@aestetix> part*
18:11 <@aestetix> There may be some exploit I'm not aware of...
18:13  * aestetix rereads *nevermind*
18:16 <@M0j0-j0j0> aestetix: yeah, I didn't think that any exploit existed that you would not be aware of.
18:16 <@M0j0-j0j0> that was just silly talk
18:16 <@aestetix> M0j0-j0j0: do you need a hug?
18:17  * M0j0-j0j0 hugs Dolemite.
18:17 <@M0j0-j0j0> aestetix: I think I'm good
18:18 <@aestetix> clusterhug with Dolemite?
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18:19 <@M0j0-j0j0> hmm... I bunch of guys all clumped together "hugging"
18:19 <@M0j0-j0j0> sounds like rugby
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18:59 <@M0j0-j0j0> ugg
19:00 <@M0j0-j0j0> I know I need to go to the gym, but I really want the day off
19:00 <@sasquatc4> http://www.photobasement.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/five.jpg
19:00 <@M0j0-j0j0> ha
19:01 <@M0j0-j0j0> I'll do the jog and see how I feel about the weights
19:02 <@M0j0-j0j0> the jog is the important part anyway
19:03 <@M0j0-j0j0> bah
19:03 -!- M0j0-j0j0 [n=Mojo_Joj@rrcs-70-62-123-52.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit ["You are the weakest link.  Goodbye"]
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20:45 <@sasquatc4> sweet, the snl digital shorts guys came out with a cd
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21:42 <@Evilpig> rattle and neo are still in d.c. right?
21:48 <@aestetix> I believe so.
21:48 <@Evilpig> we know anyone here that works for a company called colonialwebb?
21:48 <@Evilpig> mainly in VA but they have some offices in DC and down as far south as SC
21:49 <@aestetix> I do not believe so.
21:50 -!- Catonic_ [n=catonic@175-109.125-70.bham.res.rr.com] has joined #se2600
21:50 < Catonic_> I'm bored. Who wants to go stare at titties and drink beer?
21:50 -!- Catonic_ is now known as Cinotac
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21:51 <+eryc> im down
21:51 <@Catonic_lp> eryc: cool. The beer is natty lite and the titty's are Dolemite's
21:52 <@Catonic_lp> s/y's/ies/
21:52 <@aestetix> next word: hairbrush
21:52 <@Catonic_lp> your mother
21:52 <@Catonic_lp> werd.
21:52 <+eryc> terdwerd
21:52 <@aestetix> bird is the word
21:53 <@Catonic_lp> a ba-ba-bird bird bird
21:53 <@Catonic_lp> next
21:53 <@aestetix> oh lol
21:53 <@aestetix> next word: magazine
21:53 <@Catonic_lp> rifle
21:53 <@aestetix> next word: marriage
21:54 <@Catonic_lp> dead inside
21:54 <@aestetix> next word: holocaust
21:54 <@Catonic_lp> rabbits
21:54 <@aestetix> wtf
21:54 <@Catonic_lp> tool =)
21:54 <@aestetix> how do you get "rabbits" from "holocaust"
21:54 <@CRasH180> rabbit stew ala Fatal Attraction != Holocaust
21:55 <+eryc> http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=WIGU-OCCAM&Category_Code=WIGU
21:55 <@Catonic_lp> http://toolshed.down.net/lyrics/undertowlyrics.php
21:55 <@CRasH180> lol
21:55 <@Catonic_lp> "Disgustipated"
21:55 <@aestetix> next word: shower
21:56 <@Catonic_lp> These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust."
21:56 <@Catonic_lp> I need to
21:57 <@Catonic_lp> CRasH180: was that a rabbit between her legs?
21:57 <@CRasH180> boing boing boing
21:57 <@Catonic_lp> looked more like beef jerky
21:57 <@CRasH180> sure was
21:58 <@Catonic_lp> next word
21:58 <@CRasH180> allegory
21:58 <@Catonic_lp> dante
21:59 <@CRasH180> stupendous
22:00 <@Catonic_lp> magnificent
22:00 <@CRasH180> OH, you flatter me. Thanks :->
22:05 <@Evilpig> can someone suggest a free shell site?  one that is quick to get an account and has at least ssh and nmap would be spiffy
22:05 <@Catonic_lp> 127.0.0.1.
22:05 <@Catonic_lp> aestetix: next word
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22:06 <@CRasH180> Evilpig: http://www.red-pill.eu/freeunix.shtml
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22:06 <@CRasH180> found ssh, but not nmap on that list
22:06 <@Evilpig> I was already on there
22:07 <@Evilpig> and getting a quick one that has simple services is a pita
22:07 <@CRasH180> Well, the top entry freeshell.org seems to have ssh, but not nmap
22:07 <@CRasH180> yep
22:07 <@Evilpig> silenceisdefeat.org is dead now it seems
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22:10 <@Evilpig> To use this feature, please join the SDF 'arpa' membership
22:10 <@Evilpig> ARPA membership is available to you for a one time donation of only $36.
22:10 <@Evilpig> that is freeshell.org when you try to ssh out
22:10 <@CRasH180> lol
22:11 <@CRasH180> one time donation
22:11 <@CRasH180> crap
22:13 <@Catonic_lp> dog poo.
22:14 <@Catonic_lp> Have you ever gone to the grocery store and thought: "Damn, I have the shittiest car here."
22:14 <@CRasH180> Tomorrow is National Pancake day and from 7am to 10pm get free pancakes from IHOP. Plus a donation if you so choose.
22:15 <@Catonic_lp> I haven't had that feeling in a while. Then I found out where the people with money shop.
22:21 <@Evilpig> oooooOOOoOooo  I found a new toy
22:21 <@Evilpig> got a server running fedora with apache 2.2.3 not hardened.  openssh, not updated.  and it's running parallels unsecured from the outside
22:22 <@sdodson> omg, lets come up with a name for that
22:22 <@sdodson> ............lets call it...................... honey......pot!
22:22 <@Evilpig> sucker.com ?
22:22 <@Evilpig> I thought that at first.  
22:22 <@CRasH180> crap-i-dont-get-hacked
22:22 <@CRasH180> brb
22:23 <@Evilpig> 220 ProFTPD 1.3.0 Server (ProFTPD) [192.168.0.2]
22:23 <@Evilpig> think it is just someone that didn't think to lock shit down right
22:24 <@Evilpig> when I saw that mysql was open to the outside I thoguht honeypot right away
22:27 <@Catonic_lp> "pwn-me.com"
22:27 <@Catonic_lp> omg pwnies!
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23:04 <+eryc> "Last week, the unnamed man was dismissed after employees of the U.S. Inspector General's office, conducting an audit of Antarctica's McMurdo Station, discovered the aftermath of a Jell-O wrestling party."
23:04 <+eryc> hah
23:06 <@Dagmar> Wow
23:06 <@Dagmar> That's awesome
23:06 <@Dagmar> I guess they've found a few ways to fill the time up there
23:06 <@Corydon76-dig> "Up" there?
23:07 <@sasquatc4> i always heard they end up screwing alot, cause its something to do, and its fun, and lets you get to know everyone
23:07 <@sasquatc4> so a jello wrestling event doesnt really surprise me
23:08  * Corydon76-dig organizes the PhreakNIC 13 jello wrestling event
23:10 <@sasquatc4> not sure if i would want to see that
23:10 <@sasquatc4> not sure if anyone wants to see that
23:11 <@Dagmar> *sigh* Got a mail back from the helmet people
23:11 <@Dagmar> HJC is still spanking around on backorders for the helmet I want
23:12 <@Dagmar> They're offering to ship me a plain flat black one, but I think I'll just hold off on that.
23:14 <@Dagmar> Ther'es nothing really wrong with the one I have that some Brasso and elbow grease won't fix
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23:27 <@m0j0-j0j0> This is Devina.  You are live on channel four... please do not swear.
23:31 <@sasquatc4> fuckin broadcom, i swear they exist just to make more work for me
23:43 <@m0j0-j0j0> yeah, I have a memo from them singling you out
23:53 <@sasquatc4> not all of them, just the ones i have to work with
23:55 <@m0j0-j0j0> the memo said that all of them should focus on the goal so if you could tell me the names of those that aren't on board..we'll take care of them
23:57 <@m0j0-j0j0> bootlegga
23:58 -!- jeebusroxors [n=pwnasaur@unaffiliated/jeebusroxors] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
--- Log closed Tue Feb 24 00:00:22 2009