--- Log opened Fri Dec 05 00:00:02 2008
00:00 <@Catonic> chicks really don't like being known as your dirty little secret.
00:04 < Mercster> oh
00:08 <@Corydon76-dig> So clearly, you don't need to sober up until afterwards
00:09 <@Corydon76-dig> Or find a friend who's willing to let you "experiment"
00:09 <@Corydon76-dig> or just get a blowjob
00:10 <@juice> hi
00:10 <@Catonic> Corydon76-dig: keep dreaming.
00:10 <@Corydon76-dig> Catonic: not from me
00:11 <@Corydon76-dig> For the foreseeable future, Peaches is the only one who will be getting blowjobs from me
00:12 < Mercster> see, gays DO try to convert ppl!
00:13 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: who are we trying to convert?
00:13 < Mercster> Catonic
00:13 <@Corydon76-dig> Catonic is just trying to get laid, for the first time
00:13 <@Catonic> I am?
00:13 <@Corydon76-dig> Okay, Catonic isn't trying to get laid, ever.
00:13 <@Catonic> This is news to me.
00:14 < Mercster> Catonic: dont let Corydon76-dig persuade you with the insidious evil of boners!
00:14 <@Catonic> I just thought I was trying to get laid again.
00:14 < Mercster> yea Catonic taps strange all the time
00:14 <@Catonic> And not laid in the way that makes my ass hurt.
00:14 < Mercster> Catonic: you ever looked on okcupid? i met a couple chicks on there
00:15 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: what diseases did they give you?
00:15 <@Catonic> I've looked on various sites, all I find around here is crazy and/or obese.
00:15 < Mercster> Catonic: well, all girls are crazy
00:15 <@Corydon76-dig> What's wrong with fat chicks?
00:15 < Mercster> you might need to lower the bar a little there
00:16 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: besides mental illness? none
00:16 <@Catonic> Then again, I've also found crazy outside of dating sites
00:16 < Mercster> Catonic: okcupid has tons of ppl
00:16 <@Corydon76-dig> Mercster: unfortunately, some of them are underage
00:17 <@Catonic> Mercster: not all girls are crazy. Some can be a lot of fun.
00:17 < Mercster> Corydon76-dig: i dunno, i only troll for internet 'tang of an appropriate age
00:17 <@Catonic> some women are much better socialized than others.
00:17 <@Corydon76-dig> Before I found Peaches, there was a guy who claimed in his profile to be 18 and wanted to fuck...
00:17 <@Corydon76-dig> turns out he was only 16
00:17 <@Catonic> Corydon76-dig: and his name was mr?
00:18 <@Corydon76-dig> jailbait!
00:18 <@Catonic> I don't really see how you can deal with jailbait on the gay side of life.
00:18 <@Catonic> Because, at least in Alabama, sodomy is illegal.
00:18 <@Corydon76-dig> Catonic: you're misinformed
00:18 <@Catonic> so bam, it's a double whammy.
00:18 <@remoford> actually
00:18 < Mercster> lol
00:19 <@remoford> the supreme court ruled that down
00:19 <@Corydon76-dig> Sodomy isn't illegal anywhere in the US, anymore
00:19 <@Catonic> O RLY?
00:19 <@Catonic> Excuse me, I need to go call a senator.
00:19 <@Catonic> I've had a rod for those bastards for quite some time.
00:19 <@Corydon76-dig> Well, underage sodomy might be illegal
00:19 <@Corydon76-dig> but between consenting adults, it's fully legal
00:19 < Mercster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States
00:20 < Mercster> Sodomy laws in the United States, laws primarily intended to outlaw gay sex, were historically pervasive, but have been invalidated by the 2003 Supreme Court decision Lawrence v. Texas.
00:20 < Mercster> Lawrence, what a homo
00:20 <@Catonic> well, at least inter-racial marriage is still illegal here.
00:21 < Mercster> ?
00:21 <@Catonic> we can't go around havin' them italians and jews marrying.
00:21 < Mercster> eye-talians
00:21 < Mercster> eye-talians snd jooz
00:22 <@Catonic> the largest problem with that law is that there's not a sherriff or deputy anywhere that wants to be involved in that case.
00:22 <@remoford> im pretty sure if that was tested it would get struck down something fierce
00:23 <@Catonic> exactly. And no police officer or deputy will risk his job and future on testing that unjust law..
00:23 < Mercster> i have a harder time believing interracial marriage in unlawful anywhere, than sodomy laws still exist
00:23 <@Catonic> the state's legislature refuses to even hear it.
00:23 < Mercster> what is that, some county ordinance
00:24 <@Catonic> no, it's an amendment to AL's constitution of 1901.
00:25 <@remoford> that is a pretty broken part of the system
00:25 <@remoford> that someone cant challenge that law
00:25 <@remoford> unless someone is willing to proescute them for it
00:25 < Mercster> In 1967, the United States Supreme Court unanimously ruled in Loving v. Virginia that anti-miscegenation laws are unconstitutional. With this ruling, these laws were no longer in effect in the remaining 16 states that still had them.
00:25 < Mercster> sounds like the same deal as sodomy laws
00:25 <@Catonic> remoford: idn't it?
00:26 < Mercster> what we need is laws against grandma
00:27 <@remoford> actually laws against old folks
00:27 <@remoford> but
00:27 <@remoford> you know, as the commercial says
00:27 <@remoford> dont trust anyone over 70
00:27 <@remoford> fucking old people
00:27 <@remoford> and its all the healthcare systems fault
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00:29 <@remoford> this is a serious problem with the idea of universal healthcare
00:29 <@remoford> if youve got a walker and your mind is half gone
00:29 <@remoford> you are of zero use to society
00:29 <@remoford> and prolly a drain
00:29 <@remoford> discuss
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00:31 <@ShadowHntr> sup remoford
00:31 <@remoford> yoyo
00:31  * Catonic flashes the farmer sign
00:31 <@Catonic> plows up... hoes down.
00:35 <@Catonic> come on, that was funny.
00:37 < eryc> funny like yer face
00:43 < Mercster> ZING
00:44 <@dasunt> Gah, I'm bored.
00:44  * dasunt trolls the vegetarian forum.
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00:59 <@Catonic> sup dasunt
00:59 <@Catonic> hollywood is finally starting to make it not worth torrenting
00:59 <@Catonic> by the time you can torrent the movie, it's on the shelves.
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01:13 <@dasunt> Catonic: Drunk again.
01:13 <@dasunt> It happens.
01:16 <@Catonic> dasunt: you're scaring me. Think about your liver. Go to a doctor and tell them how much you're drinking and get a test run or something
01:16 <@Catonic> that shit is going to steal your looks and then were will you be?
01:17 <@dasunt> Maybe I'll look my age.
01:17 <@dasunt> Plus, my looks aren't anything to destroy.
01:19 < Mercster> im drunk too yaaay
01:20 <@dasunt> #se2600.  It's like AA, but none of us are giving up alcohol.
01:20 <@dasunt> Catonic: I do worry about my liver a bit.
01:21 < Mercster> i used to drink 2 pints of vodka a day
01:21 < Mercster> my pancreas shut down at one point
01:21 < Mercster> i stick to beer anymore
01:23 <@dasunt> I'm on gin & diet soda.
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01:29 <@remoford> mmm gin
01:29 <@remoford> ive been getting shots of sapphire with dinner lately
01:29 <@remoford> sorta christmasy
01:30 <@remoford> but i think sunday is going to be a sake day
01:30 <@remoford> mmm sake
01:31 <@remoford> mmm booze for that matter
01:32 <@remoford> altho
01:32 <@remoford> unlike some of you fucks, i can quit anytime
01:32  * remoford keeps tellin himself that
01:33 <@remoford> damnit im supposed to be asleep
01:35 <@dasunt> I can quit anytime.
01:35 <@dasunt> Where anytime == run out of money.
01:39 < Mercster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenkem
01:39 < Mercster> :-/
01:40 <@dasunt> LOL.
01:40 <@Catonic> dasunt: aside from yesterday's drink, I have no intention of restarting drinking
01:43 <@Catonic> remoford: the only good thing about drinking last night was that I actually slept.
01:43 <@Catonic> unforch, it was all day.
01:43 < Mercster> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Jenkem1.jpg
01:43 <@Catonic> I'd give my eye-teeth to be able to fall asleep right now.
01:43  * Mercster dies
01:44 <@Catonic> so that's where the cheesing phenomenom got started
01:44 <@Catonic> "tell your kids about cheesing"
01:45 <@dasunt> Sleep is for the innocent and the lucky.
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01:47 <@Catonic> As I am neither of those things...
01:47 < Mercster> "butt hash"
01:47 <@dasunt> None of us who have really lived are.
01:47  * Mercster dies
01:48 <@dasunt> Why do you keep dying?
01:53 <@Catonic> he must be a coward
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01:54 <@dasunt> Coward:  Someone who understands the end result before everyone else.
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02:34 <@Catonic> I'm thinking... Austin.
02:34 <@Catonic> or SF or NYC.
02:34 <@Catonic> I don't think I have the stones for DC, I hate government contractors.
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02:48 <@aestetix> Hey, what's the ideal length for a press relase?
02:50 <@Catonic> no idea
02:56 <@Catonic> depends i suppose
02:56 <@Catonic> maybe 250 words or so..
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05:07 <@Catonic>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenkem
05:07 <@scoil> already know what it is
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07:31 < TheLightCosine> w00t
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07:51 <@polerin> so.. bush moves back to dallas to a house that's not in a gated community
07:51 <@polerin> gah... it's tempting to drop off a snarky letter :P
07:51 <@polerin> or a sign
07:51 <@polerin> or something
07:51 <@polerin> I know he probably won't see it but still
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08:54 <@rhia> polerin: Bush house, Dallas - that cul-de-sac area doesn't need to be gated - there's enough private security that the SS may take up knitting
08:56 <@maco> rhia: and if there's not, those knitting needles could come in handy for going after eyeballs!
08:58 <@Neoteric> sleep @ 5am is not good to make 10am phone call
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09:21 <@polerin> rhia: the interesting thing is that unless that cul-de-sac is private property in and of itself, they have a really hard time justifying just stopping you
09:21 <@polerin> i'm not saying I want to threaten his safty or would do anything that stupid ;P
09:23 <@rhia> polerin: this is TX
09:23 <@polerin> I know I know
09:23 <@polerin> as I said, it's a dream :P
09:24 <@rhia> the AVG gun per person count is 8
09:26 <@rhia> and Preston Hollow is in the Dallas PD's jurisdiction ..... good luck Trying to push back against Mr MegaBucks' rentacop's version vs your version to the Dalla$ PD
09:31 <@polerin> rhia: yay for video cameras ;)
09:32 <@rhia> polerin: unless you bring a Very large crowd, All filming, hooray for that video camera you SAID you had
09:33 <@polerin> hehe
09:33 <@rhia> i wish i was joking
09:33 <@polerin> oh, i'm not stupid, it'd be well hidden, and I'd not mention it till I was well out of the situation
09:33 <@polerin> also, I'm not stupid, I wouldn't actually try that :P
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09:37 <@rhia> Bush is 'retiring' to a 2 million+ home, Plus still owns his photo-op ranch - no wonder he feels he kept a careful 8 yr watch over the economy ....
09:38 <@rhia> he's doing fine, Cheney's doing fine, and McCain Still has all his houses! What recession?
09:40 <@polerin> :P
09:40 <@polerin> yeah
09:41 <@Lissa> they're talking about their hairlines
09:44 <@sdodson> unce unce unce
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09:45 <@sdodson> 2M isn't too bad
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09:51 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0 h0 h0ez!
09:53 < TheLightCosine> mornin dole
09:55 <@Dolemite> howdy
09:55 <@Dolemite> you coming to the meeting tonight?
09:57  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
09:58 <@aestetix> Hmm. Is "journo" inside slang for a journalist?
09:58 <@polerin> mrmfblsm
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10:20 < nated0g_wrk> i think our spam filter works little too well
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10:27 < TheLightCosine> oh
10:27 < TheLightCosine> in response to your question Dole: yes i am going to try
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10:48 <@aestetix> Neoteric: check your email
10:48 <@aestetix> rattle: I'm sending the same thing to you
10:50 < TheLightCosine> man i am beat
10:50 < TheLightCosine> one more hour to go
10:50 <@aestetix> until what?
10:50 < TheLightCosine> until work is over
10:51 <@aestetix> night shift?
10:52 < TheLightCosine> UK
10:52 < TheLightCosine> I work 3am-12pm local time
10:52 < TheLightCosine> I support the UK and Rest of World IT operations
10:53 <@aestetix> Ahh.
10:53 <@aestetix> You gonna make it to CCC? :)
10:53 < TheLightCosine> CCC?
10:54 <@aestetix> http://events.ccc.de/congress/2008/
10:54 < TheLightCosine> I'm in Nashville heh
10:54 < TheLightCosine> I can't even afford going to Defcon
10:55 <@aestetix> Oh. In Nashville, on UK time :p
10:55 <@nachoguy> meh, defcon is expensive.  Phreaknic is the place to be
10:55 < TheLightCosine> yeah
10:55 < TheLightCosine> I msised phreaknic too
10:55 <@aestetix> nachoguy: I will note that I've missed defcon many times, but I haven't a phreaknic in years.
10:55 < TheLightCosine> my second daughter was born and spent two weeks at Vandy children's hospital
10:55 <@aestetix> haven't missed*
10:56 <@aestetix> PhreakNIC has a better sense of community.
10:56 <@nachoguy> well, that's a re reason well worth missing it.  She ok?
10:56 < TheLightCosine> one of our Security guys over in ipswich gets sent to Blackhat every year by the company, I'm hoping to stow away in his luggage next year =P
10:56 <@nachoguy> aestetix yep, that's the reason I keep coming back
10:56 < TheLightCosine> yeah she's fine now
10:56 < TheLightCosine> she had a pulmonary stenosis
10:56 <@aestetix> DefCon... DC has a community, but you have to break through the barriers to reach it.
10:56 <@nachoguy> and in english that means a heart what?
10:56 <@Dolemite> TheLightCosine : Congratulations on the birth and the discharge from VCH
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10:57 < TheLightCosine> the pulmonary valve of ehr heart didn't open the whole way
10:57 < TheLightCosine> thanks dole
10:57 <@aestetix> TheLightCosine: wow, that's bad.
10:57 <@nachoguy> aestetix, sure, but after dcX, I got turned off on it.  too crowded to even get into the talks you wanted to see.   I hear that's resolved now, but still, meh
10:57 < TheLightCosine> actually out of all the heart defects a child can have it's the least serious
10:57 <@aestetix> nachoguy: The only problem with PhreakNIC is that I keep showing up ;)
10:58 <@nachoguy> aestetix, I don't count is as a problem
10:58 <@nachoguy> eer it
10:58 < TheLightCosine> the pulmonary valve is low pressure while the aortic valve is high pressure and cannot sustain the pressure and is less tolerant of backflow caused by the catheridization
10:58 < TheLightCosine> they just snake a balloon up throguh her veins and inflate it inside the valve to force it back open
10:59 < TheLightCosine> of course they over sedated her, and her throat was hurt during intubation, which meant she couldn't eat properly, which cost us another week
11:00 < TheLightCosine> overall october was a stressful month heh
11:00 < Mercster> TheLightCosine: scary shit..my second kid was in ICU after being born for awhile...glad everything is ok
11:00 <@Dolemite> Man, y'all shut up.  My second one is due in May and you're making me get anxious.
11:00 <@aestetix> Ok. Time to test how good twitter really is communication.
11:01 < Mercster> Dolemite: goes to show, shit happens
11:01 < TheLightCosine> Dolemite: don't worry, even if something were to happen, Vandy is one of the top children's hospitals in the world
11:01 < Mercster> Dolemite: good news is, they can fix most problems
11:01 < TheLightCosine> you couldn't lvie in a better place in that regards
11:02 < Mercster> my son was born not breathing and no detectable pulse, was just a difficult labor, he's perfectly fine now
11:02 < TheLightCosine> heh Brigid was the easiest labour possible
11:02 < Mercster> TheLightCosine: my daughter was like that
11:02 <@Dolemite> Yes, well, my wife and I are both 38, so we've got a higher probability of there being issues.
11:02 < TheLightCosine> the first time i've ever heard a nurse say "Whatever you do, don't push yet! The Doctor isn't here yet!"
11:03 < TheLightCosine> although it was a messy birth
11:03 < TheLightCosine> there was blood even on the far wall
11:03 < Mercster> heh
11:04 < Mercster> yeah births aint pretty
11:04 <@Dolemite> During our first child's delivery the doctor didn't make it in until our son was almost all the way out.
11:04 <@Dolemite> Yeah, most guys seem to get grossed out the most about the placenta.
11:05 <@aestetix> Meh. Placenta isn't so bad with salt.
11:05 < Mercster> :-/
11:06 <@Dolemite> You say that because you've never seen one expelled from a vagina.
11:06 < Mercster> im kinda squeamish with blood anyway, id didnt even cut the cord or anything
11:06 <@Dolemite> yeah, me, neither
11:06 < Mercster> i was like "no no, thats ok, towel it off then ill hold it"
11:06 < Mercster> the baby, not the cord
11:06 <@Dolemite> My wife went all natural with no drugs...   hypno birthing
11:06 < Mercster> Dolemite: ugh
11:07 <@aestetix> Woah, I just came up with a great name for a german porno
11:07 <@aestetix> "Dr. Pooshittle"
11:09 < TheLightCosine> I cut the cord the first time
11:09 < TheLightCosine> i didn't do it the second heh
11:10 < TheLightCosine> I'm not squeamish about blood
11:11 < TheLightCosine> but placenta is horrifying
11:17 < nated0g_wrk> how the heck did yall get on this topic?
11:18 < TheLightCosine> heh
11:18 < Mercster> nated0g_wrk: im having your baby
11:19 < nated0g_wrk> pop quiz hot shot...u got big or little tits?
11:19 < Mercster> my manboobs are substantial
11:19 < nated0g_wrk> ok then it might be mine
11:19 < nated0g_wrk> shit
11:19 < TheLightCosine> heh
11:19 < Mercster> !
11:20 < TheLightCosine> nated0g: that was hardly a scientific question
11:21 < TheLightCosine> you mgiht as well have asked "am I alive"
11:21 < TheLightCosine> the answer is as easy to guess
11:21 < TheLightCosine> unless of course you're some sort of sub-routine in the carnivore project meant to monitor us
11:26 < Mercster> OJ's guilty
11:27 <@aestetix> huh
11:27 <@aestetix> my dns just took a shit
11:27 < TheLightCosine> make sure it washes it's hands
11:40 < nated0g_wrk> thats why i have opendns as a backup dns
11:41 <@Shadow404> thats why we have 4 high availibility servers and back up recursive dns in every colocated city
11:45 <@Evilpig> in one page view I have bloody baby --> poop porn --> dns   wtf is with this channel at times?
11:45 < Mercster> i joined :(
11:45 <@Dolemite> Evilpig : The darkest corners of your soul
11:45 <@Shadow404> dont forget the midgets!!!
11:46 <@Evilpig> I didn't see midgets
11:46 <@Shadow404> heh
11:46 <@aestetix> Speaking of midgets, Shadow404 how is your mom?
11:46 < Mercster> mmm midgets <--
11:46 <@Evilpig> I am really annoyed right now though.  I can't find my ds
11:46 <@Shadow404> aestetix: shes nice, ill tell her you asked
11:46 <@Evilpig> I am wondering if I accidentally left it at a customer site
11:47 <@rhia> Mercster: nah, you can't take the credit - just means you're part of this circus
11:47 < Mercster> rhia: i feel warmly included, and creeped out at the same time
11:48 <@aestetix> Mercster: have you gotten the Corydon76-dig introduction yet?
11:48 < Mercster> aestetix: he told me about blowing his boyfriend
11:48 < Mercster> is there another one
11:49 <@Dolemite> Evilpig : With your luck, you left it at a chicken processing plant.
11:49 <@Dolemite> Or that chemical plant
11:50 < Mercster> aestetix: i hope that was him anyway, i hope i didnt just put his nickname where it ought not be ;-)
11:50 < Mercster> there are some similar nicknames here
11:50 <@Dolemite> Corydon* loves to tell you about how much cock he sucks
11:51 <@Dolemite> s/you/everybody
11:51 <@aestetix> Dolemite: despite that, he's still fucked more woman than Catonic
11:51 < Mercster> ok, i havent killed all my braincells after all
11:51 <@Dolemite> aestetix : That's debatable.  Supposedly Catonic finally got his dick wet.
11:51 <@aestetix> Who put out?
11:52 <@Dolemite> Besides your mother?
11:52 < Mercster> WHO'S ZOOMIN WHO
11:52 <@aestetix> Actually that night Catonic showed up $5 short, so no dice
11:52 <@Dolemite> $5?  What was he getting, a threesome with your sister, too?
11:53 <@aestetix> If I had a sister.
11:53 < Mercster> mmmm sisters <--
11:54 <@Mirage> Does it count if a girl just spills her drink in his lap?
11:54 <@aestetix> Mercster: jesus man, I know you're in the south, but have some dignity
11:54 < Mercster> aestetix: life aint nuthin but a funny funny riddle...
11:54 <@Dolemite> aestetix : Just because he like sisters it doesn't mean he likes his own.  You're the one that needs to think outside of the immediate family.
11:55 <@aestetix> Dolemite: I like moms too.
11:55 <@aestetix> Just not my own.
11:56 <@aestetix> Mercster: if you're with a girl, does it make you rush if you think "she has a brother"
11:56 < Mercster> aestetix: mmmm brothers
11:56 < Mercster> :-/
11:56 < TheLightCosine> lol
11:57 < TheLightCosine> I love the "endless msgbox" prank
11:57 < TheLightCosine> especially when you set it running as Wuser32.exe un NTAuthority\SYSTEM lol
11:57 -!- coil [i=coil@unaffiliated/coil] has quit ["ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net"]
12:00 <@rhia> TheLightCosine: reminded me of the old back orifice pranks - we kept asking my roommate if she wanted to buy a pencil
12:00 < TheLightCosine> heh
12:00 <@rhia> "buy a pencil now""pencils are kewl""c'mon, you Know you want to buy a pencil"
12:01 < TheLightCosine> my last prank was to write a simple recursive heap-spraying vbs script that instantiated multiple copies of itself
12:01 < TheLightCosine> "have fun with no available ram or pagefile"
12:01 < TheLightCosine> heh
12:01 < TheLightCosine> anyways quittin time
12:01 < TheLightCosine> ttfn
12:01 -!- TheLightCosine [i=0c1314c9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-03fc93d451f543ea] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
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12:18 <@aestetix> http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/845973660.html
12:18 <@aestetix> God I love New York.
12:24 <@rhia> aestetix: CL poster: <applause>
12:25 <@aestetix> rhia: It's so true.
12:25 <@aestetix> I am fucking sick of dealing with the hipsters.
12:25 <@aestetix> They move into a ghetto part of Brooklyn to be "cool" and get all freaked out when they get mugged, shot, robbed, or worse.
12:25 <@Shadow404> very nice post
12:25 < nated0g_wrk> brought a tear to my eye
12:25 <@aestetix> There's a reason it used to be called "Crookyln"
12:26 <@aestetix> er, Crooklyn
12:27 <@aestetix> rhia: wanna hear my hobo story?
12:27 <@aestetix> Was hanging out with some friends in an art hole on Ave A (first street of Alphabet City). Hobo walks up to us, we tell him to fuck off.
12:28 <@timoguin> I have a hobo story!
12:28 <@aestetix> Then he clutches his chest, asks us to call 9-11 for him. Has needle marks all over his arms, we're like, ok, shit we'll call you an ambulance.
12:28 <@aestetix> Paramedics roll up about 10 minutes later. They greet the guy, he gets into the ambulance.
12:29 <@aestetix> Turns out he has no friends and lives on the streets, and the only company he ever has is when he gets people to call 9-11 for him.
12:29 <@aestetix> No real medical condition, save for being a worthless junky sucking up my tax dollars.
12:31 <@timoguin> Good story
12:33 <@aestetix> timoguin: that kind of shit happens to me all the time.
12:33 <@aestetix> Ask me about HOPE sometime. ;)
12:33 <@Dolemite> So you got socially engineered by a homeless crack head.
12:34 -!- scribbles [n=stephen@c-76-111-63-29.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:34 <@aestetix> I made a simple phone call. That's not social engineering.
12:34 <@aestetix> Social engineering is using the system to gain some glimpse of friendship out of his worthless bum life.
12:35 <@Dolemite> Did he or did he not convince you that he needed something that he didn't, and as a result, you gave it to him?
12:35 <@Dolemite> I'm not saying you're a tard for it happening.  I'm saying, 'Welcome to the club'
12:36 <@timoguin> We came out of Logan's (or something) one time after a nash2600 meeting: me, ware, tilghman, etc.
12:36 <@timoguin> I had leftover shrimp, and a hobo was like, "Please, I'm hungry."
12:36 <@aestetix> Dolemite: sure.
12:36 <@timoguin> So I'm like, "Well here." and hand him several pieces of shrimp.
12:36 <@timoguin> "What am I supposed to do with that?" he says.
12:37 <@timoguin> "Um. You can EAT IT"
12:37 <@timoguin> End of story.
12:37 <@sdodson> If it'd had happened to Palin we'd be making fun of her.
12:37 <@Drag0n> sso, when you moving to alaska sdodson?
12:38 <@sdodson> Drag0n: I was going to do that but I ended up in NC.
12:38 <@sdodson> I wanted to go to school in Fairbanks.
12:39 <@Drag0n> well, im sure sara's looking for help on her 2012 campain crew
12:39 <@Dolemite> she's got the wardrobe already!
12:39 <@sdodson> Drag0n: I'm not interested in helping Palin.
12:39 <@sdodson> Drag0n: I am however interested in your ability to critically analyze a situation and your ability to grasp reality.
12:40 <@rhia> Dolemite: it will be TWO years outdated by then!
12:40 <@aestetix> Wow.
12:40 <@aestetix> The people in #2600 are worthless today.
12:40 <@Drag0n> well, your already doing the job, why not get payed for it
12:40 <@sdodson> aestetix: s/ today//
12:40 <@Dolemite> rhia : Nah, the ultra conservatives hate change too much for it to go out of style in 2 years
12:41 <@aestetix> sdodson: on 2600net, there's just some stuff going on that is particularly.... repulsive.
12:41 <@aestetix> It's just someone bringing outside social politics into the channel.
12:44 <@sdodson> aestetix: ZOMG RDRAMA?!
12:45 <@Dolemite> Oh noez!  That's just like #se2600!
12:45 <@sdodson> Dolemite: you're such an elitest
12:50 <@Dolemite> sdodson : A response to you is so beneath me.
12:50 <@Dolemite> ha!
12:50 -!- Catonic [n=catonic@60-24.9-67.bham.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:57 <@Corydon76-dig> Dolemite: are you bringing blank ballots tonight?
12:59 <@Dolemite> I can
12:59 <@Dolemite> I thought we'd just make all the candidates log in to WoW and /roll for the job
12:59 <@Dolemite> lol
12:59 <@aestetix> lollemite
13:10 <@Drag0n> its an epic quest for a candidate
13:11 <@Dolemite> And if Corydon runs for office, it may be an Epic Mount.
13:17 <@Corydon76-dig> Dolemite: of course I'm running for office.  The question is, which office will I win, if any
13:17 <@Dolemite> I know there's going to be an opening for a new Sexetary.
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13:20 <@sdodson> Dolemite: HIGH FIVE MY BROTHA?!
13:21  * Dolemite high fives sdodson
13:21 -!- sdodson changed the topic of #se2600 to: Vote for sdodson!
13:21 <@Dolemite> sdodson : You have my vote.  die!!!
13:21 <@Drag0n> corydon: sgt of arms?
13:23 <@Corydon76-dig> Dolemite: you're retiring from secretary for another run at president?
13:24 <@Dolemite> Uh, no, I'm getting out of it altogether
13:24 <@Corydon76-dig> Awww
13:24 <@aestetix> Can I run as a green party candidate?
13:24 <@Corydon76-dig> You can't run, period.
13:25 -!- C-P [n=HappyDan@ip65-46-14-94.z14-46-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:25  * Corydon76-dig wonders if we can get TieFighter to be secretary
13:28 -!- Shadow404 changed the topic of #se2600 to: vote for sdodson and diaf
13:29 <@Shadow404> Corydon76-dig: does he fit the requirements for a good canidate for tha position. i guess you would no better than anyone
13:31 <@Shadow404> wow, my grammar is worse than normal
13:32 <@rhia> well, nash local helps for making the meetings
13:33 <@Corydon76-dig> Shadow404: you mean in terms of keeping track of who attends meetings?
13:33 <@Corydon76-dig> Yes, he would be one of the prime candidates
13:34 <@Mirage> Just don't go doing any 'Mirage' namedropping
13:35 <@Corydon76-dig> Mirage would also be a prime candidate for office, as well as LadyMerlin
13:35 <@Corydon76-dig> or someninja
13:35 <@Mirage> Mirage has absolutely no desire to run for an office
13:36 <@Corydon76-dig> Mirage: what about secretary?  Dol's current office
13:36 <@Corydon76-dig> Take minutes, preside over votes.
13:36 <@Mirage> No..not interested.
13:37 <@Corydon76-dig> The issue is that with people moving out of office and the director requirement, we have a limited pool from which to draw officers
13:41 <@Lissa> heh
13:41 <@Lissa> that was short and sweet.
13:46 <@brimstone> ug, takes forever to fsck a 1T drive, even at 122MB/s
13:50 <@Dagmar> *kof*journaling*kof*
13:51 <@brimstone> i had to turn journaling off :/
13:52 <@brimstone> resize2fs and all
13:59 <@Dolemite> Mirage : Answer your text messages, be0tch!
14:00 <@Dolemite> Mirage : What time do you get out of class and will you be at the Corner Pub?
14:00 <@Mirage> Dolemite: If you mean msn..my pigin client is hosed on the fucked up network here in class
14:01 <@Mirage> Dolemite: Hopefully class will be out at 3:30-4pm..
14:01 <@Dolemite> no, your cell phone
14:01 <@Dolemite> Corydon76-dig : I believe that only the President is required to have been a director, but I could be wrong
14:01 <@Mirage> It's on silent, so I didn't hear it
14:02 <@Corydon76-dig> Dolemite: Unfortunately, it's not phrased that way.
14:02 <@Dagmar> [quote][b]How would you deal with these hypothetical situations? WINNERS GET COOKIES![/b]
14:02 <@Dagmar> 1. You're on a mining run through the basin, when you come across a warrior standing on top of a rare node, fighting off two mobs.[/quote]Let him have it.  I'll see more rare nodes, and he's clearly going through some trouble to get the thing.
14:02 <@Dagmar> [quote]2. You're attempting to complete the rare-spawns achievement, and you've noticed a hunter waiting in the spawn area for over an hour. You assume he's there to tame the rare spawn. As you're passing, the spawn appears.[/quote]I'd give him about 15 seconds to notice it and make a move.  If he's wandered AFK, that's his mistake.
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14:03 <@Lissa> lol
14:03 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Dagmar] by ChanServ
14:03 <@Lissa> dagmar wins!
14:03 <@Lissa> :D
14:03 <@Dagmar> !@#$!@$
14:03 <@Dagmar> Fucking windows
14:03 <@Dagmar> Roaming profiles has fucked me yet again
14:03 <@Mirage> Dagmar
14:03 <@Drag0n> dont fuck windows, the glass is too sharp
14:04 <@Mirage> is this for a PvP server, or a carebear server?
14:04 <@Dagmar> Neither.
14:04 <@Dagmar> ...although when I scribbled that up for them I made notes about what I'd do on either
14:04 <@Dolemite> Mirage : Obviously carebear, as faction was not mentioned in either scenario.
14:05 <@Mirage> Well, 1. if the warrior is on the same side..let'em have it..otherwise, steal that shit.
14:05 <@Mirage> 2. ditto
14:05 <@Dolemite> Yeah, if they're alliance, monitor their health and attack when they get low enough to easily gank them, then take the node.
14:06 <@Dolemite> If they're horde, wave to 'em and keep looking for another node
14:07 <@Dagmar> This is why we think you're all assholes
14:08 <@Dolemite> It's not like the Alliance treat the Horde any differently
14:08 <@Mirage> On a PvP server, the answer to both is: Let them get beat up a little..gank them, then steal the spawn
14:08 <@Drag0n> you know, its a lot easier in eve, NBSI
14:08 <@Drag0n> not blue...shoot it
14:09 <@Dagmar> Dolemite: Your'e making that argument to an Alliance player who does treat them differently.
14:09 <@Dagmar> You fail.
14:09 <@Dolemite> You're on a Care Bear server, though
14:09 <@Dolemite> On a PvP server, it's different
14:11 <@Dagmar> Exactly.  I'm not on an asshole server.
14:11 <@Dolemite> Awww, Dagmar needs a *hug*.
14:11 <@aestetix> hahhahaha
14:11 <@Mirage> But you'd fit in so nicely..=P
14:12 <@aestetix> Dagmar: why not, are your ports too loose to hold the connectors?
14:12 <@Dagmar> I've got better things to do with my time than provide amusement for a bunch of malcontents who have no sense of honor.
14:12 <@Dagmar> You want me on a PvP server, get them to make one that's permadeath.
14:12 <@Dolemite> Uh, oh, he's going to start talking in Klingon, next.
14:12 <@Mirage> Like the group of 5 alliance that were ganking everyone as they landed at a FP in Borean Tundra a couple nights ago?
14:13 < vyrus001> aestetix: yo u still in nyc?
14:13 <@Dagmar> Mirage: Probably had something to do with the Horde who ganked a few of them just ten minutes prior
14:13 <@aestetix> vyrus001: yes
14:13 < vyrus001> so any of you nashvileites anime fans?
14:13 <@Dolemite> Mirage : You mean last night.  And several nights last week.  etc.
14:13 <@Mirage> A shaman and I cleared them out a couple times, but they just kept coming back as soon as we'd stop guarding the FP
14:13 < vyrus001> aestetix: heh so apperently one of my dads photos is now a bilbord off maddison and 23rd(ish)
14:13 <@Dagmar> Gosh.  Boohoo.
14:13 <@aestetix> oh cool
14:13 <@oddball> not a fan of PvP... but I did enjoy killing the tank that tried to gank my defender... Got to tell him "ha ha! you got killed by a healer!"
14:13 <@Dolemite> vyrus001 : Yes, but don't ever ask to see some of their collections.  I'm sure there's plenty of Yaori in there.
14:13 -!- Catonic [n=catonic@60-24.9-67.bham.res.rr.com] has joined #se2600
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14:14 <@aestetix> Catonic: how's she doing?
14:14 < vyrus001> Dolemite: im immune, ive worked at multiple animecons for 6+ years
14:14 <@oddball> (in CoH, not world of walking)
14:14 <@Catonic> meh?
14:14 < vyrus001> Dolemite: im asking because i wana find ppl who have contacts at http://www.mtac.net/
14:14 < vyrus001> im MASSIVELY intrugied by this -> http://www.mtac.net/battle.shtml
14:14 <@Dolemite> What do you want to know?  I know two of the guys that run it.
14:15 < vyrus001> ghaha epic
14:15 < vyrus001> ok what do you know of there battle of the bands compitition
14:15 <@Dolemite> I know nothing of it.
14:15 <@oddball> I know a few of those folks, and one of the guys that has volunteered since near the begining is in my D&D game
14:15 <@Dolemite> I just know two contacts.
14:15 <@oddball> no nothing about that though... sorry
14:16 < vyrus001> well maby i can contact them through your ppl or somthin... ya see
14:16 <@oddball> right
14:16 <@Dolemite> Besides, it's their first annual contest...  so nobody other than the organizers really know anything about it
14:16 < vyrus001> me and a friend invented the first ever botb at an anime con at anime expo 3 years ago
14:16 < vyrus001> so im curious if this is just spontanious or if we have spawned some compitition :D
14:17 < vyrus001> beacuse there exactly a month before us and almost the same contest exactly
14:17 <@Dolemite> just contact 'em
14:17 <@oddball> They should be pretty responsive through the website, or the MTAC live journal group
14:17 < vyrus001> eww live journal
14:17 <@Dolemite> but it's not like you're the first to have a battle of the bands...  that's been going on for decades
14:17 < vyrus001> ofcourse
14:17 <@oddball> Hey, it's not MySpace
14:17 < vyrus001> but its not super promonent in anime as far as i know
14:17 < vyrus001> oddball: lol this is true
14:18 <@Dolemite> vyrus001 : Neither is heterosexual intercourse, but it does happen
14:18 < vyrus001> lol
14:19 <@Dolemite> http://www.offworld.com/2008/12/video-reallife-mario-kart.html
14:23 <@Catonic> The difference between ware and aestetix is about 100 IQ points.
14:23 <@Mirage> So who's negative then?
14:23 <@Dolemite> They both are
14:23 <@Catonic> Mirage: is that really a question that needs to be asked?
14:24 <@Mirage> Of course ware isn't really that stupid..it's just that using a keyboard filters out 90% or more of his IQ
14:24 <@Catonic> I think that ware's argumentative style lacks imagination and reasoning
14:25 <@Catonic> Reasoning people often don't resort to ad hominem attacks against the other speaker, unless the other speaker is a political candiate
14:25 <@Dagmar> ARE YOU FUCKING HIGH?
14:26 <@Dagmar> This is the Internet.  Ad Hominems are more common than "How ya doin'?"
14:26 <@Catonic> As a product of his environment, I believe that he's learned a bit from the conservative parts of society, i.e.: fundamental christians.
14:27 <@Catonic> Fundies are known for at least one feature: they don't understand how "facts" work.
14:27 <@Catonic> Dagmar: Thank you for proving your own point.
14:27 < Mercster> ...
14:27 < eryc> shutup fagboy
14:28  * Catonic woke up on the wrong side of the dumpster apparently.
14:28 <@Dagmar> Catonic: Seriously.
14:29 <@Catonic> seriously, ware's arguments lack imagination.
14:29 <@Dagmar> Interesting.  No Playstation email today
14:29 <@Catonic> aestetix jabs with a rapier, ware just slings poo.
14:29  * Mercster rapiers Catonic 
14:29 <@Dagmar> Maybe that means they'll finally release fucking Home
14:30 < Mercster> Dagmar: is that the second life type thing?
14:30 <@Dagmar> Yeah
14:30 < Mercster> damn
14:30 < Mercster> thought that was out already
14:30 <@Dagmar> As a reward for them making me wait this long to get ahold of it, I'm just going to let them "find out on their own" when I figure out the ways to abuse it
14:31 <@Dagmar> No beta access == find your own damn bugs
14:31 < Mercster> penis avatars FTW
14:31 <@Dagmar> Oh I will do worse
14:31 < Mercster> balls avatars?
14:31 <@Dagmar> I already broke LittleBigPlanet a couple different ways
14:31 < Mercster> heh
14:31 -!- vaneck [n=vaneck@255114127.ecsis.net] has left #se2600 ["Konversation terminated!"]
14:32 < critch> Dagmar: Broke it, or made yourself stuck?
14:32 <@Dagmar> Broke it.  As in crashes the other people.
14:32 < critch> hmm, cool
14:33 <@Dagmar> Certain objects, once attached to your poppet, cause great problems
14:33 < critch> heh, cool.
14:34 <@Dagmar> I kinda feel bad messing with LBP because ther'es kids playin
14:34  * Lissa pokes critch 
14:34 <@Shadow404> there needs to be a second life based world, using the gary's mod engine (steam), that would rock
14:34 <@Dolemite> Don't kid yourself, Dagmar, that *is* the appeal for you.
14:34 < critch> I have so far enjoyed that game. It is interesting to see how you could build those story levels after having taken the tutorials.
14:34  * critch hugs Lissa 
14:35  * Lissa hugs
14:35 <@Lissa> wassup homeslice?
14:35 <@Dagmar> Nah, the game is so cute you should have to brush your teeth afterwards
14:35 < critch> struglling to get work done before I run home
14:35 <@Lissa> ditto.
14:35 <@Lissa> heh
14:35 <@Lissa> i think i'm going to put up christmas crap tonight
14:35 <@Lissa> i've lived in my house for erm...about 7 years now and I've never done it before.  (even though I keep saying I'm going to)
14:36 < critch> Dagmar:my GF has cartoon turretts occasionally and just loves watching me play that game.
14:36 <@Catonic> Lissa: I think I'm going to start cleaning the Christmas Sniper Rifle.
14:36 <@Lissa> hehe
14:36 <@Catonic> gotta cut down on the number of hungry homeless mouths to feed.
14:36 <@Lissa> Catonic: cute.  can I borrow it to take out my neighbors flood lights?
14:36 < critch> Lissa: saw where a friend of mines Dad was on the news with his lighting setup.
14:36 <@Dagmar> critch: Campy as it may be, I just can't bring myself to take the cape off my poppet
14:37 <@Lissa> critch: that amazing huh?
14:37 < critch> hmm, I don't think I found a cape yet.
14:37 < critch> Lissa: nah, just one of the ones putting up new LED lights and using some solar panels to power some of it.
14:38 <@oddball> Lissa: you still need to try out my Beretta Cx4 carbine
14:38 <@Dagmar> critch: It's red and it flaps in the wind, and it's made of awesome
14:38 <@Lissa> ooooo..i wanna play!
14:38 -!- MudFlap [n=MudFlap@66.64.202.66.nw.nuvox.net] has quit []
14:38 < critch> gotta run to my colo to check on data cables.
14:38 <@Lissa> kk
14:38 <@Dolemite> Damn, today's xkcd hits home with so many of us, I'm sure
14:39 <@Catonic> Lissa: sure, it's unregistered. Txt me and we'll set something up. Can you tell if you're being followed?
14:39 <@Lissa> :D
14:39 <@sdodson> eryc: ohhai how much of this is well founded argument? http://blogs.sun.com/GeorgeTrujillo/entry/advantages_of_solaris_and_opensolaris
14:39 <@Lissa> I had some dude in an unmarked car checking my mail about 2 years ago
14:39 <@sdodson> Lissa: that was me, my bad
14:40 <@sdodson> There's a cop that cruises through my neighborhood each night around 11pm. Last night he stopped byhind my car for about 5 minutes. I bet he was running my plates to see if it was registered to that address cause no one else lives on that street yet.
14:41 <@Dagmar> http://failblog.org/2008/12/04/bell-ringer-fail/ <-- wrong, so wrong
14:42 <@sdodson> s/http:\/\/failblog.org\/2008\/12\/04\/bell-ringer-fail\/ //
14:43 <@Catonic> Dolemite: I used to accept that view, then I learned better and decided to become the asshole.
14:44 < Mercster> Dolemite: didnt you attend the pimp seminar at phreaknic?
14:45 <@Dolemite> Hell, I *am* the pimp seminar
14:49 <@nachoguy> sdodson, so you bought that place?  congrats!
14:49 <@Neoteric> Dolemite: i would like to take your class on distance learning
14:50 <@Catonic> Dolemite: remind me how well that's working for you.
14:50 <@Dolemite> Neoteric : I'm sorry, that is not a current offering
14:50 <@Dolemite> Catonic : It's working out splendidly for me.
14:51 <@Catonic> Dolemite: did you marry one of your whores?
14:51 <@Dolemite> Step 1 : Never call 'em a whore
14:52 < Mercster> not to their face anyway
14:52 <@Dolemite> Step 2 : Don't you ever refer to my wife as a whore.  I won't have to fuck you up because she sure as hell will.
14:53 <@Catonic> First, I'm not calling your wife a whore.
14:53 <@Neoteric> oh dear god.. there's a mercster
14:53 < Mercster> OH YES YOU ARE
14:53  * Mercster touches Neoteric 
14:53 <@Neoteric> don't touch me
14:54 <@Catonic> Mercster: stop, you'll spread the asian bird flu
14:54 < Mercster> ive already caught a lot worse from Neoteric
14:54 <@Dolemite> Neoteric : Point to the place on Elmo where Mercster touched you
14:54 < Mercster> my crotch looks like mongolion bbq
14:54 <@Catonic> Dolemite: Second, what pimp gets married
14:54 <@Catonic> Mercster: they have surgery to fix that.
14:55 <@Dolemite> Catonic : Plenty of them do.  A pimp isn't the same thing as a bachelor.
14:55 <@Dolemite> anywho, time for a meeting
14:55 <@aestetix> http://digg.com/security/How_will_surveillance_feel_in_ten_years
14:55 <@aestetix> Please digg it up
14:55 <@nachoguy> aestetix, I thought you hated digg
14:56 <@aestetix> I do.
14:56 <@aestetix> But we need publicity.
14:56 < Mercster> mmmm my mom is bringing me subway
14:56 < Mercster> im so excited
14:57 <@Neoteric> Catonic: retiring pimps marry typically marry their top bitch.
14:57 <@sdodson> nachoguy: thanks!
14:59 <@Catonic> Dolemite: now I'm calling your wife a whore, but I think that Neoteric just did.
14:59 < Mercster> pimps have a home bitch, and then their stable
14:59 <@rhia> Catonic: so, NOW you are but your weren't earlier?
15:00 < Mercster> burn
15:01 < Mercster> Dolemite, go get your wife <@Catonic> Dolemite: now I'm calling your wife a whore
15:01 <@Catonic> rhia: the really sad part is that my ADD just kicked in and I got bored with the conversation.
15:03 <@aestetix> Mercster: that would be insulting coming from anyone else.
15:03 <@Catonic> anyway, my point overall is that I find Dolemite's self-declaration as a pimp to be farcical at best.
15:03 <@aestetix> You know. A non-virgin would have phrased that as "Dolemite calls himself a pimp? that boy is full of shit"
15:04 <@Catonic> I'm thinking about moving to SF. Quick, everyone accuse me of having switched teams!
15:04 -!- Merc [n=merc@c-76-114-87-115.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
15:05 -!- Merc is now known as Mercster0
15:09 <@Catonic> too easy, eh?
15:09 <@Catonic> I'm in ur 4chan trollin ur scenz
15:11 <@sdodson> Catonic: No, we'd just assume you'd finally admitted what we've all known for a long time.
15:11 < Mercster0> sdodson: what are you running for?
15:14 <@brimstone> the law
15:14 <@brimstone> wait, running for, not from
15:14 < Mercster0> 16:05 -!- Topic for #se2600: vote for sdodson and diaf
15:14  * Mercster0 shrugs
15:17 <@polerin> **URK**
15:17 <@polerin> http://www.womanist-musings.com/2008/12/barbara-walters-talks-sense-to-idiocy.html
15:17 <@polerin> about 4:30 he calls himself harmless, nice, and tolerant
15:17 <@polerin> wtf
15:18 <@rhia> polerin: in his own little mind, he is
15:19 <@Catonic> http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/12-05-08-nofun/master-gamawa3.jpg
15:19 <@Dagmar> Fuck 'em
15:19 <@Catonic> Dagmar: tell me that's not the truth ^
15:19 <@Evilpig> dagmar have you been paying attention to any of the blue posts the last two weeks?
15:19 <@Dagmar> They lost me at "white male privilege".
15:19 < Mercster0> men bad
15:19 <@polerin> Dagmar: watch the video
15:20 <@Dagmar> Why
15:20 <@Evilpig> Game difficulty in Wrath of the Lich King
15:20 <@Evilpig> You have to be a little careful if you sling this around. What we dont want is for your class mechanics to hold you back if you are vying to do the best dps you can. We are not at all guaranteeing that every raid will end up with all the dps classes within 5% of each other. The biggest factor will be skill, followed by gear and then just random luck.
15:20 <@Evilpig> We know heroics and raids are a little easy right now, and we're okay with that. Consider:
15:20 <@Evilpig> * If you're 80 already, you are a relatively hardcore player. Most WoW players are not 80 yet. If it's easy for you, it's not easy for everybody. * We want more players to see the content. Naxxramas and Malygos are cool! We want people to see them. Heck, we brought Naxx back in part because so few people had seen it.
15:20 <@Evilpig>  * Very few of the peple who are saying WoW is EZ mode have done Satharion with 3 rdrakes yet. Give that a shot then get back to us. Smiley * Ulduar will be harder. It still might be do-able by more than the most elite 5% of players, but it will be a lot more challenging. And we'll continue to have "hard modes" that are even more challenging. We'll make sure some of these challenges offer appropriate rewards.
15:20 <@Evilpig>  * We knew we were essing with class balance quite a bit, so it's nice tbhat things are a little easier right now. It gives the players time to learn the new spells and abilities and gives us a chance to see how things really work out in the actual game with thousands of people beating on the mechanics. We'll continue to make adjustments as necessary. It's an MMO. Things change over time. (Source)
15:20 <@Evilpig> that
15:20 <@Dagmar> You don't get to argue against sexism using sexist terms of your own.
15:20 <@polerin> because it's really crazy what he is saying
15:20 <@polerin> jeesus pig flood a little bit more?
15:20 <@sdodson> Mercster0: It doesn't matteer, just vote for me, okay?
15:20 < Mercster0> sdodson: sure
15:20 <@Dagmar> 1. It's Rush Limbaugh
15:21 <@Dagmar> 2. There is no need for 2.
15:21 <@polerin> heh
15:21 <@Dagmar> If you've got a burning need to be offended, he's handy to have around.
15:21 <@polerin> Dagmar: by the way, "white male privilige" isn't actually a sexist term.  It's a description of the benifits being white and male happen to confer apon you in society.
15:22 <@Dagmar> It's sexist *and* racist.
15:22 <@polerin> and if you don't think that actually true, take the city paper
15:22 <@polerin> count the number of faces in it
15:22 <@polerin> for a week
15:22 <@polerin> mark down how many women, how many minorities.
15:22 <@Dagmar> Holy shit there's white people
15:22 < Mercster0> OBAMANATION!
15:22 <@polerin> seriously
15:22 <@polerin> your mocking me without even looking
15:22 <@Dagmar> polerin: By that standard, NAACP is racist as fuck
15:22 <@polerin> just do it for a week.  see what the numbers are
15:23 < Mercster0> once you go white, you'll say "aiiiight!"
15:23 <@Lissa> yay...home time
15:23 <@rhia> polerin: i'll disagree with her abuse of the word "meritocracy"
15:23 <@polerin> Dagmar: do it for EVERY newspaper out there
15:23 <@Dagmar> Why
15:23 <@Dagmar> Whyy should I give a flying fuck
15:23 <@Dagmar> \WHY
15:23 < Mercster0> Dagmar: issa OUTRAGE
15:23 <@Dagmar> \Stop going out of your way to get hurt feelings
15:23 <@polerin> you don't have to, just don't say it's false if you're not willing to actually ... yahknow... look
15:23 <@Dagmar> Just because a bunch of fucking white males work somewhere DOESN'T MEAN SHIT by itself
15:23  * polerin hugs lissa
15:24 <@polerin> Dagmar: tell you what.
15:24 <@Lissa> <3
15:24 <@Dagmar> If it does, then the NAACP is the worst bunch of racist fuckers since the KKK.
15:24 <@Lissa> see you in a bit
15:24 <@polerin> do it for three days
15:24 <@Dagmar> Your logic is circular and you need to get a grip on that.
15:24 <@polerin> no
15:24 <@polerin> It's not circular
15:24 <@Dagmar> UNtil you do, you will ALWAYS be a victim.
15:24 <@polerin> your flying completely off the wall
15:24 <@Dagmar> *ALWAYS*
15:24 <@polerin> I'm not being a victim.
15:24 <@polerin> now YOU are being presumptious
15:24 <@polerin> I'm not a victim of jack shit
15:25 <@juice> nothing like walking out of your house and your car not there
15:25 <@Dagmar> Then why does it bother you that a man known for being a dipshit was once again a dipshit?
15:25 <@Dagmar> It's OLD news.
15:25 <@juice> still waiting for the police to show up
15:25 <@polerin> I have to deal with sexism, that's true enough.  Trust me, I have, and people have come up to me and admitted it to me.
15:25 <@polerin> actually
15:25 <@rhia> juice: bwah??
15:25 <@juice> yeah someone stole my car
15:25 <@Catonic> http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/12-05-08-nofun/Pahilla-the-Hun1.jpg <- made me laugh
15:25 <@polerin> I'm not bothered by him, I find his audacity flabbergasting
15:25 <@polerin> I just like to see him called on his bullshit
15:25 < Mercster0> oh i thot of a good one
15:25 < Mercster0> "once you go mexican, you'll never want sexagain"
15:26 < Mercster0> haha, see, it rhymes
15:26 <@scoil> EHLO AND WELCOEM TO MY HOMEPAEG
15:26 <@Dagmar> But you'll try and float that pointless argument about white male priviledge at me?
15:26 <@Dagmar> BEING WHITE AND MALE HASN'T GOTTEN ME SHIT.
15:26 <@polerin> Dagmar: it's not pointless, you just don't care to see the point
15:26 <@rhia> juice: damn .... that sux
15:26 <@polerin> and you're yelling
15:26 <@polerin> in irc.
15:26 <@juice> yes
15:26 <@Dagmar> ...other than a bunch of shit from RACISTS who want to behave as if all white men hate them
15:26 <@Dagmar> No, I see the point.
15:26 <@Dagmar> It's bullshit.
15:26 <@Dagmar> Complete and utter bullshit.
15:27 < Mercster0> udder cowshit
15:27 <@Dagmar> It's like saying GOLF COURSES are necessarily racist.
15:27 -!- aestetix changed the topic of #se2600 to: vote for sdodson and diaf | http://digg.com/security/How_will_surveillance_feel_in_ten_years
15:27 < Mercster0> tiger tiger woods yall
15:27 <@Dagmar> It's never occured to anyone that MAYBE, just MAYBE, it's mainly white men who like to play golf?
15:27 <@polerin> then why last time I did the count (before I ever heard the term "privilige" used in that manner btw) was there only 3 or 4 faces out of the 50 or 60 pictured in the paper that were minorities?
15:27 <@polerin> and why were they all in the sports section
15:27 <@polerin> not just one day
15:27 < Mercster0> haha
15:27 <@polerin> not just one week
15:27 <@polerin> I did it for a month
15:28 <@polerin> and very rarely did I ever count over 5
15:28 < Mercster0> o/~ raaaaaciiiist
15:28 <@Dagmar> polerin: Because MAYBE, just MAYBE, it's mainly white people who want to work there or give a crap about the things that paper focuses on
15:28 <@sdodson> you assholes talk too much for me to keep up with while i'm at work.
15:28 < Mercster0> sdodson: i wouldnt suggest keeping up
15:28 <@sdodson> don't you guys have day jobs?
15:28 <@Dagmar> Just because there's a bunch of white people somewhere DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE CHASING AWAY THE MINORITIES
15:28 <@polerin> Dagmar: and that's not racist?
15:28 <@Dagmar> It might well mean that a bunch of white people happened to be in one place
15:28 <@Dagmar> No, it's NOT fucking racist.
15:28 <@polerin> Dagmar: focusing only on your own race or the perceived concerns of your own race is.. uh...  ... racist?
15:28 < Mercster0> a lynch mob!
15:29 <@Dagmar> polerin: Then the NAACP is racist as fuck
15:29 <@Catonic> scoil: is scoil short for shitcoil?
15:29 <@Catonic> juice: that's awesome. Was it worth anything?
15:29 <@polerin> Dagmar: considering it's an organization that is dedicated to the concerns of colored people yeah a bit, but you know what?  Call me when they dominate the new york times.
15:30 <@Dagmar> That's an excuse
15:30 <@polerin> no
15:30 <@Dagmar> It's JUST an excuse.
15:30 <@polerin> it's not
15:30 <@Dagmar> Yes, it is.
15:30 < Mercster0> focusing mainly on one's race isnt "racist" for some definitions of the word...it's certainly racial
15:30 <@Dagmar> You're basically saying that since this minority group doesn't dominate some field or other, that it's because of racism on the part of whoever is dominating.
15:30 <@polerin> your saying that a mainstream media outlet that purports to represent an entire city can serve a small percentage of it's population based on race
15:30 <@rhia> http://zoethe.livejournal.com/630520.html  dead lawn flamingos
15:30 <@Shadow404> scoil: http://bigblue.homeftp.net/ehlo.html
15:30 <@polerin> and that it's worse that the NAACP works to point out systemic racism in the US?
15:30 <@Dagmar> Oh, and now it's a *small* percentage
15:30 <@Dagmar> Guess fucking what
15:31 <@Dagmar> If they're a minority, *then* they're a small percentage.
15:31 <@polerin> Dagmar: White. Male. Majority.  Count it your own damn self
15:31 < Mercster0> lol
15:31 <@Dagmar> You dont' get to call white people an oppressor and a "small portion of the population" at the same time.
15:31 < Mercster0> dude did my ghost go away yet
15:31 <@Dagmar> Get your fucking logic straight
15:31 <@polerin> Mercster0: ...  ghost it
15:31 < Mercster0> dunno how
15:31 <@polerin> Dagmar: actually yes, you do if you sit down and work it out
15:32 <@polerin> instead of being a reactionary
15:32 <@polerin> and refusing to even look at it
15:32 <@Dagmar> How about you stop being a reactionary
15:32 <@Dagmar> White males are a minority.
15:32 <@Dagmar> Except we don't whine
15:32 <@polerin> because you hold all the power :)
15:32 <@Dagmar> We're not allowed to say SHIT about it, in fact.
15:32 < Mercster0> mmmm powar
15:32 <@Catonic> http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/11-21-08-retro/MutantBlue8.jpg <- dc0de
15:32 <@Dagmar> WHAT FUCKING POWER EXACTLY DO I HOLD AGAIN?
15:32 <@polerin> oh yes, the oppressed white male
15:32 < Mercster0> polerin: how do i ghost it?
15:32 <@polerin> heh
15:32 <@polerin> Mercster0: /msg nickserv help
15:32 <@polerin> read
15:33 <@Dagmar> Can we have a Miss White Middle Tennessee pageant?
15:33 <@Dagmar> NO.
15:33 < Mercster0> Dagmar: probably
15:33 <@Dagmar> Can white people even for a moment be vocally proud to be white?
15:33 <@Dagmar> NO.
15:33 < Mercster0> people would cry, tho
15:33 < Mercster0> im proud to be white
15:33 < Mercster0> everyone should be proud to be who they are
15:33 < Mercster0> that seems obvious
15:33 <@Catonic> Dagmar: we have those.
15:33 <@Dagmar> Mercster: I got news for you, flyers saying such a thing is going to be held can just about start *riots* down in Murfreesboro
15:33 <@rhia> hell, there are times i'm not proud to be HUMAN ....
15:34 <@polerin> Dagmar: you really want to get into that?  Even among african american pagent winners, I doubt you'll find anyone that is hugely dark, because the beauty standards of our culture don't really include a space for darker skinned women.
15:34 <@Catonic> Then again the whole little miss phenomenon scares me. It's like pedosoup waiting to happen
15:34 -!- Mercster [n=merc@c-76-114-87-115.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
15:34 < Mercster0> polerin: thanks
15:34 -!- Mercster0 is now known as Mercster
15:34 <@Catonic> polerin: hot is hot, black, white, or asian
15:35 <@polerin> Dagmar: actually, you're well allowed to be proud to be white.  If youd look in that same blog, you'd read a post "why we need to talk about whiteness."   You'll dissagree with much of it, but you'll note that she's asking white people to acknowledge that you DO have a culturee
15:35 <@Dagmar> polerin: That's just so much bullshit
15:35 <@Dagmar> I know hot black girls.
15:35 < Mercster> "hugely dark"?
15:35 < Mercster> lol
15:35 <@rhia> Catonic: oddly, a rather lot of pedophiles dislike Little Miss pageants as they make the children look too "mature"
15:35 <@polerin> Dagmar: again, look in the media
15:35 <@Dagmar> Why should I look in the media?
15:35 <@Catonic> rhia: well that's a disturbing little mindfuck.
15:35 <@Dagmar> I don't need someone else to tell me what to think about beauty
15:35 <@polerin> Dagmar: also, note I said even among african american winners (or contestants)
15:36 < Mercster> rhia: i dont think it takes a pedophile to see when children are being sexualized
15:36 <@Dagmar> So now you're saying black people don't even like really black women.
15:36 <@Dagmar> Way to go.
15:36 <@polerin> you'll notice that so many of the WoC celebreties are fairly light skinned.
15:36 < Mercster> who cares?
15:36 <@Catonic> Dagmar: trophy wife, anyone?
15:36 <@polerin> Dagmar: actually, yes, it's called internalized racism
15:36 < Mercster> jeez, it's a damned beauty contest not a conspiracy
15:36 <@polerin> Dagmar: manifested in judging value by hue.
15:36 <@Dagmar> Sounds like bullshit with a fancy name to me
15:36 <@rhia> Mercster: oh, i loathe the pageants, esp the kiddie ones
15:37 <@polerin> http://www.womanist-musings.com/2008/12/huesm-no-more-paper-bag-test.html
15:37 < Mercster> in africa women with small tits are hot, they have different standards in different places. in the west, maybe we dont prefer coal black chicks
15:37 <@rhia> Mercster: just making a comment on Catonic's specific statement
15:37 < Mercster> maybe its just an unfortunate coincidence
15:37 < Mercster> rhia: ah
15:37 <@polerin> Dagmar: of course it is.  You've not had the world tell you your worthless your entire life :P
15:37 <@Dagmar> Yeah I have
15:37 < Mercster> just because things arent always fair for everyone doesnt mean it was planned
15:37 <@polerin> oh really.
15:38 <@Dagmar> Everywhere I go, I get to see people carping about how white people are all racist
15:38 < Mercster> Dagmar: you're worthless
15:38 <@Dagmar> I'm fuckin' sick of it
15:38 <@polerin> goddamnit
15:38 <@polerin> Privilige != racism
15:38 <@polerin> get your shit on straight
15:38 <@Dagmar> Take your white male priviledge and your victim mentality and go live on a fucking island somewhere
15:38 <@Catonic> I think everyone here has at one point or another, been told that.
15:38 <@polerin> simply HAVING privlige doesn't make you racist
15:38 <@polerin> it just meens you have power, and it's generally a power that you don't see.
15:38 <@polerin> because you take it as the same thing that everyone else has
15:38 <@polerin> except they don't
15:39 <@Catonic> polerin: kneel at my feed or I'll have my minions dispatch you.
15:39 <@polerin> Catonic: shut the hell upkthx :)
15:39 <@polerin> Dagmar: why do you keep saying I have a victim mentality?
15:39 <@Catonic> seriously, if you grow up in a kingdom, do you know racism from privilege?
15:39 <@polerin> Dagmar: when have I ever claimed that.?
15:39 <@polerin> Catonic: privilige comes in different flavors, one of those is class.
15:40 <@polerin> ;p
15:40 < Mercster> ive got class
15:40 <@polerin> another is vanella fudge
15:40 <@polerin> another is being able to speel.
15:40 <@polerin> Dagmar: seriously, where am I claiming victimhood?
15:41 <@polerin> Dagmar: All I'm saying is that people don't lock their car doors you walk by just because you're a white guy.
15:41 < Mercster> ?
15:42 <@polerin> Dagmar: that you've got just as many good portrayals of people who fit your general profile as bad ones.
15:42 <@scoil> yes Catonic as what im feeling like right no
15:42 < Mercster> polerin: most of your talking points are tired stereotypes from 1983
15:42 <@scoil> w
15:42 <@polerin> Mercster: actually ... not so much.  I've seen people do that inside of the past few years
15:42 <@polerin> try again
15:43 <@polerin> Mercster: and while the positive representation of PoC is growing, it's far from anywhere equivilent to either their relitive percentage of the population or the negative portrayals of the same groups.
15:44 < Mercster> PoC? rofl
15:44 <@polerin> You want I should type out "People of color" every time?  Black people aren't the only minority you know :P
15:44 < Mercster> 'darkies' is the preferred term, please
15:44 <@Shadow404> chocolates
15:44 < Mercster> also, i have color
15:44 <@polerin> aaaaaaand there we go
15:44 < Mercster> i dont know anyone who doesnt have color, besides an albino
15:45 <@polerin> right, back to code now
15:45 <@polerin> :P
15:45 < Mercster> polerin: all im saying is, you may have points here and there, but you're going to have to adopt some langage outside of a late 80s oprah episode
15:45 <@polerin> once the literal racist jokes come out, it's not a discussion any more
15:45 < Mercster> it just doesnt cilck with anyone
15:45 <@polerin> Mercster: such as what for example?
15:46 < Mercster> s/cilck/click
15:46 < Mercster> "THERE ARENT ENOUGH BLACK BEAUTY PAGEANT WINNERS"
15:46 < Mercster> "STOP LOCKING YOUR DOORS"
15:46 <@polerin> and I'm sorry if it doesn't click, that doesn't make any less true
15:46 < Mercster> rofl
15:47 < Mercster> next it'll be, when's there gonna be a black president WAIT A MINUTE
15:47 <@polerin> actually, I didn't say that there were no black beauty pagent winners.  That whole argument was in reference to the same things that people have been saying for years, this time talking about "miss white usa" or whatever pagent name he came up with
15:47 <@polerin> Mercster: and I'm glad for that.  Didn't vote for him on account of it, but it does make me happy that we've reached that point
15:47 <@polerin> doesn't meen that there isn't still racism all over the damn place
15:47 < Mercster> it's just tired
15:48 <@polerin> it's BEEN tired. and it'll keep being tiring untill it's gone
15:48 <@polerin> because it's still. there.
15:48 < Mercster> calling people racists cuz they dont think black ppl are attractive in pageants doesnt get you, or black people, anywhere
15:48 <@polerin> just because you've heard it before doesn't meen it's not true
15:48 < Mercster> again, you're confusing "fair" with "hatred"
15:48 <@polerin> you missed the whole point of that argument
15:49 < Mercster> if you'd made a salient one, id be able to address it
15:49 < Mercster> also, "it" will always be there, people will always be different, people will always have preferences and prejudices
15:49 < Mercster> there are important ones, and not important ones
15:49 -!- rattle [n=rattle@tor/regular/rattle] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:49 < Mercster> maybe you're waiting for the greys to come down and make us all a human family of alien babies with no differences
15:50 <@Dagmar> The problem, polerin, is very simple.  You simply refuse to see that there's PLENTY of racism and sexism around, and that white males have long since stopped being the primary source of it.
15:50 <@polerin> it was actually about the fact that our cultural standards of beauty dole out more demerits the further the woman is from european standards
15:50 <@Dagmar> \...however, it's practically been institutionalized that white males get to be the *victim* of it, in the name of "fighting" racism.
15:50 <@polerin> Dagmar: Why, because I call white males on their shit?
15:50 < Mercster> "their shit"
15:50 <@polerin> Dagmar: oh your so vicitmized
15:50 <@Dagmar> No, because you're calling white males who have nothing to do with said shit, on said shit
15:50 <@Dagmar> That's what makes you a victim.
15:51 <@Dagmar> Victim mentality.
15:51 < Mercster> noone likes a whiner
15:51 <@polerin> ...
15:51 <@polerin> that's not a victim mentality
15:51 <@Dagmar> I.e., FINDING a reason to decide you're being persecuted, even when you're not.
15:51 <@polerin> that's possibly gulit by association, but that's not making me a victim of shit
15:51 <@Dolemite> Time for pre-meeting @ Corner Pub
15:51 <@Dolemite> 2-for-1 w00t
15:51 <@polerin> if anyone you're the one who's trying to say "poor pitiful me, I'm this constantly attacked figure, the white male"
15:52 <@sdodson> Dolemite: yay beeeerrz
15:52 <@polerin> Dagmar: This one wasn't even about me
15:52 <@polerin> damn
15:52 < Mercster> damn d00d
15:52 <@Dagmar> Yeah when you throw some feminist crap my way, I'm going to call you on it
15:52 <@Dolemite> sdodson : That's what I'm sayin'.  Fuck this constant debate about social justice.  I just want to have a drink.
15:52 <@polerin> Dagmar: why do women still make less than men inside of the same professions then?
15:52 < Mercster> dumber JUST KIDDING
15:52 <@polerin> if you want to talk about feminist crap
15:52 <@Dagmar> Perhaps they don't ask for raises often enough
15:53 <@polerin> ...
15:53 <@polerin> heh.
15:53 <@polerin> ok
15:53 <@Dagmar> Perhaps they don't ALL fucking apply themselves in fields of science because it's not considered "feminine" and that's their fault for caving in as much as it is anyone elses
15:53 <@polerin> you know what, I'm dropping this, I've no time for it and no energy to deal with it
15:53 <@scoil> Catonic, Firefox can't find the server at jeffk.somethingawful.com.
15:53 <@polerin> Dagmar: uh read the fucking question
15:53 <@Dagmar> Perhaps there's some jackasses around who actually DON'T want to pay women an equal wage
15:53 <@polerin> Dagmar: "in the same fields"
15:54 < Mercster> who's gonna stay home with the kids?  why is childrearing/homemaking continuously ranked as of "lower importance" than making money by feminists?
15:54 <@polerin> Dagmar: and you don't benifit from that?
15:54 <@Dagmar> ...but for fuck's sake the WRONG response is to be a jacakss and blame ALL men for it
15:54 <@polerin> Dagmar: if your boss doesn't want to pay the women the same as men, that doesn't benifit you at all?
15:54 <@Dagmar> The only people who get "privlege" are the RICH
15:54 <@Dolemite> I stay home with my child when he's sick more than my wife does
15:54 <@Dagmar> Be they white, black, latino, or purple with yellow fuckin' polka dots
15:54 < Mercster> that's a moral corruption if ive ever seen it...the pressure put on women, making them feel less than (by any man OR woman) for doing the single most important job a person could possibly do, which is rear their children
15:54 <@Dolemite> that's because she's in an industry that's just looking for reasons to let people go
15:55 <@polerin> Dolemite: ... that was a completely usless comment XD
15:55 <@Dolemite> polerin : I'm not responding to you, I'm responding to Mercster
15:55 <@Drag0n> right now, ALL industries are looking for reasons
15:55 < critch> Interesting question, women are higher risk of being out for child rearing, and therefore more likely to need replacing. Replacing workers costs money. Might possibly apply.
15:55 <@polerin> Dagmar: see, you can see the privilige you don't have.
15:55 <@polerin> critch: what about women who have never had a baby?
15:55 <@Dagmar> So what
15:56 < critch> polerin: never having a baby doesn't matter, it is capability
15:56 < Mercster> polerin: nature is so sexist
15:56 <@Dagmar> I can at least see that it applies to black people, to white people, to males and females *equally*
15:56 <@polerin> Dagmar: so the issue is that you're not seeing privilige you do have, instead insiting that it doesn't exist.  You'll find the same shit if you talk to a rich person.
15:56 <@polerin> critch: so?  Women should get payed less because they can make babies?
15:56 <@Dagmar> So point out a privlegde I have, if I'm not supposedd to be able to see one
15:57 <@polerin> critch: hell, I know men who drop out of work because of having a kid
15:57 < critch> polerin: no, but it may very well play into the effect
15:57 <@Dagmar> Your argument very neatly forbids any sort of counter-argument
15:57 <@Dagmar> Very convenient, that
15:57 <@polerin> Dagmar: How about being straight.
15:57 <@Drag0n> should?, no, do? yes, unfortunetly
15:57 <@polerin> Dagmar: or able bodied?
15:57 < Mercster> mmm hot white straight women
15:57 <@Dagmar> Neither of those are privledges.
15:57 <@Dagmar> They are simple conditions.
15:57 < Mercster> "blessings"
15:57 <@polerin> the privilige is not the condition.  The privilige stems from the social impact of the condition
15:58 <@Dagmar> Being straight doesn't have anything to do with much of anything
15:58 <@polerin> you don't have to worry about weither people are going to attack you if you hold your girlfriends hand
15:58 < Mercster> Dagmar: 'cept bonin' babes
15:58 <@Dagmar> I AM NOT FUCKING MY COWORKERS, THEREFORE IT DOES NOT MATTER WHICH OF THEM I WOULD NOT BE FUCKING.
15:58 <@polerin> you don't have to worry if your employer finds out your gay and fires you
15:59 <@Dagmar> I don't hold my girlfriends hand, so that ain't a problem
15:59 < Mercster> haha
15:59 <@polerin> and why are you yelling about fucking coworkers?  I didn't say shit about them.
15:59 <@polerin> Dagmar: a stragiht person who does.
15:59 <@polerin> then
15:59 <@polerin> you have the option to do that and not worry
15:59 < Mercster> mmm coworkers
15:59 <@Dagmar> Because if you're not talking about workplace discrimination, your argument is BROKEN.
15:59 <@polerin> no
15:59 <@polerin> why?
15:59 <@polerin> that's still privilige
15:59 <@Dagmar> People have a right to choose to or not associate themselve with whoever they want, for any reason at all.
15:59 <@polerin> racism, sexism, all the *ism's exist outside of the workplace too
16:00 <@polerin> I'm not associating with someone in a grocery store who gives me shit about being gay
16:00 <@Dagmar> Acting like everyone should like gay people is about as fucking stupid as saying everyone should be gay.
16:00 <@polerin> I'm not saying they should like me
16:00 <@Dagmar> It's their private life decisions, just like it's someone's private life decision to be gay
16:00 <@Drag0n> women in business either have to sacrifice everything that makes them a woman to get ahead, or accept the position they find themselves in. this is an unfortunate situation, and this has existed for a long time, what makes it so hard to fix is, when laws are made to equilize the playing field, some take advantage of loopholes to exploit it and game the system, ruining it for all the rest
16:00 <@polerin> I'm saying I have to worry about verbal and physical abuse every time I express my caring in someone elses sight
16:00 <@Dagmar> Drag0n: ...and there's some more bullshit.
16:01 <@Dagmar> Nowhere does it say women "have to sacrifice everything that makes them a woman"
16:01 <@Drag0n> any time you have some mechanic to level the playing field, there are a minority of said group that abuse the advantage
16:01 <@Dagmar> You could turn that around and say that men have to sacrifice everything that makes them men
16:01 <@Corydon76-dig> I don't mind straight people, as long as they act gay in public.
16:01  * Mercster feels Corydon76-dig 
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16:02 <@Drag0n> it doesnt have to say it, to compete equily on a mans playing field, you have to play like a man
16:02 <@polerin> Dagmar: and no minority of white men abuse the existing power structures?
16:02 <@Dagmar> Neither point is one that can be defended without defining some seriously bigoted roles
16:02 <@Dagmar> polerin: It has nothing to do with that they're white or male
16:02 <@polerin> Dagmar: yes it does, because you were talking in reference to women
16:02 <@Dagmar> It has to do with them being rich and greedy
16:02 < Mercster> not enough black people play D&D
16:03 < Mercster> white kids are always locking black ppl out of D&D
16:03 <@polerin> Dagmar: oh of course, but the the fact they are white guys just meens they have the social advantage
16:03 < Mercster> whens the last time you saw more than one black kid in a group playing D&D
16:03 <@polerin> Dagmar: which you acknowledged by saying you have to have mechanism to level the field
16:03 <@Dagmar> Mercster: And goths are clearly a huge bunch of racsists, seeing as how there's all of four black goths I know
16:03 < Mercster> oh wait, thats not it, black kids are less frequently fuckin nerds
16:03 < Mercster> hahahaha
16:03 < Mercster> Dagmar: ;-)
16:03 <@Dagmar> Like, that's come up before in fact
16:04 < Mercster> Dagmar: it's all a conspiracy man
16:04 < Mercster> every single unfair thing in the world was plotted by someone evil
16:04 <@Drag0n> sexism and racism exist, on both sides, and in any situation, some group will have an advantage and subcontiously try to hold on to that advantage. this is a fact, it is why people group together in like groups, this is why we have only now just elected the first black president, and why no woman has obtained that role yet, or a jew, or a pagan, or any other minority, power likes to hold power
16:05 <@polerin> Dagmar: actually to be honest, it's not supprising.  It's a subculture that has derived from several different sources of white history.  In that case, there is less incentive for black people to participate, as there is no gain other than possible social pleasure.  Unlike walking down the street, which has the benifit of .. you know.. going someplace?
16:05 <@Dagmar> Bullshit.
16:05 <@Drag0n> would you give up your job to a woman with exactly the same skills and knowledge you have? no, because YOU have that job.
16:06 <@Dagmar> Complete and utter bullshit, in fact.
16:06 <@polerin> woot, lissa home, time to drop this argument and get some lurvin
16:06 <@Drag0n> as long as YOU have that job, no one else will have it
16:06 <@Dagmar> No one is "raised" to be goth, which is what that would take
16:06 <@polerin> Dagmar: ...  I was putting forward an argument which states that goths AREN'T racist simply because of the lower number of black people
16:06 <@polerin> Dagmar: now you're just dissagreeing with whatever I say without even thinking about it
16:06 <@Dagmar> Either way, ther'es craptons of white goths, but by the "white male privilege" standard, they're all a bunch of racists
16:07 <@Dagmar> Just like your supposed racist white newspaper
16:07 <@polerin> Dagmar: no, they aren't.  At least not simply through numbers.  There has to be some impetious for other groups to participate
16:07 <@Dagmar> ...and THAT sort of insane, inside-out thinking, is the bullshit I will NOT tolerate
16:07 <@Dagmar> Just because there's three white guys on a corner doesn't fucking mean they killed a black guy to have it to themselves
16:07 <@polerin> Dagmar: in this case, there's not really.  Contrast this to our legal, political, and economic systems
16:08 <@sdodson> Dolemite: Just pour some of your 40 on the pavement and call it even
16:08 <@Drag0n> all newspapers are racist, they refuse to use black paper <g>
16:08 <@polerin> Dagmar: nah but if you want to get down to it, their ancestors likely did have something to do with killing off some indians who owned it previously :)
16:08 <@sdodson> Drag0n: most newspaper is grey
16:08 <@Dagmar> So what
16:08 < Mercster> ohhhh man
16:08 < Mercster> subway
16:08 < Mercster> nomnomnom
16:08 <@Dagmar> "white people" hardly have a monopoly on that
16:08 <@Drag0n> and most white people are pink or tan
16:09 <@polerin> Dagmar: did you have a good thanksgiving?
16:09 <@Drag0n> so, newspapers are aliens run by the grey's?
16:09 <@Dagmar> All sorts of people had been killing off and/or enslaving all sorts of other people for a long goddamn time
16:09 <@polerin> Drag0n: duh, why do you think they didn't report on area 51?
16:09 <@Drag0n> lol, true, makes a lot more sense
16:09 <@Dagmar> ...and yet, the victim mentality argument is that it's something whites should feel responsibility for
16:10 <@Dagmar> There's the _real_ "white male priviledge".  To be blamed for every atrocity that ever happened anywhere.
16:10 <@polerin> Dagmar: true enough, but the US is built on european hemogeny, and in the last 100 years has been one of the most powerful nations on the planet
16:10 <@Dagmar> Hell, let's blame white people for Nazism, since after all, Hitler was white, and killed tons of people
16:10 <@Drag0n> well, exept the last 6-8 years of that
16:10 <@polerin> Dagmar: again, you're not even willing to look at the facts of the other arguments.
16:10 <@Dagmar> What facts
16:11 <@polerin> Dagmar: .... i'm not going through this all again
16:11 <@polerin> fuckit.
16:11 <@polerin> lissa home, erin out.
16:11 <@Dagmar> You didn't go through it the first time
16:11 <@polerin> bai.
16:11 <@Catonic> I think we auto-
16:11 < Mercster> AAAAAND BEGIN
16:11 <@Catonic> Godwinated there;
16:11 <@Dagmar> You just regurgitated a bunch of craptacular arguments fed to you by people who want a reason to blame someone else for their sorry plight, and blaming "white people" is easy because we can't say anything back
16:11 <@Dagmar> If we do, suddenly WE'RE racists
16:12 <@Catonic> Godwin
16:12 <@Dagmar> MY FAMILY DIDN'T FUCKING OWN ANYBODY.
16:12 < Mercster> no, they pwn'd them
16:12 <@Dagmar> I, personally, do not give a crap what sex, race, religion, or nationality someone is.
16:12 <@Catonic> Dagmar: nor did mine, to the best of my knowledge. That didn't stop a former coworker from accusing me of it.
16:12 <@Lissa> mine did. :/
16:12 <@Dagmar> Catonic: I've seriously gotten in people's faces over that twice in the past
16:13 <@Dagmar> Once on MTSU campus, in factr.
16:13 <@polerin> Dagmar: last comment.  You're assuming I don't say anything if someone says something out of line.  I just happen to dissagree with what "out of line" is.  Which guess what, I'm allowed to do.
16:13 <@Catonic> Lissa: oooh, can I touch you?
16:13 <@Lissa> lol
16:13 <@Lissa> no
16:13 <@polerin> Dagmar: also, privilige isn't something you have to DO
16:13 <@Corydon76-dig> Some of my ancestors owned slaves, too
16:13 <@polerin> Dagmar: it's also the benifits that you get without asking for them
16:13 <@Dagmar> polerin: Oh, I see.  So I get to be a bad person just because of what other people do.
16:13 <@polerin> Dagmar: and they are there.  I don't care if you don't accept that they are there, they are there.
16:13 <@Catonic> My family was made up of slaves of the dutch east india company, of the white variety.
16:13 <@polerin> Oh for fucks sake
16:13 <@Lissa> i found picture of dead guys hanging from trees when i was about 8 years old....so, I took them to my grandma...Grandma..what's this!?!?
16:13 <@Dagmar> Way to justify vilifying the innocent
16:13 <@Corydon76-dig> Just up the road from my parents' house is the ancestral plantation
16:13 <@polerin> Dagmar: *I've* got privilige
16:14 <@polerin> privilige is not BAD in and of itself
16:14 < Mercster> better to own white ppl, they work harder
16:14 <@Catonic> Mercster: nah, better to own mexicans.
16:14 < Mercster> Catonic: there you go
16:14 <@Catonic> because black people only take orders from other black people.
16:14 <@Dagmar> Catonic: Expecting their value to go up once they get amnesty?
16:14 <@polerin> Failing to look at it and examine what specific parts of your life, your identity mean to how the world interacts with you, what benifits it gives you, ane what benifits it denies others?  That's bad.
16:14 <@Lissa> ya'll are bad
16:14 <@Lissa> *benefits
16:15 <@Dagmar> ...or is this a "buy low, at least you won't be out a lot of money if they become worthless" thing?"
16:15 <@Lissa> :D
16:15 <@Catonic> Lissa: if you want to see feral, look that the dynamics of social interactions between races.
16:15 <@Catonic> rather, not between, but within.
16:15 <@Lissa> no.  I try to stay out of it.  I avoid confrontation at all costs. :)
16:15 <@Catonic> one of these things is not like the other.
16:15 <@Lissa> i am a drama free zone.
16:15 <@Dagmar> polerin: I get to see plenty of analysis done for me by people trying to convince me that I'm a jackass for no other reason than I'm white and male
16:15 <@Dagmar> So fuck all you
16:15 <@Lissa> hey..i didn't do anything
16:15 <@polerin> Dagmar: It has NOTHING about you being bad
16:15 <@Lissa> so take your fuck back.
16:15 <@Catonic> Dagmar: do we have time? Is there spooning involved?
16:15 <@polerin> Dagmar: why is it that you think I'm attacking you
16:15 <@polerin> I'm not
16:16 <@polerin> I have NOT
16:16 <@polerin> SHE wasn't attacking you
16:16 <@Lissa> can I have change for a fuck?
16:16 <@Dagmar> "you" being everyone trying to convince me about this supposed "white male privlege" as if it applied everywhere
16:16 <@Catonic> Dagmar: you're just angsty because you're white and nerdy.
16:16  * Mercster gives Lissa a handjob
16:16 <@Corydon76-dig> Dagmar: I think you're a jackass, but it's not because you're white and male.  It's because I've interacted with you.
16:16 <@Dagmar> Catonic: Nah, that's the reason I hit people
16:16 <@polerin> It was a descriptor and shorthand for how rush limbaugh, someone who YOU described as an asshole (or something like it), presents himself to the world
16:16 <@Dagmar> See!  Corydon has the know of things
16:17 <@Lissa> heh
16:17 <@polerin> I'm talking specifically about *ME* dag
16:17 <@polerin> you've been yelling at me for the past 40 minutes or so
16:17 <@Dagmar> polerin: Yes, Rush is an asshole *and* a pinhead, but it doesn't have shit to do with being white or male
16:17 <@polerin> me personally.
16:17 <@Lissa> that's the drugs
16:17 <@Dagmar> We can find plenty of examples counter to that
16:17 <@Catonic> Well, there's a difference between a self-righteous asshole and Dagmar..
16:17 < Mercster> cocaine's a helluva drug
16:17 <@Dagmar> there's Nancy Grace, who's on CNN, who is white, but *female* (and a bitch of the first order)
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16:18 < Mercster> i think we can all agree, nancy grace is a piece of shit
16:18 <@Dagmar> There's Al Sharpton, who's male and black, and a pinhead and race-baiter of the first order..
16:18  * Lissa coughs jesse jackson
16:18 < Mercster> that's common ground
16:18 <@polerin> Dagmar: hell, I'm not saying either of thsoe people are nice, good, or RIGHT
16:19 <@polerin> Dagmar: I'm not familiar with the first because I haven't watched cnn for months
16:19 <@polerin> and I never follow the anchor names, they irk me too much
16:19 <@Lissa> yanno...i leave work thinking...by the time i get home this will be done with.  nada.
16:19 <@polerin> and sharpton ... he's a self aggrandizing ass
16:19 <@Dagmar> ...and when you're seeing some media arguing about intolerance or inequality, and then use ludicrous racist and sexist arguments you're supposed to just nod your head and agree with without thinking in them... then you KNOW you're looking at a victim mentality
16:19 < eryc> who doesnt like nancy grace!!??!
16:19 <@polerin> and while he does play privilige games (He didn't say shit about Duanna johnson for example)
16:19 < Mercster> eryc: EVERYONE
16:20 <@polerin> most of his crap doesn't come from it.
16:20 <@polerin> Dagmar: that's a favorite phrase of yours
16:20 <@polerin> what exactly does victim mentality meen
16:20 <@polerin> s/meen/mean
16:20 < eryc> you
16:20 < Mercster> trolling the universe for reasons to be offended
16:20 <@polerin> bcause I've seen you use it a whole bunch now, and people define it a whole bunch of different ways
16:20 <@Dagmar> It's not a "favorite phrase".  It's the core complaint I had with that damn article.
16:21 <@Dagmar> It's a bunch of bullshit disguised as "political correctness"
16:21 <@Dagmar> People going out of their way to be offended
16:21 <@polerin> Dagmar: fine, it's a repeated phrase, and I'm curious what exactly you mean by it.
16:21 <@polerin> so I'm politically correct?
16:21 <@polerin> ...
16:21 <@polerin> heh
16:21 <@polerin> oh hell yes. I've ARRIVED
16:21 <@Dagmar> Because let's face it... otherwise that news outlet would not give Rush Limbaugh a MOMENT'S consideration
16:21 <@polerin> I can finally be a commentator on <insert big named station here>
16:22 < Mercster> in the end, Rush is primarily an entertainer, and most of the entertainment comes from outraged reactions like polerin's
16:22  * Lissa goes to take a nap while this discussion continues
16:22 < Mercster> so essentially
16:22 < Mercster> he's done a good job
16:22 <@polerin> Dagmar: yes because it's not like he is a powerful figure in right wing media, who has a show that garners 20 million viewers weekly.
16:22 < Mercster> listeners
16:22 <@Dagmar> Ah so this is a right-wing media outlet?
16:22 <@Dagmar> How cunning of them
16:22 <@Neoteric> OJ's last words were very fucked up
16:23 <@polerin> Dagmar: no, but that makes him worthy of a little attention.  Critical attention possibly, but it's not like he's joke the plumber
16:23 <@Neoteric> a portrait of a broken man
16:23 < Mercster> Neoteric: i liked the civil war speech
16:23 < Mercster> Neoteric: did you see that?
16:23 <@polerin> actually I think the MSM is pretty far right, but that's a whole different discuission
16:23  * polerin bites lissa
16:23 <@polerin> who isn't playing attention
16:24 <@Dagmar> Their "white male privlege" argument is still complete bullshit.
16:24  * polerin headdesks
16:24 <@polerin> ok
16:24 <@polerin> what do you think they mean by "white male privilige"
16:24 <@Dagmar> I thinkn they mean "the majority oppressors we're angry at"
16:25  * Catonic sprays Dagmar with a hose
16:25 <@Catonic> down boy.
16:25 <@Dagmar> ...but they're not smart enough, or not interested enough in being accurate, to actually define as anything other than "those people who can't say anything to counter this claim without us having an easy job of calling them racists"
16:25 < Mercster> Catonic: racist
16:25 <@polerin> you're dodging.  What does the phrase "white male privilige" actually involve as a concept, not as what you think thier goals are for using it.
16:25 <@Dagmar> Their goal for using it is the entire point
16:25 <@polerin> you can disagree with a concept
16:25 <@polerin> you can dissagree with a goal
16:26 <@polerin> but at least be able to define it.
16:26 <@Catonic> Mercster: yeah, about that... try walking through a park in Birmingham and getting hassled by a homeless guy because you're white.
16:26 <@polerin> what is the definition
16:26 <@Catonic> my date was really impressed.
16:26 <@Dagmar> THey get to demonize a group that can't fight back as the source of Limbaugh's "power" which allows them to dismiss that just MAYBE, he might have actually appealed to a large group of assholes who buy stuff
16:26 <@polerin> that's still not a definition.
16:26 <@Dagmar> They're trying to say he's gotten where he's gotten because he's white and male
16:27 <@polerin> what does the concept of "white male privilige" entail?
16:27 <@Dagmar> ...which is anything but the trusth.
16:27 <@polerin> not rush. not you.  what does the concept itself entail
16:27 <@Dagmar> Bullshit and fuzzy thinking.
16:27 <@polerin> then tell me what the details are, and pick it apart
16:28 <@Dagmar> Why
16:28 <@polerin> I'm sure that if it's so full of shit, that'll be easy enough for you
16:28 <@Dagmar> It's completely secondary to the fact that the article you cite is crap
16:28 <@Dagmar> Let's start with the title... "Barbara Walters Talks Sense To Idiocy"
16:28 <@polerin> because otherwise I'm going to conclude that you've spent the past bit of time arguing about how something you can't even define is a load of bullshit."
16:28 <@Catonic> why don't we just boil this down to the issue that perhaps because the well of paternal warmth was not bestowed upon these unfortunate people that they are forced to seek attention from a false paternal source: the government.
16:28 <@polerin> I wasn't CITING an article
16:28 < Mercster> Catonic: my neighborhood is oh, 70% black...not nice polite middle class black either, stinky poor pig's feet and crack black. i doubt polerin has actually ever been in a place "majority black" enough to udnerstand that all this crap goes both ways, it just so happens white people are more numerous on this continent.  and until nature begins bending in on iself, people like polerin will always be around to cry foul
16:28 <@Dagmar> That stupilates two things, one being that Barbara Walters (the female) is talking sense, the other being that Rush Limbaugh is talking "idiocy".
16:29 <@polerin> Mercster: I lived in sudan for 2 years
16:29 <@Dagmar> So let's take a look at that a little more closely, without getting our panties in a ruffle
16:29 <@Catonic> and only in the appreciation of action by the government, do they acknowlege affirmation.
16:29 <@Dagmar> IDIOTS DON'T GENERALLY GET SYNDICATED.
16:29 <@polerin> Dagmar: Your still not answering the question
16:29 <@polerin> Dagmar: I wasn't even citing the article.
16:29 <@Dagmar> They don't *like* what he's saying, so they just call it "idiocy"
16:29 <@polerin> Dagmar: I was posting it because I thought the interview with rush was laughable
16:29 <@Dagmar> ....and in the first fucking paragraph, they use that PHRASE...
16:29 <@Dagmar> "unacknowledged white male privilege"
16:29 <@polerin> Dagmar: Define that phrase please
16:30 < Mercster> polerin: "on this continent", im pretty sure we're talking about American culture here, considering you're railing against "white male hegemony"
16:30 <@Dagmar> They're saying rather frankly that he's gotten where he's gotten because he's white and male, and the ability to cater to other pinheads doesn't even figure in
16:30 <@polerin> I really want to know what about it you think is bullshit, but you've not even defined the basic term we are arguing over.  I've tried previously, but keep getting sidetracked
16:30 < Mercster> i doubt Rush Limbaugh is much of a factor in sudan
16:30 <@Catonic> Mercster: if I wanted to live in somewhere that was 70%, I'd move to Atlanta. I like being able to sleep at night without hearing cars on the street that are louder than the jet planes over head or the trains one-half\ mile away.
16:31 <@Dagmar> polerin: They're implying that white males somehow have a unique advantage
16:31 <@Catonic> that being said, my building is an interesting cross-section of people.
16:31 <@Dagmar> ...and they're making the claim that his success is largely due to that
16:31 <@Dagmar> Which is *bullshit*
16:31 <@polerin> Mercster: Actually, being white in sudan confers a bit of power as well.  It's a double edged sword but it's there.  That being said, I went to school in the projects, taugh a TKD to a majority black middle school, and have lived in fairly diverse neighborhoods my entire life.
16:32 <@polerin> Dagmar: not unique, but systematic.
16:32 <@Catonic> one white guy in his 40s, one white woman in her 50s, one white girl in her 20s, one black girl in her 20s, and one black guy in his 30s.
16:32 <@Dagmar> No more systematic than black male privledge
16:32 < Mercster> my neighborhood aint diverse, its black ;)
16:32 <@Catonic> and me, a male of undeterminate age.
16:32 <@polerin> what is black male privilige please?
16:32 <@polerin> I REALLY have to know this one
16:32 < Mercster> polerin: come to my neighborhood, ill show yo
16:32 < Mercster> u
16:32 <@Dagmar> What's a white male privledge
16:32 <@Dagmar> You forget you're talking to someone who knows troll arguments.
16:32 <@Catonic> polerin: where eye contact gets you assaulted.
16:33 <@polerin> Dagmar: I already defined ait a couple times, and i'm not the one saying it's bullshit.
16:33 < Mercster> black males will be trying to get you to priveledge them all over
16:33 <@polerin> so now i'm trolling?
16:33 <@Dagmar> You don't get to carry your end of things by simply saying "Please define this" at every turn
16:33 <@Catonic> as opposed to white male privilege, where you don't get eye contact, or you do and are left with the feeling that you are nothing.
16:33 <@Dagmar> Cite something specific.
16:33 <@polerin> Jesus fucking crhist on a pogo stick, i post a video in here so that people can laugh about it
16:33 <@polerin> and all the sudden I'm trolling?
16:33 <@Catonic> they see me trollin', they hatin'.
16:33 <@Dagmar> Something specific that CAN'T be easily shown to NOT be unique to white males
16:33 <@Dagmar> ...that isn't having a white penis.
16:33 <@polerin> Dagmar: I did define it several times.  but fine.
16:33 <@Dagmar> No you didn't.
16:34 <@polerin> yes, actually I did.
16:34 <@polerin> but that's ok
16:34 <@Catonic> My penis isn't... hey, I need to get some sun down there.
16:34 <@polerin> we'll start it over
16:34 <@brimstone> http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/1259/0/Jesus_on_a_Pogo.ashx
16:34 < Mercster> gah
16:34 <@polerin> brimstone: heh
16:34 <@scoil> beer brew store and liquor store got broken into
16:34 <@Dagmar> You said a bunch of propaganda you've been reading from these wacked out websites, which claim that white males get some benefits that we're not aware of which neatly forbids us being able to say "No, we fucking well don't"
16:34 <@Catonic> scoil: the url is somethingawful.com/jeffk/
16:34 <@polerin> white male privilige is a composit concept
16:34 <@Dagmar> By which you mean "made up"?
16:35 <@scoil> yaaaaaaaay Catonic it's been so long
16:35 <@Dagmar> For the term to have any weight or merit, it must be referring to something unique
16:35 <@polerin> Privilige in this case being benifit confired onto someone through social interpretation of their body or other socially relevant facts
16:35 <@polerin> Dagmar: no, actually that's not true.
16:35 <@polerin> privilige exists in many forms
16:35 <@Dagmar> So basically, white people get along well with white people.
16:35 <@polerin> and can be modified in other wise
16:35 <@polerin> no
16:35 <@Dagmar> Imagine tat.
16:35 <@polerin> it's beyond that
16:35 <@Dagmar> I never knew black people couldn't get along with black people.
16:36 <@Dagmar> ...because that's what it would have to entail.
16:36 <@polerin> so privilige is a benifit you get from being you.
16:36 <@Dagmar> UNIQUENESS is a *requirement*.
16:36 <@polerin> Dagmar: uniqueness is a requirement by who?
16:36 <@polerin> you?
16:36 <@polerin> shit, nothing shared across multiple people is unique
16:36 <@Dagmar> Being that the term is "white male privlege" then there must be no parallel
16:36 < Mercster> you people are boring
16:36 <@polerin> by it's very definition
16:36 <@Dagmar> What about black female privledge?
16:37 <@polerin> there is some.  Not a whole buch, but there is some.
16:37 <@Dagmar> Or hispanic transgender privledge!
16:37 < Mercster> :-/
16:37 <@polerin> you know what, you're not even attempting to have a discussion dag
16:37 <@Dagmar> Amana range privledge!
16:37 <@polerin> your not even letting me finish a statement
16:37 <@polerin> before you start blowing the channel past it
16:37 <@Dagmar> No, I'm pointing out that the "white male privledge" argument is CIRCULAR AS HELL
16:37 < Mercster> haHA
16:37  * Mercster coughs
16:38 <@brimstone> Mercster: they do this
16:38 <@Dagmar> It implies that there is no parallel with other sexes or races, and that is not only UNTRUE, but insulting.
16:38 <@polerin> you can't even define it, so how the hell can you paint it as shit.
16:38 <@brimstone> Mercster: just wait for it to pass, current ETA 1 hour
16:38 <@Dagmar> it's a white male privledge because the people doing it are white
16:38 <@Dagmar> it's a white male privledge because the people doing it are male
16:38 <@Dagmar> SO FUCKING WHAT
16:38 < Mercster> brimstone: i coulda swore it had already stopped a few times
16:38 < Mercster> especially when one of them said "THIS IS MY LAST STATEMENT"
16:38 <@Dagmar> C-i-r-c-u-l-a-r.
16:39 <@brimstone> Mercster: lol, don't believe those
16:39 <@Dagmar> For it to be useful as a term to show _negativity_ then it has to be unique, and it's NOT.
16:39 <@polerin> Dagmar: when the white guys hold the power, yeah, it's a bit circular.  that's what make up cycles you know?
16:39 <@Dagmar> BZZT!
16:39 <@Dagmar> You fail.
16:39 <@Dagmar> "White guys" don't hold the power.
16:39 <@Dagmar> "Rich guys" hold the power.
16:39 <@polerin> Oh yes, that's exactly right.
16:39 <@polerin> Your SO SO RIGHT
16:39 <@polerin> it's sexism and classism that matter
16:40 <@brimstone> Mercster: it's fun when two of the get on the same side
16:40 <@polerin> not racism and sexism.
16:40 <@polerin> I'm sorry
16:40 <@polerin> I'll try to do better
16:40 < Mercster> marx was an ass
16:40 <@Dagmar> So long as you let the rich people, irregardless of their sex or gender, keep you thinking it's "white males" doing this or "black males" doing that, you FAIL
16:40 <@polerin> hey you were the one that says "Rich Guys"
16:40 <@Dagmar> It's called labeling and it's fallacious in the extreme.
16:40 <@Dagmar> Take a forensic debate class already
16:41 <@polerin> which by the way if you look, due to systematic racism over the centuries, the great majority of wealthy people in the US happen to be white?
16:41 < Mercster> ?
16:41 <@polerin> so
16:41 <@Dagmar> Use of the term "white make privilege" makes an argument from the general to the particular, which is fallacious.
16:41 <@Dagmar> polerin: So what
16:41 <@Dagmar> It's rather fucking useless to point out that they're white
16:41 <@polerin> Dagmar: so by definition, white guys hold the power
16:41 <@polerin> maby not ALL white guys
16:41 < Mercster> polerin: well, we did colonize the place
16:41 <@polerin> but white guys hold the power
16:41 <@Dagmar> You might as well say "Look at all the people with hair who have power!"
16:41 <@polerin> Mercster: tru'nuff
16:41 <@Dagmar> So long as your head stays shoved up your ass, you'll never get around that
16:42 <@polerin> Dagmar: people with hare do tend to get along better with people who aren't bald
16:42 <@polerin> Dagmar: but you just missed it, you disproved your own statement
16:42 <@Dagmar> Let me make this very simple for you
16:42 < Mercster> hairist
16:42 <@Dagmar> You have a box.
16:42 <@Dagmar> In the box are 100 "objects"
16:42 < Mercster> POLERIN IS A HAIRIST
16:42 <@Dagmar> 75 of these objects are blue
16:42 < Mercster> Dagmar: BZZT ppl arent objects
16:42 < Mercster> NEXT
16:42 <@Dagmar> 25 of these objects are green.
16:42 <@Dagmar> 50 of these objects are round, and 50 of these objects are square.
16:42 < Mercster> this is complex
16:42 <@Dagmar> You get to pick ONE adjective to describe them all
16:43 < Mercster> RACISTS
16:43 <@Dagmar> No, I'll make it easier, TWO adjectives.
16:43 < Mercster> WHITE RACISTS
16:43 < Mercster> im losing this game
16:43 <@polerin> Dagmar: Power is help in this country by a majority white social class,  White people get along better with white people, therefor, the white people who are in power are going to tend to keep promoting white people
16:43 <@Dagmar> It's a nomenclature issue.
16:43 <@polerin> Dagmar: so you have a cyclical system
16:43 <@Dagmar> THERE"S WAY MORE POOR WHITE PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE POWER OVER SHIT THAN THERE ARE RICH WHITE PEOPLE IN POWER.
16:43 <@polerin> again
16:43 <@polerin> we are are talking about who has the power, and who gets the power
16:44 <@polerin> i'm not saying there aren't poor white people
16:44 <@polerin> or that men don't get the shit end of the stick sometimes
16:44 <@Dagmar> Yet, you'll let motherfuckers convince you that it's okay to say "white male privlege" when "rich mothcerfucker privlege" is considerably more accurate
16:44 < Mercster> whats brown and sticky
16:44 <@polerin> (hell look at the homeless population, primarily male)
16:44 <@Dagmar> Why do people say "white male" when they mean "rich motherfucker"?
16:44 <@polerin> Dagmar: The problem is they are two different sets of privilige
16:44 <@polerin> Dagmar: because Class privilige has one set of things that come with it
16:44 <@polerin> Dagmar: and being white has another
16:44 < Mercster> poop
16:44 <@polerin> Dagmar: and being male has another
16:45 <@Dagmar> Because there's not as much shame in being dominated by "whites" who are numerous as there is in being dominated by "rich" who are NOT so numerous.
16:45 < Mercster> polerin: so basically, life isnt fair
16:45 < Mercster> GOT IT
16:45 <@Dagmar> BLaming "white males" for the actions of "rich people" is stupid.
16:45 <@Dagmar> Period.
16:45 <@polerin> Dagmar: for example, having more weight added to your technical opinion.  (I experienced that one personally)
16:45 <@polerin> Dagmar: I'm not blaming white males for shit
16:45 <@polerin> Dagmar: you keep talking about blame
16:45 <@polerin> it's not about blame
16:45 <@Dagmar> That article does blame them
16:45 <@polerin> no.
16:45 < eryc> i am. godamn crackers
16:45 <@Dagmar> You cited the article.
16:45 <@polerin> the article doesn't do shit.
16:45 <@polerin> I didn't CITE it
16:45 <@Dagmar> I called the article bullshit.
16:46 < Mercster> polerin: problem is, when a white person's technical opinion is overruled, they never get to use that card
16:46 <@Dagmar> ...and that's how we got here.
16:46 < eryc> kill whitey!
16:46 <@polerin> I posted it as a link for the VIDEO
16:46 < Mercster> "it's because i was white!"
16:46 < Mercster> eryc: damn right
16:46 <@polerin> and that's how we got here
16:46 < Mercster> yer video wuz dum
16:46 <@polerin> Mercster: In this case I was talking about male privilige
16:46 < Mercster> polerin: i wasnt
16:46 <@polerin> Mercster: which I had a boss come to me and tell me he realized he wasn't taking my opinion seriously any more because I was a woman.
16:46 <@polerin> Mercster: stop taking the statement out of context then
16:46 <@polerin> :P|
16:47 <@Dagmar> So you have a dimwit boss
16:47 <@polerin> no
16:47  * Dagmar whistles innocently.
16:47 <@polerin> I *had* a dimwit boss
16:47 <@polerin> but
16:47 <@polerin> he was smart enough to realize he was doing it
16:47 < Mercster> what an idiot
16:47 <@sdodson> polerin: I can't take your opinion seriously.
16:47 <@polerin> and extrapolate from there that he was probably doing it to other women as well
16:48 <@polerin> sdodson: .. and?  You think dag does?
16:48 <@polerin> He won't even let me finish defining a term he demanded that I define
16:48 < Mercster> why would you tell someone after you've discriminated against them
16:48 <@sdodson> polerin: inorite
16:48 <@Dagmar> You've had how long now to define it?
16:48 < Mercster> that's no way to keep power with the white man
16:48 <@polerin> Mercster: because you wanted to say you're sorry?
16:48 <@Dagmar> Clearly, I'm oppressing you too much
16:48 < Mercster> polerin: fuck all that
16:49 <@Dagmar> Less QQ, more pewpew
16:49 <@polerin> Mercster: because you're a decent person, and you have a good enough relationship with the person in question that you think it will be taken as the analysis it is and the apology it is, instead of just stuffing it away in fear?
16:49 <@polerin> Dagmar: every time I started on a definition you start mocking it before it even got off the ground
16:49 < Mercster> definitions are complex
16:49 <@polerin> Dagmar: you've obvioiusly been feeding on trolls for to long
16:49 < Mercster> give her some room
16:49 <@Dagmar> You should maybe try surer premises then
16:50 <@Dagmar> Just because propaganda comes from a minority-controlled source doesn't make it suddenly not propaganda
16:50 <@polerin> Dagmar: the premis is sure. It is a composite though, and for a complete definition, which is what would be neccisary for a full and honest discussion of it here, you have to flesh out each of the components
16:50 < Mercster> lol
16:50 <@Dagmar> So far "composite" is not the term I'd use
16:51 < Mercster> compost?
16:51 <@polerin> of course, because you wouldn't even get past the first part of it
16:51 < eryc> shutup and quit whining
16:51 <@Dagmar> Words like, "fiction" and phrases like "special selection" spring to mind rather quickly
16:51 <@sdodson> eryc: hi
16:51 < eryc> sdodson: hai
16:51 <@polerin> privilige.  Which is is a benifit or set of benifits that you get for having the body or the socially relevant traits that you have.
16:52 <@brimstone> Selected for Secondary Security Screening!
16:52 <@Dagmar> Wrong.
16:52 <@polerin> In this context, that is what it is referring too.
16:52 <@sdodson> eryc: Server:  (/ERROR: No IP address specified., SunOS)
16:52 <@polerin> are you saying that that is an invalid definitioni?
16:52 <@polerin> err
16:52 <@polerin> definition?
16:52 <@sdodson> eryc: where is jet expecting to get the server ip address from?
16:52 <@Dagmar> Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
16:52 <@polerin> what is wrong about it?
16:52 < eryc> in the template or /etc/hosts or dns
16:52 <@polerin> you yourself used privilige in this manner
16:52 <@polerin> when talking about "rich motherfucker privilige"
16:52 <@Dagmar> You've included criteria which do not make the word any more useful to anyone except people with a racist or sexist agenda
16:53 <@Dagmar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege
16:53 < Mercster> HITLER
16:53 < Mercster> argument over
16:53 <@polerin> Dagmar: so word's can't have meenings?
16:53 <@polerin> Dagmar: meanings even
16:53 <@Dagmar> They have very *specific* meanings.
16:53 <@polerin> other than what are in a dictionary or a wiki
16:53 <@polerin> and yes, this IS a specific meaning.
16:54 <@polerin> it's one you happen to dissagree with the validity of the meaning
16:54 <@Dagmar> Distort a few words only slightly, and you can construct some valid, but utterly UNTRUE arguments.
16:54 < Mercster> 1. A peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor; a right or immunity not enjoyed by others or by all; special enjoyment of a good, or exemption from an evil or burden; a prerogative; advantage; franchise. [1913 Webster]
16:54 <@polerin> but that is what it is defined as In this context
16:54 <@Dagmar> I have a problem with not only the meaning, but the nomenclature
16:54 <@polerin> actually that's a pretty good definition of it merc
16:54 <@Dagmar> "white male privilege" is about as accurate and meaningful as "black male crack addiction".
16:54 < Mercster> dict.org
16:55 <@Dagmar> The "groups" privileges apply to do NOT necessarily have anything to do with race, gender, or ANYTHING in particular.
16:55 <@polerin> which includes the definition you get, my definition is a bit narrower because I am talking about a subset of how privilige can manifest, ie social privilige
16:55 -!- Peaches84 [i=silver@c-68-53-162-99.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #se2600 []
16:55 <@Neoteric> oh god
16:55 <@sdodson> eryc: hmm, ok
16:55 <@polerin> Dagmar: will you agree with Mercster's definition?
16:55 < Mercster> Neoteric: yellow male privilidge
16:56 <@polerin> definition of the word
16:56 <@Dagmar> Yeah, I'm fine with his definition, because it didn't inherently involve race or gender like yours did
16:56 <@polerin> actually mine doesn't involve anything really
16:56 <@polerin> it's really vauge and can be applied to various things
16:56 <@Dagmar> I'm trying to make things simple for you by pointing out the "black male crack addiction"
16:56 < Mercster> you're saying it's analogous
16:57 <@Dagmar> It's a pretty good analogy, IMHO.
16:57 <@Dagmar> The same problem exists in both cases.
16:57 <@polerin> Dagmar: and you're totaly going off on a tangent before we can even start really talking about our basic definitions
16:57 <@polerin> so
16:57 <@polerin> given Merc's definition
16:57 <@Dagmar> There's an attribute which is NOT shared by the entirety of the group which is being labeled
16:57 <@Dagmar> ...and in fact is only shared by a small sliver of said group.
16:58 <@Dagmar> A relatively small number of black men smoke crack.
16:58 <@Dagmar> A relatively small number of white males hold power.
16:58 <@polerin> I would add this qualification because we are not just talking about "privilige" as a definition, we are talking about it in a specific useage
16:58 <@sdodson> Dagmar: a greater porportion do however.
16:58 <@Dagmar> Yet, "black male crack addiction" is racist and "white male privledge" isn't?
16:58 <@Dagmar> They're BOTH hellishly inaccurate to the point of being useless
16:58  * polerin waves a flag at dagmar
16:59 <@polerin> we are over here
16:59 <@polerin> still trying to define the terms
16:59 <@polerin> and you're off on a tangent
16:59 <@polerin> again.
16:59 < Mercster> generalizations can always be proved wrong by specific instance, though that doesnt mean they arent useful constructs
16:59 <@sdodson> Mercster: OMG YOU ARE MY HERO!
16:59  * Mercster flexes
16:59 <@Dagmar> Mercster: Which brings us to the formal term for what I'm describing
16:59 <@Dagmar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization
16:59 <@sdodson> Everyone's afraid of generalizations and stereotyping.
16:59 <@Dagmar> "Hasty generalization is a logical fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence. It commonly involves basing a broad conclusion upon the statistics of a survey of a small group that fails to sufficiently represent the whole population."
17:00 < Mercster> sdodson: they wouldnt exist if there wasnt some kernel of truth to them
17:00 <@Dagmar> The "privilege" of "white males" falls far short of applying to *all* white males
17:00 <@sdodson> Mercster: yup
17:00 < Mercster> to greatest sin is to hastily apply a generalization to an individual
17:00 < Mercster> that's where you get into trouble
17:00 <@polerin> so. agreeing on the definition above, I would specify that the privilige classes I am talking about are ones that are confired through socially relivant factors.
17:00 < Mercster> s/to/the
17:01 <@polerin> you don't neccisarilly agree that a specific one exist
17:01 <@polerin> but just on the definition of the word.
17:01 <@polerin> is that acceptable as a sub-definition.
17:01 < Mercster> polerin: you need charts and graphs
17:01 <@polerin> I do
17:01 <@polerin> and a bow tie.
17:01 <@polerin> and to be ross perot
17:01 < Mercster> CAN I FINISH
17:01 < Mercster> CAN
17:01 < Mercster> I
17:01 < Mercster> FINISH
17:01 <@polerin> lol
17:01 <@polerin> see!
17:01 < Mercster> larry, can i finish
17:02 <@Dagmar> So you've got a long way to go before you actually reach your point I"m guessing
17:02 <@polerin> totaly me.
17:02 <@polerin> Dagmar: I'm waiting on you to say yea or nae
17:02 <@polerin> since you objected prior
17:02 < eryc> im waiting on you to shut the fuck up
17:02 <@Dagmar> Sure.  Why not
17:03 < Mercster> PRELIMINARY AGREEMENT REACHED. ROUND ONE FITE.
17:03 <@Dagmar> I have the feeling you're about to wind up runnnig the argument in a circle again, but we'll see
17:03 <@sdodson> eryc: waiting on who?
17:03 <@sdodson> eryc: i still fail
17:03 <@Dagmar> "small group that fails to sufficiently represent the whole population"
17:03 < eryc> fail msg?
17:03 <@sdodson> eryc: I think having this jumpstart server in another subnet is not cool with JET.
17:03 -!- nated0g_wrk [i=nated0g@river191.bigriver.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:03 <@polerin> Dagmar: Ok so we've agreed on that defnition of privilige
17:04 <@polerin> Can you agree that class privilige exists
17:04 <@polerin> not even that having more money meens you can buy more things
17:04 <@Dagmar> For the phrase "white male privilege" to be anything more than a self-contained circular argument, it has to apply to more than just a small minority of white males.
17:04 <@polerin> but that the class you belong too confirs other benifits in the society.
17:04 <@polerin> you're jumping ahead again dag.
17:04 <@polerin> :P
17:04 < Mercster> Dagmar: plz argue the way polerin wants you to
17:05 < Mercster> it's the only way this can work
17:05 <@polerin> lol
17:05 < eryc> sdodson: maybe not.. as long as dhcp works
17:05 < eryc> mine is on a diferent subnet
17:05 <@polerin> Mercster: given that we are dissagreing on what the basic terms are.. I'd like to be able to at least speak the same language
17:05 <@polerin> In the end I don't really care
17:05 <@polerin> I've never seen anyone convince dag of anything
17:06 < Mercster> polerin: diving into semantics is the first way to get nothing done
17:06 <@sdodson> polerin: it's unpossible
17:06 < eryc> tho i did have to configure the /etc/hosts to point the `hostname` to the jumpstart subnet ip otherwise it would install dhcp on the wrong interface
17:06 < Mercster> of course not, he's white and powerful
17:06 <@polerin> Mercster: nah, he's just dag
17:06 <@sdodson> Mercster: well, he's white.
17:06 < eryc> dhtadm -P and pntadm -P <subnet> should help
17:06 <@sdodson> the rest, not so much
17:07 <@polerin> but it's an interesting rehtorical exercise and talking with people who are extremely critical of a viewpoint I hold helps me flesh out that viewpoint and look at it from other peoples perspectives
17:08 <@Catonic> eryc: drink with me.
17:08 <@Dagmar> I generally spend a LOT of time thinking about shit so that I can be sure I'm right
17:09 <@polerin> dag? care to answer on the concept of class privilige not directly related to purchacing power?
17:09 <@Dagmar> It's not my fault if other people walk through life in a half-awake state of semi-intelligence
17:09 <@Dagmar> polerin: I'm fine with that one too, but I fail to see how it has anything to do with the target you're arguing towards.
17:09 <@polerin> Dagmar: so now i'm half awake or semi-intelligence?
17:09 <@Dagmar> No, you're just full up with other people's crazy kool-aid.
17:10 < Mercster> *crash* YEA!
17:10 -!- tcstool [n=tcstool@74-44-68-147.dsl1.clkvl.tn.frontiernet.net] has joined #se2600
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17:10 <@polerin> Dagmar: I'm simply trying to prove the validity of social privilige as a general concept.
17:10 <@polerin> s'all
17:10 <@Dagmar> No one's arguing that "sub-srgument"
17:10 <@polerin> ok i'm just being sure of our footing before going on ;P
17:10 <@polerin> anyway, next part
17:11 <@polerin> male privilige
17:11 <@polerin> ie
17:11 <@polerin> privilige that stems from being male
17:11 <@polerin> I think this is where we will start coming into disagreement
17:11 <@Dagmar> For you to "win" you're going to have to somehow turn this into a generalized argument that the "white male" privilege" is something that applies to a set of people who statistcally represent both WHITE and MALE to a significant level, which you can not do.
17:11 <@polerin> I'm not even trying to win at this point, I simply want to talk it out :)
17:12 <@polerin> not everything has to be about winning
17:12 <@Dagmar> ...because the majority, even the *simple* majority of males who are white do *not* enjoy any such benefits.
17:12 -!- Catonic_ [n=catonic@60-24.9-67.bham.res.rr.com] has joined #se2600
17:12 < Mercster> polerin: and thats why women will never have POWAR
17:12 <@polerin> Mercster: shush ;P
17:12 < Mercster> it's always about winning
17:12 < Catonic_> I think it more comes down to the issue of saving babies or bombing the fuck out of someone who's about to keel you.
17:12 <@polerin> in this case i'm not worried about winning, because winning an argument about dag is a well-neigh impossible thing
17:12 -!- ware [i=w@i.gotz.teh.priviledged.hackerconsortium.info] has joined #se2600
17:13 <@Dagmar> What benefits they do enjoy are completely analogous to benefits black males enjoy with other black males, and hispanic females enjoy with other hispanic females, and so on
17:13 <@polerin> hi ware, care to join in on beating me?
17:13 < ware> anyone know when the nash2600 vote takes place relative to meeting start time?
17:13 <@polerin> Dagmar: anyway, we aren't including race in it at this poitn
17:13 < Catonic_> polerin: I think you've hit a disconnect
17:13 < ware> polerin: hai titpix plz thnx
17:13 < Catonic_> polerin: is that sarcasm or cyncism?
17:13 <@polerin> ware: thanks for puting my world back in it's place
17:13 < ware> trying to figure out if its promptly at 6 or later in the meeting
17:13 < ware> polerin: <3
17:14 <@polerin> Catonic_: is which?
17:14 <@polerin> Dagmar: all I'm talking about in this case is privilige that comes from being male
17:14 <@Dagmar> ...and for that to be meaningful, it has to be *unique*
17:15 < Catonic_> ware's like that red-headed stepchild that you just want to hug around the neck and hold close...
17:15 <@Dagmar> Meaning there can't be any similar or comparable privilege that is enjoyed by those who are not-male.
17:15 < Catonic_> ... while you whisper: "shhh... it'll all be over soon."
17:15 < Catonic_> then you hear a familiar pop, and know your work is done.
17:15 <@polerin> Dagmar: not really, but it does have to be something that is stastically relivant across the class
17:16 <@polerin> Dagmar: your insistance on uniqueness is ignoring basic statistics
17:16 <@Dagmar> No, it has to be unique, as in "unfair" or there's not much point in mentioning it
17:16 <@polerin> something can be meaningfull without being unique.
17:16 <@Dagmar> Then there's nothing wrong with "white male privilege"
17:16 <@polerin> I never said there was
17:16 <@polerin> in fact
17:16 <@Dagmar> Glad we've sorted that with a simple short-circuting of your argument
17:16 <@polerin> I said several times that there wasnt
17:17 <@Dagmar> ...again "small group that fails to sufficiently represent the whole population"
17:17 <@Dagmar> I still say the phrase is propaganda.
17:17 <@Dagmar> *because* it has a fallacy at it's core
17:18 <@polerin> anyway, male privilige.  Things that come from being male.  in this case, Being at a signifigantly lower risk of being on the recieving end of spousal abuse, and sexual abuse, or for positive privilige, having less scruteny applied to technical arguments you make.
17:18 <@sdodson> I'm not sure it's possible to have a small group of americans that represents the whole population.
17:18 < Mercster> polerin: perhaps you mean physical spousal abuse
17:18 <@Dagmar> For each of those things I can cite counters
17:18 <@sdodson> What creates lower percentage of spousal abuse?
17:18 <@Dagmar> Women have much less trouble working as nurses.
17:19 <@polerin> Mercster: I do, specifically. I'm not 100% on emotional spousal abuse statistics :)
17:19 <@Dagmar> Women have muhc less trouble breaking into porn.
17:19 < Mercster> sdodson: congress
17:19 <@Dagmar> Women are far less likely to get beat up by another woman on the street "just because"
17:19 <@polerin> Dagmar: before you counter
17:19 <@polerin> Dagmar: do the things that I mention exist?
17:19 <@sdodson> eryc: I don't want jet/js to run dhcp at all, is that possible.
17:19 <@Dagmar> Women are *far* more likely to be taken seriously in the avenues of fashion, decor, art, and music.
17:19 <@polerin> music?
17:19 <@polerin> really?
17:19 <@Dagmar> Yes, really.
17:19 <@polerin> heh.  looked at the top 40 recently?
17:20 <@Dagmar> \The Top 40 isn't music, it's marketing.
17:20 <@polerin> it's where the money is.
17:20 <@polerin> money and power.
17:20 < Mercster> fashion and decor, yes. art and music, no
17:20  * ware waves!
17:20 <@Dagmar> \Maybe
17:20 -!- ware [i=w@i.gotz.teh.priviledged.hackerconsortium.info] has left #se2600 []
17:20 <@polerin> Dagmar: also, you didn't answer
17:20 <@Dagmar> I didn't answer what
17:21 <@polerin> also, I didn't say top 40 what.  You can look at top 40 classical for all I care :P
17:21 <@polerin> do the things I mention exist?
17:21 <@Dagmar> They exist.  So what.  They fail to lack analogs.
17:21 <@polerin> that women are more likely to be raped, beaten by a spouse, (both), and in general are men's technical ideas subjected to less scruteny
17:21 -!- Catonic_ is now known as Cinotac
17:21 <@Dagmar> Different sexes is different.
17:22 -!- Cinotac is now known as Catonic_lp
17:22 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Catonic_lp] by ChanServ
17:22 -!- Catonic was kicked from #se2600 by Catonic_lp [Catonic_lp]
17:22 < Mercster> maybe if you could spell scrutiny, you'd be less scrutinized
17:22 <@Dagmar> In general, women's opionions of art are less subject to scrutiny than males
17:22 < Mercster> BOOM SHAKALAKA
17:22 <@polerin> you're quoted analogs are "women can do porn.", "women can be nurses.", and "women are t aken more seriously in fashion, decor, art, and music."
17:22 <@Shadow404> wow, polerin and dagmar remind me of an elderly arguing couple, it never ends or gets them anywhere
17:22 <@polerin> correct?
17:23 <@Dagmar> Shadow404: I'll let you know when polerin actually makes a step forward
17:23 <@Dagmar> Yeah and those took mere seconds to think up
17:23 <@Shadow404> both of you are already miles of steps backwards
17:23 <@Shadow404> so yeah, keep me up to date
17:23 <@polerin> Dagmar: I'm having to go slow because you're going which ways ;P
17:23 <@polerin> Dagmar: those are benifits? really?
17:23 < Mercster> 'benefits'
17:24 <@polerin> being able to sell your body for money (at a relitively low scale on the whole list of body selling things) is a benifit?
17:24 <@Dagmar> polerin: Sure.
17:24 <@polerin> Mercster: sorry, never claimed to have good speelin.
17:24 <@Dagmar> It's renting, not sales
17:24 <@polerin> fine, renting.
17:24 <@polerin> same thing applies
17:24 <@Dagmar> One of the *oldest* professions, actually.  One which males don't even have as an option
17:24 < Mercster> polerin: so you get to say what is worthwhile or not, which in turn informs your idea of 'priviledge'
17:24 <@polerin> yes because there are no male sex workers at all
17:25 <@Dagmar> THere's damn few of them that I'm aware of
17:25 < Mercster> polerin: people who have what you dont are priviledged
17:25 < Mercster> polerin: what you have, by some conspiracy, is crap
17:25 <@polerin> Mercster: if you consider the abuse that is ramant in many places that involve sex work.. I'm not so sure that it's a judgement
17:25 <@Dagmar> Now, are you going to actually try to continue to work on your "argument" or are you just going to get bogged down in cultural references?
17:25 < Mercster> you just said sex everywhere is abusive (women get beat on by spouses)
17:25 <@polerin> Dagmar: You honestly think that most houseboi's are just for improving the decor?
17:25 < Mercster> i bet there's less physical abuse in porn than there is marriages
17:26 <@Dagmar> polerin: I'm sorry, did I make that argument somewhere when I wasn't looking?
17:26 <@polerin> Dagmar: what I'd note is that the employment that you bring up as benifits are genrally less well payed than doctors and engineers
17:26 < Mercster> Dagmar: she's now attempting to place her values over yours
17:26 < Mercster> Dagmar: whereby she can define 'priviledge'
17:26 <@Dagmar> Mercster: I know
17:26 <@polerin> Dagmar: You said that there weren't male sex workers :P
17:26 <@polerin> or rather
17:26 <@Dagmar> No, I did not.
17:26 <@polerin> that there aren't many
17:27 <@Dagmar> Again, no I did not.
17:27 <@polerin> 17:24 <@Dagmar> One of the *oldest* professions, actually.  One which males
17:27 <@polerin>                 don't even have as an option
17:27 <@Dagmar> By comparison.
17:27 <@polerin> 17:24 <@polerin> yes because there are no male sex workers at all
17:27 <@polerin> 17:25 <@Dagmar> THere's damn few of them that I'm aware of
17:27 <@Dagmar> Oh look, there I am saying "few"
17:27 <@polerin> so
17:27 <@polerin> oh come on now your playing semantics
17:27 <@polerin> fine
17:27 <@Dagmar> So pick an interpretation.  They're conflicting, so you can't have both.
17:27 <@polerin> you said there are not many you are aware of
17:28 <@Dagmar> No, I'm actually *not* playing semantics.  You are.
17:28 <@polerin> that doesn't meen that they are not around, nor that they are UNIQUE to females
17:28 <@polerin> if you want to talk about uniqueness you fail your own test.
17:28 <@polerin> anyway
17:28 <@Dagmar> I can say the very same thing about your arguments vs. women being taken seriously on technical issues.
17:28 <@Dagmar> It doesn't mean that women aren't ever taken seriously, or that it's unique to them.
17:28 <@polerin> the things you talk about as being a benifit to women are genrally nowhere near as close a benifit to women as the things that I listed to men are a benifit to them
17:29 <@Dagmar> >..and that's what Mac was referring to.
17:29 <@polerin> actually, I said that women had more scrutiny applied to their arguments
17:29 <@Dagmar> You're placing your own weights on perceieved benefits, but unfortunately it still doesn't help your argument in the least.
17:29 <@polerin> conversely that male privilige in this case is to have less scrutiny applied
17:29 < Mercster> scrutiny bad
17:30 < Mercster> porn bad
17:30 <@Dagmar> propaganda bad.
17:30 <@polerin> Mercster: when you have to answer twice the number of questions that your male partners do every time you bring up an idea, it's sorta disheartening and makes you think twice about your carreer choice.
17:30 < Mercster> beating your wife, good
17:30 <@Dagmar> "white male privilege" as cited in that news article bad
17:30 <@Dagmar> ...and bullshit.
17:30 <@polerin> actually, I like porn.  That's a whole nother thing
17:30 <@polerin> anyway, so those priviliges exist as a male thing
17:30 <@Dagmar> So what
17:30 < Mercster> polerin: have you ever considered your ideas were worse, oh yeah, you have the trump that your boss told you he was a racist pig
17:30 <@polerin> you agreed they did, though you believe they are offset by other priviliges held by women
17:30 <@Dagmar> There's plenty of privileges that exist as a "female thing"
17:30 < Mercster> i dunno, i may call bullshit on that
17:31 <@polerin> Mercster: actually my ideas genrally get adopted in the end :P
17:31 <@Catonic_lp> Behold, the power of the poon.
17:31 < Mercster> er not racist
17:31 < Mercster> sexist
17:31 -!- Catonic_lp is now known as Catonic
17:31 <@polerin> evein if I have to wait paitently as people yell at me before I can explain them.
17:31 <@Catonic> polerin: that's a power game.
17:31 <@polerin> Dagmar: so male privilige exists.
17:31 < Mercster> polerin: you have to admit, it takes you a long time
17:31 <@polerin> Mercster: lol
17:31 <@polerin> cute
17:32 <@Dagmar> Someone fails to realize that it's damn near impossible to be "drowned out" on IRC since it's not audio-centric.
17:32 < Mercster> ;-)
17:32 <@polerin> Dagmar: you dispute it's power
17:32 <@Catonic> you assert dominance by screaming louder and over the other person.
17:32 <@Dagmar> polerin: It's non-uniqe.  Female priviledge exists as well.
17:32 <@polerin> Dagmar: actually I was talking about skype
17:32 <@polerin> not you
17:32 <@Catonic> hehe...
17:32 <@Catonic> skype is fun when you possess pro audio hardware.
17:33 <@polerin> Dagmar: again, it's statistically releivant, not to mention the priviliges themself and how they manifiest *are* very siginifigantly latched to male privilige.
17:33 <@Catonic> I can talk softly and still boom out of your speakers.
17:33 < Mercster> females can have babies...but to feminists, blinded by materialism, dont count this as a privildge, in fact quite a downside
17:33 <@Dagmar> Yeah no shit
17:33 <@polerin> Catonic: lol, wish I could. I pick up hella background noise.
17:33 < Mercster> course i dunno where we're gonna get humans from
17:33 < Mercster> "Where are you gonna keep the fetus, in a BOX?!"
17:33 <@Dagmar> OF COURSE actual male priviledges are "statistically revelant" because you're creating anotehr fucking circular argument
17:33 -!- C-P [n=HappyDan@ip65-46-14-94.z14-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #se2600
17:33 <@polerin> Mercster: actually I really wish I could have babies, and any number of feminists revel in choice.  Not just the choice to not have children, but the choice TO have children.
17:34 <@Dagmar> Do you understand what a circular argument is?
17:34 <@polerin> Dagmar: no, I'm not. I'm saying that it exists.
17:34 <@polerin> yes I know what a circular argument is
17:34 <@Dagmar> Then WHY do you keep making them
17:34 <@Catonic> estrogen.
17:34 <@Catonic> the source of all arguments.
17:34 < Mercster> polerin: ok well, "female priviledge" then, it has the same accuracy as "male priviledge"...sometimes it exists, and sometimes it doesnt. so as labels they're useless and potentially offensive, which is what Dagmar i think is trying to say
17:34 <@polerin> and my argument hasn't bent yet.  I'm saying that male privilge exists.  you agree.  You also add that female privilige exists and that it is equivlilent.  I agree on the first part and disagree on the second.
17:35 <@Dagmar> You don't get to disagree on the second.
17:35 <@Catonic> oh fuck that.
17:35 <@polerin> we can hash out that disagree ment exists
17:35 <@polerin> but I want to finish out the last word
17:35 <@polerin> that white privilige exists.
17:35 <@Dagmar> No we can't.
17:35 <@Catonic> women don't want to work. They work because they have to.
17:35 <@polerin> Dagmar: we can, then we can come back to it.  I'd like to finish my definition before you start picking it out
17:36 <@polerin> Catonic: yes I've no interest in working, nor does melissa
17:36 <@polerin> great thanks
17:36 <@Catonic> because it's the only modern way of asserting non-reliance on a male figure in her life.
17:36 <@polerin> :)
17:36 <@Dagmar> You don't get to disagree on the second because of *bias*
17:36 <@polerin> Dagmar: you don't get to dissagree with me on the second point because of bias either
17:36 -!- Neoteric [n=timball@mail.sunlightfoundation.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:36 <@Dagmar> Yes, I do.
17:36 <@polerin> which meens that we'll have to get WAAAAAYYY down into it
17:36 <@polerin> oh
17:36 <@Catonic> the order of the species is that the men of the tribe go out and hunt, and the women sit around and do stuff and raise kids.
17:36 <@Dagmar> Because I"m the one making the argument that there's equivalency.
17:36 <@polerin> so I don't get to be biased but you do?
17:36 <@polerin> lol
17:37 <@polerin> that doesn't make any sense dag
17:37 <@Catonic> but the man only needs to be around for about three years, give or take, until his offspring is "viable"
17:37 <@Catonic> that's the woman's perspective.
17:37 <@Dagmar> polerin: neither does "white male privilege"
17:37 <@brimstone> gotta keep'em seperated
17:37 <@polerin> Dagmar: again we are going there
17:37 <@Catonic> the guy's perspective is that he doesn't need to be around more than five minutes, or "till I cum do we part."
17:37 <@Dagmar> ...as put forth by that radical feminist news article slash propaganda piece
17:38 <@polerin> Catonic: actually ... I think most women would prefer to have the men around (in general) for far longer, so they are not asked to take the entire burden of raising a child onto themself
17:38 <@polerin> Dagmar: come again what?
17:38 <@Catonic> that's a modern concept
17:38 <@Dagmar> I can't help but think that if it takes you a half a fucking hour to complete a simple explanation, then you actually *don't* have a clue
17:38 < Mercster> it takes two to raise a child, one gets the meat and one handles the brat. it was that way in caves, it's that way now
17:38 <@Catonic> caveman-speaking, if the kid can feed itself, it's viable.
17:38 <@polerin> Dagmar: it doesn't help that you take forever to actually answer anything
17:38 <@polerin> Dagmar: and hat I'm having to spell things out a very basic level
17:39 <@Dagmar> You are too brainwashed by the damn victim-centric media you've been reading to see a circular argument when it's staring you in the face, because they make so many arguments based on the "I feel bad about it" factor as judgement criteria
17:39 <@Catonic> 40 minutes of this argument and I feel worn out.
17:39 <@Dagmar> THE SEXES ARE DIFFERENT.  DEAL WITH IT.
17:39 <@Dagmar> BLAMING ONE OF THEM FOR ANYTHING BOTH PARTICIPATE IN IS STUPID AND USELESS.
17:39 <@polerin> White privilige.  In this case, not having a history of poverty due to racism (social and legal),
17:39 <@Catonic> amen brother Dagmar
17:39 <@polerin> Dagmar: and you're yelling again awesome.
17:40 <@polerin> do you slam on your keyboard while you're doing that?
17:40 <@Dagmar> No, I'm typing in all caps.
17:40 <@polerin> which is the irc equivilent of yelling. :P
17:40 <@polerin> anyhow.
17:40 <@Dagmar> ...because it highlights that what I'm typing is ludicrously, lolcats-like simple.
17:40 <@Catonic> please, no...
17:40  * Catonic wanders off
17:40 <@polerin> why do I bother
17:41 <@polerin> really
17:41 <@polerin> :
17:41 <@polerin> :P
17:41 <@Catonic> I'm going to take a shit. When I get back, I'm going to flush the bowl, and the channel.
17:41 -!- ShadowHntr [n=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr] has joined #se2600
17:41 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o ShadowHntr] by ChanServ
17:41 <@polerin> Catonic: thanks for the detail.
17:41  * polerin is done with this
17:42 <@polerin> perhaps I can convince lissa to go to a movie :P
17:42 <@Dagmar> You bother because you can't stop constructing circular arguments to make excuses
17:42  * polerin headdesks
17:42 <@polerin> excuses for what dag?
17:42 <@polerin> what am I excusing?
17:42 < Mercster> Dagmar: you put another coin in polerin
17:43 <@polerin> Mercster: actually dag put in another coin
17:43 <@polerin> I was trying to walk away ;p
17:43 < Mercster> ya thats what i said
17:43 <@polerin> Dagmar: if you want to talk about debate class, what does debate class tell you about attacking a person rather than an argument.
17:43 < Mercster> usually works
17:43 < Mercster> especially when the other side cries abou tit
17:43 < Mercster> about tits
17:44 <@polerin> hehe
17:44 < Synx_hm> some reason my ubuntu netbook install wont boot today
17:44 < Synx_hm> :(
17:44 < Mercster> Synx_hm: which netbook?
17:44 < Synx_hm> acer aspire one
17:45 < Synx_hm> says stage 1.5 fail today
17:45 < Mercster> Synx_hm: i want one of those dell mini 9s
17:45 <@polerin> it's usually a sign that the attacking person isn't engaging in the debate, but rather is trying to weaken the other person through attempts to lower how their opponent is perceived :P
17:45 < Synx_hm> i installed it yesterday and it rebooted fine :(
17:45 <@polerin> anyway I'm done for a bit
17:45 <@Dagmar> polerin: It tells me it's more amusing than listening to circular arguments.
17:45 <@Dagmar> ...because it's at least a moral victory to irritate the thick.
17:45 < Synx_hm> Mercster: i got the aspire one and put 32gb of flash compact flash and an extra gig of ram in it
17:45 <@polerin> awesome
17:45 < Mercster> Synx_hm: cool
17:46 <@polerin> so far
17:46 <@polerin> I'm thick, half-awake, semi-intelligent, fully engaged in a victim mentality, and full of other peoples crazy kool-aid (or something along those lines)
17:46 <@Dagmar> So far, we have "white male priviledge" as cited by that shrill news article is a hasty generalization and therefore UNTRUE.
17:47 < Mercster> almost time for jim lehrer
17:47 <@Dagmar> ...and you have wasted at least 45 minutes arguing utterly unsuccessfully that this is not the case.
17:47 <@polerin> Mercster: mmmm jim lehrer
17:47 <@polerin> I did waste 45 minutes, you're right.  Probably unsuccessfully, but that's not even the arguments fault
17:48 <@Dagmar> The only thing I can conclude from this is that you just don't have to chops to actually see the truth of the matter.
17:48 <@polerin> if anything it's due to my inability to get you to come to the table and even finish a full definition of what the phrase meens before we start aguing about if its valid or not
17:48 <@polerin> and if I can't even do that
17:48 <@Dagmar> ...because you've decided that such a thing exists, even if the name being used for it doesn't fit and is more commonly used to promote even GREATER fallacies...
17:48 <@polerin> Its not an argument I'm going to continue
17:48 <@Dagmar> ...and that no one is going to tell you different no matter how much logic they use.
17:49 <@polerin> Dagmar: hell you as much as admitted it existed, you just disagree about it's power
17:49 <@Dagmar> It's sexist, racist propaganda.  Deal with it.
17:49 <@polerin> you admitted male privilige existed, but you say that females have equivilent privilige
17:49 <@Dagmar> No, I didn't "agree" it existed.
17:49 <@polerin> thats fine
17:49 <@polerin> it still EXISTS
17:49 <@polerin> you did
17:49 < Mercster> polerin: it was pretty well established that 'white male power' was a phrase with some truth. some fiction, just as 'female black power' would be. so dont get offended or argue with Dagmar if he wants to refer to black female power all the time
17:49 <@Dagmar> No, I didn't, and that you don't have the intelligence to understand that is part of your problem.
17:49 < Mercster> but of course you would
17:49 <@polerin> you didn't agree about the white part becuase I gave up before we got to it, but come on
17:49 <@Dagmar> Now, if you con't like me inpugning your intelligence, perhaps you should make an effort next time.
17:50 < Mercster> because you're a radical "THAT'S NOT FAIR"-ite
17:50 <@polerin> Mercster: lol
17:50 <@polerin> Mercster: Oh that's not the issue.
17:50 < Mercster> Dagmar: just start referencing black female power all the time
17:50 <@polerin> dag's unwillingness to agree with himself is really annoying
17:50 < Mercster> Dagmar: you are at liberty to do so
17:50 <@Dagmar> No the issue is clearly looking to blame a big group for the actions of another minority.
17:50 < Mercster> Dagmar: since it is in some context existant
17:50 <@polerin> Mercster: and I'll laugh my ass off.
17:51 < Mercster> polerin wants to generalize to satisfy her worldview, you are free to do the same
17:51 < Mercster> now you nitwits can stop blathering
17:51 < Mercster> IVE SOLVED EVERYTHIGN
17:51 <@Dagmar> I'd rather not, thanks.
17:52 <@polerin> Mercster: actually i'm not genralizing, the thing is that it's not as simple as white male privilige, but those are two of the more commonly noted priviliges
17:52 <@polerin> you can also talk about being able bodied, straight, sighted, any number of t hings
17:52 <@polerin> most of which I end up actually having.
17:52 < Mercster> so when do you rail against sighted people?
17:52 <@polerin> and I admit that they give me social power
17:52 <@polerin> Mercster: when people make stupid comments about people who can't see well?
17:53 < Mercster> if you were using 'white male power' innocuously, it might be a different story
17:53 < Mercster> but to pretend that you werent referencing it in a negative light would be disingenuous on your part
17:53 <@polerin> I wasn't using "white male power" in a negative manner
17:53 <@polerin> hell I wasn't even using it
17:53 < Mercster> ok now you're being disingenuous
17:53 <@polerin> I just wanted someone to get a laugh from the fucking video!
17:53 < Mercster> i.e. "lying"
17:53 <@polerin> Seriously
17:53 <@Dagmar> Actually, it might be easier, or at least statistically more correct, to call it "white racist priviledge"
17:53 < Mercster> k
17:53 <@polerin> I posted the video
17:53 <@Dagmar> It would certainly be a more "honest" way to put it, sincce that's what's being implied
17:54 <@polerin> so people could see rush getting called on his shit by barbara walters
17:54 <@polerin> that's not a feminist thing
17:54 <@polerin> thats not a white thing
17:54 <@polerin> thats a "I fucking hate rush" thing
17:54 <@Dagmar> It's a propaganda thing.
17:54 <@Dagmar> It's not news.
17:54 <@polerin> and I thought that people in here would find it ammusing
17:54 <@polerin> Dagmar: oh so fucking what?
17:54 <@polerin> Dagmar: like that's not all the time in here
17:54 <@Dagmar> It should be a suprise to exactly no one that Walters can beat Limbaugh in an argument.
17:54 <@polerin> Dagmar: and it can still be FUNNY
17:55 <@polerin> and it can still be satisfying for people that have to put up with the same kind of shit day after day that comes out of his mouth
17:55 <@polerin> I thought people might get satisfaction and a laugh from it
17:55 <@polerin> and instead of that
17:55 <@polerin> you jumped on me about a term in an article I linked
17:55 <@polerin> next time you link something with sexism or homophobia on it, can I jump all over you?
17:55 <@polerin> oh I'm sorry
17:55 <@polerin> those things don't exist
17:55 < Mercster> i dont mind rush, he's pretty good at rhetoric and again, largely an entertainer
17:56 <@polerin> Mercster: I wish rhetoric was taught at schools still
17:56 < Mercster> i view him in the same vein as howard stern
17:56 <@polerin> it's sadly lacking in our culture
17:56 <@polerin> yeah i'm not exactly fond of stern either, though that likely doesn't supprise you
17:56  * Mercster shrugs
17:56 < Mercster> i dont pretend to know who you do or dont like
17:56 < Mercster> i dont even know who you are
17:57 <@polerin> heh
17:57 <@polerin> i'm nobody
17:57 <@polerin> :)
17:57 <@polerin> but nobody with a big mouth and a very hard head
17:57 -!- TieFighter [n=TieFight@DHCP-129-59-171-195.n1.vanderbilt.edu] has joined #se2600
17:57 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o TieFighter] by ChanServ
17:58 <@polerin> hi TieFighter :)
17:58 <@TieFighter> Whats up
18:02 <@Dagmar> *sigh*
18:02 <@Dagmar> No one has to "put up with" Rush Limbaugh.  He's very easy to ignore.
18:02 <@polerin> Dagmar: I was refering to all the dittoheads
18:02 <@Dagmar> Like that fat fuck on 99.7 in the mid-afternoon, you just gotta turn the dial
18:03 <@polerin> which you may be able to ignore, but I have to listen to at work
18:03 <@Dagmar> Well, if they're spouting racist, sexist dogma, tape 'em and bring those tapes to HR.
18:03 <@Dagmar> Problem solved.
18:03 <@polerin> Dagmar: I don't have an hr
18:03 <@Dagmar> Then find a lawyer.
18:03 <@polerin> I work for a company of 8, who I genrally like
18:04 <@Dagmar> Either way, whining about being a victim and doing nothing is a waste.  :/
18:04 <@polerin> and I don't feel like suing
18:04 <@polerin> so
18:04 < Mercster> Dagmar: so YOU WILL PAY
18:04 <@polerin> I am allowed watching rush called on his shit
18:04 <@Dagmar> Argue, sue, suck it up, or quit.
18:04 -!- [1]tcstool [n=tcstool@74-44-68-147.dsl1.clkvl.tn.frontiernet.net] has joined #se2600
18:04 <@polerin> I *am* sucking it up.  and I deal with it.  By enjoying watching rush getting called on his shit.
18:04 <@polerin> it's the little things in life
18:05 <@Dagmar> Ya might want to visit propaganda sites a little less.
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18:05 <@polerin> yah might want to stick your head outside the libertarian bubble a little more
18:05 <@polerin> but that's ok
18:06 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Dagmar] by ChanServ
18:06 <@polerin> everyone has  the right to their opinions
18:06 -!- Neoteric [n=timball@c-98-233-94-192.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
18:06 <@brimstone> polerin: go to a 2600 meeting already
18:06 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Neoteric] by ChanServ
18:06 <@Dagmar> ... ^E is bound to SELF_INSERT
18:06 <@Dagmar> saving the fucking configu
18:06 <@Dagmar> I hit those fucking buttons at least once a day
18:08 <@polerin> heh
18:08 <@polerin> brimstone: I might, but not today.
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18:13 <@remoford> goddamn
18:13 <@remoford> i saw polerin and dag arguing
18:13 <@remoford> so i scrolled up
18:13 <@ShadowHntr> lol
18:13 <@polerin> lol
18:13 <@remoford> took me for fucking ever to get back to the bottom
18:13 <@remoford> and here is my analysis
18:13 <@remoford> white male privlidge does exist
18:13 <@polerin> remoford: yeah genrally when we go at it, the result is sorta wordy
18:13 -!- oddball [n=oddball@c-69-180-225-98.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
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18:13 <@remoford> however, its pretty minor
18:13 <@Catonic> jeez
18:13 -!- scoil [i=am@unaffiliated/coil] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
18:13 <@remoford> and calling it makes you an asshat
18:13 < peaches84> hey Catonic
18:14 <@remoford> in the same fashion that calling the lower iq scores of blacks makes you an asshat
18:14 -!- critch [n=critch@c-71-228-230-70.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
18:14 <@Catonic> hey peach
18:14 <@polerin> remoford: you note that I didn't bring it up at first, though I don't agree with the asshat statement.  I wasn't even trying to bring it up :P
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18:15 <@polerin> oi odball/critch
18:15 -!- peaches84 [n=user@DHCP-129-59-170-209.n1.vanderbilt.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
18:15 <@Catonic> that's right folks, it's time for another episode of Asshats Anonymous
18:15 -!- peaches84 [n=user@DHCP-129-59-170-209.n1.vanderbilt.edu] has joined #se2600
18:15 <@remoford> my name is remo
18:15 <@remoford> and im an asshat
18:16 <@Dagmar> I thought you were more of an assfedora
18:16 <@remoford> actually yes
18:16 <@Dagmar> heh
18:16 <@remoford> altho i had no idea you actually knew who i am
18:17 <@Dagmar> THin, tall, short blondish-brown hair, not muhc of it
18:17 <@remoford> HAIRIST
18:17 <@Dagmar> See!
18:17 <@Dagmar> It's that haired male privilege
18:18  * Catonic hides his hairist roots
18:18 <@remoford> ok you got the fedora and the somewhat tall
18:18 <@remoford> overwise no
18:18 <@remoford> im fat as hell
18:18 <@Catonic> I like blondes so much, I became one.
18:18 <@remoford> as the french say
18:18 <@remoford> gross
18:18 <@Dagmar> White male privilege: When a white guy cuts another white guy off in traffic, he gets yelled at slightly less.
18:19 <@Dagmar> Rich fucker priviledge: Taking 800 billion dollars from the government and handing it out to your rich fucker friends
18:19 <@remoford> well
18:19 <@remoford> you might as well just get over that shit
18:19 <@Dagmar> \Now if everyone else would we might get somewhere
18:19 <@remoford> unless you are building a bunch of guillotines in your basement
18:20 <@Dagmar> ...but no.... they always wanna blame "whitey"
18:20 <@timoguin> I know I do.
18:20 <@Dagmar> ...when statistically speaking, "whitey" is JUST as fucking poor and powerless as they are
18:20 <@remoford> white male privlidge is having a small penis
18:20 <@Dagmar> You know, I thought about that earlier, but elected to not go "there" with the corollary, "black male priviledge"
18:20 <@remoford> wooo
18:20 <@polerin> http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/002484.html
18:21 <@polerin> Real median income did not change between 2002 and 2003 for non-Hispanic white households (about $48,000), black households (about $30,000) or Asian households (about $55,500).
18:21 <@polerin> try again
18:21 <@remoford> ao
18:21 <@remoford> its all about asian privlidge then?
18:21 <@polerin> yup
18:21 <@polerin> timoguin: your fucking fault ;p
18:21 <@Dagmar> So, you're saying that hispanics either did better or more poorly than blacks, whites, and asians.
18:21 <@Dagmar> HOW DARE THEY!
18:21 <@remoford> funny how the income numbers match up damn near exactly to the IQ numbers
18:22 <@polerin> Households with Hispanic householders (who can be of any race) experienced a real decline in median income of 2.6 percent between 2002 and 2003.
18:22 <@Dagmar> *Probably* because of 12 million or so illegals
18:22 <@remoford> i bet ashananzi jews have a huge average household income
18:22 <@Dagmar> Broken statistics are broken.
18:23 <@remoford> ill say this, and ill think dag will agree
18:23 <@Dagmar> No wait, it was only about 4.5-5 million illegals then wasn't it
18:23 <@polerin> Dagmar: you're asuming that they are able to collect good statistics from that group, or even that we have an accurate group.  I'd say that both of those assumptions are shaky at best.
18:23 <@remoford> i, as a white male, refuse to be self loathing
18:23 <@Dagmar> It's census data.
18:23 <@polerin> remoford: good, Please don't be.
18:23 <@polerin> that's fucking annoying
18:23 <@Dagmar> They go door to fucking door.
18:24 <@Dagmar> If you werne't canvased, you have no mailbox AND live in a tent down by the river in a place even the Census people won't drive out to
18:24 <@Dagmar> They're fucking *thorough*
18:24 <@polerin> Dagmar: and you as an illegal citizen anwer random people knocking on your door looking like a federal employee?
18:24 <@Dagmar> If you don't fill out the book they send you, they send someone out to your house, possibly with the sheriff even
18:24 <@remoford> HAHAHA
18:24 <@remoford> "illegal citizen"
18:24 <@polerin> if you'll look more deeply you'll notice that there are actuall real issues taking censuses of that group
18:24 <@remoford> not a fucking citizen
18:24 <@remoford> jesus
18:24 <@polerin> I wasn't pulling that out of my ass
18:24 <@Dagmar> polerin: There are no "illegal citizens"
18:25 <@polerin> sorry, not paying attention
18:25 <@polerin> Undocumented resident then?
18:25 <@polerin> :P
18:25 <@Dagmar> ...and if you're so crazy paranoid you can't handle census takers, you *really* don't need to be in the US.
18:25 <@Dagmar> They're not "residents" either.
18:25 <@polerin> they don't live here?
18:25 <@Dagmar> They are, in fact, illegal aliens.
18:26 <@remoford> ok
18:26 <@remoford> so
18:26 <@Dagmar> "Residents" is a specific technical term.
18:26 <@remoford> lets get back to the earlier topic
18:26 <@polerin> Dagmar: meaning "Someone who lives in the area."
18:26 <@polerin> :P
18:26 <@Dagmar> It doesn't mean what you're trying to say it does there any more than when I say "aliens" it means they come from outer space.
18:26 <@Dagmar> They are aliens, they are here illegally.
18:26 <@remoford> (06:22:05 PM) polerin: Households with Hispanic householders (who can be of any race) experienced a real decline in median income of 2.6 percent between 2002 and 2003.
18:26 <@Dagmar> All this other shit is just political correctness.
18:26 <@remoford> so
18:26 <@remoford> why is that polerin?
18:27 <@polerin> remoford: I only posted that because of what dag said about the stats
18:27 <@remoford> its it cause of whitey?
18:27 <@polerin> I doin't know what those numbers are
18:27 <@Drag0n> illegal alien, is tat so hard to understand, its a perfect description, they are here illegally
18:27 <@polerin> Drag0n: it's a misdemenor :P
18:27 -!- Neoteric [n=timball@c-98-233-94-192.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["Hey!  Where'd my controlling terminal go?"]
18:27 < peaches84> hello polerin
18:28 <@Drag0n> shoplifting is a misdemenor, but its still illegal
18:28 <@polerin> Drag0n: you could also say they aer illegal residents, or undocumented aliens
18:28 <@Dagmar> polerin: To put it bluntly, you can't be a "resident" without papers.
18:28 <@polerin> but instead everyone chooses the most loaded term :P
18:28 <@polerin> Dagmar: where does it say that
18:28 <@polerin> please
18:28 <@Dagmar> Hmm... here's one place http://thetaxguy.com/residency.htm
18:28 <@polerin> tell me how a piece of paer makes you a legal resident
18:28 <@remoford> im going to choose the term "wetbacks"
18:29 <@polerin> what about people who are born out in the fuckhills, and never get a ss card etc?
18:29 <@Dagmar> You are a *nonresident* if you are here illegally, or if you are on a temporary visa
18:29 <@Dagmar> This isn't complex stuff.
18:29 <@Dagmar> It's pretty damn straightforward.
18:29 <@Drag0n> i dont care if the reside in the white house, if they are here illegaly, they are an illegal alien
18:29 <@Dagmar> ...but there's people who want to create sympathy for the illegals who have NO problem misusing the English language
18:30 <@remoford> yeah
18:30 <@remoford> tis bullshit
18:30 <@Drag0n> they dont belong, get rid of em
18:30 <@remoford> that i dont agree with
18:30 <@Dagmar> Saying they're "undocumented residents" in the context of that conversation is just as much an error as labeling bathrooms "Gentlemen and Women" or "Men and Ladies".
18:30 <@remoford> damn near this whole country's ancestry are immigrants
18:30 <@remoford> whatever happened to give us your poor
18:31 <@Dagmar> There's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_resident
18:31 <@remoford> why do they have to "sneak" in
18:31 <@remoford> that my issue
18:31 <@remoford> im for open borders
18:31 <@Drag0n> yeah, and they all went through the legal process, through propper procedures
18:31 <@polerin> Drag0n: hahah right.
18:31 <@polerin> ok
18:31 <@remoford> and a free teach yourself english textbook for anyone that wants to show the fuck up
18:31 <@Dagmar> heh
18:31 <@polerin> remoford: also, people who are here can't even get through the system, how are people who are outside.
18:31 <@polerin> anyway
18:31 <@polerin> fuckit, I'm done
18:32 <@remoford> Drag0n: yes, shooting the indians was the legal process
18:32 <@remoford> so that argument is some bullshit
18:32 <@Dagmar> If they showed up "normally" with papers and eveyrthing, they'd have to pay taxes
18:32 <@Dagmar> ...which would eliminate the reason they came in the first place, so they could work for rich people and not pay taxes
18:32 <@remoford> but
18:32 <@remoford> even paying taxes
18:32 <@polerin> Dagmar: and they could get benifits and not have to work in sweatshops, and not have to sleep 10 to a house, and not have to worry about getting sick and having your doctor legally copelled to refuse you service and turn you in
18:33 <@remoford> they would be getting more than the 1-2$/hr that is typical sidewalk mexican pay
18:33 <@polerin> Dagmar: becasue taxes are SUCH a big deal for them
18:33 <@Drag0n> at the time, yes, not the most humane, or neighborly, and one i dont agree with either
18:33 <@polerin> what the fuck ever.
18:33 <@polerin> that's pure bullshit.
18:33 <@Dagmar> Apparently all that beats the hell out of living in Mexico or they wouldln't be coming here
18:33 <@remoford> they would be getting at least minimum wage
18:33 <@remoford> (06:31:50 PM) polerin: fuckit, I'm done
18:33 <@remoford> polerin
18:33 <@Dagmar> It's not hard to fill out immigration papers, and waiting isn't that big of a deal either
18:33 <@remoford> either quit or dont
18:33 <@polerin> Dagmar: or apparently they can't make enough to support their family, so they leave the people they love to make a dangerous border crossing, live in a society where they are not valued other than as a strong back, and are subjected to constant racisim and harassment.
18:34 <@remoford> but quit saying your are going to quit then keep in going you motherfucking flip flopper
18:34 <@polerin> so, yeah, apparently so.
18:34 <@Dagmar> Importing poverty however, is a pretty serious economy-wrecker.
18:34 <@polerin> remoford: the constant stream of crap that just flows in here and is blythly accepted as gospel really makes me sick
18:34 <@remoford> it is?
18:34 <@polerin> but fuck it, I don't care.
18:34 <@Dagmar> polerin: Yeah, fuck the laws.  Everyone should just do what they want all the time, no matter what the law, who's lives it messes with or any of that
18:35 <@remoford> damn straight fuck the law
18:35 <@polerin> Dagmar: or how about we look at the causes of why people are coming across
18:35 <@remoford> why do you feel beholden to the fucking goverment?
18:35 <@Dagmar> The causes are Mexico, Mexico, and Mexico.
18:35 <@Dagmar> All three of which are beyond our control.
18:35 <@Drag0n> my biggest issue with the immigration problem isnt the mexicans coming over, they work hard for what they get, its the bloody cannuks coming over for the medical care and the the potential of terrorists coming across the same border, were too woried about the mexican border
18:35 <@Dagmar> Next!
18:35 <@remoford> awesome
18:35 <@remoford> terrorists
18:35 <@Dagmar> Drag0n: Canuks coming to hte *US* for medical care?
18:35 <@remoford> the new hitler
18:35 <@Dagmar> You sure you got that right>?
18:36 <@remoford> actually yes
18:36 <@remoford> if they can afford the good proecdures
18:36 <@Dagmar> Canadians come to the US for medicine?
18:36 <@Drag0n> for the care they cant wait for
18:36 <@polerin> Dagmar: actually mexico's economy is integrally linked with ours.  You might be interested in the effects that treaties like NAFTA have had on the lower economies (and the upper as well actually)
18:36 <@remoford> that simply do not even exist under socialized medicine
18:36 <@polerin> remoford: don't talk to me about mecdicine right now
18:36 <@remoford> i wasnt talking to you
18:36 <@Dagmar> Ah well, either way, there's not twelve goddamn million Canucks
18:36 <@Dagmar> ...and at least they're paying
18:37 <@remoford> also white
18:37 <@polerin> my sister in law has a DVT and a suspect second as well, and she was told by her doctor that she should just go to the ER even though she had an appointment for that day
18:37 <@polerin> which doesn't really do anything
18:37 <@remoford> so its hard to tell a canuckistani from a yankee
18:37 <@polerin> except say Yeah you've got issues, go to your doctor
18:37 <@remoford> or at least i find it difficult
18:37 <@polerin> which told her AGAIN to go to the ER
18:37 <@polerin> just because she only has medicare
18:37 <@polerin> and the doctor doesn't want to take it.
18:38 <@polerin> anyway.
18:38 <@remoford> yes anyway
18:38 <@remoford> back to mexicans
18:38 -!- polerin [n=erin@c-71-228-216-37.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["i'm really done, I can't watch it go by and not say anything"]
18:38 <@remoford> so dag
18:38 <@remoford> why is it bad for the economy for poor mexicans to come to the us
18:38 <@Drag0n> the canadians pay cash, so they get preferential treatment because they dont have to deal with the insurance fiaso
18:38 <@Dagmar> Because it's importing poverty
18:38 <@remoford> or imporitng poverty in general
18:39 <@remoford> ok why is importing poverty bad
18:39 <@Dagmar> This, by definition, reduces the income of the lower brackets
18:39 <@remoford> so, it created competition amongst poor people?
18:39 <@Drag0n> i dont have an issue with the mexicans coming and working, as long as we can keep track of them, make the paperwork  and tracking system easier, but lock down on illegals
18:39 <@Dagmar> It means the people who would normally be filling those minimum wage jobs are now being *undercut* by people making even less.
18:39 <@remoford> eg, the crappiest poor ppl get poorer
18:39 <@remoford> and the better poor ppl arent as ppor
18:40 <@Dagmar> ...and people who would we doing hard jobs that would pay more than minimum wage are also likely finding themselves underbid by people willing to live on even less.
18:40 <@remoford> sounds like capitialism to me
18:40 <@Dagmar> remoford: The "better" poor people also get poorer
18:40 <@Dagmar> Shit slides downhill.
18:40 <@remoford> this sounds like a zero sum argument
18:40 <@ShadowHntr> does it?
18:40 <@Dagmar> Capitalism assumes there's a limit to both ends of the market
18:41 <@remoford> tell you what
18:41 <@Dagmar> When you import poverty, you lower the standard of living.
18:41 <@remoford> id like to persue this, but i need to go have a cigarette
18:41 <@Dagmar> "Normal" americans who are poor probably at least have a room to themselves.
18:41 <@remoford> as ive spent the last 3 hrs reading you and polerin arguing then getting into it myself
18:41 <@remoford> so hold on just a sec and ill be back
18:41 <@Dagmar> Let that standard of living unravel further by importing a lot of poverty and they won't have even that
18:42 <@Dagmar> I too, shall have a cigarette
18:47  * Catonic takes over the channel
18:48  * Catonic releases the channel
18:51 < Mercster> thx
18:52 <@remoford> man its fucking cold out there
18:52 <@remoford> lemme know when you are back dag
18:55 <@Dagmar> back
18:55 <@Dagmar> It's definitely cold outside
18:58 <@remoford> so
18:58 <@remoford> with more lower end workers
18:59 <@remoford> wouldnt the economy have a chance to grow
18:59 <@Dagmar> Nope.
18:59 <@remoford> or can only rich fucks have positive impact
18:59 <@Dagmar> It _lowers_ the lower end.
19:00 <@Dagmar> Without paying taxes, it overextends the work needed by emergency and public services, without increasing the money to support these services.
19:00 <@Dagmar> ...which means larger classes for public schools, since there's no additional tax dollars to pay for more facilities or teachers.
19:01 <@Dagmar> Longer lines at the emergency room.
19:01 <@Dagmar> Longer waits for ambulances.
19:01 <@Dagmar> More fires, with no new firefighters, etc etc
19:02 <@remoford> ok
19:02 <@remoford> for the sake of argument
19:03 <@remoford> say they were all legl
19:03 <@remoford> still poor and uneducated
19:03 <@remoford> but paying taxes
19:03 <@remoford> cause i agree that illegal is of no help to society
19:03 <@Dagmar> Then they'd be paying taxes, so the burden would be lessened, but it would still lower the standard of living.
19:03 <@Dagmar> ...because it would be an influx of, like you said, the poor and uneducated.
19:03 <@remoford> how about the h1b visa folks
19:03 <@remoford> educated and not so poor
19:03 <@Dagmar> There's a set number of those.
19:03 <@remoford> also creating more competition
19:04 <@remoford> a set number of what?
19:04 <@Dagmar> ...and it's not "however many can cross the river"
19:04 <@remoford> ah
19:04 <@Dagmar> A set number of work visas
19:04 <@remoford> even so
19:04 <@remoford> are they good or bad for the economey
19:04 <@remoford> i know they make it harder for us techies to get jobs
19:04 <@Dagmar> If the number of those were unrestricted, it would dilute that market for native workers.
19:05 <@remoford> and you dont think the market would grow to fit
19:05 <@Dagmar> No, I don't.
19:05 <@remoford> so, basically, you are against immigration in general
19:05 <@Dagmar> No, I'm not.
19:05 <@remoford> legal, illegal, poor, not poor, educated, uneducated
19:05 <@remoford> as any combiniation dilutes the market
19:06 <@Dagmar> Like has been said, this place was built on immigrants, but at a rate the system could handle.
19:06 <@remoford> and fucks everyone else up
19:06 <@Dagmar> We had a serious people shortage then.
19:06 <@Dagmar> We don't now.
19:06 <@remoford> did we have a serious ppl shortage then?
19:06 <@Dagmar> What we do have is an education shortage.
19:06 <@Dagmar> ...which is only getting worse.
19:06 <@remoford> yes and no
19:07 <@remoford> im not for *everyone* getting a college degree and such
19:07 <@remoford> ill agree that basic education is pretty dismal
19:08 <@remoford> but i dont think that more higher education really helps so much as it insures that ppl will have shitloads of student taxes, a peice of paper and still work at mcdonalds
19:08 <@remoford> s/taxes/loans/
19:08 <@Dagmar> H1b's aren't handed out to "just anybody" either.
19:09 <@Dagmar> An argument has to be made by the employer that they could not find people with the requisite skills from the local market.
19:12 <@remoford> that argument is commonly bullshit tho
19:12 <@remoford> plenty of ppl get laid off and replaced by h1bs
19:12 <@Catonic> I don't see anyone advertising the skills I have or might consider getting
19:12 <@Dagmar> Of course it's bullshit.
19:12 <@remoford> perhaps requisite skills on the local market at stupid low wages
19:12 <@Dagmar> Businesses are by their nature, amoral.
19:12 <@remoford> true
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19:13 <@remoford> and you hit it with amoral, not immoral
19:13 <@Dagmar> They'll misrepresent facts, misconstrue details, do anything they can to increase the bottom line.
19:13 <@remoford> ppl attribute malice that just insnt there
19:13 <@Catonic> businesses are psychopathic and sociopathic
19:13 <@Dagmar> This is because I know the difference between immorality and amorality.
19:13 <@Catonic> the malice is there..
19:13 <@Catonic> it's people behind it
19:13 <@remoford> nah
19:13 <@remoford> they really dont give a shit about you
19:14 <@remoford> and could care less if you sink or swin
19:14 <@Catonic> exactly.
19:14 <@Catonic> and that's the attitude the people in the corner office have.
19:14 <@Dagmar> At the end of the day what matters is "shareholder interest"
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19:14 <@Dagmar> ...which is why it baffles me we're not seeing the heads of Lehman and AIG on the end of sharp and pointy lawsuits
19:15 <@Dagmar> They *clearly* disregarded shareholder interest in favor of what looks good on the next quarterly report.
19:15 <@Dagmar> Like kids hiding a report card from mommy and daddy.
19:16 <@Dagmar> The cost *will* come due, all they did was postpone it and make things worse.
19:16 <@Catonic> there's something about life that feels really sad...
19:17 <@Catonic> when I can look at something and desperately want to tell management that... we can do this, if we get the money behind it. But if we half-ass this in any way, it's going to rain down frustration the likes of which you do not appreciate.
19:17 <@remoford> well
19:17 <@remoford> part of that is shareholder interest *is* what looks good on the next quarterly
19:17 <@remoford> when most ppl are speculating not investing
19:18 <@remoford> the difference in attitude is enormous
19:18 <@remoford> but they are both shareholders
19:18 <@remoford> and the speculators are much more vocal
19:18 < peaches84> so Catonic you been doing ok
19:19 <@Catonic> peaches84: nope.
19:21 <@remoford> well damn mr happy
19:21  * remoford beats the shit out of catonic until his moral improves
19:21 <@Catonic> remoford: walk a mile in my shoes.
19:22 <@remoford> i might not fit
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19:24 <@Dagmar> The problem being that when one quarterly report is basically "diddled" at the expense of the *next* one, there's a point at which this *completely collapses* instead of making creaking and cracking noises that let people know a change in the business model is in order.
19:26 <@Dagmar> Which is, hey... rather unastonishingly exactly whats
19:26 <@Dagmar> Which is, hey... rather unastonishingly exactly what's happened to a crapton of "investment banks" which should have known better, but they were just passing the buck
19:27 <@Dagmar> What I find really sickening about it is that a large portion of this comes from failed mortgages, which means that the bank says "tough shit, we're taking your house back *and* chasing after you for the next forever to make up the difference"
19:27 <@Dagmar> ...because that's what should be happening to these mortgage companies.  *Their* creditors should dismantle them and hound the former CEOs with lawsuits
19:28 <@remoford> yes
19:28 <@remoford> i was arguing that earlier
19:28 <@remoford> and everyone was all omg omg too big to fail
19:28 <@remoford> bullshit
19:28 <@Dagmar> Exactly.
19:28 <@remoford> take the hit
19:28 <@remoford> its better than the moral hazard weve created
19:28 <@Dagmar> That money went *somewhere*
19:29 <@remoford> and now we are running the risk of nationalizing large parts of the economy
19:29 <@remoford> fucking commies/democrats/republicans
19:29 <@remoford> im personally for going back to the stocks solution
19:29 <@remoford> not corporate stocks
19:30 <@remoford> but lock these guys in *the* stocks
19:30 <@dc0de> remoford: I agree...
19:30 <@remoford> and let the shareholders at them
19:30 <@remoford> with sticks
19:30 <@remoford> actually no
19:30 <@dc0de> but first, we need to take away 100% of their assets, liquidate them, and put the money back into the public's coffers
19:30 <@remoford> they can give them papercuts with their worthless stock certificates
19:31 <@remoford> well certianly we pauperize them first
19:31 <@remoford> ceos that fail need to be fucking destroyed
19:31 <@remoford> not bailed the fuck out
19:31 <@remoford> goddamn goverment
19:32 <@Catonic> hey dc0de
19:32 <@remoford> and all you motherfuckers that think obama is going to hep this shit
19:32 <@remoford> good luck
19:32 <@dc0de> remoford: it's not a government anymore, it's our new socialist republic
19:32 <@dc0de> sup Catonic
19:32 <@Catonic> dc0de: you get my email?
19:32 <@dc0de> dunno, just checking all my accounts now
19:32 <@remoford> umm, isnt a socialist republic a form of govermnet/
19:32 <@Catonic> I know that feeling.
19:33 <@remoford> national socialists even
19:33 <@remoford> nazis!
19:33 <@dc0de> Catonic: This one? "WOW! Santa Claus try our meds and fuck housewife and hher daughter!"
19:33 <@Catonic> this channel is apparently incapable of auto-Godwinating
19:33 <@dc0de> Catonic: where did you send it?
19:34 <@Catonic> dc0de: No, but if I find the bastard in charge of the McColo botnet, I'll shoot the motherfucker.
19:34 <@Catonic> noblesouth.
19:34 <@dc0de> don't see it.
19:34 <@dc0de> lemme check online to see if it went spam
19:35 <@remoford> yknow everyone says spam went down
19:35 <@remoford> but i swear my spam went up
19:35 <@remoford> or the gmail filters took a shit
19:38 <@Dagmar> It went down *for a few days* when they shut down that massive botnet.
19:38 <@Dagmar> Then the botnet operators got control of it again.
19:38 <@Dagmar> Shutting down the new ISP didn't have the same effect as before.
19:38 <@Catonic> dc0de: don't kill yourself.
19:38 <@Dagmar> So basically, what we need to do is start solving the spam problem the "russian" way
19:38 <@Dagmar> Shooting spammers in the head.
19:39 <@Dagmar> ...or Gitmo.
19:40 <@Dagmar> ...or the pillory.
19:40 <@Catonic> Russian, Chinese, Maylay... I don't care.
19:40 <@Dagmar> I'm *really* fond of the pillory for crimes against the citizenry as a hole.
19:40 <@Dagmar> s/hole/whole/;
19:40 <@Catonic> I just think the first one needs to die.
19:40 <@Dagmar> Already been done.
19:40 <@Catonic> That's the only thing that will make them think.
19:40 <@Dagmar> Big spammer in .ru took a few rounds to the head about five years ago.
19:40 <@Dagmar> The .ru gov't asked him to stop spamming.
19:41 <@Dagmar> The mafia asked him to stop spamming.
19:41 <@Dagmar> One of these two I feel solved the problem in a non-traditional, but highly effective manner.
19:42 <@Dagmar> Wooo not five years ago, three
19:42 <@Dagmar> http://conprotantor.blogspot.com/2005/07/russian-spammer-killed.html
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19:48 <@remoford> bah
19:48 <@remoford> they didnt want him to stop spamming
19:48 <@remoford> they wanted a cut of his profits
19:48 <@remoford> in either case tho, i applaud the action
19:49 <@remoford> i walked by doubleclicks cage today
19:49 <@remoford> i had a strong want to go out
19:49 <@remoford> buy a few liters of lemonade
19:49 <@remoford> and try to short out thier racks by pissing on them
19:49 <@remoford> but i wasnt sure if i could get the range
19:50 <@remoford> sometimes i amaze myself with my restraint
19:50 <@Catonic> sometimes I amaze myself.
19:50 <@remoford> amazing
19:50 <@Catonic> I look into two places that interest me, and I think: "I don't want to be a nerd."
19:51 <@remoford> i think its a requirement to have an ego thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis big to join #se2600
19:51 <@remoford> then dont be a nerd
19:51 <@remoford> go get yourself a wifebeater
19:51 <@remoford> go down to the 'neck bar
19:52 <@remoford> and get into a fistfight over which nascar driver is better
19:52 <@Catonic> I moved away from the 'neck bar.
19:52 <@Catonic> remoford: I don't roll like that. I'm a ninja.
19:52 <@Dagmar> So kill someone's family
19:53  * dc0de locks his doors
19:53 < Mercster> first sign of nerd: thinks he's a ninja
19:54 <@remoford> haha
19:54 <@remoford> ok next phreaknic
19:54 <@Catonic> they removed Disk Cleanup from Windows XP?
19:54 <@remoford> you and someninja are having a fight
19:54 <@remoford> there can only be one
19:54 < Mercster> Catonic: man that fucking thing tanked my install once
19:55 <@Catonic> remoford: less drinking and more remembering. I put a guy on the ground at PN.
19:55 < Mercster> Catonic: i dunno what it thot it was doing, but it wiped out lots of c:\windows
19:55 <@remoford> ok...
19:55 <@remoford> i have not been drinking
19:55 <@Catonic> Interestingly enough, apparently after he turned Maverick's t-shirt into a loincloth.
19:55 <@remoford> i tried like all hell to find a liquor store in this fucking town
19:55 <@remoford> but no dice
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19:56 <@Catonic> I had a reality check the other day; I stopped in at a burger king on Hwy 157 (exit 310) in Cullman...
19:56 <@Catonic> wearing my "free the hops" t-shirt.
19:56 <@remoford> in fact
19:56 <@remoford> once my pizza gets here
19:56 <@remoford> i think imma eat, call a cab
19:56 <@remoford> and tell him to take me somewhere i can get drunk
19:56 <@Catonic> The manager behind the counter made a comment about "Maybe we'll go wet this year."
19:57 <@Catonic> remoford: why not pay the pizza guy to drive you to a bar?
19:57 <@remoford> hmm
19:57 <@Catonic> he'd probably be cheaper, if he can fit you in the car.
19:57 <@remoford> i have no cash
19:57 <@Catonic> c'est la vie.
19:57 <@remoford> i could give him some of the pizza
19:57 <@remoford> but i guess most pizza ppl are sick of pizza
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19:58 <@Catonic> I should go to work in food or the mall or something
19:58 <@remoford> hell yes
19:58 <@Catonic> I'm just really concerned that if I get fed up at both jobs, I'll go insane.
19:58 <@remoford> you can be even lower on the socioeconomic ladder
19:58 <@Catonic> I've heard retail is a bitch.
19:58 <@remoford> srsly
19:58 <@remoford> so quit
19:58 < Mercster> i worked at taco bell once, when i was a kid, i got fired cuz i couldnt/wouldnt remember the slight differences in all the tacos
19:59 <@remoford> go find a better job
19:59 <@Catonic> I just want to do it for the social interaction and the discount on clothing.
19:59 <@remoford> enjoy telling your boss to fuck himself
19:59 <@remoford> and if you cant find a better one
19:59 <@Catonic> I would LOVE to tell my boss to go fuck himself. Sadly, that's not a very good thing to do where I work.
19:59 <@remoford> youll learn to be more appreciative
20:00 <@remoford> why not?
20:00 <@remoford> where do you work
20:00 <@Catonic> I'll put it this way... ever run for a political office?
20:01 <@remoford> nope
20:01 <@remoford> im unelectable
20:01 < Mercster> im not sure ive worked anywhere that telling your boss to fuck himself would be a great career movie
20:01 < Mercster> s/movie/move
20:01 <@remoford> id make ron paul look like a fucking commie
20:02 <@remoford> Mercster: meh
20:02 <@remoford> few places will actually give a bad reference anymore
20:02 <@remoford> as they are afraid of lawsuits
20:02 < Mercster> well, great job move then
20:03 <@Catonic> ok, enough irc, I have to get to work.
20:03 <@remoford> telling your boss to go fuck himself is very carthatic tho
20:03  * Catonic &
20:03 <@remoford> i tell my boss the like daily
20:03 <@remoford> luckily he just calls me a motherfucker and moves on
20:03 < Mercster> yea
20:03 <@remoford> but i did do it once in the non friendly manner
20:04 <@remoford> i wanted to go into a great big spiel about all the things wrong with the company
20:04 <@remoford> but i realized it would be a waste of both our time
20:04 <@remoford> so i left it at a simple fuck you i quit
20:05 <@remoford> i highly reccommend this
20:05 < Mercster> ive gotten mad and quit before
20:05 < Mercster> but, i really quit
20:07 <@Catonic> where I work, you only threaten that once.
20:07 <@Catonic> and you'd better be willing to walk.
20:12 < Mercster> what do you do, Catonic?
20:12 <@juice> Catonic, someone stole my car early this morning :(
20:12 <@Dagmar> I'm still trying to figure out why they stole it
20:13 <@remoford> i didnt threaten
20:13 <@remoford> i quit, moved to the other side of the missippii
20:13 <@remoford> juice: that fucking sucks
20:13 <@juice> big time
20:14 <@remoford> insurance?
20:14 <@Dagmar> You had theft insurance?
20:14 <@juice> not on an 85
20:14 <@juice> nope
20:14 <@juice> just liability
20:14 <@Dagmar> Suck.
20:14 <@remoford> was it a car worth having?
20:14 <@remoford> i mean it sucks either way
20:14 <@remoford> but it really sucks if it was a ferrari
20:14 <@Dagmar> It'll probably turn up wedged in the front of somwehre then
20:14 <@juice> sure I'd love a new car do I have any money no
20:14 <@juice> so I drove it it was reliable
20:15 <@juice> body was a little rough
20:15 <@juice> and it drank gas
20:15 <@juice> but it was worth having
20:17 <@remoford> you say this morning
20:17 <@remoford> like, stolen out of your driveway?
20:18 <@juice> from the street in front of the house
20:18 <@juice> sometime between 12am-7am
20:18 <@juice> but the neighbor thinks it was there at 10 til 6am
20:19 <@remoford> bad neigborhood?
20:19 <@juice> i walked out the house at 2:15 to head to work and it was gone
20:19 <@juice> not really I mean the area I live in is nice house
20:19 <@juice> but start going blocks away it gets worse
20:20 <@juice> but not that bad really til you get a few miles away
20:21 <@remoford> well hell
20:21 <@remoford> i guess you had best buy a gun and a webcam
20:21 <@Dagmar> Have you tried ircat
20:21 <@Dagmar> wrong chan
20:21 <@remoford> and another car
20:22 <@juice> yeah I had a cd player stolen about 4 months ago
20:22 <@juice> problem is neither timeI head anything
20:22 <@juice> hear
20:22 <@juice> d
20:22 <@juice> err
20:22 <@remoford> you need to get paranoid
20:22 <@remoford> wire that bitch up
20:23 <@juice> yeah I had thought about doing a thing to it a while back
20:23 < Falun|lab> take the tires off?
20:23 <@juice> that would prevent theft
20:23 <@juice> but I never got around to it
20:23 < Falun|lab> nobody's going to steal a car if you've got to put a tire or two on first
20:23 <@juice> and I also talked about an alarm
20:23 <@juice> I guess now I will get an alarm that sends me messages
20:23 <@Catonic> the guy I bought my first police car from took the computers out to keep them from getting stolen
20:23 <@juice> when it goes off
20:23 <@remoford> fuck an alarm
20:23 <@juice> via sms or keychain device
20:24 <@remoford> wire the drivers seat to eletrocute the fuck out of anyone that turns the engine on without engaging the safety
20:24 <@Catonic> juice: if you're looking for a new car, I can suggest a book you should read first
20:24 <@juice> yeah
20:24 <@juice> that too
20:24 <@juice> Catonic, I am pretty good with mechanics
20:24 <@Catonic> remoford: mantrapping is illegal
20:24 <@remoford> yes it is
20:25 <@juice> and so is theft
20:25 <@remoford> but you know who is going to be the first person to discover it?
20:25 <@juice> so ....
20:25 <@Catonic> I can fuck up a chevy caprice 16 ways from sunday and make it impossible to drive, but very easy to fix.
20:25 <@juice> lol
20:25 <@remoford> here is what you do
20:26 <@remoford> right before you get to your parking spot
20:26 <@remoford> pop it into reverse
20:26 <@remoford> despool the tranny
20:26 <@remoford> coast into place
20:26 <@remoford> anyone trys to drive off, goes nowhere
20:26 <@Catonic> shit, I can leave my rabbit unlocked and no one is stupid enough to steal it... and it's parked on a hill and is stick and diesel to boot.
20:26 <@remoford> all you gotta do it roll it backwards a few feet
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20:34 <@Dagmar> Maybe pop in an audio CD that has about three minutes of silence and then someone saying "YOU SHOULD REALLY CHECK THE BACK SEAT BEFORE YOU STEAL A CAR.  TIME TO DIE MOTHERFUCKER"
20:35 < Mercster> you could install one of those spring-loaded boxing gloves in the steering column
20:36 < Mercster> i have dumb ideas
20:36 <@Dagmar> Yep
20:37 <@Dagmar> When you make an omelet, first you have to kill a buncha people.
20:37 < Mercster> ive heard that
20:37 <@Dagmar> ...or is that you can't make an omlete without killing a few people.
20:37 < Mercster> you cant kill a bunch of people without eating an egg firls
20:37 < Mercster> first
20:38  * Dagmar is away. (Gone to buy some eggs)
20:38 < Mercster> or, eggs only make an ommelete when you mix it with people you killed
20:38 <@Dagmar> www.abc.com
20:38 < Mercster> something
20:38 <@Dagmar> erk
20:38 <@Catonic> so I was playing with my bass today...
20:38 < Mercster> what size tank
20:39 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o oddball] by ChanServ
20:40 < Mercster> you know chilean sea bass isnt even a fucking bass
20:40 < Mercster> get with it, scientists
20:46 <@juice> meh
20:46 <@juice> It's just a big F'ing inconvenience
20:47 <@juice> being stuck at home when your used to jumping in a car sucks
20:47 <@juice> and I called an ordered pizza 2 hours ago
20:47 <@juice> and they still hadn't delivered
20:47 <@juice> so I call back and they had some techincal problems
20:48 <@juice> so now I have to wait another 40 min
20:48 <@juice> but the food is half off
20:48 <@juice> I am just hungry and can't drive anyhere
20:49 < Mercster> keeping something known as "food" around usually alleviates that problem
20:52 <@juice> yeah
20:52 <@Dagmar> Wow what a mellow way to kill 10 minutes
20:52 <@Dagmar> http://www.playauditorium.com/
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21:17 <@remoford> so does anyone know if the national applications office ever went into effect?
21:18 <@remoford> http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=14&q=http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB229/48.pdf&ei=iu05SZ2kGIyi8QSi95TWBg&sig2=E2Rv0MwEevA9Kwln20b01g&usg=AFQjCNHvi0BHHKwB9jjP6SCJuI-UJlZh-A
21:18 <@remoford> has signatures for its charter for earlier this year
21:18 <@remoford> but im not finding any info on em
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22:13 <@Catonic> wow, if I hold my hand over the CRT, I can see my bones!
22:14 < timoguin_> you're broken
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22:17 <@Catonic> http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w12/ImportsSuk/In-case-of-failure.jpg
22:17  * Mercster plays fable
22:19 <@remoford> Catonic: you should lay off the smack and eat some red meat mr pasty
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22:19 <@remoford> that or turn your crt brightness down
22:20 <@Catonic> remoford: I wish.
22:20 <@Catonic> I'm down to 177 if I can keep from snacking
22:21 <@remoford> so when do we get to call you anorexic?
22:23 <@Catonic> as a sorority girl told me... anorexic means one of two disorders
22:23 <@Catonic> remoford: I dunno, when I start taking smack?
22:24 <@remoford> when i started talking it
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22:24 <@remoford> i presume this was how you lost weight
22:24 <@Catonic> no, exercise
22:24 <@remoford> wtf
22:24 <@Catonic> right now im pretty buff
22:25 <@brimstone> down to 177?
22:25 <@Catonic> but I should have worked out today
22:25 <@brimstone> my body's locked into 170~175 no matter what i eat :(
22:25 <@remoford> so tell me, with the new bod and the shiny hair
22:25 <@remoford> do you get more chicks
22:25 <@Catonic> brimstone: I was down at 170, then got sick and put on ten lbs
22:25 <@Catonic> remoford: yeah, but it's got more to do with confidence.
22:25 <@Catonic> that and being dead sexy on occasion
22:25 <@Catonic> I'd rather be at 140.
22:26 <@Catonic> but I know at least one girl who tells me that scrawny isn't sexy...
22:26  * remoford would be positivly unhealtly at 140
22:26 <@remoford> thats liek half my current weight
22:26 <@Catonic> fuck, with the build I've got now, I'd be insanely goodlooking.
22:26 <@remoford> then again, im pretty unhealthy as is
22:26  * remoford goes outside for a cig
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22:28 < Mercster> i was down aroun 135 but i had a disease called sarcoidosis that was killing me
22:28 < Mercster> then they put me on prednisone and i gained 60lbs in 2 months
22:28  * dc0de is away: off to bed.
22:28 < Mercster> nowadays i stay around 190-210
22:28 < Mercster> which is not too bad for 6'
22:29 < Mercster> but i drink too much
22:30 <@Catonic> prednisone is how I first put the weight on
22:31 <@Catonic> 167 is the lowest I've ever hit
22:31 < Mercster> yea, before then i was a beanpole
22:31 <@Catonic> if you really want to see the far end of the BMI scale, talk to aestetix and Shadow404
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22:55 < jb70d> here's a realllllly stupid one.. Who in here's leet with Lotus Notes?
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22:55 < Mercster> bloatus chokes
22:56 <@jb7od> yes.
22:56 <@jb7od> it's the all of the worst concepts in mail all embodied in one crappy app garunteed to b0x0r4 your important mails.
22:57 <@jb7od> -it's an email client
22:57 <@jb7od> -it's a web browser
22:57 <@jb7od> -it's a... wait where's my mail??
22:57 < Mercster> ive only had to watch it's fucked up SMTP implementation from afar, and send frowneys to whoever was running it
22:59 <@jb7od> welp.. i hear ya but i have to soil my hands with it and i just can't accept that i can't recover one of these shitty db's over the size stamp..
23:00 <@remoford> the lotus web browser is espically sucky
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23:00 <@jb7od> yes.
23:00 <@remoford> whole damn thing feels like a java app
23:00 <@remoford> (which it is)
23:00 <@remoford> slow, crashy, hoggish
23:01 < Mercster> enterprisey
23:01 <@remoford> that too
23:01 <@jb7od> i just need to rip out whatever's left of a couple corrupt dbs.
23:01 <@scoil> hey sdodson are you around?
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23:07 <@scoil> or anyone that's done linux ris
23:08 <@brimstone> eh?
23:09 <@scoil> atftpd[6469]: Serving ntdetect.com to 192.168.1.6:55745
23:10 <@brimstone> i used hpa's tftpd
23:10 <@scoil> it gets to that file then reboots and i can't see what the error is
23:10 <@brimstone> you need that error :
23:10 <@brimstone> :/
23:10 <@brimstone> could be the case sensitvity patch?
23:10 <@scoil> it shows for like a fraction of a second
23:10 <@scoil> see i dont even think i did that patch correctly
23:11 <@scoil> cuz i try and tftp get NTDETECT.COM and it cant find that file
23:11 <@brimstone> yeah, i think that's your problem then
23:12 <@scoil> should i try hpa's tftpd
23:12 <@brimstone> yes, hpa is the man
23:12 <@scoil> did you use inetd?
23:13 <@brimstone> no
23:14 <@brimstone> pretty sure it's running standalone, but that shouldn't matter
23:17  * scoil builds
23:17 <@Catonic> I love amazon
23:18 <@Catonic> $53 in books, $45 in shipping.
23:19 <@sasquatc4> sweet, the joys of free micro samples
23:24 <@Catonic> sasquatc4: what are you playing with?
23:25 <@sasquatc4> thinkin about gettin back into microcontrollers and starting to scrounge for parts and come up with ideas
23:25 <@Catonic> I need to get rid of my AVR kit.
23:25 <@Catonic> I'm never going to use it.
23:27 <@sasquatc4> yea i just found an old motorola kit but im missing half the stuff to use it, and its pretty old
23:27 <@Catonic> 68hc11?
23:28 <@sasquatc4> yea, or 12, dont remmember which
23:28 <@scoil> tftp> get NTDETECT.COM
23:28 <@scoil> Received 47896 bytes in 0.0 seconds
23:28 <@scoil> :D :D :D
23:29 <@scoil> yaaay it worked
23:29 <@sasquatc4> grabbin some free freescale samples right now, like this badboy http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=i.MX27
23:30 <@Catonic> nice
23:30 <@remoford> free samples?
23:31 <@sasquatc4> also gettin http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=DSP56362 and an accelerometer since i lost all mine from school
23:32 <@sasquatc4> sucks tho, apparently microchip now charges for samples, they used to be the best, 5 different items every couple of weeks
23:32 <@remoford> so they send you some
23:32 <@remoford> and you send them back later?
23:33 <@sasquatc4> naw, you keep em
23:33 <@sasquatc4> hmm, well maybe they dont really charge, they just added on a 'processing fee' of 7.50 to all orders, so thats not too bad
23:34 <@sasquatc4> remoford: they have to mass produce these things anyway, so they are pretty damn cheap, they figure if they send people free ones to prototype and learn on, then a) they will be more likely to use them in the future, and b) they can start a design on them and if it goes to completion that millions and millions of orders for those parts
23:34 <@remoford> dan
23:34 <@sasquatc4> but microchip, freescale, and TI are the only ones that are easy to get freebies from, the rest are a pain, but the stuff is so cheap its not too bad to order them anyway
23:34 <@remoford> dang
23:34 <@remoford> i want some free kit
23:35 <@sasquatc4> well all you get are the chips, you still gotta be able to interface to them somehow, and the dev kits are usually a couple hundred, or you can build your own
23:35 <@sasquatc4> just go to freescale.com or microchip.com and sign up for an account and order some stuff, dont remmember the ti website
23:36 <@remoford> huh
23:36 <@sasquatc4> my.ti.com for them, ti's good to sample random IC's, like i usually got power converters and stuff like that there
23:36 <@remoford> id like a handful of the really nice ti adc chips
23:37 <@scoil> okay brimstone where do i get the inf files from
23:37 <@brimstone> what inf files?
23:37 <@brimstone> for drivers?
23:37 <@sasquatc4> then go check em out, you can prolly grab some from em, but alot of people make adc's, adc's are cheap as hell
23:37 <@brimstone> driverpacks.net i think
23:38 <@scoil> ohhh
23:38 <@scoil> hrm, anyway of making it not auto reboot
23:38 <@remoford> well, i want some high ms ones
23:38 <@scoil> cuz i see the msg only for sec, it probably said something like "could not load image"
23:38 <@remoford> like 100 megasamples/s
23:38 <@sasquatc4> remoford: http://focus.ti.com/paramsearch/docs/parametricsearch.tsp?family=analog&familyId=390&uiTemplateId=NODE_STRY_PGE_T  there ya go, 400 somethin TI adc's
23:38 <@brimstone> scoil: maybe, but i dunno, i've not done that much with it
23:39 <@sasquatc4> remoford: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/ads5485.html bam, 80-200msps, the higher ones are samplable, they are out of the lower ones, but theres a bunch more
23:39 <@sasquatc4> thats just one of their new products
23:40 <@remoford> yeah ive had my eye on that bad boy
23:40 <@remoford> make one hell of a radio part
23:41 <@sasquatc4> well, now you can get em for free
23:47 <@sasquatc4> not quite sure what im gonna do a with a bga part tho, need to find some pdips to work with
23:57 <@Catonic> what the hell is wrong with me...
23:57 <@Catonic> I refuse to wear slacks
23:58 <@Catonic> I go from jeans, to dry-clean only nice pants.
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23:58 <@Catonic> ShadowHntr: looks like I have another shirt or two for you
23:59 <@ShadowHntr> cool
23:59 <@Catonic> I refuse to put hacker shirts in the goodwill bin
23:59 <@ShadowHntr> losing weight that quickly, are we?
23:59 <@ShadowHntr> that's cool
23:59 <@Catonic> no, just another large I found in the closet
23:59 <@ShadowHntr> i got a friend in virginia that would love that IRC naked shirt you gave me =)
--- Log closed Sat Dec 06 00:00:02 2008