--- Log opened Wed Nov 19 00:00:04 2008
--- Day changed Wed Nov 19 2008
00:00 < sas-plugfest> that is definetly one way to learn linux, break shit, alot, and get yourself out of it, very good real world experience that you can do on your own
00:00 <@Corydon76-dig> Zulard: to my machines?  It almost never happens, except when I'm upgrading or trying something experimental
00:00 < sas-plugfest> too bad distro's are all easy to use and shit now
00:00 <@Corydon76-dig> Zulard: but then again, I fiddle and I know how to fix
00:00 < Zulard> hm, should I get all the drivers for my shit before i even upgrade
00:00 < Zulard> I wouldnt be fucking with shit really
00:01 <@Corydon76-dig> Zulard: if you don't fuck with shit, you won't learn
00:01 <@scort> lol get the drivers
00:01 < Zulard> Haha I guess thats true
00:01 <@Corydon76-dig> Or run vmware server and only fuck with shit in the VM
00:01 <@scort> distros like ubuntu have all your drivers either built in or as modules
00:01 < Zulard> I think I decided on the computer I'm gonna get
00:01 <@Corydon76-dig> Then, if you really screw yourself up, you can just rollback to the latest snapshot
00:01 < Zulard> I'll prolly dual boot
00:02 <@Corydon76-dig> and try again until you get it right
00:02 <@sdodson> man you're really selling broken shit like it's awesome. I can really tell you're an ubuntu user.
00:02 <@Corydon76-dig> Good learning environment
00:02 < Zulard> ima get the hp m7557c
00:02 <@scort> who
00:03 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: That would be funny if Fedora didn't have a habit of fucking shit up
00:03 <@scort> dont fuck shit up
00:03 <@scort> fuck it down
00:03 <@sdodson> no wai, never happenz
00:03 <@Corydon76-dig> Zulard: again, vmware server... it's FREE now
00:04 <@scort> how do i free
00:04 <@Corydon76-dig> FREE for both Windows and Linux
00:04 < Zulard> Ok :)
00:04 <@sdodson> http://webcast.ey.com/events/play.aspx?prog={08085a61-5b66-40cc-b560-79c8be27fc94}&options=&mid=6804
00:05 <@Corydon76-dig> ~minilink
00:05 <@sdodson> szulki is muh hero
00:05 <@Corydon76-dig> MaxieZ: wtf happened to the bot?
00:05 <@sdodson> szulik
00:05 <@sdodson> http://lnk.nu/webcast.ey.com/qqo.aspx
00:06 <@scort> Corydon76-dig, sdodson banned it
00:07 <@scort> * #se2600 Banlist: Mon Nov 17 20:47:27 *!*n=buubot@erxz.com sdodson!n=sdodson@serenity.ninjr.org
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00:07 <@sdodson> I miss seeing him around, getting cornered in the elevator and asked pressing questions.
00:07 <@sdodson> scort: wrong bot
00:07 <@juice> hi
00:07 <@scort> wtf bot are you talking about
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00:09 <@sdodson> http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=5366
00:09 < Zulard> juice
00:09 < Zulard> are you from TN
00:09 <@juice> no
00:09 < Zulard> k good
00:09 <@sdodson> scort: I banned buubot. mzbot or whatever is what he's talking about
00:09 < Zulard> just making sure you're not the same juice i know
00:09 <@juice> ok
00:09 <@scort> * #se2600 Banlist: Mon Nov  3 15:10:33 *!*@217.145.241.102 sagan.freenode.net
00:09 <@sdodson> http://www.woot.com/
00:09 <@scort> whois that ban
00:10 <@scort> Woot: Midway 12 Game Tabletop Classic Arcade System - $199.99
00:10 <@sdodson> Midway 12 Game Tabletop Classic Arcade System
00:10 <@sdodson> $199.99
00:10 <@scort> jinx
00:14 <@sdodson> http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2008/11/choo-choo.html
00:15 <@scort> choo choo
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00:46 <@scort> another wootoff
00:46 <@scort> ?
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01:32 <@juice> gas is down to 1.47 at some stations here
01:32 < Zulard> whjaaaattt
01:32 < Zulard> where the hell you at
01:32 < Zulard> gas is still 1.99
01:33 <@juice> Kansas City Ks
01:33 <@juice> that price in in Kansas city mo
01:33 <@juice> about 10 minutes or so from me
01:47 < TheLightCosine> damnit, mccolo manage to get back online for a while
01:47 < TheLightCosine> and the spam goes right back to previous levels
02:01 <@m0j0-j0j0> scort: I was thinking about getting the tabletop, but no Ms. Pacman
02:01 <@scort> ?
02:02 <@scort> same
02:04 <@m0j0-j0j0> I don't use the graphics tablet I have so I don't want another
02:19 <@m0j0-j0j0> Zulard: http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=42369279&navid=155441524
02:20 < Zulard> Heyyyyyyyyyy
02:20 < Zulard> Thanks
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04:33 < TheLightCosine> hooray for trying to program to something without documentation
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07:15 <@Neoteric> i know it's old news but senator steven's still sux
07:15 <@sdodson> Neoteric: inorite
07:16 <@Neoteric> i wish i understood white people
07:16 <@Neoteric> i know right
07:17 <@Shadow404> i wish i understood asians
07:19 < TheLightCosine> I wish i understood humans
07:19 <@I-MOD> I wish I understood people
07:20 <@I-MOD> s/people/women
07:22 <@Shadow404> lawl
07:22 <@Shadow404> they are a completely diffrent species
07:23 <@Shadow404> but what do i know? but i did stay at a holiday inn.
07:23  * I-MOD stabs Shadow404 in the eye
07:29 <@Shadow404> lawl, it took this installer longer to setup the download bar than it took to actually download the 245mb
07:30 <@brimstone> that's cuz your computer sux
07:32 <@Shadow404> probably running 2 encoders and checking 5 diffrent internet streams simultaneously can bog down a system, just my guess
07:33 < TheLightCosine> or maybe it's ebcause you're on a mac =P
07:33 <@Shadow404> heh, mac's suck
07:33 <@Shadow404> imho
07:33 < TheLightCosine> exactly
07:33 < TheLightCosine> although there is technically BSD buried deep down udner there somewhere
07:35 <@Shadow404> thats a rumor
07:36 < TheLightCosine> a myth even
07:36 < TheLightCosine> like el dorado
07:36 < TheLightCosine> "the long lsot UNIX of OS 10"
07:36 < TheLightCosine> *lost
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08:14 <@Dolemite> Ugh.   vacation > work
08:14 <@Dolemite> However
08:15 <@Dolemite> work income >>>>>> vacation income
08:18 <@I-MOD> they differ for you?
08:19 <@Shadow404> u dont get paid full pto?
08:19 <@Dolemite> sure I do
08:19 <@Dolemite> but there's a limit to how many days I can get paid for being on vacation
08:19 <@Shadow404> yeah, of course
08:19 <@Dolemite> I'm still looking for that job that give 200 days of paid vacation each year
08:20 <@I-MOD> i have over 5 weeks of time off that i haven't used...
08:20 <@brimstone> take dec off
08:20 <@Dolemite> How big of a company do you work for?
08:20 <@brimstone> ~200 people
08:21 <@I-MOD> they might be pissed if i took a month off
08:21 <@I-MOD> :D
08:21 <@Shadow404> ~154 people
08:21 <@brimstone> do it in afternoons :P
08:21 <@Shadow404> man, wish i could get paid to have a nooner
08:21 <@Dolemite> Well if you're in any sort of a volatile industry then you shouldn't let that much vacation build up.  I've seen people get burned when companies go under - they pay out what has been worked, but vacation time is technically a benefit that they are not obligated to pay when closing their doors.
08:22 <@Dolemite> Shadow404 : What, you're not charging to give blowjobs on your lunch break anymore?
08:22 <@Shadow404> heh
08:22 <@brimstone> Dolemite: we have "personal time" which is unlimited and doesn't pay out, and vacation time that's capped at 100 hours and does payout
08:23 <@Dolemite> ok, time for the first meeting
08:24 <@Shadow404> i got that team lead bs meeting in about 20 mins as well
08:25 <@Shadow404> im just gonna go and listen and turn down the offer of teamlead
08:25 <@Shadow404> not worth the stress, doesnt pay any extra
08:25 <@brimstone> but allows you to show initiative
08:26 <@Shadow404> i show enough damn initiative already
08:26 <@Shadow404> i dont need to take blame for others pitfalls
08:26 <@brimstone> don't want to advance huh?
08:27 <@Shadow404> uh, ive advanced quite well, 2 promotion this last year
08:27 <@brimstone> was your promotion just a pay raise?
08:27 <@Shadow404> na, position and pay
08:27 <@brimstone> did you get a new office?
08:27 <@Shadow404> na, only managers get offices
08:36 < TheLightCosine> hey Dole: how much you know about Citrix XenApp/Metaframe Presentation Server?
08:39 < TheLightCosine> ah damn didn't notice he said he was going to a meeting
08:40 <@Shadow404> fail
08:41 < TheLightCosine> story of my day
08:41 < TheLightCosine> i could just bypass this whole mess if remote registry was turned on on our TermServs
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08:56 <@Shadow404> Catonic: u alive?
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09:17 <@Dolemite> TheLightCosine : Not much in the past 8 years, but Mirage has been doing some evaluations of virtual desktops along those lines lately
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09:23 < TheLightCosine> i'm gonig crazy trying to find a a command line way of accessing this information from the ica client
09:23 < TheLightCosine> i can see it in the little gui control panel, but i need to be able to do ti remotely
09:26 <@Shadow404> TheLightCosine: http://dev.remotenetworktechnology.com/ts/citrix_from_the_cl.htm
09:26 <@Shadow404> sigh
09:26 < TheLightCosine> yeah that doesn't help
09:26 < TheLightCosine> i don't want to make a new connection
09:27 < TheLightCosine> i want the information on already existing connections
09:28 < TheLightCosine> everything i've found has been the same crap on how to create new ICA connections within a script or app
09:29 < TheLightCosine> i don't give a shit about that,m i want to know which apps are coming from which servers
09:32 <@Catonic> Shadow404: I'm breathin so I guess I'm still alive, even if the signs seem to tell me otherwise
09:37 < zadeaux> know which apps are coming from which servers? look in the management console
09:37 < zadeaux> their new access suite console blows
09:39 < TheLightCosine> it has to be from the client side.
09:40 < zadeaux> what type of client.. full ica or web
09:40 < zadeaux> or thin
09:41 < TheLightCosine> web
09:41 < TheLightCosine> see i can open the connection center GUI on mine and get a hierarchy tree
09:41 < TheLightCosine> showing Server>Apps; Server>apps
09:42 < zadeaux> the information is in the .ica file when you clicked the published app within the web interface
09:42 < TheLightCosine> where is it putting that ica file though? cus i can't find it
09:42 < zadeaux> if your just going for troubleshooting here
09:43 < zadeaux> i usually right click the published application in the web interface - file/save as to desktop and open in notepad
09:44 < zadeaux> unless you're using secure gateway along the way, then it will just show you the STA ticket in the ica file
09:44 < TheLightCosine> yeah it's CSG
09:44 < TheLightCosine> and i need to know what is active oat the given moment
09:44 < TheLightCosine> on a given client machine
09:45 < zadeaux> shit.. you won't be able too if you're going through CSG
09:45 < zadeaux> only ticket information is given to the client
09:45 < TheLightCosine> why not, the connection center displays that shit
09:45 < zadeaux> CSG creates the actual ICA connection, csg just tunnles
09:45 < TheLightCosine> all i'm asking is to be able to get it in a command prompt
09:45 < zadeaux> *tunnels
09:46 < zadeaux> that information is passed to the connection center during an established connect, i really don't know of a way off the top of my head
09:47 < TheLightCosine> for example, in my own current citrix connection center I have *****-*-TS231 <subtend> microsoft Outlook
09:50 < TheLightCosine> i may have to resort to the shotgun approach then
09:50 < zadeaux> I would think there is some WMI information somewhere along the way
09:51 < zadeaux> just would have to find the correct place to query
09:51 < TheLightCosine> i can find the active ica connections in netstat but can't discriminate which ones are which
09:52 < TheLightCosine> see the problem is we have 6 different Citrix Farms with over 1000 hosted "apps"
09:53 < TheLightCosine> so disconnected hung sessions in the admin consoles can be a real fucking pain
09:54 < TheLightCosine> so i figured i could write soemthing that would go in, find their ICA connections, and lsit them, then i'd select the one i want, it would use qwinsta to determine the session id on the TS then rwinsta against that session to disconnect
09:54 < TheLightCosine> boom
09:54 < TheLightCosine> in theory much easier than digging through our messed up folder structure in the admin consoles
09:58 < zadeaux> CSG + session reliability should be preventing that problem
10:00 < TheLightCosine> heh
10:00 < TheLightCosine> we have certain apps that cause major fuckups
10:00 <@Catonic> aestetix: sup punk
10:00 < TheLightCosine> we have one that people have to be kicked out of several times a week
10:01 < TheLightCosine> anyways quitting time
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10:01 < zadeaux> heh
10:01 <@Catonic> what's going on guys?
10:02  * oddball is sitting in an empty office without official internet all day... going to break out the eee PC and watch movies in a bit.
10:04 <@polerin> oddball: ..  that sounds more fun than my day
10:04 <@Catonic> polerin: you're learning
10:05 <@oddball> Oh, and this is in Pulaski
10:05 <@Catonic> I've hit a point in my life where I don't value things so much any more as people..
10:05 <@Catonic> oddball: pick up some moonshine and practice your banjo.
10:05 <@polerin> Catonic: learning what?
10:06 <@polerin> oddball: I'm still swimming through an insane mishmash of code with increadable pressure to get it done today
10:06 <@polerin> this is on a site rewrite that I've one pretty much completely without help
10:07 <@polerin> actually, it's not a rewrite.  that'd be awesome.  it'd be clean and better...  this is a patch-and-sweep-it-under-the-rug
10:09 <@Catonic> polerin: the laws of business say that unless there's value to be gained in rewriting the codebase, then don't.
10:09 <@Catonic> if you're working on a product that someone else wrote, it was accepted as is, and works as is.
10:10 <@Catonic> This is why I want to leave IT.
10:10 <@polerin> Catonic: there's plenty of value, and the company that contracted us to make it work understands that
10:10 <@polerin> the problem is they don't have the capital to do it right yet
10:10 <@polerin> and they need it done
10:10 <@Catonic> I don't want to keep fixing broken, and going from place to place finding more broken that no one wants to fix.
10:11 <@oddball> I'm I big fan of the logic of "well, it's a piece of shit, but we've dumped to much money and time into it to abondon it."
10:12 <@Catonic> it's nice to have that freedom, but a lot of middle managers are unwilling to take that stance.
10:13 <@Catonic> this is why I never drink caffine first thing in the morning
10:14 <@Catonic> my god, I can think.
10:14 <@Catonic> yes, 9am is first thing in the morning for me.
10:21 <@oddball> oh, don't worry.  I didn't leave the hotel until about 9 this morning.  Meant to get out about an hour earlier... just didn't happen.
10:23 <@Evilpig> neat flash drive http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/drives/ab63/
10:26 <@sdodson> 11:24 <@sdodson> watching a machine with 48 drives boot via 9600 baud serial console is an experiment in patience
10:26 <@sdodson> 11:25 <@Nerf> Oh wellI think SAS is the preferred connection
10:27 <@sdodson> lolerskatecopter
10:32 <@Dolemite> woot off going on right now
10:35 <@Dolemite> is DDR2 800 the PC 5300 or is it another number?
10:36 <@Dolemite> ah, pc2-6400
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10:46 <@Catonic> that was an amazing shit. I swear, it was flipping me off, even as I flushed it down.
10:54 <@coil> http://pixdaus.com/pics/3SrVqngz93c5.jpg
10:55 < eryc> lolwtf
11:02 <@Shadow404> i so wnat to build one of those
11:02 <@Shadow404> on a smaller scale
11:04 < M0j0-j0j1> hey all
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11:09 <@rattle> WOO!
11:09 <@rattle> Daschle just got HHSS!!
11:13 <@rhia> cool - not sure i like the idea of Gates staying on, tho - well, not Gates per se, but if he stays, his staff stays and some of them are diehard neocon hawks
11:14 < eryc> um, health and human services
11:15 <@coil> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/19/BANK1478HP.DTL resier
11:15 <@polerin> eryc: yes, she was talking about the rumors about gates keeping defense
11:16 <@rhia> polerin: tack
11:16 <@polerin> ;p
11:17 <@polerin> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=amaiDFIixawY&refer=home
11:17 <@polerin> rhia ^^
11:18 <@rhia> well, that's another reason to not be thrilled with HC as SoS
11:20 <@polerin> heh
11:20 <@polerin> yeah
11:20 <@rhia> i know O wants to rebuild a Lincoln-esque cabinet, but picking a SoS who rather vehemently disagrees with your world view - esp since the world Likes O's view .....
11:20 <@rhia> unless, he plans on using Biden <g>
11:20 <@polerin> though at least gates has indicated that he might be willing to have a new cabinet
11:20 <@polerin> not cabinet
11:20 <@polerin> staff
11:20 <@polerin> err
11:21 <@rhia> neutral staff wouldn't be too bad - just don't like the idea of More embedded neocon hawks roadblocks scattered around
11:22 <@rhia> esp after the stunts Bush has been pulling with federal appointments
11:24 <@polerin> yeah
11:24 <@polerin> and some of the crazy things he's doing with executive orders
11:24 <@polerin> which hopefully obama can easily undo
11:28 <@Corydon76-dig> I'm still hopeful for a Democratic supermajority in the Senate
11:32 <@rattle> In other news, it's been confirmed that Hitler only had one testicle.  http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1945960.ece
11:32 <@rattle> heh
11:33 <@rattle> rhia: Daschle is a CAP fellow.  :)
11:34 <@M0j0-j0j0> does anyone know of a linux PIM that works with verizon razr?
11:34 <@Evilpig> anyone ever used this? or have somethign similar?  http://ipaudit.sourceforge.net
11:36 <@M0j0-j0j0> also anyone here know much about Carrboro Creative Coworking
11:39 <@rhia> rattle: very nice - and that he's NOT a sitting Senator anymore - tho Obama does seems partial to Senators ;)
11:39 <@rattle> Yeah.  This administration is going to be loaded with them..
11:40 <+SmthingPrductive> a government laden with senators? yuck!
11:40 <@rattle> Personally, I hope something happens with Edwards' Half in Ten initiative..
11:41 <@rattle> I think the idea of decreasing poverty by half in ten years is simple and powerful.
11:42 <@polerin> oh god that's awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nbkbss7i5s
11:42 <@rattle> And given the economic situation, and the plan to create "green jobs"..  I could see some connections there that could be powerful.
11:43 <@rhia> green jobs is a wonderful idea
11:44 <@sdodson> I hate people who use the word green.
11:44 <@rhia> wonder how much they've looked into geothermal - we sit on a LOT of that
11:44 <@polerin> improve everywhere makes my life better
11:45 <+SmthingPrductive> hmm... if you decrease a negative (poverty), dont' you make it lower?
11:45 <@rhia> sdodson: bite it - it's become industry standard - "ecologically embetterment" would be more pleasing
11:45 <@rhia> ?
11:45 <+SmthingPrductive> arg, never mind... I just suck
11:46 <@sdodson> Anyone heard of CC fraud on NewEgg?
11:46 <@rattle> Most "green jobs" are not exactly glorious jobs..  From what I've gathered, in terms of numbers, there are way more manual labor construction type jobs likely to come out of it than engineering professional kind of stuff..
11:46 <@polerin> and theres people that enjoy construction and are good at it
11:46 <@rhia> tends to be the case, yes
11:46 <@rattle> Exactly.
11:47 <@sdodson> rhia: I'd prefer people be honest and just say "Some bullshit carbon credits or re-forestation of land we clear cut 6 months ago so we could sell tree offsets"
11:47 <@polerin> and that sector is taking a beating
11:47 <@sdodson> None of this green shit happening today is worth a fart.
11:47 <@rhia> sdodson: pay attention - this isn't about rich people buying carbon credits
11:47 < zadeaux> ROHS is pretty interesting though - it's more of an EU thing though
11:48 <@sdodson> rhia: It's bullshit none the less.
11:48 <@rhia> it's about Making the "green shit happening today" worthwhile
11:48 <@rhia> its BS to work our way off foreign oil?
11:48 <@sdodson> it's about deeznuts
11:49 <@rhia> its BS to create jobs HERE providing energy?
11:49 <@polerin> and cleaner energy
11:49 <@Corydon76-dig> It's BS to reduce our trade deficit?
11:49 < zadeaux> rhia: I appreciate the enthusiam, but unless the government unleashes capatilism - companies will continue to ship jobs overseas no matter what the "green" is.
11:50 <@rhia> zadeaux: wrong
11:50 <@polerin> that doesn't increase the rates of breathing disorders in the areas around them?
11:50 <@polerin> zadeaux: unleash capitalism?
11:50 <@polerin> zadeaux: that's what got us here in the first place :P
11:50 <@rattle> A big part of the focus is squeezing more efficiency into the system..  Stuff like retrofitting buildings to be more energy efficient.
11:50 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: you honestly believe that capitalism is the answer, after unleashed capitalism caused the two greatest economic meltdowns in history?
11:51 <@rhia> unleashed capitalism is a big reason behind companies moving jobs offshore - saves a buck on this quarter's books
11:51 <@rattle> Like, how do you cut the energy usage of a city by 10% in N number of years.
11:51 < zadeaux> Do we really need to do a global economics class in here?
11:51 <@rhia> rattle: LED lights, solar panels, geothermal water heating on all Federal buildings, starting with the WH <G>
11:52 <@rattle> I wonder if Obama is going to put back up the solar panels that Regan took down.
11:52 <@rhia> know it's just a gesture, but it'd be a nice one
11:52 <@Corydon76-dig> And don't pull the shit about it not being true capitalism, either.  It's the most free form of capitalism we've ever had, and the markets couldn't take the lack of regulation
11:52 <@polerin> zadeaux: class? you're assuming that we are ignorant too
11:53 < zadeaux> Reglation isn't the answer, taxation isn't the answer, socialism isn't the answer. Other contries have tried it and it doesn't work.
11:53 <@Corydon76-dig> If the market lacks knowledge, then regulation is the only other measure to ensure that markets behave correctly
11:53 <@rhia> esp the LED lights - that home grown industry could use the publicity boost - esp since they're moving from sapphire tech to silicon
11:53 <@remoford> how do you account for the economic problems in other countries?
11:53 <@polerin> zadeaux: yes because deregulation worked so well
11:54 <@rattle> Capitalism is a part of the answer.  Free and open markets are a key part of the answer...  But markets are driven by fear and greed, so they can do completely illogical things.  The goal of regulation is to keep it from going of the cliff..
11:54 <@remoford> its not simply follow on from the us
11:54 < zadeaux> am I really in a 2600 channel talking about "more" regulation?
11:54 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: Actually, socialism is working for medicine and capitalism clearly isn't working for medicine
11:54 <@polerin> zadeaux: S&L, Subprime, Speculation excess (really gas is a buck 80 a gallon now?  awesome.)
11:54 <@Drag0n> other countries have tried it and it did work, Sweden is a socialist society that works
11:54 <@polerin> zadeaux: not every hacker is a libertarian
11:54 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: you're in a 2600 channel who isn't mired in idealism, but practicality
11:55 <@polerin> zadeaux: bullshit "everyone stands on their own" except they don't idology
11:55 < eryc> why is gas cheap now?
11:55 <@polerin> zadeaux: look at what "standing on your own" got you, why the unions formed in the first place
11:55 <@polerin> eryc: because the speculators aren't playing
11:55 <@rattle> I more subscribe to the "i have the right to be left alone" angle of libertarianism than the "everyone stands on their own" angle..
11:56 <@polerin>  so there's nothing to artificially drive up the price
11:56 <@Corydon76-dig> We may tend towards libertarianism, but when a technique has been shown NOT to work, we don't pursue the same strategy blindly.
11:56 <@rattle> s/than/more than/g
11:56 <@remoford> zadeaux: yes, were are all commies now comrade
11:56 <@Corydon76-dig> "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
11:56 < eryc> why did the speculators quit playing?
11:56 <@Drag0n> eryc, lack of demand. the question is, why was it so expensive before? artificial scarcity
11:56 <@polerin> rattle: and i'm an anarcho-syndicalist, so.. yeah.
11:56 <@remoford> zadeaux: best get w/ the program
11:56  * zadeaux facepalm
11:56 <@polerin> eryc: $$$$  lack of capital
11:56 < eryc> did deman really drop that much in 1 month?
11:56 <@Corydon76-dig> eryc: because the oil speculators can't get credit
11:56 <@polerin> no grease
11:57 <@rattle> The licenses we use may make up commies..  But if you look at the way we handle our actual business affairs, hackers tend to be very capitalist.
11:57 <@rattle> s/up/us/
11:57 <@rhia> demand had dropped over many months, the quick price drop was in reaction
11:58 <@Shadow404> i know, that i started driving to work again after prices dropped
11:58 <@rattle> I can't really think of any hackers I know who don't expect to be paid well, and expect equity, when working for corps.
11:58 <@remoford> maybe its just opecs way of saying thank you for getting rid of bush
11:59 <@polerin> rattle: tend to be.  I would say that they also tend to be individualistic, which pushes them towards the anti-authoritian politics.  Except for the fact that we live in a capitalist world and it's hard to challange it
11:59 < zadeaux> I've never got a job from a poor person and I sure as shit don't want to be government supported.
11:59 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: that's great idealism; now, what's the practical side of that?
12:00 <@nachoguy> http://i34.tinypic.com/2zdoti9.jpg
12:00 < zadeaux> The free market works, it's the bullshit regulations from the government we've elected that make it "not" work
12:00 <@Corydon76-dig> The practical side is that if private entities aren't hiring, and the government is, you'll go work for the government, same as everybody else in here
12:00 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: WHEN has the free market worked without regulation?
12:00 <@rattle> polerin:  It seems to go both ways.  There is definitely an anti-authoritarian angle to just about everything..  But I don't see folks really staying away from working for big corps/orgs/gov/mil..
12:00 <@polerin> zadeaux: you're full of it.
12:01 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: I want a concrete example, because in every example in history, the lack of regulation has caused market problems
12:01 <@rattle> Every con reminds me we've got a pretty diverse mix of people who are involved with this scene.
12:01 <@polerin> zadeaux: the free market works to suck the blood out of the poor and feed it to those that have more than enough already
12:01 < zadeaux> polerin: refrain from the direct insluts, i will leave if you can't continue within the conversation
12:01 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: IDEALLY, markets will work if everybody has good information.
12:01 <@polerin> zadeaux: you're full of it.  (it in this case being bare ideology which ignores history)
12:01 < zadeaux> So corporations are bad?
12:01 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: but market players work to ensure that other market players DO NOT have complete information
12:02 <@polerin> zadeaux: and without regulation the gap between the poor and the rich only increases, and the ability of people born into lower socio-economic classes to improve themself decreases
12:02 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: I run a corporation, so be careful with your bare assertions
12:02 <@polerin> Corydon76-dig: I think that was directed at me
12:02 <@rattle> I find it amusing that whenever we establish some type of regulation that works, it just becomes part of the background that no one ever things about or references when making "regulation is bad" arguments.
12:02 <@polerin> zadeaux: and yes, I think corperations, and capitalism as a whole, is bad.
12:02 <@remoford> polerin: zadeaux: the free market works to suck the blood out of the poor and feed it to those that have more than enough already - so you are a marxist then?
12:03 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: either way, he's full of idealism and no practicality.
12:03 <@polerin> remoford: no, as I stated above, i'm an anarcho-syndicalist
12:03 <@polerin> remoford: not every form of socialism is authoritarian
12:03 <@rattle> Most of what orgs like the FCC, SEC, FTC, etc, do is actually very effective.
12:04 <@remoford> oh, so youre a *good* commie
12:04 <@rattle> Yes, the FCC keeps people from saying "fuck" on the radio..  And it's stupid...  But we've never had problems with mis-managed spectrum in this country.
12:04 <@remoford> rattle: no?
12:05 <@rattle> Just think of what the markets would be like if the SEC didn't impose the regulations it does..
12:05 <@polerin> remoford: get your shit straight.  Good/bad doesn't play into politics
12:05  * polerin steps back
12:05 <@remoford> how come the neatest radio applications all occour in the armpit of the spectrum (2.4)?
12:05 <@polerin> remoford: Ok sorry about that, I'm stressed about work, that was harsh
12:05 <@rattle> remoford: Yeah..  We are completely isolated from problems experienced elsewhere in the world.
12:06 <@polerin> remoford: sorry, anyway, i'm not a communist.  That is a specific form of socialism, anarchy is another.
12:06 <@rattle> At least we have open licensed bands...  And bands we can access with very little licensing and/or education..
12:07  * sdodson enjoys some stuffed grape leafs
12:07 <@remoford> rattle: im saying, can you imagine what ppl couldve done with an unregulated spectrum that doesnt suck
12:07 <@rattle> And it's actually regulated effectively enough, that we don't notice we don't have hardcore export/purchase hoops to jump through everything we buy something that transmits.
12:07 <@polerin> remoford: err.. run mexican radio? :P
12:07 <@rattle> Yes, it's not nearly as good as it could be..
12:07 <@remoford> im not against the fcc
12:08 <@remoford> but they are slow and are impeding progress
12:08 < zadeaux> Is a corporation like IBM "bad" for the economic growth of this country and their global impact. If so, how could governmnt acheieve that they have done?
12:08 <@rattle> But spectrum is limited, does have a scarcity problem..  Hence, it's going to suck in some way no matter what..
12:08 <@Corydon76-dig> DEA is the only agency I think that should be completely gutted
12:08 <@remoford> there is scarcity
12:09 <@remoford> but so much is used for silly things
12:09 <@rattle> When you take into account the massive expansion of mobile phones over the past 15 years..  It's amazing anything works..
12:09 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: you're making a strawman argument.  Nobody is arguing against corporations.
12:09 <@polerin> Corydon76-dig: I am
12:10 < zadeaux> <@polerin> zadeaux: and yes, I think corperations, and capitalism as a whole, is bad.
12:10 <@remoford> and the scarcity issue gets better as we do more advanced stuff like beamforming
12:10 <@polerin> zadeaux: but the corperations are only a symptom of the system
12:10 < zadeaux> I want to know why they are bad, when they employee nearly 400k
12:10 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: I think you're also mistaken
12:10 <@polerin> zadeaux: I'd love to get into it more, but I'm going to go get something to eat
12:10 <@rattle> Technical advances in radio are going to change the entire game..  No doubt.
12:11 <@polerin> zadeaux: I'll talk with you at another point, I'm not running away from the discussion ;p
12:11 <@polerin> I've had it many times in here
12:11 < zadeaux> np man. get some food
12:11 <@Corydon76-dig> s/man/woman/
12:11 <@polerin> :P
12:11 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: would you prefer "girl"?
12:12 <@Corydon76-dig> Or wait.. "np lady. get some food"
12:12 < zadeaux> lol
12:12 <@polerin> zadeaux: I'll leave you with this thought.  What would happen if all the people who are employed in shit jobs like cashiers, stockpeople, etc were able to actually do something that isn't just an exchange of capital
12:12 <@polerin> Ok laaaddy
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12:13 <@polerin> <3 some animaniacs.  anyway.
12:13 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: they'd sit and be lazy
12:13 <@remoford> we do have quite a spectrum in here
12:13 <@polerin> Corydon76-dig: actually the :P was more directed at the "No womens on teh intarwebs."
12:13 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: Russia already tried that
12:13 <@sdodson> lrn.com :)
12:13 < zadeaux> 2nd  .. <@remoford> we do have quite a spectrum in here
12:13 <@Catonic_lp> gott in himmel
12:13 <@polerin> Corydon76-dig: actually russia tried something else, but that's another argument :)
12:13 <@remoford> we got anarcho-commies, democrats, libertarians and moderates
12:13 <@Catonic_lp> i am surrounded by idiots
12:14 <@remoford> i dont know if we have any actual republicans
12:14 < zadeaux> I would assume a cashier doesn't always want to be a cashier
12:14 <@polerin> remoford: we had a neo-con too but I don't know where he went
12:14 <@Corydon76-dig> remoford: sdodson, maybe
12:14 <@polerin> haven't seen wizardpc recently
12:14 <@sdodson> Corydon76-dig: Why do you say that?
12:14 <@Corydon76-dig> WizardPC was our token Republican
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12:15 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: you seem to disagree for the point of disagreeing
12:15 <@sdodson> Corydon76-dig: I do not!
12:15 <@Corydon76-dig> See?
12:15 <@sdodson> No!
12:16 < zadeaux> sdodson is an ELIZA bot
12:16 <@sdodson> zadeaux: How does that make you feel?
12:16 < zadeaux> ^ this
12:17 <@sdodson> zadeaux: Lets focus on you for a moment.
12:18 < zadeaux> We seem to have been.. quite a few "zadeaux:" if i scroll up hre
12:18 < zadeaux> I fed the bears
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12:31  * Corydon76-dig growls at zadeaux 
12:32 < zadeaux> :-)
12:33 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: would you prefer a lick?
12:33 < zadeaux> depends
12:33 < zadeaux> I should definately drunk IRC tonight
12:34 < zadeaux> I'll have to drag some buddies from some other networks though
12:34 <@Corydon76-dig> The bf prefers when I lick him
12:36 < zadeaux> You mentioned you run a corporation? full on c or s corp?
12:36 <@Corydon76-dig> full on
12:36 <@Corydon76-dig> nonprofit corporation
12:37 <@Corydon76-dig> or more precisely, I run the finances
12:38 < zadeaux> cool
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13:21 < zadeaux> I like S. Crawfords statement about internet access is a "utility". "This is like water, electricity, sewage systems: Something that each and all Americans need to succeed in the modern era. We're doing very badly, and we're in a dismal state,"
13:21 < zadeaux> internet = sewage systems. love it
13:22 <@nachoguy> it's a series of tubes!
13:22 <@Drag0n> well, it is just a bunch of tubes
13:22 <@sdodson> stfu newbsz
13:22 <@polerin> quick tec question.
13:22 <@polerin> tech
13:22 < zadeaux> reboot it
13:22 < zadeaux> quick answer
13:22 <@polerin> unfortunatly not applicable.
13:23 <@Drag0n> 42
13:23 <@Feltenix> have you tried yelling at it?
13:23 <@polerin> I've got a table where I want to duplicate each row, but delete the id's and switch two of the values
13:23 <@polerin> sql
13:23 <@polerin> mysql to be exact
13:25 <@polerin> sub-select the easiest way?
13:28 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: INSERT INTO SELECT ... FROM ...
13:29 <@coil> always a sql joke
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13:30 <@Corydon76-dig> coil: not a joke.  That query has been supported since before MySQL generally supported sub-selects
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13:31 <@polerin> hi dcode :)
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13:32 <@Catonic_lp> clue request: is "yum update" how one brings RHEL5 up to date?
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13:37 <@Catonic_lp> I just noticed the topic, and had to find the context
13:42 <@polerin> Corydon76-dig: INSERT INTO `friends` SELECT `user_id` as `friendid`, `friendid` as `user_id`, `isconfirm`, `created`, `modified` FROM `friends` WHERE `isconfirm` = 1
13:42 < eryc> Catonic_lp: theres also an upgrade command
13:50 <@polerin> Corydon76-dig: that's not swapping the cols I want swapped.
13:50 <@polerin> oh, I get it I think, nm
13:51 <@polerin> yep.  thanks
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14:23 < scribbles> oh hai
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14:33 <@M0j0-j0j0> jimmy's crack whorin' and I don't care
14:55 <@Corydon76-dig> Have you noticed all the anti-Alabama signs around?  Everywhere I look, I see "No Bama", and I wonder, what's with the animosity?
14:56 <@rhia> well, it IS Alabama ;)
14:57 < eryc> Corydon likes to squeal like a pig
14:57 < scribbles> a lot of it is thanks to the Right Wing Tavern in Kennesaw
15:00 <@polerin> Corydon76-dig: are you joking or..?
15:05 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: clearly, the sign says "No Bama".  ;-)
15:05 <@Corydon76-dig> And people wonder why kids can't spell.
15:06 <@Catonic_lp> Corydon76-dig: that's because Alabama is 11-0
15:06 <@Catonic_lp> it's GObama in Alabama.
15:07 <@Corydon76-dig> Catonic_lp: actually, I saw that tag on an SUV in Alabama and figured "He must be an Auburn fan."  ;-)
15:07 <@I-MOD> yeah it is :D
15:08 < eryc> Al'Abama
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15:13 <@sdodson> Who's Obama?
15:14 <@I-MOD> that guy with the face
15:15 <+SmthingPrductive> Dow Falls Below 8,000 The Dow closes nearly 430 points down, ending below the 8,000 mark for the first time since 2003.   MORE DETAILS: <http://www.cbs46.com/tu/5CsifOzRp.html>
15:15 <@Catonic_lp> he's not that guy with the o face
15:16 <@Shadow404> woohoo, depression here we come!!!
15:16 <@Shadow404> better start planting those potatoes
15:16  * Lissa gives shadow some prozac for his depression
15:16 <@polerin> heh
15:16  * polerin would love to have a little garden actually 
15:17 < zadeaux> maybe we'll see some Reagan politics to help us out of this... /dreaming
15:17 <@polerin> ...
15:17 < zadeaux> ./poke
15:17 <@polerin> you meen the regan politics that caused the S&L crisis right?
15:17 <@polerin> :P
15:18 <@rhia> zadeaux: might find this an interesting read:
15:18 <@rhia> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-cusack/sarah-frodo-palin-and-the_b_135337.html
15:20 <@sdodson> SmthingPrductive: Reset, reset, reset!
15:20 <@sdodson> rhia: 57 states!
15:21 <@Drag0n> how about reverse reganomics? trickle up economics? bail out the people, not the banks and buisnesses
15:21 <@rhia> sdodson: random attempt to be disruptive!!
15:22 <@sdodson> rhia: what?
15:22 <@rhia> just mimicking your contributions
15:22 <@polerin> Drag0n: wouldn't that be "seep up" economics
15:22 <@polerin> Capilary economic theory
15:23 <@rhia> damnit, i want fountains
15:23 <@Drag0n> no, we get to piss on the fatcats, trickle up
15:23 <@rhia> some of us have slight issues pissing upwards
15:23 < zadeaux> rhia: interesting post, but I don't know too many people that believe in natural law economic theory
15:23 < zadeaux> I'm not advocating eliminating things like the central bank
15:24 <@rhia> unfettered/unregulated free markets tend to follow the natural law theory of economics
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15:24 < zadeaux> err. whats his face said it best..
15:24 < zadeaux> lemme find it
15:24 <@rhia> the whole "let the market run free" stance builds off the assumption
15:25 <+SmthingPrductive> sdodson: what'd I do???
15:26 <@sdodson> SmthingPrductive: I'm saying we're going to reset. credit melt down, doom, gloom. Like fight club!
15:26 <@sdodson> rhia: no srsly, wtf is up with obama compaigning in 57 states?
15:26 <+SmthingPrductive> oh ahh ;) I get it ;)
15:27 <+SmthingPrductive> sorry, tier 3 is being a prick at the moment and nothing else is working like it should... so I'm distracted and pissed :-/
15:27 <@rhia> sdodson: a misspeak from a grueling 21 month campaign schedule
15:27 <@rhia> a non-issue
15:28 <@rhia> as before and since he's had it right numerous, numerous times - sigh
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15:28 < zadeaux> milton friedman: "The Fed was largely responsible for converting what might have been a garden-variety recession, although perhaps a fairly severe one, into a major catastrophe."
15:28 < zadeaux> Instead of using its powers to offset the depression, it presided over a decline in the quantity of money by one-third from 1929 to 1933 ... Far from the depression being a failure of the free-enterprise system, it was a tragic failure of government."
15:28 < zadeaux> had to find that quote
15:28 <@sdodson> rhia: OMFG YOU ARE SO BLIND
15:29 <@rhia> sdodson: you're too smart to act that dumb - do you really miss the troll that much or are you just that bored?
15:30 <@sdodson> rhia: miss what troll?
15:30 <@rhia> there's a sign of a really bad economy, the rich are cutting back on paying their mistresses
15:31 <@remoford> yeah im down to two mistresses
15:31 <@sdodson> rhia: I just find it offensive that you turn a blind eye to obama SPEAKING INCORRECTLY yet you wet yourself over Palin's phone prank.
15:32 <@remoford> had to lay off the other three
15:32 <@remoford> altho one was just getting old
15:33 <@rhia> sdodson: because one was a trip of the tongue and one was such an obvious display of ineptitude - a massive variance in content, scope, and degree - get over it
15:34 <@rhia> that's arguing grapes and water buffalo and you are smart enough to know that
15:34 <@aestetix> Hmm.
15:34 <@aestetix> We have just realized one of the major downfalls of crunch time during late november.
15:34 <@aestetix> Illness.
15:38 < zadeaux> Someone explain to me how we can reduce our electrical energy usage by 15% and increase our usage of hybrid vehicles. back on the green subject, just looking through some linked energy topics from the previous
15:39 < zadeaux> All the while not killing our US car manufacturers
15:39 < Curbob> everyone buy a new car but walk everywhere
15:40 < zadeaux> brilliant, i understand now
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15:45 < zadeaux> omg
15:47 <@remoford> the us car manufacturers need to be killed
15:47 <@remoford> its obvious they arent competiteve
15:47 < zadeaux> maybe that something to do with unions?
15:47 <@remoford> maybe it has to do with their lineups going like
15:48 <@remoford> huge, friggin huge, crap, crap and motherfucking expensive
15:48 < zadeaux> i'm going out on a limb here.. i'm sure the company is intentionaly not trying to be competitive, thats great for a business
15:48 <@remoford> companies do fail
15:48 <@remoford> theyve already failed
15:49 <@remoford> we bailed them out before
15:49 <@remoford> this whole broohaha stinks of moral hazard
15:49 < zadeaux> do you think we should bail out the auto manufacturers?
15:49 <@remoford> absolutly not
15:50 <@remoford> let em burn
15:50 < zadeaux> i'll argue both sides, what about the millions of jobs in the balance
15:50 <@sdodson> rhia: I sincerely feel you're no longer capable of looking at a situation and detaching yourself from your opinion long enough to reach a rational conclusion.
15:50 <@remoford> let aptera and some of these newers names get a peice of the action
15:51 <@remoford> the millions of jobs are a unfortunate side effect
15:51 <@remoford> detroit as a city even
15:51 < zadeaux> remoford: do you really honestly believe those auto companies have made such bad decisions and no outside influence has affected them?
15:52 <@remoford> there has been plenty of outside influence
15:52 <@remoford> but their decisions have been atrocious
15:53 < zadeaux> sigh.. please read up on union contracts and CAFE standards, the auto companies have had a _choice_
15:53 <@remoford> there is something to be said for a little protectionism to make up for japans use of same
15:53 < zadeaux> *haven't
15:54 <@remoford> the cafe standards are pretty lax
15:54 <@remoford> 27mpg is terrible in 2008
15:55 <@remoford> unions are sort of a rip
15:56 < zadeaux> sdodson: we're talking theoretical economics, sometimes all we have is our opinion. There are only a few people that truly understand some of those rational conclusions you mention.
15:56 <@remoford> but really the american manufacters are just making shitty products that noone wants to buy at todays prices with todays credit
15:57 <@remoford> and as for the made bad decisions bit
15:57 <@remoford> do you think its supposed to be fair
15:57 <@rhia> sdodson: entitled to your opinion - and, quite honestly, if you honestly do think that way then the conclusion must be reciprocal
15:57 <@remoford> that they should get a gold star and an e for effort?
15:58 < zadeaux> remoford:i pass stalled cars on the road _ALL_ the time, i'm sure it has something to do with whre the car is made. that "shitty product" argument is flawed
15:59 < zadeaux> it's your car, maintain it
15:59 <@remoford> im not talking reliability or any one specific aspect
15:59 <@remoford> they are in general less featureful
15:59 <@remoford> its comparing amd to intel
15:59 <@remoford> amd sucks
15:59 <@remoford> gm and ford suck
15:59 <@remoford> it happens
16:00 < zadeaux> so the car companies should fail because their products are less featureful?
16:00 <@remoford> they should fail because ppl arent buying their shit
16:00 <@sdodson> Yes.
16:00 <@sdodson> Though I can't say that I feel they should have seen it coming.
16:01 < zadeaux> they aren't failing because ppl aren't buying their shit, we have some dumbasses handling foreign trade
16:01 <@remoford> http://jalopnik.com/5045008/gm-august-sales-down-207-from-august-2007-still-best-sales-month-in-2008
16:02 <@rhia> they're failing because they offer inferior shit at inflated prices under an historically horrendously bad business model
16:03 < zadeaux> and the $15 million GM pays in Viagra, negotiated through the union contracts.. yah, i'm sure that has nothing to do with it either.
16:03 <@rhia> the only reason they're even considered for bailout is that, in some form or fashion, supposedly (according to some economists) 1 in 12 American jobs relies on the US auto industry
16:03 <@remoford> and dont get me wrong
16:03 <@remoford> i buy american
16:03 <@remoford> but my next car will be from one of these startup manfs
16:04 <@remoford> i didnt like the financial bailout either
16:04 <@remoford> with the rational of
16:05 < zadeaux> i would have much rather bailed out the auto guys vs. AIG, given a choice in the matter ..
16:05 <@remoford> we must do something. this is something. hence, we must do this
16:05 < zadeaux> but it's not like any of us have any choice in any of this
16:06 <@remoford> zadeaux: the unions and these companies are in it together
16:06 <@remoford> they might well screw their own pooch
16:06 <@remoford> and out themselves jobs
16:06 < zadeaux> the unions _control_ the companies, they are not in it together
16:07 < zadeaux> there was a place and a time for unions, but it's 2008-2009 nowdays, end the ludacris contracts
16:07 <@remoford> if thats your opinion then the union will get its own back in kind
16:07 <@remoford> when they are all unemployed
16:07 <@rhia> no, the unions control the unions - the exert pressure, but they do not control
16:07 <@remoford> i dont see where this is the greater publics problem
16:07 <@remoford> tis a private matter
16:08 < zadeaux> cause the dumbshits in washington want to make it everyones problem
16:08 <@remoford> you apprarently want to make it everyones problem
16:09 <@remoford> i dont want my tax money going to some craptastic megacorp welfare
16:09 <@rhia> remoford: only because so many US jobs tie back to them and no one in DC wants to answer to why their regions are unemployed because "the government" didn't save them ....
16:09 <@remoford> so they can continue to suck some more for another year
16:09 < zadeaux> I am not for the bailout, just merely arguing both sides for for the sake of doing so
16:09 <@remoford> its a jagged little pill no doubt
16:11 < zadeaux> how about this little gem: Democrats want to seize the money that workers currently invest in their 401(k) plans and replace the popular retirement savings accounts with a one-size-fits-all government sponsored retirement account.
16:11 <@remoford> thats terrible
16:11 <@remoford> but typical
16:11 < zadeaux> Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) said recently that Democrats had better ideas for the $80 billion that Americans contribute to their 401(k) plans each year. "We have to start thinking about whether or not we want to continue to invest that $80 billion for a policy that's not doing what we say it should."
16:12 < zadeaux> "what we say it should." he needs slapped
16:12 <@rhia> zadeaux: that's one democrat, not the whole lot nor the consensus
16:12 <@rhia> zadeaux: and he's loopy
16:12 <@remoford> well you gotta admit thats a pretty common democratic sentiment
16:12 <@remoford> the govt knows better than you
16:13 < zadeaux> rhia: what happens when fraken and martin take the last two seats in the senate for the 60 seat majority?
16:13 <@remoford> so lets have it force $x down your throat
16:13 < zadeaux> that kind of stuff would pass
16:13 <@rhia> remoford: the argument can be made that the republicans feel the same - last 8 years for examples
16:13 <@remoford> to be fair the gop does the same shit on other issues like gay marriage
16:14 <@remoford> yeah as of late that is quite true
16:14 < zadeaux> the _state_ should have no say about marriage, except that the parties at least need to be human.
16:14 <@remoford> now both sides want to control your life
16:14 <@remoford> who the fuck are you to tell me i cant marry my robot
16:14 <@Drag0n> and of legal age
16:15 < zadeaux> ^ yah the basics
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16:16 <@Drag0n> dems want to control what you say in public, repubs want to control what you can do in private
16:16 <@Drag0n> of the 2, i prefer the first, but still not happy with that either
16:17 <@rhia> i prefer the middle - been too far right too long, swinging back to a progressive moderation would be ideal, sigh
16:18 <@remoford> fuck the middle
16:18 <@rhia> compared to most of the EU, our moderates are hard right
16:18 <@remoford> the middle is being told how to live you life on both sides
16:18 <@rhia> no, the middle is being told neither
16:18 <@remoford> yes the euros are socialists
16:18 <@remoford> being told neither is libertarian
16:18 <@Drag0n> and whats wrong with socialism?
16:19 <@remoford> and its certianly not in the middle
16:19 < zadeaux> err. not all, some yes
16:19 <@Drag0n> socialism /== comunism
16:19 <@rhia> remoford: of those two comments
16:20 <@rhia> remoford: i like the libertarian view on individual rights
16:20 <@remoford> good
16:20 <@rhia> i dislike their view on allowing the market to run completely unfettered - the lib view overlooks one crucial point in that - GREED
16:21 < zadeaux> if I'm not affecting you, then don't tell me i can't. :-) much agreed
16:21 <@remoford> i know its overdone but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart
16:22 <@remoford> much better than this left right and middle junk
16:22 <@remoford> rhia: i agree that some degree of regulation is required
16:22 <@remoford> the hardcore libertarian stance goes too far on that
16:22 <@rhia> done the libertarian test based on that, land squarely in the middle
16:23 <@Drag0n> the libertarian view has its issues as well, a true centerist sees the flaws in all of them and tries for avoid them all
16:23 <@rhia> er, not that one, hang on
16:23 <@remoford> but i think the main thing to worry about is trust busting
16:23 <@remoford> and specifc industry reguation not so much
16:23 <@remoford> the market works much better when you dont have companies "too big to fail"
16:23 < zadeaux> not all libertarions are libertarion socialists, i think the nolan article points that out
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16:24 <@rhia> a government can only be as healthy as its people - the denotes some form of oversight  - but not a nanny state, the people are not children
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16:24 <@Drag0n> yep, that was caused by the removal of the corporate charter, every 7 years the public had the right to pass or revoke a corporations charter if they felt they were not opporation in the best interests of the populace
16:24 <@Drag0n> oporating
16:24 < zadeaux> at least we have healthy discussions like this.. I say we need to ban people going to polls who have no idea what they are doing.
16:24 < zadeaux> lol
16:24 <@Drag0n> ahh, cant speel today
16:25 <@rhia> ever hear of the proposed 28th amendment?
16:25 <@remoford> zadeaux: right, and you are going the be the arbiter of that?
16:25 <@remoford> rhia: ?
16:25 < zadeaux> hell no
16:25 < zadeaux> lol
16:26 < zadeaux> i'm not giving a "I'm with stupid" test
16:26 <@Drag0n> well, have to give him points for recognising he cant do it
16:26 <@Corydon76-dig> zadeaux: As I said before, practicality reigns here.
16:26 < zadeaux> indeed
16:26 <@Drag0n> just like the number one question for political office is"do you want the position?" if they answer yes, they are eliminated from the job
16:27 <@rhia> remoford: the separation of corporation and state
16:27 <@Corydon76-dig> Drag0n: I'd like the job, as long as I don't have to run a campaign to do it
16:27 <@Drag0n> then your disqualified
16:28 <@rhia> remoford: er, the proposed 28th amendment - the separation of corporation and state
16:28 <@Corydon76-dig> A campaign is just organized lying
16:28 <@remoford> rhia: do you have  a link or someting/
16:28 <@rhia> i disagree to a point with that - that's like saying all cops who want to be one shouldn't because some want to be cops to be bullies with badges
16:29 <@rhia> while other cops do so because of a desire to uphold the law and help maintain peace
16:29 <@remoford> thats iffy
16:29 <@remoford> i really dont trust cops
16:29 <@Corydon76-dig> I forget who said it, but a cop's main job is as social worker
16:29 <@Drag0n> the difference is, there are cops who want the job for the power, and there are cops that want to uphold the law, so they take the job
16:30 <@remoford>  but if im between a bunch of thugs and the cops
16:30 <@remoford> ill choose the cops
16:30 <@remoford> whatever their initial motivations
16:30 <@remoford> the job changes people
16:30 <@Drag0n> if im between a bunch of cops and a bunch of thugs, i will step aside and let them deal with the problem, im in the wrong place <g>
16:30 <@Corydon76-dig> remoford: depends on where the cop is located
16:31 <@Drag0n> i will say one thing, no cop takes the job for the money <g>
16:32 <@coil> money for nothing
16:32 <@Drag0n> well, at least not for the paycheck
16:32 <@rhia> remoford: try this article for it ... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/10/fishermaam-proposes-28th_n_142735.html
16:33 <@rhia> yes, another huffpost, but it gives the transcript to the video
16:34 <@rhia> Drag0n: hehe, yeah, Heinlein, he who runs away lives to run another day <g>
16:35 <@remoford> seems to want to deny corporations personhood
16:35 <@rhia> RHH knew when to pick the battles
16:35 <@rhia> remoford: yes
16:36 <@remoford> id have to read the exact wording of the bill to see if i agreed with it or not
16:36 <@remoford> but yea, corp personhood is a bit silly
16:36 <@remoford> frankly i think it could be done easier if we actually used the corp death penalty
16:36 <@Drag0n> corporations ARENT people, they are papers and materials owned by people, the people have a vote and a representative, there is no reason those people should have more say because they have money
16:36 <@remoford> burn their charter
16:37 <@rhia> remoford: how much huge government regulation would we have to do if they couldn't act like business and get treated like persons? its an interesting question to mull over
16:37 <@rhia> and treated like Special persons at that
16:37 <@Drag0n> yep
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16:37 <@Drag0n> so, we send all the ceo's to work on short busses, they are "special" after all
16:38 <@rhia> iow, what Individuals are being considered for a direct financial bailout compared to what Special persons (corporations)?
16:39 <@Drag0n> yeah, im facing a financial crisis, wheres my 700 bil
16:39 < zadeaux> remember there are still consumers in the market place that get the decide what corporations they chose to buy from.
16:40 <@rhia> if their "personhoods" are getting part of that bailout, where's my check for $350k?
16:40 <@remoford> Drag0n: in your next set of taxes
16:40 <@remoford> have fun paying for it
16:40 <@rhia> zadeaux: fine, removing person status does not mean the consumer's can't decide where to buy
16:40 <@rhia> remoford: that's just it, we're paying, the "special people" are getting OUR money
16:41 <@remoford> totally
16:42 < zadeaux> I theoryize direct deposit was driven by communists... start paying people pre-tax and then asking for that money back out of their hands.
16:42 < zadeaux> see what happens
16:42 < zadeaux> I'd love to see some social experiment with that
16:42 <@rhia> if corporations can share our rights as people, we can share their bailout - where's my $350k check?
16:43 <@rhia> zadeaux: that's not direct deposit, but i get the drift ....
16:43 <@remoford> zadeaux: wtf are you talking about?
16:43 < zadeaux> some random comment
16:43 <@Drag0n> yep, 350k would stabalize the forclosure issue in one fell swoop, and inflate the banks and lending orgs
16:43 <@rhia> remoford: he means the auto withdrawal of taxes from our paychecks
16:44 < zadeaux> yah, that would be the more correct way of stating that
16:44 <@remoford> my employer does that
16:44 <@remoford> i dont see what the issue is
16:44 <@remoford> 1099 or whatever is a real pain in the ass
16:44 <@rhia> remoford: cuz most of america is used to "net pay"
16:44 <@Drag0n> yep, but how much of a revold would there be if everyone had to pay their 45% at the end of the year instead?
16:44 < zadeaux> net pay is what people think they are getting paid, biggest scam ever
16:44 <@rhia> where the government goes ahead and takes their money upfront so you don't have to be "bothered" with it
16:45 <@remoford> if imma pay taxes and bit cheat
16:45 < nated0g_wrk> if they gave 350k to each person, you know how much stock in cadillac would go up
16:45 < nated0g_wrk> it would be that skit from dave chappelle
16:45 <@remoford> i might as well pay them right then
16:45 <@remoford> s/bit/not/
16:46 < zadeaux> I'm directing the comments more towards the dumb masses
16:47 <@remoford> umm
16:47 <@remoford> they just end up spending the money
16:47 <@remoford> and being in debt to the irs
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16:48 <@rhia> as long as corporations are treated as market and special people, history shows they get away with breaking rules for either -
16:50 <@rhia> market failing, government steps in to rescue the economy - corporation fucks up environment or people, they buy huge concessions thru multiple lawyers more multiple years that even Gates and Buffet would envy
16:50 <@Drag0n> remford, and spending money goes to the buisnesses, and since the taxes would already be taken out, no debt to be had
16:51 <@Drag0n> helow revival of the economy
16:51 <@Drag0n> hello
16:51 < eryc> kitty
16:51 <@Drag0n> clitty?
16:51 <@rhia> not to mention all the money people would sock back into the banks, pay credit cards, pay mortgages, etc etc
16:51 <@Drag0n> yep, because you know the banks would want whats already owed to them
16:52 <@Drag0n> tax leins would be payed first before the checks go out
16:52 < eryc> does this plan include 100 virgins?
16:52 < zadeaux> unfortunately the above mentioned is not what our president elect has in mind when he talks about tax cuts
16:52 <@Drag0n> no, thats up to the churches
16:52 <@Evilpig> what do we need 100 virgins for?  are we praying to teh gods for something?
16:53 < eryc> praise allah!
16:53 <@Drag0n> becides, who wanst a virgin anyway, if they are still a virgin, then theres probably a reason for it
16:54 <@Drag0n> as they say in alabama, if she aint good enough for her family, then she's not good enugh for you
16:54  * Drag0n ducks
16:54 <@Corydon76-dig> "How about 70 slutty broads who know what the hell they're doing?"
16:55 <@Drag0n> hey, better chance of learning something new there
16:55 < eryc> on the job training is available
16:55 <@nachoguy> It's Miley!
16:55 <@rhia> Corydon76-dig: well, they'd already be in the spirit realm for being stoned to death getting that experience
16:55 <@Corydon76-dig> "You mean I have to teach 70 women how to have sex?  Sounds like hell to me."
16:57 <@nachoguy> I wonder, can you even physically be in contact with 70 people at once?  Not sexual, just skin to skin contact, with 70 other people.
16:57 <@polerin> it'd be difficult but I can see it happening
16:57 <@rhia> nachoguy: depends, are you still breathing?
16:57 <@Corydon76-dig> I'd get claustrophobia, and I don't even have that disorder
16:58 <@remoford> nachoguy: i think what you do is build a great big lazy susan
16:59 <@remoford> and put them on that
16:59 < eryc> lol
16:59 <@remoford> pretend its wheel of fortune
16:59 <@rhia> nachoguy: could always ride a train or bus in India to try to find out
16:59 < eryc> you're watching, Wheel of Virgins!
16:59 < eryc> would you like to buy an O?
17:00 <@Drag0n> spin for a dizzy blond? well, she would be after a few revolutions
17:01 <@Drag0n> well, you throw a crackwhore up on the wheel for the bankrupt slot
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17:09 <@remoford> that would be an awesome porno
17:10 <@sas-plugfest> hehe, thats what a friend of mine said
17:10 < eryc> Pat, I'd like to solve the pussy..
17:10 -!- Zulard [n=chatzill@dialup-4.131.18.210.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net] has joined #se2600
17:11 < Zulard> Greets
17:21 <@rhia> evening
17:22 <@rhia> everyone's resting their fingers - politics and economy devolving into sex - the big three <g>
17:22 <@brimstone> not education?
17:23 <@rhia> missed religion, well, not really, a light skim of one and i don't miss religion at all ;)
17:24 <@rhia> brimstone: socially speaking the big four are politics, money, religion, and sex - used to be weren't supposed to talk about any in "polite" society
17:24 <@remoford> se2600 is anything but polite
17:25 <@remoford> and thank god for that
17:30 <@nachoguy> hrm, is queue weighting in asterisk still as unstable as it was bout a year and a half ago?
17:30 <@nachoguy> I just ahd a request from some of our marketing folk about bumping the priority of their campaign calls to "0000001"
17:31 <@nachoguy> I'm not sure they have any idea what they actually want, but I was willing to placate them, provided it guarenteed to not eat your cat.
17:32 <@polerin> hehe
17:33 <@nachoguy> wow
17:33  * nachoguy reads what he just wrote
17:33 <@nachoguy> me fail english? that's unpossible!
17:37 <@rhia> heh
17:38 < Zulard> I wanna move to arizona
17:38 <@rhia> and disconceivable as well
17:38 <@rhia> Zulard: gonna go newage and leave in an earthhome?
17:39 <@polerin> dooood
17:39 <@polerin> earthship
17:39 <@polerin> s
17:39 <@polerin> <3
17:39 <@coil_> take me to your leader
17:39 <@polerin> I would totally live in an earth ship :D
17:39 <@rhia> have to change your name to something like sparkleshine dolphin rainbow
17:39 <@polerin> nah
17:39 <@polerin> no need to go changing my name, I like this one
17:40 <@polerin> I'll name my kid that though :)
17:40 <@rhia> polerin: that was in reference to the newage Sedona move,
17:40 <@rhia> but, yeah - that name guarantees no hassles on the playground <g>
17:40 <@polerin> rhia: I know
17:41 <@polerin> it's awesomeness isn't it
17:41 <@rhia> heh
17:41 <@polerin> I was thinking of changing dolphin to Peacefairy though
17:41 <@rhia> 2nd kid
17:41 <@polerin> mm perhaps
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17:46 < Zulard_> For christ sakes
17:46 < Zulard_> Had to disable call waiting my damn grandma keeps calling
17:47 <@coil_> lol
17:50 < Zulard_> She just got out of the mental institution
17:51 <@coil_> :(
17:51 <@coil_> why not talk to her
17:51 <@coil_> maybe she's lonely
17:51 -!- sas-plugfest [n=sasquatc@12.235.127.2] has quit []
17:52 < eryc> ya call her back
17:52 < Zulard_> eh
17:52 < Zulard_> she's crazy as fuck
17:52 < Zulard_> she keeps asking me what santa is gonna bring me
17:54 <@coil_> lol
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18:05 <@Corydon76-dig> Zulard: and the right answer is "an 8-ball of coke"
18:07 < Zulard> haha
18:07 < Zulard> I would need way more than an 8ball, 8balls only make you fiend
18:08 <@coil_> only if someone else is paying for it
18:11 < Zulard> This chicken and rice is fucking nasty
18:11 <@brimstone> you shouldn't call your grandmother nasty
18:11 < Zulard> Lol
18:13 <@remoford> tell her you are getting a bg bottle of uptheshutfuck
18:13 < Zulard> haha
18:13 <@remoford> in the new senior citizen blend
18:13 <@maco> "a new grandma"?
18:13 <@remoford> thats what imma tell my granny
18:28 < Zulard> Haha
18:28 < Zulard> Her son dropped some sauerkraut in this glass jar and i guess it broke, he just scooped it back into the bottle and put it in the fridge
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18:51 < vyrus001> http://i34.tinypic.com/2zdoti9.jpg
18:52 <@coil_> that's crazy
18:52 <@coil_> dual tongues
18:53 < scribbles> just split cosmetically
18:53 <@coil_> oh you can do that on purpose?
18:56 < Zulard> pizdec vam vsem tut narood
18:56 < Zulard> hell yeah you can do that
18:56 < Zulard> it's illegal in the US
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19:05 < AstralSin> Zulard: it is not illegal in the US, its just very difficult to find someone that knows how to do it properly
19:05 < Zulard> I was told that it was illegal
19:05 < AstralSin> you basically just stretch a tongue piercing until there's only a little tissue left in front then you finish it off with a scalpel
19:06 < AstralSin> i know a guy who did it
19:06 < AstralSin> i've thought about doing it
19:11 < Zulard> i wanna do it
19:17 < AstralSin> well, do it!@
19:17 < AstralSin> don't be a pussy!
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20:18 <@sdodson> Is there any use for my packet8 dta now that i've canceled my service?
20:18 <@sdodson> Can I hack it and turn it into a nuke?
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21:04 < Zulard> Greets afk people
21:04 <@brimstone> hi
21:07 < Zulard> I think im gonna goto school
21:07 < Zulard> Get me a degree in chemistry
21:08 <@brimstone> fffffffaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnccccccccccccccyyyyyyyyyyy
21:08 < Zulard> Lol
21:08 < Zulard> Well I figure everyone is going for computer stuff now a days
21:11 < Zulard> I figure there cant be that many jobs available for computer stuff
21:45 <@Feltenix> get a degree in petroleum engineering
21:46 <@Feltenix> they get payed up to .5 mil a year
21:46 <@Feltenix> crazy demand for them
21:53 <@Drag0n> become a mega corp ceo, they get millions for leaving
21:54 <@sdodson> as they should!
21:55 < AstralSin> i'm gonna go pick one of these up this weekend :D http://www.brentradio.com/images/DoubleDragon/DoubleDragon.jpg
21:58 <@sdodson> AstralSin: you might be a nerd
21:58 <@Drag0n> a doubedragon chassis that plays galaxian?
21:59 < AstralSin> i'm a geek, thank you
21:59 < AstralSin> Drag0n: no, a double dragon chassis equipped with nearly 7000 roms :)
21:59 <@Drag0n> hehe
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22:07 < Zulard> Petroleum engineering? Feltenix?
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22:16 <@Feltenix> I think it is petroleum engineering, not quite sure basically you figure out where to drill for oil
22:16 <@Feltenix> I think
22:16 < Zulard> Hm no shit
22:16 < Zulard> I think I'll stick with chemistry
22:17 < Zulard> I enjoy chemistry
22:17 <@rattle> lvm is seriously pissing me off.
22:17 <@Feltenix> just offering an opinion, doing what you enjoy is a much better option
22:17 <@rattle> Fuck RHEL4.
22:18 <@brimstone> <3 lvm
22:18 <@rhia> finding oil deals with a lot geography
22:18 <@rattle> I've extended a logical volume..  I can _see_ it's extended when I run lvs, lvdisplay, etc..  Yet resize2fs is refusing to acknowledge that the device has gotten larger.
22:19 <@rattle> Anyone have any clues?  I've been googling and haven't found shit..
22:19 <@rattle> Is there some magic to get the system to realize the partition has gotten larger?
22:19 < Zulard> rhia: i suck at geography
22:19 <@rhia> geology, mostly, sorry
22:19 < Zulard> geology is what? the study of the earth
22:19 < Zulard> I cant remember exactly what it means
22:20 <@rhia> learning rocks and stuff - to learn how to find oil, gas, etc
22:20 < Zulard> That doesn't sound that interesting
22:21 <@rhia> geologists and geophysicists working for oil companies make good money
22:22 <@rattle> I sware I've done this a zillion times...  Umnount the partition, fsck it, resize2fs..  Bam.
22:22 <@rattle> This time, getting no fucking love.
22:22 <@rattle> I hate RHEL
22:22 <@rhia> idk, sounds rather fascinating to me
22:22 <@rhia> rattle: no ideas, sorry
22:23 <@rattle> Some mystery bullshit always arrises when dealing with RHEL.
22:23 <@rhia> i avoid RHEL
22:25 < dasunt> Everyone does.
22:26 <@rhia> http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2008/nov/19/draft-revised-texas-science-standards-further-unde/
22:26 <@rhia> yeehaw, go TX =(
22:27  * dasunt thinks of Richard Feynman.
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22:31 <@rattle> Werd.  I guess I just had to bad mouth RHEL to make it work...  I just resized it smaller, then resized it bigger..  And suddently it went to the bounds of the device.
22:31 <@rattle> (Fuck RHEL)
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22:31 < Zulard> Oh you're talking about red hat aintcha
22:33 <@rhia> Requires Heinous Expletive Language
22:34 < Zulard> lol
22:37 <@sdodson> inorite?
22:38  * sdodson wonders what rattle had to do
22:39 <@brimstone> he had to spit
22:39 <@sdodson> hmm that should have worked, oh well
22:40 <@sdodson> That's never helped me. :(
22:41 <@brimstone> i usually just set a screwdriver next to the box and stare it down
22:41 <@sdodson> rattle: Was there a reboot in that cycle?
22:42 <@rattle> sdodson: About three of them..
22:43 <@rattle> The first two had no effect..
22:44 <@sdodson> Don't know. Was thinking perhaps you had forgotten to reload the partition table.
22:44 <@rattle> I still don't understand what was wrong..  But at least it's working now.
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22:45 <@sdodson> This is 5 or 4?
22:45 <@rattle> Grr..  I was expecting that procedure to take about 15 minutes..  Instead it took two hours, and my change window is toast..
22:45 <@rattle> 4
22:45 <@sdodson> Ya, fsck takes forever, resizing doesn't take too long though.
22:46 <@sdodson> oh whoops i didn't read up far enough
22:47 <@Drag0n> yeah, ex3fs and ex2fs suck for large filesystems or large numbers of small files, unfortunetly, thats the only real default options on rhel
22:47 <@Drag0n> reiserfs is much faster, but is in an uncertain state
22:48 <@sdodson> I don't know if gfs handlers lots of files any better.
22:48 < Zulard> I think im gonna get stoned tonight
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22:50 <@Psyiode> hello se2600
22:50 <@sdodson> You can use xfs but we'll just laugh at you.
22:50 <@scort> what about zfs
22:50 <@brimstone> Psyiode!
22:50 <@Psyiode> howdy
22:50 <@brimstone> nah, it's just TelcoBob
22:50 <@sdodson> scort: no
22:51 <@sdodson> zfs isn't even supported in linuz in general outside of fuse.
22:51 <@sdodson> And we don't support fuse.
22:51 <@brimstone> fuse is weeeeeeeeeeeeeiird
22:52 <@sdodson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs <-- next real file system for linux
22:52 <@scort> no for my fbsd box
22:53 <@sdodson> I've heard mixed results. I've heard of far too many trashed file systems.
22:54 < dasunt> I'm sticking with ext3.
22:54 < dasunt> In about 5 years, I'll move to the next great thing.
22:55 <@sdodson> I don't see any reason for me to move to ext4. So btrfs will probably be the next thing I'll bother with.
22:56  * rattle prepared to move on from cursing RHEL to cursing Juniper NSM and Sun Java...
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23:11 <@sdodson> meh, the smart car only gets 33/41mpg?
23:12 <@rattle> Yeah..  My Prius beats it..
23:12 <@timoguin> So does my bicycle.
23:13 <@sdodson> Your prius is also a lot more practical.
23:13 < dasunt> My 15 year old escort comes close to the 33 city.
23:13 <@rattle> Agreed..  It's actually got a fair amount of cargo space..
23:14 <@sdodson> Ya, I rode in a smart car. It was enough room for me, the driver, and a decent fart.
23:14 <@sdodson> My new place is closer to work but less friendly for a bike commute :(
23:15 <@rattle> I could bike to work if I wasn't lazy...
23:15 <@sdodson> Though, you can't get a prius at $12k.
23:15 <@sdodson> Well, I don't think you can. I havne't checked.
23:16 <@timoguin> How much is a Prius?
23:16 <@rattle> I'm not sure about the pricing on used ones..  A new one can be attained for about $27k..
23:16 <@rattle> Considering the low insurance and gas costs..  It's one of the cheapest cars on the road.
23:16 < dasunt> rattle: Lazy.
23:17 <@sdodson> timoguin: $22-24k
23:17 <@sdodson> rattle: Why's insurance low?
23:17 < dasunt> rattle: OTOH, a good bike can set you back several hundred.
23:17 <@rattle> + tax + extended service contract
23:17 <@timoguin> I like my Celica.
23:17 < dasunt> Gear costs more.
23:17 < dasunt> Especially up here.
23:17 <@rattle> sdodson: It's just in a really cheap insurance class..
23:17 < dasunt> But damnit, its rather spiffy that Minneapolis can compete with Portland for % of bicycle commuters.
23:18 <@sdodson> dasunt: what percentage?
23:18 < dasunt> sdodson: Last time I checked, it was pretty low for both cities, but Minneapolis tends to be neck and neck with Portland.
23:18 <@sdodson> They're really making almost every road here bike friendly.
23:18 < dasunt> Both cities lead the nation in the percentage of commuters.
23:19 <@sdodson> dasunt: like < 10%?
23:19 < dasunt> Yes.  :(
23:19 < dasunt> But we have snow!
23:19 < dasunt> We have ice.
23:19 <@sdodson> portland doesn't?
23:19 < dasunt> Not as often.
23:19 <@sdodson> http://bikeportland.org/2008/10/30/portland-bike-traffic-up-28-over-last-year/
23:19 <@sdodson> 8%
23:20 < dasunt> We've been selling studded tires for the last month or so now.
23:20 <@timoguin> Wow...
23:20 <@timoguin> I just found a bunch of poems that I definitely do NOT remember writing.
23:20 < dasunt> Also, we're home to the company who makes the Surly Pugsleys.
23:20 <@sdodson> for bikes?
23:21 < dasunt> http://www.bikemagic.com/news/images/163_6310.jpg <- The Pugsley.
23:21 < dasunt> I wouldn't mind having that bike.
23:21 <@sdodson> dasunt: fixies, what are your thoughts?
23:21 < dasunt> sdodson: In this area, I'd like one for winter.
23:22 < dasunt> They are more reliable, and we're level enough that the lack of gears usually isn't a problem.
23:23 < dasunt> I have a frame that, next spring, might become a fixed wheel.
23:23 <@timoguin> http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/765370039.html
23:24 <@timoguin> I only use gears 6 and 7, the manly gear and the big muscles gear.
23:24 < dasunt> I have a triple now in front, and a 7 speed in the back.
23:25 < dasunt> But it is effectively a double, with a really low granny gear as the third chainring on the triple.
23:26 < dasunt> sdodson: Btw, the Surly Steamroller isn't a bad fixie.
23:27 < dasunt> Oh well, nap time.
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23:33 <@sdodson> fixies and people who ride them make me laugh
23:35 < Peaches84> hello eveyone
23:36 <+SmthingPrductive> hello
23:46 < Peaches84> how are you doing
23:48 <+SmthingPrductive> standardly mediocre... and you?
23:49 < Peaches84> i am sleepy fixin to go to bed
23:50 <+SmthingPrductive> I should be fixin' to go to bed, but I'm completely irresponsible ;)
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 20 00:00:29 2008