--- Log opened Mon Oct 06 00:00:59 2008
00:15 <@Catonic> sup aestetix
00:15 <@Catonic> sup aestetix_
00:18 <@dasunt> http://xkcd.com/ <- This comic accidentally reveals the necessary steps to completely remove a Vista install.
00:19 <@Catonic> thermite
00:22 <@dasunt> That only works for corporal things.
00:23 <@Catonic> rainman had better social skills than bill gates
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00:38 < jb7od> come on, magic 40, do your stuff..
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00:44 <@dasunt> drunk amazon purchase #572:  http://www.salon.com/books/review/2006/12/20/rose/
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02:24 < jb7od> (-_0)
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06:39 <@Catonic> that was fun
06:41 < TheLightcosine> ?
06:44 <@Catonic> moving virtual machine images around
06:45 <@Catonic> shutdown to single user, and dump/restore
06:47 <@Shadow404> Catonic: what antennas were you playing with
06:47 <@Shadow404> got distracted by wow when i commented last night
06:49 <@Catonic> cut a discone down to nothing and made an omni directional that isn't vertical
06:59 < TheLightcosine> Jack Thompson has been disbarred!
06:59 < TheLightcosine> http://kotaku.com/5054772/jack-thompson-disbarred
06:59 <@Shadow404> Catonic: very cool
07:00 <@Shadow404> Catonic: just resoldered the jpole for like the 4th time, but im done testing it and have finally found a permanent location in the attic for permanent installation
07:02 <@Shadow404> just finished rewiring the bitch with ring terminals for the cable connection, just gotta carry it up to the attic and run the cable to the top floor. Still need to get a female-female barrel connector so i can use my 100 ft jumper wire to run into the computer room
07:04 < nated0g_AG> hey Shadow404 i passed my ham test. am now a general class
07:04 <@Catonic> I just bought a tee the other day, cost me $13.
07:05 <@Catonic> Next time I walk into that store, im asking if it's silver plated.. .because I know the man I can get silver-plated from for the same money
07:05 <@Catonic> Shadow404: you need to download a copy of MMANA-GAL and play with it
07:06 < nated0g_AG> fing a, sirius online is down
07:07 <@Shadow404> nated0g_AG: nice, good work
07:07 <@Shadow404> pm me your callsign
07:08 < nated0g_AG> dont have it yet, nor equipment
07:09 <@sdodson> AG?
07:09 < nated0g_AG> authorized general
07:10 <@sdodson> Oh, I thought you were th new attourney general
07:10 < nated0g_AG> god no
07:11 <@Catonic> how can you tell if a file is a hardlink under linux?
07:16 <@brimstone> stat
07:16 <@brimstone> i think?
07:16 <@brimstone> well, i don't think you can now
07:17 <@brimstone> well, stat will tell you the IO Blocks
07:20 <@Catonic> stat shows the number of links
07:20 <@Catonic> the files had two, so I rm'd one and the file didn't disappear
07:24 <@Catonic> still trying to figure out how I should have more disc space avilable and I have less...
07:31 <@brimstone> did some files get truncated?
07:31 <@Shadow404> Catonic: it crashed on a 2meter calculation, heh
07:31 <@Shadow404> does the hf stuff just fine
--- Log closed Mon Oct 06 07:51:05 2008
--- Log opened Mon Oct 06 07:51:11 2008
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08:29 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
08:30 < Curbob> the channel was so nice and quiet ;)
08:30 <@Shadow404> meow
08:30 <@Shadow404> SkyDog_: you awake yet?
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08:51 < nated0g_wrk> morning
08:55 < cerkit> looks like we may see DOW 9,000 today
08:55 < cerkit> every indicator isdancing with some old support and new resistance numbers.
08:55 < cerkit> but S&Ps under 1080...
08:56 < cerkit> so, we're probably going lower.
08:58 <@Dolemite> cerkit : When did you decide that you wanted to rejoin the bottom feeding of #se2600?
09:01 < cerkit> I returned to the channel roughly a week or two ago.
09:03 < cerkit> Dolemite: Are you invested?
09:03 < cerkit> ( in the US stock market )
09:05 <@Dolemite> I have retirement savings in the mutual fund market, which only has about a 40% stock ratio
09:06 <@Dolemite> at least, the ones I've chosen
09:06 <@Dolemite> However, bonds aren't exactly hot shit these days, either
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09:10 < rattleX> cerkit: Dow 9,000?  Are you joking?
09:10 < rattleX> Planning to go out and buy canned food today?
09:11 < rattleX> I don't think the economy is going to take a 10% hit today.
09:11 <@Dolemite> We'll just bail out something else this week!
09:12 < rattleX> This is going to be an amusing week.
09:13 < rattleX> Obama is going to start reminding people of the Keating S&L scandal today in response the the bullshit Palin pulled this weekend.  If the market loses another 3% or 4% today, people will probably listen..
09:15 < nated0g_wrk> did anyone catch SNL this weekend
09:15 < nated0g_wrk> yet another palin sketch
09:15 < Curbob> the debate on SNL was funny
09:16 < nated0g_wrk> can i call you joe..i have a couple zingers i rehearsed
09:19 < cerkit> rattleX: no
09:19 < cerkit> rattleX: We're in the 9,000 price channel right now.
09:19 < rattleX> We did drop below dow 10k.  That's notable enough.  Big psychological mile point..
09:20 < cerkit> rattleX: we're also WAY, WAY off any support number for the S & P 500.
09:20 < cerkit> Meaning, we're going lower.
09:20 < rattleX> I'd hate to be a day trader.
09:20 < cerkit> Why, its just easy to make money on the way down.
09:20 < cerkit> Just short-sell transports.
09:21 < rattleX> You must be dealing with really small numbers.
09:21 < cerkit> Plenty of money in that.
09:21 < rattleX> Either that, or you have no idea what you are talking about.
09:21 < cerkit> What?
09:21 < Curbob> i thought they halted short selling
09:21 < cerkit> on Finanials... and naked short selling on everything
09:21 < cerkit> but not shorting, period.
09:21 < cerkit> You could short UPS for instance
09:22 < cerkit> its going to take an ass-kicking
09:22 < cerkit> anything in the DOW transports
09:23 < cerkit> rattleX: I'm not sure I understood what you said last.  I must be dealing with really small numbers or I don't know what I'm talking about...?
09:23 < cerkit> rattleX: what did that mean?  heh
09:24 < cerkit> You can SHORT, your existing positions.
09:24 < cerkit> It has nothing to do with the price.
09:24 < cerkit> Small or large.
09:26 < cerkit> haha, a friend of mine shorted Lehman until the ban, from March.
09:26 < cerkit> He made a buttload of money.
09:26 < cerkit> For now, its legal, and a perfectly viable way of making money in this kind of a market.
09:34 < cerkit> rattleX: well, I'm sure you meant it in the nicest possible way.
09:39 < rattleX> I have better things to do than argue about it.  The hedge and private fund managers I've talked to are hit my the same credit liquidity problems as most of the big traders.
09:40 < cerkit> I wasn't looking to argue at all, bro.
09:40 < rattleX> Your fund/portfolio is likely different.
09:40 < cerkit> Just asking what the heck that meant. heh.
09:41 < cerkit> The hedge funds actually have had an all-time high redemption rate, and haven't been trading nearly as much since the government required that they report short positions.
09:41 < rattleX> Unless your entire focus is bottom feeding the market, this whole situation sucks.
09:41 < cerkit> Agreed.
09:41 < cerkit> From a standpoint of equity, we've shed trillions this week alone.
09:41 < cerkit> Its terrible.
09:42 < cerkit> We're in the process of shedding about a trillion right now.
09:42 < cerkit> Down over 400 pts.
09:43 < cerkit> We've shed essentially the last 6 years of growth, since last October, when the dow was 14166 (10-08-2007 lose)
09:43 < cerkit> close*
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09:43 < cerkit> I was just saying, there ARE trading stratgies to make money -- you can do what everyone else is doing, and go short, out of all your positions.
09:43 < cerkit> so you can pair down losses.
09:44 <@nachoguy> why should we short UPS?
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09:44 < rattleX> This entire situation sucks in sooo many ways.  Everywhere my gf was talking with about coming on staff after she is done with the CPA has gone into a hiring freeze.
09:44 < cerkit> I paired down and out of about $11,000 this week alone.
09:45 < cerkit> nachoguy: Because, its margins will be squeezed by high commodity -- input - prices.
09:45 < cerkit> Once all this finds it way through to the dollar.  Theres just some lag-time on credit infusion effects.
09:45 < rattleX> As a side note, if we do hit dow 9k today, I'm holding it against you, personally.  Because you were the first I head say the number.  If it happens, I'm going to track you down and throw canned food through the windows of your house.  :)
09:46 < cerkit> When I say DOW 9,000, I mean the price-handle.  The fact that its now in the 9,000 range.
09:46 < cerkit> Sorry.
09:46 < cerkit> I didn't literally mean, DOW 9,000.
09:46 < cerkit> Thats just trader-jargon.
09:46 < cerkit> <--- too much time at Options exchanges.
09:46 < cerkit> :)
09:46 < booker404> holy [expletive]
09:47 <@nachoguy> neat.  I want to start mucking about with options, as soon as I have some cash
09:47 < cerkit> nachoguy: really?
09:47 < cerkit> boy do you have balls.
09:47 < cerkit> strictly optioning?
09:47 < cerkit> or do you have equity positions?
09:48 < cerkit> Options are nasty.
09:48 <@nachoguy> I'm not going to be a day trader and throw all my money into it.  Just something small to test the waters
09:48 <@nachoguy> right now it's moot though.  Anyone want a condo in Chicago?
09:49 <@nachoguy> =>
09:49 < cerkit> nachoguy: I would advise you to seek advice from a professional -- today's waters are not normal.
09:49 <@nachoguy> yeah, I realize that
09:49 < cerkit> hehe
09:49 < cerkit> they may halt trading today
09:49 < cerkit> we're almost down 600 pts.
09:49 < cerkit> and its not even lunch.
09:50 < cerkit> the psychological impact of a handle 9k on the DOW too, has to be troubling people.
09:50 <@nachoguy> hey, I hear that there was a european country (don't recall which one) that was trying to find someone to buy their bank.  Anybody knopw if they found a buyer?
09:51 < cerkit> No idea, would need more details.
09:51 < cerkit> Lots of Eurozone banks failing too.
09:51 <@nachoguy> I'm trying to find it
09:51 < cerkit> Ireland?
09:51 <+MxZBot> ireland is on my list of places to visit
09:51  * someninja[HC] watches his 401k die
09:51 < cerkit> Ireland had some problems last week, I thought
09:51 <@nachoguy> Belgium.
09:51 < cerkit> You know itd bad when _ebay_ announces they're cutting 10%
09:52 <@nachoguy> found it.  THeir prime minister was trying to find a buyer
09:52 < cerkit> Talk about a non-margin operation...
09:52 <@nachoguy> looks like Germany helped bail them out
09:52 < cerkit> nachoguy: Europe has a much better shot at surviving this, despite what you will hear from American media.
09:53 < cerkit> Countries there have individiual strength in local currencies -- we don't have inter-exhange.
09:53 < cerkit> We just have a very, shitty, dollar.
09:53 <@nachoguy> not pointing fingers, I just thought it was interesting the way the prime minister got involved
09:53 < cerkit> And a very, shitty balance sheet.
09:54 < cerkit> I really hope Mr. Obama has some creative methods for solving these problems.
09:55 < nated0g_wrk> geez the ham channel is cranky this morning
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09:56 < jb7[D]> lol. Obama will wash the shit off the dollars, for one.
09:56 < jb7[D]> and two, the balance sheets.
09:56 <@nachoguy> of course he does, he's from Chicago.  First, he'll hire his brother.  Then he'll start ripping up our airports.  Then he'll coerce enough people into doing what he wants and ultimately solving the problem in a mostly legal way.
09:56 <@nachoguy> I love Chicago politics =>
09:57 <@nachoguy> seriously, I do.  Love it or hate it, it works
09:58 <@nachoguy> just don't ask too many questions
10:03 < cerkit> The problems are deep in the roots of how we do business.
10:03 < cerkit> I'm not sure its so simple.
10:03 < cerkit> But, we shall see.
10:04 < cerkit> I'd like to go over to my nearest Wachovia and offer them 10 cents on a dollar for some of their furniture.
10:04 <@nachoguy> it's ok, he'll do the "play ball with me or maybe you'll have problems" game
10:04 <@nachoguy> and I'm done with the (true) Chicago political stereotypes.
10:05 < cerkit> I'm upset at myself though, I was prepared to pull the trigger on friday on about $8,000 worth of ultrashort dow etf.
10:05 < cerkit> It would hve paid off in spades this morning.
10:09 <@SkyDog_> Morning all.
10:09  * ladymerlin pokes SkyDog_ 
10:09 <@nachoguy> hey Skydog
10:09 <@SkyDog_> Hey!
10:09 <@SkyDog_> Hey nacho.
10:10 < cerkit> good morning, SkyDog.
10:10 < cerkit> Welcome to the Great Market sell-off of 2008. :)
10:10 <@SkyDog_> woohoo! How can I destroy the economy today?
10:11 < cerkit> I really get scared straight about my stock buying when Ebay sheds 10% of its perm. staff.
10:12 <@SkyDog_> Yeah...
10:12 < cerkit> I could understand if that was GM
10:12 <@SkyDog_> That would make more sense.
10:12 < cerkit> or even Dell or Apple
10:12 <@SkyDog_> I quit watching CNN in my office during the day.
10:12 < cerkit> But, that sounds like E-Bay is worried that Internet Retail is going to trend down.
10:12 <@SkyDog_> I now watch HBO. Less stressful.
10:12 < cerkit> Which I really didn't think would happen.
10:13 < cerkit> I hought retail would bubble onto the Internet
10:13 <@SkyDog_> I think all retail will trend down for a bit.
10:13 <@rhia> cerkit: yeah, ebay is sort of a glorified online garage sale - which normally spring up like mushrooms when the economy starts nosing down
10:13 < cerkit> Well yeah, but, I assumed it would force increase internet retail -- it saves gas, is usually cheaper than in-store prices, etc.
10:13 < cerkit> rhia: but they have no hard inputs.
10:13 < cerkit> Just the service and payroll.
10:14 <@SkyDog_> I dunno. I like to hold one if possible before I buy...
10:14 < cerkit> How fucking badly are they run for heaven-sake?
10:14 <@SkyDog_> That's been a problem for brick and mortar.
10:14 <@rhia> for straight sales, lots of brick and mortar stores are suffering, too
10:15 <@rhia> electronic stores around here have almost halved the cost of big ticket items in the last 3 months
10:15 < cerkit> at least the lunch-lull -- the downtime in volume when market-making trade off positions and go to lunch -- might spring some upside.
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10:16 < cerkit> as long as the idiot taking the position knows the prioritize buy orders when you're down 400 pts.
10:16 < cerkit> ( since there is no up-tick rule, anyway )
10:16 <@SkyDog_> It's all a matter of perspective. Sigh.
10:17 < cerkit> Valuations?  I suppose.
10:17 < cerkit> But book value isn't.
10:17 <@SkyDog_> True.
10:17 < cerkit> And a lot of these stocks are on lows that put them at book.
10:17 < cerkit> 21st Century Reality Holdings is 3 dollars below its book.
10:17 < TheLightcosine> man i walk away for a little bit, and when i come back se2600 has become macroeconmics 101 =P
10:18 < cerkit> ( in the recovery they stand to make Exxon's record profits look dull )
10:19 < cerkit> Bank stocks are one of the worst, obviously.  They've been Buster Douglas'd for the last 6 months.
10:19 < cerkit> So, if you think our country will survive at all, there is a lot of money to be made in bank stocks.
10:20 < cerkit> Specificially, Money Center Banks, versus regionals and savings and loans.
10:20 < cerkit> I think thats a fools errand though.
10:23 <@SkyDog_> We'll survive.
10:23 <@SkyDog_> It won't be pretty.
10:23 < nated0g_wrk> as long as you have enough guns and ammo
10:23 < cerkit> I expected a crash Tuesday or Thursday.
10:24 < cerkit> They've been over-using market curbs.  They can only do it for so long.
10:24 < nated0g_wrk> well i got a tank full of gas and a glock
10:24 < TheLightcosine> but will that be enough for the zombies nated0g?
10:24 < cerkit> Its far from the end of the world.
10:24 < nated0g_wrk> well maybe i need more ammo
10:25 < nated0g_wrk> only have 3 mags
10:25 <@SkyDog_> I have a couple hundred rounds... Hmmm.
10:26 < cerkit> The end of the world would be a process elegant and clean, by comparison to the kinf of effects on society a slow-bleed to our economy could cause.
10:26 < cerkit> I'm confident a change in leadership in November, will provide the needed directional shift to begin fixing things though.
10:26 <@SkyDog_> Ok, I need to get take a shot of scothc now. Whee! I now have  a case of the mondays!
10:26 < TheLightcosine> It's time we as a people realsied that just ebcause we want something and want it right now doesn't mean the unvierse will line up and give it to us
10:27 < cerkit> Actually, its the market itself telling us we can't have things.
10:27 < TheLightcosine> you can't escape cosnequence, only delay it
10:27 <@rhia> TheLightcosine: Didn't you read "The Secret"?!?!  <g>
10:27 < TheLightcosine> The Secret?
10:27 < cerkit> Like a perpetually rising mortgage market.
10:28 < cerkit> We can't have that for instance.
10:28 <@rhia> that's EXACTLY how things are supposed to work, you just gotta want it bad enough!
10:28 < cerkit> it would be cool to see the market replace a hundred and a half or so.
10:29 < cerkit> something to put it back over 10k.
10:29 < TheLightcosine> cerkit: next you'll be telling me zero point energy isn't really harnessable for abundant cheap energy =p
10:29 < cerkit> that would help psychology going forward.
10:29 <@rhia> TheLightcosine: some newage book about how wanting something bad enough to picture it in your head would magically "manifest it" in your life
10:29 <@ShadowHntr> LOL rhia don't i wish that worked in real life. :)
10:29 < cerkit> I'm not the one telling any of those things -- as I said, its the market itself.
10:29 < TheLightcosine> rhia: sounds like Crowley to me
10:30 <@rhia> was all over msm when it came out
10:30 < cerkit> MRS. OPRAH!
10:30 < cerkit> ya know
10:30 < cerkit> like Mr. Crowley?
10:30 < cerkit> n/m
10:31 < cerkit> isn't Oprah the one behind "the secret"?
10:31 <@rhia> cerkit: think Oprah had it on her book club whatever or some such, but she didn't write it
10:31 < cerkit> oh
10:31 < cerkit> too bad
10:31 < cerkit> shows how much brain time i afford that topic
10:31 < cerkit> heh
10:32 <@rhia> i heard of it first from Bill Maher
10:32 <@rhia> let's say he is less than impressed <g>
10:32 < cerkit> Of course.
10:32 < TheLightcosine> lol
10:32 < TheLightcosine> i can hear him now
10:33 < cerkit> He's an... aggressive-aetheist.
10:33 <@rhia> cerkit: more he's a militant agnostic
10:33 < cerkit> i don't think thats any better than his opposition
10:33 < cerkit> and i'm on his side
10:33 < cerkit> heh
10:34 <@rhia> he never says that SOME form of something exists, just not some bearded dude on a cloud granting wishes like santa
10:34 < cerkit> i think just as much as we ought question people who allow religion to influence their decisions, we ought question those who lack faith and how that influences theres.
10:34 <@rhia> that's what his movie religulous is about
10:35 < cerkit> only because there are many successes attributed to people blindly, foolishigly believing.
10:35 < TheLightcosine> agressive atheism has become a form of religion too
10:35 < cerkit> TheLightcosine: thats like saying bald is a color for hair
10:35 <@rhia> cerkit: eh, history rarely writes a lot of detail about the losers ...
10:36 < cerkit> please.
10:36 < cerkit> those are just people pissed off
10:36 < TheLightcosine> no it isn't at all
10:36 < cerkit> because they are the minority
10:36 < TheLightcosine> religion is an organised system of belief and ideals
10:36 < cerkit> so they're reaching further to one side.
10:36 <@rhia> how many people blindly, foolishly believed and had bad shit happen anyway?  bet it's more than the other way
10:36 < TheLightcosine> atheism has definately rogansied in many acses and is the beleif that god does NOT exist
10:36 < cerkit> thats not a belief
10:36 <@ShadowHntr> what?
10:36 <@ShadowHntr> wanna spell?
10:37 <@ShadowHntr> sorry, think i can read it now.
10:37 < cerkit> its a currently accepted theory, given the evidence.
10:37 < cerkit> theres quite a difference.
10:37 < cerkit> you'd do well to understand it.
10:38 < TheLightcosine> lol
10:38 < cerkit> do you think if God came down tomorrow and stood in Central Park, making rainbows, the aethists would call revolt against their "beliefs"?
10:38 < cerkit> PLEASE.
10:38 < TheLightcosine> did I say I believed those things?
10:38 < TheLightcosine> no i didn't
10:39 < cerkit> No.
10:39 <@Drag0n> nope, but the cristians would put him in an asylum as a loonie
10:39 < cerkit> You said they were "beliefs"
10:39 < cerkit> I'm simply making sure the distinction is clear.
10:39 < cerkit> a belief is not nearly the same thing, as a theory, or a hypothesis.
10:40 <@rhia> Drag0n: first, they'd flock asking him to substantiate their narrow view as THE right one, then have him committed when he didn't agree with them
10:40 < cerkit> whether or not people come together to agree on an idea, is not an organization of a religion
10:40 < cerkit> an organized religion has specific aspects.
10:40 < cerkit> thts all i'm saying.
10:40 < TheLightcosine> oh, and what are those?
10:40 < TheLightcosine> what makes it that much different?
10:41 < TheLightcosine> you are palying at the same game the religious side does
10:41 < TheLightcosine> you find little nuances to try and explain how your side is absolute truth, and their's is insane or ehresy
10:41 < TheLightcosine> MY point is this
10:41 < cerkit> no
10:41 < cerkit> i don't
10:41 < cerkit> i don't find my position to be
10:41 < cerkit> the absolute truth
10:41 < TheLightcosine> rabid atheists are as guilt of prejudice and hate mognering at times as religious fantaics
10:42 < cerkit> i find it to be a theory
10:42 < cerkit> heh
10:42 < cerkit> you really ought to read what i've been saying
10:42 <@rhia> TheLightcosine: for that matter, so are rabid Packer fans
10:42 < TheLightcosine> you mean where you make a bombastic statement followed by "Please."
10:42 < TheLightcosine> rhia: exactly.
10:43 < cerkit> he's making a leap; equating beliefs with things like theories.
10:43 <@rhia> are Packer Backers a religious group?
10:43 <@Drag0n> well, they sure are FANatical
10:43 < TheLightcosine> no, fandom is not the same as believing something
10:43 <@nachoguy> Cheeseheads?
10:43 < cerkit> EXACTLY
10:44 < cerkit> I am a fan
10:44 < cerkit> then
10:44 < cerkit> use that word if thats what you need
10:44 < cerkit> haha
10:44 <@nachoguy> after that touchdown pass that Donald Driver caught, they better have some sort of Deity involved.
10:44 < cerkit> I'm a fan of the scientific evidence.
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10:44 < TheLightcosine> so what you're saying "i don't believe there is no god, i'm just a fan of the idea"
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10:44 < TheLightcosine> no
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10:44 < TheLightcosine> you BELIEVE in that evidence
10:44 < cerkit> no?
10:44 < cerkit> no
10:44 <@rhia> fandom is believing that what you're a fan of is better than average, otherwise, no fandom
10:44 < cerkit> hahaha
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10:44 < cerkit> I donot believe in any evidence.
10:45 < cerkit> Evidence is something you observe
10:45 < cerkit> theres no need to believe anything
10:45 < cerkit> hahahaha
10:45 < cerkit> what are you talking about?
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10:46 < cerkit> jury's believe or disbelieve evidence, as they are making a judgement.
10:46 < cerkit> heh
10:46 < cerkit> you're mixing things up, my man.
10:46 < cerkit> i'm open to ideas, a fan of a particular one.
10:46 < cerkit> this does not make me a believer of anything.
10:47 < cerkit> words have specific, important, context.  its paramount you not lump words all together as though they are the same thing.
10:47 <@rhia> TheLightcosine: there is a Church of Atheism, but most atheists are just non-believers in magikal mysticism, non-belief is not equatable to belief
10:47 < TheLightcosine> you beleive in what you think that evidence means
10:48 < TheLightcosine> which happens to be circumstantial at best at the moment
10:48 < cerkit> you mean i believe in my own abilities to do things?
10:48 < cerkit> like analyze that information?
10:48 < cerkit> sure.
10:48 <@rhia> that's like saying absolute dark is a form of light, not the absence of light
10:48 < cerkit> does that have anything to do with the information though?
10:48 < cerkit> or me?
10:48 < cerkit> it is absolutely circumstantial at best
10:48 < cerkit> thats what all science is
10:48 < TheLightcosine> rhia: I didn't say it applied to all atheists
10:48 < cerkit> admittedly
10:49 < TheLightcosine> i am very specifcally speaking of rabid atheists
10:49 < cerkit> I'm not one, but still don't see how they all fit into a lump thats the same as any organized religion.
10:49 <@rhia> TheLightcosine: um, ok ... you mention them later, but the gist of your argument did seem to be that atheism itself is a religion ... 2 different things
10:50 < TheLightcosine> that's the problem with making statements that are too general i suppose
10:50 < cerkit> Even rapid adopters of an idea are not religious neccessarily in nature-- fundemantalistic in that specific ideaset, sure.  But automatically spiritual or religious?  No.
10:50 < TheLightcosine> but in the same aspect there are people who beleive things similair to organised religinos out there but are not really lumped in with that religion
10:50 <@Corydon76-lap> General statements are generally wrong, even this one.
10:51 < cerkit> rabid*
10:52 < TheLightcosine> we are getting rather far afield from that initial point of covnersation in fact
10:52 < cerkit> If you wish to call them single-minded, or a group that views the world with the same sort of tunnel vision, I would agree.
10:52 < cerkit> But not to call them religious or an organized religion.
10:53 < TheLightcosine> they show the same traits as say the catholic church. "our dieas are right, everyone else is mad. You msut covnert to our ideas or we will make you an outcast"
10:53 < cerkit> thats like saying criminals == terrorists, terrorists == criminals.  which is untrue.
10:53 < cerkit> 1773, the US colonial revolt -- exhibit a.
10:53 < TheLightcosine> oh really
10:54 < TheLightcosine> so ntohing the original colonists did could be considered terrorism?
10:54 < cerkit> you're over-simpifiying.
10:54 <@rhia> TheLightcosine: fanaticism is found outside of religious spiritualism, not just a subset of it
10:54 < cerkit> thats all i'm saying.
10:54 < TheLightcosine> you over analysing what was a simple statement
10:54 < cerkit> Okay.
10:54 < cerkit> I will stepback then.
10:54 < TheLightcosine> and in doing so exhibiting some of the very traits i was talking about
10:54 < cerkit> And re-evaluate.
10:55 <@rhia> look at the Obamaphiles or Palinites, etc ....
10:55 < TheLightcosine> suppose we start this covnersation over, now that we seem to be at an impasse of terminology here
10:55 < TheLightcosine> I shall rephrase my statement thusly, to be less voerarching:
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10:56 < TheLightcosine> "The rabid atheists are every bit as bad as religious fantaics"
10:56 < cerkit> Agreed.
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10:57 < cerkit> Would you stipulate that you mean, in the conflict form of things, and not in an equal weigjt, sort of way?
10:57 <@rhia> ahh, i didn't get to mention the Hilliarite PUMA's ;)
10:57 < cerkit> Only because... the religious fanatics have killed many thousands of people over the centuries.
10:57 < aestetix_> vagina
10:58 < cerkit> Because in a lot of ways what you're saying is, Republicans are as bad as nazi's or something, haha.
10:58 < cerkit> rabid atheists did not go on a crusade that killed many thousands of people, to my knowledge (yet)
10:58 <@Corydon76-lap> Yes, but there are many more religious fanatics than rabid atheists
10:58 < cerkit> :)
10:58 < TheLightcosine> i mean conceptually yes, not on a physical practice level
10:58 < cerkit> okay then
10:58 < cerkit> yes, I agree
10:59 < TheLightcosine> corydon: that gap is dissolving slowly though
11:00 <@Corydon76-lap> TheLightcosine: I think most atheists are intelligent enough to realize the irony of being rabid and thus are not
11:00 <@remoford> "The rabid atheists are every bit as bad as religious fantaics" - never seen a rabid atheist withhold medical treatment for their children b/c !god told them to
11:00 < TheLightcosine> until 6 months ago i lived not 30 minutes away from the Dover school district where the big "intelligent design" debate was going on
11:00 < TheLightcosine> and both sides of that fight disgusted me
11:00 <@rhia> TheLightcosine: checked the numbers of the catholic church, the protestants churchs, and, oh, yeah, islam lately?
11:01 < TheLightcosine> it's embarassing when people who are suppsoed to be representing science resort to childish attacks, and leave themselves open by failnig to properly teach the scientific method in the first place
11:01 <@remoford> you ever seen a rabid atheist murder someone over their beliefs?
11:01 <@Drag0n> as well as the judaic synods
11:01 < eryc> all praise allah!!
11:01 < TheLightcosine> remoford: as i said, conceptually not physical practice
11:01 < cerkit> I'm sorry, I have not seen this Dover school district debate.
11:01 <@rhia> agnosticism may be on the rise in some areas, but rabid atheists still have a long, LONG way to go to even appear as a blip on the overall radar
11:01 <@Corydon76-lap> TheLightcosine: I think you're putting too fine of a point on that
11:02 <@Corydon76-lap> TheLightcosine: it's the concept of the beliefs which leads people to take extreme action, not the other way around
11:02 <@Corydon76-lap> TheLightcosine: so I think remoford just completely annihilated your thesis
11:02 < TheLightcosine> that's absurd
11:02 < TheLightcosine> by that logic, every christian fantaic goes out and kills people then
11:02 < TheLightcosine> or will go out and kill people
11:02 < eryc> all praise allah!!
11:03 <@remoford> dont try and make this a binary issue
11:03 <@remoford> its a matter of statistics
11:03 <@Corydon76-lap> TheLightcosine: there are more Christians who kill in the name of God than rabid atheists who simply argue
11:03 <@remoford> statistically, the more regligious you are
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11:03 <@remoford> the more irrational
11:03 <@rhia> TheLightcosine: not hardly, but in greater overall numbers, the chance of a larger subset of rabid fanatics exists....
11:03 <@remoford> and more likely to harm other human beings
11:03 <@Drag0n> theres something about the human mind, that even if you don't believe in any of the published religions, you still have that nagging "i cant be 100% certain, so i wont hedge my bets" to go true 100% fanatical athiest
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11:04 <@rhia> the advent of youtube as a forum for rabid atheism has just made them easier to see, but not increased their numbers to comparable levels
11:05 < eryc> i doubt you'll ever have any valid statistics for this argument
11:05 <@remoford> i was taught you cant belive in jesus to hedge your bets - as they said, satan belives
11:05 <@Corydon76-lap> TheLightcosine: besides, you assume incorrectly that everybody who argues against creationism in the schools is an atheist.  There are many monotheistic believers on that side, too
11:05 < TheLightcosine> people on the youtube forums hardly qualify as intelligent humans most of the time from what i've seen
11:05 < eryc> make believe friends are very convenient after you kill someone
11:05 < TheLightcosine> corydon: show me where i said anything like that
11:05 <@Drag0n> even the catholic church believes in evolutionism now
11:06 < eryc> yea jesus made evolution
11:06 <@Corydon76-lap> TheLightcosine: in any case, I think the argument has been soundly trounced, and you'd do better to find yourself a new thesis.
11:06 < TheLightcosine> there are pelnty of evolutionary biologists who are religious
11:06 < TheLightcosine> Greg Graffin's entire thesis paper was on that very subject
11:06 < TheLightcosine> I never made the claim they were ahteists
11:07 <@rhia> eryc: well, in a technical sense of many protestants, he did .... jesus was the word and in the beginning, god spoke (used the "word")
11:07 < TheLightcosine> however i am delayed atm in making my actual point, one sec
11:07 <@remoford> just dont say that rabid athiests are as bad as fundies in any measure except perhaps "assholism"
11:07 <@Corydon76-lap> You had a point?
11:07 <@rhia> ahh, the fun of graduating from a fundamentalist baptist church school
11:07 <@remoford> and im not sure i belive that either
11:07 <@Drag0n> the fact that Sarah Pailin beleivs in creationism ANd that the earth is only 6000 years old does not instill me with confidence in the theory's
11:08 <@Drag0n> well, athiests are just as bad at being misguided and delusional as the rest of the fundies
11:08 <@rhia> so, when everything was created, even evolutionism, the 'word'(jesus) created it .... how's THAT for tortured logic?
11:08 <@remoford> rhia: i had the unplesant experience of k-12 in a fundamentalism baptist school
11:08 < TheLightcosine> yes corydon: the same ponit i ahve been making all along. the way it was handled was appaling
11:08 <@remoford> so in the intrest of being fair, i *am* biased
11:08 <@rhia> and some people wonder why i'm not a baptist <g>
11:09 < cerkit> remoford: I agreed with him at the beginning, once he clarified that he meant, they are as bad, only in concept and not in practice.
11:09 <@rhia> remoford: i empathise =/
11:09 < cerkit> For me, that was concession enough.
11:09 <@Corydon76-lap> TheLightcosine: I was late to the discussion.  What was your point?
11:09 <@Drag0n> everyone is biased, only a closed environment can be unbiased, untill you open the box to look at the cat
11:09 <@remoford> biased that these people are dangerous and very often mentally ill
11:09 < nated0g_wrk> kill whitey!
11:10 <@rhia> remoford: brainwashed fits well
11:10 < cerkit> Man.
11:10 < cerkit> on half the avg volume, we're still down 400 pts.
11:10 < cerkit> the DOW is taking it on the chin.
11:10 < nated0g_wrk> that sounds remotely gross
11:11 <@Drag0n> better than in the eye
11:11 < cerkit> when you figure these effects into the job numbers -- it is gross
11:11 <@Corydon76-lap> Clearly, what distressed Wall Street last Monday wasn't that Congress didn't pass the bailout, but that they were considering a bailout at ALL.
11:11 < cerkit> exactly.
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11:12 < cerkit> And, the fact that we're in a recession.
11:12 < cerkit> We now have to price that in effectively.
11:12 <@rhia> wow, a boxing term is now gross ... what was nated0g_wrk possibly thinking? (cough*bukaki*cough?)
11:12 <@Drag0n> more like they were not considering the correct soution and adding more pork to the fire
11:13 < rattleX> Wall St is in selloff mode.  And no one has any credit..  _Anything_ will cause a drop.
11:13 < nated0g_wrk> never heard taking it to the chin as a boxing term
11:13 < nated0g_wrk> course never watched it that much, just in tyson early days
11:13 <@Corydon76-lap> I'm going to have to go ahead and dispute that people can't get credit.   Ummm, yeah.
11:13 < cerkit> Drag0n: The only bill that might have lifted things immediately, would have been the more sensible 600b buyout, of all 2,000,000 distressed mortgages at $300,000 per, well over the $212,500 national avg.
11:14 <@Corydon76-lap> Considering I just got credit this morning, there ain't no credit problem.
11:14 < cerkit> Instead, Wall St., whats left of it anyway, knows, they bought paper.
11:14 < cerkit> It acts as a credit infusion, in other words, which have 3-9 month lags.
11:14 <@Drag0n> yep, but why would a congress critter bail out someone who doesnt give them graft?
11:14 < nated0g_wrk> so Corydon76-dig i passed my test saturday. am a general class operator...BUT the fcc uls only shows me as a technician
11:15 < cerkit> It was intended to lift the credit market, not the stock market, but either way, it failed.
11:15 <@Corydon76-lap> nated0g_AG: you were already a tech?
11:15 <@Drag0n> honestly, for 100 bil, everyone could be given 300,000 to pay for a new home or pay off their mortgage
11:15 < cerkit> And now, we're pricing in a potentially, long recession.
11:15 < nated0g_wrk> no
11:16 < TheLightcosine> cerkit: what are you an economics professor?
11:16 < cerkit> $300k * 2m = 600b
11:16 <@Corydon76-lap> nated0g_AG: give it time
11:16 < cerkit> TheLightcosine: No.
11:16 < nated0g_wrk> hit tab one more time
11:16 <@Drag0n> subtract the numbers under 18 and over 75
11:16 <@Drag0n> as well as thos making over 2 mil a year
11:17 < cerkit> but just 2 million
11:17 < cerkit> at 300k is 600b
11:17 <@Corydon76-lap> Drag0n: uh, you're a little off on the decimal point
11:17 <@Drag0n> take into consideration that is before taxes, so the gubment would be getting some of that back
11:17 < cerkit> we have a lot more if you include "everyone" subtracting those you have said so far, i think
11:17 <@Drag0n> and i was rounding
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11:18 <@Corydon76-lap> Drag0n: $600b is only about $5k to each citizen
11:18 <@Corydon76-lap> or less, actually
11:18 < cerkit> yeah, that sounds closer to right to me
11:18 <@Corydon76-lap> $3k
11:18 < cerkit> yeah
11:18 <@rhia> 300 million citizens
11:18 < cerkit> thats better
11:18 < cerkit> :)
11:18 <@Corydon76-lap> rhia: 300 million people, 200 million citizens above 18
11:18 <@rhia> well, census says 300 million
11:18 <@rhia> yeah
11:18 < cerkit> he did some subtracting
11:19 < cerkit> not that that would piss anyone off or anything :)
11:19 <@rhia> isn't a billion a thousand million? or a hundred million? damn, /rhia requires coffee NOW
11:20 <@Corydon76-lap> rhia: depends on whether you're using the American number system or the British number system
11:20 <@remoford> so i presume that the bailout goes into the deficit
11:20 <@Corydon76-lap> In American, a billion is a thousand million.
11:20 <@remoford> and not out of taxes next year
11:20 <@Corydon76-lap> remoford: into the debt, too
11:20 <@Drag0n> and the british system?
11:20 <@Corydon76-lap> remoford: 7% increase in national debt
11:20 <@remoford> cause i dont have an extra 5k to give the govt
11:21 <@Corydon76-lap> In the British system, a billion is a million million
11:21 <@Drag0n> leave it to the brits
11:21 <@Corydon76-lap> Or in other words, a British billion is an American trillion
11:21 <@Corydon76-lap> Drag0n: actually, the Americans are the only ones who do it this way
11:22  * remoford invests in a plow and extra horseshoes
11:22 <@nachoguy> really?  well, that's a tad fucked up. What do they call an american billion?
11:22 < TheLightcosine> i beleive the british equivilant for a us trillion is milliards actually
11:22 <@Corydon76-lap> nachoguy: a thousand million
11:22 <@nachoguy> fair enough
11:22 < TheLightcosine> or do i have that backwards?
11:22 <@remoford> can we just call them gigadollars?
11:23 <@Corydon76-lap> remoford: heh
11:23 <@Corydon76-lap> remoford: that's actually one system that isn't confusing across cultures
11:23 <@remoford> and while we are at it, regularize what side the unit goes on
11:23 <@remoford> its 700G$
11:23 < cerkit> I can tell you this, the commercial paper market is fucking frozen stiff, mostly because a lot of funds have either closed, went through a rapid period of redemptions, or is just sitting on the side-lines.
11:23 < cerkit> And eventually, that will begin to effect the US payroll.
11:24 < cerkit> That friends, is bad, bad news.
11:24 <@Corydon76-lap> remoford: you have to be careful there, though, because 700 G's means $700,000 to Americans
11:24 <@remoford> yeah
11:24 <@Drag0n> that or a really heavy gravity level
11:24 <@nachoguy> or a hell of a lot of gang-bangers.
11:24 < cerkit> A fund a school I work for -- CommonFund -- just closed last week.
11:25 <@nachoguy> the shooting guns kind, not the orgy kind
11:25 < cerkit> The school had $20 million wrapped up in it.  It was entrusted at Wachovia.
11:25 <@remoford> cerkit: so, as a person with not a lot in the bank but absolutly no debt, what should i be doing w/ my money
11:25 <@Drag0n> remoford, giving it to your friends....friend
11:25 <@Corydon76-lap> remoford: What are you saving for?
11:25 <@remoford> putting it under the mattress? in the bank? money market
11:25 < cerkit> remoford: probably waiting for a good shift in foreign currencies and piling some up in another unit.
11:26 <@Corydon76-lap> remoford: if retirement, then invest in the stock market
11:26 <@remoford> Corydon76-lap: im not really saving *for* anythings
11:26 < cerkit> there will be some good movement there
11:26 <@remoford> its just that my expenses are lower than my income on average
11:26 < TheLightcosine> ah, a billion is a millaird, and a trillion is a billion, i did have it backwards
11:26 <@Corydon76-lap> Use a mutual fund if you're unsure about what to invest in
11:26 < cerkit> but, you have to pick the right countries.
11:26 <@remoford> this is a new situation for me to be in so i dunno wtf to do
11:26 < cerkit> for now, i would say put it in the bank, and invest in some time on the web
11:27 < cerkit> and perhaps get some books on the subject
11:27 <@Corydon76-lap> remoford: as you get older, start to shirt percentages into government bonds
11:27 <@oddball> cerkit: ummm... Wachovia is still open for buisness as usual... just being bought by whoever wins the fight between CitiGroup and Wells Fargo
11:27 < cerkit> though, books will tell you little about this kind of market.
11:27 <@Corydon76-lap> remoford: if you want a safe investment the whole time, invest in muni bonds
11:27 < cerkit> oddball: Please google "CommonFund"
11:28 < cerkit> I was talking about that fund, Wachovia was the trustee.
11:28 < cerkit> Many private universities were invested in it.
11:28 < cerkit> They closed it at least temporarily, and freezed redepmtions at 37%
11:28 < cerkit> They have 60 days to find another trustee.
11:28 <@remoford> well this summer i hedged my "am i going to get another contract or not" bets w/ a nice garden
11:29 <@oddball> ok
11:29 < cerkit> It was 85% commercial paper, 15% mortgage backed securities in the portfolio.
11:30 < cerkit> Something like 900 to 1,100 schools were invested.
11:30 < cerkit> They used it like a money market fund.
11:30 < cerkit> I wish they published whose Commercial Paper they held.  That would be telling.
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11:34 <@rhia> sheesh, found the comment alluded to earlier:  http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/26/durbin-iraq-economy/#comment-5253110
11:34 <@rhia> ~minilink
11:34 <+MxZBot> http://maxiez.com/l/thinkprogress.org/y6rY7
11:35 <@rhia> hmm, minilink 404's, full link works
11:35  * rhia pets MxZBot  
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11:36 < TheLightcosine> rhia: trickle-UP economics? =P
11:37 <@Drag0n> yep
11:37 < TheLightcosine> makes sense to me
11:37 <@Drag0n> even if the individual just blows it all, its being put back in the economy
11:37 < eryc> trickle me this
11:37 < TheLightcosine> yeah
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11:38 <@Drag0n> the only risk, and rhia and i discused this is everyone quiting work because they dont need to work for a while
11:38 < eryc> all praise allah!!
11:39 < TheLightcosine> in favor of some positive spin , i ehard an amazing statement( have not tried to verify it tho) that while we have had this ongonig economic crisis and hardships from the begining of the year, the ammount of money given in charitable donations by us citizens has not decreased
11:39 < eryc> its miley!
11:39 < TheLightcosine> and if that's true, that's pretty damn awesome in my book
11:39 <@Drag0n> so you make it in a form of specific vouchers, percentage for housing (mortgage, rent, utilities) percentage for education, a percentage to medical
11:39 <@nachoguy> heh, I love the soup!
11:39 <@rhia> vouchers - housing (mortgage, rent, lease, whatever) possibly medical/education/debt, plus a little cash
11:39 < cerkit> oh no
11:39 < cerkit> i'll need coupons?
11:39 < cerkit> wow.
11:39 < TheLightcosine> drag0n: carefully they'll call you a socialist =P
11:40 <@Drag0n> small buisness owners could use it for buisness leases
11:40 <@Drag0n> socialism works in Sweden
11:40 <@Drag0n> the USSR was not a socialist society
11:40 < TheLightcosine> indeed, i actually find a lot right with the way the sweedes do a bunch of things
11:40 < eryc> nachoguy: hells ya!
11:40 <@Drag0n> same here, at least they get services for the taxes they pay
11:40 < TheLightcosine> heh, they were the opposite of what Marx taught
11:41 <@rhia> TheLightcosine: well, artesian wells trickle fresh water up, trickle down just proved that shit rolls down hill <g>
11:41 < TheLightcosine> and in sweeden you can go to state uni for free, or you can pay for a private uni, but if you don't go then they toss you in the military automatically
11:42 < cerkit> *gulp* how do you get rish in sweeden?
11:42 < cerkit> rich*
11:42 < TheLightcosine> yeah, and that is exactly why it won't fly here heh
11:42 < TheLightcosine> same with Denmark
11:42 < TheLightcosine> in Denmark they pay almsot 50% tax
11:42 < TheLightcosine> but all education and healthcare is provided
11:42 <@Drag0n> and you are garuntee'd housing, not saying you wont get better than a prefabed wooden box 200 ft square on the side of the road, but it will have power, water, and not leak
11:43 < TheLightcosine> from what i udnerstand there is ltitle to no class division in Denmark
11:43 < cerkit> I don't like this idea.
11:43 <@Drag0n> in sweeden, you get rich by starting buisnesses, working hard
11:43 < cerkit> You have to wait until after college.
11:43 < cerkit> That means a guy like me...
11:43 < cerkit> would have been forced in the military since I wanted to start a business
11:43 < cerkit> and not go to school
11:44 <@Drag0n> everyone in sweeden has to serve in the military
11:44 < TheLightcosine> of course Denmakr is also like 98% heterogenous or some crazy such number
11:44 < cerkit> Yeah, I don't need to do that.
11:44 < TheLightcosine> but they have been rated the happiest country in the world
11:44 <@Drag0n> when was the last time you heard the sweeds go to war?
11:44 < TheLightcosine> lol really
11:45 <@Drag0n> more like a glorified boy scouts with a castrated logo
11:46 < eryc> 1918 was that last war sweden was in
11:46 <@Drag0n> plus, you dont have to fill the role of combatant, you can select for a support role if you dont wish to fight
11:46 < cerkit> its not about not wanting to fight
11:46 < eryc> i choose comfort man
11:46 < cerkit> its about not wanting to be in the military
11:46 < TheLightcosine> you know what MY problem with all of these places is?
11:46 < TheLightcosine> They're bloody cold
11:47 <@rhia> ditto
11:47 <@rhia> heh
11:47 <@Drag0n> umm, there is the frostbite factor
11:47 < TheLightcosine> The sweedes sit up there not bothering anyone thinknig "who's gunna come all the way up here to fuck with us?"
11:48 <@Drag0n> but the women are very attractive and the schools are very good, and the food is very good, and they have damned good healthcare
11:48 < eryc> penguins in brazilian planes?
11:48 < TheLightcosine> hrm, never had sweedish cuisine
11:48 < TheLightcosine> what's it consist of?
11:48 < eryc> meatballs
11:48 <@rhia> cerkit: interested to hear your view on the link i posted (plus the comments made afterward) - the trickle up economic plan
11:49 <@Drag0n> raindeer, mmm, rudolf on a plate
11:49 <@rhia> and reindeer
11:49 <@rhia> and ligonberries
11:49 <@remoford> lots of dairy also dont they?
11:49 <@Drag0n> and damned good chocolate
11:49 < eryc> and cinnamon rolls
11:49 < cerkit> I'm really not economics expert.
11:49 <@rhia> and lots of pancakes/crepes
11:49 < TheLightcosine> i bet reindeer would be good
11:49 < TheLightcosine> just like regular deer
11:49 < TheLightcosine> coulda fooled me lol
11:49 <@rhia> cerkit: heh, like any of us are? <g>
11:49 <@remoford> so basically they eat everything my doctor says not to
11:49 <@remoford> hehe
11:49 < cerkit> I'm a student of the world market, heh, I mean, I watch was goes on and I apply what I learn.
11:50  * TheLightcosine is terrible with money
11:50 < eryc> give it all to me
11:50 < TheLightcosine> that's why my wife runs the bank accounts lol
11:50 <@Drag0n> this isnt #financial-annalysys its #se2600, since when do we have to be experts to hack a system?
11:50 <@rhia> remoford: they eat a LOT of fish, too
11:50 < cerkit> I made a bit of money the week FRE went from .33 to 2.30s
11:50 <@Drag0n> salmon and caviar
11:50 < cerkit> as a for instance.
11:51 <@remoford> yeah trying to eat more fish
11:51 < cerkit> I also made money on SOV, WB, IDMC & LEHMQ around the same time.
11:51 < cerkit> Using about the same strategy.
11:52 <@Drag0n> and if you want to be an isolationist, they have 10,000 islands
11:53 <@Drag0n> course, in the dead of winter, you can still walk to town from your island
11:53 <@remoford> that sounds pretty awesome
11:53 <@rhia> at least their public transportation actually functions properly
11:53 <@Drag0n> thats it, jesus was a sweede, he walked on water....so it was solid ice, its still water
11:54 <@Drag0n> they have a damned good pubic transit system
11:55 < TheLightcosine> plus the sweedes are typically the nciest people
11:55 < TheLightcosine> and their IT pool must be terrible cus our IT people in sweeden are all dumb as shit
11:55 <@Drag0n> yep, very nice, i enjoyed the month i spent in stockholm very much
11:55 <@ShadowHntr> lol
11:56 <@ShadowHntr> TheLightcosine: however not all Swedes in IT are twats, some of them know their stuff. :)
11:56 <@Drag0n> actualy cos, i think thats just bad luck on your part about the IT pool
11:56 < TheLightcosine> the head of IT for sweeden, got the wrong type of expansion card so he dremmeled off the extra pins
11:56 < TheLightcosine> when it didn't work he wanted us to replace it
11:56 <@rhia> TheLightcosine: unfortunately, idiocy is world wide
11:57 <@Drag0n> definetly not sweedish, they didnt hold a meeting about it first
11:57 < TheLightcosine> maybe there are just really good it jobs there so all that's left for us are the morons heh
11:57 < TheLightcosine> yes, "stupid knows no language"
11:57 <@rhia> the IT folks that Drag0n worked with were sharp ... held up in meetings about meeting to plan meetings, but technically sharp
11:57 < TheLightcosine> lol
11:57 <@Drag0n> yep, sweeden moves on their meetings
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12:01 < TheLightcosine> well quttin time
12:01 < TheLightcosine> cheers
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12:01 <@SkyDog_> Mudflap! woohoo!
12:01 < MudFlap> I survived!
12:02 <@SkyDog_> Survived? You should be nice and relaxed now!
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12:08 <@Shadow404> SkyDog_: hey, bough a new handgun just in time for phreaknic shootout this weekend
12:08 <@Shadow404> glock .40 cal model 23
12:09 <@Shadow404> brand new, only been factory test fired
12:09 <@SkyDog_> Nice man!
12:09 <@SkyDog_> We need to make sure we have some extra ammo to pass it around a bit. I have never shot a .40 glock.
12:09 <@oddball> hell of a step up form your first pistol!
12:09 <@SkyDog_> If you'll let us, that is.
12:09 <@Shadow404> oddball: yes it is
12:09 < nated0g_wrk> i have a G23 as well
12:09 <@Shadow404> SkyDog_: hell yeah, must return the favor from shootouts past
12:09 < nated0g_wrk> factory night sights
12:10 <@SkyDog_> Damn skippy. That's cool.
12:10 <@Shadow404> SkyDog_: scotchick bought a 500 rnd canister of remanufacured .40 cal
12:10 <@remoford> Shadow404: this weekend?
12:10 <@Shadow404> for $105
12:10 <@Shadow404> remoford: no, bought the gun in time for pn when it coems up
12:10 <@SkyDog_> damn!
12:10 <@remoford> ah
12:11 <@remoford> the shoot is sunday afternoon after the con right?
12:11 <@oddball> Shadow404: you need to talk to WizardPC about buying bullets in ziplock baggies.
12:11 <@Shadow404> heh, ga arms sales their shit that way
12:11 <@Shadow404> in 50 quanity plastic heat bags
12:11 <@Shadow404> *heat sealed
12:11  * aestetix_ hugs Dolemite 
12:12 <@Shadow404> i also got a high capacity clip and 2 clips worth of hydroshocks
12:12 <@Shadow404> and then a nice holster for my carry permit
12:12 <@SkyDog_> remoford: Yes.
12:12 <@Shadow404> SkyDog_: does the range we use allow holster practice or is it barrel down range at all times?
12:13 <@oddball> no holsters
12:13 <@Shadow404> damn
12:13 <@SkyDog_> Shadow404: Dunno. We're talking about going to a different range. someninja is talking to Guns and Leather.
12:13 <@Shadow404> ok, might have to hit my friend up in n. georgia to practive at this member only range
12:13 <@SkyDog_> The TWRA is no holsters.
12:13 <@Shadow404> ok
12:13 <@Dolemite> heh, Gene Simmons is going to be at Tootsie's Orchid Lounge from 7p-9p tonight
12:14 <@SkyDog_> Haha! Doing what? Trying to fuck anything that moves?
12:14 <@Shadow404> even the rats
12:14 <@Dolemite> Yeah, he's filming his reality tv show
12:14 <@Dolemite> which means he'll be trying to pick up some corn fed titties
12:14 <@Shadow404> giggity
12:14 <@oddball> SkyDog_: I know most people here prefer pistols, but, if you guys do Guns & Leather, you should let people know that they don't allow rifles.
12:15 <@SkyDog_> Yeah. that has been one of the talking points on it.
12:15 <@Shadow404> oddball: man, that means your wont be bringing out the springfield?
12:15 <@SkyDog_> Enclosed area, computer range, etc have been the high sides.
12:16 <@SkyDog_> It's still in discussion.
12:16 <@oddball> Shadow404: You mean the Nagant?  They sure as hell won't let me fire that canon indoors.
12:16 <@Shadow404> i was a pretty good shot with that, until my ear guard slipped and i couldnt hear with a damn on the drive home
12:16 <@oddball> heh, yeah...
12:17  * Shadow404 makes note to invest in nice ear guards
12:17 <@oddball> I won't be able to make it for Phreaknic, but I might go to the shoot.
12:17 <@SkyDog_> oddball: Why no PN?
12:17 <@oddball> got shit to do that weekend.
12:17 <@SkyDog_> Sigh. That sucks.
12:18 <@oddball> eh, one of the things is Naienko and I are going to see Avenue Q. :)
12:18 <@Shadow404> looks like a fun play
12:25 < nated0g_wrk> alright, the VEC is on top of my issue and will be resolved
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12:48 <@oddball> The entirety of an email I just recieved: We need your help. We need a converter to translate some files.
12:50 < aestetix_> You should reply with a link to google translate
12:50 <@Dagmar> Sed FAQ
12:50 <@Corydon76-lap> Send him an EBCDIC to ASCII translator
12:51 -!- droops [n=erickson@74.193.240.17] has quit []
12:51 <@Corydon76-lap> or better yet, the dos2unix utility
12:51 < nated0g_wrk> babelfish?
12:52 <@oddball> I asked her what type of files, and she described the content of the files.
12:53 <@oddball> aka "I try to pull it up and it's just gibberish."
12:53 <@oddball> And people wonder why smoking pot is so prevelant in the IT industry.
12:54 <@Dagmar> You've told her your consulting rate, right?
12:54 <@oddball> This is an employee for the company I work for.  So, no.
12:56 <@Dagmar> tell her to mail them to you
12:56 <@oddball> Yeah, I did.
12:57 <@Dagmar> Now tell the company veep that you've discovered an employee is transferring potentially sensitive documentation over unencrypted email.
12:57 <@I-MOD> lol
12:58 <@I-MOD> problem solved
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12:58 <@oddball> We need your help. We need a converter to translate some files.
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13:04 <@Dagmar> http://mfrost.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/10/05/my_little_cthulhu_by_spippo.jpg
13:05 <@tzanger> heh
13:14 < Evilpig> you know it is time to change up lunch spots when you walk into a restaurant and they have you chips, salsa and sweet tea already on the table
13:15 < Evilpig> oh and they refer to a particular table as "your table"
13:15 <@I-MOD> lol
13:15 <@Dolemite> sounds good to me
13:17 <@rhia> there's a bbq place here we visit, oh, once every 3 or 4 months, the big bald waiter recognizes us and brings us our tea orders almost before the greeter has us seated
13:17 <@rhia> he gets tipped well ;)
13:17 < Evilpig> john always gets $4 from me
13:33 <@rhia> http://stupidevilbastard.com/index/seb/comments/mediums_predict_aliens_will_arrive_on_october_14th_2008/
13:33 <@rhia> ~minilink
13:33 <+MxZBot> http://maxiez.com/l/stupidevilbastard.com/XJsd6
13:33 <@rhia> only a week to go!!
13:36 <@rhia> irrefutable proof, no less - makes perfect sense to pick Alabama for that but if they manage to relocate 'bama to the southern hemisphere, that might be a starting point
13:40 <@Dagmar> Well, it'll be cool if it happens but I ain't holdin' my breath
13:40 < Evilpig> please let first contact be a culling of the heard
13:40 < Evilpig> herd too
13:40 <@Dagmar> I would have thought my ride out of here would maybe contact me first, but I really don't need to pack much
13:41  * rhia hears Peter Gabriel music
13:41 < Evilpig> Dagmar: do you really think a farmer calls out ahead of time into the field to say it's slaughter time?
13:42 <@Dagmar> Exactly.
13:42 <@Dagmar> If they were coming to eat us, they wouldn't bother telling some loony psychic
13:42 <@rhia> Evilpig: easier to call 'em in for dinner than traipsing all over the back 40
13:42 <@tzanger> Dagmar: an old friend of mine used to say "I refuse to believe in any psychic who has to ask me for my credit card number."
13:44 < Evilpig> actually if I were coming to eat a race of people and there was some kind of galactic law that said I had to notify them first.  i'd tell the loonies
13:44 < Evilpig> they were warned.  just didn't hear it from a credible source
13:45 <@rhia> Evilpig: their marshmallow brains are particularly appetizing
13:45 < Evilpig> btw...  I think if you blow up a planet in spore, especially an ally's planet.  It makes alot of people hate you
13:45 <@Dagmar> Yep.
13:46 <@Dagmar> I never tried it but I assumed that would be the case.
13:46 <@Dagmar> No one likes people who blow up whole planets
13:46 < Evilpig> fuckin' ducks were bothering me.  I blew up all of their planets
13:46 < Evilpig> except their homeworld.  I took that over
13:46 <@Dagmar> I bought a few empires out of existance
13:47 < Evilpig> I had a heck of a run last night.  had 6 alliances.  blew one of them out of existence and two of those alliances turned against me
13:47 <@Dagmar> City-busters are cheaper than a world-destroyer, by the way
13:47 < Evilpig> yeah but they are totally not as cool looking
13:47 <@Dagmar> lol
13:48 < Evilpig> the whole planet ripples then explodes into a floating red ball with debris spinning off it
13:48 <@Dagmar> If you're very accurate about it you can just destroy their city hall
13:49 < Evilpig> that requires flying right down on it.  I prefer the nuke from above and fly onto the next city before the bright flash and the screaming subsides
13:49 <@Dagmar> I'm cheap
13:50 < Evilpig> I also like to start to abduct them and then drop em
13:50 < Evilpig> I really am an evil fucker sometimes now that I look at it
13:50  * Catonic yawns
13:51 <@Catonic> I'm a whore.
13:51 < Evilpig> oh Corydon76-lap did you hear what catonic said?
13:55 < eryc> its miley!
13:56 <@nachoguy> On this weeks Tyra...
13:56 < nated0g_wrk> ah full from lunch
13:57 < nated0g_wrk> Evilpig, been there when the waitress ask if we want a full pitcher or half pitcher of margarita
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14:08 <@Shadow404> nated0g_wrk: full please
14:09 <@Shadow404> i still have half a day of work left
14:10 <@Catonic> I still have to get to work
14:10 <@Catonic> and I could use a full pitcher now
14:11 < nated0g_wrk> so do i
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14:35 <@Dagmar> I think I found my new helmet
14:35 <@Dagmar> http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/38/10632/ITEM/HJC-CL-15-Crypt-Helmet.aspx
14:36 < nated0g_wrk> you need one with a mohawk on it
14:37 <@Dagmar> Nah
14:38 <@Dagmar> Doesn't look right on a scooter
14:38 <@Dagmar> I know I won't be buying another one from Howard's tho
14:38 <@critch> If you could, check with gearuphelmets.com if you order a helmet. They are good people and consistently help my riding club send money to St Judes Childrens Hospital.
14:38 <@Dagmar> They charge considerably more than MSRP
14:39 <@Dagmar> I'll look into their site next then
14:39 < nated0g_wrk> that would make me buy from a company if they donated to organizations like that
14:40 < nated0g_wrk> plus my wife might have a job there
14:40 <@Dagmar> Yeah, doesn't look like they have the crypt model
14:40 <@Dagmar> I might not actually need to buy a new helmet just yet
14:41 <@Dagmar> I think the face shield air leak is because I managed to foul the locking mechanism partially
14:41 <@Dagmar> I'm going to take it completely apart tomorrow and see if that doesn't sort it out
14:44 <@critch> Dagmar: the woman who runs gearuphelmets could possibly order it for you. They are good people.
14:44 <@critch> I don't want to seem pushy there. So I will leave it at that, thanks for the consideration.
14:45 <@Dagmar> Nah that's fine
14:45 <@Dagmar> I've actually gotten somewhat used to the idea that most of these places I'm going to hjave to ask to special order shit for me
14:46 <@Dagmar> Like, East Side Scooters is local, so I want to support 'em, but they have exactly *one* model of topcase in stock
14:46 <@Dagmar> ...which unfortunately has no fucking mount kit for my model of scooter.
14:46 <@critch> Have you been out to cyclegear yet? They have a pretty decent selection of helmets for you more normal sized headed people.
14:46 <@Dagmar> I'm pillaging Google still at the moment, with an eye towards sticking with the CL-15, mainly because it's got space pre-allocated inside for electronics
14:47 <@Dagmar> I suspected it from looking at it, but the literature supports this deduction
14:47 <@Dagmar> I definitely need to get a tinted shield
14:47 <@nachoguy> Dagmar, how fast does your scooter get?
14:47 <@critch> Unless you plan on keeping a clear sheild too, I suggest just having sunglasses under the shield.
14:47 <@nachoguy> electronics?  Like an ipod?
14:47 <@Dagmar> critch: I intend to use both during the day actually
14:48 <@Dagmar> <-- light sensitive eyes
14:48 <@Dagmar> Driving west on the way home during sunset is no fun at all with just sunglasses
14:48 <@critch> Yes, but think about the night when you can remove glasses easily, but the shield can be a pain to both change and/or carry the clear with you.
14:48 <@Dagmar> I have a space under the seat where a shield will store with no trouble at all
14:49 <@Dagmar> ...and these things come off easy once you know the trick of it
14:49 <@Dagmar> nachoguy: Mainly bluetooth earphones etc
14:49 <@critch> Okay, I just always found it easy enough to just wear sunglasses, but that is me.
14:49 <@Dagmar> Like, there's a conspicous gap behind the padding for the ears
14:49 <@Catonic> I posted some links that night that had a bluetooth adaptor so you could go wireles
14:50 <@Dagmar> Catonic: Were these more $180 earpieces?
14:50 <@critch> Dagmar: usually the gap is more for comfort. Many people can't stand the pressure on their ears for long.
14:51 <@critch> You can get earphones for your helmet as well. I have them in mine as part of my CB setup.
14:52 <@Dagmar> Yeah, but so far all I see are ones that are insanely overpriced
14:52 <@Dagmar> ANyway the literature on teh CL-15 says explicitly the gaps are for earpieces
14:54 <@critch> For just listening to music, get the CL15 or really any helmet, and a set of over the ear wired earphones. The ones that go over your ears allow you to tug on the cord to reseat them in your ear if they jostel loose.
14:55 <@critch> I have a set I spent maybe $10 on, and did well till I upgraded.
14:56 <@Dagmar> I'm just going to get a headset that's small and mount it permanently in the thing
14:57 <@Dagmar> I just need the things very close to my ears, but not in them
14:57 <@critch> not that you will plan on riding in the rain, it happens, watch the permanent mount options in case they go bad with rain. Maybe look at mounting with velcrow for swap outs.
14:58 <@Dagmar> Oh dude of course
14:58 <@critch> okay.
14:58 <@Dagmar> If I fuck up another helmet I don't want to have to throw out the electronics
14:58 <@Catonic> hey
14:58 <@Catonic> what's a free PDF reader for windows?
14:58 <+MaxieZ> Adobe reader
14:58 <@critch> okay, I was thinking of less drastic problems for the swap of components.
14:59 <@critch> Acrobat Reader
14:59 <@Catonic> MaxieZ: one that sucks less
14:59 <@I-MOD> use linux?
14:59 <+MaxieZ> cygwin with xpdf?
14:59 <@Dagmar> At the moment I'm looking around for multimedia headsets that can pair to more than one device at a time
14:59 <@Catonic> I prefer preview on Mac OSX
14:59 <@I-MOD> or evince
14:59 <+MaxieZ> evince is good, but hard to get running in cygwin
14:59 <@I-MOD> never tried
14:59 <@Catonic> less complexity > more complexity
15:00 <@Dagmar> They're not likely to be very cheap, but they'll easily be less than the $150-180 I'm seeing
15:01 <@critch> I tend to like wired better, the cable isn't too much of a pain, and the not caring about battery charge is great.
15:04 <@critch> I haven't seen anyone in the club go wireless, but that isn't saying much.
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15:07 <@Dagmar> Ahh... jackpot
15:07 <@Dagmar> http://www.thehelmetcenter.com/HJC-p-1-c-1407.html
15:16 < Evilpig> this one is totally you Dagmar http://www.thehelmetcenter.com/HJC-AC-12-AC-12-Carbon-CL-15-CL-SP-Ninja-ZX-Faceshield-Mirror-Pink-p-18037.html
15:17 <@Dagmar> Nope
15:18 <@Dagmar> I can't find the kind of bike gloves I need tho
15:18 <@Dagmar> Something with metal prongs like a meat tenderizer over the knuckles
15:20 < nated0g_wrk> so you need to go to a 80's skate shop to find those
15:20 < nated0g_wrk> fingerless?
15:25 <@Dagmar> Fingerless would be good but it's not a dealbreaker
15:25 <@oddball> Damnit! I have a friend that logs onto AIM just long enough to send me a message, and then logs off.  He's done this 5 times today.
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15:31 <@Dagmar> Wtf are these "tear-off posts" for
15:33 <@Dagmar> Ah now I see
15:35 <@someninja[HC]> everyone got their rooms for phreaknic
15:35 <+MaxieZ> Rooms?  I'm sleeping in a van by the river
15:35 -!- GodFix[HC] [n=godfix@75.149.100.253] has joined #se2600
15:36 <@someninja[HC]> if you havent gotten one you might be
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15:51 <@Shadow404> ladymerlin: ping
15:55 <@Shadow404> MaxieZ: you to? i got the old station wagon for scotchick and i
15:55 <@Shadow404> real 5 star accomadation
15:56 <@Shadow404> oddball: :)
15:58 <@oddball> fuck you, Shadow404
15:58 <@Shadow404> lawl
15:58 <@Shadow404> hehe
15:59 <@oddball> You're bored, aren't you?
16:00 < nated0g_wrk> so KJ4GZB is official callsign for me
16:05 -!- droops [n=erickson@74.193.240.17] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:09 < nated0g_wrk> i dont know if i just commited dorkery or not
16:10 <@Corydon76-lap> So you're the Gay Zebra Bastard!
16:11 < nated0g_wrk> i dont know about all that
16:11 < nated0g_wrk> or any of that
16:11 < nated0g_wrk> but i did set up my email account with my callsign
16:13 <@oddball> Do they just hand out random callsigns?
16:13 < nated0g_wrk> its done in order
16:13 <@oddball> ah, ok
16:13 <@nachoguy> Oddball, if they're doing AIM from their cell phone, that would explain it
16:19 <@oddball> Then I might start txting his ass... especially since he chose not to get a contract that includes any free txt messages.
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16:32 < m0j0j0j0> bok
16:33 <@coil> bok bok bok
16:33 <@coil> bork bork bork*
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16:36 < m0j0j0j0> irc for my iPaq
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16:55 <@sdodson> m0j0j0j0: Heyyyyy sorry i missed your calls
17:00 < nated0g_wrk> welp time for home
17:05 < GodFix[HC]> what's an easy to setup and maintain blog package?
17:05 -!- unixfag [n=ryan@pdpc/supporter/professional/unixfag] has quit ["Leaving."]
17:08 <+MaxieZ> wordpress
17:08 <+MaxieZ> Though it's as secure as....a blog site
17:10 < GodFix[HC]> I tried using movabletype once but it wasn't working well with the server
17:16 -!- droops [n=erickson@74.193.240.17] has joined #se2600
17:16 < m0j0j0j0> sdodson: no worries
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17:16 < m0j0j0j0> sdodsen: wanted to show you the space
17:18 < m0j0j0j0> "its full of stars
17:27 <@coil> why isn't aircrack getting any arp's
17:27 < Evilpig> the latest version of movable type is fuckin' nice
17:28 < Evilpig> so much faster than before.  
17:28 < Evilpig> what server were you using that it didn't like?  that might help people narrow down suggestions
17:29 <@coil> sdodson, i dont like selinux, i had to init 2 to bypass it to get kismet and aircrack and stuff to work
17:30 <@brimstone> lurn2selinux
17:30 < Evilpig> I know how to selinux.  selinux=disabled
17:30 <@coil> yeah
17:30 <@coil> even disabling it
17:30 <@coil> didn't work
17:30 <@coil> kismet still wouldn't work properly
17:31 < Evilpig> SELINUX=disabled
17:31 <@coil> it's almost been a day and it still hasn't cracked this wep
17:31 <@coil> not getting any weak ivs
17:32 <@brimstone> don't use centos?
17:32 <@coil> it's fedora9
17:32 <@brimstone> s/centos/fedora/
17:32 <@coil> i think theres just no wireless clients on this network
17:33 <@coil> or they're not home on vacation or something
17:33 < Evilpig> I use fedora 9 with selinux disabled just fine
17:33 <@brimstone> there's some trick to get the arp of wired clients too
17:33 < Evilpig> http://blueboy.wilpig.org/phpsysinfo/  <-- see
17:33 <@coil> Evilpig, where do i put that
17:33 <@coil> what fil
17:33 <@coil> e
17:33 < Evilpig>  /etc/selinux/config
17:33 <@coil> ahh
17:34 <@coil> that laptop is at my apartment
17:35 <@coil> since the neighbors that i was using their wireless for a year now moved out
17:35 < Evilpig> how dare they move and take your internet with them
17:36 <@coil> yeah i know!
17:36 < Evilpig> you should write an angry letter to the editor
17:36 <@coil> i finally figured out who's i was using
17:37 <@coil> now i get why my laptop had the best signal only in my room
17:38 -!- nated0g_AG is now known as nated0g
17:40 < Evilpig> I need to edit the irclogs alias list again
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17:41 <@coil> yea
17:41 <@coil> link?
17:41 < Evilpig> it isn't linked anywhere.  I might make it available at phreaknic though
17:41 < Evilpig> it really is long as shit
17:41 <@coil> well, what about the irc stats
17:42 < Evilpig> those are online.  se2600.org/ircstats
17:42 <@coil> 	brimstone	15218	779397856144847	today	"with my luck, that'll be my quote"
17:42 <@coil> lol, so close brim
17:43 <@sdodson> selinux is the one true way
17:44 <@coil> sdodson, its kinda hard to rtfm about it when it trys to link you to a web site
17:44 <@coil> and you dont have internet...
17:45 <@coil> that's all im sayin
17:45 <@sdodson> Are you running a desktop?
17:45 <@sdodson> If you're in a desktop it'll pop up and tell you what was denied and how to fix it if you really want to
17:46 <@coil> well see
17:46 <@coil> i disabled that and it would still deny stuff, so i went to cli only
17:47 <@brimstone> lol
17:47 <@brimstone> haha, that's pretty funny
17:47 <@brimstone> i <3 pisg
17:48 <@sdodson> whats pisg?
17:48 <@coil> perl irc staas gen
17:48 < Evilpig> pisg is neat
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17:49 <@sdodson> whar be thar stats?
17:50 <@brimstone> omg sdodson, keep up
17:50 <@brimstone> http://se2600.org/ircstats/
17:50 <@coil> lrn2irdc
17:51 <@sdodson> irdc?
17:51 <@brimstone> internet relay distributed chat
17:51 <@brimstone> geebus
17:51 <@brimstone> it's like you're living in north carolina or something
17:51 <@sdodson> brimstone: no love phneak?
17:52 <@sdodson> OMG WITH BRIMSTONES LUCK THATLL BE HIS QUITED!
17:52 <@sdodson> QOUTE
17:58 <@sdodson> two year old broccoli rice cheese packets prepared in the reduced fat manner sucks.
17:58 <@coil> breakfast of champions
18:08 <@sdodson> coil: Hey, I had a salad consisting mostly of baconbits and cheese too!
18:09 <@brimstone> i love breakfast
18:10 <@brimstone> it's like "we're sorry you had to wake up, have some food"
18:10 <@sdodson> bagels and cream cheese?
18:11 <@brimstone> bagles and dark chocolate icing :D
18:16 <@sdodson> WTF ?
--- Log opened Mon Oct 06 18:24:42 2008
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18:26 <@sdodson> http://dontclickthis.whatingods.name/asp-rnd.png
18:28 <@brimstone> http://www.experts-exchange.com/Web_Development/Miscellaneous/Q_22031739.html
18:28 <@polerin> bah. fuck E-E.  not going to pay you for someone elses experience :P
18:28 <@brimstone> E-E?
18:29 <@brimstone> Wall-E?
18:29 <@polerin> experts exchange
18:29 <@brimstone> expert sex change?
18:30 <@Evilpig> http://se2600.org/ircstats/pisg.cfg
18:30 <@Evilpig> there you go
18:31 <@Evilpig> the config file magic that does the se2600 stats
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18:32 <@polerin> brimstone: heh, to be honest I'd leave that to the experts
18:32 <@polerin> that's not something you want a n00b learning on your body :P
18:32 < GodFix[HC]> wtf? maybe nsfw? http://fukung.net/v/5444/doing-her-homework-1.gif
18:32 <@brimstone> polerin: i've got to listen to you, you've got the experience
18:32 <@polerin> brimstone: ;p
18:33 <@polerin> SRS can go horribly horribly wrong.. so .. yeah.. newbs stay away :P
18:34 <@sdodson> SRS?
18:34 -!- ShadowHntr [n=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr] has quit [Connection timed out]
18:34 <@sdodson> Don't be one of those assholes who uses niche language.
18:34 <@brimstone> srsly, they aren't cool
18:35 <@polerin> SRS aka GRS, Sex reassignment surgery
18:35 <@polerin> G == gender
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18:35 <@sdodson> There's this airplane dude that's always like that. He'll slip in something like "throttle lever attitude" when talking about driving honda civics or something wtf?
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18:35 <@polerin> I use S as it refers to the physical expression of sex
18:35 <@sdodson> of course it's ADJ your TLA for more JAD KTHNXBAISTFUISUXDICX
18:36 <@brimstone> i <3 TLAs
18:37 <@Drag0n> thats ok, the TLA's love watching you
18:37 <@sdodson> Makes me want to kill kill kill
18:37 <@sdodson> 7
18:37 <@brimstone> 7 8 9
18:37 <@brimstone> hehe
18:37 <@polerin> Drag0n: is rhia about?
18:38 <@Drag0n> yeah, out with a cig, give her a min
18:38 <@polerin> okies :)
18:38 <@sdodson> those are bad for you!
18:38 <@Drag0n> tell her, not me, i dont smoke em
18:38 <@sdodson> hooray!
18:38 <@brimstone> i read "cig" i think "mig" then i think surface to air missle
18:39 <@brimstone> i wonder what childhood experence caused that link
18:39 <@sdodson> Got a charlie on your six!
18:39 <@sdodson> guess it'd be bogie
18:39 <@polerin> mig's are bad for you too
18:39 <@polerin> Drag0n: I just wanted to show her a picture
18:40 <@polerin> I think it's the first better than average shot I've ever taken
18:40 <@Drag0n> well, if its the clinton reference, then, i dont want that cigerette
18:40 <@polerin> even though some technical issues make it not quite as good as I would like
18:40  * brimstone is still thinking about surface to air missles...
18:40 <@Drag0n> here she comes back in
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19:49 < aestetix_> DUDE
19:49 < aestetix_> Artificial foreskins ftw!
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19:53 < booker404> wtf?
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20:07 <@mtown_nerd> hmmmm
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20:08 <@mtown_nerd> Anyone have any suggested reading material, or specific suggestions, for Windows-compat. corporate-level encryption solutions for encrypting laptop/desktop/USB drives?
20:08 < booker404> anybody just happen to work in USG IT?
20:09 <@brimstone> mtown_nerd: like truecrypt or window's efs?
20:09 <@Drag0n> trucrypt does that, but if they insist on paying, the pgp
20:10 <@Drag0n> then
20:10 <@brimstone> no, "the pgp" is appropiate
20:10 <@Drag0n> hehe
20:10 <@Drag0n> prety gimped protection?
20:11 <@mtown_nerd> Yeah, like TrueCrypt, except some level of central administration/logging is a must, Vista compliance (for the sake of knowing the product is modern more than any actual plan to use Vista), reversibility in case there's a problem and we have to access the disk ....    some of the stipulations the boss put down
20:12 <@brimstone> erm... 2 of those requirements will fail any good encryption software
20:13 < jb70d> "i can't save your files and it's all your fault"
20:13 <@Drag0n> http://www.networkcomputing.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=193500189
20:13 <@Drag0n> not true, admin override master key will still protect data
20:14 <@Drag0n> as long as the admin is trustworthie, but if he's not, you have a whole other issue
20:15 < jb70d> lol
20:15 < jb70d> That's who i mean- there are rouges.
20:15 < jb70d> unsupported ones
20:15 <@brimstone> not like admins don't already pick and choose who they're gonna help
20:17 <@Drag0n> well, thats a whole different issue
20:17 <@brimstone> my boss said we were allowed to take bribes
20:17 <@brimstone> my bribe is politeness
20:20 <@mtown_nerd> hmmm
20:20 <@mtown_nerd> thanks, Drag0n :)
20:23 <@Drag0n> np
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20:40 < jb70d> the guy i was thinking of, i can't remember what he used but it's been a couple years and i was looking for the seed file- dude was a patent lawyer and he goes "isn't it on the drive?" i was like "there's the problem"
20:45 <@Drag0n> thats when you say, "Theres a reason i dont practice law, and its the same reason you dont do IT!"
20:45 <@sdodson> My mom is a better seller's agent for homes she's never seen than anyone I know.
20:45 <@sdodson> "Well you really could afford to go up another $100/month in mortgage payments and then you could get ..."
20:45 < jb70d> oh he's a fuck up on the computer
20:45 < jb70d> big time
20:45 < jb70d> and when you drive a car like him, it's a non issue
20:46 -!- jb70d is now known as jb7od
20:46 <@sdodson> mtown_nerd: Isn't key escrowing provided by normal vista ecryption?
20:47 < jb7od> he's all about that bios password too- but that's negotiable..
20:47 <@sdodson> Imean this sounds like basic Active Directory shizzle.
20:47 < ware> whos going to the debate?
20:48 <@mtown_nerd> sdodson: You mean in BitLocker?  I think so...but we don't use Vista in the enterprise yet, and it would require either TPM's in the machines (whcih I don't know if we have in our current models) OR the use of USB keys to boot up on, which our uers (mostly Dr.'s) would most likely lose.
20:48 <@sdodson> ware: Obama and McCain?
20:48 <@mtown_nerd> I have been curious just how much you can work with using EFS and AD, though
20:48 <@sdodson> mtown_nerd: That stuff has been available in XP for a long time afaik.
20:48 < ware> obama ur momma
20:49 <@mtown_nerd> EFS is there, but I don't know if it fits what he wants in terms of easy, central administration, logging, etc.
20:49 <@mtown_nerd> I don't know enough about actually using EFS in an AD enterprise, to be honest
20:49 <@mtown_nerd> None of them I've ever worked for has ever used it.
20:49 <@mtown_nerd> :/
20:51 <@mtown_nerd> I personally think the use of USB keys to boot the laptops is cool where PHI is involved; the concern there is what happens when (not If) they lose it, will whatever solution we're using give us some method for easily creating a new key (at their cost, of course) that will immediately work.
20:54 <@mtown_nerd> anyway...this article was pretty informative.  :)
20:54 <@mtown_nerd> Gave me at least one product to investigate further. ^_^
20:54 < eryc> its miley!
20:55 <@Dagmar> If you're talking about the Windows encrypted filesystem support, it's broken
20:56 <@Dagmar> The system protects the filesystem against the clueless, and that's it.
20:56 <@mtown_nerd> lol
20:56 < eryc> all praise allah!!
20:56 <@Dagmar> The method used to encrypt is fine.
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20:56 <@Dagmar> THe way it protects the key is broken.
20:57 <@mtown_nerd> heh
20:57 <@sdodson> Do gas logs actually provide any significant amount of heat?
20:57 <@unixfag> mostly radiant, after they heat up
20:57 <@unixfag> the flame isn't terribly useful itself
20:57 <@mtown_nerd> sdodson: In my experience, yes.  Just make sure that it's all plumped properly.  That'll screw you over big time.  >_<
20:58 < eryc> corn plumped
20:58 <@mtown_nerd> lol
20:58 <@mtown_nerd> oops
20:58 <@mtown_nerd> plumbed
20:59 < eryc> plumed?
20:59 < vyrus001> http://www.doubleviking.com/videos/page0.html/rachel-ray-s-corn-porn-10332.html
20:59 <@Evilpig> some gas logs are just for show, like mine
21:02 < eryc> corn pumped ftw
21:03 < eryc> that vid is ripe for editing
21:05 <@mtown_nerd> It's not laoding for me. :[
21:05 <@sdodson> me either, what a let down
21:06 <@sdodson> I love me some Rachel Ray, who doesn't want woman with 10ft long arms?
21:07 <@mtown_nerd> rofl
21:07 <@mtown_nerd> It finally loaded
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21:07 <@mtown_nerd> that's awesome
21:07 < jb7od> that thing is rad. lol....
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21:07 <@sdodson> funny
21:09 < m0j0j0j0> sup?
21:09 < jb7od> i'm addicted to virtual server console
21:10 < booker404> ?
21:11 < m0j0j0j0> sdodson: the name is pitch media gallery
21:12 <@sdodson> I bet Miller Chill sucks, but this lemon flavored chapstick they gave out to advertise it rocks.
21:12 < jb7od> bahahaha
21:12 < m0j0j0j0> chapsticl< junkie
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21:57 < eryc> anyone watch the zeitgeist movie?
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22:19 <@Evilpig> anyone know what it means in spore when a planet has a pulsing red circle around it and whenver you get near it the entire screen starts rumbling and shaking?
22:20 <@Dagmar> *just* a planey or a whole system?
22:20 <@Dagmar> er planet
22:20 <@Evilpig> seems like that little system
22:20 <@Dagmar> A whole system means it's occupied by someone that's about to jack you
22:20 <@Dagmar> Just like alliance systems have a red field around them
22:21 <@Dagmar> If you're not being attacked, it's probablt because you're close to the aggro point
22:21 <@Evilpig> ahh I don't even have a colony on that planet.  I just took it over for those asshole ducks
22:22 <@Dagmar> So obviously those people have _another_ planet in that system and they're *very* pissed at you now
22:22 < eryc> zeitgeist movie?
22:23 <@Evilpig> hrmm.  guess I shoudl go back to my system of blowing up planets then hehe
22:23 <@Evilpig> ahh I found what it is.  the terrascore of this planet is dropping.  that is why it is all pissed off and shaking
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22:26 <@mtown_nerd> hrmm....   why is it that every time my boss talks about using MS ForeFront for our client-side all-in-one security solution, I get all bleary eyed and nauseated?  >_>
22:26 < ware> http://mafiaboybook.com/
22:26 < eryc> zeitgeist movie?
22:27 <@Drag0n> if you cant ever work in the industry, write a book about your crimes
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22:30 < eryc> none of you asshats have seen this movie?
22:30  * mtown_nerd has not, and is not an asshat.
22:30 <@mtown_nerd> :D
22:31 < eryc> its on google video
22:31 < ware> eryc: no ur a asshat
22:31 < eryc> make some popcorn
22:31 < ware> f u. u no i cant dont papcr0n
22:32 < ware> hey had four children: Moon Unit, Dweezil, Ahmet Emuukha Rodan and Diva Thin Muffin Pigeen.
22:34 -!- juice [n=juice@CPE-65-28-103-54.kc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:36 <@mtown_nerd> lol ware...?
22:36 <@mtown_nerd> What ARE you talking about?
22:36 <@mtown_nerd> Diva Thin Muffin Pigeen is the greatest name for a child I've ever heard
22:36 <@mtown_nerd> And it's something that someone here in Memphis would honest-to-God name 'dey chi'ren
22:37 < ware> frank zappas  kids
22:37 < ware> not sure how i ended up on them, but it happens when you browse wikipedia
22:37 < ware> sleep time
22:38 <@mtown_nerd> time for sleep!
22:38 <@mtown_nerd> zZZZzzzzz
22:38 <@unixfag> lol, sleep?
22:38 <@mtown_nerd> I USE AOL CUZ THATS WHAT ALL THE LEET HAXORS USE AND MY MOM PAYRS FOR IT
22:38 <@mtown_nerd> lol
22:38 <@mtown_nerd> No
22:39 <@mtown_nerd> I just woke up and realized i'm a huge fatty, remember?  :P   I was quoting the old "HAX0RSTRIKE" flash.
22:39 <@Evilpig> no matter what I do this stupid planet is still getting colder
22:40 <@mtown_nerd> yay!
22:40 <@mtown_nerd> <3 cold
22:40 <@Drag0n> only 6 months out of the year, the other 6 it gets warmer
22:42 <@dasunt> Lets burn the motherfucker down.
22:42 <@Feltenix> am I the only one here that has been tracking sunspot activity?
22:42 <@Feltenix> or the lack thereof?
22:43 <@Dagmar> Probably
22:43 <@Dagmar> The sun's various moods aren't something I can really do anyuthing about, so I don't worry about them much.
22:43 <@Dagmar> I just try to limit my exposure on general principle
22:43 <@Feltenix> oh, well sunspots are a measure of solar activity, and lack of them could mean the sun is cooling
22:43 <@Drag0n> nope, i dont mark on my calender every time the isnt a sunspot, got a lot of empty space on that calender
22:44 <@Feltenix> http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/sunspots/ that is the 3rd sunspeck in as many weeks
22:44 <@Feltenix> august, I beleive, had no sunspots
22:44 <@Feltenix> believe
22:44  * Feltenix thinks it will be getting cold
22:44 <@Feltenix> for quite some time
22:45 <@Feltenix> unless the sunspots come back, of course
22:45 <@dasunt> Feltenix: I've already skipped ahead and started following the Sun God's order to ritually murder virgins and bury their body parts around town.
22:45 <@Feltenix> bury them in small pits of lye
22:45 <@Feltenix> it is all about the surface are
22:45 <@Feltenix> area
22:46 <@Drag0n> where you going to find a virgin in todays day and age?
22:46 <@Dagmar> Kindergarten
22:46 <@Feltenix> phreaknic?
22:46 <@Dagmar> Mostly
22:46 <+MxZBot> phreaknic is an annual convention held in Nashville, TN. Originally started as a "hacker convention," it has since grown to include all things of interest to the technology minded individual, such as sci-fi/fantasy, gaming, anime and other areas of tech culture. PhreakNIC is organized by the Nashville 2600 Organization and the Nashville Linux Users Group.
22:46 <@Feltenix> couldn't resist
22:46 <@Evilpig> weird.  I added land mass and it stopped
22:46 <@Dagmar> Feltenix: You realize of course that for a lack of subspots to mean a damn thing it would have to be a period considerably longer than a month, right?
22:47 <@Feltenix> yes
22:47 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: Might be that the place was unstable
22:47 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: T0 planets are dodgy to get near to begin with
22:47 <@Feltenix> have you heard of the maunder minimum?
22:47 <@Evilpig> it was a t2 when I took it over I think
22:47 <@Dagmar> Hmmm
22:48 <@Dagmar> Was it maybe lapsing back?
22:48 <@Evilpig> possibly
22:48 <@Evilpig> seems better now
22:48 <@Dagmar> I don't know if you've seen it or not, but suns can actually *change*
22:48 <@Feltenix> are you talking about spore now?
22:48 <@Dagmar> You'll see the angry face if they're getting hotter, or smiles if they're moving towards yellow
22:48 <@Dagmar> I thought it was a bug at first
22:49  * Feltenix wanted to make asmetric horrors, but no
22:49 <@Feltenix> asymmetric
22:49 <@Evilpig> well that didn't stop the giant red shaking circle.  hrmm
22:49 <@Dagmar> You'll sse places where you could *swear* the terraforming line was blue or orange the day before and suddenly it's green, and it's because the sun in that system shifted
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22:49 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: So ther'es no one in that system but you and it's *still* got a red perimeter around the system?
22:50 <@Evilpig> yeah
22:50 <@Evilpig> the line behind the planet is blue too
22:50 <@Dagmar> Fucking weird
22:51 <@Dagmar> The only time there should be a perimeter around the system (in galaxy view) is when it's _occupied_
22:51 <@Dagmar> Lord knows I depopulated enough Grox-space
22:52 <@Dagmar> I decided I didn't want to streak the *whole* way to the core so at several points I just took over a system, and then destroyed all groz settlements for two systems around.
22:52 <@Dagmar> It makes things nice and quiet.
22:53 <@Evilpig> http://wilpig.org/temp/spore.jpg
22:53 <@Evilpig> I just blew up another planet and pissed off the last of my allies.  heh
22:53 <@Dagmar> THat's galkaxy view
22:53 <@Evilpig> but that didn't stop the shaking either
22:53 <@Dagmar> You're in enemy territory
22:54 <@Evilpig> my system.  killed all the enemies
22:54 <@Dagmar> They *can* overlap  bit
22:54 <@Evilpig> and it's shaking
22:55 <@Dagmar> 1 sec
22:56 <@Dagmar> OKay, now that I have *both* hands free
22:56 <@Dagmar> Notice that sphere of influencce appears to go out from the system by a fixed amount.
22:56 <@Dagmar> ...that's because it *is* a fixed amount.
22:56 <@Dagmar> One of the other systems that's within that area is still enemy-controlled, but since you're not in *their* system they won't attack.
22:57 <@Dagmar> If you go into their system tho, going back to there won't be out of their sphere, so they'll still follow you
22:57 <@Dagmar> I'd go fuck 'em all up
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22:57 <@Dagmar> Yes, it's annoyingly hard to see in galaxy view without doing a lot of zooming way in and out
22:58 <@Dagmar> My next round of that I'm just going to fuck ANYONE up who demands tribute
22:58 <@Catonic_lp> Dagmar: pay me a tribute.
22:58 <@Dagmar> ./k catonic_lp
22:58 <@Dagmar> It's really annoying in that game
22:59 <@Dagmar> Some of the other civilzations will demand tribute, and if you don't pay it, they'll downrank your faction with them
22:59 <@Dagmar> ...which means eventually they'll be at war with you and all touchin' your stuff unless you regulate on them and beat them into submission
23:03 <@sdodson> Details on .NET framework 4.0! Yay I didn't even know there was a 3.0!
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23:05 <@Evilpig> yeah fuck this being nice shit.  I have one ally.  time to kill the rest of these douches
23:05 -!- Evilpig was kicked from #se2600 by sdodson [kill kill kill]
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--- Log opened Mon Oct 06 23:05:32 2008
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23:05 -!- Irssi: #se2600: Total of 71 nicks [45 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 24 normal]
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23:06 <@coil> sdodson,
23:06 <@coil> how do i
23:06 <@sdodson> coil: form complete thoughts?
23:06 <@coil> nou
23:09 < eryc> new minefield is better than chrome
23:09 < eryc> chrome is a pile of dogshit
23:09 -!- Cinotac [n=cinotac@60-24.9-67.bham.res.rr.com] has joined #se2600
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23:10 <@coil> same'
23:12  * jb7od is listening to [Boards of Canada - Happy Cycling [*]] at 3:13/7:51 (44 kHz, 752 kbps, stereo)
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23:18 <@hobbes615> whats goin on
23:19 < wrench[HC]> whatup hobbes615. Hows things up north?
23:20 <@hobbes615> yo
23:20 <@hobbes615> things are going good
23:20 <@hobbes615> whats up with you
23:20 < wrench[HC]> right on
23:20 < wrench[HC]> Back in school + working
23:20 <@hobbes615> cool
23:20 < wrench[HC]> yup yup
23:20 <@dasunt> hobbes615: Where are you up north?
23:20 <@hobbes615> washington dc
23:20 <@dasunt> WTF?  North?
23:21  * dasunt slaps wrench[HC].
23:21 < wrench[HC]> ??
23:21 < wrench[HC]> DC is north of my location...double checking...yup its north
23:22  * dasunt humphs.
23:22 <@dasunt> DC is south of me.
23:22 < wrench[HC]> oh...gotcha
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23:24 <@hobbes615> you workin at belmont still
23:25 < wrench[HC]> nah...I graduated last May and took this job near the airport that provides online learning management solutions.
23:25 <@hobbes615> ah cool
23:25 <@hobbes615> so what are you back in school for
23:26 < wrench[HC]> Now I'm commuting to MTSU to get a MS in Comp. Sci.
23:26 <@hobbes615> crazy
23:26 <@hobbes615> nice
23:26 < wrench[HC]> no doubt. Are you still at the same job in DC?
23:27 <@hobbes615> yup
23:27 < wrench[HC]> cool man. you still like it?
23:27 <@hobbes615> yea its fun
23:27 < wrench[HC]> that's awesome!
23:27 <@hobbes615> i met donald rumsfeld tonight
23:28 < wrench[HC]> for real?! Damn, did you say anything?
23:28 <@hobbes615> just shake hand n say hey
23:28 < wrench[HC]> that's crazy
23:28 < wrench[HC]> did you meet him through work or a chance encounter?
23:29 <@hobbes615> work
23:29 < wrench[HC]> good deal man.
23:33 <@hobbes615> i work with clarence thomas's wife, and she is changing jobs, so we had a fairly small party for her leaving
23:34 <@Dagmar> No one really likes her, eh?
23:34 <@Dagmar> j/k
23:35 <@hobbes615> heh
23:35 <@hobbes615> lynn cheney was there too!
23:36 <@Catonic_lp> is lynn hot?
23:37 <@hobbes615> newp
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23:41 < eryc> hobbes615: how long are you in DC for?
23:42 <@hobbes615> ehh i dunno, till i decide to come back to nashville. i might try to go back to school up here though
23:42 < eryc> cool
23:42 < eryc> timball, rattle, and i live around dc
23:42 < eryc> tho i am far away from anyone
23:43 <@hobbes615> ah nice, i knew rattle was around, but never met up with anyone yet
23:43 <@hobbes615> are you in VA?
23:43 < eryc> yep
23:43 < eryc> dulles
23:44 <@hobbes615> ah ok
23:45 < eryc> how about you where are you stayin?
23:45 <@hobbes615> im on the hill
23:46 -!- vyrus001 [n=vyrus@ip65-46-14-94.z14-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #se2600
23:46 <@hobbes615> little under a mile east of the capitol
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23:46 <@Catonic_lp> speakin of DC
23:46 <@Catonic_lp> hey Neoteric, did you hear about the lehman bros ceo?
23:46 <@Catonic_lp> http://www.thehotjoints.com/2008/10/06/lehman-brothers-ceo-attacked-at-gym-knocked-out-cold/
23:48 <@sdodson> Catonic_lp: oh nos, that's mean
23:48 < eryc> and awesome
23:48 <@Catonic_lp> "You just got knocked da FUCK OUT!"
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 07 00:00:38 2008