--- Log opened Thu Sep 18 00:00:13 2008
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00:47  * Catonic wants to dent something.
00:57 <@sdodson> Catonic: Roid rage already?
00:58 <@Catonic> no, but I wish the gym were open
00:59 <@Catonic> oh, FC is a flaming piece of shit
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01:47 <@Dagmar> PFft.
01:47 <@Dagmar> PTR is down.
02:33 <@Catonic> fun
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06:34 <@timoguin> Man, it's been a while since I've used Gentoo.
06:34 <@timoguin> I'd almost forgotten how much I loved Portage.
06:47 <@GodFix> ok, just reserved my room and signed up for PN
06:58 < Shadow404> timoguin: your zone file work now?
06:59 < Shadow404> Catonic: diaf
06:59 < Shadow404> er, i meant coil: diaf
06:59 <@timoguin> Shadow404: huh?
07:00 <@timoguin> Since back when I was having trouble with mail?
07:00 < Shadow404> remember you were having problems with your dns
07:00 <@timoguin> I got it fixed that day.
07:00 < Shadow404> ah cool, did you end up just using cnames?
07:00 <@timoguin> I still haven't set up DNS here though, which I want to do.
07:01 <@timoguin> Shadow404: No, I just set static A records.
07:01 <@timoguin> And hopefully my IP doesn't change.
07:01 < Shadow404> ah, suxor
07:01 < Shadow404> just use the dyndns updater
07:01 < Shadow404> thats what i do
07:02 <@timoguin> Meaning use a dyndns domain?
07:02 <@timoguin> like timoguin.mine.nu?
07:02 < Shadow404> hmm..,
07:03 <@timoguin> That was the whole problem before.  I was trying to point timoguin.com to timoguin.mine.nu.
07:03 < Shadow404> simple
07:03 <@timoguin> Yea, but not really.
07:03 < Shadow404> goto zone file for timoguin.com point <null> and www to " IN CNAME timoguin.mine.au
07:04 < Shadow404> er, dont forget te period at the end
07:04  * timoguin shrugs
07:04 <@timoguin> I like it better this way.
07:04 < Shadow404> more points of failure
07:04 <@timoguin> My IP hasn't change since I got my cable installed.
07:04 <@timoguin> *changed
07:05 < Shadow404> yeah, i had this IP for about 30 days
07:05 <@timoguin> And I want to setup my own DNS anyway, and that's the best solution.
07:05 < Shadow404> i noticed comcast renews every 30 days usually
07:05 < Shadow404> bellsouth was like 4 days
07:05 <@timoguin> Well I had a static IP with bellsouth.
07:05 < Shadow404> ah
07:05 <@timoguin> I'm on Charter now.
07:06 <@timoguin> Don't know how often it changes.
07:06 < Shadow404> well, i just looked at the parents modem logs, looks like every 5.5 days
07:06 < Shadow404> for ma bell
07:06 <@timoguin> It'll probably be when I'm off somewhere and try to login remotely.
07:06 < Shadow404> of course
07:06 < Shadow404> thats wehy i use logmein, its free and it reports back to the server every 3 mins
07:07 <@timoguin> My own DNS with a low ttl and all is gravy.
07:07 < Shadow404> plus its all organized and session encrypted to 128 for free or up to 256 for pay
07:07 <@timoguin> Shit.
07:08 <@timoguin> I haven't configured a kernel from scratch in a long time.
07:08 < Shadow404> low ttl helps, but it still has to propogate globally
07:08 < Shadow404> brb, coffee
07:08 <@timoguin> Yea.
07:08  * timoguin shrugs
07:08 <@timoguin> I could use some coffee.
07:17 < Shadow404> dammit, im gonna kill this client
07:17 < Shadow404> keeps calling me asking for update when i said call his sales team as im not in charge of his account till hes provisioned
07:18 <@timoguin> Sounds intense.
07:18 <@timoguin> Do you have to be at work at 8:00AM?
07:18 < Shadow404> when he calls every hour it gets annoying
07:18 < Shadow404> timoguin: yeah, but i started early today
07:18 <@timoguin> Word.
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07:18 < Shadow404> gotta install to gbics and test clean up to the meet me room
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07:18 < Shadow404> *two gbics
07:19 <@timoguin> I overslept for something today that was at 10:00am.
07:19 <@timoguin> And I was sad.
07:19 <@brimstone> ... it's only 7am
07:19 <@timoguin> errr...
07:19 < Shadow404> and then get verizon to bring their side up, put in loops and test clean
07:19 < Shadow404> then tell the client to piss off and test their side
07:19 <@timoguin> brimstone: I've been up all night.
07:19 <@timoguin> So I guess yesterday.
07:19 <@brimstone> ah, gonna make it to this one on time eh?
07:20 <@timoguin> Well I don't have Wednesday classes, so that is weird.
07:20 <@timoguin> And some people started a thing on Wednesday at 10:00 where they show movies on campus.
07:20 <@timoguin> But good ones.
07:20 <@timoguin> And everyone can discuss them afterwards etc.
07:21 <@timoguin> Yesterday was the first one, starting off with Stranger Than Paradise.
07:21 <@timoguin> I've been really excited about it for the past 2 or 3 weeks.
07:22 <@timoguin> I don't know how I can have my alarm set to 8:00 and manage to unconciously his snooze until 11:00.
07:23 <@brimstone> i don't see how people manage to do that either
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07:23 <@brimstone> but it looks like there's a greater market for my flashbang alarm then previously thought
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07:24 <@timoguin> Well my best solution was having my computer at the other side of the room with an alarm set to blare a song.
07:24 <@brimstone> that's what i do now
07:24 <@timoguin> But then I rearranged my room and moved my computer out of my room.
07:24 <@brimstone> that's what i've done for a while actually
07:25 <@timoguin> I just use my cell phone alarm.
07:25 <@brimstone> waking up to music >>> simple alarm sound
07:25 <@timoguin> Of course if I actually went to bed I probably wouldn't have as much of a problem.
07:25 < Shadow404> flashbang alarm easy
07:25 <@timoguin> But I've always been deaf and a heavy sleeper.
07:26 < Shadow404> mechanical alarm clock, 9volt battery, fuse paper and flahbang charge
07:27 <@sdodson> thanks for that little bit of irrelevence 404
07:27 < Shadow404> sdodson: <@brimstone> but it looks like there's a greater market for my flashbang alarm then previously thought
07:27 <@timoguin> I've thought about getting Clocky.
07:27 < Shadow404> sdodson: fail
07:27 <@brimstone> yeah, keep up sdodson
07:27 <@timoguin> That alarm clock with wheels.
07:28 < Shadow404> timoguin: i want the one with the spinning gyro disc that launches into the air and the game is to wake up enough to catch it on its fall
07:28 <@timoguin> But I'd probably end up being able to find it and turn it off without even waking up.
07:28 <@timoguin> Shadow404: yea that one too.
07:28 < Shadow404> yeah, if there is an immediate goal, i wake up
07:28 < Shadow404> sorta like morning sex
07:29 <@timoguin> I'd rather sleep.
07:29 < Shadow404> fail timoguin
07:29 < Shadow404> i wuld to if i had a heather
07:29 <@sdodson> i find that just making my room as dark as possible and doing nothing in there but sleeping works well for sleeping problems
07:30 <@sdodson> ie: no pc, tv etc
07:30 <@timoguin> I don't have problems sleeping.
07:30 <@timoguin> Just have no discipline to actually go to sleep.
07:30 < Shadow404> sdodson: same, had issues sleepign when i had a computer with internet on it
07:30 < Shadow404> lots of late night pron, heh
07:31 < Shadow404> now, i just keep a vintage laptop in there to have ready when i think of additions to my story im writing
07:31 < Shadow404> typing makes me sleepy
07:31 < aestetix2> oh boy
07:31 < Shadow404> aestetix2: oh girl
07:32 < aestetix2> now I may be wrong
07:32 < Shadow404> but you may be right
07:32 < aestetix2> but when foreign banks give us money to bail us out of a crisis
07:32 < aestetix2> Doesn't that mean they own us?
07:32 < Shadow404> heh, and this is diffrent then before?
07:32 < Shadow404> look at china
07:32 < Shadow404> look at who we were in debt to before the stock market plummeted
07:32 < aestetix2> yup
07:32 < Shadow404> we've been in debt for as long as you and i have ben alive as a country
07:33 < aestetix2> I know this
07:33 < Shadow404> so whats new?
07:33 < aestetix2> But something tells me this crisis makes it a lot worse
07:33 < Shadow404> i dont think we know enough to decide that
07:33 < Shadow404> now if we had lived throught he 70's that would be diffrent
07:33 < Shadow404> but i just dont know
07:34 < aestetix2> I know. That's what's so scary.
07:34 < aestetix2> Have you been noticing prices of goods and commodities slowly rising?
07:34 < aestetix2> Pizza slices have gone up a dollar most places in NYC
07:34 < aestetix2> This week the diner near my house raised coffee prices 25 cents
07:35 < Shadow404> yep, sad, just plain sad
07:35 < Shadow404> this is gonna be the crappiest christmas season we've ever had in our lifetime market wise
07:35 < aestetix2> And that's just domestically.
07:35 < aestetix2> I don't even wanna think about international trade.
07:35 < aestetix2> What do we have to offer?
07:35 < Shadow404> well, cheap labor (mexicans)
07:36 < aestetix2> No we don't.
07:36 < Shadow404> soon, people will outsource to here
07:36 < aestetix2> If we had cheap labor, companies wouldn't be outsourcing everything.
07:36 < Shadow404> if the market keeps plummeting the role might reverse
07:37 < aestetix2> I'm glad I'm not working downtown anymore.
07:37 < aestetix2> All these companies that are collapsing
07:37 < aestetix2> They were our customers.
07:45 <@rattle> Oh, that's so funny.  Anonymous broked into Palin's yahoo.com email...
07:45 <@rattle> broke even.
07:45  * brimstone wonders if rattle's been online or near a tv in the last 14 hours
07:46 <@rattle> Nope.
07:46 <@brimstone> there wasn't any exploading van footage on the Faux News report last night
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07:51 < aestetix2> So uh
07:51 < aestetix2> Does anyone happen to have a copy of the stuff posted to wikileaks?
07:54 < aestetix2> http://cryptome.org/palin-email.zip
07:54 < aestetix2> woot
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08:43 <@timoguin> Wow.  It's been a long time since I've used KDE.
08:44 <@timoguin> And I'm impressed.
08:44 <@oddball> Yeah, it's pretty nice.
08:49 <@timoguin> I prefer Gnome's handling of the calendar to everything else I've seen.
08:49 <@timoguin> I love the way you can click and have a drop down with the whole month.
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08:49 <@oddball> both have their pluses
08:50 <@oddball> Gnome's insistance on opening a new window when I open a subfolder irritates me.
08:52 <@timoguin> Yea.
08:52 <@timoguin> I usually disable that.
08:57 <@timoguin> Okay...
08:57 <@timoguin> KDE crashed 6 times in the past 0 minutes.
08:57 <@timoguin> One's it's working I will be impressed.
08:58 <@ziplock> I just found Sarah Palin's linkedin account.  5 people have recommended her !!!!!!!!!!!
08:59 <@timoguin> Goddamnit.
08:59 <@timoguin> Plasma seems really nice.
08:59 <@timoguin> But no worken.
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09:12 <@I-MOD> timoguin, and how would you go about disabling that open a new window crap?
09:13 <@timoguin> I can't remember.
09:13 <@oddball> open file browser window -> edit -> pref -> behavior -> always open in browser window
09:13 <@oddball> isn't that so straight foward?
09:13  * oddball sometimes wishes to strangle folks that setup these kinds of menus
09:15 <@timoguin> Aw.  Fresh Gentoo install... Boot unsuccessful.
09:15 <@timoguin> I fail at software raid + lvm.
09:16 <@wontonjoe> morning
09:20 <@I-MOD> oddball, i saw that, but it said "browser", so i was wary
09:20 <@oddball> yeah
09:21 <@oddball> There are many people out there that have looked, and honestly think there is no way to disable it.
09:23 <@I-MOD> if they s/browser/current/, it would be much more clear
09:31 <@oddball> It's a wonderful example of my biggest complaint with FOSS.  Interface can be a complete bitch at times.
09:32 <@oddball> The folks that write the software tend to forget that not everyone wrote the software.
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09:35 <@Evilpig> best summary of a 23 page forum thread ever.  http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?forumId=11112&topicId=9879687891&postId=100421732875&op=3&sid=1
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09:58 <@timoguin> I'm so damn confused trying to get software raid and lvm working.
10:03 <+MaxieZ> timoguin: why's that?
10:04 <@timoguin> I've never done anything with software raid or lvm.
10:04 <@timoguin> I followed some gentoo guides.
10:04 <@timoguin> But it failed on boot.
10:05 <+MaxieZ> With what error?
10:05 <@timoguin> It scanned and didn't find any devices.
10:05 <@timoguin> Uh... md: 0 of 0 found or something
10:05 <+MaxieZ> Sounds like you need to mess with initrd
10:05 <+MaxieZ> Did it see the hard drives?
10:05 <@timoguin> and then the VFS couldn't initialize kernel.
10:06 <@timoguin> I think so.
10:06 <@timoguin> I'm currently back in the livecd waiting for one of the arrays to resync.
10:06 <@timoguin> Still wrapping my head around the concept of LVM.
10:08 <@timoguin> MaxieZ: any advice?
10:08 <@timoguin> I think I've done everything right.
10:08 <@timoguin> At least according to these few guides.
10:08 <@timoguin> Would mdadm.conf have anything to do with it?
10:08 <+MaxieZ> My advice is to make sure your initrd includes your drive controller
10:09 <+MaxieZ> timoguin: it could.  I usually build md into the kernel so it does it automatically
10:09 <@timoguin> What option is md in the kernel?
10:09 <@timoguin> I built in raid and lvm and all the options i thought i needed.
10:09 <@timoguin> May have missed one though.
10:10 <+MaxieZ> One sec
10:11 <+MaxieZ> It's MD
10:11 <+MaxieZ> and you need the raid for whatever type you have (0,1,5 etc)
10:11 <@timoguin> Under the multiple devices section?
10:12 <@timoguin> or whatever that section for raid and lvm is called...
10:13 <+MaxieZ> Looks like it's in the regular raid devices in 2.6.26.5
10:13 <@timoguin> I'll look for that option as soon as this array finishes syncing.
10:13 <@timoguin> If it wasn't enabled by default, I may not have enabled it.
10:14 <+MaxieZ> Yeah it's multiple devices
10:14 <@timoguin> oh.
10:15 <@timoguin> "Multiple devices driver support (RAID and LVM)"
10:15 <@timoguin> I definitely enabled that.
10:15 <+MaxieZ> Raid support, the mode you want, device mapper, and any other things
10:15 <+MaxieZ> Yep
10:15 <+MaxieZ> But my guess is, your kernel didn't see the drives so it never got past that
10:16 <@timoguin> Didn't see sda and sdb?
10:19 <+MaxieZ> yeah that's my guess
10:19 <+MaxieZ> Also did you set their partition types to raid autodetect?
10:19 <+MaxieZ> Cause it won't try them if they're not
10:19 <@timoguin> yea i did
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10:23 <+MaxieZ> Well that's all I can really guess at without seeing the boot load.
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10:37 <@shadowmoss> Mirage: are you around?
10:41 <@timoguin> MaxieZ: How do I remount my logical volumes via livecd?
10:41 <@shadowmoss> bummer, the filter here at work catches the pn site as a hacker site and restricts it
10:41 <@timoguin> I had /usr, /home, /var, and /tmp on /dev/md4.
10:43 <@timoguin> Do I need to run pvcreate, vgcreate, and lvcreate again?
10:48 <+MaxieZ> timoguin: Well do you have your raid array's assembled?
10:48 <@timoguin> MaxieZ: yes.
10:49 <+MaxieZ> run vgchange -ay
10:49 <@timoguin> And I already jumped the gun and ran pvcreate and vgcreate.
10:49 <@timoguin> So that probably erased what I had before...
10:50 <+MaxieZ> Honestly, I don't use lvm much, so I'm not really as keen there.
10:51 <@timoguin> Well I've never used it.
10:51 <@timoguin> So you win!
10:52 <+MaxieZ> heh
10:52 <+MaxieZ> Well I know the vgchange -ay is supposed to activate them
10:53 <+MaxieZ> You should then be able to see them in /dev/VolGroup*
10:53 <@timoguin> Shouldn't it have a record somewhere of all the LVs?
10:53 <+MaxieZ> It does on the disks I assume.
10:53 <@timoguin> sort of like fstab
10:53 <+MaxieZ> that wouldn't be on your live cd though
10:53 <+MaxieZ> until you mount /
10:53 <@timoguin> well vgchange -a y tells me there are zero LVs loaded
10:53 <@timoguin> yea I mounted it, but i can't chroot
10:54 <@timoguin> because /usr is on one of the volumes
10:54 <+MaxieZ> why does that matter?
10:55 <@timoguin> I think I had a valid reason earlier.
10:55 <@timoguin> I'll try to chroot.
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11:01 <@timoguin> Not working.
11:05 <@timoguin> So vgchange is giving me nothing.
11:05 <@timoguin> Do you think I overwrote everything when I did pvcreate and vgcreate again?
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11:09 < GodFix_> SkyDog_: is there gonna by a synopsis of the talks posted on the PN site?
11:12 <@SkyDog_> Yes. When I get a chance to get all of them together.
11:12 <@SkyDog_> I have been trying to get emails out to the people who submitted, and get the info regarding the talks that were selected.
11:13 <@timoguin> SkyDog_: You get your Mini 9 yet?
11:16 < GodFix_> k. gonna submit to work to see if I can expense the hotel again
11:17 <@Mirage> shadowmoss: whattayawant?
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11:24 < aestetix2> vagina
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11:27 <@shadowmoss> Mirage: I have mulitple sesssions again, and I can't figure out how to get rid of them...
11:27 < aestetix2> fuckign hell
11:28 < aestetix2> I asked for teryaki sauce on my sandwich
11:28 <@Mirage> who
11:28 < aestetix2> I got soy sauce
11:28 <@Mirage> oops
11:28 <@shadowmoss> aestetix2: that could take some time, fucking all of hell
11:28 <@SkyDog_> timoguin: Not yet. Gonna check in a min.
11:29 <@timoguin> Let me know how you like it.
11:29 <@timoguin> It looks like one of the nicer offerings.
11:30 <@shadowmoss> lunch time
11:31 <@Evilpig> shadowmoss: ps aux | grep <username>   then kill <process id>
11:35 <@brimstone> shadowmoss: killall -9 -u `whoami`
11:35 <@brimstone> :D
11:35 <@brimstone> then log back in and setup the one you wait
11:35 <@brimstone> *want
11:36 <@Mirage> or just /quit out of this screen session, then connect to the other one w/ 'screen -rd'
11:36 <@brimstone> http://www.asofterworld.com/clean/
11:36 <@Evilpig> I use rescreen thanks to nox
11:36 <@brimstone> rescreen?
11:37 <@Evilpig> he put a script on my box that just reattaches to my last session
11:37 <@brimstone> screen -x?
11:37 <@Evilpig> #!/bin/bash
11:37 <@Evilpig> if [ ! -e `which screen` ]; then exit 1
11:37 <@Evilpig> else SCREEN=`which screen`;
11:37 <@Evilpig> fi
11:37 <@Evilpig> SESSION=`screen -list |grep blueboy |awk -F. '{print $1}' |perl -pi -e 's/\s+//g'`
11:37 <@Evilpig> $SCREEN -d -r $SESSION
11:37 <@brimstone> ah
11:37 <@brimstone> why perl and not sed?
11:37 <@Evilpig> nox did it
11:38 <@brimstone> the nox are weird
11:38 <@Evilpig> the nox are great
11:39 < nated0g_wrk> is nox still around?
11:40 <@Evilpig> not on here
11:40 <@Evilpig> he's doing hte comedy thing in nashvegas
11:40 <@timoguin> MaxieZ: Confirmation!  pvcreate will overwrite your shit!
11:40 <@Evilpig> you can find him on aim too
11:40 <@timoguin> Yay reinstall!
11:41 < nated0g_wrk> hows ky Evilpig ?
11:41 <@Evilpig> nothing going on here.  it's boring.  need to run to lowes and get notlarry some wood
11:41 <@Evilpig> bbl
11:43 <@Corydon76-dig> Evilpig: a blowjob works better for that
11:45 <+MaxieZ> timoguin: the suck
11:46 <+MaxieZ> brimstone because sed is a pain in the ass to do space like that
11:47 <+MaxieZ> sed 's/[[:space:]][[:space:]]*//g' would be the equivalent
11:47 <+MaxieZ> though psed would be good
11:54 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
11:54 <+MaxieZ> howdy D
11:54  * aestetix2 hugs Dolemite 
11:55 <@Dolemite> I swear, this physical labor crap is for the birds.  I took the day off to do some landscaping at the house.  I've dug up two rows of box hedges and a dead tree so far.
11:55 < aestetix2> Dude, just hire a mexican.
11:56 <@Dolemite> Then who would cook my Speedy Gonzalez for $4.25?
12:00 <@Neoteric> the mexican's wife?
12:00 <@Dolemite> she's back in Mexico!
12:00 <+eryc> http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6035/bearof1.jpg
12:02 <@Jagobah> omg its pedobear
12:03 <+eryc> re: perl use in rescreen
12:03 <+eryc> its unnecessary to even remove whitespace in that line
12:05 < Shadow404> Catonic: ping
12:06 <+eryc> screen -r $(screen -list |grep `hostname` | awk -F. '{print $1}')
12:06 <+eryc> and if you only have 1 session its pointless
12:07 <@brimstone> eryc: weird picture
12:07 <@brimstone> also, if you're already connected, you won't reconnect
12:08 <+eryc> yea you'd need the -d option
12:08 <+eryc> but if you only have 1 sessions you just need, screen -d -r
12:08 <+MaxieZ> so do -x
12:08 <@brimstone> if you want to detach first, i'd have to check to see if that script did that
12:08 <+eryc> otherwise that script will return multiple lines and fail
12:08 <+MaxieZ> or just do screen -ls and freaking attach
12:11  * Catonic grumbles into existance
12:11 <@Catonic> screen -dr?
12:20 <@Neoteric> nearly 7 yrs after 9-11 I feel so much safer now
12:20 <@Neoteric> the only US embassies to be attacked are in countries US citizens should be in.
12:27 -!- aestetix2 [n=aestetix@ool-18b92cc3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
12:30 <@Catonic> I'm thinking I need to get out of this place
12:31 <@Catonic> The US may be the easiest country to travel from, but other than that... the politics and living situation are getting bad.
12:32 <@scort> oh you haven't foreclosed on your house yet?
12:32 <@scort> and you dont want douche or dumbass in office?
12:35 <@Catonic> well, i can say this makes for strange bedfellows
12:36 <@Catonic> for instance, Sen. Shelby(R-AL) is part owner of a $5 Million apartment complex down in Tuscaloosa, AL. The other owner is Freddie Mac.
12:37 < Shadow404> Catonic: dual citizenship ftw!!!
12:38 <+MaxieZ> Catonic: So where you going?  Europe?  Canada?
12:38 <+MaxieZ> Is interstellar flight an option yet?
12:41 <+eryc> you're more than welcome to try your luck on mars
12:42 <+eryc> just watch out for beagles, rovers, and decepticons
12:43 <+MaxieZ> and decepticons.
12:48 <@shadowmoss> ok, I'm off to try the one or two suggestions I actuallky understood...
12:48 -!- shadowmoss [n=shadowmo@ra.thehippo.net] has quit ["leaving"]
12:51 -!- shadowmoss [n=shadowmo@ra.thehippo.net] has joined #se2600
12:52 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o shadowmoss] by ChanServ
12:52 <@shadowmoss> arg!
12:52 <@shadowmoss> still can't get rid of them!
12:52 <@shadowmoss> Mirage: help?
12:54 <@brimstone> shadowmoss: killall -9 -u `whoami`
12:54 <@brimstone> that'll kill everything running as you
12:55 <@Catonic> lrn2unx plz
12:56 <@scort> noufist
13:16 <@Catonic> nounist.
13:17 <+eryc> shut ur face uncle fucker
13:18 <@scort> no u shut your fucking face uncle fucker!
13:18  * aestetix is starting to grow a hatred for the "young hotshot programmer"
13:19 <@scort> no hatters allowed
13:19 <@aestetix> This must be part of getting old.
13:19 <@aestetix> Soon I'll be sharing a bunk bed with Dolemite
13:20 <@scort> will you have the top bed or bottom?
13:22 <@aestetix> I think we'll have to flip a coin
13:25 <+eryc> you prefer bottom or top?
13:25 <@aestetix> Bottom. Sometimes I'm afraid of heights.
13:26 <+eryc> ah so you like big pedobears then
13:27 <+eryc> does that give you back problems?
13:27 <@aestetix> Sleeping on the bottom bunk?
13:29 <+eryc> no sleeping with a pedobear
13:29 <@aestetix> Is Dolemite a pedobear?
13:30 <@scort> bend over and find out
13:32 -!- maco [n=maco@ubuntu/member/macogw] has quit [No route to host]
13:32 <@Catonic> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS1P3r5saNk <- this seems to kick in as you approach 30.
13:34 -!- maco [n=maco@ubuntu/member/macogw] has joined #se2600
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13:39 <@Catonic> ^ 1:24 and on
13:44 <@shadowmoss> I'm studying for the security+
13:44 <@shadowmoss> I understand the concept of symetrical keys, but don't understand how they can be secure...
13:44 <@shadowmoss> anyone know a good description I can read (free)
13:45 <@shadowmoss> ok, guess I don't really understand the whole public/private key thing
13:45 <@aestetix> Heh.
13:45 <@aestetix> Hold on.
13:45 <@shadowmoss> make that, does anyone know how I can figure out and understand keys in general... sigh
13:45 <@shadowmoss> aestetix: consider me holding on
13:46 <@shadowmoss> remember, I can't even get rid of my screen sessions...
13:46 <@timoguin> shadowmoss: Did you see the postings about the Little Brother book on the se2600 list?
13:46 <@aestetix> http://www.aestetix.net/?page=modern
13:46 <@aestetix> I believe that deals with public key
13:47 <@shadowmoss> ummm, is that the one where the kid was in a 'watched' school?
13:47 <@timoguin> shadowmoss: yae.
13:47 <@timoguin> *yea
13:47 <@shadowmoss> aestetix: danka, I'll check it out
13:47 <@timoguin> That had a really good explanation of public/private keys in one of the chapters.
13:47 <@shadowmoss> timoguin: I read the first few paragraphs, up till he was leaving school that day, but his friend had a library book
13:47 <@aestetix> timoguin: It did.
13:47 <@shadowmoss> at that point it was a bit convoluted to me
13:47 <@aestetix> However, so does my website ;)
13:48 <@timoguin> aestetix: Your website is monkey balls!
13:48 <@aestetix> shadowmoss: the link I gave you is simple, and as nonmathematical as possible.
13:48  * shadowmoss heads over to aestetix's place for some schoolin'
13:48 -!- ShadowHntr [i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr] has joined #se2600
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13:48 <@aestetix> shadowmoss: ignore the juvenile writing style. I think I wrote that stuff five years ago.
13:49 <@timoguin> My prof is writing a bunch of old linguistic symbols on the board, and everyone is writing them down.
13:49 <@timoguin> But I brought my digital camera!
13:49 <@aestetix> uh
13:49 -!- squirrelt3rd [n=non3@c-76-22-147-71.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit []
13:49 <@aestetix> You know, writing them down helps you to remember them.
13:49 <@timoguin> I know. =)
13:50 <@timoguin> But there's like 60 of them.
13:50 <@scort> lazy ass
13:50 <@scort> just take pictures of all his notes
13:50 <@timoguin> I have to redo my gentoo install!
13:50 <@scort> that will save you so much time!
13:50 <@shadowmoss> aestetix: cryptography and juvenile don't belong in the same sentence
13:50 <@aestetix> Heh.
13:51 <@shadowmoss> did I mention to you that a neighbor that I tried to run off my property for bring a bulldozer onto it ended up working in cryptography?
13:51 <@timoguin> The basic ideas do, I think.
13:51 <@aestetix> shadowmoss: did the site make any sense?
13:51 <@shadowmoss> he wouldn't talk about it, I think the 'oh cool, the housemate and I are both in 2600' scared hi off
13:52 <@shadowmoss> I can't type and read at the same time!  give me a few hours...
13:52  * aestetix grins
13:52 <@aestetix> There are some really, really bad descriptions of cryptography algorithms out there.
13:52 <@Evilpig> SkyDog_: ping
13:52 <@timoguin> There are some really, really bad descriptions of * out there.
13:52 <@aestetix> I saw this book that was explaining a Vigenere cipher... it actually broke down into discrete math.
13:53 <@shadowmoss> so far, lots of references to 'my previous tutorial' and 'by now you should be familiar with...'
13:54 <@shadowmoss> feel like I'm jumping into the middle (which could be fun in some cases, but I'm thinking not so much with cryptology)
13:54 <@timoguin> shadowmoss: so what does it take to get the security+ certification?
13:54 <@timoguin> like money-wise etc.
13:54 <@aestetix> shadowmoss: skip to the part xiii
13:54 <@SkyDog_> Evilpig: In a meeting...
13:54 <@aestetix> er, xii
13:55 <@shadowmoss> timoguin: $225 for the test
13:55 <@aestetix> http://www.aestetix.net/?page=crypto has a good description of what "keys" are
13:55 <@Evilpig> will send via pm
13:55 <@shadowmoss> "seems common sense today..." ummm, no it doesn't!
13:56 <@timoguin> shadowmoss: do you know if it's about the same for network+ and a+?
13:57 <@aestetix> shadowmoss: apparently I've been doing this stuff too long :p
13:57 <@someninjamaster> SkyDog_: whats her name
13:58 <@Catonic> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTZc0hJX09U&NR=1
13:58 <@Evilpig> someninjamaster: budget
13:58 <@someninjamaster> ah
13:58 <@Evilpig> it's kind of a manly name tbh
13:58 <@shadowmoss> timoguin: http://www.proprofs.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Comptia_Security%2B_Certification_Exam
13:58 <@someninjamaster> i thought budget was the one with no teeth
13:58 <@shadowmoss> very basic site with overview
13:59 <@shadowmoss> http://www.techexams.net/technotes/securityplus/internet_security.shtml
13:59 <@shadowmoss> more extensive study guide (may be a link to the middle of it where I'm at now
14:00 <@timoguin> http://www.proprofs.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Comptia_Security%2B_Certification_Exam
14:00 <@timoguin> oops.
14:00 <@timoguin> shadowmoss: thanks.
14:01 <@shadowmoss> aestetix: ok, this basically is what I DO understand
14:01 <@timoguin> Switching back and forth between windows, linux, and mac can make for some weird copy and paste shit.
14:01 <@aestetix> yes?
14:02 <@shadowmoss> what I don't understand is the mechanics of how something that is encrypted with a 'public' key and that can be decrypted with a 'private' key is any more secure than just using the same damn key on both ends
14:02 <@shadowmoss> and the problem with that as I see it, is that if you are sending the damn key to the other end so they can use it
14:02 <@shadowmoss> what keeps the 12yo's in Romania from getting that long with the message?
14:02 <@aestetix> Ahh.
14:03 <@Catonic> public key cryptography
14:03 <@aestetix> shadowmoss: that's a really common question, actually.
14:03 <@Catonic> it's math.
14:03 <@oddball> The best analogy I've heard is it's kind of like sending someone an open lock box and keeping the key.
14:03 <@shadowmoss> symetrical means that the same key is used on both ends, right?
14:03 <@aestetix> No.
14:03 <@aestetix> symmetrical means that it can be enciphered and deciphered.
14:03 <@timoguin> Can't you encrypt it with your private key and their public key?
14:04 <@aestetix> timoguin: yes, but don't get confusing :)
14:04 <@aestetix> Ok, basically...
14:04 <@aestetix> gah work calls
14:04 <@shadowmoss> I understand the ideas behind your public, my private, etc.
14:04 <@aestetix> bbi5
14:04 <@shadowmoss> 'k
14:04 <@oddball> The person can take the open box, put things in, and then lock it.  In theory, no one but the guy with the key (you) can open the box after that.
14:04 <@timoguin> aestetix: Little Brother made it make a lot more sense to me.
14:04 <@timoguin> Still have yet to put it into practice.
14:04 <@aestetix> ok
14:05 <@shadowmoss> timoguin: damn, I have to wade through the book for it?
14:05 <@Corydon76-dig> I think the information on public/private keyspaces is a little obtuse, though
14:05 <@aestetix> oddball: rather than analogies, maybe offer examples of actual uses of the cryptosystems.
14:06 <@shadowmoss> aestetix: also, remember that I first learned 'computers' when they were discreet logical gates
14:06 <@Corydon76-dig> I believe that a public key can actually be derived from a private key... so a public key is more like a subkey
14:06 <@aestetix> shadowmoss: you raise a great point about "what if they have the same key"
14:06 <@shadowmoss> I used to build devices with relays because I like them better than IC's
14:06 <@Corydon76-dig> than a true analog opposite
14:06 <@timoguin> shadowmoss: Well there was one specific section that described it.  Could probably be found easily with a firefox search.
14:06 <@Evilpig> shadowmoss: you better watch it.  you're dating yourself
14:06 <@aestetix> however, here's the question: who makes the key, and how do they send it to the other person without someone else reading it?
14:07 <@aestetix> I'm online, and I send an email with my key in it to my friend. All our future emails are encrypted with that key.
14:07 <@shadowmoss> aestetix: sure, lets start there
14:07  * shadowmoss smacks Evilpig 
14:07 <@aestetix> Well, what if someone intercepts the email and gets my key?
14:07 <@ShadowHntr> your private key cannot be derived from the encrypted text
14:07 <@ShadowHntr> and you're supposed to guard your private key
14:07 <@shadowmoss> or, hell, how about the ones who put their public key on their email on the lists?
14:07 <@aestetix> It defeats the entire point. If I don't know they intercepted it, I'll continue sending emails that have already been cracked.
14:08 <@aestetix> ShadowHntr: slow down ;)
14:08 <@ShadowHntr> if you encrypt something with your private key, the public key is needed to decrypt
14:08 <@ShadowHntr> and vice versa
14:08 <@Corydon76-dig> ShadowHntr: I don't believe that's true
14:08 <@aestetix> shadowmoss: So the solution is, I create two keys, public and private.
14:08 <@ShadowHntr> yes
14:08 <@aestetix> The public key, anyone can see. It's posted in the footers of my emails.
14:08 <@ShadowHntr> you generate a key pair
14:08 <@ShadowHntr> yeap
14:08 <@aestetix> The private key, nobody sees.
14:08 <@ShadowHntr> exactly.
14:09 <@Corydon76-dig> If you encrypt with the private key, the private key can also be used to decrypt it.  The point is, the public key only has a single direction
14:09 <@aestetix> So the idea is, I encrypt my messages with my private key, and email them to my friend Bob.
14:09 <@aestetix> He can decrypt them with my public key.
14:09 <@shadowmoss> but, your public key is (wait for it...) public
14:09 <@shadowmoss> anyone can find it
14:09 <@aestetix> So there are two keys, one private (your use only), one public. The former encrypts the email, the latter decrypts it.
14:09 <@shadowmoss> so, where is the secuirty?
14:10 <@aestetix> Well, it works both ways.
14:10 <@Corydon76-dig> aestetix: you have it backwards
14:10 <@aestetix> If I encrypt it with my public key, I can decrypt wit with my private it.
14:10 <@Corydon76-dig> When you send an email, you encrypt it with the OTHER person's public key
14:10 <@aestetix> s/with/it/
14:10 <@aestetix> Corydon76-dig: I was getting there.
14:10 <@Corydon76-dig> So only the receiver can decrypt it
14:10 <@Corydon76-dig> Or rather, only the INTENDED receiver can decrypt it
14:11 <@shadowmoss> so, that's why some obtuse folks put their public keys in their email?
14:11 <@brimstone> public key crypto comes down to just really big prime numbers
14:11 <@Corydon76-dig> shadowmoss: because you want other people to have your public key, so they can send you messages that only you can read
14:11 <@aestetix> shadowmoss: if I have an email, and I grab their public key, and encrypt my email with it, only they will be able to read it. Because it has to be encrypted with their private key.
14:12 <@aestetix> However....
14:12 <@shadowmoss> aestetix: decrypted...
14:12 <@aestetix> Er, yeah.
14:12 <@aestetix> Thanks.
14:12 <@timoguin> shadowmoss: http://craphound.com/littlebrother/Cory_Doctorow_-_Little_Brother.htm
14:12 <@shadowmoss> :)
14:12 <@timoguin> It's Chapter 10.
14:12 <@aestetix> Good, sounds like you understand it a bit :)
14:12 <@shadowmoss> see, I'm reading
14:12 <@Corydon76-dig> shadowmoss: and you want the public keys of everybody to whom you want to send encrypted messages
14:12 <@timoguin> About 4 paragraphs in.
14:12 <@shadowmoss> timoguin: dana
14:12 <@shadowmoss> err, danka
14:12 <@aestetix> Also, if someone sends you an encrypted message, and you are able to decrypt it with their public key, you know it's legit.
14:13 <@Corydon76-dig> shadowmoss: the only real risk with PKI is that you don't get the real public key of somebody and you encrypt using a compromised key
14:13 <@aestetix> Because only a message encrypted with their private key can be decrypted with their public key.
14:13 <@Corydon76-dig> aestetix: NO!  You NEVER encrypt with a private key!
14:13 <@aestetix> shadowmoss: so... let's see if this made sense. If I want to send an encrypted email to someone, and prove that it was from me, how would I do it?
14:13 <@brimstone> you sign with private and encrypt with public
14:13 <@shadowmoss> aestetix: unless someone else got their public key and used it to encrypt it
14:14 <@aestetix> Corydon76-dig: I'm just explaining the theory.
14:14 <@Corydon76-dig> aestetix: don't explain the wrong things; you'll confuse your students
14:14  * aestetix sighs
14:14 <@aestetix> Take the throne, then.
14:14 <@brimstone> more "this is what happens" less "this is what you could do"
14:14 <@aestetix> Fucking engineers...
14:15  * shadowmoss needs bran bleach after thinking of Corydon76-dig on the throne
14:15 <@shadowmoss> brain
14:15 <@Corydon76-dig> aestetix: TEACHERS
14:15 <@aestetix> hahaha
14:15 <@timoguin> Why would you not encrypt it with your private key?
14:15 <@timoguin> Your public key can decrypt it on their end.
14:15 <@Corydon76-dig> timoguin: because you spread your public key around
14:15 <@shadowmoss> if it could be decrypted with your public key, which is, umm, public, where is the security?
14:15 <@Corydon76-dig> So anybody who has your public key could read it
14:16  * shadowmoss is worried that she and Corydon76-dig are saying the same thing for once
14:16 <@Corydon76-dig> You use your private key for only two things... decrypting, and signing
14:16 <@timoguin> Corydon76-dig: but it's a key pair.  Something encrypted with a private key can be decrypted with a public key.
14:16 <@aestetix> That's what I meant. Signing.
14:16 <@timoguin> Right?
14:16 <+MxZBot> wrong?
14:16 <@Corydon76-dig> timoguin: correct
14:16  * shadowmoss hugs MxZBot 
14:17 <@aestetix> MxZBot: ?
14:17 <+MxZBot> no idea, aestetix
14:17 <@aestetix> fail
14:17 <@timoguin> So what is the issue with encrypting with your private key?
14:17 <@Corydon76-dig> and a public key is also used for two things:  encrypting, and verifying a signature
14:17 <@Corydon76-dig> timoguin: Your public key is known to everybody
14:17 <@Corydon76-dig> timoguin: so if you encrypt with a private key, ANYBODY can read the message
14:18 <@timoguin> by using your public key, right?
14:18 <@Corydon76-dig> Correct
14:18 <@timoguin> but anyone could encrypt something with your public key, couldn't they?
14:18 <@Corydon76-dig> timoguin: Yes, they could... but ONLY you can read it
14:18 <@shadowmoss> so, encrypted with the public key, only decrypted with the private one
14:19 <@Corydon76-dig> This is where signatures come into play
14:19 <@shadowmoss> encrypted with the private key, anyone with the public key can decrypt
14:19 -!- ziplock [i=nobody@pdpc/supporter/active/ziplock] has left #se2600 []
14:19 <@timoguin> oh so you're talking about encrypting with _their_ public key.
14:19 <@Corydon76-dig> Since anybody can send you a message, verifying WHO sent it becomes important
14:19 <@Corydon76-dig> timoguin: correct
14:19 <@timoguin> that way they can decrypt it with their private key.
14:19 <@shadowmoss> ok, starting to make sense
14:19 <@shadowmoss> I had it backwards before
14:19 <@Corydon76-dig> So you sign a message (that was encrypted with THEIR public key) with YOUR private key
14:20 <@Corydon76-dig> And then they can use your public key to verify that the message came from you
14:20 <@shadowmoss> now I need to figure out what my keys are from when I was made a trust whatever for whatever certificate we did back when...
14:20 <@timoguin> So signing would just be like encrypting it again?
14:20 <@Corydon76-dig> No, not like encrypting
14:20 <@timoguin> Encrypt with their public, then your private.
14:20 <@Corydon76-dig> You're creating a hssh on the message, using your private key
14:21 <@shadowmoss> hash?
14:21 <@Corydon76-dig> and that trails the message
14:21 <@poiupoiu> ooh, scott moulton is doing another talk at PN?
14:21 <@Corydon76-dig> like an MD5 hash
14:21 <@shadowmoss> you typed hssh
14:21 <@Corydon76-dig> Sorry
14:21 <@shadowmoss> :)
14:21 <@timoguin> it's pronounced the same way. =)
14:22 <@shadowmoss> ok, got it (I think)
14:22 <@Corydon76-dig> Since it's a cryptographic hash, it can only be verified if you have the person's public key
14:22 <@Corydon76-dig> So it's a sign that a person who has the private key which corresponds to a certain public key signed (and therefore sent) the message
14:22 <@shadowmoss> I need a drink...
14:23  * shadowmoss wanders off to find something to drink
14:24 <@timoguin> So I just finished reinstalling gentoo on my server.
14:25 <@timoguin> I'm afraid to reboot.
14:25 <@timoguin> I'm far away.
14:27 <@brimstone> don't show the box fear
14:27 <@brimstone> reboot it
14:27 <@brimstone> init 6 it
14:28 <@brimstone> if it wants to live, it'll come back up
14:28 <@timoguin> But I might not be able to connect!
14:28 <@timoguin> and ping will remain in limbo!
14:28 <@timoguin> for all of eternity!
14:28 <@Catonic> make it YOUR bitch.
14:28 <@brimstone> that ping was bred for death
14:31 <@Drag0n> it has a short lifespan anyway
14:31 <@brimstone> icmp packets are like minions, you can never have enough
14:32 <@Drag0n> they are the network equivalent to lemmings, send them to the cliff
14:32 <@Evilpig> haha
14:41 <@shadowmoss> aestetix: I found a different description of symetrical and asymetrical keys
14:41 <@shadowmoss> A symmetric encryption algorithm. uses the same key for encryption and decryption. When an different key is used for encryption and decryption this known as asymmetric encryption.
14:41 <@shadowmoss> (previous was pasted from site
14:42 <@shadowmoss> when something can't be decryped, it is called a hash
14:42 <@shadowmoss> public/private keys are asymetrical
14:42 <@brimstone> i would say when something isn't meant to be decrypted, it's a hash
14:42 <@shadowmoss> session keys are symmetrical
14:44 <@shadowmoss> the session keys are what I was thinking was subject to interception, and that is what it kinda says
14:45 <@shadowmoss> being symetrical, some information has to be exchanged to get on the same page, and that information would be vulnerable to being intercepted
14:45  * shadowmoss dumps the bit bucket on brimstone 
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14:47 <+eryc> does anyone know the escape sequence for the F12 key?
14:47 < Shadow404> brimstone: ill cut ya with a rusty knife....
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14:49 < Shadow404> eryc: what sorta system?
14:50 < Shadow404> xterm should be ^[[24~
14:50 < pulse> heyo; does anyone remember the phreaknic shirt from a couple years ago with the anthropomorphic ms pacman on the front eating cherries?
14:50 < pulse> i had one, but i think someone swiped it from me
14:50 <+MaxieZ> You mean the PN4 one?
14:51 < pulse> i can't remember which year it was
14:51 <@Evilpig> was that 4?  i was thinking 5
14:51 <+MaxieZ> Yeah I still have mine
14:52 < pulse> i'd like to get another one
14:53 < pulse> found a nashville 2600 store at 128bit.clickandpledge.com, but the old shirts they have there are for PN7 (and no images!)
14:54 <@Corydon76-dig> We don't have any shirts older than PN7
14:54 <@Corydon76-dig> PN6 sold out, which was the first year under the present administration
14:55 < pulse> damn; any way i can get a copy of the design suitable for print?
14:55 <@Evilpig> all other shirts you need to track down jonnyx
14:55 <@Corydon76-dig> Before that, jonnyx was in charge, and he has any remaining shirts
14:55 < pulse> cool
14:55 <@Corydon76-dig> In terms of the design, the best I can tell you is to find someone with one of those shirts
14:56 <@Corydon76-dig> No idea if jonnyx has even kept the artwork
14:56 < pulse> i think gettin in touch with jonnyx is the most appropriate course of action at this point
14:58 < pulse> anyone have his email address?  he used to have a mindspring.com addy back when he posted on nlug, but that was years ago
14:58 <+MaxieZ> Remember.  There's a difference between getting in touch and touching: http://gallery.phreaknic.info/gallery/whyyousuck/Why_You_Suck_Slides_14
14:58 <@shadowmoss> the eeepc's are being sold at Target now, at least on-line
14:59 <@shadowmoss> $399 for the one I want
14:59  * shadowmoss doesn't need another computer...
14:59 <+MaxieZ> my dell mini should be here any day.
14:59 <@SkyDog_> Waiting on mine too.
15:00 <@shadowmoss> I have my D430
15:00 <@shadowmoss> so, how much smaller is the mini than the D430?
15:00 <@shadowmoss> I looked at the specs but can't really tell
15:00 <@oddball> shadowmoss: looking at the 4g 701?
15:00 <@shadowmoss> 900
15:00 <@shadowmoss> 16G
15:00 <@shadowmoss> Black
15:00 <@oddball> Ah, ok
15:00 <@shadowmoss> $399 at Target on-line
15:00 <@shadowmoss> maybe in stores, I need to check
15:01 <+MaxieZ> I'm not sure.  The eeepc's weren't an option for me
15:01 <@oddball> I highly doubt in stores.
15:01 <@shadowmoss> who'd a thunk Target on-line either?
15:01 <@oddball> true
15:02 <+eryc> Shadow404: thanks it was esc-shift-2
15:03 <@oddball> I'd recomend the 901.  The 4 extra GB of harddrive space is a faster falsh card that the 16GB one in the current 900, plus you get a little faster processor and longer battery life.  Granted, it's $100 more...
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15:14 <@brimstone> Irongeek!
15:14 <@Corydon76-dig> If anybody wants a hoodie with this year's design, I need orders by COB today
15:15 < Irongeek> Howdy.
15:16 <@SkyDog_> Heya Irongeek.
15:17 <@SkyDog_> I will be sending you an email in a bit about your slot on the PN talk list.
15:17 <@SkyDog_> of course, the topic shows the schedule, so you'll see it there too. :)
15:18 < Irongeek> Awesome. Thanks.
15:21 <@shadowmoss> another question (of course)
15:21 <@shadowmoss> HTTPS I had heard was port 81, whereas unsecured http was port 80
15:22 < Irongeek> 443
15:22 <@shadowmoss> I'm reading that https is port 443
15:22 <@shadowmoss> ok, I've been giving out wrong information in the classes we teach
15:22 <@shadowmoss> luckily, that has only been passing info, our stuff in intranet on port 80
15:23  * shadowmoss goes back to reading
15:24 <+eryc> nothing uses port 81
15:25 <@shadowmoss> sigh
15:25 <@shadowmoss> must. stop. listening. to. co-workers. on. anything. computer. related.
15:26 <@shadowmoss> so, while I'm here, FTP uses port 21 and 22?
15:26 < Irongeek> FTP uses port 21 and some others. I don't remeber the details.
15:26 < Irongeek> 22 is SSH most of the time.
15:27 <@shadowmoss> ok, just read that FTP is 20 and 21, then I guess SSH is 22
15:27 <@brimstone> ftp uses 21 for control and 20 for data
15:27 <@brimstone> typically, but it can use any range the server says it want to use
15:27 < Irongeek> http://www.slacksite.com/other/ftp.html
15:30 <@shadowmoss> Irongeek: just a cursory read, and it lost me, but I'll check it out later...
15:30 <@timoguin> Got some cool new fish.
15:30 <@shadowmoss> supper?
15:30 <@Dolemite> heh, from the look of the schedule, am I partially responsible for getting Decius into his drunken state?
15:30 <@timoguin> shadowmoss: fishtank. =)
15:30 <@shadowmoss> ah
15:30 <@timoguin> Although they are supposedly very edible.
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15:32 <@timoguin> Pacu.
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15:50 <@Corydon76-dig> Damn, the bf is walking around the house n3kk1d... damn distracting...
15:50 <@ShadowHntr> lol
15:52 <@brimstone> heh, the good kind of distracting
15:54 <@Dolemite> and on that note
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15:58 <@Corydon76-dig> brimstone: actually, I'm trying to put together a presentation that I have to give next Tuesday
15:59 <@brimstone> see what you get for waiting till the last minute? dick in your face
16:03 <@scort> http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/09/18/hadron.collider.transformer.breaks.ap/index.html they already broke their new toy
16:12 <@aestetix> Corydon76-dig: you have a bf?
16:13 <@scort> he picked one up at the local mexican hire for work market
16:15 <+MaxieZ> scort: That's really going to piss of the black hole gods
16:17 <@Corydon76-dig> Actually, I picked up off of gay.com
16:20 <@Evilpig> what is the fastest way to see what app is causing my i/o wait time to skyrocket?
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16:21 <@Corydon76-dig> Evilpig: try 'top'
16:22 <@Evilpig> I have top running and I see the io wait at the top spiking to 99%
16:22 <@Evilpig> but I don't see a colum for i/o wait like mem and stuff
16:24 <+MaxieZ> pio?
16:24 <@Evilpig> 91.1%wa,
16:24 <@Evilpig> it's spiking.  trying to figure out why
16:27 <@Corydon76-dig> Evilpig: swaps might do that
16:27 -!- rattle [n=rattle@tor/regular/rattle] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:27 <@Corydon76-dig> and you might be swapping because something has locked a large amount of memory into physical RAM
16:28 <@Evilpig> Swap:  1052152k total,    14864k used,  1037288k free,   365136k cached
16:28 <@Evilpig> I shoudl up the ram though.  512 is a little low
16:28 <@Evilpig> Mem:    515064k total,   508708k used,     6356k free,     1516k buffers
16:30 <+MaxieZ> Show us free -m
16:30 <+MaxieZ> though 512 is low :)
16:30 <@Evilpig>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
16:30 <@Evilpig> Mem:           502        496          6          0          1        350
16:30 <@Evilpig> -/+ buffers/cache:        145        357
16:30 <@Evilpig> Swap:         1027         14       1012
16:30 <+MaxieZ> You're fine.
16:31 <+MaxieZ> 357 of it is waiting for your love
16:31 <@Evilpig> it is just doing ip traffic. little bit of content filtering.  nothing that heavy.  but it just went nuts on me a few min ago
16:32 <+eryc> use iotop from dtrace
16:32 <+eryc> oh linux haha
16:32 <+eryc> :P
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16:35 <@Evilpig> foudn it
16:35 <@Evilpig> squid is doing some type of cache maint
16:36 <@Evilpig> it is releasing blcoks like crazy
16:36 <@scort> pics
16:37 <@Evilpig> 6.4G -rw-r-----  1 squid squid 6.4G 2008-09-18 21:38 store.log
16:37 <@Evilpig> like wtf releasing shit
16:41 <+MaxieZ> Looks like pidstat is the answer as well
16:50 <@timoguin> How can I find out exactly what module my scsi adapter is using on this livecd?
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16:51 <@timoguin> The cards say LSI Logic Symbios SYM8951U
16:52 <+MaxieZ> lsmod should give you a big hint
16:53 <@timoguin> I know, but there are a bunch of them loaded.
16:54 <@timoguin> I don't really know if they're actually being used or if it autoloaded a bunch of them so it would be more likely to work.
16:57 <+eryc> doesnt the output say if its used?
17:01 <+MaxieZ> jonnyx@mindspring.com is the email
17:02 <+MaxieZ> dmesg should help as well
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17:05 <+MaxieZ> try lshw
17:05 <+MaxieZ> Look for the driver= line
17:05 <@timoguin> I figured it out.
17:06 <@timoguin> Took three kernel compiles to get it to boot.
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17:29 < cerkit> I was at a client today
17:29 < cerkit> I did a netinstall of Hardy (Ubuntu 8.04)
17:30 < cerkit> On their assbackward network, it took almost all day.
17:30 < cerkit> The thing boots and for whatever reason, can't load X...
17:30 < cerkit> but worse... the fucking console selection is wrong, and at boot up..
17:30 < cerkit> it looks like I've been terminal flashed :P
17:31 < cerkit> It was a fun way to kill about 6 hours.
17:33 <@sdodson> time spent in ubuntu is time wasted
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17:33 < cerkit> sdodson: Uh, you no like?
17:33 < cerkit> Why?
17:33 < Synx_hm> i really hope tickets are still aval at the box office for tonights BB King
17:34 < cerkit> sdodson: Whats your problem with Ubuntu?
17:35 <@sdodson> 00ubuntu is a cancer
17:35 < cerkit> So you don't have a technical basis?
17:35 <@sdodson> that was a typo not me being childish
17:35 < cerkit> sdodson: No, but, do you dislike it for some technical reason?
17:36 < cerkit> I have a friend who doesn't like bees; but its because if he gets stung he'll die -- thats a good reason.
17:36 <@sdodson> i dont like their lack of positive contributions
17:36 < cerkit> wha?
17:36 < cerkit> what does that mean?
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17:38 < cerkit> sdodson: Well, seriously, at some point, explain to me any serious issue you have with it. I'm interested.
17:38 <@sdodson> it means i think they do nothing to contribute back they only care about hack job solutions
17:38 < cerkit> sdodson: I've got several projects I'm using it in.
17:39 <@sdodson> i will can you wai 3 minutes though?
17:39 < cerkit> Really.
17:39 < cerkit> Sure.
17:39 < cerkit> I'd like to hear some examples when you get time.
17:39 < cerkit> So, just let me know.
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17:45 < cerkit> Tonight, in Washington, many of the comittee heads of Congress, as well Ben Bernanke, and the sometimes called Heroic, Secretary of Treasury Paulson...
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17:46 < cerkit> will meet to deciede on a way to defend the US from falling into a second Great Depression.
17:46 < cerkit> My guess is, they'll probably end up creating the same kind of RTC they did in 85
17:47 < cerkit> But, this will be historic none the less; the scale of these issues dwarf all previous eonomic downturns.
17:47 < cerkit> ( so it should make for good TV )
17:47 <@Evilpig> alright who spoke his name three times and made him appear?
17:47 < cerkit> I believe it was rhia.
17:48 < cerkit> She still has 2 wishes left before I can go back.
17:48 <@Evilpig> on another topic non box of rocks related.  if I have the source file for an iptables module but the module isn't in /lib/modules/2.6.26.3-29.fc9.i686/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/
17:48 <@Evilpig> what am I missing?
17:49 < cerkit> Can ya paste the compile-time failure?
17:49 < cerkit> I may be able to help you, as much as you'll dislike that.
17:49 <@Evilpig>  /usr/include/linux/netfilter_ipv4/ipt_iprange.h  <-- think that is the module
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17:50 <@Evilpig> hrmm.  modprobe is taking it now.  maybe it will work
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17:54 <@Evilpig> yay no error now. iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth1 -p TCP --dport 80 -m iprange --src-range 192.168.100.226-192.168.100.250 -j REDIRECT --to-port 3128
17:56 <+eryc> http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/cybercrime/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=210602547
17:58 <+eryc> http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/silence/archives/2008/09/report_ut_stude.shtml
17:58 < cerkit> eryc: do you own CLWR?
17:58 < cerkit> you should, if you don't.
17:59 < cerkit> eryc: http://finance.google.com/finance?q=CLWR
17:59 <+eryc> i dont own any stock
17:59 < cerkit> what!?
17:59 <+MxZBot> what are you all asleep?
17:59 < cerkit> shamepshame.
17:59 < cerkit> err shame-shame
17:59 <+eryc> heh
17:59 < cerkit> eryc: how will you retire comfortably!?
17:59 <+eryc> they gonna have a big wimax network soon?
18:00 <+eryc> im gonna make a lot of money
18:00 < cerkit> they're Google/Intel//HPs WiMax solution.
18:00 < cerkit> they pumped billions into them, to wimax the world
18:00 < cerkit> months ago
18:01 < cerkit> Its obviously a stock with like a 10 year time horizon, but, it has a great deal of potential, considering it partners.
18:01 <+eryc> i'm working on a time machine so i can buy google ipo stock
18:02 < cerkit> a lot of good it would do you
18:02 < cerkit> 140 a share isn't very cheap
18:02 < cerkit> if you bould the tiem mahine
18:02 < cerkit> just sell it
18:02 < cerkit> you'll be fine
18:02 <@sdodson> cerkit: So...
18:03 < cerkit> So, Ubuntu?
18:03 < cerkit> Fire away.
18:04 <@sdodson> cerkit: My objection to Ubuntu is that it seems to be nothing more than brute force hacks to get things working today with no real eye towards working on proper solutions. They've got a proven track record of consistently not understanding open source software.
18:04 <@sdodson> Aside from Upstart I can't think of any significant contributions that have come about from the Ubuntu community.
18:04 < cerkit> So you problem with that fork, is largely the philosophy of the team.
18:05 < cerkit> I would consider the ease with which they've repackaged Debian, and quite smartly I might add, were compelling enough contributions to spark my interest.
18:05 < cerkit> As I said, I'm using it in a couple projects.
18:05 <+eryc> the brown wallpapers and gtk themes are significant contributions
18:06 < cerkit> Can you name some examples of when its released something hacky, like that?
18:06 <+eryc> the codename for the next release is hairy whore
18:07 < cerkit> I thought it was jackelope?
18:07 < cerkit> the fictional animal
18:07 <@sdodson> It's my understanding that they pretty much brute force every wifi driver in and just hope that one of them works. Same with xorg.
18:07 < cerkit> sdodson: That wouldn't surprise me.
18:07 <@sdodson> Shuttleworth's main praise for their last LTS release was that it nailed release date despite being HORRIBLY flawed.
18:08 < cerkit> What do you find particularly wrong with that though, given the nature of the use case of the software?
18:08 < cerkit> I'd agree that X should be smarter by now, but, I don't particular fault Ubuntu for that
18:08 < cerkit> they just package it
18:09 <@sdodson> I find that it does nothing to create real solutions to the problem which means it does nothing for the open source community as a whole other than attracting droves of mindless zombies that can copy and paste a sudo line from a forum post.
18:09 <@sdodson> My problem is that they're masking the real problems and doing nothing to actually solve them.
18:09 < cerkit> sdodson: How did you imagine a world running Linux would be?
18:09 < cerkit> :)
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18:09 <+eryc> i luv zombie
18:10 < cerkit> A world on Linux is a world of script kids, to be sure.
18:10 < cerkit> No matter what distro it is.
18:10 <@sdodson> No, there are truly technically capable people who are interested in solving real problems.
18:10 < cerkit> I know, but, at the scale that the world would all be running Linux
18:10 < cerkit> you can expect a majority of script kids, is my point
18:11 < cerkit> Ubuntu attracts that grade of user-- the any man.
18:11 < cerkit> My view is, thats good for Linux.
18:11 <@sdodson> And that's fine, but if that's the only real contribution to the cause then phoey.
18:11 <@Dagmar> Actually, Xorg came leaps and bounds forward when it was forked.
18:11 < cerkit> Dagmar: agreed.
18:11 < cerkit> So did Ubuntu frankly
18:12 < cerkit> if you look at who could install Debian
18:12 < cerkit> and who could install Ubuntu...
18:12 < cerkit> and the structural goals at the beginning... its largely a success.
18:12 <@Dagmar> Yeah, I'm pretty sure their inclusion of compiz as a standard thing had much to do with Microsoft dusting off Aero Glass and putting it back into Vista
18:12 < cerkit> I guess though I haven't probed the community as much as sdodson has though.
18:12 <@Dagmar> I actively avoid their "community"
18:13 <@Dagmar> That's Endless September territory.
18:13 < cerkit> I sort of avoid most "communities" like that
18:13 < cerkit> so, I can dig it.
18:13 <@Dagmar> I can tolerate the Slackware users, mostly.
18:13 < cerkit> But, I'm curious why sdodson expected different from Ubuntu.
18:13 <@sdodson> To me it's just a house of cards.
18:13 < cerkit> sdodson: House of cards?
18:13 <@Dagmar> ...but I think that's got a lot to do with the learning curve drives away the mentally disabled
18:14 < cerkit> Linux... or Ubuntu?
18:14 <@sdodson> cerkit: Ubuntu.
18:14 < cerkit> How so?
18:14 <+eryc> at least they are brown cards
18:14 <@sdodson> I get the impression everything I've just said wasn't read. :(
18:14 < cerkit> eryc: admittedly they had balls to use those as core oolors, heh.
18:14 < cerkit> shit-brown?
18:14 < cerkit> yeah, thats balls.
18:15 <@Dagmar> Sadly, from practical experience, the next runner up for "biggest collection of clueles" seems to be Gentoo still.
18:15 < cerkit> sdodson: No, I read it but, I imagine the whole "many eyes" theme surrounds the project and so, I can't imagine it being that way forever.
18:15 < cerkit> Thats why I don't see how its a House of Cards...
18:15 <@Dagmar> cerkit: Too right.  The MythTV binaries Ubuntu was shipping were horrible when it got down to about two guys working on them, and two guys only.
18:16 <@Dagmar> Threats about dropping them were made until more people started poking at it and making it less retarded.
18:16 < cerkit> Yeah.
18:16 <+eryc> its less retarded now?
18:16 < cerkit> See, I assume in a general way, all of it will eventually go under that partiular sort of microscope.
18:16 < cerkit> Given along enough lifeycle, that is.
18:17 <@Dagmar> eryc: Lets just say that you're no longer better off building MythTV from source while shaving with broken bottle ends than you would be to install the MythTV binaries Ubuntu has
18:17 <@Dagmar> It was *bad*.
18:17 < cerkit> aahahahaha
18:17 < cerkit> I never used MythTV
18:17 < cerkit> so, I have no idea of the pains.
18:17 <@sdodson> cerkit: I consider it a house of cards because there's no real technical merit to anything they're shipping beyond what's already instilled in it by Debian.
18:17 <@Dagmar> For just about every step of the installation and setup, if you installed the Ubuntu binaries, you had to go and *undo* what their packages did wrong and *then* do the right things.
18:18 < cerkit> sdodson: So you don't credit to them, the ease with which they've applied to the Debian structure?
18:19 <@sdodson> What have they applied?
18:19 < cerkit> Dagmar: On the whole, installing Linux, do you find Ubuntu to at least have taken some serious steps as compared to its counterparts?
18:19 <@Dagmar> Oh hell yes.
18:19 < cerkit> sdodson: thats what they have applied -- a structure that makes install that distro easier.
18:20 < cerkit> That alone is an innovation -- and a serious one, if you look at the history of most other Linux distros
18:20 < cerkit> none have been as sucessful
18:20 <@sdodson> Ok, contribution #2 that Ubuntu has made is improving the installer. I'll concede that.
18:20 < cerkit> Making Linux more available is pretty important innovation.
18:20 <@Dagmar> If you put a user who wasn't particularly pre-knowledgeable in front of two computers with no OS and gave them a Vista CD and an Ubuntu live CD, at the end of the first day they'd probably have thrown away the Vista CD and put Ubuntu on both.
18:21 <@Dagmar> If you put a user in front of computers with each already installed, they'd probably still be using the Ubuntu machine at the end of a week
18:21 < cerkit> I'm not saying they had a buttload of other good ideas afterward.
18:21 <@sdodson> I thought vista install was pretty much like three clicks.
18:21 < cerkit> And then three clicks to do anythign else, after you install
18:21 < cerkit> hahahahaha
18:21 < cerkit> "yes" i want
18:21 < cerkit> "yes" UAL
18:21 < cerkit> and the click to start it all
18:21 < cerkit> heh
18:21 <@Dagmar> Ubuntu and their devs working on other projects have done a *lot* of work getting HAL and udev and dbus all running in harmony
18:22 <@Dagmar> ...so that there's not nearly so much configuration to be done as used to be.
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18:22 <@juice> http://www.askmen.com/top_10/entertainment/top-10-twisted-torture-techniques_8.html
18:22 < cerkit> Dagmar: I use it in a project where I have to spin-up boxes as part of the use case of the software.
18:22 <@juice> yikes
18:22 <@Dagmar> Even for laptops there's probably at least a 90% chance it's going to figure out the right things to do
18:22 < cerkit> In other words, sometimes the software needs to make a new machine to run on it, by it self.
18:23 < cerkit> Ubuntu VMWARe images...
18:23 < cerkit> and their easy package management...
18:23 <@Dagmar> Yep.  I can see that.
18:23 < cerkit> make the images easily repurposable
18:23 < cerkit> if i need to shift one node of one type
18:23 < cerkit> to another
18:23 <@juice> crocodile shears keep those away from me
18:24 <@sdodson> Dagmar: Id on't think ubuntu has done any of the heavy lifting of udev, dbus, or hal.
18:24 < cerkit> Dagmar: if I have say, a node thats indexing the web, and it needs to just become a cache server...
18:24 <@Dagmar> Man I just about had a crisis of faith last year when I tried one of their Live CDs to "check my work" on the Dropline stuff
18:24 < cerkit> sdodson: You're probably right, but, the same people may have.
18:25 < cerkit> or some of them anyway
18:25 <@Dagmar> I was a wee bit angry that I pretty much threw the CD at my laptop and it set up everything correctly on the first go, where I'd spent about two hours getting Slackware set up right.
18:26 < cerkit> I really like it.  Its easy to where it removes the things I should not be wasting my time configuring.
18:26 < cerkit> But, hey, who knew it was developed by such a crew.
18:26 < cerkit> heh
18:26 <@Dagmar> That's the Endless September factor.
18:26 <@Dagmar> Take the user base as a whole, and you can't see the clued people because they're swimming in a sea of people who have an IQ of 100 or less.
18:27 < cerkit> Thats not very different from any other distribution of any other OS I've ever dealt with.
18:27 < cerkit> So.
18:27 <@Dagmar> The other communities are smaller.
18:27 < cerkit> Its not like just because someone knew Tru-64 they were somehow learned.
18:28 < cerkit> In fat
18:28 < cerkit> fact*
18:28 <@Dagmar> Like, Slackware's base is tiny, because most of the users are people won't don't exactly need a distro to begin with
18:28 < cerkit> I used to love Slackware.
18:28 <@Dagmar> ...all the completely lost people just went to using something else.
18:28 < cerkit> I went to something else.
18:28 < cerkit> But, back then it was Solaris x86
18:28 < cerkit> :)
18:29 <@Dagmar> 30 guys out of 5,000 is something you can just about see the whole of
18:29 <@Dagmar> 300 guys out of 200,000 is another matter entirely
18:29 < cerkit> Agreed.
18:29 < cerkit> I'm no expert on OSS communities either; like I saidbefore I tend not to mix.
18:30 < cerkit> Whenever I look into them, all I see are people arguing.
18:30 < cerkit> And thats not the kind of software projects I like to work on any more.
18:30 <@Dagmar> That's because they're probably not capable of "just doing it"
18:30 < cerkit> I never looked further, so, I'd defer to your knowledge.
18:30 <@Dagmar> Most of the people who get shit done seem to just put their arguments in comments.
18:31 < cerkit> I like to work on projects where the atmospheres open to kicking things around without all that ego.
18:31 < cerkit> Projects about the project, in other words, and not the people.
18:32 <@Dagmar> On an unrelated note, the Anonymous community completely fails.
18:32 < cerkit> Dagmar: Are you active in any OSS project?
18:32 <@Dagmar> certkit: Dropline GNOME.  As active as one can be at the moment
18:32 < cerkit> sdodson: Are you?
18:32 <@Dagmar> I also try to sort out the occasional Slacwkare user trying to do a MythTV box
18:33 < cerkit> Oh, lovely.
18:33 < cerkit> I'm read the Dropline about.
18:33 < cerkit> reading*
18:33 < cerkit> clear
18:33 < cerkit> I like the color scheme in the screenshots
18:33 < cerkit> It looks like frikken openwindows used to.
18:33 < cerkit> :)
18:34 < cerkit> Dagmar: So what do you work on specifically?
18:34 <@Dagmar> You "hack" into the email account of a US state governor who is currently being investigated for serious ethics violations, who happens to be using a public mail system which nicely avoids internal scrutiny and sunshine laws, *publicise* that you did it, but don't bother looking for any smoking guns that would keep such a person from obtaining an extremely more powerful position of political power?
18:34 < cerkit> any one part?
18:35 <@Dagmar> At least one half of that person's brain is just dead.
18:35 <@Dagmar> cerkit: Most of the time, 90% of the damn thing
18:35 < cerkit> wow.
18:35 < cerkit> Good work, then.
18:35 < cerkit> heh
18:35 < cerkit> Dagmar: Theres a bigger question in all this.
18:35 <@Dagmar> It's a lot of churn, and ther's some issues involving just installation I'm tired of dealing with so I'm trying very carefully to come up with permanent solutions for those before trying to make a new set of binaries
18:36 < cerkit> What kind of dumb bitch uses "popcorn" for a password?
18:36 <@Dagmar> Someone who isn't thinking very much about securiyt.
18:36 <@Dagmar> Someone who pretty much thinks that they're untouchable.
18:36 < cerkit> Do you know anything about the legailities of her using Yahoo for governership related stuff?
18:37 < cerkit> Is it illegal?
18:37 <@Dagmar> Which hey, when even possibile vigilantes might wander through the room without even blinking, might damn well be true
18:37 < cerkit> I realize its against the retention and other policies...
18:37 < cerkit> but, is it criminal?
18:37 <@Dagmar> cerkit: This is a good question.
18:37 <@Dagmar> It doesn't seem to be one anyone is *asking* tho
18:37 < cerkit> See, I don't know enough
18:37 < cerkit> I'd like to believe it is criminal
18:37 <@Dagmar> It certainly facilitates avoiding oversight committeews
18:38 < cerkit> Its the same thing as having a secret phone
18:38 < cerkit> I'm sure someone's been caught before
18:38 <@Dagmar> I have yet to see any serious work done on making people who do irresponsibily insecure things at work come back to haunt them in the form of penalties tho
18:39 <@Dagmar> Like, if a company loses a bunch of money over it, someone could get fired, but mainly it seems like such things are just ignored.
18:39 <@Dagmar> In this case, there would likely be a breach of law somewhere in there if there were actually discussions about her wanting to ruin her brother-in-law on that Yahoo account.
18:39 < cerkit> My personal opinion on that, is that, its a result of a cultural change, man.
18:40 < cerkit> We live in such a fast paced society, and the media does such a piss-poor, and usually slanting job, of seeking the truth for us.
18:40 < cerkit> We can't know enough to stay focused on the important shit.
18:40 <@Dagmar> We saw in the screenshot that she was discussing political stuff with other members of the Alaskan political circuit over completely non-state-run email facilities
18:40 < cerkit> Everythings boiled down to a sound byte.
18:41 < cerkit> Its haste.
18:41 < cerkit> It all happens in haste.
18:41 <@Dagmar> Maybe at least the prosecution in TrooperGate will have the sense to subpoena the information
18:41 <@Dagmar> ...I dont' have high hopes for that tho.
18:41 < cerkit> I can't imagine any of it matters, what fool would vote for that pair?
18:42 <@Dagmar> 700Mb of Media Sentry emails illustrating specific crimes they were engaging in, and nothing happens.
18:42 <@Dagmar> certkit: Religious fools.
18:42 <@Dagmar> People who'll vote for a woman just because she's a woman.
18:42 < cerkit> Even they have to pay for shit like we do, and have to see what these people have handed them economically.
18:42 <@Dagmar> basically, people who'll believe anything they see on TV.
18:43 < cerkit> Thats much more home-hitting.
18:43 <@Dagmar> The republicans have been floating arguments that couldn't stand up to a stiff breeze since just before the DNC
18:43 < cerkit> Thats the ultimate god.
18:43 < cerkit> Money.
18:43 <@Dagmar> ...and nothing but completely weak arguments.
18:43 <@sdodson> cerkit: Not really.
18:43 <@Dagmar> Palin is practically the living embodiment of one.
18:43 < cerkit> McCain slipped today I think.
18:43 < cerkit> About Spain or something?
18:43 <@Dagmar> They let him talk to the media?
18:43 <@sdodson> cerkit: I'm working on some puppet modules but that's about it.
18:43 < cerkit> And she's worth about 2 cents at the debates, I can't wait.
18:44 <@Dagmar> I thought they had pretty much put the brakes on that because he was making a fool of himself too often
18:44 < cerkit> Well, he's done it again, apparently.
18:44 <@Dagmar> jesus christ you have a point there
18:44 < cerkit> He got some countries mixed up
18:44 < cerkit> and was saying he would go to war with Spain or something
18:44 <@Dagmar> Palin vs Biden will be like watching toddlers fighting a sabertoothed tiger.
18:44 < cerkit> I wish it would be her and Obama
18:44 < cerkit> it would be delightful
18:45 <@Dagmar> That wouldn't even be fair.
18:45 < cerkit> I'd make POPCORN
18:45 <@Dagmar> Just feed babies to the tiger.
18:45 <@Dagmar> Sleeping babies.
18:45 < cerkit> sdodson: whats a puppet module?
18:46 < cerkit> Dagmar: let me see if I can find ya link on that McCain shit.
18:46 < cerkit> here
18:46 < cerkit> TIMEs, Pain in Spain falls Mainly on MCcain
18:46 < cerkit> hahahahaha
18:46 < cerkit> http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1842156,00.html
18:46 <@sdodson> cerkit: http://reductivelabs.com/projects/puppet/  I'm writing puppet modules for Red Hat cluster suite.
18:47 <@Dagmar> I can see Palin having to resort to "yo mamma" jokes to compete against Obama
18:47 < cerkit> sdodson: Oh dude, this is fucking lovely.
18:48 <@Dagmar> I can also see Obama losing his cool and reading her the riot act over trivializing the Constitution.
18:49 < cerkit> How in the fuck do they even expect to survive those debates?
18:50 < cerkit> Joe Biden could probably mop up after beating them both.
18:50 < cerkit> Obama could sit in the stands.
18:50 <@Dagmar> lol
18:51 < cerkit> sdodson: Thats a cool project.
18:52 <@Dagmar> *snerk*
18:52 <@Dagmar> "Spain can so strongly support a foreign policy opposed to the Bush doctrine (whatever that is), [...]
18:52 < cerkit> sdodson: I might look deeper into it. I'm working on related technologies.
18:53 < cerkit> Palin doesn't even know what the Bush Doctrine is.
18:53 <@sdodson> cerkit: puppet + cobbler = bliss
18:53 < cerkit> They asked her if she subscribed to it, and she said "what part?" I think.
18:53 < cerkit> hahahaha
18:54 <@Dagmar> "In what respect, Charlie?"
18:54 < cerkit> sdodson: Well, I'm working on building these minimal web indexes...
18:54 <@Dagmar> it was like watching a freshman who hadn't read the material get called on in class to answer a question
18:54 < cerkit> sdodson: and the nodes, they change around and perform vary taskings..
18:54 <@Dagmar> She was *so* painfully obviously trying to bullshit her way through it
18:54 < cerkit> Just put her name in YouTube.
18:54 < cerkit> lear
18:55 <@Dagmar> ...and then she used the horrifying phrase "by any means necessary"
18:55 < cerkit> She looks like an actress reading lines.
18:55 < cerkit> Its bad.
18:55 <@Dagmar> Basically, outlining that however paranoid they decided to be in Washington would dictate how totalitarian they would become.
18:56 <@Dagmar> cerkit: An acress reading lines would have had a clue.
18:56 < cerkit> I tried to to be objective in the beginning, because the media came out after her so strongly, and I trust the media about >.< that much, but once I saw her speak it was over.
18:57 <@sdodson> cerkit: I think cobbler will even manage ubuntu stuff.
18:57 <@Dagmar> Not to go for reductio ad absurdium, but I suspect if her "intelligences" told her that school students needed to be strip searched at random to check to see if they had any terorrists hidden up their asses, she's have it done all the way down to third grade within a month.
18:57 < cerkit> sdodson: I'll ccheck that out next.
18:57 <@sdodson> So use cobbler with external nodes support and puppet.
18:57 <@Dagmar> Being that she's a dominionist, separation of church and state are *fucked* if she gets in
18:58 < cerkit> sdodson: what do you think of Palin?
18:58 <@Dagmar> We'd be a totalitarian/theocratic state by the time her term would be up
18:58 <@Dagmar> ...and then no better than the fucking extremists
18:58 < cerkit> Dagmar: I can't imagine she has the ability to orchestrate that much change, president or not.
18:59 < cerkit> Somewhere along the line someone would haul off and slap her down.
18:59 <@sdodson> Man, it's entirely impossible to fake out a cat like you can a dog.
18:59 <@sdodson> when playing fetch
18:59 <@sdodson> cerkit: I'd hit it.
18:59 < cerkit> Like "alright chimp, back to the zoo"
18:59 <@sdodson> cerkit: Otherwise I gotta go do some work.
18:59 <@sdodson> my phone is glowing with new tickets for me to work
19:00 <@Dagmar> Bush handed out completely illegal orders right and left.
19:00 <@Evilpig>  Dagmar http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9879687891&sid=1&pageNo=25#483
19:00 <@Dagmar> Cheney was probably guiding him in it, but he did it and was almost never even challenged on it
19:00 < cerkit> That might have had something to do with Cheney though too
19:00 < cerkit> hehehe
19:01 <@Dagmar> So either way, that's not going to be new ground Palin's trodding on
19:01 < cerkit> and Rove
19:01 < cerkit> and Rumsfeld
19:01 < cerkit> and his whole fucking G-Unit
19:01 <@Dagmar> She's going to have that old boy network helping her
19:01 <@Dagmar> Evilpig: Sokay, PTRs are still a bit hosed, too.
19:01 < cerkit> Nah, I think their out of business now either way
19:01 < cerkit> the lot of them
19:02 <@Dagmar> cerkit: Explain to me how the fuck the polls have The Old Man From The Sea and Obama on almost equal footing now tho
19:02 < cerkit> Kucinich is fit to have their nuts in the evidence room
19:02 <@Evilpig> they claim to have fixed ours
19:02 <@Evilpig> ptr is still shit
19:02 <@Dagmar> Are they rigging the surveys now or are there really THAT many stupid people who have land lines?
19:02 < cerkit> My guess is, they take a small enough sample
19:02 <@Dagmar> Tehre's a huge desynch between what these polls are saying, and what most clued people are saying.
19:02 < cerkit> that its always close
19:03 <@rhia> Dagmar: there really are that many stupid people with land lines
19:04 < cerkit> there are a lot of dumb people "."
19:04 < cerkit> when I walk out of every morning...
19:04 <@Dagmar> EVery day I'm glad I work for a .edu
19:04 < cerkit> I whisper to myself "I see dumb people."
19:05 < cerkit> Dagmar: I've been working for an .edu now for a while myself.
19:05 < cerkit> They're cheap.
19:05 <@Dagmar> Yes, but does the need for more lawyers and doctors go away?
19:06 < cerkit> I never need very many of either of those.
19:06 <@Dagmar> Vandy *makes* lawyers and doctros.
19:06 < cerkit> But, working in a converted sorority on sorority row
19:06 < cerkit> is ool
19:06 < cerkit> cool
19:06 <@Dagmar> I can deal with cheap, when I means I don't have to worry about all my company's VC money going away or something
19:06 < cerkit> I'm surrounded by 19 year old girls.
19:07 < cerkit> My job has some perks.
19:07 <@Dagmar> I'm on Vandy campus.
19:07 <@Dagmar> I keep my hands to myself.
19:07 <@Dagmar> :0
19:07 < cerkit> This year, "I" will have placed something like 5000 students in their classes.
19:08 < cerkit> my software, anyway.
19:08 <@Dagmar> Ah good
19:08 < cerkit> And many, many more
19:08 < cerkit> as the years go on.
19:08 < cerkit> That sort of leaves you with a good feeling.
19:09 < cerkit> I might put the kid who cures Caner, in the right classes to do it.
19:09 < cerkit> :P
19:09 < cerkit> cancer*
19:09 < cerkit> I'm retarded.
19:09 < cerkit> I might typo and fucking ruin his chances too, apparently.
19:10 <@Dagmar> Book banning.  *shudder*
19:10 <@Dagmar> http://econ4obama.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-wanted-to-ban-books-from-town.html
19:10 < cerkit> Dag, the way I heard that was, she called a library asking about some books.
19:10 < cerkit> She never told anyone to ban anything.
19:10 <@Evilpig> I think we should ban books.  all of them.  they are the root of people thinking forthemselves.  and we can't have that
19:11 < cerkit> Dag, some website took the top 20 Palin stories and ended up debunking half and proving the others
19:11 < cerkit> or some thing like that.
19:11 < cerkit> maybe it was the top 10
19:11 <@Dagmar> 5 would be too many
19:11 < cerkit> Well, she has a lot to talk about.
19:12 <@rhia> she repeatedly asked the librarian how she 'could' go about banning books, then tried to fire the librarian when she didn't like the answers
19:12 < cerkit> rhia: I heard that too
19:12 < cerkit> But she never asked to ban any actual books
19:12 <@rhia> right
19:12 <@Dagmar> It's improper to even be asking about that.
19:13 <@Dagmar> It's like saying it's fine if someone's asking how one would go about sodomizing school children, so long as they didn't mention any specific schoolchildren.
19:13 < cerkit> Improper is not a bad adjective for her at all.
19:13 <@Dagmar> Banning books is not a conversation that should have even been brought up in that meeting.
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19:14 < cerkit> Here's a question for anybody to field...
19:15 < cerkit> If she was 180 lbs,  and 48, would we be even having this discussion?
19:15 < cerkit> If she wasn't hot...
19:16 < cerkit> There would have been no media attention for her.
19:16 < cerkit> And no pop for McCain's numbers.
19:16 <@Dagmar> I think we would.
19:16 < cerkit> It would all still probably be unknown.
19:16 <@Dagmar> She's cute, yes, but the media have been spending the last week and half having an epic chain of "Wait... wat?" moments every time Palin opens her mouth.
19:16 <@rhia> she was picked for her political malleability and devoutness to both god and party (to get the neocon's religious right back supporting them)
19:16 < cerkit> If she wasn't hot, she would have gotten picked apart at people's leisure.
19:17 <@Dagmar> It's like a dog that wants to eat a meatball the size of a car.
19:17 <@Dagmar> They can't figure out where to begin to properly define the madness that is Palin as V.P., so they're just nipping at it in random places and freaking outl.
19:17 < cerkit> I think if McCain wins...
19:18 <@Dagmar> We are fucked.
19:18 < cerkit> I'll go all liquid, and move out of the US.
19:18 <@rhia> if she wasn't cute, she may have gotten a bit heavier treatment
19:18 <@Dagmar> Charlie Gibson was throwing her softball pitches for instance.
19:18 <@Dagmar> What did he get for his trouble?
19:18 <@Dagmar> Some serious crazy-talk.
19:18 < cerkit> I can't imagine a US
19:18 < cerkit> with McCain in Office
19:18 <@Dagmar> You look at her and she's talking crazy, so you go in closer, and you just get more crazy talk.
19:18 < cerkit> and the economy like this
19:20 <+MaxieZ> So I just learned a new word
19:20 <+MaxieZ> Incorrent
19:20 < cerkit> Dagmar: you know they're all camped out tonight, right?
19:20 < cerkit> Bernanke
19:20 < cerkit> Paulson
19:20 <+MaxieZ> I found that I had entered an incorrent username and password for a script
19:20 < cerkit> the congressional leadership...
19:20 <+MaxieZ> and then I googled and found it's a common word
19:20 <@Dagmar> cerkit: Camped out why?
19:21 <@rhia> to try to stop or at least slow down this fiscal trainwreck
19:21 <@Dagmar> I would be calling that an "all-nighter"
19:21 < cerkit> Dagmar: To stop the second Great Depression
19:21 < cerkit> Bush's real legay
19:21 <@Dagmar> Too used to "camped out" meaning people are just passively waiting for something
19:21 < cerkit> legacy
19:21 <@Dagmar> Yeah he's fucked things up good
19:22 < cerkit> Dagmar: Well, they're meeting throughout the night.
19:22 < cerkit> Its unusual.
19:22 < cerkit> So, I used camped out
19:22 <@Dagmar> I was hearing hte word "Trillion" being thrown about yesterday
19:22 <@Dagmar> ...with an S on the end.
19:23 < cerkit> Wouldn't surprise me.  The Shadow Banking System, underneath the otherwise well known one, was 4 to as much as 7 times its size.
19:24 < cerkit> The US mortgage book has a value of $12 trillion
19:25 <@Dagmar> I think they should just start throwing suits in jail, personally.
19:25 < cerkit> If you figure the toxicity
19:25 < cerkit> $12 trillion?
19:25 < cerkit> 4 - 7
19:25 < cerkit> phew.
19:25 < cerkit> Bernanke should just go back to the presses.
19:26 < cerkit> That motherfucker should be showing up to meetings with ink on his fingers.
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19:27 < cerkit> we've seen 20-60% slides across the US, and as a result, we've dumped into $800 billion locally, and much much outside the US.
19:27 < cerkit> much more*
19:28 < cerkit> They gave AIG 85 billion with a "b"
19:28 < cerkit> JP Morgan took Bear Stearns and 30 billion with a "b"
19:28 < cerkit> We..
19:28 < cerkit> took mortgage backed securities as collateral
19:28 < cerkit> (we the taxpayer)
19:29 < cerkit> You're witnessing nothing short of the end of most of the entire investment banking industry
19:29 < cerkit> this week, welost Merill and Lehman
19:29 < cerkit> We already lost Bear Stearns
19:30 < cerkit> err
19:30 < cerkit> noy Merill
19:30 < cerkit> Morgan.
19:30 < cerkit> And we lost Freddie and Fannie the week before.
19:30 <@rhia> what's the deal with 'we bail you out, we gain control'?
19:31 < cerkit> rhia: they use taxpayer money, to buy a majority stake of equity at a discount.
19:31 < cerkit> thereby putting a voting majority, but not ownership, on the US balance sheet
19:31 < cerkit> this way, the US maintains its triple A credit rating
19:31 < cerkit> and can save things to the tune of 100s of billions
19:32 < cerkit> so
19:32 < cerkit> we all have AIG stock
19:32 < cerkit> in a roundabout sorta way :)
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19:34 < cerkit> the number by the way, was 180 billion, in overseas.
19:34 < cerkit> so, 980 billion out of the Federal Reserve in less than a year.
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19:35 <@rhia> numbers that large seem surreal ..... or should that be obscene?
19:35 < cerkit> The Federal Reserve on Thursday nearly quadrupled the dollars it provides to foreign central banks as part of a coordinated effort to inject liquidity into the global financial system.
19:35 < cerkit> All told, the Fed increased the amount of dollars available under the agreements by $180 billion to $247 billion.
19:36 < cerkit> from: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D939C5085.htm
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19:44 <@Jagobah> hey its cerkit
19:47 < cerkit> 'tis I!
19:47 < cerkit> :)
19:50 <@Catonic> yawen
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20:02 <@dc0de> evenin all
20:08  * shadowmoss glomps dc0de 
20:16 <@dc0de> sup shadowmoss ?
20:16 <@dc0de> get me a job!
20:16 <@Jagobah> ;o
20:16 <@dc0de> I'm on the street...
20:16 <@Evilpig>  she has a job for you.
20:16 <@dc0de> Evilpig it has to make me $$$$
20:17 <@Evilpig> that's it?  just walk down the street naked.  carry a jar that says "$1000 and I put my pants on and go home"
20:17 <@dc0de> Evilpig yeah, ok... how about one that doesn't involve going to jail?
20:18 <@Evilpig> out of ideas here
20:18 <@Evilpig> where a piece of cloth to hide the illegal bits
20:19 <@shadowmoss> dc0de: really out of a job??
20:19 <@dc0de> shadowmoss yes... last thursday, 9/11
20:19 <@shadowmoss> sigh
20:19  * shadowmoss hugs dc0de 
20:19 <@dc0de> got sent out with two others...
20:19 <@dc0de> first of the cuts...
20:19 <@dc0de> more tomorrow...
20:19 <@shadowmoss> hmmm, know anything about setting up corporate (small) travel?
20:20 <@dc0de> I think the company is going down the tube.
20:20 <@shadowmoss> our travel guy just quit
20:20 <@dc0de> no, I use Boehme travel in Norcross for all that.
20:21 <@shadowmoss> well, check out westar.com, and if you see anything you like (you'd have to relocate...) put me down as referring employee
20:21 <@shadowmoss> and tell me and I'll see what I can find out
20:21 <@shadowmoss> with prior military experience you have points on your side
20:22 <@shadowmoss> HSV has positions open I think in IT
20:22 <@dc0de> shadowmoss I'll take a peek...
20:22 <@shadowmoss> our corporate office is in hsv
20:23 <@dc0de> cool...
20:23 <@dc0de> Catonic would hate that.
20:23 <@shadowmoss> :)
20:25 <@dc0de> heh, I'm writing the MOAR...
20:25 <@dc0de> the Mother of All Resumes
20:42 <@shadowmoss> guess I should start getting ready to go camping tomorrow
20:42 <@shadowmoss> I'll be in Hot Springs, NC for the weekend
20:44 <@sdodson> wher's that?
20:45 <@dc0de> shadowmoss that sounds like a nice time... supposed to be a decent weekend...
20:46 < AstralSin> anyone here good with joins in TransactSQL?
20:47 <@dc0de> AstralSin I used to do Joins in MSSQL and Oracle...
20:47 < AstralSin> care to give me a bit of a hand?
20:47 <@dc0de> AstralSin I'll try... whatcha trying to do?
20:48 < AstralSin> lemme see if i can explain this, i've got a query written that does ALMOST what i need, 1 sec
20:48 <@dc0de> pastebin
20:48 < AstralSin> k
20:53 < AstralSin> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163
20:53 <@dc0de> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163
20:53 <@scort> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163
20:53 <@brimstone> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163
20:53 <+MaxieZ> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163
20:54 < AstralSin> bunch o conformist pigs
20:54 <@brimstone> i just follow the crowd
20:54 <@dc0de> heh
20:54 <+MaxieZ> You lost me at join
20:54 <@dc0de> AstralSin what is the database?
20:55 < AstralSin> SQL Server 2000
20:55 <@brimstone> you had me at SELECT
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20:55 <@dc0de> are you trying to do this in one command? or will three suffice?
20:55 < AstralSin> 3 will do
20:55 < AstralSin> well
20:55 < AstralSin> no
20:55 <@dc0de> I would do what you put in there...
20:55 <@dc0de> doh
20:55 < AstralSin> i need all the data in a single dataset
20:55 < AstralSin> well, 3 might do, i will be using it in a c# program eventually
20:56 < AstralSin> it'll just be more work later
20:56 <+MaxieZ> Why not do a where statement?
20:56 <+MaxieZ> Like where AddressDevice.DeviceType = Fax or AddressDevice.DeviceType = Email or AddressDevice.DeviceType = tty
20:56 -!- Tuttle| is now known as Alfred_MacGuffin
20:56 < AstralSin> because i need to put all 3 of those values in a single line
20:57 < AstralSin> in a specific place in the line
20:57 <@dc0de> Ok, Join AddressDevice ON (Location.LocationAddress=addressDevice.AddressID) WHERE AddressDevice.DeviceType(TTY) OR AddressDevice.DeviceType(Email)
20:57 <@dc0de> OR AddressDevice.DeviceType(Fax)
20:57 <@dc0de> in your WHERE clause, simply use OR statements.
20:58 < AstralSin> wait, how do i define which data is where in my select statement?
20:58 < AstralSin> AddressDevice.Address(TTY) <-- that doesn't work does it? :)
20:58 < AstralSin> i just put the () there for reference
20:58 <@dc0de> There is a way in SQL to create pseudonyms for the Joined Tables, then you can refer to them...
20:58 <@dc0de> hold... let me find it.
21:00 <@sdodson> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163
21:00 <+eryc> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163
21:00 <@sdodson> eryc: you loser!
21:00 <@scort> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163
21:00 <@dc0de> AstralSin check this out...
21:00 <+eryc> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163
21:01 <@dc0de> http://bytes.com/forum/thread79683.html
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21:02 <@scort> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/d2d55b163 me irl
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21:03 < AstralSin> hm, i may be able to use that, thanks dc0de
21:03 <@scort> http://www.snotr.com/video/972
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21:06 <@dc0de> AstralSin what type of field is AddressDevice.DeviceType?
21:06 <@dc0de> VarChar? text? memo?
21:09 <+eryc> http://roflrazzi.com/2008/09/16/mr-t-i-pity-the-foo/
21:10 <@dc0de> AstralSin http://astralsin.pastebin.com/m4a4a8b5a
21:13 < AstralSin> syntax error on that, unfortunately
21:13 <@dc0de> what's the error?
21:13 < AstralSin> hold on, i'm actually doing this on a 2005 server, lemme do it on a 2000 server
21:13 <@dc0de> I'm sure I have a typo somewhere.
21:13 < AstralSin> line 4, incorrect syntax near '='
21:13 <@dc0de> well, the Join <tablename> as <alias> should work...
21:14 <@dc0de> ahh, I see, what type of field is the A.DeviceType? what values does it hold?
21:14 <@dc0de> are they numeric? text? varchar? etc?
21:16 < AstralSin> varchar
21:16 <@dc0de> ok... hold one.
21:16 < AstralSin> well, lemme be sure
21:16 < AstralSin> yeah, varchar
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21:22 <@Dagmar> Okay, so I'm done with IndyMedia
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21:22 <@I-MOD> yeah?
21:22 <@I-MOD> already?
21:22 <+MxZBot> already is even
21:22 <@Dagmar> My polite and reasonable post to the us editors list was rejected.
21:22 <@Dagmar> So, next time they want to let little kiddies be dicks and censor posts, I will not be putting on kid gloves for it.
21:23 <@Dagmar> I'll fucking code up captcha breakers the next goddamn day and spam their entire forum with it
21:23 <@Dagmar> Fuck being "nice" to hypocrites.
21:23 <@I-MOD> time for hypertext rape?
21:24 <@dc0de> AstralSin SELECT L.LocationAddress, L.ContactName, L.StreetNumber, L.StreetName, L.Address2, L.City, L.State, L.Zip, L.Zip4, L.IsResidence, L.County, L.Longitude, L.Latitude, A.Address(Fax),A.Address(TTY), L.IsListed,  A.Address(Email), A.DeviceType
21:24 <@dc0de> FROM Location AS L JOIN AddressDevice AS A ON L.LocationAddress=A.AddressId
21:24 <@dc0de> WHERE (upper(A.DeviceType="FAX") OR upper(A.DeviceType="EMAIL") OR upper(A.DeviceType="TTY");
21:24 <@dc0de> doh
21:24 < AstralSin> fail
21:25 <@dc0de> http://astralsin.pastebin.com/m366bc35
21:25 <@dc0de> try getting ONE value
21:26 <@Dagmar> I-MOD: More like "no more mister nice guy"
21:26 <@Dagmar> I was *nice* by letting them *think* they could just keep censoring posts and that no one would mind.
21:26 <@Dagmar> Censorship is bad.
21:26 <@Dagmar> Censorship coming from a group who gets most of their cred from being about "open publishing" is hypocracy.
21:26 <@Dagmar> Hypocracy is *extra* bad.
21:27 < AstralSin> dc0de: lemme work with that query a minute, i think its close but not quite there
21:27 <@Dagmar> I'm sure me sending an email to them saying "Okay so I guess this is the end of the chain of possible redress.  Next time I won't be putting on kid gloves to be nice to people." will be construed as a minor threat
21:27 <@Dagmar> So I'll be a dick and post that to memestreams as well.
21:27 <@Dagmar> Anyone comes sniffing around, I'll direct them to the Memestreams article.
21:28 <@Dagmar> ....which will be sporting the line of sed that breaks their captchas.
21:28 <@Dagmar> I'm a hacker.  I can talk about vulnerabilities in public systems and mock them all I damn well please when there's no monetary loss.
21:28 <@I-MOD> lol
21:29 <@Dagmar> I genuinely tried to be nice and come to an understanding with them.
21:29 <@Dagmar> This isn't a case of "Dagmar wanted to be a hardass"
21:29 <@Dagmar> They gotta share the internets with me.
21:29 <@I-MOD> it's a case of "they forced Dagmar to be a hardass"
21:30 <@Dagmar> I'm not going to just stop using the internet or something, and I'm sure they'll wind up coming up in a Google search for something at some other future point.
21:30 <@Dagmar> ...and I'm pretty sure when someone googles "Indymedia editorial policy" they're probably going to come across my blog posts.
21:31 <@rattle> This is my WTF moment of the day.. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/databases/2007/07/12/getting-started-with-mysql-proxy.html?page=3
21:31 < AstralSin> dc0de: got that one working, took the (Fax), (TTY), and (Email) out of the SELECT clause, it now gets some data but of course fills in the same data for those 3 fields
21:32 <@Dagmar> rattle: Does it have something to do with WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY USING LUA?
21:32 <@rattle> There are a few levels here dag..
21:32 <@Dagmar> Whose fucking shell runs lua?
21:32 <@rattle> Oh, it gets better.
21:32 <@rattle> That's an example of how to make mysql-proxy execute shell commands.
21:32 <@Dagmar> Why is there a ... is that a shark operating a patch board?
21:33 <@rattle> The shark is directing SQL sessions around between different backend SQL servers.
21:33 <@rattle> It allows you to rewrite queries.  That's neat.
21:34 <@Dagmar> Some people call that a MITM attack.
21:34 <@rattle> It's also a good way to separate read and write queries.  And that's neat.
21:34 <@Dagmar> *boggle*
21:34 <@rattle> Apparently, you can also write stuff so you can query shells in SQL..
21:34 <@rattle> Normally, we call things like that exploits.
21:34 <@rattle> This is actually a situation were it's designed to be a feature.  You know, something you can do.
21:34 <@Dagmar> yes the entire thing is an assortment of stuff that would normally be bad
21:35 <@Dagmar> You're sure this isn't a joke site?
21:35 <@rattle> And the idea of that is making my head explode.
21:35 <@rattle> No, this is serious stuff Dagmar.
21:35 <@Dagmar> I know it's serious, but it's also pretty trivial
21:35 < AstralSin> damn, still doesn't *quite* work right, but getting closer
21:35 < AstralSin> dc0de: thanks man, i owe you one
21:35 <@rattle> And I'm not sure if it was written with a sense of humor.  This may be straight.
21:35 <@rattle> If not, they should have had it read the password file.
21:35 <@rattle> That, would have been kind of funny.
21:36 <@Dagmar> I dunno man.  I think calling lua is pretty funny.
21:37 <@Dagmar> So umm...
21:37 <@Dagmar> Down in the middle is last_planet.sh
21:37 <@Dagmar> A sane man would wonder "Why can't this be run on some other server, with my own credentials?"
21:38 <@rattle> mysql-proxy is pretty neat.
21:39 <@rattle> I don't think it's a shark.
21:39 <@rattle> I think it's a dick nose dolphin.  It's a new logo species.
21:39 <@Dagmar> What's *any* of the crazytalk got to do with mysql-proxy tho
21:40 <@Dagmar> Wait, I get it
21:40 <@Dagmar> The author of this thing spends a bit too much time using "other people's" mysql servers I think
21:41 <@Dagmar> Like, each and every example he gives is just a millimeter away from being "something you shoudln't be doing"
21:41 <@Dagmar> Like >< that close to it
21:42 <@rattle> Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying..
21:43 <@Dagmar> The last part of that page is a double-haha
21:44 <@Dagmar> Like, "hey once you've gotten into the sql server and would like more credentials, here's how to set up a logger to log otehr people's queries"
21:45 <@Dagmar> Maybe it was an ubuntu user responsible fo rthta
21:45 <@Dagmar> It's gonna get passwords and usernames
21:46 <@Dagmar> *sigh*
21:46 <@Dagmar> ANyway, coffee calls
21:53 <@dc0de> AstralSin no problem... happy to help
21:59 <+eryc> http://www.popgive.com/2008/09/how-to-make-sure-no-one-eats-your.html
22:00 <@scort> man i pasted that in here a few days ago
22:00 <@scort> dont claim credit for that one eryc
22:03 <@scort> http://ablk.com/r8.html wtf is the point of this
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22:05 <+eryc> ha
22:06 <@scort> this is a new site
22:06 <@scort> http://ablk.com/s8.html the first bittorrent
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22:31 <@aestetix> man
22:31 <@aestetix> the news for Palin keeps getting worse and worse
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22:35 <+eryc> http://ablk.com/img/s2.jpg
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22:44 <@SkyDog_> NotLarry: You working tonight?
22:44 <+eryc> http://ablk.com/img/ta.jpg
22:45 <@someninjamaster> i say shopped
22:46 <@ladymerlin> nope
22:46 <@ladymerlin> not shopped
22:46 <@ladymerlin> that guy is nuts
22:46 <@ladymerlin> ive met him and my dad knows him and has jumped with him
22:47 <@someninjamaster> ladymerlin: its more than nuts its deathwish
22:47 <@ladymerlin> you should se that other stuff hes done
22:47 <@someninjamaster> http://ablk.com/h.html israeli chicks ftw
22:48 <@someninjamaster> http://ablk.com/s.html
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23:09 <@rhia> "Let me break it down for you. Obama is 47, McCain is 72. If you are 47 or younger, you can expect to live another 30 years. ALL of McCain's policies are based on him being safely dead by the time we starve and kill each other on the streets as a consequence of his policies."   http://cnbcsucks.wordpress.com/
23:09 <@rhia> a wee bit opinionated there <G>
23:10 <@sdodson> They have opinions on the Internet?
23:10 <@scort> they're only stupid opinions
23:11 <@sdodson> scort: what's up bro man?
23:11 <@scort> not much main dawg word g
23:11 <@sdodson> ok, stfu now
23:12 <@scort> awww c'mon
23:12 <@ShadowHntr> hey question
23:12 <@ShadowHntr> how's the neighborhood around lipscomb university
23:12 <@ShadowHntr> ghetto? decent neighborhood?
23:12 <@ShadowHntr> i'm browsing craigslist for rooms to sublet
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23:19 <@SkyDog_> Pay your debts, then find a room.
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23:19 <@scort> ouch
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23:20 <@Evilpig> SkyDog_: ribeye's good for you?
23:21 <@SkyDog_> Evilpig: Sounds good to me. When?
23:21 <@Evilpig> next weekend when we aren't eating bbq
23:21 <@scort> "fuck you, pay me"
23:21 <@SkyDog_> Evilpig: Deal.
23:24 <@Evilpig> I swear to god.  if you try to put my desk setup in your car.  i'll break your hands
23:26 <@SkyDog_> Heh. Pass. I will put down a towel and sit in your chair for a few minutes...
23:30 <@someninjamaster> wow microsoft fails with another commercial
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 19 00:00:13 2008