--- Log opened Tue Sep 16 00:00:13 2008
00:11 <@scort> http://www.skforlee.com/independent_work/lunch_bag.html sfw
00:12 <@aestetix> polerin: they aren't?
00:19 <@aestetix> I'm debating whether I should take a dump, or keep farting in front of the fan so my roommate has to suffer.
00:22 <@brimstone> is your walkman on?
00:28 <@polerin> aestetix: you're the one who asked why :P
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02:16 <@Catonic> ..
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06:37 <@rattle> Good morning hax0rs.
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07:10 <@brimstone> hi rattle
07:13 <@I-MOD> this weather is fricking awesome
07:17 <@Shadow404> can i go home now?
07:17 <@Shadow404> I-MOD: what weather?
07:19 <@I-MOD> it's 60 degrees out side right now
07:19 <@I-MOD> and was for a good portion of yesterday
07:19 <@Shadow404> welcome to beginning of fall season
07:19 <@I-MOD> or the result of hurricaines
07:20 <@Shadow404> yeah, hey, bring GA rain
07:20 <@Shadow404> or we could still your water more?
07:20 <@I-MOD> still? yes, steal? no
07:21 <@Shadow404> steal
07:21 <@brimstone> english is hard isn't it?
07:21 <@Shadow404> brimstone: diaf
07:21 <@Shadow404> thats all i need to know
07:21 <@aestetix> has anyone read Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom?
07:22 <@aestetix> Cause I am 1/4 through it..... and have found it gimmicky and distracting to read, at best.
07:22 <@Shadow404> then throw the book in a fire with brimstone
07:22 <@aestetix> It's a huge disappointment after reading Little Brother
07:22 <@Shadow404> 2 birds, one stone if you know what i mean
07:24 <@aestetix> No. I have no idea what kind of nonsubtle comment you might be making.
07:25 <@I-MOD> commentary? from Shadow404? absurd!
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07:33 <@Shadow404> I-MOD: diaf
07:33 <@Shadow404> i have more commentary via my inner dialog than anyone else, so bleh
07:45 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
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08:03 <@Shadow404> hehe, i like how gmail blocks .zip files, but if you rename it to .abc it has no problem
08:04 <@oddball> it blocks .zip files?
08:05 <@Shadow404> yeah, for "security reasons"
08:11 <@oddball> wow... I thought it just scanned the files for viruses.
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08:18 <@I-MOD> so use tarballs? or .rars?
08:19 <@brimstone> or rarballs!
08:20  * oddball has come to hate .rar with a passion.  Of course, that's mostly due to people chopping up movies into a zillion rar files, then setting up bitttorrents with them as one big chunk.
08:20 <@Shadow404> durka, of course installing a vnc client on a machine your vnc'ed into already is gonna kick you out when the drivers initialize, great just great
08:23 <@Shadow404> heh, Dear Remote Colo Tech, please press ok on box-bla for me. Thx
08:32 <@Dolemite> lrn2oob
08:32 <@Shadow404> oob?
08:33 <@Dolemite> out of band
08:33 <@Shadow404> heh, the tech (internal company) left a gimp image with "your welcome" in cursive
08:33 <@Shadow404> yeah, welll the installer used the default ports, gotta go in and change them later
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08:40 <@Shadow404> is there a cisco vpn client for linux?
08:40 <@Dolemite> yes
08:41 <@Shadow404> ok, ill google for it then
08:42 <@Shadow404> ah, sweet
08:42 <@Shadow404> if i can get this to work from home, i could be able to work 3 days at home instead of just 2
08:43 <@brimstone> boo cisco
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08:44 <@Shadow404> damn, power on lan is mia for the ubuntu box or it hung on startup
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08:49 <@Jagobah> hey shadow
08:49 <@Jagobah> you have any experience with ultravnc?
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09:01 <@GodFix> http://www.randomjoke.com/topic/nerd.php?28304
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09:14 <+MaxieZ> Good morning to you all.
09:18 <@brimstone> hi
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09:32 < eryc> http://lol-cock.ytmnd.com/
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09:41 <@nachoguy> mr0nin
09:42 <@unixfag> good morning
09:46 < wrench> mornin. booya!
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10:09 <@GodFix> what's a good noun beginning with G that could logiclaly and easily preceed "Operations Deamon"
10:09 <@Corydon76-dig> General
10:09 <@Corydon76-dig> and it's "Daemon"
10:09 <+MaxieZ> I prefer Global
10:09 <@GodFix> yeah, I just mistyped it here
10:10 <+MaxieZ> Going for the god idea...general sounds a bit unimpressive
10:10 <@Corydon76-dig> "Ground Operations"?
10:10 <@GodFix> I'm tweaking my e-mail signature and want to make my functional description/job title G* Operations Daemon
10:10 <+MaxieZ> That might work
10:10 <@GodFix> and see how many ppl get it
10:11 <@Corydon76-dig> Instead of Daemon, why not Director?
10:11 <@GodFix> cuz that would bring down HR havoc
10:12 <@Dolemite> Because if he's not actually a director with the company then that would potentially get him into trouble, and could constitute fraud.
10:12 <@GodFix> and I'm more Daemon than Director
10:12 <+MaxieZ> Yeah...if it was a title, General Operations Directory sounds right
10:12 <+MaxieZ> Director rather :)
10:12 <+MaxieZ> I'm a "Director"
10:12 <+MaxieZ> Director of Technical Operations is my title
10:13 <@GodFix> We don't really fit our HR job titles here
10:13 <@GodFix> mine is technically PC Support Tech
10:14 <@Dolemite> Of course, size of the company affects how seriously people take titles
10:14 <@GodFix> but I'm typically neck deep in switch and VMWare,
10:14 <@Dolemite> Someone can send me their resume with "Director of Technology" on it, but if they worked for a <50 person company then it goes on the stack with "I fix computers in my garage."
10:15 <@Evilpig> my title changes weekly
10:15 <@GodFix> this company, it can vary if you want to look at it locally or globally
10:15 <@GodFix> on the corporate level, it's like 20K+ ppl
10:15 <+MaxieZ> Dolemite: We have less than 50 people...and I hardly fix computers in a garage
10:16 <+MaxieZ> Actually, I manage people more than anything.
10:16 <@Dolemite> MaxieZ : Yes, but being "Director of Technology" for that size of a company means a lot less than being a director at a 20,000+ employee multi-national.
10:16 <@Dolemite> Title becomes a non-factor in a company that size
10:18 <+MaxieZ> I wouldn't argue that title is less relevant
10:18 <@Dolemite> What you actually do is the only thing important in that situation
10:19 <@Evilpig> <-- grunt   does it all
10:20 <@Dementia> I think Evilpig should say "Work Complete!" when he finishes something, and trundle away.
10:20 <@Drag0n> "whatyouwantmetobuild?"
10:21 <@Evilpig> I might start doing that
10:22 <@Evilpig> work done
10:22 <@Evilpig> okay
10:22 <@Evilpig> dabbu
10:22 <@Dementia> hehe
10:22 <@Evilpig> QUIT POKING ME!
10:22 < eryc> lol
10:23 <@Dementia> You could also paint yourself green and wear animal skins to work. At the very least, on Halloween. It'd be a hit.
10:23 <@Evilpig> tghey wouldn't get it
10:23 <@Evilpig> the other techs would.
10:25 < eryc> you ogre now evilpig
10:26 < eryc> "but i have comcast digitial voice!"
10:26 < eryc> sorry evilpig, you ogre now
10:27 <@Evilpig> damnit I am gonna have to go over to this accountant's office.  somehow a virus is going through their smtp server from korea
10:28 <@Dolemite> He needs to dress as Evilpig this halloween.  Cow head, giant shoulderpads and all.
10:28 <@Dolemite> and, of course, a 5' tall sword
10:28 <@Evilpig> haha
10:28 <@Evilpig> on the PTR I have two giant ass swords
10:28 <@Dementia> that would be classic
10:28 <@Evilpig> alright I have to go take care of this.  i'll be back later
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10:38 < eryc> At least 13 common drugs, including caffeine, several antibiotics, antidepressants and substances that lower human cholesterol levels, were found in test samples of the Tennessee River, according to a study.
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11:03 < M0j0-j0j0> eryc: that's nothing.. you should see all the cool stuff they found in my pee.
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11:58 < ware> noobs
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12:11 <@polerin> bleh
12:11 <@polerin> need moar coffee.
13:06 <@Catonic> feck
13:06 <@Catonic> must stop sleeping until noon.
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13:31 <@Dolemite> University School of Nashville Burninates!
13:31 <@Corydon76-dig> eh?
13:31 <@Corydon76-dig> Is that who owns it now?
13:32 <@Dolemite> Large plume of smoke is billowing forth from there.
13:32 <@Corydon76-dig> Dolemite: the old Mario's restaurant is on fire
13:33 <@Dolemite> ah
13:33 <@Dolemite> it looked like USN
13:33 <@Corydon76-dig> ~minilink http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080916/NEWS03/80916037
13:33 <+MxZBot> http://maxiez.com/l/tennessean.com/6kIoZ
13:33 <@critch> http://wtvf.images.worldnow.com/images/incoming/skycam/vandycam1An10.jpg
13:33 <@Dolemite> Yeah, I've been waiting on the news websites to update
13:33 <@Dolemite> I just got the thing to provide new content
13:38 <@critch> heh, I love that the pics the tennessean put together for that article start with the fire in 2006
13:48 <@arafatm> SkyDog_: got a sec?
13:51 <@SkyDog_> "For you Brad, I've got Five!"
13:51 <@SkyDog_> Yeah, what cha need?
13:51 <@NotLarry> Video, we want video
13:52 <@Dagmar> nlol
13:52 <@Dagmar> I have been called "a weak-minded coward"
13:53 <@Dagmar> Lemme just show how ludicrous that seems to me
13:53 <@Dagmar> <FONT SIZE="+64">ROFL</FONT>
13:53 <@Dagmar> http://www.memestreams.net/users/dagmar/blogid10330919/
13:54 <@Dagmar> Those poor, poor deluded hippies.
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13:55 <@Catonic> Dagmar: are you still fucking with the indymedia group?
13:55 <@Dagmar> Oh yes.
13:55 <@Dagmar> Look at that inspid email they sent.
13:55 <@Dagmar> I think "Erik" frankly got tired of me reposting my comments on that last one.
13:56 <@Dagmar> ...and he has ***NO*** idea what kind of a hard-ass he's dealing with.
13:57 <@Catonic> have you accused them of stifling free speech yet?
13:57 <@Dagmar> Oh REPEATEDLY.
13:58 <@Dagmar> I just find it hilarious the guy called me a "weak-minded coward"
13:58 <@Catonic> sue 'em for libel.
13:58 <@Dagmar> Like, there's not much one could say that could be *further* from reality.
13:58 <@Dagmar> They're about to get to see what a confrontation ASSHOLE I can be.
13:59 <@Dagmar> I'm gonna go to the domain contact for *.indymedia.org and ask why it is they're handling the twincities subdomain.
14:00 <@Dagmar> ...although I am sorely tempted to do an "expose" on the censorship going on at twincities.indymedia.com and post it to nashville.indymedia.com
14:00 <@Dagmar> er s/com/org/g;
14:00 <@Catonic> Dagmar: do it.
14:00 <@Catonic> encourage others to check thier local organization for the same behavior
14:01 <@Catonic> an independent news source is useless if they are overly picky about content.
14:01 <@Corydon76-dig> Catonic: their problem isn't that they're overly picky; it's that they're overly permissive
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14:02 <@Dagmar> I have to agree with Corydon, but not for the obvious reaosn.
14:02 <@Dagmar> They're clearly allowing some idiots to post so much non-newsworthy content to twincities.indymedia.org that it's basically operating as the propaganda arm of the "RNC Welcoming Committee"
14:02 <@Corydon76-dig> I have to agree with Fox News being "fair and balanced" only when you compare them to indymedia, not to other news organizations
14:02 <@Dagmar> lol
14:03 <@Dagmar> Yeah, they *do* make FOX look fair
14:03 <@oddball> must be pretty bad for you to say something like that
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14:04 <@Corydon76-dig> oddball: their site is full of slant and invective that doesn't make the slightest attempt to balance news stories with information from both sides of an issue
14:04 <@Dagmar> oddball: You want me to find you a good example of the bullshit they're passing off as "news"?
14:06 <@Dagmar> Here's something from their "Livewire" which is supposedly "breaking news":
14:06 <@Dagmar> I just made a backup of the page because they have deleted some of these items already
14:07 <@Dagmar> Update Submitted by haloka on Thu, 09/04/2008 - 20:10: cred_rating: Four. tear gas all around capitol area, reports of flashbangs; ** unconfirmed report: 5-6 concussion grenades shot off at sears parking lot by capitol. get people there! ** cops clearing marion street with snowplows.
14:07 <@Dagmar> This is not "breaking news".  This is "directing mobs"
14:07 <@oddball> ....yeah....
14:08 <@Dagmar> There's one that even CNN commented on that has been removed where the phrase "NEED BACKUP NOW" was used.
14:08 <@oddball> heh
14:08 <@oddball> and, of course, "unconfirmed report" = some yahoo just told us/we just made this up
14:09 <@Dagmar> Lemme find you the one where I discovered they were censoring comments.
14:09 <+MaxieZ> Well fox news does that as well
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14:10 <@oddball> Oh, no... I believe you
14:10 <+MaxieZ> I've seen them say things like: It's being said that blah blah blah
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14:10 <@oddball> Yeah, just about every news source does that to one extent or another.
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14:14 <@Dagmar> LOL
14:14 <@Dagmar> THey chicken shits have deleted the news article
14:16 <@Dagmar> Here's the video tho
14:16 <@Dagmar> http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/09/03/18532509.php
14:17 <@Dagmar> Earlier this video was linked from the IndyMedia site along with very explicit text calling them "provocateurs"
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14:18 <@NotLarry> Evilpig:  are you here?
14:20 <@critch> hmm, a lullaby version of Sunday bloody Sunday?
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14:28 < juice> where is the prereg site again?
14:28 <@Dolemite> http://www.phreaknic.info
14:28 <@Dolemite> first paragraph
14:29 <@Dolemite> lrnz2webify
14:31 < juice> thanks
14:31 < juice> was up last time I looked
14:31 < juice> wasn't
14:33 <@polerin> ~minilink http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.27.6.w472/DC1
14:33 <+MxZBot> http://maxiez.com/l/healthaffairs.org/D2Eis
14:33 <@polerin> ^^analysis of mccain's healthcare proposals
14:36 < juice> okay
14:37 < juice> just bought my ticket
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14:44 <@oddball> wait... did I just hear correctly that there's a huge fire on Division street near Vandy?
14:44 <@Dolemite> Mario's
14:45 <@oddball> Apparently it's jumped from that building to surrounding ones.
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14:45 <@Dolemite> they better not touch South Street.  that's my favorite place for vendors to buy me lunch.
14:45 <@critch> http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=9019249
14:45 <@oddball> heh
14:46 <@oddball> I was unaware that Mario's had been closed since last year
14:46 -!- maco [n=maco@ubuntu/member/macogw] has joined #se2600
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14:47 <@critch> oddball: since Oct of '06
14:47 < eryc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txDWRR5WRFQ
14:49 <@coil> seen it 3 times today
14:49 <@coil> and twice yesterday
14:49 < juice> MxZBot, seen wizardPC
14:49 <+MxZBot> wizardpc <n=wizardpc@c-98-193-191-177> was last seen on IRC in channel #se2600, 3d 7h 6m 11s ago, saying: 'unless you're a cop, and she's giving a confession, that is :D'.
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14:59 < eryc> MxZBot, seend vagina
14:59 <+MxZBot> eryc: Can you run that by me again?
14:59 < eryc> MxZBot, seen vagina
14:59 <+MxZBot> eryc: i haven't seen 'vagina'
14:59 <@critch> MxZBot: send vagina
14:59 <+MxZBot> no se, critch
15:00 <+MaxieZ> Careful.  You don't want to seed vagina
15:00 <+MaxieZ> In that way lies madness
15:00 <@critch> hmm, could the bot actually seed a vagina?
15:00 <+MaxieZ> skynet?
15:05 <+MaxieZ> Sorry...I've been watching Sarah Connor Chronicles...too much skynet on the brain
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15:06 <@critch> I wasn't too impressed with it last night
15:07 <@brimstone> NO SPOILERS!
15:08 <@coil> wait what is it
15:10 <+MaxieZ> I'm watching Season 1
15:10 <+MaxieZ> Nothing to worry about
15:11 <@Catonic> vagina?
15:11 <+MxZBot> vagina is fuck you
15:11 <@critch> ahh, I was talking about season 2 ep 2
15:13 <+MaxieZ> Yeah...I know the new season is on
15:14 <+MaxieZ> I just started watching them yesterday
15:36 <@Dagmar> so I just launched a "wall of text" attack on the core Indymedia editors.
15:36 -!- Neoteric [n=timball@mail.sunlightfoundation.net] has joined #se2600
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15:36 <@Dagmar> Should be interesting to see what they have to say about the censorship that's been going on over at Twincities.indymedia
15:36 <@Dagmar> Little hippie Erik should never have called me a "weak-minded coward".
15:36 <@Dagmar> That was just fucking stupid.
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15:42 <@Catonic> lol
15:42 <@Catonic> Something about that seems very third grade.
15:43 <@Catonic> On the internet... everyone is a third-grader.
15:43 <@coil> your mom is
15:50 <@Drag0n> case in point
15:55 < ware> Catonic is a fat hooker
15:55 <@Catonic> ware: I'm a whore, there's a difference.
15:56 < ware> Catonic is a fat whore*
15:57 <+MaxieZ> What's the difference?
15:57 < ware> whores are more aesthetically pleasing
15:58 <@Drag0n> and the hourly rate
15:59 <@Drag0n> course, i always heard it was, a hooker will sleep with anyone, a whore will sleep with anyone...but you!!!!!
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15:59 <@SkyDog_> No, a whore will sleep with anyone, a bitch will sleep with anyone but you... :)
16:02 < ware> fishnet hookers sometimes dont even wash the last guys cream out of their hair
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16:02 <@Dagmar> SkyDog_: So I've semi-formally started arguing with OTP about the lack of safe scooter parking now
16:03 <@SkyDog_> OTP?
16:03 <@Drag0n> firsthand experience ware?
16:03 <@Dagmar> Office of Traffic and Parking
16:03 <@SkyDog_> When you say safe, you mean well lit, and secure?
16:03 < ware> Drag0n: my sister
16:03 <@Dagmar> SkyDog_: You sound like you're wanting more than I do.
16:03 <@Drag0n> must run in the family
16:04 <@Dagmar> I just want format clearance to be able to tether to bike racks nearer the office.
16:04 < ware> Drag0n: youve not a clue
16:04 <@Dagmar> That parking in lot 76 looks like I'd be an idiot to park there.
16:04 <@SkyDog_> Which is 76? Behind PAB?
16:04 <@SkyDog_> Or across the street from Hill?
16:04 <@Dagmar> Across from the Freedom Forum
16:04 <@Dagmar> Just down the street from the hill center.
16:04 <@Dagmar> I'm not worried about it raining on the bike
16:05 <@SkyDog_> I see where you're talking about now.
16:05 <@Dagmar> I have *serious* doubts about parking the damn thing somewhere visually obscured, right *on* a trafficked road, without anything to tether the thing to
16:05 <@SkyDog_> WHy not chain it up to the bik racks?
16:05 <@Dagmar> Like, any asshole with a pick up truck could drive right in there, snatch a scooter, and be gone in seconds.
16:06 <@SkyDog_> Agreed. They are not very heavy.
16:06 <@Dagmar> They're fuking _light_.
16:07 <@Dagmar> 232 lbs
16:07 <@Dagmar> If *I* can lift the backend with one hand without trying, that's too light to go without being chained down to something that ain't moving
16:08 <@SkyDog_> Like I said, chain it to the bike racks outside of hill/commons.
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16:08 <@Dagmar> That's what I'm about to do.
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16:08 <@Dagmar> Like, as in righ tnow.  heh
16:08 <@SkyDog_> Cool.
16:08 <@SkyDog_> Yeah, I think scooters are gonna be more prevalent nowadays.
16:08 <@Dagmar> I've been *trying* to split the difference by parking it in this little half-a-space until after about 4:30 and then moving it, so as not to irritate the VUPD
16:09 <@SkyDog_> Oh, I saw one on the street yesterday with NO tag, but they were in traffic on broadway at the roundabout.
16:09 <@SkyDog_> Is that even legal?
16:09 <@Dagmar> 50cc scooters need no tags or anything.
16:09 <@Dagmar> 125CC scooters need a motorcycle plate.
16:09 <@Dagmar> 126cc and larger require tags, registration, and an 'M' cert on the licence.
16:09 <@Dagmar> *all* require insurance.
16:10 <@SkyDog_> Cool.
16:10 <@Dagmar> Not all the cops actually know that 50cc scooters don't need tags yet
16:10 <@critch> I thought the under 50cc were not street legal.
16:10 <@Dagmar> They're legal for what amounts to "surface streets" by most people's definition.
16:10 < MudFlap> Honda made us buy tag for 50cc.
16:11 < MudFlap> Or talked us into it.  I assumed required.
16:11 <@Dagmar> LIke, they are NOT legal for interstate travel, and you can not drive them on a "divided highway" which is basically a highway with a median.
16:11  * Catonic grins at his 0cc scooter.
16:11 <@oddball> critch: nope, they're legal, but you don't need a license, and they can't go on the interstate.  By law, they're mopeds.
16:11 <@Dagmar> MudFlap: Are you in TN?
16:11 < MudFlap> Yep.
16:11 <@Catonic> "motor-driven cycles"
16:11 <@Dagmar> oddball: Technically mine can't go on the interstate, by the letter of the law, but it doesn't matter because those fuckers drive crazy
16:12 <@Dagmar> Yeah those little signs near the on-ramps that people ignore specifically address "motor-driven cycles" which is what the TN law classifies 125cc vehicles as, but not 50cc vehicles.
16:12 <@oddball> Oh yeah... they need to be >150cc to hit the interstate, right?
16:12 <@Dagmar> Although, even a derestricted, souped-up 50cc might top out at 50mph, you'd be a fucking moron to take one on an interstate
16:13 <@oddball> yeah
16:13 <@Dagmar> DMV says I can.  Dealer said I can.  Sanity seys no fucking way
16:13 <@Dagmar> I can do 65+ on mine.
16:14 < MudFlap> What make and model?
16:14 <@Dagmar> I could definitely keep up on 440 and so forth, but I ain't in that much of a damn hurry
16:14 <@critch> heh, 65 is just into 2nd gear nicely, 3rd if I want the RPMS down. Wouldn't even think of going under 70 on my bike in 6th
16:14 <@Dagmar> MudFlap: Kymco Agility 125
16:15 <@Dagmar> http://www.kymcousa.com/showroom/scooters/agility125/index.html
16:15 <@Dagmar> Man I was tlking to some older guy at Bongo the other day, and he just couldn't seem to grasp the concept of a CVT.
16:15 <@Dagmar> "But you gotta select from one of three gears, don't you?"
16:15 <@Dagmar> "Nope.  All I do is twist this bit and it goes"
16:16 < MudFlap> nice.
16:16 <@critch> Dagmar: most people have trouble understanding how they work, or even that they exist even though they are now available in cars.
16:16 <@Dagmar> He had made some comment about "so-called automatic transmission", and I asked him what he meant by it
16:16 <@critch> Up north you find them on snowmobiles
16:16 <@Dagmar> I was like "No, mine's either fully automatic or it's got one hell of a first gear on it."
16:17 <@critch> Dagmar: it isn't really what would be considered automatic either. an automatic transmission just auto selects gears for you, a CVT is Constantly Variable
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16:21 <@critch> A classic CVT uses 2 variable pullies and a vbelt between the two. As the RPMS climb, one pully increases it's effective size while the other decreases. This makes it possible to change ratios without actually changing "gears"
16:27 <@Catonic> I've driven then. It's a little odd.
16:27 <@Dagmar> As far as the average driver is concerned, it's an "automatic transmission".
16:28 <@Catonic> ... but the RPMS go up, and stay up.
16:28 <@Dagmar> I dunno from RPMs.  Mine just geta bit louder.
16:28 <@Catonic> more appropriately, as far as the average driver is concerned... it's PURE FUCKING MAGIC.
16:29 <@Dagmar> Yeeees
16:30 <@Dagmar> I have three controls to worry about, beyond just not falling off of it.
16:30 <@Dagmar> One for "go" and two for "stop" which I have been told should be used equally if I'd like to not fly over the handlebars
16:30 <@Catonic> I wish we had better public transportation so I didn't have to worry about driving.
16:31 <@Dagmar> I wish we had few pill-poppin soccer moms driving SUVs the size of the fucking moon around.
16:31 <@Catonic> Dagmar: shit! you mean they drive like that SOBER?
16:31 <@oddball> The fun thing is that many drivers don't like CVTs because it doesn't feel like they're accelerating as hard because of the lack of gear change bumps.
16:31 <@Dagmar> I'll let you know when I see one I'd consder to be both "sober" and "paying fucking attention to the road"
16:34 <@Dagmar> Some soccer mom tried to squeeze me out in a lane merge yesterday
16:34 <@Dagmar> I had right of way, and she was coming up from behind.
16:34 <@Dagmar> Like, pure and simple she was trying to make me get behind her.
16:35 <@Catonic> http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2931
16:35 <@Dagmar> She ignored me tooting my little horn to point out that no, my little scooter doesn't have a problem doing 45mph, but she got the hint when I looked over at her and shouted "I WILL SO KICK IN YOUR FUCKING WINDOWS LADY"
16:35 < eryc> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/photos/photo.asp?PhotoID=887
16:36 < ware> Dagmar: HAHA
16:36 <@Dagmar> Catonic: That is pure awesome
16:36 < ware> would you / could you be able to go on a ride with us?
16:36 <@brimstone> Dagmar: you need a paintball gun or something
16:36 < ware> or does it top out at 45
16:36 <@Dagmar> ware: It tops out at 65+
16:36 <@Catonic> brimstone: police frown on using BB and paintball guns from a moving vehicle.
16:37 < ware> thats about like someninjamaster's scooter
16:37 <@Dagmar> Like, it is *more* than capable of handling non-interstate roads
16:37 < ware> you should come on a geek ride with us
16:37 <@coil> quit saying scooter
16:37 <@Dagmar> Catonic: Yep.  That's just a plain old felony
16:37 <@Catonic> I still like the mountain bike... I top out at 30, but I'll hop a curb in a heartbeat.
16:37 <@Dagmar> ware: If ever I knew when one was
16:37 < ware> i think it'd be cool to have a pellet gun mounted under the front / rear bumper with a camera
16:38 <@Catonic> I learned some tricks from a former roughneck..
16:38 <@critch> Dagmar: I have been told to keep old dead batteries within reach and a device that needs that size battery. Opps I dropped it when changing the battery
16:38 <@Catonic> when you can get your hands on ball bearings 3/4" in diameter, they leave marks.
16:38 <@critch> Catonic: think a AA battery wouldn't do the same thing?
16:39 <@Dagmar> critch: I am more direct.  I am eyeing these nice Kryptonite chains and trying not to salivate
16:39 <@Catonic> also, a quarter flipped over the shoulder at 50 is just about guaranteed to wind up lodged in a windshield.
16:39 <@Catonic> anyone ever looked at what happens when you wear chainmail and fall off a bike?
16:39 <@brimstone> heh, brass knuckles and just punch it
16:39 <@brimstone> Catonic: what are you doing with chainmail on a bike?
16:39 <@brimstone> mom can't drive you to LARP?
16:39 <@Catonic> brimstone is on to something there...
16:39 <@Dagmar> Catonic: I imagine it's pretty rockstar
16:40 <@critch> brimstone: kind of hard to punch while riding at decent speed
16:40 <@critch> Kick sometimes, but not usually punch
16:40 <@brimstone> critch: yeah, it's hard on a pedal bike too :(
16:40 <@Catonic> critch: not to mention that your body doesn't want to work that way along with the vectors you're dealing with.
16:40 <@Dagmar> Look at the chain on this shit tho http://www.kryptonitelock.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?cid=1000&scid=1002&pid=1169
16:41 <@Dagmar> It looks like if you swung it hard enough it could tear right through a Geo Metro
16:41 <@Catonic> Dagmar: yeah, totally fashion satement there.
16:41 <@Catonic> *statement
16:41 <@critch> Dagmar: http://www.ngatraders.com/old_school_biker_getback_whips.html
16:41 <@brimstone> wow, if you use that as a bike lock too
16:42 <@Dagmar> critch: Oh nice!
16:42 <@Catonic> critch: how would you use one?
16:42 <@polerin> plus chains or nunchucka have the additional benefit of not being attached to your body, and not relying on your body and the vehicle to brace on the hit
16:42 <@brimstone> heh, "Easily removed while riding or to take with you when bike is parked"
16:42 <@critch> As a whip upon the vehicle
16:43 < eryc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmMSilHDSAs
16:43 <@Dagmar> What cirtch is referenceing is *much* nicer than what the chain I like would do
16:44 <@brimstone> Dagmar: don't hold the end with the metal clip then :)
16:44 <@Catonic> Dagmar: don't get me wrong... when it comes to vehicular homicide, I'm all for going Ghostrider on someone's ass.
16:44 <@Dagmar> brimstone: They have a slightly less overcompensating form of that chain, by itself.
16:44 <@Dagmar> http://www.kryptonitelock.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?cid=1000&scid=1002&pid=1174
16:45 <@Dagmar> It's called a "New York Noose".
16:46 <@Dagmar> Either of those would hang real nice from the helmet hook on the center post
16:46 <@brimstone> those look rough
16:46 <@brimstone> would take out a taillight at least
16:47 <@brimstone> that'll cause them to get pulled over in TN and AL right?
16:48 < eryc> i think every state requires tail lights
16:48 <@Dagmar> Yep
16:48 <@Dagmar> Dis is why so many cars have "clusters" of tail lights now
16:48 <@Dagmar> If one of the NINE on each side goes out, you're _still_ street legal in all 50 states
16:49 <@Drag0n> wonder how many leo's are pissed at the loss of revenue from the taillamp outage fees?
16:49 <@Dagmar> That's their problem.  Heh
16:49 < eryc> tho if you lose the license plate light you can still get pulled over
16:49 <@Dagmar> Nope.,
16:49 <@Drag0n> so, get led's in those too
16:50 < eryc> in texas you will
16:50 <@Dagmar> THere's no law that says yer plates have to be illuminated in TN.
16:50 <@Dagmar> Technically, having a licence plate light is illegal.
16:50 <@Dagmar> ...because you are strictly prohibted in TN from having white lights on a vehicle on any face but the direction it's traveling in.
16:50 < eryc> i got pulled over in texas for that
16:51 <@Dagmar> So, you can have backup lights that only activate when the car is in reverse, but thankfully no one seems to give a shit about a 10W bulb over a plate
16:52 <@critch> Dagmar: I was pulled over and cited for a taillight infraction when only half of one cluster wasn't lit up.
16:58 <@Dagmar> critch: I'd have bored the shit out fo a judge to get out of that
16:58 <@Dagmar> You still *had* a working tail light
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17:01 <@polerin> bad ass
17:01 <@polerin> we just got tickets for the NiN show
17:01 <@polerin> muahahaha
17:01 <@Dagmar> The one in Knoxville,right?
17:02 -!- rattle [n=rattle@tor/regular/rattle] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:03 -!- unixfag [n=ryan@pdpc/supporter/professional/unixfag] has quit ["Leaving."]
17:03 <@Neoteric> the hell is an .isz file?
17:04 <+MaxieZ> ~google for .isz file
17:04 <+MxZBot> Google says .isz file is at http://google.brand.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EDGARpro.dll?FetchFilingOrig1?SessionID=__bNjDYNNDV_Iwo&ID=4486629 or http://iwon.brand.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EDGARpro.dll?FetchFilingOrig1?SessionID=L9ZkjNVjuQJE4q4&ID=4248171
17:04 <@Neoteric> ezb ultra iso
17:04 <@brimstone> ULTRA ISO
17:04 <@Neoteric> the fuck is an ultra iso?
17:05 <@brimstone> it's better then a normal iso, but not as good as an EXTREME ISO
17:05 <@Neoteric> brimstone: does that imply there's an ultimate ISO?
17:05 <@brimstone> ayep
17:05 <@brimstone> can you unzip it? http://www.fileinfo.net/extension/isz
17:06 <@Drag0n> and no where near as cool and the mega super enhanced new and improved, now with extra bits iso...
17:07  * Lissa does the I have NIN tickets for Halloween dance
17:08 <@Dagmar> Where?
17:08 <@Lissa> Sommett Center
17:08 <@Lissa> they were pre-sale about 8 minutes ago for fans
17:08 <@Neoteric> check out #4 in the "what's new" http://www.winmount.com/download.html
17:08 <@polerin> and not only tickets
17:08 <@Dagmar> Lissa: You suck then
17:09 <@Lissa> :D
17:09 <@polerin> 4th row up from floor, just to the left of the stage
17:09 <@polerin> left and front
17:09 <@polerin> perfect position to see
17:09 <@Lissa> i hit F5 just before 5:00 and that's the seats it gave me :)
17:11 <@Dagmar> I'm a fan
17:14 <@Lissa> are you on the mailing list?
17:14 <@Dagmar> Nope
17:14 <@Lissa> :(
17:14 <@Dagmar> I got way too much email as it is
17:14 <@Lissa> hehe
17:14 <@Lissa> i hear ya
17:14 <@Dagmar> Wanna see the funny one I got today?
17:14 <@Lissa> that's my bday/anniversary present
17:14 <@Lissa> sure
17:15 <@Dagmar> Apparently I am a "weak-minded coward"
17:15 <@Dagmar> http://www.memestreams.net/users/dagmar/blogid10330919/
17:15 <@Lissa> there are people in here that fit that description MUCH better than you
17:15 <@Dagmar> I just think it's fuckin hilarious that he called me
17:16 <@Dagmar> that
17:16 <@Lissa> that's certainly interesting
17:16 <@Dagmar> I am a stubborn-as-fuck asshole.
17:16 <@Lissa> aw
17:16 <@Lissa> stubborn maybe..but asshole?  erm..only if you're PMSing
17:16 <@Dagmar> ...and to demonstrate the point, I just took this to the IndyMedia US Editors listserv to see what they think about the censorship and the blatant use of the indymedia name for propaganda
17:17 <@Dagmar> "Your message to imc-us-editorial awaits moderator approval"
17:17 <@Lissa> hehe
17:18 <@Neoteric> Dagmar: you're such a fucking weakminded-coward
17:18 <@Dagmar> It should be interesting to see what they have to say about someone censoring comments, and then verbally abusing people who ask why
17:18 <@Dagmar> Neoteric: I'm about to make some hippies cry
17:18 <@Neoteric> ohwait... I think it's captain douche bag that's the weakmindedfucktard
17:18 <@polerin> http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/16/mccain-palin-health-plan-an-apple-a-day-or-your-wallet/
17:19 <@Lissa> I'm just enterained at the fact the guy not only took time to give you bullet points of what you've done wrong, but that he sorta admitted (in not so many words) that they do break the law
17:19 <@Dagmar> Oh yes.
17:19 <@Dagmar> I'm letting that bit slide right now.
17:19 <@Lissa> hehe
17:19 <@Dagmar> I'm still giving them the easiest way possible to get more rope with which to hang themselves.
17:19 <@Lissa> hehe
17:19 <@Lissa> done.
17:20 -!- maco [n=maco@ubuntu/member/macogw] has quit [Connection timed out]
17:20 <@Dagmar> I'm convinced that at some point I'm going to hit someone over there with the sense to say "WTF are you guys doing?" and the authority to say "STOP IT"
17:20 <@Lissa> :D
17:20 <@polerin> dag.
17:20 <@polerin> youre talking to anarchists.
17:20 <@Dagmar> That he accused me of lying is something I could have just as easily demanded justification of.
17:20 <@Lissa> and communists
17:20 <@Dagmar> poleric: Hey great we'll have something in common then
17:20 <@polerin> why do you think you're going to talk to someone with Authority?
17:21 <@Dagmar> polerinc: He who controls the DNS server controls the world.
17:21 <@polerin> (hello?  anarchist == anti-authoritarian)   :P
17:21 <@Lissa> or She
17:21 <@Lissa> ^.^
17:22 <@Dagmar> polerin: Enlightened anarchists understand that you have to sometimes "strongly encourage" your brothers not to be fucktards
17:22 <@polerin> and beyond that, the tech group tends to try to stay out of those arguments on purpose, and to not make individual decisions about group policy
17:22 <@polerin> heh
17:22 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: there's always someone in charge
17:22 <@polerin> uh. no.
17:22 <@Lissa> even Zack knows that
17:22 <@Dagmar> polerin: Um, yes.
17:22 <@polerin> Dagmar: the uh. no. was to Corydon76-dig
17:23 <@Dagmar> polerin: I guarantee you that at the end of the day there's someone over there who can make any changes to the indymedia.org zone file that they damn well please.
17:23 <@Corydon76-dig> He with the biggest ego and the biggest ability to persuade rules the roost
17:23 <@polerin> to your statement I say "I was commenting on your use of the word authority"
17:23 <@Lissa> or She
17:23 <@Dagmar> the DNS admin may not like it, but they have to wear the authority hat
17:23 <@polerin> heh
17:23 <@polerin> Dagmar: no, they don't, they have to wear the power hat
17:23 <@polerin> that's different
17:23 <@Lissa> they wear the asshat
17:24 <@polerin> no that's ware.
17:24 <@Dagmar> No, that's the authority hat.
17:24 <@Lissa> :D
17:24 <@brimstone> i wanna hat
17:24  * Lissa gives brimstone the bowler hat
17:24 <@Dagmar> They've got both the power to change the zone, and the responsibility to not do so for ludicrous reasons.
17:24 <@polerin> I have to get dressed to go to the store.  Back in a bit, and this isn't really an argument I feel like having
17:24 <@Lissa> i gotta go to the pharmacy and pick up my anti-sinus infection meds
17:24  * brimstone struts around in a bowler hat
17:24  * Lissa drags erin out
17:24 <@Dagmar> Authority conveys responsibility.
17:25 <@polerin> no.  Authority conveys control over others.
17:25 <@Dagmar> Authority without responsibility is ownership.
17:25 <@Lissa> Authority without beer is no fun
17:25 <@Dagmar> No, it doesn't.
17:25 <@Dagmar> You've been listening to too many of those little hippie wannabe anarchist
17:26 <@Lissa> I don't wanna be an anarchist...
17:26 <@Dagmar> They're under the impression that anarchy is a state where no one has any say over anyone and no one can tell them they can't go act like spaz tards.
17:26 -!- Jagobah [n=Leonard@adsl-32-175-70.owb.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:26 <@brimstone> Lissa: then you should get a cool hat instead
17:26 <@Dagmar> That's not a society.  That's simply animalistic behaviour.
17:26 <@polerin> no, they say that anarchy is a state where there is no hierarchy
17:26 <@polerin> that's not "nobody can tell them not to spazz out"
17:27 <@Dagmar> poolerin: Saying that authority conveys control "over others" specifically, is the difference.
17:27 <@Dagmar> Authority conveys the responsibility to tend to that over which one has authority.
17:27 <@Dagmar> It's *not* necessarily others, at all.
17:27 <@polerin> no it doesn't
17:27 <@polerin> it should
17:27 <@Dagmar> Yes, it does.
17:27 <@polerin> but it doesn't
17:27 <@Dagmar> No, it should not.
17:27 <@Dagmar> Fucking shut the hell up and listen carefully.
17:27 <@polerin> what the hell
17:27 <@Dagmar> This is where that silly little argument hippies like to make breaks down.
17:28 -!- Jagobah|gone [n=jago7777@adsl-32-175-70.owb.bellsouth.net] has joined #se2600
17:28  * Lissa puts on the vueltiao hat
17:28 <@polerin> YES MY LORD AND MASTER I LISTEN CAREFULLY TO YOUR WORDS
17:28 -!- Jagobah|gone [n=jago7777@adsl-32-175-70.owb.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit]
17:28 -!- remoford1 [n=remoford@c-68-52-72-214.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
17:28 <@Dagmar> You can't put that "over othere" rider on it because the rules one plays by are the rules one should expect others to play by, even if they're your own.
17:28 <@Dagmar> That's a cop out.
17:28 <@polerin> Dagmar: quit treating me like an idiot.  I understand what you are saying, but I am pointing out that there are plenty of people with authority in this world that have no real responsibility
17:28  * Lissa takes brimstone's bowler and replaces it with a trilby hat
17:29 <@Dagmar> poleric: Stop running your mouth a second and you will see what I'm talking about.
17:29 <@Dagmar> I'm not treating you like an idiot.
17:29 <@polerin> I'm sorry, you're treating me like a child
17:29 <@Dagmar> I'm treating like you like I treat anyone who's spent too long listening to some hippie wannabes
17:29 <@Dagmar> The break in the logic they use is very simple
17:29 <@polerin> someone who should shut up and listen and only argue on your terms :)
17:29 <@Dagmar> WHO holds authority over you?
17:29  * brimstone returns the trilby and pulls a tricorn out of his back pocket
17:29 <@Dagmar> We'll fucking do this the hard way
17:30 <@Dagmar> Who holds authority over you?
17:30 <@polerin> right now?  My morgage company.
17:30 <@Lissa> mortgage*
17:30 <@polerin> shush ;P
17:30 <@Lissa> and me
17:30 <@Lissa> :)
17:30 <@Dagmar> Don't be a jackass.  There's a very clear chain of logic I'm going to illustrate for you.
17:30 <@polerin> and her
17:30 <@polerin> Dagmar: I'm not
17:30 <@Lissa> the bible tells me what to do
17:30 <@polerin> I'm pointing out an example of authority that doesn't fit your logic
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17:30 <@Dagmar> In the ideal, lah-de-blah anarchist society these guys want, who holds authority over you?>
17:31 <@Lissa> the law.
17:31 <@polerin> They have the authority to tell me to get the hell out without any responsibility to me
17:31 <@Dagmar> You're not, but if you'll focusfor a moment I'll show you the gap they have
17:31 <@polerin> they have to go through legal genuflections, but they can call my mortgage at any time
17:31 <@polerin> Dagmar: you said authority meens responsibility
17:31 <@polerin> I said it does not
17:31 <@Dagmar> It does, too.
17:31 <@Dagmar> Stop changing the subject.
17:31 <@polerin> I just provided an example of authority to you where there is no responsibilty and you just ignored me
17:32 <@polerin> what responsibility does the mortgage company have to me?
17:32 <@Dagmar> polerin: You gave them the authority without the responsibility.
17:32 <@Dagmar> That doesn't break any logic.
17:32 <@Lissa> to pay our escrow
17:32 <@Dagmar> You're the one who set that relationship in motion.
17:32 <@polerin> Dagmar: as I said, you can have authority without responsibility
17:32 <@polerin> that's *ALL I SAID*
17:32 <@Dagmar> I'm talking about the "inalienable" and "inherent" things here.
17:33 <@Dagmar> Look, it's real fucking simple, and just about anyone whose done 20 hits of acid and REALLY thought about it could tell you this same shit.
17:33 <@Dagmar> YOU have authority over YOU at all times, yes?
17:33 <@Lissa> unless i'm under anesthisia
17:34 <@polerin> Dagmar: you're changing the subject.
17:34  * Dagmar gives Lissa a "look"
17:34 <@polerin> You asked ME a quest
17:34 <@polerin> ion
17:34 <@polerin> I answered
17:34  * Lissa gives dagmar the cheesy grin :)
17:34 <@polerin> you didn't like the answer
17:34 <@Dagmar> No, I'm saying the same shit I've been about for the last several minutes.
17:34 <@polerin> yes, because you're working from a place where you can't be wrong
17:34 <@Dagmar> You're jkust too busy trying to be clever.
17:34 <@polerin> ..
17:34 <@polerin> no
17:34 <@Dagmar> Yes.
17:34 <@polerin> I'm not trying to be clever
17:35 <@polerin> Pointing out an example that violates your definition is not clever
17:35 <@brimstone> jerry, jerry, jerry
17:35 <@polerin> it is proving you wrong by example.
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17:35 <@Dagmar> Look, someone who tries to say that no one should have authority over anyone, that there should be no authority at all, is just trying to make an excuse for being an irresponsible fucktard.
17:35 <@Lissa> if the guy with no legs/hips shows up..i'm leaving
17:35 <@polerin> Dagmar: then anarchists are irresponsible fucktards
17:35 <@Dagmar> All all times, we have authority over ourselves, except that which you may have stupidly sold to some fucking mortgage company.
17:35 <@Lissa> that guy freaks me the fuck out
17:35 <@polerin> Dagmar: because that's what anarchy is.  A lack of hierarchy.
17:35  * Lissa taps erin
17:35 <@Corydon76-dig> Wow, this is like watching an argument between a blade of grass and a lawn mower
17:35 <@Dagmar> It is out of THIS that comes the responsibility to take care of yourself, because that's the trade-off that makes a society "go".
17:36 <@Dagmar> An anarchy isn't just a "lack of hierarchy".
17:36 <@polerin> Dagmar:  you keep using the word "anarchy".  I do not think it meens what you think it does.
17:36 <@Lissa> ...
17:36 <@polerin> what is anarchy to you then
17:36 <@polerin> please, enlighten me.
17:36 <@Lissa> way to quote the Princess Bride with different words
17:36 <@polerin> :)
17:36 <@Dagmar> An anrchy is a society which does what it's supposed to fucking do without anyone 1) being forced or 2) needing to be forced.
17:36 <@Corydon76-dig> where the lawn mower is telling the blade of grass it can't grow high, and the blade of grass is telling the lawnmower it can grow as high as it likes
17:36 <@Lissa> INCONCEIVABLE!
17:37 <@Dagmar> It *requires* personal responsibility, or it's just a bunch of jackasses standing in a group.
17:37 <@polerin> ok
17:37 <@polerin> and that meens there has to be authority how?
17:37 <@Dagmar> The responsibiliity comes from authority over self.
17:37 <@Dagmar> If you don't ahve authority over yourself, you don't have control over yourself.
17:37 <@polerin> that's not authority, that's freedom.
17:37 <@Dagmar> They are one and the same.
17:37  * Lissa taps erin again
17:37 <@polerin> no, they aren't
17:37 <@Dagmar> Yes, they are.
17:38 < eryc> stop bickering you weak minded cowards
17:38 <@Dagmar> You're seriously going to sit there and try to say you *don't* look out for your own best interests?
17:38 <@polerin> authority in an social context is not internal
17:38 <@polerin> it is a relational concept
17:38 < eryc> cowards i say!
17:38 <@Dagmar> polering: That right there... That right there is where your argument breaks
17:38 <@polerin> ...
17:38 <@polerin> why?
17:39 < eryc> weak minded!
17:39 <@Dagmar> "authority in an social context is not internal"
17:39 <@Dagmar> That's some solipistic bullshit right there that hippies like to pass off, and it's where it fails.
17:39 <@Lissa> anarchy: 1.a state of society without government or law.  - freedom - 3.the power to determine action without restraint.
17:39 <@Dagmar> Authority in a social context is _universal_.
17:39 <@polerin> so your saing my argument fails because it's hippies.
17:39 < eryc> ya hippies smell funny
17:39 <@Dagmar> You do NOT get to say it's "not internal" because by doing so you say "it applies to everyone but me"
17:39 <@brimstone> hippies i tell ya!
17:39 <@Lissa> authority - he power to determine, adjudicate, or otherwise settle issues or disputes; jurisdiction; the right to control, command, or determine.
17:39 <@brimstone> polerin: you need to use more capital letters
17:39 < eryc> hippies are weak minded too
17:40 <@Dagmar> ...and THAT is how you know you're dealing with some kid.
17:40 <@polerin> Dagmar: no, it applies to me, but not from myself.  It applies to me in relation to other people
17:40 <@Dagmar> It applies to you in relation to yourself as well.
17:40 <@polerin> BRIMSTONE: REALLY?  OK
17:40 <@Dagmar> i.e., it's universal.
17:40 <@Lissa> I'm gonna steal her caps lock and shift in a minute..i tell you what...actually..i may steal the whole damn keyboard SO I CAN GO TO THE PHARMACY
17:40 <@Lissa> !!11elevenoneone!!!11
17:40 <@Dagmar> If you're expecting other people to follow rules that you yourself wouldn't follow, then you're just a jackass trying to usurp power over others and calling it "anarchy"
17:40 < eryc> got drugs?
17:40 <@Lissa> trying.
17:40 < eryc> mmm drugs
17:40 <@Lissa> i have prescriptions for said drugs now
17:41 <@Dagmar> I have seen *lots* of cases of that sort of self-centeredness.
17:41 <@polerin> Dagmar: yes.  I'm horribly self centered
17:41  * Lissa nods
17:41 <@polerin> the fact that I'm arguing with you shows this without doubt
17:41 <@polerin> horrible horrible person.
17:41 <@polerin> bad me.
17:41 <@Lissa> because she's not letting me go to the pharmacy
17:41 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: if you don't get up and go to the pharmacy, yes, you are
17:41 <@polerin> you're not talking about authority
17:41 <@polerin> you're talking abou autonomy
17:41 <@Lissa> i'm about to display my authoritay.
17:41 <@polerin> hehe
17:42 <@Dagmar> Lissa: Show her
17:42 < eryc> drugs are good mmkay
17:42 <@Dagmar> Drag her out by the har
17:42 <@Corydon76-dig> polerin: is this argument really more important than Lissa's well-being?
17:42  * Lissa gives erin puppy dog eyes and sniffles
17:42 <@polerin> I'm good to go.  I said I was leaving and dag keeps calling me a smelly hippie
17:42 < eryc> a lot of things are more important
17:42 <@polerin> :)
17:42 <@Dagmar> polerin: There's a difference between autonomy and authority.
17:42 <@polerin> Dagmar: I know :)
17:42 <@Lissa> smelly..yes...hippie..only when you're hugging trees
17:42 <@nachoguy> that's disgusting.  why would you infect her with the flu and then give her the contents of a canine's occular cavities?
17:42 <@polerin> Dagmar: autonomy is the state of being self-governed
17:43 <@Lissa> i has no flu.  i has sinus/ear infection...and it's quite detrimental to me singing
17:43 <@Dagmar> It's also not a social construct.
17:43 <@Lissa> and since i'm doing that a lot lately..i must go
17:43 < eryc> dont eat poop
17:43 <@Lissa> ew
17:43 < eryc> just a reminder
17:43 <@Lissa> heh
17:43 <@polerin> considering that if you're not autonomous, you are under someone elses AUTHORITY, then yes, it is a social construct :)
17:43 <@Lissa> i think i'm good on that one
17:44 <@Lissa> k..i'm walking out to my truck
17:44 <@Dagmar> From the point of view you're arguing, it's strictly solipsistic.
17:44 <@polerin> back later
17:44 < eryc> watch out for yellow snow
17:44 <@polerin> no
17:44 <@polerin> it's not solipsistic.  I'm not saying that nothing else matters
17:44 -!- nachoguy changed the topic of #se2600 to: <eryc> dont eat poop | <eryc> just a reminder
17:44 <@polerin> and there is nobody else other than me
17:44 <@Dagmar> People can be sway to whoever they damn well please, but the concepts for a society apply to *everyone*
17:44 <@polerin> I'm saying that there is no inherent authority to self-governance.
17:45 <@Dagmar> You don't get to say "This applies to everyone but the subject"
17:46 <@Dagmar> This is one of those things that if you're not listning to some guitar-playing longhair at the park too much, becomes rather self-evident.
17:46 <@Dagmar> "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." and so on.
17:46 <@Dagmar> Responsibilty arises naturally from authority.
17:46 <@Dagmar> You have authority over yourself.  You have responsibility as a result.
17:47 <@Dagmar> Sacrifice either and you are no longer much above a slave.
17:47 <@Dagmar> Sacrifice or forfiet responsibilitiy and you are an animal.
17:48 <@Dagmar> Children are regularly excused from lapses of responsbility becuase they don't have the authority to make their own decisions.
17:48 <@Dagmar> We expect them to gain responsibility, so they can handle the authority over self that comes from being an adult, so they don't turn into bloody animals on us.
17:49 < eryc> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3126/2848793719_734622b387.jpg?v=0
17:50 < eryc> Dagmar: i dont think anyone is listening anymore
17:51 <@Dagmar> That's fine.
17:51 < eryc> tho i am inspired to go listen to some guitar-playing longhair at the park
17:51 <@Dagmar> She can read the scrollback later.
17:51 <@Dagmar> At least I was able to type it without someone snarking off about mortgages
17:52 <@Dagmar> ...and I'm really tired of the damn hippies that think anarchy means you can do whatever the fuck you like.
17:52 <@Dagmar> Those are people who want authority without responsibility, and like I said a moment ago, those people are children.
17:53 < eryc> i personally like the "do whatever the fuck you like" philosophy
17:54 -!- nightcarnage [n=nightcar@c-68-52-192-120.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["L8r Yo"]
17:54 <@Dagmar> eryc: That would be a lack of morals, principles and ethics.
17:54 <@Dagmar> Not even wikipedia is that naieve
17:55 < eryc> well i think you can still have those, but they become optional
17:56 <@sasquatc4> but then it spreads, you have the few that start out without them, but to be on a level playing ground everyone must come down to that level, or else you can be overrun
17:56 <@Dagmar> Well, it's probably not helping that I look on systems of philosphy and organization as if they were equations.
17:57 <@Dagmar> ...because frankly, when you can reduce these things down to a fundamental set of concepts or _flaws_ you can tell pretty easily when and why something will go off the rails.
17:57 <@Dagmar> Long, long ago I figured out that there was nothing but fail in trying to treat self as different from the others in the context of society.
17:58 <@Dagmar> You're either a member of a society, in which case all the rules apply, or you're an outsider.
17:58 <@Dagmar> "less than all" the rules applying still makes one an outsider, and probably a parasite.
17:59 <@Dagmar> So, as with most maths, you reduce things to a very simple set of propositions, and that "does not apply to me" doctrine fails miserably at every turn.
18:00 -!- R3d2Dawn [n=R3d2Dawn@68.186.137.207] has joined #se2600
18:02 <@sasquatc4> yup, reminds me of that article i saw last week on an analysis of traffic patterns
18:02 <@sasquatc4> if everyone abides by what is good for the overall commute, which the division between various routes being what they need to be and everyone driving at the proper speed and manner, a commute can be done very efficiently and quickly
18:02 <@Dagmar> Someone falling into the trap of coming up with exceptions for everything?
18:02 <@Dagmar> sasquatc4: Yeah pretty much the same deal
18:03 <@sasquatc4> but the moment you introduce drivers that drive only for themselves, cutting people off, driving over the speed limit excessively forcing others to make corrections for them, then it all breaks down
18:03 <@Dagmar> It's the assholes who want to get ahead of one guy that fuck it up for everyone
18:03 <@Dagmar> They want to make the exceptions for themselves, without realizing that it basically comes back around immediately on them
18:04 <@sasquatc4> yup
18:04 <@Dagmar> Part of the "aha" point on that for me was that I was in a sociology class and watched someone figuratively faceplant an argument
18:04 <@Dagmar> They were comparing two societal groups.
18:05 <@Dagmar> One wholly separate from themselves, and one they were a part of.
18:05 <@Dagmar> They were attributing things of the foriegn group to all members of that society equally
18:05 <@Dagmar> ....but when it came to their *own* group, there was clearly an I/we separation going on.
18:05 <@Dagmar> A *bushman* called them on it.
18:06 <@sasquatc4> yea, theres a specific term for that, forget what it is, but we covered it in one of my anthropology classes
18:07 <@Dagmar> So if you're wondering what the fuck those tribal leaders in darkest africa sit around and do all day in between putting bones through various appendages, fighting off sabertoothed tigers, and digging holes, it's apparently _deep philosophical arguments_
18:07 <@Dagmar> ...which I thought was mightily impressive.
18:08 <@sasquatc4> hehe
18:08 <@Catonic> Dagmar: one of them spent a lot more time dealing with people in small, intimate groups of political divisions.
18:09 <@Dagmar> I would say so.
18:09 <@Dagmar> I'd also argue that in the jungle it might be a wee bit more important that everyone be on the "same page" about certain reasons for behaviour.
18:09 <@Catonic> When Bill, Sam, Sally, Alice, etc. are the only people around you for fifteen miles, you tend to start to understand people better.
18:11 <@Dagmar> I kinda felt like an ass later that I didn't think the guy would really have been into seriously abstract philosophical concepts.
18:11 <@Dagmar> ...and then I was like "NOW I see why this guy is leading a tribe"
18:12 <@Catonic> I find it odd that the argument against the asshole in traffic works.
18:12 <@Catonic> If all vehicles are moving at the same rate, with no change, then it makes sense that there is no conflict.
18:12 <@Catonic> However I rarely see anyone except myself follow "slower traffic move right".
18:13 <@Dagmar> I am faster traffic.  :)
18:14 <@Dagmar> Catonic: The problem is basically that in traffic, any time someone makes a decision that puts their needs ahead of some other person's needs, there will be lag caused by the other people having to figure out that the other person is a jackass.
18:15 <@Catonic> I agree... it's really tedious to keep looking in your rearview mirror...
18:17 <@Dagmar> I say this not because people are laggy, but because the people who *aren't* acting in self-interest over the common good are generally not doing anything much but maintaining a constant speed
18:17 <@Dagmar> If ther'es a merge coming up, and everyone involved is paying attention, it'll go as evenly as people can make it.
18:18 <@Dagmar> ...except for the ass who thinks that he should cut off the other lane so that he can stay right behind the guy in front of him
18:19 <@Dagmar> That makes the other lane slow down more than they need to (wasted energy speeding back up) and causes his own lane to have to speed up slightly, when they will simply slow down again in a moment (more wasted gas)
18:20 <@sasquatc4> heres the article, http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080904-selfish-driving-causes-everyone-to-pay-the-price-of-anarchy.html
18:21 <@Dagmar> OOoohhh bad use of the word anarchy there
18:21 <@Dagmar> Anarchy is not a non-society.
18:22 <@Dagmar> it's kind of a dumb-as-shit word to make up, but Wikipedia has this entry for "omniarchy" I'm really thinking sums that up better
18:22 <@Catonic> Dagmar: the fundamental problem is that most people don't pay attention. Watch any place where you see the lane go away in a force merge...
18:23 <@Dagmar> It's as close as one can get to actually describing what happens when people start thinking the rules of their own society only apply to the other members.
18:23 <@Catonic> people will drive until the paint starts to triangle, put on the turn signal, and if it isn't clear, they step on the brakes!
18:23 <@Dagmar> Catonic: Yeah I see a lot of people not paying attention, but I also see a lot of people from out of town, and a lot of people who can't see over the motherfucking SUV brigade that is the six oversized monsters in front of them.
18:24 <@Dagmar> You can ask Rattle about this one...  One of the weirdest things we saw in Cali was people zipper merging *without fail*
18:24 <@Dagmar> Like, if two lanes had to merge, it was universally the guy on the left, then the guy on the right, then the guy on the left, and so on.
18:25 <@Dagmar> Here, if there's a "slow" car and a "sportscar" you can just about guarantee the guy who thinks his car is sportier (or who is driving an SUV) will be a dick and make it 2-4 cars from the left lane
18:26 <@Dagmar> Catonic: They didn't merge particularly early there, they just merged _properly_
18:26 <@Dagmar> I think it had a lot to do with the interstate there was pretty much always 72F and breezy
18:26 <@sasquatc4> yea, same thing happens here, for the most part everyone does the zipper, but every so often there is the jackass that decides he is special and fucks it all up
18:26 <@Dagmar> Radio on a nice station, excellent weather, windows down... who gives a fuck if you spend an extra five minutes hanging out in the car
18:27 -!- Falun [i=HydraIRC@c-76-17-127-225.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
18:27 <@Dagmar> On parts of I-40 in the summer I swear you can smell Hell.
18:28 < Falun> it's probably paper plants
18:28 <@sasquatc4> i hate the brakers tho, because of one of them i was in my first accident at 17, was in the far left lane zipping along, and some reason the dude in front of me decided he desperately needed to exit, and since no one would let him over, it was time to slam on the brakes and stop traffic in that lane
18:28 <@Dagmar> I wonder fi anyone's done a study correlating weather and/or "prevalence of aromas" to traffic manners
18:28 < Falun> err, paper mills
18:28 <@sasquatc4> luckily i stopped just short of his bumper, but the person behind me hit me, and so i hit him, and since i was 17, of course i still got a ticket for some reason since it must have been my fault some how
18:28 <@Dagmar> sasquatc4: I've had to just stop traffic before like that
18:29 <@Catonic> There's a paper mill off of I95 near Brunswick, GA
18:29 <@Dagmar> ...just because I'd already gone a mile with my signal on, and the exit was going to be a 30 degree direction change already
18:29 <@sasquatc4> well its one thing to stop traffic when your one lane away from the exit, or pretty close, this was in the far left lane on a 4 or 5 lane interstate
18:29 <@Dagmar> Since then I've learned to roll down a window and start "expressing myself"
18:30 <@Dagmar> sasquatc4: they probably misplanned and should have just gotten off at the next one
18:30 <@sasquatc4> yup, but the next one wasnt good enough for them
18:32 <@Catonic> Dagmar: I start driving like in NASCAR when they are knocking the rocks off the tires
18:32 <@Catonic> way I figure is, they'll assume I am insane and try to avoid contact
18:32 <@Dagmar> hehe
18:33 <@Catonic> I really miss driving the old cop car.
18:34 <@Catonic> With a worth of $2500, there's just not alot lost in an accident.
18:35 <@Catonic> and if you get forced off the road, unless the engine is damaged, you stand an excellent chance of catching up to the other driver and forcing them off the road.
18:35 <@Catonic> I've taken to launching off the on-ramps.
18:35 <@coil> lololl
18:35 <@coil> see that's why i want one
18:36 <@coil> cuz texans dont know how to drive
18:36 <@Catonic> as soon as I can go WOT, I'm on it and accelerating.
18:36 <@coil> dont know how to yeild
18:36 <@Catonic> coil: pretty funny how, when there's a police car nearby, people suddenly remember all the rules they learned when they were sixteen.
18:36 <@Dagmar> I just twist good and hard
18:37 <@coil> that's so annoying when people go the same speed as the cop or slower even in the left lane
18:37 <@coil> so no one can pass and everyone is all huddled up
18:40 <@Catonic> I've come to realize that am I probably far from the average driver.
18:41 < eryc> yea you suck
18:41 <@coil> Catonic: is mega uber leet super driver
18:41 <@coil> level 57
18:41 <@Catonic> I've been to defensive driving and autocrossing schools. I've driven a retired police car and learned how the police officers drive.
18:41 < eryc> epic armors?
18:42 <@coil> Catonic: what if i steal a cop car, can you drive?
18:42 <@coil> to evade police
18:42 < eryc> yea coil is going to rob a bank
18:42 <@Catonic> And I've actually studied physics and efficency a little, so I avoid losing momentum if possible.
18:42 <@coil> you'd get half
18:43 <@Catonic> coil: drive a mustang.
18:43 <@coil> what year
18:43 <@Catonic> unless a Vic has a lot of weight in the trunk, it will likely handle like a Mustang.
18:43 < eryc> mustangs suck
18:44 <@coil> i want a vic
18:44 <@Catonic> eryc: I didn't say I liked them.
18:44 <@coil> caprice iws too old
18:44 <@Catonic> dude, the caprice still gets a few people out of your way.
18:44 <@Catonic> I just refuse to put gas in the fucking thing.
18:44 <@coil> make it run on bio diesel
18:45 < eryc> i like my car
18:45 <@coil> no my car > yours
18:45 < eryc> word
18:46 < eryc> i got 280hp
18:46 < eryc> thats a lot of horsies
18:46 <@Catonic> I've got 512HP.
18:47 < eryc> uh oh
18:47 < eryc> in the cop car?
18:47 <@coil> i got 1024
18:47 <@Catonic> ... in three cars.
18:47 <@Catonic> 260, 210, and 42.
18:48 <@coil> i got 2048
18:48 < eryc> i prefer to talk in camel power
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18:49 <@Catonic> my nipples are hard.
18:49 < eryc> we should use camels instead of horses because its cheaper to get camels from the middle east than it is to make horses in alaska
18:49 <@coil> ololololol
18:49 <@coil> good one eryc
18:51 <@Catonic> eryc: what do you drive?
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18:54 <@Dagmar> OKay, I have to share this because it's too funny
18:55 <@Dagmar> You know how some people actually do say "gosh darnit" or "ape crazy" or "bat shirt"....
18:55 <@Dagmar> I just saw someone call someone else a "pickle kisser"
18:55 <@Dagmar> rofl
18:58 <@Catonic> lol
19:03 <@rattle> Oh my fucking god.
19:03 <@rattle> The fed is bailing out AIG.
19:03 <@rattle> $85b
19:03 <@Dagmar> Oh no
19:03 <@Dagmar> That's lame as fuck
19:03 <@Dagmar> Can we call off the war to pay for the financial idiocy yet?
19:04 -!- Digitalirony [n=eric@nat/digium/x-b02655ecd29d51db] has quit ["Leaving."]
19:05 < eryc> not to worry. in the long run a few more years of not paying the debt is going to make much of a difference
19:05 < eryc> *is not
19:05 < eryc> its going to take decades to pay off as it is!
19:09 < eryc> when america cranks up the factories again we'll be putting on little stickers that say "Made in USA (Terrority of China)"
19:09 <@Dagmar> rattle: You may have noticed I got a response back from someone over at twincities.
19:09 <@Dagmar> rattle: I've now dropped a "wall of text" onto indymedia-us-editors.
19:09 <@Dagmar> rattle: Should be funny as fuck to see what happens to "Erik"
19:12 < eryc> they will commend him for being a strong minded hero
19:12 < eryc> "accolades to you sir Erik!"
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19:44 < nated0g> what up everyone
19:56 <@brimstone> fixing openvpn :D
20:03 < eryc> irony?
20:03 <+MxZBot> irony is that out of most everything I've done, the one thing I've done for myself, against all voices otherwise, was to buy my old police car.
20:03 < eryc> 20:12 < eryc> "accolades to you sir Erik!"
20:03 < eryc> 20:17 -!- DigitalIrony [n=eric@nat/digium/x-31a18ce6b29a9b70] has joined #se2600
20:03 < DigitalIrony> ?
20:04 < DigitalIrony> whatsup
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20:20 <@sdodson> WHAT WHAT?!
20:44 <@rattle> The ownership society.
20:44 <@rattle> Interesting.
20:45 <@Dagmar> Ownership society?
20:45 <@rattle> Yeah..  That thing the Bush Administration used to talk about all the time.
20:45 <@Dagmar> Ah
20:45 <@rattle> I think it's one of the ideas they got elected on.
20:45 <@Dagmar> Having trouble finding context
20:46 <@rattle> Now, unless all the drug use and drinking over the years has fried by brain...
20:46 <@rattle> I think two of the big five investment firms have been nationalized.
20:46 <@rattle> At least, that's one way of looking at it.
20:46 <@Dagmar> Ah...
20:47 <@rattle> And the big five, is now actually the big four.
20:47 <@Dagmar> I'm still wondering about how it is that someone can fall behind on their mortgage and lose their home, but still be expected to pay that mortgage, but...
20:47 <@Dagmar> ...a big business loses all of it's money, and the gov't just gives 'em bags of cash.
20:47 <@rattle> And the backers of all the bad mortgages, those have been nationalized too...
20:47 <@rattle> And apparently, everything I thought I knew about economics is wrong.
20:48 <@Dagmar> Nope.
20:48 <@rattle> Because none of this looks like the free market type things those in power seem to support..
20:49 <@Dagmar> That's becuase to them "ownership society" means "we own everything"
20:49 <@rattle> Yeah..  That's what I was saying.
20:50 <@Dagmar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ownership_society
20:51 <@Dagmar>     * patients have control of [decisions on] their personal health care,
20:51 <@Dagmar>     * parents control [i.e. have power over] their children's education, and
20:51 <@Dagmar>     * workers control [i.e. have some responsibility for the investment of, or explicit property rights in] their retirement savings.
20:51 <@Dagmar> ...and the government owns everything else.
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20:56 <@Dagmar> You know I begin to think the reason they threw Palin out there was because the media would be too busy saying "OMGOMGOMGSHE'SNUTSOMGOMG" to pay attention to a single word Obama says
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21:13 < eryc> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/world/asia/15brainscan.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
21:24 <@ziplock> they intend to lose, how else could they screw up the campaign so badly.  They want to leave the mess for the Dems, and then say "you raised our taxes just like we said you would"
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21:34 < eryc> http://www.mccainpedia.org/index.php/Count_the_Lies
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23:00 <@Catonic> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-QevraCQUc
23:13 < cwire> ha nice
23:13 <@critch> anyone else seeing 20+% packet drop on comcast?
23:13 <@Catonic> critch: just you, you evil torrenting biatch
23:14 <@critch> I have no torrents running for the last month
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23:33 <@dasunt> Hmmm.
23:34 <@dasunt> I think TV and action movies have given people an unrealistic view of how much abuse the human body can take.
23:35 <@dasunt> Just had a conversation where I tried to explain that an adult male hitting someone else in the head with a metal pipe can be fatal.
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23:38 <@sdodson> dasunt: no way, really?
23:39 <@sdodson> dasunt: what's new in your world?
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23:42 <@dasunt> Nothing much.
23:42 <@dasunt> Almost out iof booze.
23:52 <@Catonic> eck.
23:52 <@Catonic> how do you manage to lose weight while swilling booze?
23:52 <@ShadowHntr> steer clear of hard liquor + redbull :P
23:52 <@ShadowHntr> that'll mess up your heart
23:55 <@Catonic> ShadowHntr: how old are you again?
23:56 < cwire> i hope jager isn't considered hard liquor
23:56 < cwire> cause i'm fucked
23:59  * Catonic wonders how many people in IRC are prone to drinking.
--- Log closed Wed Sep 17 00:00:12 2008