--- Log opened Thu Sep 27 00:00:02 2007
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04:08 <@ShadowHntr> ware lost his job?
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06:15 <+coil> jki
06:15 <+coil> hi
06:16 <+coil> lmnop
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07:38 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
07:51 <@Dolemite> Whee!  Power blinks are fun!
07:53 <@ladymerlin> you had one too?
07:53 <@ladymerlin> we jsut had one here
07:53 <@Dolemite> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7HCIGFdBt8
07:53 <@Dolemite> Giraffe Fight!
08:39 < rattleX> Morning folks..
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08:42 <@brimstone> if you insist
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09:03 <@ladymerlin> whee
09:11 <@Evilpig> hahah.  sexretary so dumb...
09:11 <@Evilpig> "these tvs don't have power buttons.  I can't turn them on without a remote"
09:12 <@Evilpig> so I came into the office felt around the edges and found the power button on the top.  turned all three on then laughed at her as I was walking into the shop
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09:20 <@baudburn> "What? the land of the free? who ever told you that is the enemy!"
09:29 <@rattle> Driving under the influence of cough suppressants is way more fun that driving drunk or stoned..
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10:26 <@Dolemite> Ok, who will be wearing one of these at PhreakNIC?
10:26 <@Dolemite> http://www.yugster.com/?TRK=DTK&bid=569&aid=CD6666&opt=1
10:26 <@brimstone> is it a tobogan?
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10:27 <@brimstone> so, not a tobogan...
10:38 <@Evilpig> hahaha
10:48 <@baudburn> lah
10:48 <@baudburn> er blah
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11:43 <@Dagmar> There is nothing socially redeemable that you could display on a scrolling LED belt-buckle.
11:46 <@brimstone> "not a tobogan"
11:46 <@Dagmar> "Try the sausage"
11:46 <@Dagmar> "powered by wang"
11:46 <@Dagmar> "secret sauce inside"
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11:48 <@critch> figures that comment would attract Corydon
11:48 <@Dagmar> yep
11:49 <@Corydon76-lap> eh?
11:50 <@Corydon76-lap> I would have been on earlier, but my desktop here seems to have bit the dust
11:50 <@critch> 11:46 <@Dagmar> "secret sauce inside"
11:50 <@Corydon76-lap> or at least, the video card doesn't want to do X anymore
11:50 <@brimstone> X is overrated anyway
11:51 <@Corydon76-lap> and it won't fully boot up, either
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11:53 < Synx_hm> WTF is title insurance
11:53 < Synx_hm> and how is whats on my HUD as being paid by the sell different from what they want me to pay for
11:53 <@critch> as in when buying a house?
11:53 < Synx_hm> yar
11:54 <@critch> it is insurance that someone doesn't have a claim on the property through previous liens or treaties.
11:54 < Synx_hm> i have it on my settlement agreement as being paid by the seller, why do i have to get my own?
11:55 <@critch> That would be a good question to ask your realtor
11:55 < Synx_hm> shes a bitch
11:55 < Synx_hm> shes the one who says i should get it
11:55 <@critch> You will want to make sure that what is paid for names you as the beneficiary
11:55 <@Evilpig> realtors will fuck you given the chance
11:55 < Synx_hm> im going to be not very happy at closing in an hour when this shit comes up
11:56 < Synx_hm> ya im calling the title company right now
11:56 <@critch> yeah, good plan to talk to the title company
11:56 < Synx_hm> i gave up and got a louisiana drivers license this morning, i feel so sooo dirty
11:57 <@Evilpig> oh I remember how mine got me.  there is a warranty you can get when you buy a house for shit that goes wrong right away like say...  $5000 in a/c bills.  but if you get it that much more comes out of the whore's cut.
11:57 <@Evilpig> so mine didn't tell me about it.  and it would have saved me alot of problems with a roof and a/c that crapped out.
11:58 < Synx_hm> those fuckers
11:58 <@critch> umm, you can get home insurance outside of the purchase, and it shouldn't affect the commision of the realtor
11:59 <@Evilpig> not home insurance
11:59 <@Evilpig> it was a warranty that you can use should something happen that wasn't in the home inspection
11:59 <@Evilpig> I had to go back on my insurance to get the roof fixed.  the insurance wouldn't touch the a/c because it was just deemed out of life
12:00 < Synx_hm> wow that f'ing blows
12:00 <@Evilpig> even though it was inspected just before I bought it and they said with proper maint it would last another 10 years
12:00 <@critch> right, you can get that outside of the purchase, it works like insurance though, pay for it to cover the risk
12:00 <@critch> ahh, sounds like you had a case to go after the home inspector
12:00 <@Evilpig> in any case.  I didn't know til after the fact.  and I could have gotten the sellers to pay for it
12:01 <@Evilpig> home inspector said the a/c needed to be replaced.  I agreed if it was inspected and they would stand behind it I would go for it anyway.  after the sale the heating and air place mysteriously couldn't find the paperwork
12:01 < Synx_hm> this bitch is a buyers agent however i know she works with this builder all the time, fucker has it out for me
12:02 <@critch> is this a new house, or has other people owned it before?
12:03 < Synx_hm> me?  ya nwe home
12:03 < Synx_hm> new
12:03 <@critch> new homes cost tons more in closing costs
12:03 < Synx_hm> actually... all i have to pay is 680
12:03 < Synx_hm> w00t
12:03 <@critch> I spent something like $3k on closing for my house and the guy I bought from paid something like $13k for his closing on a brand new house
12:03 < Synx_hm> but the f'ing realtor put i paid prepays when i wanted... up to 2500 in closing and prepaids paid by seller
12:04 <@Evilpig> i'm just saying don't trust realtor's
12:04 <@Evilpig> and apparently the power at my house just flickered.  or my PC just reset randomly
12:04 < Synx_hm> i agree
12:04 <@Dagmar> Well, it used to be owned by a nice couple who mysteriously disappeared one night during a storm where a very strange fog was reported.  Three full sets of clothes were found rumpled in piles on the property, and the dog collar.  It is assumed they just decided to move to Canada without telling anyone.
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12:05 <@Evilpig> mysterious fog is better than the mob I guess
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12:05 <@Dagmar> Check it... Dave Ramsey is starting to swing his baton about these paycheck loan advance and title loan places
12:06 <@Dagmar> This would be very cool if he could raise enough support to make that shit illegal here
12:06 <@Evilpig> dream on.  they prey on the stupid.  and you know damn good and well you can't prevent stupid
12:08 <@Dagmar> Yes, but you can legislate it illegal to do so in each particular way
12:08 <@Dagmar> This is one of the few states you're allowed to do that shit in
12:08 <@critch> of course with the various banking fees going up, whose to say the paycheck places aren't a better option than screwed up banking. Granted neither is a good option compared to proper money management
12:08 <@Dagmar> Those guys *on average* see a 700% return
12:08 <@Dagmar> The cash-your-check-here places are never a good deal
12:09 <@Dagmar> At *best* you can expect to pay them 5% off the top of your check
12:09 <@Dagmar> As much as 15% if you haven
12:09 <@Dagmar> As much as 15% if you haven't been there before.
12:09 < Synx_hm> i think theres some law about them with DoD people
12:09 < Synx_hm> like percentage rates they cant go over or something
12:09 <@Corydon76-lap> Give people better options and they won't go to those places
12:09 <@Dagmar> The cash advance places are basically in business because way more than half of their customers wind up not managing to pay when they're supposed to
12:10 < Synx_hm> also i think therers protection from car dealers and military members getting f'ed
12:10 <@Corydon76-lap> If people can't make ends meet on minimum wage, that's an indication that the minimum wage needs to be raised
12:10 < Synx_hm> So its, Lenders Insurence thats on my HUD and not Buyers Insurence, is that normal practice
12:10 <@critch> okay, so since BoA charges a $28 NSF fee, and a check will hit twice before being denied, you get 56 fee from the bank on any check bounced, check cashing place that charges 15% will only take $30 for $200 check
12:10 <@Dagmar> Yeah, but it would help if people weren't given these sneaky options that let them dig a deeper hole for themselves really fast
12:11 <@Dagmar> critch: But if you simply don't write a check that will bounce, most places give you that two weeks with at most a 2% penalty
12:11  * eryc gives away sneaky shovels
12:11 <@Dagmar> Comcast and NES's late fees are like $3-5
12:12 <@Corydon76-lap> If you have a problem with people being stupid, then you should seek to educate them
12:12 <@critch> Dagmar: right, but what is the fee at Krogers?
12:12 <@Dagmar> Corydon76-dig: Which puts us in direct competition with the people who have a financial interest in having them be stupid
12:12 < eryc> i pay taxes for schools to educate them
12:12 <@Dagmar> Fuck that
12:12 <@Dagmar> Make it illegal
12:13 <@Dagmar> critch: Whatever Kroger's charges.  If they can't afford food they CAN get food stamps
12:13 <@Corydon76-lap> Dagmar, the people in business have greater funds available to lobby legislators.
12:13 <@Corydon76-lap> Education is free
12:13 <@Dagmar> Corydon76-dig: AH so again it comes down to the "we're all too chickenshit to do anything more than declare it hopeless"
12:13 <@Corydon76-lap> No, it's called letting the market take care of it
12:13 <@critch> Dagmar: not if they are mismanaging their finances. Some make enough money to not be on food stamps, and yet continue to waste money on non-"needs"
12:13 <@Dagmar> There's a reason this shit is illegal in other states.
12:13 <@Dagmar> Get some fucking clue already.
12:14 <@Corydon76-lap> If you educate people not to go to these places, then the market drives them out of business
12:14 <@Dagmar> You can't "educate" people for that for free, because the grifters use commercials, billboards, and advertising to spread what amounts to misinformation
12:15 <@Corydon76-lap> Can you name a single advertisement which doesn't result in misinformation?
12:15 <@Dagmar> Drugs that are bad for you have lots of educational programs telling kids that they're bad.
12:15 <@Dagmar> Irrelevant argument
12:15 <@critch> and plenty of drug companies advertising ask your doctor
12:15 <@Dagmar> Yet kids still do crystal meth
12:15 <@Dagmar> ALthough we've made it illegal
12:15 <@Corydon76-lap> By your logic, we should make all advertising illegal
12:16 <@Dagmar> Yet you idiots want to say there's no way we can make the title-loan and cash-advance places illegal
12:16 <@Dagmar> ...and more than half the other states have already made them illegal.
12:16 <@Dagmar> reality sides with me.
12:16 <@Corydon76-lap> You can, but it's not a very good solution
12:16 <@critch> I didn't say we couldn't, I say we shouldn't
12:16 <@Dagmar> You guys are stupid
12:16 <@SkyDog_> My dad can kick your dad's ass.
12:16 <@Corydon76-lap> You drive the business underground and suddenly we have a MUCH worse problem with loan sharking
12:17 <@Dagmar> Now that's a new low in stupid argumentation
12:17 <@Corydon76-lap> At least in the current situation, Vinny isn't out breaking knees because the people borrowing money didn't pay back on time
12:17 <@Dagmar> Vinny can be arrested for breaking knees.
12:17 <@Dagmar> Congratulations you're now arguing that the key to keeping Vinny from breaking knees is to make his business model legal.
12:17 <@Corydon76-lap> legal and regulated
12:18 <@Corydon76-lap> I'd argue the same for what are now illegal drugs
12:18 <@Dagmar> Saying it's legal is stupid because DUH it is
12:18 <@Corydon76-lap> Make them legal and regulated and we'll stop people cutting cocaine with arsenic
12:18 <@Dagmar> "Regulated" in this case, doesn't mean shit because the same stupid rules that Vinny would have used before are still being used
12:18 <@Dagmar> 700% returns
12:18 <@Dagmar> Mathematical fact.
12:19 <@Corydon76-lap> I disagree with the notion that banning things makes problems go away
12:19 <@Corydon76-lap> That's clearly not the case with drugs, why would it work for bad loans?
12:19 <@Dagmar> yes, but I think we've established you're unable to see the difference between "absolutely gone" and "rare"
12:19 <@Dagmar> Drugs are rare.
12:19 <@Corydon76-lap> Oh, drug use is rare?
12:19 <@Corydon76-lap> BWAHAHAHAHHAHA
12:20 <@Dagmar> ...compared to the prevalence of peanut butter
12:20 <@Dagmar> Wait, why am I wasting my time even talking to your dumb ass
12:20 <@Dagmar> You're no better than cerkit
12:21 <@critch> I believe cerkit is much worse than everyone here, well maybe not ware
12:22 <@Corydon76-lap> Dagmar, has the status of pot as illegal prevented you from obtaining it?
12:22 <@critch> it is going to be difficult to tailor an argument to eliminate the payday places that doesn't also target credit card places and such.
12:23 <@Corydon76-lap> critch, I agree.  If you raise people's income, however, you'll avoid the problems that both cause
12:24 <@Corydon76-lap> or conversely, if you lower the costs associated with a living wage
12:24 <@critch> Corydon76-lap: I don't agree with that though. I am a prime example of ones standard of living expanding to use every bit of income
12:24 <@Dagmar> critch: no, it's actually quite easy.  Put a limit on the total fees that can be charged and require these places to perform credit reposibility audits and they all close up shop
12:24 <@Corydon76-lap> The problem is, ends don't meet.  If you help people make ends meet, they will not need to depend on bad loans.
12:24 <@critch> Dagmar: they won't close up shop for those, but that wouldn't be a bad start
12:25 <@Dagmar> critch: They're not explicitly illegal in most states--they're just not profitable
12:25 <@Corydon76-lap> critch, yes, but you make ends meet, and you have excess income that you use for extra toys.
12:25 <@critch> Corydon76-lap: ends meet when one drops things that are not necessities
12:25 <@Dagmar> Hold these places up to the same standards as any other lender, and they'll stop making loans they KNOW the borrower can't pay back on time
12:25 <@Dagmar> ...because they'll no longer be allowed to.
12:26 <@critch> Dagmar: now see, then reality is on my side then, properly regulated, there is still a market, just not one that everyone wants to be in
12:26 <@Corydon76-lap> critch, I'd agree with that approach
12:26 <@Dagmar> Remember about a year and a half ago I had the title to my car stolen and sold to one of these places
12:26 <@Corydon76-lap> Regulation, not prohibition
12:27 <@critch> how did someone get the title to your car?
12:27 <@Dagmar> I've been keeping an eye on those kinds of places since then
12:27 <@Dagmar> critch: Stole it from my car
12:27 <@Corydon76-lap> You keep your title in your car?
12:27 <@critch> why the hell did you have it in the car?
12:27 <@Dagmar> And really, I don't give a shit what you want to say about that
12:27 <@critch> You did something stupid and now you want to bitch
12:27 <@Dagmar> It was that junker Mirage I was driving around that wasn't even worth $500
12:28 <@Corydon76-lap> I keep titles in a safe deposit box, protected by a key, a bank, and my signature
12:28 <@Dagmar> No, I bitch because they weren't required to verify much beyond the fact that they had a title
12:28 <@Dagmar> It was the sleazy behaviour they tried to engage in after they found out they'd been defrauded that got my attention
12:28 <@critch> okay, so again we get back to a properly regulated industry should have fixed your problem
12:29 <@Dagmar> It's not often you have a man saying that regardless of how he came into possession of something that he's demanding you pay him to get it back like thta
12:29 <@Dagmar> He told me a bunch of shit I knew was illegal, so I felt free to tell him a bunch of shit that would make him worry for his life.
12:29 <@Dagmar> Problem solved.
12:30 <@Dagmar> Either way, I see these check-cashing places around my neighborhood and I know they're just preying on people who simply can NOT afford to be handing someone $300 next month for the "privilege" of paying a $50 bill today
12:31 <@Dagmar> Spend some time exceptionally broke and you'll find out how easy it is to get taken by people like that
12:32 <@Dagmar> These companies have no problem at all letting things get to a state where their "customer" effectively becomes their slave
12:32 <@Dagmar> You can ask NotLarry about that one.  He's stuck in a bind that's going to require a judge to clear up over some student loan shit that just can't possibly be legal
12:33 <@critch> but who forced these people into taking the loans?
12:34 <@Dagmar> Does it matter?
12:34 <@critch> sometimes pride must be overcome and these people need to learn what truely is a necessity
12:34 <@critch> yes it matters, I don't want to live in a nanny state
12:34 <@Dagmar> There's a difference between overcoming pride, and exploiting people in what is essentially a confidence game.
12:35 <@critch> I don't want the state hanging over every descision I make and vetting it as to how smart it is
12:36 <@critch> I think it is pride that has people continueing to pay for cable when they don't have the money for it. It is pride that they can't be any worse off than the jones
12:36 <@Dagmar> Me, I think I'd rather Jorge and Juanita Immigrant bounce a check and learn a lesson than spend a year struggling to pay off some "short term" loan they took out over a year ago.
12:36 <@Dagmar> That sort of shit makes Jorge much more likely to go bust out a window and take some shit
12:36 <@critch> ahh, but remember that a bounced check can wind you up in jail as well
12:37 <@Dagmar> "can" and "does" are too different things
12:37 <@Dagmar> I know someone who's been throught hat
12:37 <@Dagmar> They don't send you to jail for paying bills with bounced checks, but they do get pissy about it
12:37 <@critch> yeah, but think of who gets the fees for that bounced check and how much it costs.
12:37 <@Dagmar> The person who wrote the bad check winds up paying for everything.
12:37 <@Dagmar> ...and it's a fixed cost.
12:38 <@critch> umm, yeay, they send you to jail for bouncing checks regardless of who they are to if you can't pay them off
12:38 <@Dagmar> It's not something that snowballs to seven times the original amount.
12:38 <@Dagmar> critch: no, they don't.
12:38 <@Dagmar> There is a standard of intent that must be met
12:39 <@Dagmar> If you fucked up and miscalculated, no matter how messy it gets, they don't throw you into jail.
12:39 <@critch> Yes, so the $90 late light bill  incurs 2 $28 nsf fees, and then at least another $20 plus face value for the check. That is if you can pay it after the NSF fees you incured
12:39 <@Dagmar> I've known people who wound up nearly $800 in the negatives over bounced checks
12:40 <@Dagmar> If you write checks KNOWING that they'll bounce on the other hand, *that* is fraud and *that* they'll toss you in jail for if you can't reasonably be expected to be able to pay off the debt and fees
12:40 <@critch> If you just miscalculated, you usually can get out of the hole, but if you are too close to the edge, the entirety of the next check is still paying off the pank for the fees
12:40 <@critch> damn, I can't even claim fat fingeres for making bank into pank
12:42 <@Dagmar> I'm still baffled about why people even care if they are going to be late on paying a utility
12:42 <@ware> *yawns and streches* man its nice to wakeup at 12:45
12:43 <@Dagmar> It would probably be bad for the utilities if more people knew it, but they don't report to any credit bureay
12:43 <@Dagmar> If you need to pay the light bill late to be sure the check doesn't bounce, the cost is negligible
12:43 <@critch> right
12:43 <@critch> they also work out payment plans too
12:47 <@ware> yall had luck with monster.com?
12:47 <@Dolemite> ware : lewser!
12:47 <@critch> nope
12:47 <@ware> stfu h0e ima lookin for a job
12:47 <@Dolemite> oh, right
12:47 <@Dolemite> ware : jobless lewser!
12:47 <@ware> im not going back to flippin burgers
12:47 <@ware> haha
12:47 <@ware> its time to PROGRESS!
12:47 <@brimstone> not gonna get a McJob?
12:48 <@Dolemite> Well if you're looking for something in IT, you're going to have a super hard time finding anything part time
12:48 <@critch> and what education can you expect people to base a job off of?
12:48 <@Dolemite> Although you might actually want to go sign up at the temp agencies...  you'd be surprised how often they get calls for somebody that can reliably type on a computer
12:49 <@brimstone> and not try to eat the mouse
12:49 <@ware> thats what a few ppl have told me
12:49 <@ware> im lookin for the temp agencys online
12:50 <@Dolemite> well it helped me out quite a bit when I was at TTU
12:50 <@Dolemite> There was an auto parts place that needed someone to key in work orders when their main office person called in sick or was on vacation...  so after the first time I went there, they asked for me by name every time
12:50 <@ware> i can still do full time (40hrs/wk) if they can work around my schedule
12:50 <@ware> im taking classes @ night anyways
12:51 <@Dolemite> what's your schedule?
12:51 <@ware> classes start @ 4 M-Thurs
12:52 <@ware> til 730 or 9 usually
12:52 <@ware> so i was working 8-4 then on saturday mornings
12:52 <@Dolemite> Yeah, so that's not really a standard full time schedule for working
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12:52 <@Dolemite> Because if you have to be in class by 4, that means you have to leave work by 3 or 3:30
12:54 <@Dolemite> and if you work in Nashville, 2:30 or 3
12:55 <@Dolemite> https://www3.recruitingcenter.net/CLIENTS/VANDERBILT/publicjobs/CanGetJob.cfm?job_id=57453&req=LC57453
12:56 <@Dolemite> https://www3.recruitingcenter.net/CLIENTS/VANDERBILT/publicjobs/CanGetJob.cfm?job_id=57565&req=LC57564
12:57 <@Dolemite> that's all the help you get from me
12:58 <@SkyDog_> I'm not keen on helping much at this point. I'm still pretty pissed at him for just quitting.
13:00 <@Dolemite> Yeah, well, we can only beat him up about it if he manages to stick around.  If he has to move into a cardboard box then we won't even be able to do that.
13:01 <@ware> haha ill be fine
13:01 <@ware> ive got a good resume and excellent experience and communication skills for someone my age
13:02 <@ware> Dolemite: thanks
13:02 <@SkyDog_> But you have to find a job. Just cause you have a good resume doesn't mean you can easily find a job.
13:03 <@ware> well thats what im workin on
13:07 <@Corydon76-lap> I'll ditto on the temp agency.  It's how I started down my career path in programming
13:07 <@Corydon76-lap> (Cashier job turned into programming job)
13:11 <@baudburn> heh ware quit his jobby job?
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13:16 <@Corydon76-lap> baudburn, yeah, WITHOUT having another job lined up
13:17 <@baudburn> hah why?
13:17  * Evilpig waves goodbye to baudburn 
13:17 <@Corydon76-lap> an excellent question...
13:18 <@Corydon76-lap> We've all been advising him on how STUPID he was for quitting like that
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13:19 <@Dagmar>  
13:20 <@Evilpig> he'll be back in a sec
13:20 <@Evilpig> the firewall at the office and I are having a difference of opinions on what is acceptable behavior for it
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13:23 <@Evilpig> and it's out again.  god damnit.  pos!  fuck
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13:42 <@someninjamaster> skydog_ , Wizardpc : ping
13:46 <@ware> haha
13:46 <@ware> just got a callback and theyre setting up an interview
13:46 <@ware> *BAM*
13:49 <@Corydon76-lap> It's a third party contract for your old job
13:49 <@critch> sweet, twice the hell for half the pay
13:53 <@Evilpig> that would make me laugh
13:55 <@Evilpig> can anyone get to eopen.microsoft.com ?
13:56 <@critch> didn't we cover that before? You have to use https
13:56 <@critch> https://eopen.microsoft.com/EN/default.asp
13:57 <@Evilpig> it normally redirects
13:57 <@critch> well, then someone hacked/shutdown port 80 then
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14:10 <@brimstone> Corydon76-lap, or anyone else with perl knowledge in here?
14:10 <@Dagmar> yes
14:10 <@critch> yes
14:11 <@brimstone> ok, i'm using IO::Socket::INET as a key to a hashtable, but when i call keys %clients in a for loop, it returns it as a string, not the actual socket ref so i can't print to it
14:11 <@brimstone> i think keys is doing some translation for me that i don't want it to
14:11 <@Dagmar> Yes, that's likely
14:12 <@critch> keys should be strings
14:12 <@Dagmar> I think you probably shoudln't be using the sockets as keys, tho
14:12 <@brimstone> is there any other identifier i could use in the hash table then?
14:12 <@Dagmar> Yeah and a socket is definitely not a string scalar
14:12 <@Dagmar> brimstone: tuple pair, if you like
14:12 <@brimstone> i guess i could do another hashtable with some unique string->socket conversion...
14:13 <@critch> Why not have an array with (socket,what other value you have) as the value
14:14 <@Dagmar> indeed
14:14 <@critch> You are still going to loop over it, you just then are looking for where arry[0] == socket
14:15 <@critch> sorry, ruby and not needing $ in front of variables is creeping out again
14:15 <@brimstone> i'm oftly fond of hashes
14:15 <@brimstone> but an array would work
14:16 <@Dagmar> I'm still baffled as to why you're doing it that way at all
14:16 <@critch> well, is there information from your sock that you could use to create a string and use it as the key?
14:16 <@brimstone> Dagmar, fair enough, here's the problem, i want to kill IO::Socket::INETs after 10sec of idle time
14:17 <@brimstone> i was just poking them into a hash to check at the end of the loop and close any "expired" ones
14:17 <@critch> under ruby I would make a to_s operator for the socket and use it to create the keys
14:17 <@Dagmar> So there's stuff built in to set timeouts
14:17 <@Dolemite> But it's much more fun to kill a random socket every 20s
14:18 <@Dagmar> Set the timeouts using the methods from the INET code like you're supposed to, and they'll get nabbed in the next pass of the select() loop
14:18 <@brimstone> horray! builtin code!
14:18  * brimstone is off to the man pages
14:19 <@Dagmar> You don't really often have to reinvent the wheel like that with perl
14:20 <@Dagmar> I can't remember much about it other than that's the sane way of doing it.  I had to write a facility to check an IRIX telnetd once
14:20 <@Dagmar> It's not RFC-compliant and REQUIRES the goddamn IAH handshake shit
14:20 <@Dagmar> ...so I had to have timeouts in the code seven ways from sunday
14:24 <@Corydon76-lap> Is there any way of doing more than one additional monitor off an Apple laptop?
14:26 < eryc> usb video cards?
14:26 < eryc> lolz
14:26 <@Dolemite> such a thing exists
14:26 <@critch> yep
14:26 <@brimstone> Dagmar, so, setting timeout => 5 doesn't seem to do anythihng
14:26 <@critch> http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/06/08/add_a_monitor_using_usb/
14:26 < eryc> uhm, ya i know
14:27 < eryc> its still a joke
14:27 <@Corydon76-lap> Well, the control panel will let you do multiple monitors... though I imagine most people only use that for desktops...
14:28 < eryc> seems to me software is the least of your concern
14:29 < eryc> maybe its too early for rationale
14:29 <@Corydon76-lap> No, software is the first concern... if the software won't support it, it's silly to spend the money on any hardware
14:30 <@critch> Corydon76-lap: http://www.upgradenation.com/StarTech_USB_2.0_TO_VGA_ADAPTER/USB2VGA/partinfo-id-565282.html
14:31 <@Dagmar> brimstone: It'll make an outgoing connection attempt die off after 5 seconds if it doesn't connect
14:31 <@Corydon76-lap> Heh, another frontend to Ingram Micro
14:31 <@brimstone> Dagmar, ok, this is on the server side, and there's a connection, but there's no data being passed over it
14:32 <@Dagmar> Okay so you need a read timeout
14:32 <@critch> Corydon76-lap: How 'bout this one that says it supports Mac OS 8.6 and greater http://www.xpcgear.com/usbtovga.html
14:32 <@brimstone> so, all the inet timeouts aren't gonna ever hit for me, and i need to write my own read timeout
14:32 <@Dagmar> ...or, at the most esoteric, an alarm handler you can push items in like a queue, and tie callbacks to destroy the socket into them
14:33 <@Dagmar> This is one of the ways in which it's simpler to fork
14:35 <@ware> LULZ W/ME K?
14:35 <@ware> got an interview 10am 2moro
14:35 <@ware> in laverne
14:35 <@ware> Dolemite: do you know about kswiring?
14:36 <@ware> automotive wiring harness plant or something
14:36 <@Dolemite> ware : Nope
14:36 <@Dolemite> But cool
14:36 <@critch> Corydon76-lap: there is also support in the linux kernel for those usb vga adapters
14:36 <@ware> aye
14:37 <@ware> said it was a small company that was growing fast with plenty of room to move up / around
14:37 <@Dolemite> that's cool
14:37 <@Dolemite> that would be a good opportunity for you
14:37 <@Dolemite> I did a lot of work in manufacturing plants as a consultant.  It gives you perspective.
14:38 <@Evilpig> plants suck
14:39 <@Evilpig> I've worked in food and chemical plants and both have just nasty areas that they want you to go into because they pay you
14:39 <@Evilpig> ..so they dont' have to
14:39 <@Evilpig> the room at dean foods where they test the milk.  ugh....  so nasty smelling
14:39 <@ware> google maps added a 'drag to change route' feature
14:40 < eryc> nice
14:40 <@critch> that is over a month old ware
14:40 <@Evilpig> yar
14:40 <@Dagmar> It's much nicer than giving people an "avoid the ghetto" checkbox when they're asking it for directions.
14:41 <@ware> i neva noticed
14:41 < eryc> haha
14:41 <@critch> Dagmar: yeah, but that avoid the ghetto checkbox would be nice when traveling to a place that we don't know where the ghetto is
14:42 <@Dagmar> That's what travel agents and friends who live there are for
14:42 <@Evilpig> could be money in making a site for people to report bad areas and then tie it into google maps via api
14:42 <@Dagmar> ...and you can always just search for "Martin Luther King Blvd" and stay far away from it
14:43 <@Dolemite> Now, now, that's being prejudicial
14:43 <@critch> Dagmar: I don't have friends in some cities I need to traverse while going to visit friends or for work
14:44 <@Dagmar> Dolemite: Cops in Atlanta pull white people over for not running the light at MLK just off Peachtree
14:44 <@Evilpig> Dolemite: look over there.  something is on your lawn
14:44 <@Dolemite> Bah.  It's not so bad.
14:44 <@Dagmar> It's bad even according to the drug dealers there
14:44  * Dolemite waves his fist in defiance and yells, "Get off my lawn, you damn whippersnappers!"
14:47 <@brimstone> Dagmar or critch, do either of you know of a way to pull a unique string out of a socket?
14:47 <@brimstone> like, it's memory location in hex or something?
14:48 <@Dagmar> Again, you don't really need to do this
14:48 <@brimstone> you were talking about alarm handlers and that got all crazy sounding
14:48 <@Dagmar> Any time you like, you can call the function that will tell you the IP address and port number of either side of the connection
14:48 <@Dagmar> This is called a tuple
14:48 <@brimstone> yes, i'm doing that already as an ACL
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14:49 <@brimstone> ACL type thing
14:49 <@Dagmar> If you need something like that *that* badly, you can construct a string like 192.24.21.41:4832-10.1.1.2:3714
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14:49 <@brimstone> ok
14:49 <@Dagmar> Use that as the hash key, with teh value being a reference to the socket
14:49 <@Dagmar> If you can't do references well, you'll never be able to write an alarm handler
14:58 <@Mirage> heh..boingboing has the same article listed twice at the top of the page right now
14:59 <@Dolemite> They do that quite often, it seems
14:59 <@Mirage> first time i've caught it then
15:00 <@Dolemite> first time I've seen them do it with the new layout
15:21 <@Evilpig> okay this might just get me fired.  I added another URL to the slideshow thing upfront.  and it could be NSFW http://firewall.icscci.com/~wilbur/test/lj.php?limit=50
15:22 <@Dolemite> You want to be fixed?  I think Skydog knows a urologist you can talk to...
15:22 <@Dolemite> Oh, you said fired.  Damn, we were all pulling for 'fixed'. ;)
15:22 <@Evilpig> i'm just trying to amuse myself really
15:23 <@Dolemite> Is this driftnet at your office?
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15:23 <@Evilpig> livejournal
15:23 <@Evilpig> I had driftnet running here for a while.  but it never empties what it grabs
15:25 <@Evilpig> I realized it a few months later and it was a bitch to empty the /tmp directory
15:28 <@Dolemite> Hrmm.  My 401K + 403b plans combined are now over $90K.  Add in my wife's and we're way past 6 figures.
15:28 <@Dolemite> It's good to be old.
15:34 <@Dolemite> The only thing is that I need 10x that to retire if I don't want to be eating green jello in the nursing home cafeteria
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15:42 <@brimstone> don't knock the jello
15:44 <@Evilpig> oh Dolemite who says you get a nursing home?  you're raising your son now...  you should be more worried about what sauce he is going to serve with you
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16:19 < Synx_hm> wellthats all done
16:19 < Synx_hm> w00t
16:19  * Synx_hm is a home owner
16:20 < remoford> congrats
16:21 < Synx_hm> thanks
17:01 <@Evilpig> what is the name of the live distro that has all the network scanning stuff built into it?
17:01 <@sdodson> bt2 or something
17:01 <@sdodson> back track
17:02 <@Evilpig> knoppix std?  is that it?
17:02 <@SkyDog_> Backtrack 2.
17:02 <@sdodson> knoppix std hasn't been  updated since the last time your haircut was in style
17:03 <@Evilpig> my hair was ever in style?
17:05 <@Evilpig> tubby you get me a time yet?
17:05 <@SkyDog_> Get you a time?
17:05 <@Evilpig> barrrrr b que
17:06 <@SkyDog_> when we're showing up? Hell if i know. Ask the event coordinator.
17:06 <@Evilpig> notlarry?
17:06 <+MxZBot> notlarry is a man among gods.
17:06 <@Pr0nStrGeek> speaking of getting a time... any golfers heading to phreaknic this year?
17:06 <@Evilpig> MxZBot: no.  notlarry isn't larry
17:06 <@SkyDog_> ladym
17:06 <+MxZBot> SCO makes more sense than you, Evilpig
17:07 <@Evilpig> stupid bot
17:07 <@Evilpig> MxZBot: no.  notlarry is not larry
17:07 <+MxZBot> okay, Evilpig
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17:15 < Synx_hm> i have no desire to start packing
17:15 < Synx_hm> ugh
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17:23 <@Shadow_Phone> anyone else work at a noc?
17:23 <@Shadow_Phone> just wondering if this week has been busier than usual or if its just internap
17:24 <@Mirage> just you
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17:26  * Shadow_Phone is exhausted
17:26 <@Shadow_Phone> running back to the DC every hour cause the techs are getting backed up with request to help them out
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17:40 < remoford> so apart from the /topic, does anyone have any leads on linux sysadmin style stuff in nashville atm?
17:54 <@Pr0nStrGeek> Shadow_Phone: I work in a NOC... and yeah... this work has been retarded...
17:54 <@Pr0nStrGeek> er... week...
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17:55 <@sdodson> incase you guys aren't aware, if you're running 64bit linux there's a trivial privilige escalation bug.
17:56 <@Pr0nStrGeek> the only 64 bit linux i'm running at the moment is at home...
17:57 <@Pr0nStrGeek> sdodson: kernel?
17:57 <@sdodson> kernel yes
17:58 <@Pr0nStrGeek> ia_64?
17:59 <@Pr0nStrGeek> or the x86_64?
17:59 <@sdodson> x86_64 atleast
18:00 <@brimstone> :(
18:00 <@sdodson> http://secunia.com/cve_reference/CVE-2007-4573/
18:00 <@Pr0nStrGeek> yeah... i just found it...
18:00 <@brimstone> works on 2.6.21-2-amd64
18:01  * brimstone looks for updates
18:01 <@brimstone> opengl is broken on this system anyway
18:01 <@sdodson> 64bit is evil anyway!
18:02 <@Pr0nStrGeek> lol...
18:05 <@Pr0nStrGeek> x86_64 mostly only sucks for me at kernel upgrades... because i have to remember what the hell i did the last time to make my video drivers work the last time...
18:05 <@Pr0nStrGeek> luckily, i upgraded my kernel like... 4 days ago... so it's fresh on my mind...
18:05 <@sdodson> yum upgrade
18:05 <@Pr0nStrGeek> well... yes =)
18:05 <@Pr0nStrGeek> but even the livna repo isn't 100% when it comes to the nvidia drivers...
18:06 <@Pr0nStrGeek> it's easier just to reinstall the nvidia driver from source and turn off the hardware cursor...
18:06 <@sdodson> ya, just wait a few days basically
18:06 <@Pr0nStrGeek> just... i have to remember to do it...
18:06 <@sdodson> they don't have that shit down for F8 :(
18:06 <@brimstone> Pr0nStrGeek, for nVidia, just download it off the site
18:06 <@brimstone> super easy then
18:06 <@sdodson> that overwrites some system files with badness
18:07 <@Pr0nStrGeek> and makes my mouse pointer disappear (which is why i keep my mouse in the mode where i can find it with the CTRL key)
18:08 <@Pr0nStrGeek> anyway... yes... i'm using yum to update my kernel right now...
18:08 <@Pr0nStrGeek> and downloading the nvidia driver... again =)
18:18 <@Pr0nStrGeek> imma fuck up vmware too =)
18:18 <@Pr0nStrGeek> ok... brb...
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18:21 <@Corydon76-lap> SkyDog_, ping
18:25 <@SkyDog_> pong. :)
18:26 <@Corydon76-lap> Heh
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18:31 <@Pr0nStrGeek> ok... all better =)
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18:34 <@brimstone> good job :P
18:34 <@Shadow_Phone> hmm, storm must of taken power offline at home
18:34 <@Shadow_Phone> brimstone: what was that about picking password hashes out of active directory?
18:36 <@Shadow_Phone> yeah, both my machine and scotchicks went down during the lighting storm
18:36 <@Shadow_Phone> but her's came up, same breaker, so it might just need me turning back on
18:36  * Shadow_Phone crosses finger it didnt get shocked
18:37 <@Shadow_Phone> *fingers, how do u cross your fingers with only 1 finger
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18:42 <@sdodson> Shadow_Phone: the power supplies probably have different hold up times and it was a very brief outage/sag
18:42 <@Shadow_Phone> agreed
18:42 <@Shadow_Phone> but both of my machines on the same outlet is down
18:42 <@Shadow_Phone> Scotchick's is on one nearby
18:43 <@Shadow_Phone> hope the outlet im on didnt get shocked somehow
18:43 <@sdodson> it's almost as if you didn't read what i said
18:44 <@Shadow_Phone> i know, if power goes on, diffrent power supplies can stay up longer in terms of nanoseconds
18:44 <@Shadow_Phone> basically based on capicitence size that it can take a power loss
18:45 <@Shadow_Phone> *out
18:45 < remoford> does anyone here still give a shit about nlug? honest opinions plz
18:45 <@Shadow_Phone> but all the machines lost power
18:45 <@sdodson> i think corydon does
18:45 <@Shadow_Phone> cause i had to relogin Scotchick's from remote
18:45 < remoford> apart form the hardcore
18:46 <@Shadow_Phone> but bluebox and dual_core are still down
18:46 <@sdodson> oh, so they all actually went down
18:46 < remoford> what about the old attendes that dont show up much
18:46 <@Shadow_Phone> sdodson: yes
18:46 <@sdodson> then the bioses of the other ones are configured differently
18:46 < remoford> have most of the nashville folks given up on it?
18:46 <@Shadow_Phone> sdodson: thats another possibility
18:46 <@sdodson> remoford: there's a good mix of hardcore people here and newbs.
18:47 <@sdodson> here being trilug
18:47 < remoford> im talking to dude in #nlug and there seems ot be some minor schizophrenia
18:47 < remoford> im wondering if ppl are still interested in community style stuff
18:47 < remoford> it would seem that they largly arent
18:48 < remoford> im hoping 10 ppl will jump up and prove me wrong
18:48 <@Mirage> such as?
18:48 < remoford> join #nlug and discuss, the dichomty between the professionals and the noobs is very apparent. we want to try and find some balance
18:49 < remoford> and not end up as a pure lecture circut
18:49 <@Mirage> network?
18:49 <+MxZBot> network is attacked. Thanks.
18:49 <@sdodson> MxZBot: oh no!
18:49 <+MxZBot> sdodson: wish i knew
18:49 <@Scotchick> sdodson: see this computer is on another outlet, probably another circuit as this was a room built for an office setting
18:50 <@Mirage> MxZBot: George Bush makes more sense than you!
18:50 <+MxZBot> Mirage: i don't know
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18:54 <@Shadow_Phone> heh, asked Scotchick to turn on my puters when she gets back from work by asking on a notepad i left maximized on her scren
18:54 <@Shadow_Phone> that should work since i have to stay late tonight
19:58 <@SkyDog_> evening all.
20:00 <@Mirage> shhh..time for greay's anatomy
20:00 <@Mirage> er, grey's
20:01 <@SkyDog_> Sorry. Didn't know.
20:01  * SkyDog_ takes a seat.
20:08 <@Evilpig> haha
20:08 <@Mirage> mm..merideth's little sister is hot
20:09 <@Evilpig> Mirage: do you get to keep your balls for htis or does she put them some place safe til it's over?
20:09 <@Mirage> what?
20:09 <@Evilpig> wait?!  you're watching this by yourself and not by chickpoint?
20:10 <@Mirage> yeah..and..?  actually i tried to get her to watch season 1/2 on dvd and she kept falling asleep.
20:10 <@Mirage> i have gotten her hooked on Eureka and Doctor Who, though
20:11 -!- dc0de [n=dc0de@c-76-97-62-119.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
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20:11 <@dc0de> mr0nin
20:14 -!- Shadow404 [n=Shadow40@c-76-20-208-226.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
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20:17 <@dc0de> what would you rather do or go fishing?
20:17 -!- Shadow404 [n=Shadow40@c-76-20-208-226.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20:18 <@Mirage> dc0de: was that intended to make sense to anyone but you?
20:18 <@dc0de> Mirage: because one man rode a horse, and one man rhododendron.
20:19 <@Mirage> whatever yer on..you need to save for phreaknic and share
20:19 <@dc0de> :P
20:19 <@dc0de> Mirage: remember seeing those older WWII spy movies?
20:20 <@dc0de> Where some spy goes and meets another spy and they say a phrase like, "The weather sure is blue lately..." and they expect a response?
20:20 -!- Shadow404 [n=Shadow40@c-76-20-208-226.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
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20:21 <@dc0de> traditional challenge response...
20:21 <@Mirage> yeah..but i think most of that stemmed from the military testing out LSD as an acuity drug for troops
20:21 <@dc0de> heh...
20:21 <@Shadow404> whew, so both my machines managed the lightning stormed fine, just put them on a ups
20:21 <@dc0de> what lightening storm?
20:22 <@Shadow404> one rolled through atlanta and out my way today
20:22 <@dc0de> huh...
20:22 <@Shadow404> i had the ups waiting a power down for a week now after i bought a new battery for it
20:23 <@Shadow404> so got the old ups from work
20:23 <@Shadow404> for free
20:23 <@dc0de> what kind?
20:24 <@Shadow404> and the battery for $35 dollars
20:25 <@Mirage> awesome..kid is trying to get the doctors to save a deer hit on the road, and the dad says "no, you don't save deer, you take them home, skin them, and put the in the freezer."
20:25 <@Shadow404> Triplite
20:25 <@Shadow404> Mirage: my dad would do the same thing
20:25 <@dc0de> Shadow404: not bad.
20:26 <@Shadow404> wild animals should be put out of their misery if they get involved in an accident and then eaten if its like a deer
20:26 <@dc0de> in a new york minute.
20:26 <@Mirage> Shadow404: anyone sensible would do the same thing..or if not themselves, take it to someone else who would
20:26 <@Shadow404> its a 750 amp
20:26 <@Shadow404> so should power to machines for about 5-10 minutes of a fresh battery
20:27 <@Shadow404> Mirage, : now if it was like a cat or dog or some other persons personal pet, thats another story
20:27 <@dc0de> still put it out of it's misery.
20:27 <@Mirage> yeah, you just shoot them and get a shovel
20:27 <@Shadow404> ive taken a dog to a vet before (not mine) called the owner in route and probably saved the dog
20:27 <@Mirage> Shadow404: bullet's are cheaper
20:28 <@Shadow404> you guys are awful
20:28 <@Shadow404> wild game i can understand
20:28 <@Shadow404> personal pets, there family
20:28 <@Shadow404> so what, are you vick supporters
20:28  * Shadow404 grasp personal handgun and awaits reply
20:28 <@Mirage> Shadow404: don't ever live on a farm
20:29 <@Shadow404> Mirage: dont plan it, i couldnt handle the way they treat animals
20:29 <@Shadow404> i cry and yell at the same time when i watch animal cops
20:29 <@Shadow404> and i can admit that
20:30 <@Mirage> Shadow404: the people they normally show on things like that should never have been allowed to have animals in the first place.
20:30 <@Shadow404> woot, downloaded the software for the ups, now i got a neat little status window on it in the taskbar icons
20:31 <@Mirage> If you are using things like that, and the whole 'commercial chicken farming', etc thing as a reference, then you're essentially clueless
20:31 <@Shadow404> no no no, im just explaining how senstive i am to animal abuse
20:31 <@Shadow404> ...very sensitive
20:31 <@Mirage> translation: pussy
20:32 <@Shadow404> heh, if thats what you personally call it fine
20:32 <@Shadow404> so, whats your view on vick?
20:32 <@Mirage> wtf is vick?
20:32 <@Shadow404> that football player
20:32 <@Shadow404> that got caught dog fighting
20:32 <@Mirage> the dog fighting?
20:33 <@Shadow404> aye
20:33 <@Mirage> the only good dog is a hunting dog..i doubt those were hunting dogs, so who cares
20:33 <@Shadow404> Mirage: damn, our views differ so much, oh well, thats what makes us human
20:35 <@Mirage> that's ok, i dont see how anyone could standing living in huge cities..just living in the suburbs of nashville drives me crazy
20:36 <@Shadow404> what does that have to do with dogfighting?
20:37 <@Mirage> if there are no movie theatre around, i bet that's great entertainment
20:37 <@Shadow404> heh, if your poor and stupid maybe
20:37 <@Shadow404> uneducatted
20:37 <@Shadow404> is more like it
20:37 <@Mirage> explain this to me..what's the difference between two dogs fighting, or two chickens fighting versus two men fighting?
20:37 <@Shadow404> but thats more of a culture issue if im gonna use that arguement
20:38 <@Shadow404> well, thats a good question
20:38 <@Shadow404> two men have the will to fight each other
20:38 <@Shadow404> those human fighters, for example boxers, train willingly to fight
20:38 <@Shadow404> dogs or chickens are forced to be the way they are through *forced* training
20:38 <@Shadow404> not natural will
20:39 <@Mirage> yeah, and dogs in the wild never ever fight each other..they have to be bred for it and trained/forced..right?
20:39 <@Shadow404> Mirage: were talking about *tamed* animals here
20:39 <@Shadow404> not wild dogs caught in the wild
20:39 <@Shadow404> these are dogs that came from tame breeding
20:39 <@Shadow404> that were taught to be fighters
20:40 <@Mirage> how often do you hear about feral pets forming packs and attacking other dogs, cats, children, etc?
20:40 < remoford> dogs
20:40 < remoford> a good bit
20:40 <@Shadow404> yeah, but that is because they did not have human interaction and their wildness told them to form a back
20:40 <@Shadow404> *pack
20:40 < remoford> its just random dog packs get picked up by the animal control
20:41 < remoford> ask the aussies what they think of dingos
20:41 <@Shadow404> they hate them
20:41 <@Shadow404> understandably
20:41 <@Shadow404> and that goes back to my original comment about the wild animals
20:41 <@dc0de> depends, a tamed dingo makes a great pet/companion, similar to a wolf
20:41 <@Shadow404> if a will dingo got hit i would kill it to put it out of its misery
20:41  * dc0de has always wanted to raise a wolf pup
20:42 <@Shadow404> i would have a fucking hard time putting a pet out of its misery if it was the right thing to do
20:42 <@dc0de> if I hit anything, I'd put it out of it's misery, and if it was good meat, I'd take it home.
20:42 < remoford> im not sure a grey wolf is very tamable
20:42 < remoford> i was under the impression that domestication is largly guided evolution
20:42 <@dc0de> remoford: not sure which wolf it was, but a guy I went to HS with had one he raised from a pup.
20:42 <@dc0de> it was very "friendly" but very protective as well.
20:43 <@Shadow404> remoford: we are still wild by defenition, all animals are, its how we are nutured from birth that makes us tame and civilized
20:43 <@Shadow404> just like feral animals
20:43 <@Shadow404> if they are taught to be tame they go back to being wild and their survival traits take over
20:44 <@dc0de> which is why "reforming" prisoners is a waste of time, and tax $$$
20:44 <@Shadow404> *aren't
20:44 < remoford> but not animals can be tamed
20:44 <@dc0de> once a crook, always a crook
20:44  * dc0de thinks of rock1t
20:44 < remoford> i dont know thats fair
20:44 <@Shadow404> dc0de: this is a good point, but ALL prisoners?
20:44 < remoford> but once a pedophile always a pedo is
20:44 <@dc0de> Shadow404: yes.
20:45 <@Shadow404> dc0de: im saying you made a good point, but some prisoners may of mad a bad choice?
20:45 <@Shadow404> have you ever made a bad choice which could of landed you in jail?
20:45 <@dc0de> duh, how did that happen?
20:45 < remoford> alcholol is a good answer to that
20:45 <@Shadow404> im just saying...some people do deserve a second chance to better/prove they can be good
20:45 <@dasunt> Ha ha.
20:46 <@dc0de> alcohol isn't an excuse for breaking the law.
20:46 <@Shadow404> agreed
20:46 <@dasunt> I just sat down, took a sip of my gin & tonic, and reconnected to screen.
20:46 <@dasunt> First line I saw:  (18:48) <remoford> alcholol is a good answer to that
20:46 <@dc0de> Shadow404: so you're in favor of giving someone a 2nd chance because they're stupid?
20:47 <@Shadow404> dc0de: we all make stupid choices at times. Im not saying either all stupid choices deserve forgiveness or a second chance, im just saying some do.
20:48 <@Shadow404> its a big grey area, i understand
20:48 <@dc0de> then how should that be metered? by IQ? if they're 88 and lower, we give them a 2nd chance, and 89 and higher ??
20:48 <@Shadow404> i dunno the answer to that
20:48 <@Shadow404> im just sticking to my initial arguement
20:49 < remoford> also, what about civil disobedience
20:49 <@dasunt> Oddly, in an utterly platonic way, I have a woman sending candy and a CD to me from halfway around the world.
20:49 < remoford> which i would argue damn near everyone in this channel has engaged in
20:49 <@dasunt> dc0de: I do think that some people learn from a mistake, and some don't.
20:49 < remoford> if only thru file sharing
20:49 <@Shadow404> dasunt: damn good point my friend
20:50  * dasunt once killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
20:50 <@Shadow404> but dc0de also makes a good point, how do u decide who gets a second chance and who doesnt
20:50 <@Mirage> Reno 911?
20:50  * dc0de killed a 6 pack, just to watch it die.
20:50 <@Shadow404> how do u know who has learned or who hasnt from that mistake
20:50 <@dasunt> Shadow404: The nature of the crime, and if it is a second chance, or the twentieth chance.
20:50 <@Shadow404> ok, can you put that into writing
20:51 <@Shadow404> definite legal wording
20:51 <@dasunt> Shadow404: Sure.  Give those who won't reoffend a second chance, and keep everyone else in jail.  ;)
20:51 <@dasunt> Easy, huh?
20:51 <@dc0de> three strike rule...
20:51 <@dasunt> I kinda-unlike the three strike rule.
20:51 <@dasunt> It needs to be worded carefully, IMO.
20:51 < remoford> dasunt: agreed
20:51 <@dc0de> it keeps people on the straight and narrow.
20:51 <@Shadow404> thats my point
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20:52 < remoford> frankly, do we want everyone on the straight and narrow?
20:52 <@dc0de> yup.
20:52 <@dasunt> dc0de: IMO, people who commit crimes don't think about getting caught.
20:52 < remoford> given the preexisting laws
20:52 <@dasunt> The value of locking up repeat offenders is not punishment, but prevention, IMO.
20:52 <@ShadowHntr> ladymerlin: *ping*
20:52 <@dc0de> and those of us who are smart enough to understand the loopholes will still glide right by.
20:52 <@ShadowHntr> SkyDog_: *ping*
20:53 <@dc0de> ShadowHntr: ping*
20:53 < remoford> dc0de: so you dont care for actual morality, just legalism
20:53 <@ShadowHntr> howdy dc0de
20:53 <@SkyDog_> ShadowHntr: Pong.
20:53 <@dc0de> sup ShadowHntr, just playin
20:53 <@ShadowHntr> cool
20:53 <@ShadowHntr> just spent 1700 dollars on newegg
20:53 <@ShadowHntr> my GOD
20:53 <@dc0de> remoford: I care quite a bit about morality, but the laws don't keep people moral.
20:54 <@Shadow404> and on that note, im gonna grab some more beer and chicken and wait for Scotchick to get home
20:54 <@SkyDog_> what cha need ShadowHntr?
20:54 < remoford> dc0de: does your morality include lawfullness? the loophole comment suggests not
20:54 <@ShadowHntr> SkyDog_: wanted to talk to merlin
20:54 <@ShadowHntr> if she's not busy
20:54 <@dasunt> Heh heh.
20:54 <@SkyDog_> Wait one. I'll get her online.
20:54 <@ShadowHntr> thanks
20:54 <@dc0de> remoford: lawfulness and morality don't go hand in hand.
20:54 <@SkyDog_> Well, she's "tied up" at the moment.
20:54 <@dasunt> Today the topic of cannibalism came up at work, and how tasty humans are.
20:54 <@SkyDog_> I will undo one arm.
20:54 <@ShadowHntr> HAHAHAHAHA
20:54 <@ShadowHntr> :)
20:55 <@ShadowHntr> didn't mean to interrupt your session... ;)
20:55 <@dasunt> My coworker:  "I don't eat people because society disapproves."  Me:  "Er, shouldn't you have a better reason?"
20:55 < remoford> dc0de: ahh
20:55 <@ladymerlin> sup ShadowHntr
20:55 <@SkyDog_> It's not really a session, more of a lifestyle choice.
20:55 <@dc0de> SkyDog_: heh... take more pictures.
20:55 <@dc0de> leave her tied.
20:55 <@SkyDog_> dc0de: Heh, not on your life.
20:55 < remoford> so if the law prohibits something that is allowed in your morality, would you obey the law or not. is this a result of consequences only?
20:56 <@dc0de> remoford: do you break the speed limit?
20:56 < remoford> yes
20:56 <@dc0de> so do i.
20:56 < remoford> and i get tickets occasionally
20:56 < remoford> i dont think that they should revoke my liscence thus tho
20:56 <@dc0de> and I pay my tickets, I don't argue them.
20:57 <@dc0de> if I speed enough, and get enough tickets for them to remove my license, I deserved it.
20:57 <@dc0de> the system is fair.
20:57 < remoford> (actually, i looked at my record the other day, no tickets in 3 years yay!)
20:57 <@dc0de> in GA, you have to get 12 points in 24 months.
20:57 <@dc0de> I have 4 points that will go away next year.
20:57 <@dc0de> and I still speed.
20:57 <@dc0de> so that should answer your question
20:58 <@dasunt> If they executed people for the sfirst time speeding offense, there wouldn't be this problem.  :p
20:58 <@dc0de> dasunt: agreed.
20:58 < remoford> well there you go, not all things require absolution in punishment
20:58 <@dc0de> and we wouldn't have an unemployment issue, or homeless
20:58 <@dasunt> AND EVERYONE GETS A PONY!
20:59 < remoford> yay!
20:59 <@dc0de> remoford: no, if I got a DUI (not that I would drive after drinking), and lost my license, I wouldn't drive without one.
20:59 < remoford> really
20:59 <@dc0de> yes, really,
20:59 <@dasunt> Heh, family member of mine was sitting in jail last weekend because of a DUI.  Dumb shit.
20:59 < remoford> and you would get to work how?
20:59 <@dasunt> I was almost tempted to see him and ask him what the hell he was thinking.
20:59 <@dc0de> the offense of driving without a license would be far worse than the DUI.
20:59 < remoford> this being america and public transportation being offically useless
21:00 <@dc0de> I would have to have my wife drive me until I could get my license back.
21:00 <@dc0de> as most people have to do when they lose their license.
21:00 <@dasunt> remoford: IMO, the hazard of an alcohol impaired driver to other people outweighs the drawback of forcing that driver to find alternative transportation.
21:00 < remoford> i agree
21:01 <@dc0de> dasunt: I think that 2nd offense DUI should have to walk to work on the freeway.
21:01 < remoford> what i am suggesting is that sometimes people break the law out of if not nessecity, expedience
21:01 <@dc0de> yeah, it's easier to kill my wife than to wait for her to die.
21:01 < remoford> and this is at times understandable
21:01 <@ShadowHntr> i saw some ppl on the medians earlier today
21:01 <@dasunt> dc0de: <tangent>I think that public humiliation would be effective for some crimes.</humiliation>
21:01 < Synx_hm> ie... DWI (being on pot)
21:01 <@dasunt> Er, </tangent>
21:01 <@dc0de> dasunt: I agree
21:01  * dasunt is typing under the influence.
21:02 <@ShadowHntr> wearing yellow vests saying "I AM A DRUNK DRIVER"
21:02  * dasunt goes astray, and accidentally floods four innocent IRCers.
21:02 <@ShadowHntr> or something to that effect.
21:02 <@dc0de> ahh, the scarlet letter punishment.
21:02 <@dasunt> ShadowHntr: They do have the special DUI/DWI plates in Minnesota.
21:02  * dasunt calls them the "public humiliation" plates.
21:02 <@dc0de> ShadowHntr: a fucking tattoo on their forehead
21:02 <@ShadowHntr> lol
21:02 <@ShadowHntr> they should have those
21:02 <@ShadowHntr> in other states
21:02 < Synx_hm> its a hard thing really, but even f'ing cell phones impare people to a great deal me thinks
21:02 <@dc0de> "I'm a potential killer"
21:02 < Synx_hm> even bluetooth
21:03 < Synx_hm> now there are some that can deal with it, and ther are some that can not even f'ing listen to music a drive
21:03 < remoford> for some period of time, special plates sound good
21:03 <@dc0de> Synx_hm: in Norway, if you drink and drive, you can lose your license.
21:03 < remoford> it would be unfair to hodl that over someones head indefinitly tho
21:03 <@dasunt> ShadowHntr: "POOR IMPULSE CONTROL" ;)
21:03 <@dc0de> and by "drink and drive", that means a cup of coffee, a bottle of water, or a sip from a coke.
21:03 < Synx_hm> dc0de, im for that, not to say im perect, but i do not want people on the road that could harm someone i love
21:04 <@dc0de> it's also illegal to eat while driving in Norway.
21:04 < Synx_hm> dc0de, i will not drink more than 1 beer and get in a car after any length of period
21:04 < Synx_hm> dc0de, but that may have more to do with the fact ill lose my job more than i care about other people
21:04 <@dc0de> basically, it's illegal to do anything OTHER than drive in Norway, while you are in control of the vehicle.
21:04 < Synx_hm> dc0de, maybe thats the answer, loose you job if you get a DUI
21:04 < Synx_hm> wrr DWU
21:04 < Synx_hm> err DWI
21:04 < remoford> nice
21:05 <@dasunt> dc0de: Youve been to Norway?
21:05 <@dc0de> My brother, who's now 44, almost died when I was 19, because he was DUI.
21:05 < Synx_hm> ya ive been drinking tonight
21:05 < remoford> rather common actually, esp if liscence is lost
21:05 <@dc0de> and t-boned a truck.
21:05 <@dc0de> that was the 1st time I gave blood
21:05 < Synx_hm> :(
21:05 <@dc0de> he learned.
21:06 <@dc0de> 9 weeks in the hospital and 2 surgeries.
21:06 < Synx_hm> sucks we all make mistakes, some get hurt the first time though, and the rest of us get lucky
21:06 <@dasunt> My relative and his estranged (divorce?) wife have both gotten DUIs in the last year.
21:06 <@dc0de> dasunt: ouch
21:06 <@dasunt> They don't deal with breakup well.
21:06 < Synx_hm> people who get DUI's more than once need not ever drive
21:06 < remoford> dc0de: i thought your position was ppl dont learn and once caught no more chances
21:06 <@dc0de> remoford: no, not really.
21:07 < Synx_hm> and really you can get a cab or a friend from almost anywhere to drive you home
21:07 < remoford> ok, i misunderstood your position then
21:07 < Synx_hm> im a drunk and ill be the first to tell you that, but there are some things i will not f around with, and thats DUI for one
21:07 <@dc0de> I am not against 2nd chances, I just think that there needs to be logical limits on them.  Mostly they are judgement calls, and that's why we have "judges".
21:08 < Synx_hm> yar
21:08 <@dc0de> yar!
21:08 < Synx_hm> but you gotta admit, you have friend that drive drunk better than most people sober lol
21:08 <@dasunt> Synx_hm: You are a drunk?
21:08 <@dasunt> Wait, why wasn't I told about this.
21:08 <@dc0de> Synx_hm: who is this?
21:09 < Synx_hm> im just saying
21:09 < Synx_hm> hehe
21:09 < Synx_hm> and no i am not a drunk, but i do partake a bit
21:09 <@dc0de> I won't get in a car with someone that's had one beer, never mind more than that.
21:09 <@dasunt> Synx_hm: Worse than me?
21:09  * dasunt doesn't mind one beer.
21:09 < Synx_hm> dc0de, i agree, i wont get in a car, and i sure as hell wont get in the driver seat
21:09 <@dasunt> IIRC, everything up to .03 BAC doesn't impair reflexes.
21:10 <@dc0de> dasunt: do you know how your body metabolizes one beer?
21:10 < Synx_hm> dasunt, you drunk much eh?
21:10 <@dc0de> everyone's is different.
21:10 <@dasunt> dc0de: True, but OTOH, how well do I know my body metabolizes most prescription drugs?
21:10 <@dc0de> dasunt: will they show up on a breathalyzer?
21:11 <@dc0de> the ethanol that your body metabolizes will.
21:11 < Synx_hm> i saw an advertisement in cali for a key thingy that wont let you start the car without a breathaliyzer
21:11 <@dasunt> dc0de: True, but from what I can tell, breathalyzers should always be refused.
21:11 <@dasunt> ;)
21:11 <@dasunt> Srsly.
21:11 <@ShadowHntr> if you do that
21:11 <@dasunt> Ask for a blood test instead.
21:12 <@ShadowHntr> there's a thing called the Implied Consent law
21:12 < Synx_hm> ya but you then get taken in
21:12 <@dc0de> dasunt: refuse one here, and you get arrested, and taken for a blood test, in handcuffs
21:12 <@ShadowHntr> yeap
21:12 < Synx_hm> actually i knew someone in TX that got a DUI without blood or breath, because he refused a breath
21:12 <@dc0de> feel free to refuse in GA.
21:12 <@dc0de> it's your long assed night in the pokey.
21:13 <@dasunt> dc0de: *nods*  I know, it won't make the cops like you, but from what little I know about breathalyzers, they don't seem to be that reliable.
21:13 <@dasunt> It would be one thing if breathalyzers were used as a quick screening mechanism, with those who failed being asked to take blood tests.
21:13 <@dc0de> dasunt: if you haven't been drinking, it's not a big deal to blow the tube.
21:13 <@dasunt> But as a sole determination of drunkeness, I would worry.
21:13 <@dasunt> dc0de: Heh, did you see the /. story on the breathalyzer code a few weeks ago?
21:13 <@dc0de> yup
21:14 <@dasunt> I liked the part that if it returned a value that was obviously wrong, it would give a safe value, and no warning that it was failing.
21:14 <@dc0de> that'll be interesting
21:14 <@dasunt> The cheaper units, btw, tend to use a technology that is more likely to fail.
21:15 <@dasunt> Sensor unit, IIRC.
21:15 <@Pr0nStrGeek> define "obviously wrong"
21:15 < remoford> twice the lethal limit
21:15 <@Pr0nStrGeek> so you're talking .8?
21:16 < remoford> sure ( i dont actually know the numbers here)
21:16 <@dasunt> Isn't .35-.40 the LD50 for humans?
21:16 <@Pr0nStrGeek> .4 is typically fatal...
21:16 <@dasunt> If you don't have a tolerance, that is.
21:16 <@dasunt> I think that habitual drunks is higher.
21:16 < remoford> is it really double tho?
21:16 < remoford> or just marginally
21:17 <@dasunt> Hmmm.
21:17 <@dasunt> Okay, wikied for the information.
21:17 <@dasunt> Found out that South Dakota doesn't allow breathalyzers in court.
21:17 <@Pr0nStrGeek> that's worthwhile information...
21:18 <@Pr0nStrGeek> i used to have a roommate from SD...
21:18 <@dasunt> Interesting.
21:18 <@Pr0nStrGeek> after seeing her driving habits... i am somehow not surprised that they don't allow breathalyzers in court...
21:18 <@Pr0nStrGeek> i woke up one morning to see her bronco in the front yard...
21:19 <@dasunt> Victoria, Australia has a 20% tolerance in their breathylers, to deal with the measurable margin of error for breathylzers.
21:19 <@Corydon76-dig> Has nothing to do with drivers, has everything to do with the reliability of the device
21:19 <@Corydon76-dig> Most states don't allow psychics in court, either
21:19 <@Pr0nStrGeek> breathalyzers are less reliable in south dakota?
21:19 <@dasunt> dc0de: Hmmm, looks like if you are diabetic, it might be a good idea to refuse breathylzers.
21:20 <@Corydon76-dig> breathalyzers aren't all that reliable
21:20 <@dc0de> dasunt: I don't drink anymore. it's not a problem
21:20 <@dasunt> dc0de: Seems that the older machines don't differentiate that well between acetone and ethanol.
21:20 <@Corydon76-dig> There are all sorts of things that can inflate the results of a breathalyzer
21:20 <@dc0de> dasunt: I'm not worried about it.. if I fail the breathalyzer, it's still my right to request a blood test.
21:20 <@Corydon76-dig> You can't get a lower result, but the result can be much higher
21:20 <@Pr0nStrGeek> well... by extension, there should be all sorts of things that can deflate the results of a breathalyzer...
21:21 <@dasunt> Also, dieters can also have higher acetone levels.
21:21 <@dc0de> and also, anyone on a no-carb diet, by definition, is diabetic.
21:21 <@Corydon76-dig> Yes, but by the very fact that it could be higher, you can argue the accuracy in court
21:22 < remoford> obviously we need roadside blood tests administered by moustashioued highway patrolman
21:22 <@dasunt> remoford: Have you seen the essay about the drunk driving exemption to the US constitution?
21:22 <@Pr0nStrGeek> remoford: depends on how he wants to use that moustache to obtain the blood...
21:22 <@dc0de> remoford: yeah... I can see it now, cops with needles
21:23 < remoford> dasunt: no, link?
21:24 < Synx_hm> great song, great album, great singer (ala Metric), great video
21:24 < Synx_hm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnN0UwSEeeA
21:25 <@dasunt> remoford: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/DrivingIssues/1103163004.html
21:25 <@dasunt> I *think* that's it./
21:25 <@dasunt> Synx_hm: Are you the person who recommended Corvus Corax to me?
21:25 < Synx_hm> dont think so
21:25 <@dasunt> Oh.
21:26 < Synx_hm> shit i may have been drunk i duno
21:26 < Synx_hm> hehe
21:26 <@dasunt> Synx_hm: You like them?  Because yes, they are rad.
21:26 < remoford> dasunt: yknow, i gave up on the constitution a good while ago. its just a losing battle
21:26 < Synx_hm> dasunt, you check out that Emily haines music vid?
21:27 < remoford> there is only one good answer
21:27 < remoford> FREE MARS!
21:27 -!- Strom_M [n=strom@208.127.172.112] has joined #se2600
21:27 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Strom_M] by ChanServ
21:27 <@dasunt> remoford: Well, obviously, the constitution is a good idea, but when it comes to terrorists, pedophiles, and drug dealers, well, they are VERY BAD PEOPLE and don't deserve the protection of the constitution.
21:27 < Synx_hm> dasunt, holy ish, a WOW band hehe
21:28 <@dasunt> WOW?
21:28 < Synx_hm> WoW
21:28 <@dasunt> Oh, okay.
21:28 < Synx_hm> ;)
21:28 < Synx_hm> cool none the less
21:28 <@dasunt> In other news, my cow orker had his GF cut his hair.
21:28 <@dasunt> She fucked up.
21:28 <@dasunt> Badly.
21:28 < Synx_hm> hah
21:28 <@dasunt> Seriously, I'd just shave the rest of my head if I was him.
21:29 <@dasunt> He has a strip of missing hair on the right side of his head.
21:29 <@brimstone> i need to number my rules, but that's one of them: I cut my hair for no woman
21:29 <@brimstone> or man
21:29 <@Corydon76-dig> awww
21:29 <@dasunt> I'd let met hair grow long, but I don't like how my beard comes in, and I don't want long hair while being cleanshaven.
21:30 < remoford> dasunt: defined by ..
21:30 < Synx_hm> dasunt, you check out that music vid?
21:30 < remoford> yknow i did the caveman thing for awhile, its sort of a pain in the ass
21:30 <@dasunt> Synx_hm: Not yet, but I'm planning to.
21:30 < remoford> specifically shutting the door of the car on your hair
21:30 < Synx_hm> doo et!
21:30 <@dasunt> remoford: Right now, I'm doing the #4 (about 1/2") blade, all over.
21:31 < remoford> never notice it until that first blindspot check
21:31 < Synx_hm> dasunt, picture?
21:31 <@dasunt> Synx_hm: Let me dig one up.
21:31 <@dasunt> It is amazing how highly short-cut hair is thought of.  And how much long hair is associated with slackers.
21:31 <@dasunt> With short hair, all I have to do is quickly shampoo it in the morning.  I don't even have to comb it.
21:32 < Synx_hm> dasunt, i get #2 on the sides i know its great, i used to have hair to my shoulders
21:32  * dc0de used to have a 10" ponytail.
21:32 < Synx_hm> dasunt, had shorter in basic it was f'ing great
21:32 <@dasunt> I may try a beard again.
21:33 <@dasunt> Synx_hm: On the right:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/tsunad/1254604106/
21:33 < Synx_hm> dasunt, yar short hair rules!
21:34 < Synx_hm> SF eh, you like it there?
21:34 <@dasunt> Really, if you have hair down to your ass, guy or girl, I appreciate how much work that is.
21:34 < Synx_hm> i love that city
21:34 <@dasunt> Synx_hm: I loved the city, but rent/house prices are EEEEK!
21:34 <@sdodson> Is that the ex-wife or the sister?
21:34 <@dasunt> That girl, btw, is from Norway.
21:34 <@dasunt> If that was the ex, I'd probably be married still.  ;)
21:34 < Synx_hm> dasunt, , that girl btw is HOT
21:35 <@dasunt> Or at least, not bitterly divorced.
21:35 <@sdodson> ok, i was gonna say i'd hit it
21:35 <@sdodson> didn't want to offend though
21:36 <@dasunt> I don't know if I have ex pictures on the web.
21:36 < Synx_hm> my facebook prob has the most recient photo of my short hair, dasunt
21:37 <@dasunt> I know where there are pictures of ex on the web, but that's with her new BF, and we really don't want to go there.
21:37 <@dasunt> Synx_hm: Link.
21:37 < Synx_hm> btw i hate facebook/myspace, but facebook has allowed me over the past 2 weeks to contact very very old friends
21:37 < Synx_hm> dasunt, http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=750428052
21:37 <@dasunt> Facebook is the black magic you use to save a dying person.
21:37 <@dasunt> It requires part of a soul, but there is powerful magic.
21:37 < Synx_hm> haha
21:37 <@dasunt> Synx_hm: I must log in.  :(
21:37 < Synx_hm> but seriously im back in contact with friends i haven't talked to in 10+ years
21:38 < Synx_hm> ill dl it and upload it to my other server, standby
21:38  * dasunt waits.
21:38  * dasunt grabs a refill on his drink while waiting.
21:40 < Synx_hm> http://aloneinthevoid.com/me.jpg
21:40 <@dasunt> I like the domain name.
21:41 < Synx_hm> tanks
21:41 <@dasunt> Nice.
21:41 <@dasunt> You ex-AF?
21:41 < Synx_hm> not ex
21:41 <@dasunt> You been to Iraq yet?
21:41 -!- ShadowHntr [i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr] has quit [Connection timed out]
21:42 < Synx_hm> i fly B52's we arn't going to iraq right now
21:42 < Synx_hm> but ill prob be deployed middle next summer
21:42 <@dasunt> :(
21:42 < Synx_hm> we deploy to Guam
21:42 < Synx_hm> w00t
21:42 < Synx_hm> :)
21:43 < Synx_hm> its a kickass gig
21:43 < Synx_hm> i mean the hours can suck balls at time, but really its worth it, and i love what i do so that helps
21:44 -!- freakn [n=na@dsl027-164-234.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #se2600
21:48 <@dasunt> Guam.
21:48 <@dasunt> Isn't that the place where $10 will get you drunk, laid, and dinner?
21:49 < Synx_hm> probably
21:49 < Synx_hm> the japanse all go there because its a cheap hawaii
21:53 <@dasunt> I wouldn't mind seein git.
21:53 <@dasunt> But I wouldn't mind seeing a lot of the world.
21:53 < Synx_hm> ya
21:53 < Synx_hm> well im out, gotta get up eairly for work
21:53 < Synx_hm> g'night
21:54 -!- slam [n=slam@DCC.SEND.startkeylogger.000.telephreak.org] has quit ["Changing server"]
21:55  * dasunt ponders if his ex will be at PN11.
21:55 <@sdodson> what about the herpes pill to help you out afterwards?
21:55 -!- Synx_hm is now known as Synx_zzz
21:55 <@dasunt> Meh.
21:55 <@dasunt> Still haven't gotten tested.
21:55 -!- ShadowHntr [n=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr] has joined #se2600
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21:58 <@ShadowHntr> damn
21:58 <@ShadowHntr> just as i get a replacement desktop on order
21:58 <@dasunt> Somone love me 4evah?
21:58 <@ShadowHntr> my main one goes crazy
21:59 <@ShadowHntr> but man
21:59 <@ShadowHntr> i finally get to put what i really want into a desktop
21:59 <@ShadowHntr> it will ROCK.
21:59 <@ShadowHntr> AMD Opteron 1210
21:59 <@ShadowHntr> 4GB RAM
21:59 <@Corydon76-dig> dasunt: me luv u long time
21:59 <@sdodson> why and opteron?
21:59 <@ShadowHntr> NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400 graphics
22:00 <@ShadowHntr> sdodson, this is aiming to be a technical workstation.
22:00 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: I no believe you.
22:00 <@ShadowHntr> with light to moderate gaming and heavy use of engineering software
22:00 <@ShadowHntr> such as Solidworks
22:00 <@Corydon76-dig> dasunt: how about for 5 minutes?
22:00 <@dasunt> Even I last longer than that.
22:00 <@ShadowHntr> um... i won't ask.
22:00 <@Mirage> 10 with boy butter..=P
22:01 <@Corydon76-dig> Mirage: I can make it last pretty long with boy butter
22:01 <@sdodson> why does mirage know that?
22:01 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: you think it can only be used by gay guys?
22:01 <@Mirage> unfortunately i lurk on the channel too much
22:02 <@Corydon76-dig> dasunt: advantage of boy butter is that it doesn't dry out, so the surfaces stay slick...
22:02 <@dasunt> I still last longer.
22:02 <@Corydon76-dig> dasunt: 30 minutes?
22:03 <@dasunt> I plead the fifth.
22:03 <@Corydon76-dig> Hot damn
22:03 <@dasunt> Although, sometimes....  <_<
22:03 <@dasunt> But no, not trying to impress Corydon76-dig.
22:04 <@sdodson> haha
22:04 <@dasunt> Sexy nubile romantic female, OTOH...
22:04 <@sdodson> you just got caught trying to impress corydon
22:04 <@dasunt> Cute enough to make me forget about the whole women-lead-to-pain thing....
22:05 <@Corydon76-dig> Pleasure leads to pain?
22:05  * strages yawns
22:05 <@Corydon76-dig> Wouldn't you rather pain lead to pleasure?
22:05 <@dasunt> Relationships are a bit of both.
22:05 <@Corydon76-dig> I'm not proposing a relationship
22:05 <@sdodson> i thought you said receptionists
22:06 <@sdodson> i was thinking about the women at the doctors office that sit at an angle it's nearly impossible not to look down their shirts
22:06 < freakn> Cory -> pain into pleasure is a great thing
22:06 <@dasunt> There is no pain like that of desire
22:06 <@dasunt> Is there no difference between women and fire?
22:06 <@dasunt> One burns the spirit
22:06 <@dasunt> The other the flesh
22:06 <@dasunt> Is sex worth the price of certain death?
22:06 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: you're reading and hallucinating?
22:07 <@dasunt> ^- Type O has it down.
22:07 <@Corydon76-dig> freakn: you're welcome to partake
22:08 <@dasunt> Oh, in other news, my ex's shit is packed away and ready to be delivered to her.
22:08 <@Corydon76-dig> ...chopped up, in tiny little boxes?
22:09 <@sdodson> dasunt: thanks for the update
22:10 <@Corydon76-dig> Well, cable modem signal was good for a week... now it's sucking again
22:10 <@dasunt> Well, packed away, or ready to be burned.
22:10 <@Mirage> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDANNQLcAfE
22:10 <@dasunt> sdodson: I r keepin u in loop!
22:10 <@Corydon76-dig> dasunt: wear a gas mask, you know her poison leeched into it...
22:10 <@sdodson> dasunt: are you drunk?
22:10 <@dasunt> sdodson: Very much.
22:11 <@Corydon76-dig> sdodson: would he be flirting with me if he wasn't?
22:12 <@sdodson> he's drunk not desperate
22:12 <@Shadow404> sounds like a few people on channel
22:12 <@Mirage> Corydon76-dig: it rained
22:12 <@Corydon76-dig> Right, if he was desperate, he'd be flirting with you
22:12 <@Shadow404> im drunk, but im being summoned to bed
22:12 <@sdodson> Corydon76-dig: well playe my friend, well played
22:12 <@Shadow404> later
22:13 <@Corydon76-dig> Mirage: yeah, that's probably it
22:13 <@Corydon76-dig> It had been pretty good all summer long... for the dryest summer on record...
22:14 <@Mirage> until i MADE the guy they sent out the 3rd or 4th time replace every splitter and end on the drop coming from the tap to my apt I had problems when it rained
22:14 <@Corydon76-dig> Mirage: I suspect somebody didn't close a box correctly and water is leeching in... that's what it was last spring
22:15 <@Corydon76-dig> somewhere between here and the node
22:15 <@Corydon76-dig> I suppose I could go doctor up all the splitters with Vaseline...
22:16 <@Corydon76-dig> I'm sure the cable tech would love that the next time one comes out here
22:17 <@Mirage> i thought they were supposed to goop and boot the ones ourdoors anyway
22:18 <@Corydon76-dig> They never do.  I have one of those crappy black pseudo boxes outside
22:24 <@dasunt> Oh, my day at work improved.
22:24 <@dasunt> Yesterday, we had an HP laptop we reloaded.
22:25 <@dasunt> Anyways, customer gets it, boots up into windows, reboots, and surprise, the hp bios-password locks itself.
22:25 <@Mirage> set the screensaver to goatse?
22:25 <@dasunt> It is one of those annoying bios passwords that can't be reset just by removing the cmos battery.
22:25 <@dasunt> So, he's pissed with us, and the only thing I can do is give him the number of HP's tech support.
22:26 <@dasunt> So, today he comes in.  2.5 hours on the phone with HP, and he gets the password to unlock the machine.
22:26 <+coil> hi
22:27 <@dasunt> coil: I r drunk.  Your alcohol-intake status please?
22:27 <+coil> negative
22:27 <@ShadowHntr> does not compute.
22:28 <+coil> my roommates aren't home either
22:28 <+coil> i dunno wheres everyone
22:28  * dc0de is off to bed
22:28 <+coil> so no one can buy^H^H^H i can't drink with anyone
22:30 <@Corydon76-dig> coil: well, it's only, what, 4 months until you can buy your own?
22:30 <+coil> 6 :P
22:31 <@dasunt> coil: I can drink.
22:31 <+coil> then i can goto bars and pay for overpriced drinks
22:31 <@dasunt> Started without you, actually.
22:31 <+coil> when i could just drink at home
22:31 <@ShadowHntr> lol
22:31 <+coil> dasunt, drink another one for me
22:31  * ShadowHntr sings  along...
22:31 <@ShadowHntr> I drink alone
22:31 <@ShadowHntr> with nobody else
22:32 <@ShadowHntr> ...
22:32 <+coil> i wanna drink tonight, but my headache is killing me
22:32 <@ShadowHntr> :)
22:32 <@dasunt> coil: I don't work tomorrow.
22:32 <@Corydon76-dig> Close enough
22:33 <+coil> i have to close tomorrow :/
22:37 <@dasunt> Ha ha.
22:37 <@dasunt> On a forum I'm at, someone made a passing remark about my coding skills.
22:37 <+coil> but i dont go in till 6pm
22:37 <@Corydon76-dig> You have coding skills?
22:37 <@dasunt> So I pasted a 140-ish line file of perl code I was working on for automating a task at work.
22:37 <@dasunt> The reply:  "Get a woman now"
22:38 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: Not really, but my code works, which is, sadly enough, more skills than many people have.
22:38 <@dasunt> Perfect word:  dasunt's coding skills < average programmer.
22:38 <@Corydon76-dig> How are your debugging skills?
22:38 <@dasunt> Real world:  dasunt's coding skills > average programmer.
22:39 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: Well, I think my debugging skills are at the fucking-obvious level, but after I've seen most people's debugging skills...
22:39  * dasunt has no clue why simplifying the problem and creating test cases to verify an assumption seems to be as hard as rocket science to most people.
22:39 -!- desertc [n=mmm@c-68-52-20-230.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
22:39 <@Corydon76-dig> One of the other programmers came up with a debugging commands to diagnose deadlocks, which I recently used to find a really difficult deadlock...
22:40 <@Corydon76-dig> which was fun
22:40 <@dasunt> Ha ha.
22:41 <@Corydon76-dig> Made it completely obvious, even though the two locking sequences were in completely different files
22:41 <@dasunt> The person who posted the "find a woman" comment also gave me this link:  http://www.loveme.com/women/info81174.htm
22:41  * dasunt laughs his ass off.
22:41 <@dasunt> I've suck so low that random strangers seem to be offering mail order brides.
22:42 <@Corydon76-dig> Heh
22:42 <@Corydon76-dig> s/suck/sunk/
22:42 <@brimstone> dasunt, http://marryourdaughter.com
22:42 <@dasunt> I have a funny storry about that.
22:42 -!- slam [n=slam@DCC.SEND.startkeylogger.000.telephreak.org] has joined #se2600
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22:42 <@Corydon76-dig> Evening, slam
22:43 <@slam> hi
22:43 <@dasunt> Back in my MUDding days, a friend and I knew a guy who did ebay for mad money, basically buying collectables, having their quality professionally certified, and reselling them.
22:43 <@slam> what have I missed?
22:43 <@dasunt> So, one day, this guy was mentionin how this was a pretty good deal for him, and my friend said that no matter how much he was pulling in, he couldn't buy love.
22:43 <@dasunt> Weirdly, the next week, this guy started looking into mail order brides.
22:43 <@dasunt> >_>
22:44 <@slam> why marry them
22:44 <@Mirage> slam: boybutter, and a longevity debate between dasunt and corydon about who could last longest
22:44 <@slam> just spend $20.00 on the corner
22:44 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: for a crack whore?
22:44 <@slam> why not
22:44 <@Mirage> slam: and another $15 co-pay at the doctor..=)
22:45 <@Corydon76-dig> I can get 18yo virgin men for free...
22:45 <@slam> still cheeper than a date with dinner and movie
22:45 <@slam> Corydon76-dig: why not?
22:46 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: because free is better?
22:46 <@slam> its not really free
22:46 <@Corydon76-dig> I've never had to pay for the guys I've fucked
22:47 <@slam> it always cost one way or another
22:48 <@dasunt> Oh, drunk.
22:48 <@Corydon76-dig> Most insist on paying their own way
22:48 <@Corydon76-dig> Even the ones who want to be called "dirty little cock whore"
22:48 <@slam> Corydon76-dig: just wondering, what is it you like about boy so well
22:50 <@sdodson> I think this is the point where he points out that he's bi despite never ever talking about girls.
22:50 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: It's tight
22:50 <@sdodson> I'm not sure, but I feel it coming.
22:50 <@sdodson> erm maybe the wrong words there
22:50 <@slam> usually crack whore have a tight ass too
22:51 <@slam> and they suck
22:51 <@sdodson> why is that?
22:51 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: "Even the ones who want to be called 'dirty little cock whore'" <- So you've met my ex?  ;)
22:51 <@slam> maybe
22:51 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: I also enjoy sucking cock
22:51 <@slam> I like eating pussy
22:51 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: never done that
22:52 <@slam> its finger licking good
22:52 <@dasunt> Pussy is grand.
22:52 <@slam> yes indead
22:52 <@Corydon76-dig> Well, it's probably no worse than giving a rim job
22:52 <@slam> oh shit
22:53 <@dasunt> Worse?
22:53 <+MxZBot> worse are those hacker keyboards
22:53 <@dasunt> There's nothing wrong with eating pussy.
22:53 -!- timoguin [n=timd@66-168-154-194.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #se2600
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22:53 <@slam> what happens if they fart and shit
22:53 <@Corydon76-dig> Nothing wrong with rimming a guy either, as long as it's clean
22:53 <@dasunt> slam: I suggest only eating the pussy of ladies.
22:54 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: never had that happen
22:54 <@slam> damn, I need to be drunk for this conversation
22:54 <@Mirage> no shit
22:54 <@slam> you going to phreaknic
22:54 <@Corydon76-dig> Mirage: yeah, that's the generally the idea
22:55 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: to whom are you referring?
22:55 <@slam> you
22:55 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: you know I'm the Treasurer of Nashville 2600, right?
22:56 <@slam> no
22:56 <@dasunt> slam: I can help!
22:56 <@Corydon76-dig> Well, I'll be at the registration desk most of the time
22:56 <@dasunt> I'm good at getting drunk.
22:56 <@slam> well have to take this up there
22:56 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: I'm pretty sure I saw you at PN 10, but damned if I remember.
22:56 <@slam> you buy the beer
22:57 <@slam> you can charge to to Nashville 2600
22:57 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: nah, you already said you have a loose ass... I prefer tight, remember?
22:57 <@slam> since you got their money
22:57 <@slam> yep my ass is no good
22:58 <@Corydon76-dig> I have plenty of money, myself
22:58 <@Corydon76-dig> well, maybe not plenty
22:58 <@Corydon76-dig> adequate
22:58 <@sdodson> sufficient
22:58 <@slam> good your buying the beer
22:58 <@dasunt> Meh.
22:58 <@Corydon76-dig> I don't generally drink beer
22:58 <@dasunt> I should drink more?  y/n?
22:58 <@slam> ok liquor
22:59 <@Corydon76-dig> I'll probably bring my Scotch, though
22:59 <@slam> dasunt: yes
22:59 <@slam> I like vodka
22:59 <@Corydon76-dig> dasunt: save it for another night
22:59 <@dasunt> I'm out of vodka.
22:59 <@Corydon76-dig> dasunt: like when you're around me...
22:59 <@timoguin> vodka... eww.
22:59 <@dasunt> Okay, pissing, getting some V8
22:59 <@dasunt> I r keeping u in loop!
23:00 <@slam> bring vodka to PN
23:00 <@Corydon76-dig> timoguin: Scotch?
23:00 -!- vapor_ [n=jcluff@adsl-69-226-102-168.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
23:00 <@timoguin> never had scotch, but i like whiskey.
23:00 <@timoguin> so probably.
23:00 <@slam> taste the same
23:00 <@Corydon76-dig> timoguin: it's better than Tennessee whiskey
23:00 <@timoguin> although it's been a while since i've desired any type of hard liquor
23:00 <@Corydon76-dig> much more robust flavor
23:01 <@timoguin> last time i had jack i had waaay too much
23:01 <@Corydon76-dig> timoguin: last time with Ses?
23:01 <@slam> do you drink blended scotch or pure scotch
23:01 <@Mirage> and easier for corydon to get you drunk on quickly
23:01 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: single malt
23:01 <@timoguin> Corydon76-dig: no, that was rum.
23:01 <@timoguin> and i've had lots of liquor since then.
23:02 <@slam> I do bad things when I get drunk
23:02 <@Corydon76-dig> How bad?
23:02 <@timoguin> i doubt i'll get drunk much at pn. i'll have girls relying and me getting an erection
23:02 <@slam> it usually involve child support to ugly women
23:02 <@Corydon76-dig> Do you suck cock when you get drunk?
23:02 <@slam> no
23:02 <@Corydon76-dig> aww
23:03 <@slam> and my ass is to big for tha too
23:03 <@slam> bigger than apussy
23:03 <@slam> you wouldn't like it
23:04 <@Corydon76-dig> As Frank Zappa so aptly put it, "The bigger the cushion, the better the pushin'"
23:04 <@slam> do like it in yours
23:04 <@timoguin> hahaha
23:04 <@Corydon76-dig> Nah, I'm a top
23:04 <@timoguin> Corydon76-dig: I listened to that song while having sex like two days ago...
23:05 <@timoguin> didn't work out so well.  we both started laughing.
23:05 <@Corydon76-dig> timoguin: lol
23:05 <@dasunt> I type far too well when drunk.
23:05 <@slam> I bet that guy in the purple suit is a bottom
23:05 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: besides, there are plenty of guys who like getting cock
23:06 <@slam> in Tennessee
23:06 <@Corydon76-dig> I might have to invite the Mexican I've been fucking
23:06 <@dasunt> At good drunk place now.
23:06 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: you mean Al?
23:07 <@Corydon76-dig> The one time I've heard about Al, he was topping
23:07 <@slam> thats hard to believe you can find that easy in this Bible weilding state
23:07 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: nah, there's guys in every apartment complex
23:08 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: especially in the city... guys flee from the rural areas
23:08 <@slam> how about cross dressing
23:08 <@Mirage> slam: isn't nashville like the adult bookstore capital of the us?
23:08 <@Corydon76-dig> What about it?
23:08 <@slam> do you cross dress
23:08 <@Corydon76-dig> Mirage: No, just world's largest
23:08 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: I have, but not recently... not after I discovered I look horrible in a dress
23:09 <@Mirage> yeah, well..only in the bible belt..
23:09 <@wizardPC> Mirage, thats so the baptists have something to do during the convention
23:09 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: you have to try it a couple times, just to be sure it's not for you
23:09 <@slam> how do you feel about trannys
23:09 <@wizardPC> .....
23:09 <@Mirage> wizardPC: run while you can
23:10 <@slam> but I like women to well
23:10 <@Corydon76-dig> You know that there used to be a gay bar right next to the Southern Baptist Convention headquarters on 8th Ave, right?
23:10 <@slam> haha
23:10 <@slam> I have nothing against gay people and have a goof friend thats gay but its not for me
23:11 <@dasunt> slam: have you tried?
23:11 <@Corydon76-dig> It since was turned into a residence... the owner of the place got an offer that was too good to pass up
23:11 <@slam> no
23:12 <@Corydon76-dig> Eh, some straight guys like being dominated once in a while.  I have no problem with that.
23:12 <@slam> I just dont see the enjoyment of have something rammed up my ass
23:12 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: it generally isn't rammed at first
23:13 <@Corydon76-dig> There are guys who enjoy rough sex, but I'm not one of them
23:13 <@slam> it wouldn't matter if you took a week to get it in
23:13 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: yeah, it would
23:13 <@slam> I still wouldn't like it
23:13 <@Corydon76-dig> You're welcome to think whatever you like, but until you try it, you simply don't know
23:13 <@timoguin> I've never tried cocaine, but I'm sure I wouldn't like it.
23:14 <@slam> or meth
23:14 <@ShadowHntr> or heroin
23:14 <@ShadowHntr> :P
23:14 <@Corydon76-dig> or LSD
23:14 <@timoguin> or marijuana
23:14 <@timoguin> or alcohol
23:15 <@timoguin> pretty sure i wouldn't like it.
23:15 <@slam> Corydon76-dig: maybe you should try a big fat women
23:15 <@Corydon76-dig> slam: I have, actually
23:15 <@timoguin> me too!
23:15 <@Corydon76-dig> I've fucked two women in my life, one of them more than once
23:15 <@slam> maybe she wasn't fat enough
23:16 <@timoguin> like how fat?
23:16 <@Corydon76-dig> both were on the heavy side
23:16 <@slam> how about a black women
23:16 <@timoguin> i love black women.
23:16 <@Corydon76-dig> Nope... I've been with black men, though
23:16 <@slam> well there you go, now we know where the problem is
23:17 <@Corydon76-dig> First guy I ever rimmed was black
23:17 <@timoguin> http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/black-man-super-bikini.jpg
23:17 <@slam> lamar
23:17 <@timoguin> hahaha
23:17 <@Corydon76-dig> What happens in Las Vegas... is probably on youtube somewhere by now...
23:17 <@Corydon76-dig> or youporn
23:18 <@slam> Corydon76-dig: did you go to black ha or defcon?
23:18 <@Corydon76-dig> No, I was at IP4IT
23:18 <@Corydon76-dig> Can't argue with a free trip
23:18 <@slam> it wasn't that good
23:18 <@slam> you didn't miss nothing
23:18 <@Corydon76-dig> Ditto for VON-San Jose
23:19 <@slam> I still think PN has the best party
23:19 <@ShadowHntr> time for bed here
23:19 <@Corydon76-dig> As long as I get laid, I'm good
23:19 <@ShadowHntr> cheers
23:19 -!- ShadowHntr [n=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:20 <@slam> yeah me to
23:20 <@slam> good night
23:20 <@dasunt> The drunker I getr, the more normal I get.
23:20 <@dasunt> It is scary.
23:20 <@dasunt> Like, the alcohol strips away the anxiety disorder and aspergers leanings I have.
23:22 <@Corydon76-dig> Odd, alcohol just strips away the stomach lining for me
23:22 -!- slam [n=slam@DCC.SEND.startkeylogger.000.telephreak.org] has quit ["Changing server"]
23:24 <@dasunt> <drunken honestly>  You are an outspoken bisexual, and thus being one, you probably have a level of self-confidence and good ol' well adjustedeness that is well above the average person. </drunken honesty>
23:24 <@dasunt> Er, not that I'm gay, but my demons scare me enough that I tend to keep them hidden.
23:26 <@Corydon76-dig> Not to mention atheist
23:27 <@dasunt> I know.
23:27 <@dasunt> And yet you don't cry yourself to sleep in a nihilistic sobfest each night.
23:27 <@dasunt> Freak.  :p
23:27 <@Corydon76-dig> The world makes more sense that way
23:28 <@Corydon76-dig> The problem of evil is the biggest contradiction there is and yet some people find a way to deny the question, instead of figiuring out that it really means there's no god.
23:29 <@Corydon76-dig> Or at least, no all-powerful, all-knowing god
23:29 <@Corydon76-dig> and if there isn't one of those, it's not much of a god
23:30 <@Corydon76-dig> At best, you might have some organic being that guided the formation of life millions of years ago and perished shortly thereafter
23:31 <@Corydon76-dig> but even that, I doubt
23:31 <@Corydon76-dig> At some point or another, there has to be life that arose of its own accord, and it might as well be us
23:32 <@dasunt> I wonder what Neal Stephenson is working on.
23:32 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: I'm more of a universalist.
23:32 <@dasunt> In the tradition Xian sense.
23:33 <@Corydon76-dig> i.e. "It doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what you do." ?
23:34 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: As in, avoiding the problem of hell.
23:34 <@Corydon76-dig> Everybody goes to the same place after death... whether that's heaven or hell is up to you
23:35 <@Mirage> i thought it was in the ground personally
23:35 <@Mirage> well, or in an urn on a mantel
23:35 <@Corydon76-dig> If you've forgiven nobody and hate others, then spending eternity with them will be hell to you
23:36 <@Corydon76-dig> but if you love others and forgive their transgressions, then living in the afterlife will be heaven to you
23:37 <@Corydon76-dig> Interesting perspective, isn't it?
23:38 <@Corydon76-dig> The example I always given is Hitler... he is spending eternity with all 12 million people he had put to death in very unpleasant ways... I'm sure that's pure hell for him...
23:39 <@Corydon76-dig> and yet of those same people, those who have learned to forgive him, even as he wronged them, are in heaven.  Same place, different perspective
23:40 <@dasunt> I liked what happeend to Hitler in the book "Waiting fot the Galactic Bus".
23:40 <@dasunt> He ended up in heaven.  :p
23:40 <@dasunt> Raised animals, didn't really give interviews.
23:40 <@dasunt> That book had the concept of both heaven and hell as an afterlife, but you ended up where you thought you should bve.
23:41 <@dasunt> So Hitler, being batshit crazy, ended up in heaven.
23:41 <@Mirage> i just wanna be a poltergeist when i die..bring a little excitment into the world..maybe taunt LB if he outlives me
23:45 <@Corydon76-dig> I also believe in the single biggest conspiracy... so well executed, that it survived its conspirators... the foisting of God on the populace
23:45 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: Meh.  I think most people need god.
23:45 <@Corydon76-dig> ...to keep the people in line with the wishes of the elites
23:46 <@Corydon76-dig> Most people would agree with you... just as most people don't really know what they want... so they have to be told what they want by marketers...
23:46 <@dasunt> I think that religions, for the most part, is an outgrowth of society in general.
23:46 <@dasunt> It is a mechanism for society to maintain its memes.
23:47 <@dasunt> Basically, religion is the anti-cancer mechanism for society.
23:47 <@Corydon76-dig> I'm just not sure that religion has fostered more good than it has caused evil
23:47 <@dasunt> It keeps eh purity of the belief system.
23:48  * dasunt believes that, in a lot of aspects, societies can be considered organisms.
23:48 <@Corydon76-dig> The problem is that religion keeps people in line who would normally not cause trouble... and people who cause trouble generally ignore religion...
23:49 <@Corydon76-dig> (except when it suits their purposes to twist religion into whatever they want from others)
23:50 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: Religion may be less about preventing troublemakers aned more about purging troublemakers.
23:51 <@Corydon76-dig> There are far too many troublemakers who have found religion a convenient device for causing trouble
23:52 <@dasunt> Oh?
23:52 <@dasunt> Or could it be that society uses troublemakers for its own ends/
23:52 <@Mirage> religion started out as a way to educate (to an extent), explain the unexplainable, and attempt to set a framework for civil rules of conduct within the community
23:53 <@Corydon76-dig> FLDS, for example
23:53 <@Corydon76-dig> Basically their entire religion was about raping young girls
23:53 <@Mirage> hmm, how young?
23:54 <@Mirage> er, i mean..
23:54 <@Corydon76-dig> Mirage: the trial of Warren Jeffs wasn't over that long ago
23:54 <@dasunt> I dunno.
23:54 <@Corydon76-dig> 14
23:54 <@sasquatc4> it does surprise me how many and the types of people that wont even accept evolution and still prefer the creationist explanation
23:54 <@dasunt> I think religion prevents a society from changing its rules quickly.
23:54 <@Corydon76-dig> and I'm sure there were younger victims, too
23:54 <@dasunt> Usually, this is beneficial, since it keeps the societal memes pure.
23:55 <@dasunt> But a good religion must allow some mutation to continue to survive.
23:55 <@sasquatc4> was talkin to this chick last weekend at a party, and we went through every topic, and she was an educated engineer, and fairly well to do, and evolution came up quickly and she said she couldnt buy that we came from apes and that it had to be creation
23:55 <@dasunt> Cooping native believe systems and corrupting them, borg-like, into its own beliefs is good.
23:55 <@Corydon76-dig> Societies should be permitted to evolve at a natural rate
23:55 <@sasquatc4> just sorta surprised me
23:55 <@dasunt> Ergo:  Catholicism and saints replacing native gods.
23:56 <@Corydon76-dig> sasquatc4: I know what you mena
23:56 <@Mirage> whether the natives want it or not
23:56 <@Corydon76-dig> dasunt: that was all about control
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23:56 < eryc> i know i came from creation and not apes
23:57 <@Corydon76-dig> The conquistadors used religion as a device to conquer
23:57 < eryc> the creation when my parents rumped lumps
23:58 <@dasunt> Corydon76-dig: Maybe, but less of a control of individuals over teh group, and more about the group controlling itself.
23:58 <@Corydon76-dig> Societies which do not evolve are doomed to die out, in favor of other societies which make progressive adjustments
--- Log closed Fri Sep 28 00:00:02 2007